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102 Comments
- aussiejan, on 05/09/2009, -1/+71And I thought it was something when I was allowed to use a calculator for my Calculus exam.
- Eurynom0s, on 05/10/2009, -1/+54I've long believed that open-book tests, or being allowed to bring a "crib sheet", or something along those lines, should always be allowed. As one of my professors who allowed the latter once said, "I'm more interested in seeing if you can use the material than remember a formula. Besides, in the process of making the crib sheet you might wind up drilling everything into your head and wind up not needing it anyways." He told us a story about making a cheat sheet, and bringing the wrong one to an exam, but he didn't realize until he handed in the exam because he remembered everything pretty well just from the process of making the cheat sheet.
Other good reasons:
1) The people who take this an an invitation not to study are still going to fail.
2) In the real world, you go look something up if you can't remember it. If you're working on a telescope project, your supervisor isn't going to dock you pay because you didn't look up the info you needed; if you DON'T and you screw it up, you'll get fired. - manzplan, on 05/09/2009, -8/+49for some things sure.. but for others NO WAY.. I dont want my doctor graduating thanks to the internet.
- ATL, on 06/20/2009, -1/+32[citation needed]
- blake990, on 05/10/2009, -2/+30And then you realize later on that a doctor gets most of his information from other doctors; and the internet and books; and uses technology to work on you.
Wait until doctors are replaced by machines. - JanTik, on 05/10/2009, -1/+27Having the internet at your fingertips is not cheating - it's just a different version what we used to call an "open-book exam". I remember well that those open-book exams were much harder - because they tested our level of understanding of the subject matter, rather than our ability to recall facts.
Regarding your Wikipedia statement - several comparisons between Wikipedia and other encyclopedias have revealed that that Wikipedia is just as accurate as the best of them.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0MJG/is_2_8 ... - LacY, on 05/10/2009, -2/+15I atually did use that as an answer in my Oral defense to qualify for the PhD program. They kept asking what I'd do in a situation, and I had no clue, so finally I just said "I'd probably google it...". They laughed, I passed. :)
- xexx, on 05/10/2009, -0/+12Wikipedia links to all the sources it quotes, it's a perfectly credible source when you go the extra step to verify the information.... It's probably far more accurate than a lot of books on the subject.
- SwiftKick34, on 05/10/2009, -6/+15Sorry, having information immediately available--in your head--is a valuable trait.
Further endorsing academic dependency upon the Internet is a not a good thing, even if it is a natural occurrence already. - anocka, on 05/10/2009, -0/+8This is an interesting idea, but the tech savvy will always find a way to circumvent the systems they will put in place to prevent cheating.
- LonesomeFighter, on 05/10/2009, -0/+8when one leaves school and has to do their job, they won't know all the answers and will use the internet to find their solution and get the job done. It makes sense to allow students to use the internet during tests.
I know at my college majority of the teachers give their tests as take home tests because they believe it is stupid to memorize stuff to just forget it later, and they expect us to use the internet and other sources. - eihwaz, on 05/10/2009, -0/+8I think this should remain "officially forbidden". Cheating is an art, you can't let everyone do it. If you're smart enough to do it without them noticing, then you're smart enough to pass the exam the way you want. Just like the way we've done these years, using wifi, intranets or mobile connections. They should just leave this stuff to the geek minority who knows how to do it "right".
- brokencode, on 05/10/2009, -3/+11It's not just research. It's analyzing the situation and coming up with an appropriate treatment. That all takes years of experience to master.
- thorstrongstone, on 05/10/2009, -3/+10This is great, as I have been answering all of my test questions with "Google that *****."
- 64705, on 05/10/2009, -0/+7Right there behind those trees... don't you see it?
- uriman, on 05/10/2009, -2/+9I find open-book exams much tougher than regular exams especially in CS. You also waste a lot of time if you don't know your stuff and have to look up everything.
- horseradish2, on 05/10/2009, -0/+7Im always amazed at the new levels of arrogance one can find on digg. Apparently you all are experts on medical education, how its obtained, and how powerful a role technology plays in it. With such advanced knowledge of how medicine works its disappointing you all must practice medicine in a checklist manner as every doctor is specifically trained to realize that no disease presents itself as a searchable symptom list. Amazing how there's no world peace with everyone on digg knowing everything.
- askantik, on 05/10/2009, -0/+6And? In the "real world," you have access to the Internet. Traditional exams do not prepare you for the real world, except for the 0.0001% of the times in your life when your boss says, "You must answer these 100 questions without using a calculator or any reference material, and you have 50 minutes!" Yeah, right.
- avataros, on 05/10/2009, -8/+14Remember students, when in doubt, the answer from teh internetz is always one of "4chan," "Two Girls, One Cup," "Goatse," or "Pedobear." Bonus points if you do it for teh lulz.
- DannyDriffs, on 05/10/2009, -2/+8Where is the line between memorization and instant information drawn in higher education?
- LacY, on 05/10/2009, -1/+6I fully agree. I also found that open-book or open-note tests generally tended to be harder, so you really ended up needing to know (or have a very good idea where in your notes) the information to be able to complete the test. In the real world, you either use some type of information often enough that you memorize it eventually, or you use it infrequently enough that memorizing it for a test isn't going to stick around much longer than the test.
I always hated having to remember chemical structures, etc for things like the Krebs/TCA cycle. The important thing is that you know what's going on in general, and can ID the molecules involved if they come up in the future--not that you know the absolute nitty-gritty of the chemical structures, which is only going to be useful (or memorable) if you actually work on them in the future. - Jon211, on 05/10/2009, -0/+5Teachers could really have some fun by editing wikipedia articles on the subjects of the exams!
- benologist, on 05/10/2009, -2/+6It's far more than an open book exam. Open book exams you're limited to a couple of books, the internet is essentially the sum of human knowledge and anyone competent at googling can find pretty much any answerable question expressed in everything from the most simple to scientific language.
- MrInfallible, on 05/10/2009, -3/+7The doctors had no idea what was wrong until I searched on the internet. The internet is a powerful tool in medicine, doctors will never be able to know the symptoms for every disease. Many aspects of medical training is hands on and not from books anyway.
- askantik, on 05/10/2009, -0/+4"Nothing is difficult when you have Google sitting on your exam table."
So you can do calculus-based physics, design a safe bridge, or know how to culture "C. botulinum" without killing yourself all from what you learned on Google? Be my guest. - ewsherm, on 05/10/2009, -0/+4Id fail cause id just surf digg the whole time...
- FrederikNS, on 05/10/2009, -0/+4Info for you: Here in Denmark, where this is to be tried out, we have a much tougher grading system than you do, I'm currently at the Technical University of Denmark, and to even be able to pass an exam 50% of the entire exam should be perfectly correct, to score a top grade, you would have ho have 100% perfectly correct. Judging by the international student I meet on campus, most agree that just about every part of Danish education is much tougher.
Until just 2 years ago, you couldn't even get the top grade if you learned everything in the curriculum perfectly, you had to actually go outside of curriculum, and perform better than expected (that means you would have to obtain further knowledge about your field than your teacher would teach you)
So when internet is allowed, the exams are just going to get harder, and would just require you to obtain further knowledge during the exam. - danwallace, on 05/10/2009, -2/+5But I've already been doing that anyways...
That was one of the funniest parts of taking a college programming course. Obviously our exams were on our laptops since they wouldn't make us write code on paper. They'd tell us not to use the internet as a reference, and they'd check to make sure we didn't have ethernet cables plugged in, but they had no way of stopping anyone from connecting wirelessly. All we had to do was close firefox as they'd walk by our desk and then open it again once they'd passed. - Frazzlet, on 05/10/2009, -2/+5Yeah but if they qualify based on how good their are at researching things on the internet then most of us on here could qualify as doctors.
- ddrirc, on 05/10/2009, -0/+3My chemistry exams this semester are open book, and they are just as hard as my closed-book chem exams last semester. It's nice not having to remember tons of formulas and equations, but the problems can still be difficult.
- inactive, on 05/10/2009, -0/+2I'd say the major problem here is stopping students from communicating.
- DaltonZ, on 05/10/2009, -0/+2You aren't going to have a doctor getting 60% on quizzes, my friend. Not a damned chance. You think you're going to get into a University with Ds, and then go on to medical school with Ds? And quizzes can fairly easily quiz you on everything you've been taught if they are given at appropriate intervals, and if the problems needing solving are complex enough.
- CozySar, on 05/10/2009, -0/+2Good idea. Of course the Danes are way ahead of everybody in everything else. Note they haven't decided - they're just going to test it. They'll start testing in the US in about 50 years.
- PandaBearShenyu, on 05/10/2009, -0/+2I don`t see why not, it`s not like these kids will emerge into a world without instant access to more information than any university could ever teach them. I see enable the internet as a legitimate learning tool.
While we`re at it, make all books electronic so one can just ctrl-f without having to flip through hundreds of pages. - highonfire, on 05/10/2009, -0/+2i've always found that my professors that allow open internet testing "get it" and are doing the greatest service to the education of their students. any open internet test i have ever had has been pretty difficult and based on complex real world circumstance which requires competent problem solving rather than just being able to regurgitate memorized information on command like most traditional exams require.
what i believe is desperately missing at the university level is teaching students how to properly use tools such as the internet when doing research. the whole little thing of going to the library for a half hour in english 101and a 60 year old librarian who just learned how to use the internet herself two years ago teaches you how to access databases just doesn't cut it. for most students this is the only research education they ever receive in college! students of today need complex and formal training on how to harvest information from multiple sources - LethalGeek, on 05/10/2009, -0/+2Recalling random information may be valuable in history classes, but my computer science classes let us truck in our notes and textbooks in. Why? Because remembering every detail of C++ syntax would be more distracting from the greater purpose of the exam: Proving we understand how to actually program. Or for my physics classes, proving that I understood the math well enough to figure out the presented word problem. The tests were also timed, so if you walked in ignorant of the function of things you were screwed.
Those were real tests, not nonsense HS "when did this event happen" tests. Something tells me these kids are taking tests that check their application of the facts, not just regurgitating them. - kelmaster1, on 05/10/2009, -0/+2Doctors use the internet for research all the time.
I wouldn't be worried. Out of the 10 or so premed students I knew only one made it into medical school. Typical (good) med schools admit about 0.5-10% of all applicants
I enjoy (in a sadistic kind of way) seeing freshmen come to college with high hopes of becoming a doctor or veterinarian, only to be crushed from the realization that it's a very competitive program and that it takes a lot of work. This is a great weed out process that only admits those who are determined.
Not to be a pretentious condescending bastard, but I think someone needs an education... - Eurynom0s, on 05/10/2009, -0/+2Obviously one of the last lines should read "your supervisor isn't going to dock you pay because you HAD TO look up the info you needed"
:p - idivine, on 05/10/2009, -0/+2WTF
- gumballer, on 05/10/2009, -2/+4I wish it was more like the Matrix
Tank: Operator.
Trinity: Tank, I need a pilot program for a V-212 helicopter. Hurry.... Let's go - inactive, on 05/10/2009, -1/+3I didn't even get to use a graphing calculator on my calc exam.
- askantik, on 05/10/2009, -0/+2Agreed. But what college do you go to? Maybe I should go there :D
- Disjunto, on 05/10/2009, -0/+2Hell, I only need 40% to pass my Uni course (UK), 70% for a 1st..... So not knowing 30% is considered pretty damn good. Exams aren't very good
- UK31337, on 05/10/2009, -1/+3Exams achieve nothing. I don't see the point in learning vast swathes of course material, by rote, then being asked obscure questions that only cover 10% of what you've covered in the course. Hell, I sat a University exam on Friday which had a 15 mark question on something the lecturer literally hadn't even mentioned. Luckily it was fairly obvious so we all managed to wing it but hey, stuff like that makes it all seem so pointless.
Give them the Internet, I say. At least it allows them to structure their answers and bolster their understanding instead of jumping through hoops. I know it's Denmark but in the UK exams are pointless memory games for the sole purpose of jumping through hoops and meeting Government targets. Most students here retain nothing after the exam, especially in optional modules done on the side that aren't part of your main path of study.
Exams are only any use if they examine absolutely everything you've been taught. Fact is, this never happens, and just because you achieve a pass mark doesn't mean you know anything, Mark an exam out of 100, pass mark is 60, well that's still 40 things you didn't know and you're still judged to know enough? I'm sorry but I don't want a doctor to be losing 40 marks in an exam, those 40 marks may be the difference between my life and death at his or her hands.
Give them the Internet and let them prove they can analyse and appreciate the knowledge put before them, which is also a valuable skill. Better than the stressful game of total recall that exams currently are. - geniusNOTatWORK, on 05/10/2009, -0/+1This is one thing I've realized over the course of my undergraduate career: everyone I know is going to get their degree with a little help from Wikipedia (some more than others). The internet has actually helped greatly in breaking down information or just giving it to the masses in a much simpler and broader way. Of course I haven't abandoned my text books but when it comes to simplifying the krebs cycle or phosphorylation of a given molecule, sometimes it helps to see it outlined and then fine tune later for proper understanding. Honestly, in what scenario, if any, would the memorization of the Hell-Volhard-Zelinsky reaction or the memorization of force on a moving charge help a doctor greatly? I think that's the problem with education today, we're so bent over in memorizing equations, reactions, and anything really that we don't take the time to fully understand how to use them. There is no more curiosity in trying to further understanding, it's all a big competition to see who can memorize and recall more information to get into medical school or any graduate program really. I think that allowing students to utilize resources would improve critical thinking and actually make better doctors or at least a much more sophisticated society.
- shinyplastic, on 05/11/2009, -0/+1and youporn, if it's a media course.
- sageerrant, on 05/10/2009, -0/+1Uh... yeah, actually. Might take a little while.
- secrity, on 05/11/2009, -0/+1Wikipedia is a great source for finding hard and fast data and for starting deeper research. There can be some problems with using Wikipedia as a sole source for controversial subjects.
- drgmdp, on 05/10/2009, -1/+2just call me doc http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1078/528623170_be00 ...
- Barackalypse, on 05/10/2009, -0/+1If this signals the death of memorization and unthinking regurgitation of facts as a means of testing academic performance, fantastic.
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