What is Digg?39 Comments
- sbrown123, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14Israel needs to find a solution to Hezbollah, but I don't think they will win the hearts and minds of the Lebanese people by cluster bombing civilians. Maybe war is not always the path to peace?
- Moonpig, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7I hope they're going to go round and pick up all those cluster bombs before they go.
They could be dangerous next time they decide to invade. - sbrown123, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Cluster bombs should be banned by the Geneva Convention. They are just too messy. According to a report I recently read close to 30% of the bomblets don't detonate when they should. These unexploded bomblets have a bad habit of killing or maiming people for years afterwards.
- sbrown123, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7@marvin69
It's highly unlikely that the Hezbollah would harm their own children for PR. They hate the Israeli government, not their own people. - Moonpig, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8What went wrong in Iraq is they were invaded, under false pretenses, by an administration with no clear long-term gameplan or knowledge of the culture.
- darkzealot89, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7Somebody is doing it wrong... If i was a betting man Isreal would be my vote...
- sbrown123, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6@marvin69
Hezbollah employs anti-tank mines which rarely kill people on foot (they are designed to go off for bigger things). Hezbollah also places these mines far from inhabited areas and along the border with Israel. - twinklyJesus, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7@sbrown123:
What went wrong in IRaq is, a third army of external agitators moved in and began attacking both the US military and any civilians who had begun to try to put their lives back together and move on. - kingkilr, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Finnaly now everyone can stfu.
- borninda818, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7When Israel invades a country, it bombs the ***** out of it and leaves. The US, on the other hand, feels the need to rebuild a country after its ***** has been bombed.
- robotexplorer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@marvin69
Nice link with non biased information.
That's like linking to freepalestine.com and expecting to see something non-biased against Israel. - sbrown123, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@bgoodknight
Israel only has itself to blame for the defeat. Wiping out areas is known as genocide which anyone with an ounce of humanity is strongly against. You have to be a deeply disturbed person to think that is a good idea. - kingygk, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Hezbollah still needs to release the Israeli soldiers or things will escalate again.
- labmouse42, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@sbrown123 and marvin69
Hezbollah were trained and supplied by Iran, not Lebanon. It's entirely possible that many of them would be Iranians. This would mean that these 'kids' are not their 'kids' but the children of another nation. - gbyte, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"So Hezbollah placed mines, I wonder why?
To try and impede an invading army perhaps?
Who would that be?"
@Moonpig
Ahh right. So Hezbollah putting anti personal mines is ok... But Israel is evil for leaving unexploded ammunition laying around is wrong?
Aren't we just a little bit biased here?
Note: I'm an Israeli and I don't support the cluster bombing. We had other (better) choices. Israel is in no way responsible for helping Lebanon. Just like I don't expect Hezbollah/Lebanon/Syria/Iran to help Israel.. - labmouse42, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@sbrown123
I think what twinklyJesus is referring to is the large number of foreign terrorists that have been striking against the US forces in Iraq. One digger who just got back from Iraq stated that a large number of insurgents are members of the Syrian military.
These terrorists are striking against both the Iraqi people and the US, knowing that any instability is bad for the US. - sbrown123, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3That was true in Germany, but we really have to wonder what the hell happened with Iraq.
- ruprecht, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Yeah like it's going to end now. How naive can you be?
- ruprecht, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2What rubbish. They know exactly what they're fighting about. Hizbollah attacks Israel because a) they believe Israel is still occupying Lebanese territory and b) the more radical Hizbollah members believe Israel and Israelis have no right to exist. Israel attacks Hizbollah because Hizbollah attacks them.
Trying to reduce it to "silly middle-eastern wackos" is naive and condescending. - twinklyJesus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Thank you, labmouse, that was it exactly. If we had to deal in Germany, with third-party agitators, we never would've gotten Europe rebuilt after WWII. THis truly is the difference.
- labmouse42, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@marvin69
"This was the same year our Embassy was bombed and Lebanese new leaders promised to destroy Israel."
Does that justify the death of ~20,000 people? Those are crimes, for sure, but the response was out of proportion. That would be akin to giving 20 years in jail for shoplifting.
"They also occupied the territory to prevent being invaded like they were before."
In march of 1985 in Southern Lebanon, Israeli was occupying the country, in violation of a UN security council to leave. This began a new operation, called The Iron Fist Operations who were targeting the "Terrorist Villagers" It reached new debts of brutality and calculated murder. It included murder, kidnapping villagers and bringing them to Israel. There was no pretense of self defense.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4054523048548733881&q=chomsky
"20,000 I'll need prof of that."
"It is estimated that around 17,825 Arabs were killed during the war. There are different estimates of the proportion of civilians killed. Beirut newspaper An Nahar estimated that 5,515 people, military and civilian, were killed in the Beirut area only during the conflict, and 9,797 military personnel (PLO, Syrian, and others) and 2,513 civilians were killed outside of the Beirut area.[7] Approximately 675 Israeli soldiers were killed."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_Invasion_of_Lebanon
In summary, Israel has been using military might for roughly 40 years. They have a right to defend themselves, for sure, and they have every right to try and stop the aggressors -- however the reactions they have are extreme. - Moonpig, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4So Hezbollah placed mines, I wonder why?
To try and impede an invading army perhaps?
Who would that be? - sbrown123, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2@twinklyJesus
In Iraq the U.S. immediately disbanded the police and military. Anarchy broke out. Fixing the damaged infrastructure was awarded to foreign contractors who rarely did the job (and don't get me started on what K&B did to our own soldiers). Rebuilding a new police and military force has still not been completed. Many of the insurgents are jobless ex-soldiers and police officers.
After the war in Germany the Germans took control of policing their people and fixing their infrastructure (with the assistance of foreign money). General Patton was ridiculed for using ex-Nazi personnel in the process, but he set the cornerstone for what would later be known as the Marshall Plan. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3If Russia wasn't so f'ed up after WWII Germany would look like Iraq looks now.
- twinklyJesus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1So, if we agree in the Geneva Convention that cluster bombs are off-limits, then no nation honoring the Geneva Convention would be able to use them, correct?
Does Hezballah, Hamas, Al Qaida, or any other terrorist organization abide by the Geneva Convention? Wouldn't that mean that they would be able to still use these types of weapons on Israel or us? Would they think twice about it? Do they ever?
Does the Geneva Convention stop them from kidnapping and beheading prisoners, many of whom aren't even combatants?
I'll save you some head scratching...the answers are no, no, no, no and NO. - Mome, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3Many arab women look fantastic. If I were a soldier in a room alone with one, I might be tempted to rape and murder her.
- nalf38, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Hezbollah / Israel is a classic Hatfield/McCoy situation. They don't even know what they're fighting about anymore; they're just fighting.
They're both going down the wrong path. It's like the US and the old USSR stockpiling nuclear weapons for an event that would never come. It took one side (USSR) to call the whole thing off unilaterally without any demand for concessions from the other side for the arms race to end.
On the other hand, if this 30 day war were taken as an isolated incident----- imagine if Canadian mounties kidnapped a handful of US border patrol agents and then started lobbing bombs across the border into Montana, wouldn't you be kind of pissed? All of a sudden, bombing British Columbia doesn't sound too bad, does it? - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1This was the same year our Embassy was bombed and Lebanese new leaders promised to destroy Israel. They also occupied the territory to prevent being invaded like they were before.
20,000 I'll need prof of that. - Moonpig, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1@gbyte
If Hezbollah laid mines on it's own land in order to stop it's enemies advance that is quite different than laying cluster bombs on enemy territory to kill more civilians. If Israel had laid the cluster bombs on its own side of the border I wouldn't have such a problem with it. - labmouse42, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1@marvin69
"I guess Israel will always lose in the PR battle."
Israel has always had problems with their PR.
In 1982 Israel invaded Lebanon and killed 20,000 people. The goal of this invasion was "To install a friendly regime in Lebanon, and oust the PLO, which would help to persuade Palistantions accept an Israeli rule in west bank and gaza" (New York Times)
In march of 1985, in southern Lebanon, Israeli was still occupying the country, in violation of a UN security council to leave. Israel was enacting a policy called "The Iron Fist Operations" designed to target "Terrorist Villagers" It reached new levels of brutality and calculated murder. (Chomsky)
@sbrown123
The Hezbollah are no better than Israel. Targeting civillian population centers is something that can never be condoned. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1@sbrown
Hezbollah supports and commits terror attacks around the world. They also love to brain wash their kids to strap bombs to themselves and blow up cafes or buses.
"Until then, no group involved in terrorism had conducted such a suicide operation in Israel. Members of the JRA became instructors in martial art and Kamikaze operations at several Hezbollah training camps bringing the suicide techniques to the Middle East." Wikipedia
Sounds like they almost invented the modern suicide bomber.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_bombings - nocountries, on 10/12/2007, -13/+12let them be fitted with tails to drag between their legs.
- ruprecht, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1And of course, no mention of the fact that Israel regularly gets the ***** bombed out of it too. Some people are so one-eyed it's pathetic.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1mod down
- SIDSI, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2Wow it only took 24 years.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2@sbrown123
Where did you get your info on which mines Hezbollah uses? I remember reading that many on the Israel soldiers killed in Lebanon were killed by anti personal mines.
http://www.jewishsf.com/content/2-0-/module/displaystory/story_id/6934/edition_id/131/format/html/displaystory.html - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -7/+3I think Hezbollah will use these bomblets for their own purposes. Win a PR war by dragging kids out that have been hurt/killed and yet nothing will be said about the kids stepping on their own mines.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -11/+6And Hezbollah won their hearts with over with the million mines they laid. I hear kids love them.
I guess Israel will always lose in the PR battle. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -12/+4What a shame, the media defeated Israel and handed the terrorists a win.
Next time, I don't think the Jews are going to be so kind, next time I hope they wipe the entire area out and stop playing around.
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