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124 Comments
- healthyvideo, on 10/31/2007, -6/+44the legal definition is found in the 1948 United Nations Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (CPPCG). Article 2 of the CPPCG defines genocide as "any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life, calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; [and] forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."
So from the above definition it is clear its not the number but "the method and intention" that goes into defining what is a genocide.From the tape released by the good hindu journalist "the INTENTION and the method adopted to achieve that end" stands exposed.
One of most abhorable proved methods was to cut open the abdomen of pregnant muslim women,taking out the foetus from the womb,throwing it into burning fire. - byrdgang, on 10/31/2007, -7/+37Turning this into a numbers game is a way to ignore the real issue: the systematic killing of any people. Also, keep in mind that the number of people who are killed is far less important than the method of killing when defining genocide. When we dismiss one genocide, we are bound to dismiss others, and as I have said elsewhere, no threshold should be accepted or tolerated.
- livestradamus, on 10/31/2007, -2/+29I'd recommend those who speak Hindi/Urdu, enjoy forign films (i.e. read subtitles) to watch Earth by Deepa Metha.. gives you insight of the "differences" between Hindus/Muslims .. Indians/Pakistanis..
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0150433/
My opinion is.. Patriotism and favoring your own religion and hating on another is well over rated.
Religions change, borders do too..
Love your family, your friends, your neighbors.. have some pride in that.
By the way. I'm a Pakistani born, naturalized American citizen, living & working in Dubai- with friends here and back home in NYC from all over the world. - pintomp3, on 10/31/2007, -3/+28there are a lot of things india covers up, not just violence against muslims. remember the wholesale massacre of sikhs after indira ghandi's assassination? the bhopal disaster has yet to receive the proper recognition by india and the US. this case is particularly heinous because of the active involvement of government officials on a large scale. that's also why it's brushed under the rug.
- byrdgang, on 10/31/2007, -6/+27It is important that we recognize this type of behavior is unacceptable regardless of where it comes (Atheists, Muslims, Christians, Jews, etc.). We should not turn a blind eye to any kind of genocide, regardless of how many people died. Making "smaller" genocides seem less important gives way to larger genocides. The threshold is increased time and time again until those committing genocide sense an outrage coming from others. We must recognize that there should be NO threshold, and that all genocides are wrong.
I'll be keeping an eye out to see if this is reported on CNN, MSNBC, and FOX News. We should not tolerate selective reporting on any kind of news, especially genocide. - rockus, on 10/29/2007, -3/+19Indian Muslims are not able to get good govt jobs??? Get some proper education first. Instead of going to madrasas, go to real schools. In my state (Kerala in India) , there is a sizable Muslim and Christian population even though Hindus are the majority. People go to proper schools and no one is underrepresented anywhere. You need to get good education to get a good job.
- inactive, on 10/29/2007, -0/+13Are you ***** Kidding me. It was all over the place in all major news media. CNN, BBC and many others gave quite a lot of coverage to those events. Its only American Media that failed to cover it.
- kevinfell, on 10/31/2007, -0/+13Ironically, the 1984 anti-Sikh riots and the 2002 Gujarat riots were organized by two different political parties, both of which accuse each other of massacring innocent people.
The 1984 massacre of Sikhs was a pogrom organized by Indian National Congress (I), to which Indira Gandhi belonged. At that time, the Hindutva (extremist Hindus) group which was opposed to Congress tried to protect the Sikhs. When the Hindutva party BJP came to power, they set up a commission to investigate the riots (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanavati_commission ), However, by 2004 the Hindutva BJP party was replaced by the Congress. During the Congress rule, the CBI (India's FBI) refused to implicate the accused (all of whom were Congress members), saying that there was not enough "evidence" against them.
The 2002 Gujarat riots were organized by the Hindutva groups, when the Hindutva party BJP was ruling the Gujarat state. At that time, Congress accused them of torturing Muslims, while BJP labeled Congress as "pseudo-secular". The BJP said that the riots were a result of the massacre of Hindus by Muslims at Godhra, and the riots were a result of anger among the Hindus. While, in fact, the riots were a result of a pogrom by BJP:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Gujarat_violence
Politicians suck. Everywhere. - d3vmax, on 10/29/2007, -5/+17Modi is barred from coming to the US btw... he applied for a visa and got rejected after the riots.
- unbreakable, on 10/29/2007, -1/+12As a Hindu, I am ashamed. I thought Hindu's had a very simple principle - "Do good to others and good things will happen to you".
That's what my father taught me - I am not a religious person, but I took the simple message to heart. - kevinfell, on 10/31/2007, -3/+14Are you ***** kidding me? The state governments have reserved seats for Muslims in government jobs and educational institutes. A number of Muslim groups are also included under the "Backward Class" category, which entitles them for reservation in government jobs and colleges:
http://www.google.co.in/search?q=site%3Ancbc.nic.i ...
Also, the Indian Government gives "Haj subsidy" to Muslims, in spite of protests from non-Muslim taxpayers:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haj_subsidy
And don't blame Hindus or Christians or Atheists for the sorry state of Muslims in India. Many of them send their children to Madrasahs instead of sending them to proper schools (the government has made primary education free, but still they don't send their children to government schools!). So many of Muslims observe "Purdah" and react strongly when the government bans them. It's the Islamic customs and fanatical nature that keeps Muslims away from becoming part of mainstream society.
This happens not only in India, but also in other countries, where Muslims refuse to do away with customs like veil.
And no, I'm not a Hindu chauvinist, I'm a Catholic. - santasing, on 10/29/2007, -3/+13Here's why the riots started: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godhra_Train_Burning
- arjie, on 10/28/2007, -2/+11That's pretty bad logic. Let's see what we can do with that. During British rule, some Indians had quite high positions in government. Doesn't this mean that Indians weren't oppressed? Well, you know what? They were oppressed.
I'd rather not comment on whether Muslims are oppressed or not, because I just don't know enough. However your logic is ridiculous, and if you're justifying the violence in Gujarat then you're twisted. Those were people, dude. Normal people. The problem here is people who can't see Muslims, Hindus, Christians, whatever as people. Just because one guy set off a bomb in Kashmir, doesn't mean you have to kill your neighbourhood barber! - parvez, on 10/29/2007, -1/+10I am an Indian Muslim who you can call as highly educated
Please note few points
1] To all non Indians: There is no discrimination of Muslims in general in India. India is a secular country.
2] To all my Indian Hindu neighbors: If you think there is discrimination against Muslims do this experiment
Make an identical CV with Hindu name and another in Muslim Name, Post it online, to job sites and see the difference in number of response you get for each CV. I have seen for every response you get for the identical Muslim name CV, you will also get 3 more responses, for the same identical Hindu name CV. Means If you are an Hindu in India then you get 3 times more opportunity to prosper than a Muslim with Identical qualification. I don’t mean to say that’s bad but some work needs to be done here. I hope someday everyone gets equal opportunity and hopefully may be in next generation.
3] To All Indian Muslims: If you correctly note the numbers in the above point I made, Please note you are only loosing on 25% of the opportunity that is yours. As we floated 2 identical CVs and guess that there are 100 Jobs that match your CV, if there everything was fair, then 50 of them should go to your Hindu name CV and 50 to Muslim name CV, so 50 job opportunity are not your in the first place. That is why, it’s not bad actually. So work hard, Study well and make sure you don’t lose the 25% opportunity which you got. And be thankful to Allah that you still got the Opportunity (whatever the percentage it is,) it’s just minimally less than what your Hindu friend would have got. Do not hold any ill will towards your Hindu friends because if they wanted you would have not got that 25% of jobs opportunity also.
My Perspective on the Gujarat incident, it’s an Injustice and I am sure Indian Supreme court will deliver justice to the victims. As it has given justice to the victims, of the Bombay Blast. The first step to get Justice is that the people, who are responsible for the genocide, do not win the election. If they will win the election they will delay the justice from getting delivered. - Tiak, on 10/28/2007, -2/+11There was some brief coverage in 2002, but really it's more like when the victims aren't from one's own country, the news coverage ends quickly... Think about how little attention that, for example, the London and Madrid bombings got...
- arjie, on 10/29/2007, -3/+10Sadly, I'm not surprised. This is not an exception. Tehelka exposed that huge bribery operation that the NDA* was running too. Bigotry is not dead in India, in fact, it seems to experiencing a kind of resurgence. I just hope common sense will win in time.
*National Democratic Alliance. The BJP, which is the ruling party in Gujarat now and during the riots, was the major constituent of the NDA. - marcz, on 10/28/2007, -0/+7Don't nitpick. Tell them politely if you must.
- inactive, on 10/31/2007, -4/+11The only reason Muslims dont get job is that they don't educate themselves. Muslims have the lowest number of their community who go secondary school and then even dismal numbers when it comes to higher education. How can anyone give a job to a person if they meet the basic educational qualification?
And when was an India/Pak match ever about Hindus Vs Muslim. Hell 30% of the team is Muslim so no true cricket fan can ever bring religion into the game. If you love Pakistan so much why don't you just move there.
And i call ***** on the Kanpur Claim. UP has one of the biggest Muslim population in India and they form a major part of teh Vote back so its complete ***** that the local government will allow that to happen
Over all i give you a 0/10 for your trolling efforts. - inactive, on 10/31/2007, -27/+34When the Muslims are the victims, no news coverage or labeling the atrocities for what they are –genocide, terror act, etc.
- inactive, on 10/29/2007, -10/+16Abdul Kalam became the third Muslim President of the Republic of India in only 50 years of span of the country. And you think Muslim are being oppressed?
Believe me, when you see uncensored live footage of a bomb scene on your TV in your state, you will loose your mind. A person will break loose his chains, He will decimate his enemies. Just like U.S. sent the Japanese to the concentration camps or attitude toward Muslims after 9/11.
Any sane man would loose his mind when a bomb goes off in his neightborhood. - healthyvideo, on 10/28/2007, -2/+8Exactly!
- nachotronics, on 10/30/2007, -0/+6It's kind of lame to think that 1000 people is not enough, it could include almost every person you have ever known, it's easy to do the math while others are being killed.Even if this doesn't have any consequence in our lives how can you not see it is wrong, it's people lives. You may also think 3000 is not too much, then why do we all care about September 11??
Also genocide is not a mater of numbers, it is about the motivation, political, ethnical or religious, even if they where 10. - pintomp3, on 10/31/2007, -0/+6excellent movie. it's really sad how partition tore at the fabric of indian society and pitted long time friends and neighbors against each other. many cities like lahore were once shining examples of people of different religions living together in harmony. from south asia, to iraq, to israel/palestine; the british carved out colonial territories in ways to create maximum sectarian conflict when they retreated. this was no accident.
- inactive, on 10/29/2007, -3/+8The day we start opening up journalism into the problems of India, is the day we see how close that country is to Africa in terms of chaos.
- arjie, on 10/28/2007, -0/+5Yeah, he goes and says that and then promptly doesn't capitalise the first letter of his sentence.
- shidairyproduct, on 10/28/2007, -0/+5The convert "brother" is the same idiot who let a foreign ideology, started by an epileptic madman, come in the way of a strong familial bond. I'd choose to be the brother who died at the sword believing in Dharma than to allow forceful conversion. It took a mature man to allow his brother to make the decision to convert and not to question his brother's faith, but to believe in his own till his death.
That idiot brother is also the same idiot who let another foreign ideology take control of his brain and let the British policy of "divide and conquer" flourish so well. the said idiot brother is the idiot who wanted a separate country Pakistan and now leads a country of brainwashed little ***** who live by barbaric sharia law and profess honor killings, but claim to follow "the religion of peace."
And who is sensationalizing this story? I suggest you read up the brutal Hindu genocide by the Islam invaders from the West. Where's the museum for Hindu genocides? - Crisender111, on 10/29/2007, -2/+7This is an exaggerated figure n this is being brought on the eve of elections in that state.
Do u smell something fishy? - bluechips23, on 10/28/2007, -2/+6Why is d3vmax being dugg when he is saying the right thing? I mean, whatever happened in Gujurat doesn't normally happen in India and doesn't really reflect a common Indian's views. Few irrational and politically powerful people go off the tangent to do whatever they want, but that doesn't mean that they are doing the right thing, or anyone supports them. I still feel Modi is an ***** and he doesn't deserve to hold any political or government position in that state. If he wins the election, then it pretty much shows either that the people of Gujurat have no conscience whatsoever or Modi is very effective in stealing votes in his own favor.
Whatever may be the cause, but that man needs to suffer in one way or the other. - kevinfell, on 10/31/2007, -5/+9Hmm... so the incident that triggered the riots (that is, the massacre of Hindus by the Muslims) should also be classified as "genocide":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godhra_train_burning - sunnydiv, on 10/28/2007, -1/+5umm are to trying to start yet another riot between hindus n muslim dude ?
stay on topic, cos if u wanna hope here and there , there is plenty of stuff to go around - gauharjk, on 10/29/2007, -0/+4Over 3000 killed, 2,00,000 were homeless, hundreds of women were gang-raped, many times by their friendly hindu neighbors, with whom they had lived peacefully for decades.
Tha entire government machinery was against the Muslim minorities. And people say it was a reaction to burning of a train carrying hindus. But it has not even been proved. AL the eye-witnesses were fake. Even th petrol-pump worker, who had identified the accused, was exposed in this sting operation. He said he had received money and a photo to identify the accused by the chief investigating officer.
So barbaric was this event, that all Indians, irrespective of their religion, were aghast. It is no longer about religion. It is about humanity.
And the Gujaratis have lost all of it... Truly shameful... - inactive, on 10/29/2007, -1/+5Funny, 1,000 dead Muslims are a genocide but 500,000 dead Armenians is just a massacre?
- declawedpaw, on 10/28/2007, -3/+7I also would like to know where such hatred comes from. But here my theory: Hindus were living peacefully in India, when muslims illegally invaded and occupied a large part of the Hindu homeland.
- declawedpaw, on 10/28/2007, -3/+6"I cant believe there are people who support the idea of killing civilians." ...Then please review the Koran.
- byrdgang, on 10/28/2007, -2/+5"Maximum coverage." I think that's purely subjective. How much reporting individual cases get should have no bearing on the seriousness of a story, and we can't play politics here. We should not say "My group of people is always ignored!" You hear this from EVERYONE.
- DopplerDuck, on 10/28/2007, -1/+4What I found curious was that the day the "genocide" news broke (soon after the event) and reports started showing up about some groups abroad wanting to get Modi charged in an international human rights court, out of the blue there was a "terrorist strike" on the Indian Parliament. Abruptly, the focus of the world changed. Stupid "terrorists" didn't get a better time to attack the parliament.
- viksmaester, on 10/31/2007, -0/+3that doesn't give us the right to kill innocent muslims
- shidairyproduct, on 10/28/2007, -0/+3You're right, but it's not genocide. Genocide is when there is a policy of the eradication of Muslims in India altogether. Progress doesn't justify retaliatory murder, but a long history of genocide in your own country of your own native people justifies expelling of these trouble makers.
- healthyvideo, on 10/29/2007, -1/+4ha ha ha
- JOEINDIAK, on 10/29/2007, -0/+2Justice in India is not really justice. The judicial system is beholden to politicians. The people vote crooks and petty criminals to parliment. Justice in India, in all cases, is a slap and insult to victimes of crimes. All Indians do not expect any justice from this Gujarat Genocide.
- sherrife, on 10/31/2007, -0/+2Why is this person being dugg down? One could either dispute his translation, or not, am I right?
Surely his post isn't really a matter of opinion. - sunnydiv, on 10/29/2007, -5/+7dude.... what u talking about mate, dont u remember president kalam ? ...... a muslim president... just goes to show, if you are worth it, you'll get the job, and besides, forget government jobs man, i ve seen muslim do great in private jobs and businesses
- oMeSSiaHo, on 10/29/2007, -0/+2Or the Bible?
- bedamned, on 11/05/2007, -0/+2That depends upon how much you want to give (weightage to such confessions). According to you, a begger giving a testimony on a murder can not be considered as he/she is a begger! Then i must say you are a nut. Secondly did you ever consider the fact whether if it is really true ? Ok it might be for the elections but that does not make us stop digging into the true reasons then simply saying ***** and ignoring it.
- DopplerDuck, on 10/29/2007, -0/+2Third World - Third World - Bhai -Bhai!
- inactive, on 10/29/2007, -1/+3there is a reason why i dont vote. it starts with "P"
- DopplerDuck, on 10/29/2007, -2/+4Fundamentalists are cause of the rot, my friend. It doesn't matter which religion they say they follow, their means and ends are identical.
As for me, I see every worshipper as a potential terrorist. - inactive, on 10/28/2007, -0/+2you really have a rose tinted view of the world, haven't you? clicking on the "digg" button does nothing. nothing at all. not in a developing nation like india where net presence is still too low.
- rachitbedi, on 10/28/2007, -0/+2dude you are absolutely stupid. I dont know what the hell you are talking about. We have muslims everywhere. We have had a muslim president, Pm, cricket captain and bollywood superstar.
- viksmaester, on 10/31/2007, -0/+2his translation is absolutely correct, i've seen the video on tv
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