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Iraqi Torture Chamber Found

news.yahoo.com — We live in a disturbing world.

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  • BohicaTwentyTwo, on 12/21/2007, -7/+69FTA: Scrawled in white paint above a bed in the torture area was a Quranic phrase in Arabic normally used to welcome a guest. But the context suggested only sadistic mockery: "Come in, you are safe."

    Gee, what does that remind me of?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbeit_macht_frei
    • Napoleone, on 12/21/2007, -29/+10"America doesn't torture"?
      • norman619, on 12/21/2007, -4/+2I guess you missed the swords they found. What do you think they were used for?
    • kazamx, on 12/21/2007, -38/+50Why is this a story? America has made it clear that torture is OK now.
      • norman619, on 12/21/2007, -22/+29There are limits as with anything else. Can you prove the US has done anything as bad as what is hinted at in that room? Unless you are a liar the answer is no.
        • ElAssoWipo, on 12/21/2007, -14/+24http://iraq-kill-maim.org/kid-kill/kid-kill-03.htm
          http://www.ccmep.org/usbombingwatch/032203iraq-2.j ...
          http://www.thewe.cc/thewei/_/images10/iraq_images/ ...
          http://www.thewe.cc/thewei/&/images3/2004_war_phot ...
          http://msnbcmedia1.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Phot ...
          http://english.people.com.cn/200509/02/images/0901 ...
          http://www.thewe.cc/thewei/&/images3/2004_war_phot ...
          http://schema-root.org/region/middle_east/iraq/cit ...

          You kill people.
          • norman619, on 12/21/2007, -19/+7Here's a bit of news for you. All of human history is written in human blood. Go back and read the unsanitized history of the human race.
          • ElAssoWipo, on 12/21/2007, -13/+12http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to ...

            You're still a ***** murderer.
          • crichton101, on 12/21/2007, -7/+13@norman

            So first you attack him because he didn't offer proof, then you attack him and his proof and tell him "all of human history is written in human blood". What's next, you going to toss in a "they did it first" or "they do it too" comment so that you can sound less like a neocon idiot and more like a 4 year old?

            With your last comment all your argument amounts to now is it's okay when we do it, but not okay for anyone else to do it. when seeing that they torture people should be a shining example for us to not do it. Because we are NOT the barbarians that murder innocent people. And until we rise up and meet those standards, and actively try to not sink to the level of our enemy, then we are no better then they are.
          • norman619, on 12/21/2007, -10/+9@crichton:

            No he's not comparing apples to apples. THAT is the problem. What is done on the battle field is not the same as what is done to prisoners. We were talking about the torture that was done in that room. He did not prove me wrong at all. Fact still is that there isn't any proof the US has done anything nearly as bad to it's prisoners as what was done in that room. If you know of some proof please share with the class. If you don't then I politely ask that you pay attention the actual discussion and stay on point instead of trying to ignore the original topic.
          • norman619, on 12/21/2007, -9/+8Oh almost forgot to add, only a child deals in absolutes.
          • ElAssoWipo, on 12/21/2007, -9/+7Wow.

            "Can you prove the US has done anything as bad as what is hinted at in that room?"

            You really want to argue that you are right about the US never having done anything worse than what is supposed to happen in that room because I can't demonstrate that they've taken people in an enclosed space to torture them "as badly" as insurgents are supposed to torture people?

            What does that even demonstrate? And what are you defending?

            http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/sep2005/wint-s26 ...
          • norman619, on 12/21/2007, -6/+6Can you prove that the US has done to it's prisoners what was done to the al-Qaida prisoners? Sorry but stories aren't proof. Do you understand what proof is? Also how about proof in this war?
          • ElAssoWipo, on 12/21/2007, -9/+7But you KILL people. Not prisonners, CHILDREN, WOMEN, MEN, ordinary citizens, in their homeland, for MADE UP REASONS. Don't you see how that's WORSE THAN TORTURE?
          • norman619, on 12/21/2007, -9/+4Damn that 2 min limit. Anyway. The game you are playing can be used to dig up horrific things which were done to the Native Americans as proof we are no better than the savages who tortured people in that room they found. It's pretty silly. Well, there is actual proof of the horrors visited upon the Native Americans by the early US. It's actually on record. Your "proof" is based on a bunch of vets gathered in a room swapping stories.
          • ElAssoWipo, on 12/21/2007, -5/+5"Can you prove the US has done anything as bad as what is hinted at in that room?"

            "Can you prove that the US has done to it's prisoners what was done to the al-Qaida prisoners?"

            "Your "proof" is based on a bunch of vets gathered in a room swapping stories."

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neDgVb9YHcA
          • geneikillua, on 12/21/2007, -1/+4Um, you just posted a bunch of pictures of dead Iraqis. The ones with captions generally stated they were killed by car bombs. So, unless the U.S. has started targeted civilians with carbombs, you just totally tried to blame the U.S. for the actions of the terrorists in Iraq. In any event, you definitely live up to your name.
          • ElAssoWipo, on 12/21/2007, -4/+5Find me one Iraqi car bombing that predates the invasion.

            I also showed you pictures of people shot to death and a video of America bombing a civilian area.

            You kill people who defend their homeland against a foreign aggressor.
          • billydisaster, on 12/21/2007, -4/+6@norman WTF are you talking about? Have you been asleep for the past 5 years? How about prisoners being raped. How about prisoners being beaten to death. How about prisoners having electrodes attached to their testicles. These are all things that I've heard about, that has come either from video evidence or first hand testimony. And no, I'm not going to go and look them up for you. Do your own research you ***** ignorant moron.
          • benkrembs, on 12/21/2007, -1/+5Casualties of war and torture are two different things. The first is unintended, the second is intended.

            There have certainly been many horrific casualties in Iraq, but it doesn't compare to strapping someone down and torturing them to death.
          • BulkHedd, on 12/21/2007, -1/+3You keep referring to Americans as "you..." so I assume you don't live in the USA. I'm curious where you are from.
          • ElAssoWipo, on 12/21/2007, -4/+3You people are insane.
          • ncgmac, on 12/22/2007, -0/+0You are so correct, they are insane. I would take one exception to all the two wrongs make a right insanity. Americans did not endorse the torture as a people, many of us are against it, and many are against the war in Iraq. In case you missed it, that's why congress changed, though I will grant you these new people are just as inept as the old group. Most people in the U.S. are counting down the days to our next election for a leadership change.
            I would be interested in knowing these guys background too. I wonder if the justifier of war has ever been in one, or even in the service. Both are hate baiters. You threw a rock at me so I'll shoot a gun at you. I will give them one thing, if everyone uses violence a problem it will go away, after everyone is dead.
        • Dipsomaniac, on 12/21/2007, -8/+9Ah, more of the usual "It's okay if American tortures people as long as someone else does worse."
          You don't get to say that it's okay to torture just a little bit. If you want to condemn that chamber then look to cleaning your own country first.
        • nogami, on 12/21/2007, -11/+8"Can you prove the US has done anything as bad as what is hinted at in that room? Unless you are a liar the answer is no."

          Can you prove the US hasn't? Unless you are a liar, the answer is no.
          • Jonjonr6, on 12/21/2007, -1/+11Oh yes, the guilty until proven innocent approach.
          • kazamx, on 12/21/2007, -8/+7@jonjonr6

            Its the American way. "Hey Iran hasn't hurt anyone in America and there is no proof they have or are trying to get a Nuke, lets just attack them to make sure"
          • quarkie, on 12/22/2007, -0/+1Have they attacked Iran?
      • jpop, on 12/21/2007, -10/+6Torture by Americans = bad. Torture by others = No problem.
        • Synova, on 12/22/2007, -0/+2What the hell gave you the idea people believe that? I believe torture is wrong when done by ANYONE, period.
    • BohicaTwentyTwo, on 12/21/2007, -15/+12Moral equivalence AHOY!.
    • SuperMoses, on 12/21/2007, -11/+16WAR IS PEACE!
      FREEDOM IS SLAVERY!
      IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH!
    • sjl127, on 12/21/2007, -3/+2there's never any pictures in these stories...
    • cusoman, on 12/21/2007, -0/+7You know, I know where you're going with that, but have some damn respect. These people were subject to horrific things and regardless of what you think about the current administration, death is death and you should respect the people and their families by keeping your political BS out of it.
      • sjl127, on 12/22/2007, -0/+1It could galvanize some positive attitudes for what we're doing over there.
    • thedo0od, on 12/21/2007, -0/+3Goodwined on the very first post! Except this time it's actually relevant.
    • RoyLuhza, on 12/22/2007, -2/+2“…Torture house, mass graves discovered in Iraq.” …Sure they have, but who financed the operation…

      Murdoch and Co will have you believe an internecine struggle between Shia and Sunni sects within the Moslem infrastructure of Iraq, supported on the Shia side by Iran attempting to establish hegemony in the area, is at the heart of the problem, that is total BS.

      The Sunni are the descendants of the original inhabitants of the Tigris Euphrates Valley, their recorded tribal and family ancestry dates back past the time of the prophets to Adam, most often Sunni Mosques are built and maintained by a single extended family. The Shia are every one else, the Sunni are often indisposed to handle the manual chores, so they have been bringing in workers from other places for centuries. These workers attend to their religious affairs in Mosques that are in working class areas of the city. At no time has war or conflict between the two sectors of society been permitted either under secular law or within the strictures of Islam, all parties are aware that murder is met with speedy and deadly retaliation according to the instruction in The Koran.

      America goaded on by it’s dubious ally Israel, has been funding both sides in Iraq for as long as ever… The Israel America intrigue hidden out in the Pentagon, the CIA, and the White House is the worlds number one terrorist operation. Now that they wish to present the illusion that the surge for instance has worked, all they have done is told the militias to lie low.

      C4 American military explosive has been in the gruesome car bombings in Iraq, similarly a car involved in a suicide attack in Iraq was identified by its engine number as having been stolen in the US years before… Both Sunnis and Shia say the bombings are a plot to incite sectarian violence at the behest of John Negroponte, US Deputy Secretary of State... Murdoch and Co will have you believe an internecine struggle between Shia and Sunni sects within the Moslem infrastructure of Iraq, supported on the Shia side by Iran attempting to establish hegemony in the area, is at the heart of the problem. That is total BS.

      The former President of Italy went public that he was involved in US sponsored false flag terror attacks, that were carried out throughout Europe, that were subsequently blamed on spurious terror organizations.

      While Bush grandstands about how Al-Qaeda wants to kill our children and as Mossad agent Pearlman rants on a video tape about a new 9/11, the only real Al-Qaeda are being equipped, funded and trained by our own government to kill innocent civilians in the Middle East in order to pave the way for the next chapter of NeoCon blood letting while crude propaganda tapes are foisted on us at home in an effort to hoodwink us into supporting it all.

      Asked about those and the dozens of civilian bodies that turn up daily, Iraqi Interior Minister Jawad al-Bolani, laid responsibility for the deaths, including gruesome beheadings of civilians, at the feet of the unregulated force of one hundred and fifty thousand private security contractors. Fourteen thousand of whom are from Ahmad Chalabi’s Iraqi Free Forces, the remainder are from paramilitary forces with some of the worst human rights records in the world: South Africa, Colombia, Salvador, and Chile, and ex regular special forces from the United Kingdom, United States, Israel, Nepal, Fiji, and the Philippines. Beheadings, such as those seen in Iraq, are a hallmark of the Nepalese Gurkhas. WayneMadsen
  • Napoleone, on 12/21/2007, -62/+81So the US government is back to condemning torture, now? What kind of schizo Administration is this?
    • nblsavage, on 12/21/2007, -18/+45remember it's only bad if the other guy does it.
    • Berkana, on 12/21/2007, -12/+24Our government only appears to condemn torture that leaves marks, hence the waterboarding.
      • forgiste, on 12/21/2007, -8/+11What about psychological scars?
        • Berkana, on 12/21/2007, -4/+11If you can't see any scars, there's plausible deniability; they can attribute any psychological scars on other things far more easily than physical scars.
      • bbardlbradd, on 12/21/2007, -3/+6The U.S. judicial system seems to be blind to anything that is not empirical in nature.
      • norman619, on 12/21/2007, -5/+5Yes let's just use harsh words when we interrogate people. When that doesn't work we can try using our manners and bake cakes and coockies for them. That would be very effective. Can I visit your world?
        • Denamite, on 12/22/2007, -1/+2There are interrogation-techniques you know, but I guess you don't have a problem with the cops waterboarding you to get your confession either?
    • Hobbes24, on 12/21/2007, -10/+20yea, i hear we're not using mass graves, powerdrills, swords, hooks, and chains anymore either!

      idiot.
      • bbardlbradd, on 12/21/2007, -6/+7America is supposed to be the pinnacle government of the world as it proclaims to specialize in human rights, something everyone agrees with... we wouldn't use power drills, swords, hooks and chains. We'll use "diplomacy", economic manipulation, Uranium 234 (as ammunition), scare tactics (on the enemy and the people paying for the war), and... of course, the argument that "We know what's best, we are America".
        • Hobbes24, on 12/21/2007, -1/+2you saying you woudln't rather have us mess with economies from time to time, and use scare tactics instead of brutally and violenlty torturing our own people just for fun?

          Neither are great, but what we are doing is nothing compared to them.
          • bbardlbradd, on 01/11/2008, -0/+1No, the point is, we aren't any better than they are.
      • kazamx, on 12/21/2007, -4/+6Who cares what method you use? If you torture someone to the point that they can't take it anymore and say and do anything you want them to, then its torture.

        I am not going to start saying drowning someone until they passout over and over and over and over is OK, but doing something that leaves a mark isn't.
    • freedomkeeper, on 12/21/2007, -17/+10An al qeida torture chamber...yet you find a way of bashing Bush because of it. It's starting to feel like the boy who cried wolf, except most people never listened to you in the first place.
      • nblsavage, on 12/21/2007, -5/+9sauce for the goose. if torture is ok for us to use then it must be ok for others to use also.
      • ElAssoWipo, on 12/21/2007, -8/+14Al Qaeda would not be in Iraq if it weren't for Bush.


        You invaded a country. Everything bad that happens because of this invasion is your fault.
        • quarkie, on 12/22/2007, -3/+0I just want to point out that if they didn't invade the country, than everything that happened in the country after that would be their fault too.
          Hindsight is 20/20 my friend.
        • ElAssoWipo, on 12/22/2007, -1/+1If I cross the street and get hit by a car, is it everyone else's fault that I got hit by a car?

          If someone pushes me infront of a car, is it my fault that I got hit by a car?

          I suggest you go back to third grade because making that fallacy, in a cognitive test, would earn you a borderline retard grade.
      • Rahodeb, on 12/21/2007, -9/+5It has become obligatory for all internet commentary. Everything is a reason to hate America > America became bad because of Bush > Therefore everything is Bush's fault. It must be nice to live in such a simple world.
        • ElAssoWipo, on 12/21/2007, -3/+6I think that murder is a good reason to hate someone.
          • Rahodeb, on 12/21/2007, -2/+2But not a good reason to blame the worlds ills on someone. Evil didn't start, nor will it end with this administration; America wasn't the holy grail of freedom and tolerance before Bush; Politicians lied before Bush; America embarked on meaningless wars against countries before Iraq; All of the ills we see today are problems that we are going to have to face long after Bush co is gone.
          • ElAssoWipo, on 12/21/2007, -0/+6You started a war.
            You are blamed for the war.
            You don't stop the war.
            You don't even have a plan to end the war.
            You don't even know why there is a war.
            You don't even know what will make you a "winner" of the war.

            Nobody is blaming Bush for the ills of the world. He, as the leader of your country, declared war and attacked a country. He is blamed for that.
        • boflaade, on 12/22/2007, -1/+1American troops are American too. The war/invasion would not take place nor continue, without American's participating. If Bush is so hated by Americans , why then do they physically abide by his decisions. The military is a population of it's own, wholly supported by Americans.
      • bbardlbradd, on 12/21/2007, -1/+6 You have to be blind to not see that some if not most of what's going on now _is_ in fact a byproduct of having a ***** administration... but no, it's not their faults entirely, it's the American populations irresponsibility... we should be paying more attention. America is not perfect, it's as weak and feeble as any, but we grow up thinking that it's so stable, and so true... so we can have fun at the elections, and we can vote for the people who have a definable personality that we can all agree, and seem to carry our values...

        Most of the people I know voted for Bush, and all of them regret it now. Maybe from now on, we should do more homework than watching the televised debates... uno, the ones that have time limits on how much one can say about any given topic, and have commercials for swiffers...
    • lyzz, on 12/21/2007, -6/+9One that will protect its citizens by using whatever means necessary to extract information from people who's only goal in life is to kill Americans. If you caught a suicide bomber on their way to kill innocent people, what would you do?
      However, if the person is simply exercising a civil right such as free speech, or freedom of religion, the injustice of torture is unimaginable.
      • Dipsomaniac, on 12/21/2007, -2/+7Torture is wrong, period. You don't get to have a *bit* of torture when you think it's okay.
        Period.
        • lyzz, on 12/21/2007, -1/+1 Ideally, I would agree with you. However, on this planet there are people in this world who hate you. I doesn't matter who you are or what you believe. If you could stop a person full of hate from killing people by torturing them would you do it?
          This is a question that our government has to deal with. Torturing people can reveal information that SAVES LIVES.
        • mike17032, on 12/21/2007, -1/+1You get to sleep nice and safe in your bed every night because of people who are willing to do violence and inflict pain on those who would cause you harm.

          I promise you that I can setup a reason that you would be ok with torture. The world isnt nearly as black and white as you want it to be.
      • MegaSmack, on 12/21/2007, -1/+5So much for innocent until proven guilty.
        • DeadRepubs, on 12/21/2007, -2/+2In a 'Post 9/11' world its guily until proven innocent after death.
          • sumGIRL, on 12/21/2007, -1/+1Golly thats profound, you should write a book. You might call it "The Book of Asshatisms - by DeadRepubs." Is that pronounced ree-pubs or ree-pubes?
      • kazamx, on 12/21/2007, -4/+4Americans seem to believe that whatever they do is the 'right' thing and that means the end justifies the means.

        If for example a foreign power took over America, I am sure Americans would support any means needed to get them out again. Thats why I believe the Iraqis are freedom fighters.
        • lyzz, on 12/21/2007, -0/+1So your in support of the beheadings and torture that the terrorists are doing? Are you seriously calling the extremists who kill there own countrymen freedom fighters? You are more ignorant than most Americans I know.
          @kazamx Americans seem to believe that whatever they do is the 'right' thing and that means the end justifies the means.
          This is such a general statement that it could never be true. You're entitled to your opinion though.
    • ElAssoWipo, on 12/21/2007, -4/+8They are not condemning it. They are justifying their own crimes.

    • NeoMatrixJR, on 12/21/2007, -3/+1The one that was elected by this schizo society....
      • fix8ed, on 12/21/2007, -2/+2If you hate it so much, leave. Or continue to whine on the internets and join the Bush-hate bandwagon like the majority of you ignorant unpatriotic pieces of filth have.
        • NeoMatrixJR, on 01/03/2008, -0/+0Not on the Bush-hate bandwagon. Although I'm becoming a bit disappointed at some things going on in DC right now. I believe we should get the job done. My comment was geared towards indicating that the administration is acting as it is based on public opinion, something which I fail to see the merits of. The administration is already unpopular, so they may as well do the job they need to do.
  • Proctor, on 12/21/2007, -20/+9This is quite a large one: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/im ...
  • niroj, on 12/21/2007, -37/+17all in the name of allah
    • pintomp3, on 12/21/2007, -6/+17and the US does it in the name of christ? israel does it in the name of moses? china does it in the name of ____? bad people do bad things, seeking justification is only an afterthought.
      • Rahodeb, on 12/21/2007, -11/+2"and the US does it in the name of christ"

        WTF are you smoking? Holy war, oil war, halliburton war, illuminati; stop using whatever is convenient to support your anti-war position at the moment. There are enough legitimate reasons. But, don't for a second think that there is any equivalence between the cruelty of the extremist muslim movement and any others. It is on a far greater scale.
      • ElAssoWipo, on 12/21/2007, -4/+6"It is on a far greater scale."

        I'm sorry, I must have missed the part when Al Qaeda falsified evidence to invade a country and then murder hundreds of thousands of civilians.

        Can you please show me when they outmurdered your hundreds of thousands of civilians for made up reasons?
        • slvrbullet87, on 12/21/2007, -3/+6Could you please site a sorce that shows that US soldiers killed hundreds of thousands of civilians. Hundreds of thousands are the numbers for US millitary causalties in WW2, or combined english cassulaties of WW2. That kind of death hasnt occoured in Iraq.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_war_ii_casualti ...

          yeah it is a wiki article but it is well sorced.
          • ElAssoWipo, on 12/21/2007, -1/+52004: 100,000: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A796 ...
            http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/29/iraq.dea ...

            2006: 655,000:
            http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1892888,00 ...
            http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/10/11/iraq.dea ...
            http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic ...
          • thcobbs, on 12/21/2007, -5/+2We didn't kill them... their neighbors killed them. We just got the blame because we removed the guy who used to kill them ALL to keep them in line.
          • slvrbullet87, on 12/21/2007, -2/+1Previous independent estimates of civilian deaths in Iraq were far lower, never exceeding 16,000. Other experts immediately challenged the new estimate, saying the small number of documented deaths upon which it was based make the conclusions suspect.

            "The methods that they used are certainly prone to inflation due to overcounting," said Marc E. Garlasco, senior military analyst for Human Rights Watch, which investigated the number of civilian deaths that occurred during the invasion. "These numbers seem to be inflated."

            That is in your First article- It says the estimate is ***** itself

            Second article
            Thus they calculate that 654,965 Iraqis have died as a consequence of the invasion. It is an estimate and the mid-point, and most likely of a range of numbers that could also be correct in the context of their statistical analysis. But even the lowest number in the range - 392,979 - is higher that anyone else has suggested. Of the deaths, 31% were ascribed to the US-led forces. Most deaths were from gunshot wounds (56%), with a further 13% from car bomb injuries and 14% the result of other explosions.

            This article said 31% percent were caused by US forces. So if you figure that some are insurgents and sadams military you get about 100 thousand caused by the USA. Oh and we arent the ones setting bombs in markets.
          • ElAssoWipo, on 12/21/2007, -0/+4You invaded the country. You are responsible for all these deaths. You don't have to be killing people with your bare hands to be responsible for their death. The fact is that if you had not invaded for made up reasons, they would be alive.

            In any case, you are still way ahead of Al Qaeda.
          • quarkie, on 12/22/2007, -2/+0ElAssoWipo:
            "You invaded the country. You are responsible for all these deaths. "
            Hmm... who's more responsible for collateral damage... the person who sets the roadside bomb up, or the target of the bomb?
          • ElAssoWipo, on 12/22/2007, -0/+3The person who created a situation in which a man wants to make road side bombs to defend HIS country against a foreign AGRESSOR.
          • thcobbs, on 12/22/2007, -3/+1Thank you Wipo for demonstrating the "Its ALWAYS the USAs fault for ANYTHING BAD that happens" digg view.
          • ElAssoWipo, on 12/22/2007, -1/+3OK, then, tell me who's fault it is that America invaded Iraq.

            I suppose it's the U.N? I don't even know how you can still defend yourselves. Your country is corrupted, kills people, tortures people all for made up reasons and you still find a way to defned yourself, very poorly, but you still do.

            YOU MURDERED CHILDREN. You don't have any excuse for that, you are despicable. Morally comparable to Nazi germany. Murderer = Murderer.

            And you even have the balls to say that the citizens of a country you attacked for no ***** reason are not justified when they defend their own ***** country. IT's THEIR country, they are supposed to kill you for being war criminals. You kill them, they kill you back. That's how it works.

            You are in complete denial.
        • randf, on 12/21/2007, -4/+2actually, i think that is in their mission statement...to murder any/all infidels. you must have missed that part too.
          • ElAssoWipo, on 12/21/2007, -1/+5I think you are mistaking movies for reality.

            If they want to murder all the infidels, why aren't they murdering all the infidels?

            Can you prove that they want to murder all the infidels?
          • fix8ed, on 12/21/2007, -2/+1Can you prove that they do not? I'm sure you can because based on your responses so far, you clearly seem to side heavily with Al Qaeda.
          • ElAssoWipo, on 12/21/2007, -0/+2http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/burden-of ...
      • Iamyourowner, on 12/21/2007, -5/+0What.....................The......................*****....................
    • ElAssoWipo, on 12/21/2007, -8/+5Actually, this one is in the name of national defense.
    • bbardlbradd, on 12/21/2007, -1/+1No, they actually think beforehand that bad is ok if you do it for good... and good in this case is an imaginary figure that has a bad philosophy.
  • jumblies, on 12/21/2007, -21/+7This makes it all worth it.
    • nblsavage, on 12/21/2007, -11/+10What? the torture chamber that wouldn't have been there if we hadn't invaded? This was an al-Quaeda torture chamber. They weren't there before we attacked.
      • Pake, on 12/21/2007, -10/+8What makes you think Al-Qaeda didn't have torture cells before we attacked? For all me know, they could have torture cells everywhere and they could have existed long before the war. IMO, that's like saying Al-Qaeda didn't even exist until after 9/11.
        • jonmlm, on 12/21/2007, -3/+5for all we know.... blah blah blah. santa. FSM. intelligent design. iraq myths. etc.
        • MattB123, on 12/21/2007, -0/+4They probably did. In Afghanistan. Saddam was not a religious man and didn't tolerate religious extremism under his rule.
          I'm not even going to say things were better there under his rule, but is the current state of things worth all the lives lost to get here? I don't think so.
        • 5urr3al5am, on 12/21/2007, -1/+1Its dumb to say they didn't.. It was already proven that they had training grounds in Iraq.. but the news was greatly down played by the liberal media
    • NoCt1, on 12/21/2007, -4/+3@nblsavage

      Dude For real, Do you honestly think that Iraq, Iran UK, US, or any other government doesnt torture people. Of course they do. Even Terrorist groups torture people. Even if this is staged it still doesnt cover up the torture done in the past. I remember when People were pissed because saddam would gas people or when china would shock people or hell when al queada (know its misspelled) would behead someone and put in online. The thing is torture has been around since man has been around. From when the romans held occupancy over europe to jesus to ww1 and ww2. The plain fact is The world will have torture in it and frankly if you believe that there isnt torture outside of the us, then living in a world with you is torture.
  • dotbacher, on 12/21/2007, -30/+15Yeah, Dr. Paul, lets bring all those troops home so that all other nations can live in peace without our meddling.
    • Spectre74, on 12/21/2007, -0/+10Remember al-Queda events and presence GREW and is still GROWING there after we invaded in case that was sarcasm........Not to mention that many Iraq groups have put aside many differences to share the common belief that they do not like us.
      • boflaade, on 12/22/2007, -0/+3Isn't that always the way Americans justify their invasions. Always the excuse and always a blind eye to a mirror. We do it because......!
    • njcarlos, on 12/21/2007, -3/+8Our military is not in the business of policing -- and I won't support it with my slave earnings, I mean income.
    • minoss, on 12/21/2007, -1/+9Ron Paul doesn't want to bring troops home because he thinks they'll live peacefully without us. He wants to bring them home because it's none of our ***** business to get involved in civil wars and disputes when it doesn't affect our national security.
      • tao52nyc, on 12/21/2007, -0/+6But don't you know? If we don't fight them over there, they'll all follow us home! /sarcasm
      • bbardlbradd, on 12/21/2007, -0/+4Even if we are the reason for the civil war? We shouldn't have ***** with them in the first place.
    • bbardlbradd, on 12/21/2007, -1/+2You know what I find comfort in thinking... If Ron Paul _is_ elected, and we have any more trouble than we're having now, I'd be 100% willing to go to war knowing that there's a president in office that isn't a complete idiot and will try to do things diplomatically rather than threatening the world with WW3.
      • mikeveatch, on 12/22/2007, -0/+2so if ron paul was president now youd support him just for the fact that hes ron paul thats stupid
        • bbardlbradd, on 01/11/2008, -0/+1Um, no Michael. You're missing the point.

          Ron Paul isn't the president. We all know BUSH is. Bush and his admin led us to where we are today, I think RP would have carried things out a little... differently. If you mean though, that if RP was in office from 2000-2008, and ran everything just as WB has done, I wouldn't support him @ all.

          I was saying, I would rather fight for America knowing that my commander and chief isn't a ***** moron. That I would rather put my life on the line to defend this concept of "Freedom" and our beta government if I knew that the person running the joint actually understood what he was doing there... and not just going to send me off to another war in another nation to do something that I shouldn't be doing.
    • Akronos, on 12/21/2007, -0/+2Not sure why dotbacher's comment is being dugg down. Our policies and our war are the reasons why Al-Queda is even there. If we didn't go in, this torture chamber would not have existed.
      Yes, they may not magically live in peace just because we leave. But I have a strong hunch that our unilateral and aggressive foreign policy is definitely one of the biggest obstacles towards peace in our world.
  • Dernit, on 12/21/2007, -29/+24This find is conveniently timed.
    • boflaade, on 12/22/2007, -0/+3No kidding! You seem to be defied(dugg down) because you see the obvious. "We aren't so bad. Look at what they did."
    • DesertDude, on 12/25/2007, -0/+1What do you mean conveniently timed? We have two sides at war (US military vs. insurgents) and one side is accusing the other side of something, you don't find that objective and believable?
  • Drlite, on 12/21/2007, -37/+4Yea, we found a few more, ones call gitmo...... p.s. RON PAUL!!!!!!
  • xniL, on 12/21/2007, -3/+30This is indeed a disturbing universe.
    • forgiste, on 12/21/2007, -14/+3Are you kidding? Everything you've ever known has happened on just this one planet. Tangible matter makes up only a very very small percentage of the universe, the rest being empty space.
    • Kugo, on 12/21/2007, -1/+1Actually we know very little about the universe. We know precious little even about our galaxy. And way too little about our own solar system. And as for our "world" being disturbing: I think the world is fine. What's disturbing are the people in it. Stop trying to wave tragedy away by sentimentalizing it.
    • Optimus, on 12/22/2007, -0/+1Simpsons did it!
  • Maciula, on 12/21/2007, -20/+10Did they also find a water-board? Oh wait, silly me, according to our government simulated drowning is not a torture.
    • forgiste, on 12/21/2007, -10/+3sigh...
    • proliance, on 12/21/2007, -1/+1Are you comparing scaring somebody to actually cutting off a person's head or electrocuting him?
  • dave99mc, on 12/21/2007, -28/+32we won't hear about this much in the media because the media doesn't hold other cultures accountable as the US.
    • nblsavage, on 12/21/2007, -3/+16Considering I've already seen this story on CNN and Fox I don't think you are paying attention.
    • kazamx, on 12/21/2007, -7/+5America SHOULD be held more accountable, Your the ones in another country saying your trying to help them. In the process of helping them you killed over a million. I for one hope to god America never tries to help my country.
      • fix8ed, on 12/21/2007, -1/+4So do I; when a tyrannical leader conducts genocide on your populous, I hope we do sit the next one out. Maybe you'll be one of the chosen.
      • UberGeek404, on 12/21/2007, -1/+5Of the million you reference Americans have killed under 5%. The rest have been killed by the same people who are trying to kill us.
        • boflaade, on 12/22/2007, -0/+2They are trying to "kill us" because "us" is their enemy. "Us" are the ones who stipulate who the enemy is and seem to think the only ones, who can..
  • saltinekracka20, on 12/21/2007, -9/+57Iraq, where waterboarding is for kids.
  • ganymede2010, on 12/21/2007, -30/+5That evidence was staged!!! Look closely at the pictures. The Torture Weapons had NO BLOOD STAINS ON THEM!! The Torture Mattress had NO BLOOD ON IT?? The Floor of the Torture Chamber had NO BLOOD STAINS ON IT? OMG this is psy ops at it's worst.
    • freedomkeeper, on 12/21/2007, -3/+10Yeah, becuase al Qeida is just an innocent group of freedom fighters, right?
    • cgrickard, on 12/21/2007, -1/+8your exquisite use of punctuation really made your point. !!!!
    • wastedlife, on 12/21/2007, -2/+7When torturing people, cleanliness and sterilization are essential.
      • Ajajadude, on 12/21/2007, -0/+2You wouldn't want your captives to get an infection and die!....prematurely.
      • bbardlbradd, on 12/21/2007, -0/+2First laugh. Thx.
    • randf, on 12/21/2007, -2/+1Rosie O'donnell, is that you?
  • sysoprock, on 12/21/2007, -11/+71I think the real question here is "What does Jamie Lynn Spears think about raising her as of yet unborn child in a world where torture chambers like this exist?"
    • njcarlos, on 12/21/2007, -10/+6The better question is: what will YOU tell your child about safe sex?
      • cfuse, on 12/22/2007, -0/+1Remember, in the mouth or the ass - not the vagina.
    • Battleloser, on 12/21/2007, -3/+1Just stop.... Don't even make jokes about it. Just completly ignore it.
    • floridiot2, on 12/21/2007, -2/+3LEAVE HER ALONE
    • Randomheroz, on 12/27/2007, -0/+1torture chambers like this have existed for quite a long time throughout the world....
  • sherpa88, on 12/21/2007, -10/+10"War does funny things to men" -Max Fischer
  • mikebaldwin67, on 12/21/2007, -21/+63quick survey... When you read the headline, did you think the U.S. was responsible?

    I'm ashamed to say I did.
    • saltinekracka20, on 12/21/2007, -24/+32Yes, but only because Digg is nothing but a cesspool of anti-American propaganda.
      • bumcheekcity, on 12/21/2007, -9/+13AMERICA is nothing but a cesspool of anti-American propoganda. You don't have to make anything up.
      • kazamx, on 12/21/2007, -8/+10the scary thing is though, that Digg has more morals than the American Government. If America was still against torture. If America was against secret police monitoring your every move. If America was for freedom for other countries to choose their future, then Digg would be with them.

        Digg just like every none fundamentalist (of any religion) is against torture, is against lies, is against jail without trial. If that makes us against America, then so be it.
        • thcobbs, on 12/21/2007, -3/+7If pushing half-truths and junk science to shove your agenda down people's throats is High moral ground....
        • fix8ed, on 12/21/2007, -3/+5So now you speak for the entire community of Digg? Please, crawl back into your little hovel in your perfectly quaint country and shut the f up.
        • mike17032, on 12/21/2007, -2/+6Most of the ***** that flows to digg from Rawstory and Thinkprogress is about as truthful as 911truth.org.
        • bbardlbradd, on 12/22/2007, -1/+1Uh, pushing? You come read it thcobbs... it's not pushing if you volunteer.
      • randf, on 12/21/2007, -4/+12hey now, there's no reason to insult cesspools.
      • boflaade, on 12/22/2007, -1/+1What propaganda?
    • gn0stik, on 12/21/2007, -10/+6When you read your comment did you realize that you are a douchebag? Proud to say I did.
    • bbardlbradd, on 12/21/2007, -3/+7All of the sudden, human rights are anti-american. What exactly is "American" saltinekracka20? Do you hold the definition for all of us people who are by definition "American"???

      Also, I don't know if you've ever heard of "Thomas Jefferson" but he was quoted as saying "Single acts of tyranny may be ascribed to the accidental opinion of a day (The Vote to put Bush in office); but a series of oppressions (6 years of lies and 'reasons' to send us to nation after nation to establish _our_ favored form of government (Which he was against "We surely cannot deny to any nation that right whereon our own government is founded, that every one may govern itself according to whatever form it pleases and change these forms at its own will... The will of the nation is the only thing essential to be regarded."- Thomas Jefferson 1792)), begun at a distinguished period and pursued unalterably through every change of ministers, too plainly prove a deliberate, systematic plan of reducing [a people] to slavery."- Thomas Jefferson circa 1774

      And you may have heard of this one: ""The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."- Thomas Jefferson 1787

      As you can see in this case, even a founder of the constitution is anti-american... Hmm, something seems odd about that, doesn't it? One of the founders was anti-american? No, maybe not... Maybe you have the wrong idea about what America is.
    • timeshifter, on 12/21/2007, -6/+4No, not for a moment did I think the US was responsible.

      You should be ashamed.
    • LoveYouSomeEric, on 12/21/2007, -3/+5I'm not convinced that they aren't.
    • eagles2k3, on 12/22/2007, -1/+1You probably also thought that the US was also responsible for cutting off Daniel Pearlmen's head and sending it around the internet for everyone to view.
    • mscbuck, on 12/22/2007, -0/+1How the hell does this have 40 Thumbs up.

      This just shows the extreme bias and gullibility of most of hte readers here. This is like going around to environmentalist and them signing a petition to ban "Dihydrogen Oxide" (see Penn and Teller: ***** for the insane results).

      The only reason you should be ashamed is that you are stupid enough to jump to conclusions without even reading the freakin' document.
  • Pherdnut, on 12/21/2007, -23/+5You won't hear much about this in the media because it's not very shocking. No one is going to argue that Al Qaeda isn't a brutal organization that puts its own concerns above all others. What is shocking is to discover that now our organization is the same.
    • HenryJonesJr, on 12/21/2007, -2/+4The same? Really? Exaggerating the facts doesn't further your cause it only makes you look like a nut. You may not like our practices but they are hardly the same as Al Qaeda's.
  • iraq, on 12/21/2007, -25/+13It's only torture when the "evil-doers" do it.. and clearly America is a good-doer. America does not torture, America does not torture, America does not torture.. "The United States does not torture" -- George W. Bush.
    • jessethouin, on 12/21/2007, -6/+6Will you people stop calling The United States of America "America?" America is a pair of continents. The United States of America is a country on the northern continent called "North America." It's between Canada and Mexico.

      Why do I complain about this? Because you're insulting Canada. :)

      ...it's a joke, people.
  • drwatson, on 12/21/2007, -23/+5I wonder if Gitmo is worse.
  • saturnx8, on 12/21/2007, -20/+94you people are such a joke, "CIA did worse" really ? I think large quantities of people buried alive beheading, rape, electrocution and limb removal is a it more extreme.
    some of you people suck beyond expression
    • Pherdnut, on 12/21/2007, -12/+21The tragedy is that there shouldn't even be a comparison. It doesn't matter if they use even MORE brutal methods of torture. There's no excuse for any of it.
      • Miche1987, on 12/21/2007, -8/+6So who cares if I stole a dollar when someone else stole a million? We both stole, and there obviously shouldn't be a comparison.
        • Devrdander, on 12/21/2007, -2/+7Who cares if you killed one person when someone else killed a hundred... Still a murderer.

          .See how I turned that around there? Apples to Oranges...
        • cusoman, on 12/21/2007, -1/+2There are no apples and oranges, only sin.
        • FasterGun, on 12/21/2007, -1/+2And cake!

          Wait...
        • robberry, on 12/21/2007, -0/+2The cake is a lie.
      • gn0stik, on 12/21/2007, -1/+4I agree to a point. However, there is simply no moral equivalent to what these people are doing, and what we have done. I'm not saying that water boarding is ok, but it's not the same.
      • benkrembs, on 12/21/2007, -1/+6Agreed, but come on...

        Cutting off someone's limbs is WAY WAY WAY worse than an aggressive "belly slap" (a la the CIA).
    • tankd0g, on 12/21/2007, -12/+7CIA is responsible for plenty of mass muder buddy, get your facts straight.
      • fix8ed, on 12/21/2007, -3/+4Looks like they missed one then. You still have the ability to type these idiotic statements.
      • gn0stik, on 12/21/2007, -2/+3ORLY? Please enlighten us O knower of things.
      • boflaade, on 12/22/2007, -0/+2They put enough butchers in power to not claim innocence. Ask the Chileans what they think of the last dictator, the US put in power for them.
    • davecor, on 12/22/2007, -2/+2I think there is a subtle racism in comments like that. A friend from India once put it to me like this; Brown people brutalizing other brown people isn't nearly as shocking to Americans as white people doing the same thing.
  • ganymede2010, on 12/21/2007, -14/+9"Despite such scare mongering, it is highly improbable that al Qaeda could use Iraq as the kind of safe haven it enjoyed in Afghanistan. There, the organization had the protection of an entrenched, friendly government, which it will not have in Iraq. Al Qaeda also had a much larger force in Afghanistan -- an estimated 18,000 fighters. Even the U.S. government concedes that there are fewer than 2,000 al Qaeda fighters in Iraq, and the Iraq Study Group put the figure at only 1,300"

    http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=7353

    WAKE UP, WE'RE NOT KILLING AL QUEDA WE'RE KILLING IRAQI'S!!
    • notque, on 12/21/2007, -0/+3And when a right wing think tank agrees with it (and the military if you'd care to listen to them), you know the whole thing is a sham.

      Everyone but the propaganda says there's less than 1% al Qaeda fighters, and that less than 1% isn't even affiliated with the other group, they just took the name.

      The Military acknowledges this. I watch the hearings on CSPAN.
      • gn0stik, on 12/21/2007, -0/+2My question is, what qualifies one of these groups as being genuine Al-Qaeda? Is it as simple as proclaiming solidarity?
  • NotAChickenHawk, on 12/21/2007, -14/+12Sadly, when I saw the headline, I didn't know if it was the terrorists or the US that ran this thing. A rotten shame that we live in a day and age where we have to consider seriously that it may be us doing the torturing
  • cgrickard, on 12/21/2007, -9/+21you people seriously need to sort out your priorities if you can read this article and ONLY think "America's a hypocrite." i dunno, i might be the crazy one...but how bout the idea that it's wrong for everyone. no? too level headed?
    • nblsavage, on 12/21/2007, -6/+6I don't think anyone has supported the idea that torture is ok for everyone *but* the U.S.
      • cgrickard, on 12/21/2007, -2/+6so when the US tortures people we get mad at the US. and when iraqi's are torturing people we also get mad at the US. that's cool. all i'm saying is that instead of everyone posting "america does it too!" maybe consider for a minute that it's a tragedy it's happening at all.
        • BrokenVisage, on 12/21/2007, -0/+6Well we're supposed to be civilized and non-confrontational, obviously they play with a different set of cards and different set of rules but it doesn't mean we lower ourselves to what they do. That's why people are pissed at the US, what ever happened to diplomacy?
        • kazamx, on 12/21/2007, -0/+6I think the problem is that we all accept that evil people do evil things. We know its wrong but thats why they are evil. The hard bit is when the person saying look at how evil these people are, is doing the same thing.

          yes its all evil, but its much much harder to understand when you can't tell the difference between the 'good' guys and the 'bad' guys
        • cgrickard, on 12/22/2007, -0/+1i completely agree and understand. i appreciate that these responses were well thought out....dugg for thinking through a good response. frustrating and discouraging situation out there.
    • benkrembs, on 12/21/2007, -0/+3Very well said. Kind of f'ed up that anytime evil in world is revealed, people on Digg bend over backwards to somehow point out how Bush or the US are worse.
  • chosenjones, on 12/21/2007, -10/+4I'd like to see 411 photos of what goes on at guantanamo bay!
    • boflaade, on 12/22/2007, -0/+2You were dugg down because some don't want to see the photo's. Can you blame them, when there is only so much a person can stomach.
  • nontaxpayer, on 12/21/2007, -15/+2Al queda is CIA. Why is this news...that the Americans(cia) are torturing?
    • apache4, on 12/21/2007, -2/+1you have absolutely no idea what your talking about do you? thanks for the worthless comment.
    • csewell, on 12/21/2007, -2/+1Your an idiot. Kill yourself and do the world a favor. Hopefully, you dont have any kids
  • CNY4RonPaul, on 12/21/2007, -16/+4I agree with the poster that said this was psy ops. I would think there would be some blood in that chamber. But no. The people who set this up are too stupid to include blood. I am sure the bodies they had found are just civilians that were killed by our troops and this would be a good cover up calling it a "torture chamber". I have to admit also that when I read the headline that US Forces would be behind the tortures. Their track record only proves it to be true.

    I cannot believe after about two weeks of trying to make water boarding seem as though it is not torture the media shows us a place where people get cuffed to the wall and that is torture. *****. I am so sick of the lies. I just wish the end would come so all the devils in the flesh that are ruining our earth and the human name will finally eternally rot!
    • apache4, on 12/21/2007, -2/+0how old are you? hhahaha, you believe to much crap
    • randf, on 12/21/2007, -1/+1yep, they only hire the biggest dummies to work psy ops missions. go back to your basement.
  • bigfinger, on 12/21/2007, -12/+18Religion of peace? This is Muslim on Muslim crimes against each other. Where Protestants and Catholics torturing then beheading each other? (real question, I was too young to know what was going on in the 80’s) Is there anywhere else in the world today where one religion (other then Islam) is at war with a different sect of the same religion? This is barbarism and savagery at its worst, regardless of what faith did this to what faith. Don’t jump in here and say Atheists have never killed people, because China is doing it right now.
    • apache4, on 12/21/2007, -2/+2dude, please look into some history, please
    • bumcheekcity, on 12/21/2007, -1/+3To answer your question: Yes, albeit not so recently. The Christians appeared to have gone through this phase of murder and torture years ago. For instance, in 1600's England, you could be burned at the stake for practising the wrong religion (Protestant/Catholic). Not as many people were as is often thought, but it numbers into the thousands, which is pretty big when you think about it.

      Torture devices like the Rack and thumbscrews were common throughout the 1600's to the 1800's, and even beyond. The Russians have been torturing people for years, and the Nazis, nice, White people, did that just 50 years ago, with extra added Genocide.

      So you know, it's all relative. Torture's been going on all the time, and it's not true to say that one colour of people is the backwards kind on the basis that they're doing it today.
    • tankd0g, on 12/21/2007, -3/+1The Crusades killed more people, most of them Muslims, than any Muslim group has come close to matching. But in modern times, if you want atrocities based on religious differences or regional heritage, Africa is still the heavyweight champion of the world.
      • saltinekracka20, on 12/21/2007, -2/+3WAAAYYYY off. You need to read up on you Islamic history. Muslims have killed millions and millions of people in the name of Muhammad. Seriously, don't spread lies that your other athiest buddy heard from his athiest buddy about how many people Christians killed over history. There are many MUCH worse.
      • gn0stik, on 12/21/2007, -0/+4Not even close, man. The inquisition was bad, as were the crusades, but it's not even close. If you want to assign a prize to a religion for being the most brutal, and violent, Islam wins hands down. They have historically been the most intolerant of any religion. Buddhist, Hindus, Christians, Other Muslims, etc. All summarily executed by the millions upon refusal to convert. It's how the Caliphates grew into the Ottoman empire. It's how it moved into Europe before being fought back at the massive expense of life. And it's how it's been from the very, very beginning. Muhammad spread it the same way. Entire towns executed for not converting. Go read the Qur'an, then read the history of the spread of Islam.

        Again, Christianity is not free of blame, but it's not even close to Islam.
    • ZenMojo, on 12/21/2007, -2/+3According to George W. Bush's lapdog, Petraeus, Al-Qaeda's responsible for 6% of the violence in Iraq. Which means 94% of the people killing each other have nothing to do with these torture chambers. See? Even in the world of killing innocent people and sectarian violence, there are definitely degrees.
      • gn0stik, on 12/21/2007, -1/+2You mean 94% of these torture chambers are not run by Al-Qaeda?

        Just because the media is stupid doesn't mean you have to be.
    • Baroja1898, on 12/22/2007, -1/+1Good job at showing how ignorant you are about history.
      • bigfinger, on 12/23/2007, -0/+1I'm sure you know everything that ever happen so please share with us instead of calling out someone that they have already admitted not knowing.
  • bingobongony, on 12/21/2007, -20/+19That ***** Bush! torturing innocent Iraqis in a room that he built, and made it to look like it was old and that Saddam built it!
  • meridian300, on 12/21/2007, -0/+14Power Drills?!? That's ***** sick.
    • salinemist, on 12/21/2007, -1/+7Where are all of the liberal bloggers volunteering to be drilled in the thigh?
    • slvrbullet87, on 12/21/2007, -2/+1havent you seen a movie lately touture porn is cool... or incredably boring i forget
    • bfellow, on 12/21/2007, -0/+0You mean sick in a good way or a bad way?
  • OverkillTASF, on 12/21/2007, -10/+52Come on people... "America does the same"? Ok, I agree, water boarding is torture, as in, something I never want done to me. But would you not agree that there are levels of torture? There's "oh, man, that sucks. I'd be panicking and stuff... wow." and then there's "Wow, I was electrocuted on a rusty bed frame, then all my teeth were pulled out, they drilled holes into my arms, burned my legs, plucked out my eyes, and then finally drilled a hole into my head to kill me." Can you really claim that they're the same thing? If we're going to dilute the word "torture" with "water boarding", we need something to more accurately explain what was being done in these rooms, because this is in an entirely different world from water boarding.
    • LaurenceCC, on 12/21/2007, -10/+9Waterboarding makes you feel like your dying. I wouldn't undermine it.
      • bieber, on 12/21/2007, -3/+7And this ***** also makes you feel like you're dying...except you actually are. As far as what's acceptable under extreme (and I mean _extreme_) circumstances goes, I draw the line at things that inflict permanent bodily harm. Waterboarding doesn't. Removing teeth, limbs, drilling the body, etc. most certainly does...
        • kazamx, on 12/21/2007, -4/+1LOL, its possible to break a mans mind without leaving a mark on him. With enough mental torture you can crack his mind and drive him insaine, but thats OK by your definition.

          No my friend there are not different levels. it doesn't matter if it leaves a mark. if you take someone to the point of death over and over and over, then thats just as evil.
          • thcobbs, on 12/21/2007, -1/+1Insanity is permanent bodily harm in my book.
          • gn0stik, on 12/21/2007, -0/+2Hmm, I've yet to see a single example of an individual who was driven insane from water baording. Also, permanent insanity is quite rare, and it's not usually something someone can be "driven to." It's usually the result of a chemical imbalance of some kind in the brain.
    • bigfinger, on 12/21/2007, -2/+14/agreed
      I have seen video of water boarding (CBS 60min I think) It's not the same, bad and scary yes, but not even close. Scarying the ***** out of someone happens all the times at the movies or a prank and no one says its torture. Hazing in the USMC happens all the time, if you ask those who went through it say it sucked but its not turtre. If you rip some one apart burn alive, saw their head off alive, drag through the streets on fire, stoned to death, thats real tuture. I'm not saying I would ever want to be water boarded but I'll take it over all of the above.
      • LowFuel, on 12/21/2007, -4/+5Are you seriously suggesting that waterboarding is similar to watching a scary movie?
        • kazamx, on 12/21/2007, -2/+1I don't think he realises that the CBS special was made for America. Its a little like the war. the Americans are only allowed to see small parts of it. The Government only lets the media show the bits it wants.

          Yes they show some bad stuff, but they NEVER show you what really happens. When you hear a bomb went off you never see the blood and gore. When you hear about a school being bombed you don't see the dead kids (unless its in neat rows covered up)

          If America saw what was really happening, they would call the war off just like in Vietnam. Thats why you can't evil see the coffins coming home.
          • thcobbs, on 12/21/2007, -2/+2I think that if Americans REALLY saw what was going on, they would be MORTIFIED that we haven't stopped it earlier.... like in Africa. I can't remember the name of that region that Clooney is always going on about.
      • OverkillTASF, on 12/21/2007, -2/+10It's closer to watching a scary movie than it is to having a hole drilled in your head. But I agree, not the same thing.
        • kazamx, on 12/21/2007, -4/+3Mate they kill you. They drown you REALLY DROWN YOU until you pass out. Now think for a moment, there is no difference between that and really drowning, you go through all the pain panic and everything. the only difference is just before you die they stop.

          That means they can in effect kill you over and over.
          • thcobbs, on 12/21/2007, -1/+3Apparently, you've never drank too much. Passing out from drinking is very akin to drowning as you are depriving your brain of the oxygen it needs.
      • dibbler, on 12/22/2007, -0/+0http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php ...

        Read this from somebody who waterboarded themselves in controlled environment. Waterboarding is not scary, it brings on a hard wired, instinctive feeling of impending death. He says that given a choice between waterboarding and physical torture that you describe, he would have his fingers smashed with a hammer every time.
        • andyd273, on 12/23/2007, -0/+1Ah, but did he have his hand smashed in a controlled environment? Or wrapped in a rug and ironed? He might feel differently about the subject after that...
    • mattyd12466, on 12/21/2007, -6/+1dont make excusess for them...they know what they where doing...facts are facts.
    • tankd0g, on 12/21/2007, -3/+1Waterboarding is just the method they've told you about. I shudder to think what has happened to all the people that didn't make it to Gitmo.
    • eagles2k3, on 12/22/2007, -0/+1Perfectly said. Next thing we're going to hear is that sleep deprivation is worse.
    • Baroja1898, on 12/22/2007, -0/+1So, as long as our torturing isn't as bad as their torturing, then it's ok. Is that what you're saying? YOU need to be tortured.
  • chosenjones, on 12/21/2007, -13/+12I love how the media wants us to see photos of what they do. But, why don't they try getting 411 photos of what goes on at Guantanamo Bay on the internet?
    • eagles2k3, on 12/22/2007, -1/+2Probably because it's not newsworthy. I mean it's not like we're cutting heads off of journalists and sending that around on the internets. Video footage of three square meals a day and prayer times doesn't really make for good ratings.
  • MaximusD, on 12/21/2007, -6/+11Saddam's human rights violations were heinous -- it's sad to know that torture and fear still control Iraq. With all terrible, unforgivable things this war brought with it, you'd think at least it would put an end to torture chambers. Nope -- not only did we build our own and start openly defying the Geneva conventions, but now there are extremists that are more ***** insane than Saddam, who thrive and grow under our unjust and oppressive war. It's amazing seeing a couple trillion dollars at work. Three cheers for freedom.
    • thcobbs, on 12/21/2007, -1/+4Go read up on the Geneva Conventions.... Terrorists who fight for NO Country, conceal their weapons, and wear NO standard uniform AREN'T COVERED.
  • mdshoreboy, on 12/21/2007, -8/+3This isn't our torture chamber. What a dumb link.
    • bromanct, on 12/21/2007, -4/+5What a dumb comment.
      • apache4, on 12/21/2007, -0/+1yes really... I'm really starting to question the intelligence of a lot of the users on this site...
  • thinman1189, on 12/21/2007, -10/+56 months from now we find out this was used by US backed militants. Who knew making a deal with the devil was a bad idea?
  • sirloin, on 12/21/2007, -9/+2maybe we can learn from them..
    we waterbaord they electrocute
    we had leaks, they didnt.. mayeb we shoudl electrocute
    they kiled 25 we know we kiled a man by packing him in ice.
    there floors covered in blood and so are ours.
    they torture the innocent, and hey so do we...
    only diffe5rnce i see is electricity versus water..
    • CraigJ, on 12/21/2007, -1/+2"only diffe5rnce i see is electricity versus water.." Then you are blind or stupid or (most likely) both
  • chadfaaborg, on 12/21/2007, -11/+4I bet them Al Qadias had a few of those barbaric water boarding stations, too. I'm sure we can trust the libs to be outraged over this news.
    • tankd0g, on 12/21/2007, -0/+2Al Quaida isn't foolish enough to think any information can be gained by torture, their only goal is murder, quick or slow are the two flavors available.
  • mattyd12466, on 12/21/2007, -12/+7this is probably some lame attempt by bush to remove some of the heat hes getting about the waterboarding scandle. After all, now he can say that yes we torture, but its happy/nice torturing....not that wierd nasty torturing that goes on over there *points towards Iraq*

    Basically Bush has ***** America, truly...for the next 1000 years people are only going to remember him as a war mongering idiot who took one of the greatest nations on the planet down the plug hole. He has ***** America, more so than any terrorist ever could.
    • apache4, on 12/21/2007, -3/+2was bush even president when that even took place? and no bush didn't ***** America, it was Jimmy Carter. Do any of you know anything about history what so ever???
      • apache4, on 12/21/2007, -1/+2and just to clear things up, what i meant was: did the events on the tape occur when he was president
      • salinemist, on 12/21/2007, -3/+1How many diggerals know that Mein Kampf is a bestseller among the Palestinians?
    • tankd0g, on 12/21/2007, -1/+1It was George Washington. God damn hippy.
  • truspect0r, on 12/21/2007, -9/+5Rightwing burial brigade commencing.
  • datek2517, on 12/21/2007, -5/+3When we are fighting such grizzly, sadistic enemies, we've got to do a better job fighting than we currently are doing. Things like this should be a rallying cry to work through our own problems so that we may go on to triumph against the disturbed psychopaths who do things like this--both at home and abroad.
  • sizzzzlerz, on 12/21/2007, -13/+11When you first read this, did you ask yourself "was it ours?"?

    Thanks to bush, I did.
    • machine82, on 12/21/2007, -4/+5I still think it was ours
    • Dustmuffins, on 12/21/2007, -1/+2It's because you're super objective. Real intellects draw conclusions BEFORE they are presented with the story.
    • LoveYouSomeEric, on 12/21/2007, -3/+3It probably WAS ours. The CIA has a very long history of brutal torture and murder, largely throughout Central and South America. To the flag-wavers who think that sounds horrible: it is horrible. A Patriotic American (as opposed to an Idiotic American) would investigate this sort of thing for themselves, look at the evidence, look at history, and then take action to try to fix our broken system. Insisting the torture is ok when we do it because we waterboard people instead of strap them to electrical beds is madness.
  • Infowarmachine, on 12/21/2007, -3/+6i find it interesting that its only just now been found, almost 5 years after we invaded..

    im not buying it yet..

    • patpl22391, on 12/21/2007, -1/+2Just because there is only one news story, doesn't mean that there is only one torture chamber. Sadly I can't say you are the biggest idiot I know, because there are a lot of people like you.
  • cjhowe, on 12/21/2007, -0/+15I think George Orwell put it best....
    "Now I will tell you the answer to my question. It is this. The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power. Not wealth or luxury or long life or happiness: only power, pure power. What pure power means you will understand presently. We are different from the oligarchies of the past, in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were cowards and hypocrites. The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just round the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal. We are not like that. We know that no one seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means, it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?"
  • tankd0g, on 12/21/2007, -4/+2"Hey Dick, I think I found a solution to out dungeon over crowding problem." - Maj. Gen. Mark P. Hertling
  • imstill, on 12/21/2007, -8/+6All one can really say for sure is that the timing for the "*****" and this story are questionable at best, no?
  • digitalchris, on 12/21/2007, -8/+7Does this article strike anyone else as a bit fishy? "suspected" al-Qaida torture chamber? US forces "forge[ing] alliances with tribes seeking to reclaim their regions."? Villagers who "knew about the torment but were too intimidated by extremists to tell authorities"?

    Does anybody remember when we invaded Iraq because of Saddam Hussein, and it was generally accepted that there was no real Al Qaida presence IN Iraq? Between then and last year, Al Qaida has infiltrated and silenced the tribes of Iraq, who eagerly await our emancipation... hmm....

    Good job, war on terror!
    • tankd0g, on 12/21/2007, -4/+2See, you've been reading that wrong, it's war (run)on terror. Hence, Mission Accomplished!
  • anarchytv, on 12/21/2007, -5/+8Yeah, the US government only condemns torture that leaves marks, because that would be photographable evidence of a crime. If an agent or soldier or cop of the US government does that, the governments position is... they deserve to go down for being so stupid, and we can distance ourselves from it by saying we condemn and stand against torture and will prosecute them, therefore we look good. However, torture that leaves no marks, like sensory deprivation, noise, extreme heat and cold, sleep deprivation, waterboarding, stress, threats, terror (for example, putting bag over someones head, putting them on ground next to car tire, and pressing weight on their head like its the car tire... and revving the engine while they threaten them to talk) is all okay. IE, if it leaves no marks to cooperate their story, it never happened, and we look the other way, if it gets the job done. And you get a promotion.

    My big posit to you is... would you think being locked in a stressful concrete box is torture? It can be, it can get so bad that it is torture, if it goes on, and yet 2 million people in the US are...
  • mrmrok, on 12/21/2007, -4/+3So are their torture chambers better or worse than "ours"?
    • tankd0g, on 12/21/2007, -0/+2Al Quaida will (eventually) let you die. Americans will never let you go. Tough call.
  • Djharlock, on 12/21/2007, -5/+0Never trust Yahoo news, that's probably Bush's backyard.
  • Xill, on 12/21/2007, -7/+3There is over 1 million innocent iraquies killed, cant people grasp that number? This is just like Vietnam, wait until the American soldiers come back and tell the crimes they did. It's going to be the same.
    • thcobbs, on 12/21/2007, -0/+3Do you remember what happened AFTER America left?

      MILLIONS WERE SLAUGHTERED.
      • patpl22391, on 12/21/2007, -0/+2And re-educated by the communist government, I bet libs love that one.
  • spoering, on 12/21/2007, -2/+1"See? Their torture is worse than our torture. That means we're the good guys."
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