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- longofest, on 10/12/2007, -3/+94He is only believed to be infallible when he is speaking of dogma or faith/morals.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_infallibility - thebairyhum, on 10/12/2007, -11/+51The poster didn't even read the article before posting...
"Papal infallibility only comes into play with issues of faith that concern the whole Church. It doesn't apply when the Pope is expressing a personal opinion or, in this case, quoting from a historical text." - Zippo, on 10/12/2007, -17/+52If anyone actually believes a human can actually be infallible, please visit me so I can club you over the head.
Infallibility is a cute little trick the church made up to keep people from questioning their leader. Y'know, when the only people who were educated with the wealthy and powerful... no one's really falling for it anymore. - Grimdotdotdot, on 10/12/2007, -4/+36And wrote a really bad summary, in that case.
- Rosewood, on 10/12/2007, -6/+35Thinking the Pope can't make a mistake is up there with Catholics being cannibals.
- l0ne, on 10/12/2007, -1/+30Also, not _always_ when he speaks of dogma, but only when he does so in an official fashion (ex cathedra). Which has happened a limited number of times in recent history.
- numptydumpty, on 10/12/2007, -10/+38Catholics aren't Cannibals???!
- chris9902, on 10/12/2007, -10/+37Kent Brockman: "The fake Pope can be recognized by his high top sneakers and extremely foul mouth."
- Grimdotdotdot, on 10/12/2007, -8/+33The only mistake he made was apologising.
"You're religion is violent!"
"We will kill you for that comment!"
For ***** sake, how dumb people be? - Freshjive787, on 10/12/2007, -12/+35just as sinful as anyone else? hes not up in the middle of the night reading digg after rubbing one.
- yonbeastie, on 10/12/2007, -8/+28with a hat so tall, how can he ever be wrong?
- spanner, on 10/12/2007, -8/+24He didn't make a mistake, he was totally correct, as we have seen since the speach, in what he said.
His apology is merely to appease the violent. - actionscripted, on 10/12/2007, -9/+23He's-a the friggin' pope.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+18@johndi
Honestly the only person I see trolling is you. - schurkenstadt, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14He did not excuse himself for making a mistake but rather said that he is sorry, that the muslim did not understand him. A non-excuse.
- Husky217, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12ShadowUnseen is right. There's no "lil' bit" sinful, "moderately" sinful, or "very" sinful. Sin is determined by God's absolute standards, so you're either sinful or not. It's "very" black and white.
This of course is all assuming God exists, I'm not trying to preach at anyone. But if you're going to discuss aspects of religion, you should do so from a consistent perspective. - sh0k, on 10/12/2007, -6/+15*Gasp* A human? Making mistakes?
This....this tears apart my whole concept of God! Somehow! - nepawoods, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11The first paragraph was posted as a summary, but in no way does it summarize the article. As a summary, it is grossly innaccurate.
- ProfBagelwood, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12Yowza. I thought people were done with the whole "hate the Catholic" thing. I mean, say what you will, but ultimately you're reading the bible we put together. (It's true; we canonized it.) I don't mind when people disagree with us, but come now, can't we play nicely? I mean, the Catholic Church and most of the Protestant Churches have all evolved so much and become so similar in beliefs that I can't help but giggle when one side bashes the other. My personal favorite is when people tell me that they don't like my religion "because Catholics are intolerant." XD
But yeah. The whole "top expert" or "ineffable" thing is present in nearly all major religions. Islam has Caliphs or Ayatollahs, Buddhists have a Dalai Lama... There's nothing wrong with acknowledging that some people have spent a lot more time studying than other people. It's good to think for yourself and you shold never be afraid to disagree (note that if we all agreed with all of what he said, then we'd all be saying that we were *all* ineffable; thus, the vast majority of Catholics don't go 100% with what the pope says), but even while you stick to your own, it's only reasonable to acknowledge the expertise of others, even when you disagree with them on this or that. - gr8one, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13Without trying to disrespect Catholics in any way, I do not believe that there's any scriptural support for anyone who's not Jesus being infallible on any topic, church related or not.
- bpatters7, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11It is a bit ironic that part of what Muslims became angry about was the suggestion that their religion promotes violence, but then that is exactly how some (admittedly few) expressed their displeasure....firebombing.
If he'd said something like that about Buddhists I doubt it would have even raised their blood pressure. Christians would have behaved the same way a few hundred years ago......but the reaction was just so...primitive and medeval. - mmortal03, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11"He should not have apologized."
He only apologized for the controversy. He wasn't in the position to apologize for the text he quoted, and he said that he didn't personally agree with what the part of the quoted material said.
People should read the entire original speech, so that they can understand the context: http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2006/september/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20060912_university-regensburg_en.html - Zippo, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10Because they live in a very traditional, conservative culture, and their deep faith makes them very gullable and influenced. Having corupt leaders doesn't help much either. So, when higher-ups say "Burn the cities", people listen...
Kinda like how a corrupt, conservative, fear-mongering person convinced a lot of people Iraq had WMDs and sponsered terrorism and managed to get over $316 billion of the tax payer's money be used to invade and occupy it.
Europe went through a stage like this in the past. As time goes on, the middle east will catch up. - h2gofast, on 10/12/2007, -5/+13papal infallibility only holds on theological issues and most Catholics take even that with a grain of salt.
- RossC0, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11People should remember that he has apologised for using a quote and that the quote doesn't reflect his and therefore the Catholic Churches views.
His real mistake is he should have had his speech translated into Arabic and released to the press as soon as demonstrations about his speech started. The demonstrators were demonstrating against him based on the use of a quote without knowing the context of the quote or the speech as a whole... - Grimdotdotdot, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11It's widely belived that this pope wrote a lot of the last pope's speeches.
- mmortal03, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9"Without trying to disrespect Catholics in any way, I do not believe that there's any scriptural support for anyone who's not Jesus being infallible on any topic, church related or not."
There doesn't have to be scriptural support for everything the Catholic Church does. That is a Protestant idea. The Catholic Church's viewpoint is that the Church and its Tradition came first, and during that time, the Bible was written and the key concepts of the Church were formed. Ever since the Bible was written there has not been any more formal revelations, however, the Church has studied and more fully applied the teachings and deepened our understanding of them. This is a continuous process. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -6/+13@devindotcom
Your statement was so lame and anal I just had to dig you down, funny how people who correct people on gramar and wot not are boring sods no1 cares to listen to. - richiestang78, on 10/12/2007, -9/+15I never knew Catholics thought he was infallible, I knew Christians thnk God is but the Pope is just a guy in white bathrobes.
- kolop1, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9 Why is it when Muslims get mad...They tear apart there own cities in protest.
I'm so mad at you I'm going to burn my house down. Does not make much sense to me. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6"Somehow everyone forgets that this Pope in the 20th century was a member of a party that killed 6 million people for being of another religion."
My wife was a member of the young pioneers... I guess that makes her a communist :-/
hell I was a member of the boy scouts, I guess when this country is finally overthrown I am going to be judged by that too... Every society that wants to control their population supports a youth group meant to en-grain its fundamental teachings into young children. If you can turn them when they are young and irrational, you likely have an ally for life.
To judge someone based on the fact that they were indoctrinated as a child is ridiculous.. I will say this however, he does look a lot like emperor palpatine.... - origclubsoda, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8Are you seriously this ignorant? The pope is not infallible. There are certain statements a pope can make that are defined as infallible,. You guys are always criticizing Catholics but most of the time you guys are just plain dumber than George Bush.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_infallibility - unloud, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8@mem2
Remember: Two wrongs don't make a left.
...or something. - hfwarner3, on 10/12/2007, -5/+9Let me state for the record that trying to teach an advanced theological concept through the comments on Digg is like trying to teach someone string theory on the back of a single postcard. You asked, so I am going to do my best.
In the book of Matthew, you see Jesus change Simon's name to Peter (Cephas) and said that upon this rock (what Cephas means in Greek) he will build his church and what he binds on earth will be bound in heaven and the gates of Hell will not prevail against the church. Catholics therefore believe that Jesus started the universal church (Catholic means universal) while he was alive and he made Peter the head of that church. In the book of Acts, you see Peter leading the church and you see them elect a successor for Judas. That same election process, in a more formal structure, is used today to elect the new successors and thus Catholics believe that the authority Jesus gave Peter is handed down to the elected successor.
As mentioned earlier, the Pope is only infallible when he speaks officially on matters of faith and morals (ex cathedra). He is still a man who sins like the rest of us. You also have to keep in mind that there are venial sins and mortal sins – only the mortal sins get you sent to Hell. If you have venial sins on your soul when you die, these sins must be burned away before you can go to Heaven because no sin can enter Heaven. This process of venial sins (or the “stain of sin”) being burned away is known as Purgatory. At the end of the process, you go to Heaven and become a saint. Please keep in mind that I am over-simplifying this to keep it as short as possible.
Once you are a saint, you are in Heaven and are aware of what is going on in the world. If someone prays and asks you to intervene on their behave, Catholics believe that the saint hears this prayer and can ask God face to face to grant what is being asked for. This is where the miracles mentioned above come in because it is supposed to be the proof that the person is in Heaven asking God to personally intervene and grant favor. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8
"The fact that people actually ***** believe they could end up in hell burning in a lake of fire for going against these christian "morals", blows my damn mind. It's like living in a world of people who can't think except for very few. It kind of sucks with so few atheists about in the real world, everywhere I look I see low iq don't brush teeth or wash type people running into their corner church to beg at the sky."
You arrogant ass. Being an atheist doesn't make you intelligent. It takes more faith to believe there is no higher power. - PotatoSalad, on 10/12/2007, -27/+31He should not have apologized.
- jeremiah, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5exactly.
- peterholloway, on 10/12/2007, -7/+10As far as I'm aware, historically, Christians believe that God's Word (the Bible) is infallible. And the Bible tells us that "all have sinned", Pope, Mother Teresa, me & you :)
The Bible also tells us that all can be forgiven, Pope, Mother Teresa, me & you :) - carpespasm, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6so where do saints come from? aren't they supposedly unsinful? (actually asking, not being rude)
- Isidore, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5The link is a fairly accurate account for those who are interested. If you are not interested then don't digg it. Simple.
Message to all wise guys who happen to be atheist/agnostic/sceptic. When you cheer those who give the Pope/Catholic Church/Christianity a kicking, consider who is doing the kicking. "My enemy's enemy is my friend" is a dangerous game if your enemy's enemy is worse than the enemy. Those who killed a nun, burnt churches and threated violence to anyone who suggested that Islamic history has not always been peaceful are a greater threat to liberty and democracy than any present-day Pope could ever be.
Christians are expected to apologise (John Paul II did) for any violent incident in Christian history, and not dare to mention any violence in Islamic history or themselves be subject to violence. Violence in Islamic history: Muhammad was a brilliant soldier who conquered Arabia and 'religiously cleansed' it of Pagans, Jews and Christians; Aggressive Muslim armies conquered the Jewish Christian and Zoroastrian heartlands now called the Arab and Muslim world; they would have conquered all of Europe were they not stopped at battles at Tours, Lepanto and Kosovo. To an extent Islam was spread by the sword. Read Quran 9:5.
In contrast, Muslims, and others may freely mention Christian agression such as the Crusades without any 'balancing' mention of Muslim agression.
I don't deny any of the bad things done by Christians, all I ask is that Muslims do the same. A balanced view of history requires all sides of the story to be told. - Obvioustroll, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@brokencrystal - saints are not a biblical concept; the idea evolved as a way to rever and honor people who show through their actions what it means to be a Christian.
Thus, after she died Mother Theresa was announced "blessed" - the first step on the path to being declared a saint - not because she never sinned but because she read the bible and did *exactly* what it told her to do - sold all her belongs and used the money to aid the poorest of all. Poor who weren't even Christians, by the way. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -9/+12because the pope wasn't selected by god? He was chosen behind closed doors by a bunch of men wishing to control the lives of millions of Catholics.
Reminds me of Family Guy..
Cardinal: Pope! Time to get up and put your hat.
Pope: It's a stupid hat.
Cardinal: Pope!
Pope: Okay, okay. God!
(Goes into the bathroom, comes out, and drops his boxer shorts on the floor)
Cardinal: Pope, the floor is not a hamper.
Pope: Man! - fucknut, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4"Perhaps nobody told them that atheism is a faith."
atheism is NOT a faith.
and you are just a retarded monkey.
Thanks! - tubaros, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5I don't personally think its about being infallible. The people that made the mistakes here are the media, taking a snippet of what he said, turning it around for their own good, and feeding it to Muslims around the world. He was quoting someone else in an entirely different context to whats been reported. Very irresponsible journalism IMHO.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6"The pope is a joke and only speaks for catholics. All real followers of Christ are saints. Sorry to say but works don't get you into heaven. Lifting just certain people up as a saint is a load of crap. The catholic church has distorted Christianity and turned into what Jesus was against,Religion. Only god can hear prayers mary cant hear a thing. Catholic church is full of idols and useless religon."
I am not agains Catholics or any other religion, but being a Christian... I know that Catholics are a little twisted as far Christianity goes. Many of the things they teach are not in the Bible. The Bible never says to pray to Mary. The Bible doesn't teach that healings or good works make you a saint or get you to heaven. God is no respector of man. We are all equal in Christ. The Bible teaches that he is the ONLY way to the father.
Sorry, but that's just how it is Catholics. - fruktkake, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"What nonsense; the absence of faith is not faith, any more than the absence of a sandwich is also a kind of tasty snack between two slices of bread."
- PZ Myers
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/04/look_ma_im_a_secular_whackjob.php - nocountries, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3The Protestant Church of England religion WAS ostensibly started so that Henry VIII could get divorced, but the move reflected a widening of the gap between the landed ruling aristocracy and the new capitalist rich, whose power was growing by the day.
All religions must be tolerated under general principles of free speech, but they don't have to be supported by the state, at all, and I don't think they should be. Religious education should be a voluntary matter kept entirely away from state schools. I am a communist, and I'd love children to be taught Marx in schools, but they don't learn about his teachings until they get to college (and mostly not even then). I'd be happy for the same rules to apply to religion. - Zippo, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5@l0ne: Today, yes. I'm very aware that much discussion and politics go on in the Vatican, and that the Pope does not abuse his power. You'll note that the Pope did not go around yelling "I'm the Pope! I'm right! I'm infallible!"... he did the opposite, he apologized.
I'm referring mostly to yesteryear... when the Pope was truly believed to be infallible, and, I assure you, the Church was rampant with corruption. - Mekun, on 10/12/2007, -7/+9The pope is a joke and only speaks for catholics. All real followers of Christ are saints. Sorry to say but works don't get you into heaven. Lifting just certain people up as a saint is a load of crap. The catholic church has distorted Christianity and turned into what Jesus was against,Religion. Only god can hear prayers mary cant hear a thing. Catholic church is full of idols and useless religon.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4ShadowUnseen is right! The story of Jesus is backed by tons of corroborating evidence and documents. Like, uh...
Well, there's also the...umm...
Screw you! It just is and if you don't believe me, you'll burn in Hell for all eternity! Take that, skeptics! -
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