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Iraq veterans say that war crimes are encouraged by command.

news10now.com — "The killing of innocent civilians is policy," veteran Mike Blake said. "It's unit policy and it's Army policy. It's not official policy, but it's what's happens on the ground everyday. It's what unit commanders individually encourage." "These decisions are coming from the top down," veteran Matt Howard said.

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  • iraq, on 01/27/2008, -30/+102This should surprise no one if you look at who is in command.
    • DestroyFascism, on 01/27/2008, -9/+8No one is in command when the ***** hits the fan....it was spontaneous, they lost self control is it, that is what it was, yeah....*****! They all know what Leavenworth is, its full of fall guys.
    • aboutlogin, on 01/28/2008, -0/+1it is worth considering the "myth" of the bush administration's incompetence, that it is entirely possible that the way things are going in iraq is exactly the way they want it to be and that their fervent pursuit of torture and encouragement of war crimes is part of a plan to create a quagmire that will bury u.s. foreign policy for decades while corporate and banking interests achieve boundless profits with no end in sight from playing both sides. all the while allowing them to create crisis after crisis, stealing more and more of our liberties and accumulating more power to do whatever they want with impunity. what should scare you is the possibility that they know exactly what they're doing and that so far, everything is going to plan.
  • AbbyRoad, on 01/27/2008, -29/+60This has really just been the nature of modern warfare. You can't blame the soldiers this is the position they are put in. An interesting note about warfare in general since World War II is that 90% of the casualties are civillian...
    • Groovemaster, on 01/27/2008, -11/+49Soldiers are just as much in control of their own actions as anyone else.

      The fact that they chose to remain in total subservience to their owners is proof that they have as little concern for human life as those who issue the orders to kill innocent people.

      Personally, I'd rather be jailed for disobeying immoral, murderous orders and keep my conscience and integrity intact than spinelessly and gutlessly submit to corrupt authority.
      • Dundasbro, on 01/27/2008, -8/+24Let's be fair, military personell are conditioned to completely disregard the moral implications of their actions and just follow orders. A good soldier just follows orders, and they are driven away from individual thoughts and actions and are moved towards the mentality that one is just a member of the squad, not an individual. It is one of the reasons why hair is shaved and uniforms are worn, to remove a layer of individuality from the soldier.
        • byronne, on 01/27/2008, -2/+28Thus like the testimony given by captured Nazis at the Nuremberg Trials absolves them of responsibility? They were, after all, just 'following orders'.
          We (the US) are creating wars to ensure superiority and dominance. Have done so since the close of WWII. There is no conflict here other than we invaded another country.
          • smacksaw, on 01/27/2008, -4/+7In many instances, yes. The people on trial are the ones who give the orders. People who take orders are either in a contract to serve, or worse, inducted to serve against their will through conscription.

            Soldiers who are my ally or my enemy are simply doing the will of their superiors. What makes them good or bad is not which side they fight on. Who is good or right will be decided by the winner or by history. The only thing you can ask of a soldier is to serve with honour. That is what they should think about, and if they serve with honour they will do the best they can within the orders they are given.
          • reedatschool, on 01/27/2008, -2/+4There is no honor on the modern battlefield. Riding around in tanks and shooting at people in Toyota pickups is about as un-honorable as you can get. Fire and forgot missiles? You must of forgot about who you just blew up I guess. Pressing a button a hundred miles away and blowing up someone's home is a sad reminder of just how far from honor we have gotten.

            Guided missiles and misguided people - MLK
        • buckrogers1965, on 01/27/2008, -3/+18No. US soldiers are given ethics courses and are instructed on the Geneva convention. We are only required to obey lawful orders.
        • dildoolielly, on 01/27/2008, -0/+7until they become older, no longer boys, when they become real men, and have to live with their actions in age.

      • Fizban140, on 01/27/2008, -1/+14You are told to follow orders, but you are also told to not follow orders that seem obviously morally wrong (it is worded better though) so there is some choice.
        • grinchdec23, on 01/27/2008, -2/+2Yeah, the "some choice" they have is so easily decided upon :p
      • Xenufield, on 01/28/2008, -1/+1You wouldn't be in jail, you'd be a corpse.

        Insubordination on the field of battle can be punishable by death, usually on the spot.
    • caferrell, on 01/27/2008, -5/+25"This has really just been the nature of modern warfare." AbbyRoad, this war should be different. According to the administration we are there to bring democracy to the people of Iraq. We are not there to overthrow their governemnt, we did that four years ago.
      If our mission is to provide security so Democracy can flourish and what we are actually doing is to kill civilians, wouldn't it appear that we are working at cross purposes? Isn't this obviously futile?
      It is all so ridiculous and horrible because the real reason we are there is that the ***** monkeyboy won't admit he made a mistake.
      • Groovemaster, on 01/27/2008, -3/+35He didn't make a mistake at all.

        The mission was never to "bring democracy" to Iraq. That was just the excuse given to the gullible, easily led American people in order to get them to eagerly agree to have the majority of their tax dollars spent on an unnecessary, illegal, and immoral war.

        The Iraq war is, and always has been, about empire building and bringing profits to the military-industrial complex, and in that respect it has been a massive success for the corrupt businessmen who have infiltrated every level of the US government.
        • caferrell, on 01/28/2008, -1/+2Actually I think that you are wrong. Dubya is surrounded by advisers that are connected with Israel, the military-industrial complex and the oil industry. They are all interested in the perpetual War on Terror™, but apparently Dubya believes the stuff that he says. He is not the sharpest tool in the shed and he only hears one opinion whether it comes from Cheney or Wolfie or Rumsfeld.
    • Zenas, on 01/27/2008, -3/+26That's male cow dung. Military personnel swear an oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States and the Military Code forbids obedience to an illegal order. Even German soldiers during WWII were court martialed for killing innocent civilians, including Jews. Get a clue.
      • h3lx, on 01/27/2008, -1/+23I took that oath, I never aim in on anything I didn't intend to kill, never killed anyone who didn't deserve to die. Lots of folks aren't so lucky they can say that and you can bet your ass the killing of ambient personnel weighs heavy on their hearts. We aren't mindless indescriminate killing machines void of morals and immune to the horror. Decisions are made where every choice is engaging an enemy threaded into the civillian population. It's going to happen and it's going to be tragic, the only courses are to either continue down this seeming endless spiral or simply get the ***** out. The latter I believe would save over 100,000 lives and bring over 2,000,000 people back home, the former will ultimately destroy this nation.
        • triad203, on 01/27/2008, -1/+3Well said, h3lx. I respect and admire your fortitude, and perhaps just as importantly I appreciate your willingness to speak up about it without being shrill and strident. There may be hope for this country yet.
      • grinchdec23, on 01/27/2008, -2/+2Define "Illegal Order" Its not so easy as that .
    • quaxon, on 01/27/2008, -13/+18bull ***** *****!!! the troops, especially the ones who have signed up since the start of the war, deserve no support. this whole notion of "they are fighting for your freedoms" is so far from reality and straight propaganda from the government that has brainwashed nearly everyone into believing this rubbish. if you take a step back and look at it from a rational stand-point when was the last time our freedom was in jeopardy and the armed forces fought for us, winning our right to be free? last i remember it was the revolutionary war. all wars within every generation alive today has been fought in the interest of corporate elites/old money.
      the majority of the people who join the troops are either brainwashed into this lie of 'protecting freedoms' and the lie that we are the saviors of the world sent by god himself, or they are blood-thirsty jarheads just wanting to shoot some cool guns and legally kill people (this is especially true for the ones who have joined since the war started), service for the country and fighting for freedoms my ass. if the troops really were fighting for our freedoms then they would be staging a coup right here right now and getting that bastard, who has successfully been taking away all our rights, out of office. think about it, when was the last time Sweden or any other country truly more free "fought" for freedom. Until the troops support us i absolutely will not support them. ***** the troops, these murdering thugs arent protecting ***** but old money.
      • 11b1p, on 01/27/2008, -13/+4Why don't you stage a coup? I guess you want someone to do that for you. If you don't like our country, then kindly get the ***** out!
      • Akaricloud, on 01/27/2008, -9/+7Do you even know what this war is actually being fought over? Please atleast take the stance of someone who thinks the Iraq war is over getting oil, at least that argument has some credibility to it. You've just ranted on about nothing at all except for the fact you think the government has brainwashed everyone, despite the fact that (sorry I don't have specific figures so I won't make them up) a majority of the united states people do not support the Iraq war any longer. There is not a mass brainwashing conspiracy as you claim. Every day there are newspaper articles, internet pieces, public demonstrations etc. All by people who are not supporting the war. The population and you are not being silenced.
        I also love your selfish stand point. "We should not do anything unless our countries liberty is 100% in danger" who cares about going into a country which possibly had weapons of mass destruction (ref: digg article about Saddam bluffing about having WMD's to scare off Iran) and removing a tyrannical dictator which repressed science, education, female rights, political rights and basic Geneva convention standards to free a population.
        Yes, where the united states are right now in Iraq is a terrible place. There are at a point where they can either stay and attempt to remove corruption from the government, depower the insurgency movement and hope that in 15-20 years the Iraqi people have in place a government which is in THEIR best interests. Not a military group, religious group or foreign powers interests. OR the american military can pull out right now and the place goes back to the way it was. Run by a government which is not in place to serve the populations interests, and a religious sectarian group which maintains an "accept or die" stance to the entire population.
        You say the Americans are not fighting for American freedom. They are instead fighting for the freedom of an Iraqi population which has not known true freedom in a long time. I suppose you could refer to (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_S ... in order to find the last time Sweden was defending their own boarders. The point is though, there are some countries out there fighting and dieing to secure the freedoms of other people, not just their own.
        Also, I didn't quite understand what you were ranting on about the troops not supporting you. Also, can you give some specifics of freedoms being removed from you by the Bush administration? 10:1 your crying about tougher gun laws or something.
        PS. Where did you get your soap box from? Can you see alright from all the way up there? I love how you managed to condemn several countries, you profiled the entire military as blood-thirsty savages and a bunch of other crap.
        Take your own advice and take a step back and have a rational stand-point before you rant off on some ***** again.
      • saunders45, on 01/27/2008, -1/+4Yeah.... because WWII was fought for "Corporate Elites/Old Money." You sir, are stupid.
        • reedatschool, on 01/27/2008, -3/+3Then riddle this to me Batman, where did a collapsed German economy get all its money to build a new war machine? Don't be so naive.

          There was a reason we didn't join the Versailles Treaty. The corporate war machine had a different idea and it was called WWII.



    • Akaricloud, on 01/27/2008, -1/+3PS Quaxon. Did you ever hear of the vikings? Pillaging, raiding, slavery and the like. Those Swedes weren't always the neutral friends they are today.
      • ruley, on 01/27/2008, -1/+6The vikings were actually quite peaceful and one of the most advanced people of their time (the longship could out pace any ship by good measure) but they were a proud people. when christian missionaries came to their villages and the people refused to be converted, the missionaries had the armies of their home lands attack the vikings which lead to the vikings seeking revenge on those people. sadly, it was clergymen that wrote the histories so the vikings have been barbarized into these giant beasts.
    • dildoolielly, on 01/27/2008, -5/+5Wow, you're basically denying that U.S. Soldiers have any ethical or moral responsibilities at all? How pathetic is that? I can't believe 28 idiots agree with you! :( I bet those sniveling little cowards never served in combat either.

      Stay home and play "war games" on your computer and have your thoughts emailed to you because you're too stupid to understand real Democracy, too stupid to understand high treason and too stupid to find the fvcking recruiting office or a library.
      • grinchdec23, on 01/27/2008, -1/+2People are saying its largely ***** and the system is setup to make it very hard to define those responsibilities.
    • AllanX, on 01/27/2008, -0/+5American civilians have never experienced modern warfare firsthand. It's always been via news stories from far-flung lands.

      How many people in the US (other than the maybe 12% jingoists who are entirely insane) would support starting an optional war if it meant it would be fought in your neighborhoods, with your friends and family being killed every day and night in the crossfire, with enemy tanks rolling past your house, with bombs going off in your busses and malls and enemy soldiers kicking in your door and hauling your family off to secret prisons?
  • phnx0221, on 01/27/2008, -11/+110"It was my decision," Turner said. "I made it. Now I have to live with the fact I see someone's eyes screaming at me after I shot them."

    Reading that made my stomach turn. I can't imagine what it must be like to live with those images playing over and over in your head for the rest of your life. It's no wonder that these soldiers are returning home with PTSD, with large numbers committing suicide.

    That is horrible. I can't believe that there are people who are encouraging the deaths of innocent people. I can't believe that when we begin military operations in these countries, the first places we go for are those inhabited by civilians. I can't believe that we aren't taking more care to ensure that if and when the use of military action is called for, we aren't training the soldiers to be more careful with their violence. Violence should ONLY be used as a last resort, and should be planned carefully at that, so that you don't have the disgustingly encouraged killing of innocent people.

    Everyone in this war is expendable, it seems, they are disposable. From the innocent victims who lose their lives, to the soldiers who are sent there multiple times and are encouraged for various reasons to be suspicious of everyone, to think that everyone they encounter is a potential terrorist. When these soldiers come home, we completely ignore their needs, their physical, emotional, and psychological wounds, and leave them to get themselves back into a society that ignores them.

    Then we have the civilian victims, the families that are destroyed, the livelihoods that are taken from them, the people who are sent to military prison camps for years without trial, without charge, and seemingly, without hope for release.

    All this based on what? Lies. Corruption. Placement. Security of the superpower. Strategic resources, and money.

    We say, over and over, that we have to hold these people accountable. And we do. But, it takes more then just words to do so. It takes constant pandering, it takes constant pressure of our politicians, it takes constant discussion to get people inspired to do the right thing, and to be ***** pissed off at atrocities that are committed in their (our!) names. There are protests and gatherings organized for January 31st by World Can't Wait. Check out the the link, and go if there is one in your community. http://www.worldcantwait.net/

    We need to support the people in congress who are pushing for accountability. Kucinich is out of the Presidential race, but he's still up for re-election in Congress, as is Wexler. Support them. Find out who is running for election, or re-election in Congress in November, and look at who has stances that match your values. And if you don't know, call them and find out, and then get the word out and vote for them.

    We not only need a president who will get us out of this war (which may or may not happen), but we need a congress that will work to adequately represent their constituencies, who will stop blindly funding this war. But most of all, WE, as United States citizens, MUST get active in our politics, along with our criticisms of it.
    • johndi, on 01/27/2008, -18/+8There aren't any details, just non-specific accusations. Who told him to do it? By his own admission no one told him to do it. Even Turner’s claim that he committed a war crime lacks substance. What really happened? Who "encouraged" him? He isn't saying. The twisted emo bastard *felt* like that is what was expected of him. If this is true then Turner is a completely inhumane war criminal and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
    • Sinistrahd, on 01/27/2008, -2/+7I don't think you've ever served in the military if you truly believe that all orders must be given to be followed. I learned as early as boot camp that implication was sometimes just as important. In my case it was actually the only time I ever "stepped out of line" and had to do punitive PT - I did not bring my canteen to morning "Lite" PT because one of my three RDCs said we did not have to the week prior. After my dressing down by the RDC who had me do 8-counts, he pulled me aside and told me to always simply make sure I was doing the same thing as everyone else, because standing out, even if it is to follow orders, is not how the military works. Luckily, I was going into a non-combat and highly responsible field with my rating choice, and the rest of my career was entrusted to my own cognizance, but I doubt all the troops, sailors, soldiers, etc... who come in with ASVAB waivers and/or criminal records are entrusted in that way.
      • johndi, on 01/27/2008, -0/+5I was in and was labeled a "malcontent" because I didn't play that game. My favorite question when asked to do something I considered unethical "Is that an order, sergeant." In 9 3/4 years they never did make it an order. They'd say stuff like "It's a strong suggestion." You don't have to follow a suggestion, and I didn't. Sure they make it tough when you do that, but I can handle it. It's amazing how well it works.

        You're right the punitive PT thing sucks. That was going to happen whether you followed the rules or not. They divide and conquer in basic. They play mind games and make the rules so contradictory that you can't possibly win. I come from a military family, knowing that going in made it easier to deal with. Drill sergeant Moussau would order me to eat desert because I was underweight and drill sergeant Sanders would punished the entire platoon because someone ate dessert. Our platoon had the highest PT score in the 3/32cnd Infantry Bn, and I think the was the real reason they did it. I can't say it helped my popularity, but what the hell. That's a far cry from killing someone. They also teach you to be ethical and not to break the law or did you forget those classes?
      • SpacePoet, on 01/28/2008, -0/+1I love how you say, you've never been inthe military, and then tell us how you got a 'responsible' position. I take it, responsible, meant you weren't shooting people, yes?
    • buckrogers1965, on 01/27/2008, -2/+9}} I can't imagine what it must be like to live with those images playing over and over in your head for the rest of your life.

      Why do you think 120 young men who served in Iraq and Afghanistan are killing themselves every month? More Iraq veterans have suicided than have been killed in battle.

      They have looked into the darkness in the middle of the night.
      • reedatschool, on 01/27/2008, -1/+2The real psychological costs of war far outweigh any supposed good that will come from it. If we factored in all the REAL costs of war we would quickly learn it is the most destructive and unprofitable enterprise humanity has ever taken. We all suffer so a few can make a ***** of money. That is the sad reality of all modern warfare.
    • theelectricafro, on 01/27/2008, -0/+4Welcome to the New World Order.
  • notque, on 01/27/2008, -21/+109The invasion and occupation of Iraq is the supreme war crime of aggression as listed by Nuremberg.
    • RomanticStorm, on 01/27/2008, -5/+33I'm sure you already know that this conflict is not the first 'illegal' war that America has engaged...My Lai? Grenada?
      • MrESaulved, on 01/27/2008, -3/+26And the principle players are mostly the same then and now.

    • markgl, on 01/28/2008, -2/+1it wasn't illegal.
    • Xenufield, on 01/28/2008, -2/+0Except the Iraq war isn't a warcrime, as the US congress gave the president authorization to use military force there.

      And if you're going to try to refer to some bogus organization like the UN, just consider the ineffectiveness of said group without US assistance.
  • cassholio, on 01/27/2008, -61/+16I call ***** on this. Jesse Macbeth anyone? Wait for the evidence before you libtards start jumping to conclusions regarding our men and women in uniform.
    • understudy, on 01/27/2008, -6/+32Anyone who attaches -tards to a word instantly loses all respect and credibility.

      _
      • Mekun, on 01/27/2008, -18/+4Same with anyone who adds the word neo to the word con.
    • nblsavage, on 01/27/2008, -5/+10Aren't you jumping to a conclusion also?
    • coyoteblue, on 01/27/2008, -1/+1But what about thi...

      Oh right, sorry, it doesn't count.
  • GrandmaSheila, on 01/27/2008, -15/+74Gotcha, "*****" on the Haditha massacres, the targeting of public gatherings, like weddings, for strafing, the bombing of entire villages, or the routine house to house pillage of neighborhoods. Gunning down carloads of civilians doesn't count. Blackwater is just a crowd of good ol' boy opportunists. Torturing "prisoners" at Abu Ghraib, or the installation of torture in general as national policy is just peachy too. The use of depleted uranium weapons, which assuredly impacts civilians, and our own people also, that's just Buck Rogers cool weaponry.
    Iraq veterans for some time now have been returning with the same horrific testimony about being ordered to commit war crimes, but you call them "*****", and liars.
    I thought you neocons were all about "supporting the troops". Obviously, that dries up when they go public with the truth.
    • RobotCitizen, on 01/27/2008, -5/+26NeoCon support for the troops only applies to when they are shipping out, not when they come back.
  • x911oz, on 01/27/2008, -29/+1I know that I encourage this sort of thing at every opportunity to my serviceman cousins. it's just easier.
  • SeethisPass, on 01/27/2008, -9/+63My best advice to the world, Don't go to war. Don't ever start a war. Don't use aggression to justify war. Don't join an army lead by the insane.
  • OffPiste, on 01/27/2008, -24/+63I've been deployed to Iraq three times in this war. I think I would have encountered some of this at least once. I didn't.
    • digindrivefast, on 01/27/2008, -22/+3Tell Kevin, god, baby girl made it home for "leave".. She sez' it's a -hit hole, I believe Her. Pretty sure I would be ok to send McCane where she has to return to all too soon...
    • smacksaw, on 01/27/2008, -16/+24Though you would admit that your code of honour would prevent you from selling your fellow soldiers out. I was never in the military, but I went to military school and it was run by 100% ex-military and we did some *****-up ***** under our cadet code. I never admitted to jack ***** when I was still having to deal with people like that - and it wasn't ***** because we had a kid who stepped out of line and a few of the cadets murdered him and made it look like an accident and no one ratted.

      I dugg you up because you might be telling the truth, but real military are more serious than a stupid JROTC program, so if we'd do it...I think you'd do it as well, especially since we had the same links on the chain of command you did. Retired admirals, colonels, majors, enlisted men...
    • dinostabOMG, on 01/27/2008, -10/+9http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_mechanism
    • TastyBaconTreat, on 01/27/2008, -18/+38Exactly, I was there too. It doesn't mention this guy's rank. I'm not going to believe what some dip ***** private has to say. It's like some cashier from Taco Bell saying that he and everyone else spits in the food because one of his managers laughed at it once so it's safe to jump to the conclusion that everyone up to the CEO wants you to spit in people's food.

      We spent hours upon hours on the laws of war class before we went over there and everyone going over there knows the difference between right and wrong. WE ARE TAUGHT BY ARMY LAWYERS TO REFUSE ANY ORDERS THAT ARE UNLAWFUL!!!!

      It actually frustrates some guys that we spend so much time in the classroom when we could be out learning useful stuff like First Aid.

      I'm very anti-war but this guy in the article is just a dip *****.

      There is a reason this is on some ***** local news. Buried for retarded digg members always looking for a conspiracy.
      • ganymede2010, on 01/27/2008, -5/+13Question, if this isn't policy, why do we have such an astronomical amount of civilian deaths?
        • Beveridge89, on 01/27/2008, -7/+4Regardless of whether this is true or not, you shouldnt ignore the militants and islamists.
        • MoBillyAla, on 01/27/2008, -0/+6It has something to do with the fact the war is in the civilian living area homes,streets city's..etc(not out in open fields,desert etc..)
          Want proof? How many POS gangbangers are killing "innocent civilians" in cities right now? where is all this protest? This is a real war in our neighborhoods but instead since most people use drugs that they buy from gangs(or cia...lol)they look the other way...
      • ElAssoWipo, on 01/27/2008, -6/+7Did those lawyers tell you about the Geneva convention, the Charter of Human Rights and what constitutes an illegal war or a crime of war?

        Because all orders given about Iraq and once inside Iraq are unlawful.

        http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/images/0304/4c00e11 ...
      • demonicume, on 01/27/2008, -5/+7rank is irrelevant. my wife nd i are both E-5s - i figured i'd get that out there for you. no one refuses orders. if that were the case, we wouldn't have the torture cases that we do. i was ordered to do many things. this is not 'a few good men', you dont refuse orders. you don't want the article 15 neither do you want your fellow troops looking at your like youre a traitor. i never witnessed it. but i've seen some people go silently insane over stuff they 'did'.

        grow up.
    • spyd3rweb, on 01/27/2008, -13/+8You troll digg to much to have been deployed 3 times.
    • rodgerdodger5, on 01/27/2008, -1/+4OffPiste. I would like to know how you respond to Blogs like the one linked below. Isn't it possible that things have changed since the early deployments when they wanted us there. I am looking for answers and trying to understand. No disrespect to you as my father served in the service and I have family that is serving right now. This guy has a LOT of testimony on his blog and it is pretty hard to dismiss.

      http://armyofdude.blogspot.com/2007/08/stupid-***** ...
    • mabhatter, on 01/27/2008, -1/+3Like any large orgainzation, I think most of the troops are there to support the operations, build things, drive trucks, etc. The "interesting" jobs of looking for the "terroristas" is probably only a small number of troops, "hunter/revenge squads" constantly thrown into urban chases, and 2am raids, and encouraged to "stir the pot" so they can out the bad guys any time any american is threatened. That's right in line with how American Police and FBI operate stateside... except the Iraqis are tired of being shot in their sleep and are shooting back.

      It's the mistaken idea straight from the top that we can use guns to make them love us. When it doesn't work out for the local commanders then it becomes "shoot them all and let Allah sort them out". That eventually they'll shoot enough people to have "peace".... but when all they have is guns and bombs you can expect the results. I think everybody in politics was thinking there would be parades, and masses in the streets praising their "salvation" and everybody would live happily ever after. That's what happened in Japan and Germany after all... it's not like it took 20 years of occupation for those countries to be truly peaceful and self-sustaining, to stop the factions and insurgents. Fact is that the US public, nor the troops signed up for 20 years of occupation... That's what makes the engagement ill-planned and illegal.
    • SpacePoet, on 01/28/2008, -0/+1Well, you don't say where you served, you just might have been part of a 'cleaner' outfit. Also, it doesn't mean that it doesn't happen just because you haven't seen it.
  • mooseontheloose, on 01/27/2008, -34/+48This is why I don't support the troops. Why should I support a bunch of people who voluntarily signed up to go fight in an illegal war and then commit war crimes when they're there? ***** them.
    • Groovemaster, on 01/27/2008, -19/+59I agree 100%. ***** the irrational "support the troops" meme. I support people who have the balls to think for themselves.

      Any cause that requires you to unquestioningly obey an easily corrupted authority is not a cause worth pursuing.
      • MoBillyAla, on 01/27/2008, -8/+1umm no, the military trains you to follow lawful orders, to think on your own and report unlawful orders.
        Does it always happen? Does every fast food jockey wash their hands before fixing your food?
        Don't speak unless you know what your talking about, go protest the fast food joint conspiracy of serving you unhealthy food...You are dugg down..
        • grinchdec23, on 01/27/2008, -2/+2umm, you are also dugg down for trying to tiptoe around reality with some kind of BS.
    • Picaroon, on 01/27/2008, -25/+9That's like saying you don't support the civilian populace because all they do is steal and murder all day. Basically, you're a ***** tool.
    • phnx0221, on 01/27/2008, -8/+41There is a quote from Chomsky that I love.
      He says, "What does it mean if somebody asks you, Do you support the people in Iowa? Can you say, Yes, I support them, or No, I don't support them? It's not even a question. It doesn't mean anything. That's the point. The point of public relations slogans like "Support our troops" is that they don't mean anything. They mean as much as whether you support the people in Iowa. Of course, there was an issue. The issue was, Do you support our policy? But you don't want people to think about the issue."
    • potisreallygood, on 01/27/2008, -16/+9Sadly, saying "***** the trooops" is like saying "*****". It really freaks some people out to the point of instant violence.
    • JimmyDaSquealer, on 01/27/2008, -16/+16Yes, we all know that the entire military is made up of psychopaths who love to massacre innocent people.

      .... idiot.....
      • pintomp3, on 01/27/2008, -5/+11no, that's blackwater. the military has some, though that number has been going up since the lowered they lowered the standards.
    • buildbyflying, on 01/27/2008, -18/+30***** them? ***** you. I hate the war as much as you do. But there are a lot of reasons why people serve in the military -- honor being one of them. So how many soldiers do you know and talk to? And you probably think they're all idiots and stone cold killers? A lot of them are kids with chips on their shoulders. kinda like the one you're carrying around...
      • orxor, on 01/27/2008, -9/+21Honor is not killing innocent people in an illegal war, laying down your weapons for a good cause, not fighting for evil just because you were ordered to do so and facing whatever consequences may come as a result of your actions. Honor is NOT arbitrarily and thoughtlessly following orders that you believe to be wrong and if you believe them to be right, you're part of the problem.
      • trollhunter, on 01/27/2008, -9/+18Honor? HONOR?? *****, where is the honor? In blindly following orders? In killing? In invading another country for reasons based on lies and manipulation? In defence of the homeland?
        Defending what? How many Iraqi insurgents were in America when they signed up?

        "Kids with chips on their shoulders" shouldn't be given guns...
      • Rodalli, on 01/27/2008, -5/+5I don't want to hear the word "honor" used by anyone in this context again. What a load of *****. The west knows nothing about honor.
      • jessehadden, on 01/27/2008, -1/+4"Honor?!" What honor is there in pushing a button half-way around the world? What honor is there in beating up the emaciated kindergartners for their lunch money? If you want to talk about honor, talk about the brave men who risked everything by going AWOL rather than killing innocent people. They put the cause of life, and support for the rule of law, above their own personal interests. That's honor.
    • Zenas, on 01/27/2008, -14/+18If the troops would support the Constitution, I'd support the troops, until then ***** off. They could stop the war in a heart beat -grow some balls and just refuse to fight any longer for the Zionists.
      • pintomp3, on 01/27/2008, -6/+7but if you don't support giving billions of tax dollars to israel and don't want to risk your life for it's benefit, you are anti-semitic.
      • Beveridge89, on 01/27/2008, -4/+3No, hes just an idiot. You think Israel had anything to gain by the invasion of Iraq? It didn't fund terror, the evidence of WMDs was less conclusive than, say, Syrias. But thats right, it was all for Israel, who had such a strong dislike for Saddam, much greater than they did for Iran, who funds numerous militants in the region, or Syria, its friendly neighbour which doesnt recognise its right to exist.
        • grinchdec23, on 01/27/2008, -0/+2Of course they had nothing to gain, nothing but Oil and a real helping hand crushing there enemies.
        • Beveridge89, on 02/03/2008, -0/+1Saddam wasnt an important enemy. We've already established his military was ***** by destroying it.

          And oil? I think you're mixing conspiracy theories here. The oil companies told them to invade for oil. Israel did it for... well, I never totally understood that one, but it wasnt for oil anyway.
      • brandonb916, on 01/28/2008, -0/+0They'll just stop fighting and risk imprisonment when you stop paying your taxes to stop funding the war and risk the same.
    • dan222555, on 01/27/2008, -2/+3You disgust me.
    • SlipstreamBRO, on 01/28/2008, -0/+2Wow, your ignorance is astounding.
  • AriaStar, on 01/27/2008, -9/+31I saw my dad die. He died from a gunshot to the head by his own hand. I don't know if I could live if I were the one to pull the trigger on someone else. I'd go the way of my dad.
    • phnx0221, on 01/27/2008, -6/+26Wow. I'm sorry that such a ***** up situation caused such strife in your family. Really...my condolences.
      • AriaStar, on 01/27/2008, -1/+21Thanks. Enough time's past, and I've got awesome people in my life who wouldn't be here otherwise. Gotta look for the good that happens because of the bad. :)
  • mutiger, on 01/27/2008, -5/+23Wow. Msm ran this? Did hell just freeze over?
    • notque, on 01/27/2008, -0/+3It was a minor site, not a major one. It's actually surprising how open some of the minor sites are, but don't focus on the issues long term.
  • DesertDude, on 01/27/2008, -7/+17"Iraq veterans say that war crimes are encouraged by command"

    So they were just "following orders", right?
  • Picaroon, on 01/27/2008, -27/+16This is *****, has been debunked, and comes from the like of Jessie Macbeth. Now, should I bury this as inaccurate, or as a dupe? Decisions, decisions...
    • nblsavage, on 01/27/2008, -8/+17If debunked, show the links. Simple enough?
      • buckrogers1965, on 01/27/2008, -12/+5Oliver North says it didn't happen, that good enough for the neocons rgiht wing nuts.
  • PatNolan, on 01/27/2008, -22/+11Bullcrap.
    • karmaghost, on 01/27/2008, -4/+8Is that the family friendly version of "*****?" I'm telling mommy...
  • coheedcollapse, on 01/27/2008, -5/+17I met a guy on the PSN that was over there and he said as a result he can sleep only 3 hours a night at most. It's scary to hear what goes on over there. It really is.
    • MoBillyAla, on 01/27/2008, -1/+0Yeh on PSN everybody can be a Soldier...
  • mverta, on 01/27/2008, -23/+7Buried for being bullcrap, Dugg for helping us identify the idiotic, redundant bags of protoplasm who fall for this ***** so we can eventually phase them out of the gene pool.
    • corpuscollossus, on 01/27/2008, -4/+11This exact policy was prevalent throughout the latter stages of the Vietnam conflict, and has been part of virtually every major conflict of the past 50 years. Look at East Timor, look at El Salvador, look at Kosovo. Why would this one be any different?
  • corpuscollossus, on 01/27/2008, -6/+43Oh look, it's Vietnam
    • mabhatter, on 01/27/2008, -3/+2This is nothing like Vietnam. We had total control of the country in a matter of weeks. Contrary to what the leaders want you to think, the outside influence is not that great from Iran or Syria...everybody else is supposed to be "allies". even if it was, we have full military control of Iraq and should be securing their boarders.. if we can't do that, what the hell is our army doing.

      In Vietnam, we were fighting China by proxy...but not allowed to follow troop movements into China or elsewhere.. We were also fighting AGAINST the southeast Asian people that wanted imperial european colonies out of their country... In Vietnam we were actually fighting AGAINST Democracy because they were going to choose socialism instead of capitalism.

      Vietnam was like Afghanistan in the 80's, where we were on the other side supplying the fighters under the table against Russia, but neither the US or Russia would admit it was a Cold War turf war.

      We're in Iraq to "fix" their politics because our leaders don't like it when other countries play hardball, or use non-monetary ways to obtain power. It's about making Iraqi's love us, and run their country in a corporate friendly (note I didn't say democratic) way. We aren't repealing the laws against women, or the laws against trade unions, etc, etc... we're just installing a western friendly govt that we can make business deals with, and won't step on the saudis too much. It's not Vietnam because most of the Iraqis are ambevolently to us, "new master, same as the old", we're not loosing nearly the troops we lost in Vietnam, it's just that we should be DONE by now after 6 years of occupation and a new govt in charge. People expect Bush to get the job done WITHIN his presidency...and get the troops home. not to leave the mess for somebody else.
      • reedatschool, on 01/27/2008, -0/+1Will Iraqi's love us before or after we kill them? I hope the dead children enjoy their new found democracy that amounts to US and Blackwater troops running around their country killing and locking up every young man.
    • Xenufield, on 01/28/2008, -0/+0People would have to have bought into the propaganda from democrats for Iraq to have been like Vietnam. However it's impossible in this day and age to regulate the information like back then, and like the war or not, US forces are slowly pacifying insurgency forces along with the growing iraqi guard, while cutting down foreign fighters that are helping the insurgents.
  • ritter99, on 01/27/2008, -9/+15but the problem is: the leaders do not kill anybody. Did Hitler kill a single man?? Did someone of the Bush-clan commit murder??? I guess the answer is: No. It's people who kill people.

    "Had no other joice", "Command from top down", "I have to support my family". ***** those silly excuses.
    • Ursapater, on 01/27/2008, -0/+3So what you're saying is that the Bush administration and it's policies are blameless? Yes, the people on the ground pulling the trigger have responsibility that they can not deny, but their leaders are even more to blame. They perpetuate and encourage impressionable young people to commit acts of evil while pretending they had nothing to do with it.
      "Men of reason, not of rhyme, keep the spoils and share your crime" Toy Machine -"The Last Plane Out"
    • stoanhart, on 01/27/2008, -0/+2I'm pretty sure Hitler killed a few people himself. Disobedient officer who didn't do his job? We can't have this kind of dissent in our ranks! Bang!
      • ritter99, on 03/18/2008, -0/+1I read in history books and seen in hollywood movies that this happened. Must be awful hard to stay true and let them kill you (instead of you killing others). Better not go to the army at all or make a runner while it's still time.
  • Lobstermagnet5, on 01/27/2008, -9/+33I personally know two marines who have served two deployments in Iraq each, and they both have said that killing civilians is commonplace. I don't know if it's orders coming from the top, but soldiers who do kill innocent Iraqis are not disciplined.

    Please don't cry ***** just because you support the war. Weather you agree with the war or not, this is a serious issue and it's actually happening.
    • RobR7, on 01/27/2008, -2/+4Amazing, the tolerance being displayed for the individuals who admit to the crimes but the overwhelming condemnation against any establishment (military, government, etc.) for the same crimes. Always the problem with social liberals, the individual is never at fault for their own actions its always someone else's responsibility (society, etc...). If we expected personal responsibility and made individuals unforgivingly accountable maybe the society and its orders could benefit? Hmmm...
  • aceakm, on 01/27/2008, -3/+10Just because it's a "policy" doesn't mean you have to take part in it. So maybe it is true, even so, they don't have to.
  • goldwish, on 01/27/2008, -6/+9
    And this surprises who? Honestly. Anyone with a ***** brain in the U.S. realizes that anything the government says we didn't do is indeed what we DID do. This goes for torture and everything on down from there. Disgusting.
  • chillfaktor, on 01/27/2008, -1/+10Its the game of responsibility. Same happened in WWII. Same happened with apartheid in south africa. Same is happening now in iraq. Watch the movie "In My Country" (and maybe you'll find out what ubuntu really means)
    • DodgeCity, on 01/27/2008, -5/+2ubuntu has a long way to go unless you too enjoy figuring out senseless, meaningless problems.
      • reedatschool, on 01/27/2008, -0/+1The spirit of community is strong and vibrant around the world. It is our politicians and representatives that don't seem able to get it, not the people.
  • Drewsky415, on 01/27/2008, -8/+10Wow! Most of these comments are unbelievably disgusting...I don't know what else to say...
    • psitech, on 01/27/2008, -11/+7You must not hang around digg very much. The bunch here are fighting the war at home. I think it's obvious to see the side they are pulling for. They leap at the chance to denigrate their own country and the men and women in uniform. It's a pretty normal thing around here really.
      • grinchdec23, on 01/27/2008, -1/+4Yeah, its not like the people should have an opinion on their own country... and support it entirely all of the time.
      • phnx0221, on 01/27/2008, -1/+2Because being patriotic means blindly supporting a country, a flag, a military, and a government that acts only in its own interest, instead of in the interest of the people? Do I have that right? For me, patriotism means appreciating the place where I was born, but questioning the policies of a government to make sure that everyone who lives here has a fair shot at happiness, without oppression. It means making sure that we follow the same rules and standards that we set to everyone else, and in fact, even more so, since we are in fact, the world's largest super power. That means having a respect and love for all of mankind, and living up to the worlds and ideals of international law, of human law, and of that sometimes inconvenient law that says "do unto others as you would have done unto you."

        But yeah, if you want to be upset about that, and say that we are doing something wrong because we don't blindly support our country in everything it does, you are certainly entitled to that opinion.
  • marffa, on 01/27/2008, -14/+3
    I saw my dad die. He died from a gunshot to the head by his own hand. I don't know if I could live if I were the one to pull the trigger on someone else. I'd go the way of my dad.
  • Zenas, on 01/27/2008, -11/+12The war is being fought for the Zionists and Zionists think non-Jews are cattle - read the Talmud - so what do you expect?
    • Beveridge89, on 01/27/2008, -6/+4Ill bet you've done tonnes of research to come to that conclusion, right? Not just read it on some ***** 'anti-zionist' website? Religious texts areb all about how you read them.
      • reedatschool, on 01/27/2008, -0/+1The Zionists are whack jobs and I wouldn't defend them.
    • ChristPissed, on 01/27/2008, -0/+16You have a valid point. Remember how zionist Henry Kissinger referred pointedly to military men as "dumb, stupid animals to be used" as pawns for foreign policy ( http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Henry_Kissinger ).
      • Beveridge89, on 01/27/2008, -3/+1Hes deliberately misrepresenting a religious text. Thats a valid point?

        Kissinger is an arsehole. He doesn't represent all Jews, and I'll bet theres a fair amount of Zionists who reject you using him to judge them all. Again, is strectching the words of one man to try and mark a whole group a valid point?
  • DodgeCity, on 01/27/2008, -5/+13Murder has even become a bureaucracy. That's a sign of the end - when those who commit the sin can't even be held accountable in their own mind.
    Hitler and Mussolini were just "good", "TOUGH AS NAILS" soldiers; they too had a good excuse to murder innocence. Someone convinced their little minds that to do wrong to themselves on the otherside was actually a good thing. They learned to believe satan - they learned to seperate.
    If they believed themselves to be monsters they would have never been.
  • ddigby, on 01/27/2008, -5/+16"Now, it is morally ambiguous to wrap yourself in the flag and to wear those ribbons. And it borders on moral cowardice. I don’t mean to sound stern; well, yes I do, but what does the Nuremberg declaration say? There’s no superior order that can cancel your conscience. Nations will be judged by the standard of the individual. Look, the President makes choices. The Congress makes choices. The Chief of Staff makes choices. The officers make choices. All those choices percolate down to the individual trooper with his finger on the trigger. The individual private with his thumb on the button that drops the bomb. If that trigger doesn’t get pulled, if that button doesn’t get pushed, all those other choices vanish as if they never were. They’re meaningless. So what is the critical choice? What is the one we’ve got to think about and get to? And, friends, if that trigger gets pulled–if that button gets pushed, and that dropped bomb falls–and you say I support the troops, you’re an accomplice. I don’t want to be an accomplice; do you?

    And I don’t want to dehumanize anyone. I don’t want to take away anybody’s humanity. Humans are able to make moral decisions–moral, ethical decisions. What do we tell the trooper who pulls the trigger, or the soldier who turns the wheel that releases oil into the Persian Gulf, that they’re not responsible–just following orders, just doing their duty, have no choice–bypassing them, making them a part of the machine, we deny them their humanity, their responsibility for their actions and the consequences of those actions. Look, I’ve been a soldier. I don’t want any moral loophole. I need to take personal responsibility for my actions. And if we don’t learn how to do this, we’re going to keep on going to war again, and again, and again."

    -Bruce "Utah" Phillips
  • amirman, on 01/27/2008, -19/+7i heard a story that a bunch of marines would piss in waterbottles and give them to little kids and say it's juice and just laugh at them trying to drink it. i also was told by a soldier that he knew or other soldiers who would sneak off the ship at night to go kill and rape women. every time i see a soldier i want to vomit. i know we have good people in the military but i think they're rare.
    • ColoradoCNC, on 01/27/2008, -4/+9You obviously don't know anything about the military in that case. But feel free to keep believing random made-up stories!
      • amirman, on 01/27/2008, -2/+5SOLDIERS that had just come back from Iraq and Afghanistan told me these stories, it's amazing how people are digging me down and you assume they're made up just because it goes against the happy thoughts you want to have about our hononorable men and women in uniform. The truth is they are trained to murder people and have no remorse for it. they obviously end up having a lot of mental problems because of it.
      • reedatschool, on 01/27/2008, -0/+2It happens, and you should be ashamed of yourself for denying it. NO, not every soldier is a bloodthirsty murderer, but to deny some are is just plain stupid.
  • theoceanmusic, on 01/27/2008, -8/+23Anyone who has a friend that served in Iraq knows about this...sad thing is that is alot of folks.
    • 11b1p, on 01/27/2008, -6/+4I served in Iraq. I have lots of friends that were there. I have never heard anyone whisper boast brag or even hint that we were killing civilians on purpose there.
      • MoBillyAla, on 01/27/2008, -3/+2At least someone with sense on here, speaking the truth dugg you up, 94A38...
    • Xenufield, on 01/28/2008, -0/+0Funny, I have friends in all branches, mostly Marines, and of the 9 that are in the ME currently, none have ever mentioned seeing 'warcrimes' or other ludicrious claims people treat as common.

      Infact, the worst thing any of them saw was one saw a friend from basic get killed by a roadside bomb. That ***** with his head more than any firefight he had been in.
  • williamP, on 01/27/2008, -14/+10"Anti-war group says war crimes are 'encouraged'"?

    These guys are unhinged. But they're actually helpful in discrediting anti-war loonies.

    Thanks!
  • atralyx, on 01/27/2008, -13/+7Remember , we are humans before we are american or british or sand *****.....ummmmmm anyway yeah they are still people to , human , they would live and let live as well if they didn't have propaganda about america constantly told to them and if their superiors didn't think the same and insist on doing things a certain way

    whatever , point is you may be american , but first your human , at least until you decide taking a innocent life for your flag is a fine way to go
    then your worthless
    • ronpaul20008, on 01/27/2008, -1/+7actually , the guatanemo inmates who've been there for years, tortured and held without cause.. their case was thrown out of court because they were considered non-human, or sub-human.. or whatever term they used for it. USA : Neocons :Muslims = Germans: Nazis : Jews
      • atralyx, on 01/27/2008, -1/+4I see you easily missed my point , the goverment is inhuman , we shouldnt be
    • natchiketa, on 01/27/2008, -4/+1buried and reported for lame racist language. spread the word: only ignorant pieces of chicken-fried crap use the term 'sand-n***er'
  • ColoradoCNC, on 01/27/2008, -15/+26Utter BS. Are there some soldiers in Iraq who acting disgustingly? Without a doubt. But for this...person...to claim that it is government policy is absolutely insane. As a person with a 200+ year military history in my family, not to mention several friends currently serving in both Iraq and Afghanistan, I can't help but be filled with disgust by such comments. I don't care what one's political views are (liberal independent, personally), buying into such blatant fabricrations does a huge dishonor to the men and women who are serving in the name of the US.

    Disagree with the politicians all you like, but to spread such lies about the brave men and women who are willing to put their lives on the line, even for an ill-advised conflict like Iraq, is just disgusting.
    • demonicume, on 01/27/2008, -7/+4your comment is stupid. having 200 years of military history in your background is irrelevant. both my wife and i, my sister and 2 brothers served in the desert. my father went back in the 90s - so my lineage trumps yours in this stupid pissing contest. no one said it was government policy, it was unit policy. if you've ever been forced to walk into a hostile and armed village of 2000 to hunt down 5 people who may or may not be there, you'd shoot many civilians too. thats why we now call them enemy combatants.
      • MoBillyAla, on 01/27/2008, -2/+1if there are 2000 armed villagers you kill the 5 you were sent after and the ones attacking you, Iraqi civilians are allowed to own a hunting rifle that doesn't make them a target..but you would know this and your wife and 2 brothers etc...but its too easy to jump on the hate wagon and cry foul
    • SpacePoet, on 01/28/2008, -0/+1Umm, it's the soldiers making the accusation. Who else has the right or duty to do that?
  • psitech, on 01/27/2008, -19/+13Once again lefties are getting excited about the chance to down their own county and their men and women in uniform. I'm sure you will all start a new topic and apologize if this turns out to be false. I've been on digg for quite some time now and it's pathetic to see that some of you would side with America's enemies at the drop of a hat. I have to remind myself that most of you are like the morons that spit on our soldiers coming back from Vietnam. A lot have said that this war is actually like Vietnam and I agree that this is true because that war was won in Vietnam but lost at home by the same type of scum as most of you.
    • ColoradoCNC, on 01/27/2008, -3/+10You do realize that using the term "lefties" makes you come across as ignorant, don't you? I'm a left-leaning unaffiliated voter myself, but I realize this is a ***** article...as I'm sure most even moderately intelligent people would do, regardless of their political affiliation. I know that demonizing those who don't agree with your views may be appealing, but please don't be foolish enough to believe that one party or the other holds the monopoly on truth. If you disagree with someones beliefs, that's fine. But do so in an intelligent manner instead of just spouting off vitriol and making yourself come across as just another uneducated moron.
      • psitech, on 01/27/2008, -6/+5Thanks for the reply. It's nice to see a "lefty" around here that is not clinically insane. I know most liberals would not attempt to side with our enemies, but it does have to give you pause that most of the people that would make that choice are indeed on the left.
        • ColoradoCNC, on 01/27/2008, -2/+6I'm not sure that it's even as much a political thing as it is an anti-establishment thing. I'm sure that if the political left were in such a strong position as the political right had been over the past decade, you'd see a lot of asinine opinions coming from the far right. That being said, there are definitely some real wackos on the ultra left. That's one of the reasons I left the Democratic party. I'm all about a lot of the more liberal social initiatives that the Democratic party espouses, but some of the ideas that come out from the radical left just confuse me. I think it's situations like this that are behind the increasing move of Americans towards a more centrist viewpoint. The fringes are just too insane.
    • dildoolielly, on 01/27/2008, -1/+6IDIOT CONBABLE TALKINGPOINTS TRANSLATED:

      "LIBS ARE TRAITORS" = Liberals tell the truth about Bush.

      "LIBS HATE AMERICA" = Liberals don't lie for Bush.

      "LIBS LOVE TERRORISTS" = Liberals won't lie about Iraq.
  • bingobongony, on 01/27/2008, -7/+10And of course they would KNOW if it came from the top down...riiiiight!
    Right there that should have told anyone with a brain that this is nothing but a ***** hit piece.
    • Crotchmonster, on 01/27/2008, -4/+4Everyone gets a memo from the president himself saying to kill as many innocents as possible! At least that's what these people WANT you to think...
    • buckrogers1965, on 01/27/2008, -2/+4Like all those fake stories about the government torturing people? That was denied. They even put enlisted people in prison for following torture orders that came strait from the white house.
      • bingobongony, on 01/28/2008, -0/+1Yeah...that totally unrelated incident PROVES that this is true! Now every wack allegation from someone who is not in the chain of command at all must be taken as a verified FACT!
        You world must suck.
  • hotdrop, on 01/27/2008, -5/+9Yes there are stupid assholes in the military, just like there are stupid assholes everywhere else. That doesn't mean that there is a systematic policy of killing civilians it just means that rouge soldiers are slipping through the cracks and ***** it up for their fellow soldiers that are out there doing their job well.
    • pintomp3, on 01/27/2008, -5/+7given our propensity for killing civilians, it hardly seems like it's just a few rouge soldiers. we don't even keep a count of how many we kill, that's how much their lives mean to us.
  • mal1964, on 01/27/2008, -9/+8I called the same news web site, and told them over the phone that I can turn invisible. We did a short interview over the phone, he said it will be done in time to make tomorrows edition.
  • Crotchmonster, on 01/27/2008, -7/+27I've only been in two years (USAF, AD), and all this is laughable. It is drilled into your head so many times what is a legal order, and what isn't, there should be no doubt in the mind of any competent person. YOU DO NOT KILL NON-COMBATANTS!! They put their weapon down, they are a non-combatant, they have no weapon, they are a non-combatant, simple as that. Your CO can't tell you to go kill someone just for the lulz of it, this is total BS. You can't play the stress card either because that's just the easy way out, it was probably just a mistake, and you'd rather shoot someone you think is gonna shoot you, regardless of if they have a means to do it or not. No one wants to die.
    • mal1964, on 01/27/2008, -3/+6Its nice to have a believable person that knows the truth, thanks for your comment.. Me Ive never been and don't really know what daily life is over there. but in a story like that, If I listen to the whole song and not just the good parts. Its becomes simple math and very easy to figure out it isn't true.
      • grinchdec23, on 01/27/2008, -0/+1Really not sure wtf you are trying to say, try again.
        • mal1964, on 01/28/2008, -0/+1Because its not propaganda. all you understand, is the propaganda you're trying to sell.
  • timbo458, on 01/27/2008, -15/+8WAR IS A CRIME! THE ENTIRE BUSH ADMINISTRATION IS CRIMINAL!
  • Ultra99, on 01/27/2008, -8/+4*If* this is indeed somebody's "unofficial" policy, it only goes to show how out of touch some people in the military are when it comes to tactics vs. strategy.

    They may think they are winning the street wars in Baghdad this way but they are fast losing the media war, have long ago burned through all the pro-war gung-ho patriotic public opinion that supported their presence there, and soon they're going to burn through the public respect for the military which sets their budget and pays their bills every month the month once the government changes.

    And who gets screwed? The grunt and the Iraqi civillians, that's who. Disgusting.
  • pigfister, on 01/27/2008, -6/+6and ppl didn't know this!
    • buckrogers1965, on 01/27/2008, -1/+5They know. They just refuse to believe.
  • Beveridge89, on 01/27/2008, -3/+11If you were given those type of commands, wouldn't you be going to the congress or senate or whatever you Americans do rather than an anti-war group? That seems like looking to preach to the choir and avoid tough questions, so im going to take this story with skepticism until he does the right thing with it.
  • IHateRegisterin, on 01/27/2008, -1/+4This just can not be true as stated. The military already gets world media attention when civilians are killed as collateral damage, let alone the occasional event when civilians are killed because they are mistakenly identified as insurgents. If this so called unofficial policy actually existed it would be very obvious and the media would be all over it.

    Bush is a clinical psychopath but the vast majority of our military in Iraq are not.
  • freezeout, on 01/27/2008, -4/+5This is what military occupation does to armies and sadly it is unavoidable because armies are built to fight other armies, when they fight a civilian population everything falls apart. If nothing is done soon, the atrocities committed in Vietnam will be dwarfed by the new atrocities of Iraq. But unlike the Vietnamese, the Iraqis NEVER forget and revenge will become their top priority. when the sons of the dead fathers grow up they will make sure Americans pay for what happened, and it won't be pretty.
  • dorasmen, on 01/27/2008, -3/+4"War Is Old Men Talking and Young Men Dying" an apt quote if ever there was one. As for the killing of innocents...it's true its been going on for a while. In fact there's a documentary called " The Ground Truth" (I think that's the title) which highlights the breakdown process that USA army recruits are subjected to during training such that they no longer consider human beings as human but targets to be destroyed; be they civilians or otherwise.

    The documentary came out in 2005 and covers the experiences of some Iraq war veterans. I particularly remember one conversation between one soldier and his commanding officer that went as follows (paraphrasing):

    Soldier to officer "Ahh..today was a terrible day...a terrible day sir!" Officer "Why's that soldier?" Soldier "We killed fifty innocent civilians today sir!" Officer " No soldier. That's a great day...you killed fifty insurgents!"

    Excerpt paraphrased from the documentary: The Ground Truth. About 70 years ago there existed a gang that extolled such ideology "that the end justified the means whatever the cost..and that they were always in the right!"
    That Gang Was Called THE NAZI PARTY

    In summary for those who still deny that any wrong doing ever went down and is still going down in Iraq by Coalition Forces perhaps your sentiments are not far removed from those of Nazi Butcher Adolf Eichmann who at his tribunal proclaimed that (paraphrased):

    "I'm proud and happy to go to my death with the blood of 7 million Jews on my hands". Or maybe those in denial are simply too scared to face the demons that would otherwise haunt them at night so they continue killing the innocent and justifying the righteousness of it all to themselves... IN TIMES OF TROUBLE THOSE WITH CONSCIENCE FIND SLEEP ELUSIVE THOSE WITHOUT LACK ALL SELF DOUBT!
    • ColoradoCNC, on 01/27/2008, -1/+2Comparing our soldiers to the Nazis shows just how ignorant you are.
  • stark23x, on 01/27/2008, -6/+10Every few months someone trots one of these "The troops are all murderers" stories out and every time it turns out they were lying, or exaggerating in the extreme.

    Funny how that part never ends up making it to digg. Just the accusations, never the corrections afterward.
  • trevor98, on 01/27/2008, -6/+5Any belief in this story over the morality of thousands of American youth says more about the believer than anything else. You are looking for absolutely any straw to confirm your anti-American/anti-Bush world-view. You believe this one activist with a sensational accusation over the thousands of young Americans that have served in Iraq that don't make the same claim. You believe that those thousands are willing to commit atrocities and stand mute- these are your brothers, sisters, cousins, children, parents, aunts, uncles, friends, etc who are supposedly committing these war crimes and you believe they are capable in mass numbers. I am saddened that so many of my countrymen believe that of my former comrades (a true cross section of Americans).
    • 00z003, on 02/18/2008, -0/+1millions dead in vietnam......... what an atrocity.
  • buckrogers1965, on 01/27/2008, -1/+5Duty. Honor. Country.

    Sometimes in order to serve those three highest ideas, you must refuse to serve those who seek only to bring money and power to themselves and their cronies, no matter what the cost to others.

    Because in the end there is just you. Sitting alone in the dark in the middle of the night.
  • masterofthebus, on 01/27/2008, -3/+3why would not american use their money to help hungry people on africa? or to buy medicine for those people that can't?
    because uncle Sam says that war is good! it makes the war industry grows up. all the taxpayers money are used on war! thanks for the recession! you deserve it!
  • RobR7, on 01/27/2008, -2/+1If he truly is taking responsibility for his actions then he knows where to check himself into (bars or padded walls, whichever...) but instead he's trying to exonerate himself and others by claiming "unofficial" orders. Real horse *****. Worse even is that this delusional bleeding heart group supporting them rather forgive the real criminals in their mist and hate their country and themselves instead.
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