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It Is Okay To Be "Islamophobic"
theinformationparadox.com — Quite often we hear the term "Islamophobic" cast in a negative light, supported by the rationale that we should not judge a person or group of persons based on their religion, in this case Islam.
bgholt1970- 56 diggs
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- bringmeupmusic, on 05/17/2008, -9/+7I'm confused. Are you saying it is okay to be afraid of someone you personally know nothing about? Because as far as I know, ignorance is not bliss, it's lazy people who would rather play follow the leader than learn for themselves.
- sanman, on 05/17/2008, -1/+3No, the fact is that allegations of racism can easily be used to deflect legitimate criticism of negative, regressive, primitivist behavior, by labeling such criticism as a pathology (aka. "islamophobia")
It's perfectly legitimate to criticize a school of thought, or religion.
Trying to claim exemption from critical scrutiny by selectively casting oneself as an ethnic group, is just a subterfuge or canard. There's no credibility in that.
- sanman, on 05/17/2008, -1/+3No, the fact is that allegations of racism can easily be used to deflect legitimate criticism of negative, regressive, primitivist behavior, by labeling such criticism as a pathology (aka. "islamophobia")
- julielynn1009, on 05/17/2008, -3/+12In today's culture, the word "Islamaphobic" is used more to indicate hatred rather than ignorance toward a group. I may be wrong, but I think the author is saying that yes, it is okay to hate, detest and want to eradicate any thought system that practices violence at the level Islam does. We are well aware of the fact that Islam is called "The religion of Peace", however, their definition of peace does not include recognition of basic human rights. They place more importance on their religion and it's practices than they do on individual lives, especially those of women. Yeah, I hate that.
- Ridgeliner7, on 05/17/2008, -0/+6Agree on this point.
One does need to remember to distinguish between those people who do not interpret Islam the way some do....as many Catholics disagree with Church teachings on a variety of issues. However, I see the article as talking specifically about the radicals, and I do hate them.......
- Ridgeliner7, on 05/17/2008, -0/+6Agree on this point.
- GrandmaSheila, on 05/17/2008, -6/+9Patriarchy is the religion of the world, only the labels change. Never doubt that the christiban would be doing the same things to women if they thought they could get away with it, and they often do, here in good ol xtian USA. (see the infamous Texas cult, just as an example). Men rape, beat, torture, and murder their wives, ex-wives, girlfriends, ex-girlfriends, children, with impunity everywhere. We need to evolve beyond the need for big sky daddy to justify and enable our evil deeds, but no chance of that happening before the sun goes nova.
So I have to say I'm "religiophobic".- bgholt1970, on 05/17/2008, -1/+3Very, very, very good point Grandma. Unfortunately, as of late the stories of these have been disgusting me to no end so islam is bearing the brunt of it.
Through the centuries other religions have had their turn at these despicable acts but because of social pressure to obey the laws they have learned to restrain themselves. The problem in the Muslim countries is that this practice is still "okay".
- bgholt1970, on 05/17/2008, -1/+3Very, very, very good point Grandma. Unfortunately, as of late the stories of these have been disgusting me to no end so islam is bearing the brunt of it.
- GrandmaSheila, on 05/17/2008, -7/+5I totally agree, bg, they are utter barbarians, with their utter barbarity encoded into Sharia Law. The pathetic screams of their innocent victims fall on the deaf ears of the male-run world. I don't hear dumbyah, or his pious xtian enablers, complaining about it, or in any way attempting to stop it, even though we're busily spreading "democracy" and "equality" at gunpoint, every day. Could it be that they really don't have a problem with fathers killing their daughters, when victimized by rape?
All I'm saying is, while some of the older religions have gotten more subtle in their assaults on women, they are no less vicious, or brutal, and this needs to be recognized. Hence the never-ending attack on reproductive and abortion rights, a naked power grab, whose goal is to reduce women to the baby machines, wage slaves, and chattels that xtianity defines them to be, cloaked in a nauseus veil of hypocrital "love" for the "poor baby", and "gawd says life begins at conception", whatever the economic or personal reality of the women involved.
While xtianity doesn't practice female genital mutilation anymore, it's only because they're content to mutilate and castrate the women's minds instead. To me, this is the most malevolent thing one can do to another human being: rape them of self-realization, from birth.- bgholt1970, on 05/17/2008, -1/+2And I agree with you on all points regarding the other mind-stifling religions, they are/have been just as brutal, manipulative and twisted.
By writing this about Islam, the others are not getting a free pass, I have discussed many of them at great length in other posts. Yesterday, the build up of 'honor killing' stories was disgusting and I wanted to make my case. People are afraid many times to express their 'hatred' for certain things. Well, I think it is okay to hate Islam, Christianity, Scientology, Judaism and any other oppressive control mechanism given a 'free pass' in society because a god is involved. - yellowcakewalk, on 05/17/2008, -6/+3Don't forget that male genital mutilation is considered standard operating procedure in many or most of the hospitals in the USA. All of my male siblings and cousins were submitted to the barbaric procedure of circumcision within hours of their births. And this in the capital of the "free world".
- electrosheep, on 06/14/2008, -0/+2"barbaric procedure"? you need to start knowing what you're talking about before you start vomitting such rubbish. the body is not physically affected in any detrimental way by undergoing a circumcision, save a few hours of pain. it's not mutilation.
- bgholt1970, on 05/17/2008, -1/+2And I agree with you on all points regarding the other mind-stifling religions, they are/have been just as brutal, manipulative and twisted.
- Surferess, on 05/17/2008, -5/+3Tolerance of all people is the best way.
- bgholt1970, on 05/17/2008, -2/+6Until your murdered because you have somehow shown that you are an "Infidel".
- razorsedge555, on 05/17/2008, -6/+7Islamophobia literally means fear of Islam.
It's unfortunate that Islam is put in such a negative light now. Back in the Dark Ages, Muslim princes saved the classic texts of Greece and Rome. They encouraged tolerance within their communites towards Christians and Jews; in many instances they carried on trade and plied the Silk Road. They brought information about the Asian cultures as well as exotic goods. The Islamic world was host to worldwide travellers, physicians and merchants. Islam filled a vacuum in the Mediterranean world that was left by the collapse of governmental authority in North Africa, Spain, Sicily and Italy. Later it would spread to the borders of Budapest and Vienna, swallowing the dying Byzantine capital in 1453.
We must remember that like Christianity, modern Islam has been twisted and reinterpreted to the point where it is only a shadow of its former self. Witness the intolerance within the Muslim world itself towards other Muslims. Like Christians, leaders adopted the Muslim faith when it suited them. Politics and religion become intertwined, which certainly was not always the intention when the texts were originally written. The Reformation was fueled by princes wishing to take authority away from Rome and other Catholic rulers.
Also remember that many of the madrasas were funded by the CIA during the Cold War. The students became mujahdeen fighters who carried on guerrilla campaigns against the Soviet Union. They worked too well; ultimately they came to despise the West as well. Mujahdeen fighters filtered into the Middle East, Yugoslavia and former Soviet republics. The new fundamentalism that is cropping up is also a threat to many Muslim states that have grown rich trading with the West. Some of these states refuse to share the wealth made from oil with their less fortunate populace.- bgholt1970, on 05/17/2008, -1/+2I know the literal interpretation of "phobia", but if you look up the definition of 'Islamophobia' it means a prejudice towards Islam in a colloquial use.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamophobia
On your other points, I understand and there are many varying histories of all world religions but as it stands today, Islam is sadistically brutal and wholly intolerant.- electrosheep, on 05/17/2008, -1/+2Have you fully studied Islam? Have you read the Qur'an, the Hadiths, etc? You should read it's teachings, study it, fully comprehend it, before passing judgement, opposed to just forming accusations based on what you see in the newspapers, TV, media, whatever. It's these fanatics - not to mention mixed with stupidity - that are giving Islam a bad name. The media seem to highlight this; there are Muslims out there that are speaking up, (I've seen them!) but the media chooses to ignore them, or give them very little coverage. There are many factors playing in this portrayal of Islam, including the government. They want you to think so negatively of this religion, so that it can assist them in their hidden agenda! (The Iraq war anyone?..)
But, trust me, I AM a Muslim, I KNOW Islam is not 'sadistically brutal and wholly intolerant' as you have so painted it.
- electrosheep, on 05/17/2008, -1/+2Have you fully studied Islam? Have you read the Qur'an, the Hadiths, etc? You should read it's teachings, study it, fully comprehend it, before passing judgement, opposed to just forming accusations based on what you see in the newspapers, TV, media, whatever. It's these fanatics - not to mention mixed with stupidity - that are giving Islam a bad name. The media seem to highlight this; there are Muslims out there that are speaking up, (I've seen them!) but the media chooses to ignore them, or give them very little coverage. There are many factors playing in this portrayal of Islam, including the government. They want you to think so negatively of this religion, so that it can assist them in their hidden agenda! (The Iraq war anyone?..)
- bgholt1970, on 05/17/2008, -1/+2I know the literal interpretation of "phobia", but if you look up the definition of 'Islamophobia' it means a prejudice towards Islam in a colloquial use.
- electrosheep, on 05/17/2008, -3/+8No, trust me, honour killings are nothing but a cultural thing! I'm a Muslim, I know this! I have a friend, he is the most religious person you could ever be, and he is AGAINST HONOUR KILLINGS! He is very passionate about it as well. Anything that a Muslim says to justify honour killings INCLUDING Islam is NOTHING BUT LIES/STUPIDITY/*****!! Honour killings are not mentioned in the Qur'an, not even the freakin' Hadiths. To me, it's just a religious mindset that somehow twisted into something fanatical. I am deeply ashamed/embarassed/angered (you name it) by what my fellow Muslims are doing, trust me, nothing stirs me up more. What these people are doing is a HUUUUGE SIN! My people believe in Judgement Day, I believe that whoever takes part in this, have a lot to answer for to God.
- blackjack75, on 05/17/2008, -0/+4Actually a lot of the things that people attribute to Islam predate it by centuries in the culture on which Islam got strapped onto later. Islam was created only about 1400 years ago.
This includes for example:
- The veil: it's been there long before Islam and still exists in places that Islam hasn't reached. The veil is just about being prude with your body. This has been around for centuries everywhere. Some islamic preachers (quite a lot actually) have made it into a purely islamic matter. It's not. It's basically the same thing as westerners not feeling ok with bare breasts in the city, while it's perfectly accepted in other cultures.
- Polygamy: 4 wives was a _limitation_ to an existing practice as opposed to the unlimited number of wives a rich man could have. No poor guy can ever 'afford' a second wife anyway. There just aren't enough women. It's only a thing for the powerful. In this sense Islam tried to limit the powers of the upper class, which is a good thing. It probably took some balls to even mention this in front of the ruling kings at that time.
Disclaimer: I don't believe in supernatural and superstitions. This includes Islam and the rest.
- blackjack75, on 05/17/2008, -0/+4Actually a lot of the things that people attribute to Islam predate it by centuries in the culture on which Islam got strapped onto later. Islam was created only about 1400 years ago.
- GrandmaSheila, on 05/17/2008, -2/+4Hi Electro, please know I don't attack anyone because of their religion, just how religion is used by some of them to enable horrible crimes. I mean no offense to any of the millions of good Moslems, or Christians either, who would never do anything to harm anyone.
It's the fanatics' behavior that unfortunately tars them all with the same brush.- bgholt1970, on 05/17/2008, -2/+3Grandma, you are correct.
All I have been witness to from the Muslim religion is brutality and oppression, granted I have not lived in an Islamic country (nor would I want to), and if the moderate/liberal adherents of this religion wish to ever improve it's image they will have to speak up loud and clear condemning such crimes and pushing for prosecution when possible.
When these stories of killing and brutality are compiled with other accounts of oppression and hatred, Islam's redeeming qualities are overshadowed.
- bgholt1970, on 05/17/2008, -2/+3Grandma, you are correct.
- yellowcakewalk, on 05/17/2008, -8/+5How is Muslim superstition so much worse than the superstitions of the other blood-soaked Abrahamic religions?
- Tangaroa, on 05/17/2008, -1/+2Because their superstitious idiots are in the bloodsoaking phase right now, causing murder and mayhem from London to Bali, while the bloodsoaking of other superstitious idiots is in history or the future. It's a mix of human nature and a sociological cycle.
Blaming Islam, as way too many people here do, shows a lack of historical knowledge on the part of those doing so. Islam and the West got along relatively fine for the few hundred years of the Enlightenment until the loss of the Ottoman caliphate. The problem is right-wing fanaticism infesting the priesthood and telling people to wage war in the name of Islam.
- Tangaroa, on 05/17/2008, -1/+2Because their superstitious idiots are in the bloodsoaking phase right now, causing murder and mayhem from London to Bali, while the bloodsoaking of other superstitious idiots is in history or the future. It's a mix of human nature and a sociological cycle.
- Stevanoski, on 05/17/2008, -2/+5The term is a misnomer to begin with, I am sure when Muslims cheer in the streets over the murder of 3000 men, women and children they are just practicing The Religion of Peace in the truest sense.
The main reason Progressives love Islam is because they hate Israel. They can "practice" being noble in loving those who want to kill their family all the while they secretly support the destruction of Israel without having to say it out loud.- blackjack75, on 05/17/2008, -1/+3I assume you're referring to Palestinians dancing after 9.11. Yes they were dancing because someone had managed to hit the country they estimate responsible for their situation.
As stupid and insensitive as this was, this has nothing to do with Islam. No more than the conflict in Northern Ireland is about Catholicism. It's about a group of people having power and the other one wanting it.
I guess I am one of the progressives you're referring to (although by your standards I guess I would be more like a banner-bashing-Stalin-lover or something).
So just in case:
- I don't hate Israel per se. I just want them to use the power they hold in a more reasonable manner (I include the enormous power added by the inconditional support from he U.S.). They have a working democracy and complete military dominations over the other camp. They should be the ones taking the steps to build a two-state solution.
- I don't love Islam. I dislike all religions equally. If you're going to bitch about Islam being retarded I can only recommend reading the old testament. It's worth its weight in peanuts.
As of today fear of Islam is used to justify basically anything. It's the new scarecrow of our times.
I am not afraid of Islam because we managed to get rid of the total domination of Christianism (I am talking about Europe here). So we won't have any problem getting rid of Islam either. It's just a matter of getting more kids to reach the university.- Stevanoski, on 05/17/2008, -0/+3First, thank you for your thoughtful reply. I believe Islam may be a tad harder to "get rid of" than you believe. After all, Christ commands you love your enemy. The Koran believes you give them a chance to convert, then beheading is acceptable if the infidels do not.
Again, thank you for explaining your feelings on Israel. Many on the Left have commented to me that yes, they hate Israel.
- Stevanoski, on 05/17/2008, -0/+3First, thank you for your thoughtful reply. I believe Islam may be a tad harder to "get rid of" than you believe. After all, Christ commands you love your enemy. The Koran believes you give them a chance to convert, then beheading is acceptable if the infidels do not.
- blackjack75, on 05/17/2008, -1/+3I assume you're referring to Palestinians dancing after 9.11. Yes they were dancing because someone had managed to hit the country they estimate responsible for their situation.
- giantdouche, on 05/18/2008, -0/+3Weren't these the same people saying, "DON'T BE AFRAID, CAUSE THEN THE TERRORIST WIN!!!!!!111111!!~!"? Quick lesson: don't allow others to tell you how to be.
- madwaxer, on 05/19/2008, -0/+1islam, judaism-christianity all treat women the same. what differs is the sections of the faiths which chose to interpret their scriptures to mean what they desire.
This is another reason why everyone needs a better understanding of history of the religious faiths and how their doctrines have evolved in the last 6k years. you'd be stunned to find out that barely 100 years ago most catholic churches had women cover their heads during service to stop the distraction of men/boys. sounds like a lot of other culture who use headscarfs for many reasons other than religion.
What is wrong here i the lack of cross cultural contact and dialogue to reach a deep understanding of strangers. you don't have to accept what you learn from it but you do need to learn some of the facts about the person's culture. and keep in mind no two people have identical opinions on the same subject so try to find more than a single person to talk to.
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