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189 Comments
- WalkingDead, on 10/12/2007, -34/+212Had this been said by a Muslim, Imagine what the reaction might have been. This whole war is propaganda war. A Christian or Jew saying it, “Yes this is WAR we are speaking of. We need to defend ourselves. Israel has a right to exist.” If it comes from a Muslim, “Oh those terrorist can’t think of anything but killing.”
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -23/+155War is not about killing people. War is about winning.
We killed hundreds of thousands in Vietnam, and lost. Very likely because we killed too many and the wrong ones, and alienated the population. Where does this dangerously naive attitude about war come from? Some sort of macho instinct that thinks war=killing?
I can see a small child thinking that, but we have adults thinking that now.
Oh, and by the way, I guess that kind of reveals that all that "liberation" nonsense that we were sold as the fourth or fifth justification for the Iraq war was all BS. - ytrabbit, on 10/12/2007, -23/+94This kid was f'd in the head. If you read the article you would see that he was just convicted of murdering and raping a 14 year old girl. He should have been caught by the psych people when he signed up. This is part of what that phrase Catch 22 means. By the militaries standards if you want to kill then you are insane and have no place in the US Army.
In truth this reporter is also at fault for that childs death and torture since he did not report this disturbed young man to his commanding officer.
The reporter even states that while he thought this young man's attitude would be the norm, it is not. This reporter saw to many 80's Vietnam flicks and did not act in a reasonable or responsible way. - drizek, on 10/12/2007, -9/+77How exactly are we supposed to win in iraq? we have no objective. Right now the best we can hope to achieve is to be able to leave the country without having a civil war break out. Thats not very likely to happen though, our failure in iraq is unprecedented. Its even worse than vietnam because thousands of innocent people are going to be dying as a result of it decades from now.
- YourTechSupport, on 10/12/2007, -9/+66Don't ***** with America, or we'll bring democracy to your country.
- Shorties, on 10/12/2007, -13/+66Oh yeah we are making Iraq much better then it was before...
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -7/+49ytrabbit:
>This kid was f'd in the head. If you read the article you would see that he was just convicted of murdering and raping a 14 year old girl. He should have been caught by the psych people when he signed up.
Due to falling enlistment rates, we lowered our standards for enlistment to include borderline mentally retarded. In addition there have been recent stories about gang members and skinheads being allowed to enlist (how can that possibly go wrong!?)
>Further evidence that the war in Iraq is wrecking the U.S. Army: Recruiters, having failed to meet their enlistment targets, are now being authorized to pursue high-school dropouts and (not to mince words) stupid people.
>More than that, the Los Angeles Times reports today that 4 percent of recruits will be allowed to score as low as in the 16th to 30th percentile—a grouping known as "Category IV"—on the U.S. Armed Forces' mental-aptitude exam.
http://www.slate.com/id/2127487/ - templest, on 10/12/2007, -7/+44Moral of the story: Send the criminals to war instead of the ones most deserving in our society of a normal life, and let the problem take care of itself.
War is never good, no matter how you see it.
We're really far behind in our social and spiritual development as a race.
Monkeys with weapons, my friend. - orangeRam, on 10/12/2007, -3/+39This reminds me of that scene in Full Metal Jacket where Joker asks the helicopter gunner "How can you shoot women and childern?" and the gunner responds "Easy, you just don't lead 'em as much."
- mojoel, on 10/12/2007, -11/+42Who's worse the 'uncivilized barbarian' Middle Eastern people or the civilized patriotic thugs like this guy?
- gh02t, on 10/12/2007, -10/+41You can't mark all soldiers as crazed killers though. Many people sign up because they feel it is what is necessary to protect their family and friends. Soldiers frequently spend long stays in psychiatric hospitals because of the trauma they suffer in battle. Yes, most people realize that they will have to fire at another human being when they elist, but that doesn't mean they are all psychotic murderers. This guy is just a piece of filth that would have done something if he had stayed at home anyway.
- barakatx2, on 10/12/2007, -6/+37"If the press is going to get all squirmy-spinned about that, then they need to step back and reconsider what it is that they think war is."
So do you think war is a game where you try to get the most kills? Why don't we just have our wars in MMOFPSs then? - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -8/+39Maybe, maybe not. But as part of a grand experiment we gave him a gun and let him run through some person's neighborhood.
Just not your neighborhood. - goodoldharris, on 10/12/2007, -8/+34"War is not about killing people. War is about winning."
But a war is won by using various kinds of violence (including killing), or threats of violence, to make the population weak and afraid. It's about violence, killing, and domination. You can't disguise the fact by saying "war is about winning." - kp3469, on 10/12/2007, -7/+32@blackcow:
so before we invaded iraq, an iraqi might get tortured by Saddam. now an iraqi might get tortured by U.S. troops. what's the frakking difference? - ReadMeTXT, on 10/12/2007, -11/+36USA made a ***** mess and now Israel
- Shorties, on 10/12/2007, -11/+35And it seems you have been a victim of the propaganda in this world... They aren't barbarians, some of their customs are weird to us, some of them are plain out wrong in our eyes, but to say our customs are completely right and theirs are completely wrong is just *****. Most of those people were happy before we came, they could of been happier, I am sure, but since we have been there they have been miserable. All that good ***** you see on TV (Like the purple voting thumbs) is propaganda.
- floejoe, on 10/12/2007, -6/+28I'm just surprised that the reporter shrugged off his comments at first like he did. I found it disturbing even without the murder/rape allegations that came later. This could have been front-page news back in February, but I suppose they think that timing is much better now.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+27Ajax:
>Bigdave, we didn't lose in Vietnam. We left.
No, we lost. And we can never grow as a populace unless people start accepting that fact. The endless counter arguments that you folks put forward that this would have happened, or this would not have happened is all just pretend. You can't know what would have happened. Maybe if we had actually learned as a society that we did lose in Vietnam, we would have had the smarts to not be in Iraq today.
But we were there for a long, long time. And we had over half a million troops there at the end. We lost. Plain and simple. We lost.
Let us grow as a society and stop believing what people WANT, rather than what WAS. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+25His sleeping quarters burned down, and:
>The company commander in charge of Green's unit told me that the situation was so stressful that he himself had "almost had a nervous breakdown" and had been sent to a hotel-style compound in Baghdad for three days of "freedom rest" before resuming his command.
"Freedom rest." Orwell has nothing on the US. We're going to take the book 1984, and forget using it as a guide, we're going to exceed its every imagination. "Freedom rest." - mojoel, on 10/12/2007, -4/+24I'm on your side, dude. The word 'barbarians' was in quotaions. That means they're not my words. Just clarifying where I stand.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -6/+26Jay -- Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. Nothing.
- Clbck, on 10/12/2007, -5/+24How about I can talk if I repeat what my friend/neighbor who DID go to Iraq said?
"It's a ***** hell-hole." - chipset, on 10/12/2007, -21/+39If US wants to win war through killing non-resisting people (women, children) then -- well, it's war. Just stop talking all that crap about 'war against terrorism' because US IS A TERRORIST.
- skytimelapse, on 10/12/2007, -6/+22jaymoon: It doesn't.... get your head checked.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -11/+26Coy:
>until any of you go over there and see what it's like first hand - shutup.
No. You are responsible for this. You and your "you can't speak out because you have freedom" junta. And we're going to point that out because it's absolutely disgusting. And the fact that you won't let yourself see that you were wrong means that you're a disgrace and cause direct damage to this country. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+19Yeah, you're right. The Vietnam War was lost by the usual assortment of hippie scum, liberal politicians (who, as Rambo cries in one of his movies, "wouldn't let us win"), and backstabbing South Vietnamese. Yeah, I guess the war could and should have been won if only the Curtis LeMays of the world had had their way. I am guessing that if we had only bombed more villages and executed more civilians and destroyed more nature and civilization, somehow the tide would have turned. 1,000,000+ dead Vietnamese was simply not enough to win these people's hearts and minds.
You seem to forget the ghastly and unending bombing campaigns of the Nixon era, which failed to do anything that I am aware of, except add to the nightly body counts. But we can look back at that age, thanks to fools like you, and believe that those who protest during times of war are ultimately responsible for causalities and, if it comes to it, failure in the overall mission. - Piglith, on 10/12/2007, -4/+17It's good to hear the words from a soldiers from time to time. It keeps "WAR" in perspective.
- blackjack75, on 10/12/2007, -6/+19"We killed hundreds of thousands in Vietnam, and lost."
Hundreds of thousands? One would only wish it had been so.
Wheter you take the northern army, southern army or civilian death toll, all range between one and several _millions_. The only group that lost under 60'000 was the U.S. army. Of course not all of these were killed by the U.S. army, but napalming civilian areas surely did not bring the counter down.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War_casualties
With such a high civilian cost (above 2 millions) there was absolutely nothing that the U.S. could to 'win' this war, aside from finishing the extermination of course. If every guy in the country has seen a member of his family taken away by your army, they will simply never-ever accept your domination. - merm, on 10/12/2007, -4/+17Killing Iraqis, and using bombs to bring "freedom" to the world only makes more terrorists. Don't you understand that just like 9/11 makes you mad, that when we go over there and kill 1000x the number of people who were killed in WTC that we are wishing 1000x the "revenge" on ourselves and our children? How stupid it is to think you can solve the world's problems by dropping bombs. You don't make the world safer for your kids, you just create 1000 to 1 more terrists for EACH AMERICAN to have to deal with 30 years from now. It's suicide what we're doing right now - we are destroying our country by making the world hate us even more.
- rafiss, on 10/12/2007, -4/+16gh02t:
Now it's not like I don't support our soldiers, but protect their family and friends from what? I know now that we are over there, soliders have to keep going in. But originally, I don't remember Iraq being a threat to us in our country. - tonyspencer, on 10/12/2007, -9/+21Right, and he's the only one right?
What about the countless other videos, or charges being brought? Abu Ghraib, Gitmo etc etc
Or the Muslim sergeant who fragged his own guys.
The truth is Bush has dehumanised Muslims in general, so many people think they are just like ants. Remember "Charlie"? Funny, but that dehumanisation didn't work either, and the world's mightiest power lost a war to a bunch of rice eating gooks... - merm, on 10/12/2007, -12/+24@Coy
As long as I'm paying for it, and as long as I'm an American I WILL NOT SHUT UP. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -9/+20cawpin:
>You can't judge the situation unless you have been there.
I call *****. You can judge many situations without being there. What he is doing is what Republicans have been famous for doing over the last few years -- suppressing dissent and shrieking "freedom" at the same time. It's disgusting. - Shinta, on 10/12/2007, -5/+16Yeah send criminals and end up like the US Army in the Indian Wars.
- wedderburn, on 10/12/2007, -8/+19some ones been smoking some good ol American propaganda
- drizek, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12a couple points:
WWI was brutal and very bloody. However books like "all quiet on the western front" only came out afterwards. During the war killing for your country was still glorified.
The fact is that israel is encountering fierce resistance in southern lebanon and they need americas help. We are already sending them bombs that were used last night to kill 60 innocent civilians.
Likewise the british during WW2 needed americas help to fight the germans. Today most americans see nazis as pure evil, but at the outbreak of WW2 there was a LOT of support for germany in the US. England launched a massive PR campaign in the US trying to drum up support. They focused on nazi attrocities and just totally omitted their own. At the time there was no internet and there no satelites. England controlled the flow of information to the US from europe and they were quite successful in turning hte tide of public opinion against germany, paving the way for FDR to declare war after pearl harbor with no resistance.
Today we are more fortunate. We area ble to see what is going on in lebanon as it happens and it is just absolutely sickening. Almost all deaths on the lebanese side are civilians, and a majority of those are children. Israel has just started mindlessly slaughtering people. THe problem is that while we hae all these advances in technology people are still turning a blind eye. Even if people read the body counts on a news story, it still does not allow them to empathize with the lebanese people. I dont know why the press censors what is going on in lebanon, even the english-language al-jazeera does not put up hte pictures of the fathers carrying their dead children. This is the page on the arabic site though http://www.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/0D464BC9-17E3-4D4F-B1C5-EB09EE9C00BE.htm the pictures speek for themselves i think. - merm, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13Fred,
Nearly any sacred text (especially the Bible) can be taken out of context and used as an excuse to kill people and fear those with different beliefs than your own. Islam didn't start this war, extremism did. Don't be such a hypocrite. - Sithlrd, on 10/12/2007, -14/+24War is supposed to be about killing. The fruitcakes who want war with rules are not doing anyone a favor. All the geneva conventions do is make it easier to wage war.
War is supposed to be about killing, pillaging, scorched earth, heinous acts and all the other stuff tha makes war "Hell". This is supposed to make war a thing to be avoided. But with the sanitary BS that people are calling war now, it's way to easy to send our militaries into conflict.
Bring back real war like we saw in WW1 and 2 and there will be less of it. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13Yes, not everyone kills in Iraq. I drove a forklift and did paperwork. But even though I don't believe the war was justified, if an Iraqi shot at me and my friends, you better believe I'd shoot back with equal or greater aggression. Luckily, since I was just a POG, my biggest worry was the long chow hall line. I thought 18 wheeler convoy "detail" was fun since being on base was so boring, and we got to see other bases (some with theaters, swimming pools, shopping, bus transport systems, etc). We sat in the trucks with the local national drivers, added protection for the 2 or 3 infantry humvees following along which have been known to ditch the convoy (pussies! but i think they were national guard...). Part of me really wanted something to happen, the part that watches cop chases on SpikeTV. The other part realized it's better if it doesn't, since it would mean some of my friends would be involved, and they were not exactly infantry either.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -6/+16Black -- just like a cult where the victim is told that they can't trust their families, the Republican party members are told that, no matter how bad it is that he saw firsthand -- mortars falling near him every day, he can't trust the media because they're reporting the "negative."
- cadron, on 10/12/2007, -7/+16"Bigdave, we didn't lose in Vietnam. We left. North Vietnam could not have kept fighting for more than a year if we'd kept our presence there. Then, the only thing left would have been to mop up what FEW Viet Cong survived after Tet, as they could not survive without the NVA pouring materiel through the Ho Chi Minh Trail. I won't argue any further, but please don't make such crass, ignorant comments, as it only muddles this thread.
"
Good lord, how can you possibly make a statement like that. I'm sure thats what McNamara keep telling LBJ but your both wrong. The Vietcong could live bamboo and rice and live in holes in the ground and had been fighting outsiders for decades. Some analyst estimated that the US would need 1 million troops on the ground to insure victory, that was something the American people would not stand for and thats why we left. - tonyspencer, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12What's interesting thing is that the plan of using compounds to hide in, and not engaging with the locals, failed spectacularly in Vietnam, so why does the US military think it will work in Iraq?
The British Army has had some success in many countries around the world by being among the people, not holed up in a compound. The only place they've had a problem is Basra. Why? Because like the Americans, they've been hiding in compounds... - p9s50W5k4GUD2c6, on 10/12/2007, -8/+17I don't know the story of this private.
But I DO know of many young men and women that have served in Iraq - or are currently serving there. I know that the words of this private dishonors the personal hell that many of these soldiers have to endure - and the nightmares they will never fully rid themselves of. - blackjack75, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10"Judging by bushes approval ratings if it were like that in the U.S.A about 54% of the US population would be brutally tortured and dead...including you shorties."
Huh, are you implying that bush has a 46% rating? That's maybe what he gets in iraq, where he still has some credibility. - kadio, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9he's on trial for rape and murder. RTFA
- TheKillDoctor, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9All wars are political but fought with weapons that can kill instead of with words. The war starts once the politicians have run out of words. In a village or a country it's still works the same way.
- AhmedOmran, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12And they have grandiously removed all lines between themselves and terrorists.
- tonyspencer, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9Well, yep, if you add up the numbers killed. Saddam would have killed a few thousand more, but that pales into insignificance with the hundreds of thousands killed in the first war, the second war, and the almost daily airstrikes by the USAF and RAF in the intervening 12 years.
Still, as the US says, it's all about winning, which is why Stalin could kill up to 43 million and be just bad, but Hitler killing just 13 million is the most evil person ever. Go figure. - andylau, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10
It was genocide according to the UN guy who lead the oil for food program before he resigned. 1/2 a million dead children. That doesn't even include the dead from iraqi iran war, gulf war part one, or gulf war part 2. Which the US has a fair amount of blame for.
But your right it isn't premeditated. Americans simpley don't care how many iraqi die. -
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