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Italian tax details posted on web
news.bbc.co.uk — Privacy watchdogs have ordered the Italian authorities to block access to every Italian's personal tax details. This comes after they were published on the internet and made available for almost 24 hours. Without warning, the tax authority posted on its website every tax payer's declared earnings and tax paid.
rossiprojects- 269 diggs
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- jayakamonty, on 05/02/2008, -2/+3The smart thing to do would be to blame it those pesky hackers!
- computerusr, on 05/02/2008, -4/+2u really think u cud whoop me?
- rossiprojects, on 05/02/2008, -6/+4It`s because of this blog www.beppegrillo.com, and the man behind of course. He is the target of the new media and the old politicians simply because he tells the true what`s going on in Italy. Many years ago has been banned to appear on TV.
- Flashman, on 05/02/2008, -2/+5His actual blog is http://www.beppegrillo.it (not .com), it's the 15th most read blog in the world, and chances are you've never heard of it.
- rossiprojects, on 05/02/2008, -0/+1.it redirect to .com first
- KragTheDigger, on 05/02/2008, -0/+1Interesting, since Beppe said this on his blog, when the income data was published: "Let’s send an email to the next Minister of the Economy, Giulio Tremonti asking him to re-establish the rules of civil life and to block the access to sensitive data to anyone".
Maybe, before speaking for him, one should double check, no ?
- Flashman, on 05/02/2008, -2/+5His actual blog is http://www.beppegrillo.it (not .com), it's the 15th most read blog in the world, and chances are you've never heard of it.
- strictnein, on 05/02/2008, -0/+12WTF is this guy talking about American soap operas for? Like they have any relevance on reality. I might as well bring up Italian porn.
- radu79, on 05/02/2008, -1/+4Yes, WTF, the Americans would be totally outraged if their income info was made public to everyone.
I am not aware of any country who does that.
In Italy, with the mob being so strong (especially in the south), I wouldn't want my income to be known by everyone.- ogermino, on 05/02/2008, -0/+0Actually, when I was in college, I worked for the university's IT services. And because the university was a state institution and thanks to freedom of information, my earnings during my stay there were published online. Not that I really cared, and not that it's my entire income tax information, but it does happen.
- makis, on 05/02/2008, -4/+1you are not aware because of you.in scandinavia it's normal to publish citizen's incomes...
- jakobmakob, on 05/02/2008, -4/+2You are not aware because of you?
- makis, on 05/02/2008, -2/+1the exact phrase was "because you didn't dig deep enough"... but when i made the correction, the time was up...
- radu79, on 05/02/2008, -0/+2Ok, fine, it's done in Scandinavia, but that's like 4 countries out of 100+ countries (counting only the big, industrialized countries).
- fxu1989, on 05/02/2008, -0/+2They call themselves "Italian Stallion" .... bunch of zoophiles.
- radu79, on 05/02/2008, -1/+4Yes, WTF, the Americans would be totally outraged if their income info was made public to everyone.
- Croecop, on 05/02/2008, -4/+6Itsa spicy meatballll
- HydrogenY, on 05/02/2008, -1/+1Quit it, Marconi. Get back to inventing the radio.
- Cajole55, on 05/02/2008, -1/+1that's not what italians say you moron.
- HydrogenY, on 05/02/2008, -1/+1Quit it, Marconi. Get back to inventing the radio.
- killbert24, on 05/02/2008, -2/+4Wow that is messed up. Whatever happened to privacy?
- jdaniel284, on 05/02/2008, -4/+3You sound like a terrorist to me. What have you got to hide?
- Wormwoods, on 05/02/2008, -2/+6You sound like a Scientologist to me. Hail Xenu!
- dvsbastard, on 05/02/2008, -0/+4WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES?!
/Fixed
- makis, on 05/02/2008, -3/+1when you live in the country of tax evaders, to me, it seems logical to publish everyone's income
now i know that many of my friends are lying on their declarations
and for big amounts- PhilLesh69, on 05/02/2008, -2/+3Yes, but there are still reasons that you do not disclose everyone's (or, for that matter, anyone's) tax statements.
For example, a competitor might be able to find out where your revenues are coming from, or where you are cutting costs, and could figure out a way to undermine your margins or undercut you to put you out of business.
Another example, what if you found out that your neighbor makes 5 times as much as you? What if 30 people in a neighborhood find out that one neighbor makes 5 times as much as the rest of them, and decide to sue the government for taxing them for their property at the same rate as the "rich guy"? (I know, it is unreasonable, but you know that would happen.)
Or, imagine a burglary ring now targetting people with the highest adjust gross incomes? Or kidnappers? Like all the weak minded people always say, "think of the children!!!!"- tightscrummy, on 05/02/2008, -2/+2***** moron.
- makis, on 05/02/2008, -0/+1kidnappers have thei source of informations... and kidnapping most of all, it's a matter of strategy and opportunity, it's not only the money.it'sd a trade off between how "easy" is and how much you can get.everyone knows who are the rich guys in italy, but no one tried to kidnap them.there must be a reason don't you think?
and if i say i had 20 thousand euro of income this year, no one can figure out where my revenues come from.but if you are a restaurant owner and you declare 7 thousand euros, everyone knows you are lying...
7 thousand euros is the average in italy for dealers... there must be something wrong
- PhilLesh69, on 05/02/2008, -1/+1And besides, Makis, how do you know that what you think to be "lying on their returns" isn't really just legitimate deductions and exclusions?
Do you think your jealousy of your friends' income should drive up the cost of auditing people unnecessarily because all sorts of jealous people would be turning in their friends and neighbors? Maybe they should just audit everybody every year. Make them pull out all their financial records for the last 10 years, each and every year.- makis, on 05/02/2008, -0/+1the best thing you can have in italy regarding taxes, is an horrible thing, informers... if you think that this is country in which you obtain a tax refund YEARS later, you can understand how it's a matter of "broken system".if we want to build up a new era in italy, we have to STOP tax evasion.than we can think about HOW and HOW MUCH tax should be payed by everyone.in italy the majority think that only the stupid pay taxes..and then they go to ER for free only because they have a headache...you understand the situation now?
- PhilLesh69, on 05/02/2008, -2/+3Yes, but there are still reasons that you do not disclose everyone's (or, for that matter, anyone's) tax statements.
- jdaniel284, on 05/02/2008, -4/+3You sound like a terrorist to me. What have you got to hide?
- megaton, on 05/02/2008, -1/+9Easier than waiting for some thieves to steal a laptop containing all that data...
- dojonz, on 05/02/2008, -2/+4Aren't Italians the #1 tax evaders?, and I'm saying that seriously.
- serif69, on 05/02/2008, -1/+8Most Italian people are always on scooters, going, "Ciao!"
- bobcrotch, on 05/02/2008, -0/+3I think that went over everyone's head haha.
- ssmith2k3, on 05/02/2008, -0/+4that may be true but they also have ridiculous taxes without getting any benefits in return so can't really blame them
- makis, on 05/02/2008, -3/+3if you don't want to pay taxes because you don't have anything in return, it's your decision.
if you don't want to pay taxes because you can earn a lot more money (and you want to be protected by the privacy's laws), that's stealing.
italian are in the second category, and i repeat myself, i'm an italian "full tax payer"- matador3, on 05/02/2008, -0/+5Um no, taxes are stealing.
- PhilLesh69, on 05/02/2008, -0/+3It is funny that you are willing to grant people who are not paying taxes in protest that right, but then concluding that anyone in Italy who is paying less taxes than they should (or then you think they should) are just simply greedy.
People who don't want their tax information disclosed to the public can be doing it for numerous valid reasons, as well as for nefarious reasons.
There are people that just don't want family members knowing how well off they are. There are business people who don't want to disclose private information to competitors who might use that information against them in business.
Sure, there will always be people who want to game the system, but that is never a reason to force everyone to give up privacy or rights.
I know there are people who use cars to transport illegal drugs. That will never make me feel comfortable with the police pulling every car over in order to find the drug smugglers. Or banning cars outright to stop the transport of illegal drugs.
There are people who kill using kitchen butcher knifes. Should we round up every butcher knife?
There are people who send illegal items through the mail. Should they be reading every letter and opening every parcel sent through the mail?- makis, on 05/02/2008, -1/+1only 2 things.first.everyone should pay taxes, but if you think they are too high for what you have in return, you SAY it,you try to CHANGE the system,you don't hide and try not to pay.if you hide behind privacy, you are basic stealing.second.i don't want EVERYTHING published, but i'm for publication of italin's tax declarations.because every year in my country 160 bilion euros are missing from the system.it means, less public health sysstem, less public schools, and more people who don't pay for public services that access to public services.they drive mercedes and use the same road i use but they are NOT paying for it.it's time that everyone in italy knows who's stealing and who's not.i want a better country, not one where the only system to have a better future is be a part of the system, that basically means mafia...
- makis, on 05/02/2008, -3/+3if you don't want to pay taxes because you don't have anything in return, it's your decision.
- jtrost, on 05/02/2008, -0/+7The Italian tax system is really interesting, actually. All businesses "negotiate" their taxes with the government instead of paying what they declare.
- makis, on 05/02/2008, -0/+6yes, they are!
i know because i'm italian
i had access to romans tax declarations, and i've discovered that may people i personally know, who owns restaurants and tens of apartments in the city center, declare 5 times less than me.and i don't own anything, except my car and an half decent paid job. - PhilLesh69, on 05/02/2008, -1/+1Who cares if the italians are the #1 tax evaders? It's not like they are paying taxes to the US treasury. It is Italy's business.
- dojonz, on 05/02/2008, -0/+1I was posting as a general observation. The world does not revolve around the United States you know...
- makis, on 05/02/2008, -0/+1we are talking of italian taxes.who cares about US???
- serif69, on 05/02/2008, -1/+8Most Italian people are always on scooters, going, "Ciao!"
- dvsbastard, on 05/02/2008, -0/+5I would have preferred to know about this BEFORE they they blocked access to this information...
- makis, on 05/02/2008, -0/+4you can find the informations on p2p networks
just look for "redditi" on emule...
- makis, on 05/02/2008, -0/+4you can find the informations on p2p networks
- louiebaur, on 05/02/2008, -0/+2Whoops
- mcduck, on 05/02/2008, -0/+4I'n norway, this kind of information is public, and you can search it all year.
- KragTheDigger, on 05/02/2008, -0/+2Amazing, it took almost 24 hrs for this to gain any visibility on this side of the pond...
And don't think you know anything about Italian taxes, unless you talked to someone who actually pays them first, please. For instance, we get tax returns in about 10 years (I paid taxes the first time at 18, and got my return for that at age 28... rather then the few weeks or maybe months US people get theirs)... - jab9990, on 05/02/2008, -1/+3Excuse my French, but that's one big Italian f--k-up.
- makis, on 05/02/2008, -1/+2i don't see any reason to hide my tax declaration!!
what's wrong in publishing them?
i don't know...
i paid my taxes and there is exactly the right amount i gained that year...
i'm italian, my tax declaration is public already on p2p networks since i'm from Rome, probably the most interesting city to look for with Milan...- strictnein, on 05/03/2008, -0/+1If you don't see a reason to hide your tax info, then go and publish it everywhere.
This may surprise you, but some people enjoy a modicum or privacy. How about we each get to decide what information about ourselves gets made public? Crazy, I know.
- strictnein, on 05/03/2008, -0/+1If you don't see a reason to hide your tax info, then go and publish it everywhere.
- makis, on 05/02/2008, -1/+2i don't see any reason to hide my tax declaration!!
- ptFoe, on 05/02/2008, -1/+3isn't there IT in ITalian?
- chrissku, on 05/02/2008, -0/+2"I make more than Antonio and Mario! I knew it!"
- Owwmykneecap, on 05/02/2008, -0/+5everyone condemed it, yet everyone checked out what their friends neighbours and enemies(if the two are not the same!) were getting.
Its funny how people work- makis, on 05/02/2008, -3/+2i did check, and i didn't comdemn
i'm really pro this kind of openness and clearness- sgtpppr, on 05/02/2008, -0/+2Why? I don't see how it's any of your business what other people make. It's called 'privacy'.
- makis, on 05/02/2008, -0/+1for one simple reason.it's called free market.if the medium of the income of italian's dealers is about 7 thousand euros, and they drive merdedes, they have access to bigger resources than honest people that are paying taxes.that's why our economy is so depressed.because using this systems you can't compete in globalized markets.
- strictnein, on 05/03/2008, -0/+1Here's a trick:
Require every employer to report their employees salaries to the government. Then audit and fine the employers who don't do it properly. So, we now have accountability and more accurate numbers.
- strictnein, on 05/03/2008, -0/+1Here's a trick:
- makis, on 05/02/2008, -3/+2i did check, and i didn't comdemn
- 22justin, on 05/02/2008, -0/+1anyone have a link to the data, Id like to check out some of my friends declared earnings??
- kincaidj, on 05/02/2008, -3/+1Ooh! Is the site still up? I want to see how much my girlfriends dad makes to see if she's worth marrying..
(Just kidding babe!, she does read this site....) - beartrack, on 05/02/2008, -0/+1Sounds like a great way to start a class war.
- s2ao, on 05/02/2008, -0/+3Dugg up exact same story yesterday, but it stayed at 3 diggs for hours. Goddammit, Digg is so cliquey...
- buddamus, on 05/02/2008, -0/+1Would be cool to see the Popes details on it
- thecoolestguy, on 05/02/2008, -1/+1The income tax needs to be abolished, it's a crime against the spirit of human freedom! Ron Paul 2008!
- fsweep, on 05/02/2008, -0/+0Ho hum. It has been like this in Norway for years. Even our assets are posted. It sucks. Deal with it.
- PhilLesh69, on 05/03/2008, -0/+2That's what we told the people living in the soviet union -- "You've been oppressed by a communist regime, but it's been like that for years. It sucks. Deal with it."
- strictnein, on 05/03/2008, -0/+1The Earth is warming, it's been doing so for years. Just deal with it.
See what a worthless argument style that is?
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