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Home Depot's Contractors Instructed to Charge For Items Not Installed

consumerist.com — KNBC in Los Angeles is investigating a nationwide epidemic of fraud being perpetrated by Home Depot. Is it that bad? Yeah, it's that bad. From KNBC:

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  • trghpy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+21Home Depot.
    Where even the contractor's motto is "Do It YourSelf"
    • shadus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15This is one of the many reasons its critically important to check all work a contractor does. Home depot isn't the only company who's contractors will rip you off.
    • rAid135, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8@thefamousone

      I personally don't even trust licensed contracted. Sheesh, what does a person have to do around here in order to get a contractor that will do the work well and fast.
    • DyDx, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7@thefamousone: you say "(I learned that you can actually be sued for providing work to non tax-paying illegals).
      " Are you sure about this? Besides the fact that you can't be _sued_ for something like that (as suing falls under civil court jurisdiction, and not criminal courts -- and such a thing could in no way be construed as a civil matter, _as I see it_), I also find it hard to believe that there's a law that allows someone who hires a contractor to be criminally liable for the contractor not utilizing legal employees.

      I appreciate your story and everything, it serves as a great bit of advice -- it just seems like this little bit of info you apparently learned can't be correct.

      If you can show us otherwise, I'd be glad to hear it -- as that is something we should be aware of IF it is in fact true! (since it SHOULDN'T be true -- that's BS!)
    • Chompy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4My wife and I got a quote from HD for a set of plantation shutters for our new house. HD's estimate was $15,000. I then called a private contractor and ordered the same coverings for $5700.

      Heh.. in Home Depot's defense, the builder (DR Horton) wanted $20,000 for the same thing.
    • NSResponder, on 10/12/2007, -0/+16You paid up front? That's ridiculous. Every construction contract I've ever seen staged payments with progress milestones. You buy the materials, and you pay for the labor as each phase is completed.

      If anyone in the building trades ever demanded payment in full up front from me, I'd laugh in his face and tell him to get lost.

      -jcr

    • DyDx, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@thefamousone: Hey, not trying to be a dick or something. I merely inferred, from your story (which I liked and can relate to), that you were suggesting that you could be held liable for hiring some contractor who was employing illegal aliens -- because it seemed to me that if you were hiring workers through Home Depot, you are not directly employing the workers, so it seems like you should not be held responsible for that sort of thing.
  • samssf, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5The large amount of fraud that large corporations commit really is BS.
  • Wezlanator, on 10/12/2007, -7/+4I still can't understand to this day why the "t" is silent in "depot".

    • xedd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1wezlanator:
      "I still can't understand to this day why the "t" is silent in "depot". "
      ...
      Should it rhyme with 'teapot'?
    • Chompy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Dude, welcome to english.
  • teqory, on 10/12/2007, -7/+2***** Home Depot!
  • Protean1, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11And remember folks, throwing bricks through their store windows at midnight, however tempting it might be, is now defined as "Economic Terrorism" and can be prosecuted as such.
    • verstohlen, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2protean1, I can't tell if you're being serious or not, but people today do throw around the word "terrorist" so much and call everyone a terrorist who does any wrong little thing (compared to a REAL terrorist who bombs and kills many people) that it's lost all meaning. Terrorist? Pffft, please.
    • AxeSwinger, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Actually a terrorist is someone who uses terror as a tool.. It does not require bombs or killing a large number of people. Simply, making a populace terrified so that they change there behavior is all that's needed. From a warfare standpoint it has an exponential gain. Little investment of resources but a huge reaction from the populace. So they set people on fire in crowded squares, they kidnap and torture city officials, they can set off bombs or kill a large group of bystanders but it's not a requirement.
    • lcohiomatty86, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3i believe you are talking about the RIAA when you refer to terrorists.. what home depot is doing is shady and extremely unfair.. at least they dont randomly sue you for thousands of dollars when you dont use stuff you bought from their store in the way they want you to...
    • verstohlen, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Axeswinger, the problem with your definition of terrorist is... how does one define "terror"? That is my point. People use the word "terror" to define anything that even remotely makes them feel uncomfortable. Seeing as I've been dug down and you up only validates my theory that all the Digger chumps have completely bought into it. Sad, really.
    • AxeSwinger, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French terrour, from Latin terror, from terrEre to frighten; akin to Greek trein to be afraid, flee, tremein to tremble -- more at TREMBLE
      1 : a state of intense fear
      4 : violent or destructive acts (as bombing) committed by groups in order to intimidate a population or government into granting their demands
      synonym see FEAR
  • pronouncable, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Homer Depot: Doh!
  • DeFex, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11home depot used to be cool when the 2 guys owned it.
    Then it was sold
    Now its rip off the public to make an extra 2% for the almighty shareholders. nothing new here
  • DroogInPhoenix, on 10/12/2007, -5/+19Your best bet is to hire illegals... They want to work, and they work hard... Sure you will find a bad few, but whitey is much worst.
  • rolf, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12Home Depot contracting is way overpriced even without fraud. My brother ordered a large $500 landscape window from HD, wanted to know the installation price and they told him $6-8K. He and I installed it with a drill, hammer, silicone, and $50 of odd/ends to finish it off within 4 hours (most of the work was taking out the old window).

    Don't get Home Depot contractors.
    • GabrielS, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I'm surprised people are going directly to Home Depot for their contractors.

      Hint: Contractors are already buying most of their products from Home Depot when you hire them directly.

      If you want to change something with your house that requires the expertise and experience of contractor, hire a contractor and tell them you want products from Home Depot. You control the money. It's your house. You dictate the terms. There are hundreds of contractors to choose from. You'll get a fair market rate for labor. You should not be paying markup on prices for any of the products that are required for the job.

      When hiring a contractor, you're paying them for labor costs and nothing else.
  • onethumb, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Those guys are a nightmare. But apparently they do listen to digg/blogs/etc, because they called me shortly after I posted this:

    http://blogs.smugmug.com/onethumb/2006/12/05/worst-service-ever-home-depot-homexperts/

    Work resumed, thank goodness, but we're still not done. I'll never buy anything from Home Depot ever again. 18 months have gone by and and my "6 month kitchen" still isn't finished.
    • lcohiomatty86, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2while it is nice that they contacted you in all.. it should of never gotten to that point.. and with soo many bad stories about home depot on here.. and noone actually standing up for them.. do they actually have a purpose in the world these days? bad companies like this need to just.. die.. and disappear.. with better, moral.. treating their customers right companies take over..
    • GabrielS, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Is it Home Depot here or is the subcontractors that Home Depot is licensing?

      Seems to me like it is the subcontractors, but Home Depot shares some blame for not providing proper oversight of their officially licensed contractors.
  • geronimo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Home Depot is a classic example of how you do not want ex military running a private company. They fired their CEO recently after he instituted disastrous military-style edicts, resulting in terrible customer satisfaction and military-style head in the sand ignoring reality. He should have been fired sooner.
    • GabrielS, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The new CEO is the former deputy counsel to then Vice-President George Bush. I'm not so sure the new guy has a background any different from the previous guy.
  • Urusai, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3You can't even pay somebody to do a good job. Don't ever hire anyone to do anything if you can help it. I don't know what it is about contractors, they seem to be hardwired to ***** things up, like they are getting some kind of bonus for being incompetent. I guess they take their cue from the upper management of Corporate America.
    • GabrielS, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1You have bad contractors.

      I've been using the same Polish contractor, he's here on a green card, for all my contract work. He's amazing. His workers are all Polish immigrants to the US here on green cards as well. They're work is timely, clean, and precise. I've been recommending him to anyone I know that needs a contractor.

      He even asked me if I'd marry his wife so she could become an American citizen. That was a little too much for me. He works hard. He pays taxes. He stays out of trouble with the law. He's a good family man. He'll earn his citizenship in due time.
  • weister42, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I was just at Home Depot today and the lady didn't need a signature from me for my credit card purchase. She said any sales below $50 does not require a signature in Home Depot. Hum...........interesting.
    • austin006, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2i work in a grocery store, and that is true. actually sort of not.. the self-checkouts dont require a sig for under $50 but at a regular checkout every purchase requires one
    • austin006, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0so the lady was halfway right, but at the same time completely wrong. maybe shes new...
    • jstem1994, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I used my mother-in-law's card there many times & just signed my own name (her name was Gloria & mine is Jim).

      Obviously, I don't look like a Gloria but was never challenged, even when spending a $1000 on assorted stuff. Kinda scary.
  • austin006, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5that is the entire problem with corporations in general. who cares if you piss someone off here or there, or if you overcharge a million people and 500 or even 5000 of them find out and you refund them. maybe those 500 people will never shop at home depot, walmart, etc. theres always millions and millions more people that'll come and happily spend their money, and of couse the corps already know this, which is why they dont give a *****.
  • nosajman, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11How many diggers does it take to effect stock price in Home Depot?
    • broomett, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Yeah...Seriously...you need to come back to reality if you think Digg has ever affected ANYTHING in the real world. Less than 0.05% of the country has ever HEARD of this site. And about 1$ of them actualy visit regularly.
    • GabrielS, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1It only takes one NYSE "specialist", aka a market maker, to deplete the value of Home Depot's stock.
  • NSResponder, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2So, this makes Home Depot as sleazy as who..... Sears?

    -jcr

  • yzhang3, on 10/12/2007, -6/+1REQUEST FOR URGENT BUSINESS RELATIONSHIP

    WE ARE TOP CONTRACTORS OF THE HOME DEPOT EXPO DESIGN CENTERS WHO ARE INTERESTED IN REMODELING YOUR HOUSE WITH WORKERS PRESENTLY UNDER SKILLED. IN ORDER TO COMMENCE THIS BUSINESS WE SOLICIT YOUR ASSISTANCE IN PAYING FOR OUR HIGH QUALITY SERVICE.

    WHATEVER PROJECT YOU WANT TO COMPLETE WILL BE INVOICED AS FOLLOWS: THE HOME DEPOT OFFICIALS SET UP COMPANIES AND AWARDED CONTRACTS THAT WERE GROSSLY OVER-INVOICED.

    HOWEVER BY VIRTUE OF OUR POSITION AS SUBCONTRACTORS OF THIS COMPANY WE CANNOT ACQUIRE THIS MONEY IN OUR NAMES. I HAVE THEREFORE BEEN DESIGNATED BY MY PARTNERS IN THIS SCHEME TO LOOK FOR A SUCKER INTO WHOSE HOUSE WE WILL BE BUILDING IMPROVEMENTS. HENCE WE ARE WRITING YOU THIS LETTER.

    PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS TRANSACTION IS 100% SAFE AND GUARANTEED BY HOME DEPOT. WE HOPE TO COMMENCE THE CONSTRUCTION WITHIN SEVEN (7) DAYS FROM THE RECEIPT OF THE FOLLOWING: YOUR BANK ACCOUNT NUMBER, YOUR NAME AND COMPANY NAME ON OFFICIAL LETTERHEAD.

    WE ARE LOOKING FORWARD TO DOING BUSINESS WITH YOU AND SOLICIT YOUR CONFIDENTIALITY IN THIS TRANSACTION

    YOURS FAITHFULLY,

    BOB "the builder" NARDELLI
    • tinman79, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Though your comment is really long, I think I get it. Not too bad, however I had to digg you down for using ALL CAPS. Please turn off your caps lock.
  • insomuchas, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Home depot contractors don't set the price, the corporate does. Just talk to the guys when they come out and have them do the work on the side themselves and you will get a better deal. Believe me the contractor only gets a small percentage of what you pay home depot for their services.
    Home depot charges more than any other company around and they make a huge profit off of doing this but that is also how they afford to undersell every other supplier in retail hardware and lumber. Where else can you get construction supplies at the same exact rate that big construction companies pay major distributors for theirs? Nowhere.
  • broomett, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1The Consumerist's minions are out in full force yet again, I see.
  • kimdizzle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4i worked at home depot last year, and i must say, i am not surprised... its a poorly run company.
    • labmouse42, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I worked in their Atlanta corporate office for 3 years.

      It's a poorly run company.

      All the quality talent they had in their IT shop has been driven out by inept management.
  • deviantgirl, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I have a few tips I can share. I recently completed my kitchen remodel and that the best contractors are the ones who are highly recommended by friends and family. Or if that data isn't available, you should at least get 3 estimates from different contractors.

    Ask for:
    - license number and see if it matches the profile they have with the state. For the state of California, it's the Contractors Licensing Board: www.cslb.ca.gov
    - see if they are insured
    - ask if they employ "illegal" workers (as a homeowner, if they get hurt at the job site, you can get in trouble)
    - most importantly, ask for references and see if you can call and visit the sites. when doing this, it would help to call on a customer who had their work done at least a few months back. Therefore, you get to see the quality and durability of the workmanship.

    These steps may take a while and a lot of homework, but in the end, you get peace of mind and higher quality workmanship.
  • calcontractor, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I'm a California licensed general and painting contractor.Home depot and Lowe's have both entered the home remodeling business.They want you to believe the contractor they are sending you is the pick of the crop? what about the state yes the state of California regulates the contractors in all categories not home depot or Lowe's.The state rules that a contractor can not take any more than 10per cent down to start a job.this is for the protection of the home owner.If the contractor is not preforming then no pay until he gets the show on the road and progressive payments in proportion of the work completed.Home Depot and Lowe's control the payments? They have gotten around the rules and regulations of the Contractors State License board The people of the state of California pay taxes and the licensed contractors pay fees to be protected and have the regulations in forced so people customers homeowners do not put up all the costs up front or after a few days of work.Its time to address this problem, home depot and Lowe's have major money and power and influence, If they are taking it this far and are year by year taking over a major part of the industry worth hundreds of millions of dollars they should be licensed as contractors and fall under the same guidelines. Also because contractors like myself thousands of us and tax payers should have to pay much much less for a contractors state license board which has its contractors dominated by major corporations who take there work and make them beg for work from them. How long will it be until they control the home building industry? They have taken lots of work from my contractor friends who complain about it.There are rumors that home depot wants to build shelter next to some of there stores to keep the undocumented workers dry during the winter months? If things were set right my business a business that's been beat down because of this could have and been hiring the men who are coming home from fig hing for us in Iraq and around the world and my contractor friends too.Am I mad? No I'm sad very sad.You wonder where all the honest contractors went and why you cant find one who wont mess you over? There are many of us here very artistic with our work and take pride in our work.Home depot and Lowe's ? Oh yea you cant beat a corporation type finish, and dint complain when it beats you? Who will train the apprentices and journeyman? Did you say you could not keep men on the job, you ended up in court to straighten out the problem.The State Of California should have never let a problem like this happen. I pay to high a contractors license fee and the citizens pay to much taxes for this.I hope more people will start complaining to the Governor OF California as this dept. is a major part of his business.One last word fight to protect our borders in force our laws and keep and eye on corporate greed it has become a do or die for to many of us. Do complain and protest to the state inform everyone you can before its to late?
  • williebee, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1If you need doors, windows or woodwork for your home.
    Don't go to Home Depot or Lowes, try your local builders supply/mill shop.
    I have seen items at HD 3X the price I pay at the mill.
    As far as getting the work done.
    Drive around looking for work being done, then drop and letter for the home owner asking if they where happy with the work and if they would recommend their contractor.
  • dcormier, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1And here's where the image came from...

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/mortonfox/156228716/
  • fenderwasher, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Here’s the big problem with having HD install anything for you.

    You ask them to install a window so they go out and sub contract the job to Joe Hammer. Joe Hammer is a good guy, knows his stuff and is well qualified and licensed to install that window. Most of the time, Joe Hammer is able to get his own biz but is going thru a dry time and signs up with HD’s contracting service. Maybe he’s got 2 weeks before starting a $75,000 kitchen remodel.

    Now the problem…

    Joe Hammer usually charges $70 an hour to cover all his costs, and for a window install he estimates that it will take 4 hours. Labor estimate is therefore $280. Joe Hammer goes back to HD but they say no way. They won’t pay any more than $35 per hour, which is half his rate. His kids need some succor gear and he accepts.

    Joe Hammer picks up your window on the install day and here is where he (actually you) get screwed. Pay attention. The window is just one part of the install. In addition to the window you need various kinds of flashing, caulking, nails etc to do a proper install. This is part of the cost of putting a new window in but HD will not pay for those materials. Joe Hammer is getting only half of his normal rate and probably just breaking even on the day so he’s certainly not going to pay the extra $100 in these side materials. He can’t mention this to you because HD already quoted you a fixed price. He shows up at your house, but now instead of taking his time and doing a good job that takes 4 hours with all the needed materials he needs to hustle and get it done in 2 since that’s all he getting paid for (at his rate). He has to cut corners to make up that time. That’s pretty easy considering he doesn’t have all that flashing, caulking and proper nailing to do.

    Two weeks later your new HD window leaks. Guess what? HD rebates you $100 for your trouble but not from their wallet, it comes from Joe Hammer’s $140 ($35 per hour x 4 hours labor time). Two months later Joe Hammer finally get a check for $40 ($140 - $100 rebate to you).

    I ask you this. Why on earth would any qualified, experienced, legal, courteous and licensed contractor offer their services thru HD? Why would Joe Hammer risk his professional reputation in a small town by installing a window for you in which is has so much risk?

    I didn’t even tell you what happens if Joe Hammer has to go back and fix the window. All expenses (labor, time and material) come out of his pocket.

    HD started as a material supplier and the day they started offering services to install they became a contracting service. Regarding a comment made earlier that contractors buy their materials at HD. Quality contractors do not go near the place for a host of reasons most importantly being that HD is their competition. HD competes with them for customers. Quality contractors buy their material form large supply houses where price and product quality is far superior to HD.
  • snohman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1REGARDLESS of how or why but the question was when they were going to get caught!!!
    What kind of company tells/trains their people to inflate costs/estimates to stick it to public to put some money in their pockets? Sure they may have made a lot of money on this scam but in the long run they are going to lose $$ due to customer loyalty. F*&% Home Depot, boycott them!!!!
    What a bunch of idiots!
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