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High School Drop Out Rate Reaches Epidemic Levels

abcnews.go.com — A recent study by the Department of Education found that 31 percent of American students were dropping out or failing to graduate in the nation's largest 100 public school districts. In some cities, half of all students are dropping out.

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  • tomboy501, on 10/12/2007, -0/+24This ABC article didn't have a whole lot of information. Here's a related link: http://www.cdispatch.com/articles/2006/11/20/state_news/state01.txt

    Apparantly, the DOE has recently re-adjusted their "formula" to more accurately calculate high school drop-out rates - and these new, rather alarming numbers are the results. I assume the new formulas apply nationwide.
    • sniper6121, on 10/12/2007, -31/+1131% is shocking our society is getting too lazy, which makes people dumber and dummer...
    • theblooms, on 10/12/2007, -16/+115Want to know how to fix the schools? Disband the Department of Education. It has been an ABYSMAL failure, sucking billions of dollars into itself with nearly no oversight. Ever since Carter started it in 1980, our schools have gone to absolute *****.

      Give the power of education back to the States, where it belongs, and destroy this ungodly bureaucracy.

      Remember, the Government that governs least, governs best.



    • armbar, on 10/12/2007, -10/+21theblooms,

      I think that's a good idea. A good outcome would be competition among states to have the best schools, which would benefit the state with the best schools economically in the long run. The current method is basically socialism, which motivates only the best of us.
    • kingfoot, on 10/12/2007, -25/+9no it would force more tests like the wasl on us for no reason at all. the wasl is already completely pointless (at least in highschool) why don't they teach us stuff we need to know, real life skills, completely pointless to know advanced algebra compared to how to fix your car if it breaks down on the freeway.
    • shirosamurai, on 10/12/2007, -12/+29@theblooms

      I applaud you for suggesting we turn schools over to the state, rather than the usual drivel I hear around here, which is to privatize each and every one of them.

      Reforms, transfer of power to states = good
      Privatization = horrible
    • wbreim, on 10/12/2007, -23/+13The key is to admit the TRUTH! NOT EVERYONE is cut out for high school...... think back to your high school years and think about all the ***** who didn't learn *****...! we need "technical schools" with MORE help and specially trained teachers for those people... im not talking about handicapp im talking about plain dumb kids. that would ease up the school for those who really want to learn. Just to stay in regular high you should have to maintain a 3.0 GPA or more... otherwise you're slacking off and deserve the boot.
    • shockertwin, on 10/12/2007, -10/+17@sniper6121

      Are you a teacher? If so please tell me which school you teach in. Hopefully by avoiding your english class my kids can do better than i did.

      Not everyone drops out because they are lazy dumb ass. Many have much better reasons. Like poor english teachers.
    • MioTheGreat, on 10/12/2007, -3/+26Learning math in high school has a higher purpose than learning math. You gain some pretty nice logic skills from it, and it's probably a good thing to do while the brain is developing, or something...Besides, I wouldn't call what high schools teach 'advanced' algebra.
    • organon, on 10/12/2007, -8/+21@ kingfoot

      If you only want to learn what you REALLY need in life, then all you need to know is eating, *****, ***** and cheating. Sorry, but that's not the kind of people I want to represent my species. You know, without algebra, you wouldn't be able to post here on digg. Since there would be no digg. And no computers. And no electricity out of wall sockets. Not even walls actually.
      Sure, schools may suck more often than not. But the problem isn't what is in the scholl books (most of the time actually), the problem is how it is organized and what is in YOUR head.
      And if you drop out, you will never be able to come up with a better school system.
    • wpc105, on 10/12/2007, -2/+25@wbreim

      "we need "technical schools" with MORE help and specially trained teachers for those people..."

      Dude, don't slam technical schools. I went to college and have a college degree. I work in payroll administration. Some kid who went to technical school and became a plumber would make two to four times my salary.

      What we need to look at is the end results of the kids dropping out. If they are dropping out and still becoming productive members of society, don't worry about it. If they are dropping out, not able to make ends meet, and becoming a drain on society, we need to seriously examine things.
    • pgoetz, on 10/12/2007, -15/+7@theblooms

      Do you have any evidence to back up your claims, or are you simply blowing smoke out your ass on general libertarian principles?
    • quasipalm, on 10/12/2007, -7/+23Milton Friedman was right, we need vouchers. Only when parents have a choice of where to send their children will schools have any incentive to improve. Any system without competition will end up corrupt and bureaucratic.
    • theblooms, on 10/12/2007, -12/+5@pgoetz

      Schools before 1980 were OK. Schools after 1980 have been absolute *****.

      But I guess to you that is just pure coincidence, isn't it? To quote Office Barbrady (who can't read by the way!) "Nothing to see here! Move along!"

    • Gorlof75, on 10/12/2007, -3/+32Actually theBlooms might be right. My mother has been a school teacher (2nd grade) for 25 years and school boards continually force her to change her corriculum and make her dumb it down. For example 17 years ago (when I was in 2nd grade) she would teach her kids multiplication, division, and even long division. By 10 years ago she was no longer able to teach them long division because she wasn't given the time to. 5 Years ago she had to drop division altogether because "she wasn't allowed" to teach it. And it looks like now she isn't even allowed to teach much multiplication.

      I think moving the Education from Federal to State would be a great idea. I also think technical schools are a great idea. Look at countries like Germany. If you don't do well enough in middle school you are sent to a technichal highschool and you don't go to college. The tech schools get the kids ready to an apprentice and when they graduate they follow the apprentice, journeyman, master route. This gets them good pay and they can be proud of what they do. Plus these people are always going to be needed by society. Who else is going to fix your plumbing, build your houses, and clean your offices?
    • AlphaEta, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11@wbreim

      I agree that we need more options when it comes to educating our population, and I like your idea of "technical school" as an alternative to traditional high school. However, why should technical training be reserved for people who, according to you, are "plain dumb kids"? I know many tradespeople who are at least as smart my stuffy Ivy League colleagues. I would suggest you spend next summer (based on your comment, I assume you are young and still in school) in a de facto technical school (i.e. a real job) and your outlook will change dramatically. One day life will humble you, as it does everyone!
    • lordTalus, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12@quasipalm

      vouchers will only work for parents who care about their children. The state of education has nothing to do with our college educated teachers and everything to do with a ***** bureaucracy demanding endless testing and worthless parents.
    • glock22ownr, on 10/12/2007, -14/+3@wbreim :

      Teknikal skoolz kood helpt u to...
    • eplawless, on 10/12/2007, -4/+26I dropped out of high school three years ago, because I was so sick of the school system, and I was doing really badly. I completed my last few courses by correspondence and my average jumped up 30%. I'm now on a $10,000 dollar scholarship to university. So maybe it isn't the kids that are the problem. Maybe it's the school system.
    • g0rdy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@ kingfoot -

      Real world stuff is what mom and dad are supposed to teach... oh wait... what about the single parent families? Well there you have it, the circle of crap is complete mom/dad abandon the family and the kiddos miss out on real word education...
    • twtmc, on 10/12/2007, -1/+17Unfortunately our schools don't actually work on teaching students anything, they focus on making the students memorize answers and regurgitate useless information. I have a group of friends who's averages range from 94% to 105% in grades 10-12, and most of them can't apply any of the knowledge for *****. They are stupid, to put it bluntly (still nice people, but my god are they stupid; one tried to cut sheet metal with a table saw and was shocked to see sparks). After spending as much time with them as I did, I have stopped caring about grades. I am very vocal about how little I care about grades, and that I do not show up to do well at school (I'm tired of all this ***** about achieving that they put on everything). A couple of my teachers in the past have asked me why I show up, and I simply tell them that I am there to learn, not to regurgitate. As I go off to college (hopefully), I will carry the same ideal. If need be, I will sit in on as many classes I can if they don't accept me in
    • Nistavar, on 10/12/2007, -10/+5Nistavar hates his school.... which is why he stays home sometimes to learn things I actually care about! [Japanese ( He's unable play any good DS games without it.), C++, learning other random things for no reason other than to know more > others.) Honestly he learns more outside of school then he does inside of school, which leads him to conclude that school is a place of learning as much as Oblivion is a RPG.

      /Third Person FTW

    • xenuxenuts, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5"why don't they teach us stuff we need to know, real life skills"
      When I was in HS, there are electives that teach that stuff. Home Ec, shop, etc. At one time, more parents were able to teach their kids that. But now, quite a few are working 50-60 hour weeks and/or working 2nd or 3rd shift. That doesn't give them much time to parent. There's your American family values.
    • LogicBomB, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12There are 2 huge problems with schools right now:

      1. Students ONLY want to learn what they want and avoid what they don't because "i'll never use it". The internet is a HUGE factor because what they need to know is at their fingertips - the work is already done for them. They think "if I need it, i'll just look it up".

      2. School focuses on memorization - This is horrible. The whole point of being in school is to learn HOW to learn. Learning how to go about solving a complex problem, expecially in a group is PARAMOUNT. School is also important to give students a minimum breadth of skills and knowledge which they can apply in different situations later in life. School needs to have more essays and problem solving activities and less "memorize the answers". Learning how to get the answer is the focus, not what the answer is.

      If I had this outlook while in school, I would have enjoyed it a whole lot more.
    • coreyb, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12I dropped out of school because I was not challenged. Once I got into college I pulled 3.9 - 4.0s in higher-level courses and was given the standardized IQ test and scored a 164 at 17. I did not get anything above a d in high school, middle school or elementary. I was not an idiot, I did not smoke pot, I was BORED.

      What needs to happen is for schools to stop teaching to the lowest common denominator. Kids want to learn more, faster and its relevance to their world. Teachers now cannot even do basic algebra without studying a text book the night before. How are they supposed to teach our kids the relevance of, say, calculus, much less how to do it?!

      My 2 cents...
    • ICSU, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3It gotta happen to a wealthy nation. You can be uneducated, lazy and still survive quite nicely.
    • jasoneisen, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@ eplawless:

      Same here, though I chose to not even continue into college. I got my GED a year before I would have graduated HS and have been working for great pay writing software ever since.

      It seems to me that the only thing schools do is instill FUD within their students that they are unable to make anything of themselves without following their path. I was constantly bombarded with threats that I would amount to nothing when I dropped out, regardless of how smart I was or how much drive I had to make something of myself. Because of that, I stepped back and saw our schools for what they were, and decided that I didn't want to have anything to do with them. They were hurting me more than they were benefiting me. Dropping out was the best decision I have ever made.

      This is not to say that it is not a great thing to get PhD's and become doctors and scientists. Things like that require years of training and and experience.

      But it's when you're still young and have a dream and the passion to make it happen (and are perhaps a little naive, but so what?) that it's absolutely critical to do whatever it takes to keep that dream alive. When you're in school, and all you hear is "wait until you get your degree," that dream, beginning 4 or 6 years away, can only get smaller and smaller, farther and farther, especially when owning that degree is going to be of no benefit to your realization of it. You're lucky if you can incorporate it into your studies somehow, but very often that is not the case.

      That was not the case with me. I took a different path, and it has made all the difference.
    • benjpw, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3@theblooms - my parents are both administrators in a heavily locally controlled school district and the one thing they wish for is MORE power to the Dept. of Education.

      They are constantly battling anti-evolution nutjobs and funding cuts from the state and local levels (esp. with property taxes) and the one saving grace is federal funding and legislation on minimum requirements for education.

      Reganomics didn't work in the 80s and it doesn't work now - just look at the state of our public schools. :)
    • korehyun, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5@ oxigen

      "The more morons who drop out, the better"

      Are you serious???? That right there ladies and gentlemen is the reason why our education system is one of the worst in the world.. That right there is one of the reasons why so many kids are dropping out of school. I sincerely hope sir, That you are not serious about "almost being a teacher" Because you have no buisness being in the profession.
    • PowerCow, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4You should look up the dept of education. And while i agree with the blooms to a point he is only making so much noise because it is a "carter" program.
      "little over sight"? lol as commpared to what other agencies?
      Anyway the dept of education was not put in place to decide how we learn and most of the power is still with the states.
      the dept of education was put in place to make sure that civil rights, and privacy and to figure out how to best distribute federal finacing(like any gov program this last part is what causes the most problems) and to come up with certain standards for college accrediation(which is a good thing). It was designed as well to keep religion from hijacking public schools(they are free to have as many private schools as they want). The dept of education wasnt concerned at all with indivual schools and how they functioned or taught, that was left up to the states as theblooms suggests. It was President Bush and his no child left behind that started the US dept of education to be concerned ith grades and teachers.
      The only problem with the dept that carter made was that they worked out were the money went and I am all for restructuring but the dept of education is needed to keep our schools from degrading into christian sharia schools, to keep schools from forcing black people to the back of the bus, to keep schools from bloacking clubs they disagree with, to keep schools following american rules. ANd sorry but that is a good thing.
      But most scholl systems are not corrupted at the federal level, most of the money comes from local taxes, most of the beurocracy comes from local school boards. In my own state we pay too much for the beurocrats and not enough for the training, we actually pay the superattendant to schools more than our actual govenor.. and this was all without advice from washington. SO dont think that dismantling the dept of educ and leaving it to the states will be a pancea. You need to restructure it from the ground up.
      You really should look up the dept of education because most of you who are agreeing with theblooms are misinformed. But like i said in the beginning i agree mostly with theblooms, just not his solutions.
    • hackwrench, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1No, not lazy. They're finally getting wise to the fact that the process of schooling is actually harmful.
      http://hometown.aol.com/tma68/7lesson.htm
    • jjb123, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I really don't care about people dropping out. I am in High School and all the people I know who want to drop out care nothing about their futures and would just be wasting tax dollars because they don't even want to learn. (Someone has to do the ***** jobs, right?) What we need to do is get them interested in learning and give power to the states.

      Also, don't most of the people in England leave high school at 16? (Not sure)
    • sniper6121, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1@my previous comment: I purposely spelled dumber wrong! Some people on this site are way to anal it was a joke!
    • jguy584, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3The kids who get all A's and such in school (for the most part, some are just straight all around gifted) are usually complete idiots when you hang out with them in real life. My sister is a great example of this.

      She can take notes, study, and do what she is asked to do like no other. However when it comes to real life situations, she is totally retarded. She cannot carry an intelligent conversation with anyone, unless its about yesterdays history test. I had to drive to the train station the other day to explain the train schedule chart to her because she couldn't figure it out for the life of her. Good grades aren't gonna get you far in the work world if you cant even figure out how to get to work...

      Grades != intelligence
  • Irimi, on 10/12/2007, -2/+24At a lot of (or a few?) colleges the dropout rate is at 60 percent.. so it doesn't sound like we're doing that good...

    A Professor once told me the secret to graduating college is to, "consistently try. You may not be first in your class but you will finish with a degree."
    • MrMysterious, on 10/12/2007, -1/+45There is a huge difference in dropping out of high school and dropping out of college.
    • Anrkist, on 10/12/2007, -21/+3Yeah big difference.. you can drop out of high-school and still go to college and get a good job. If you drop out of college, you can become a janitor.
    • jarek91, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13@Anrkist

      Let's try not to generalize too much. I dropped out of college and now hold a position as IT Director for my company. There are some fields where experience and specialized training outweigh the college degree.
    • Nightfall, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5jarek91:
      There are going to be exceptions. Just as I am sure that there are some high school dropouts that have had a lot of success. It is just the odds are against them. Same goes for people like yourself who find themselves in an IT Director position. You have a great job and against the odds nonetheless. You should be proud of your accomplishments. However, the odds of many many others doing the same thing? Not good.

      If anything, your hard work to get as far as you have gotten should mean that you are pushing others to go to college and get that degree. Getting a degree in a field that is in demand is the way to a good paying job. Its a proven fact that people who graduate from college make much more than those who just graduate from high school. Same goes for people who graduate high school over those who don't.

      Hopefully, you will at least agree with that.
    • mhockey14221, on 10/12/2007, -0/+16College ISNT for everyone, high school SHOULD be for everyone
    • argoff, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11In all fairness, the US is in the post industrial era entering into the information age. There is no reason in the world why people couldn't make it nicely with just a few hours of work per week with just a few hours of study per week. So why are things not that way? Well, because we don't have an education problem, nor even a technology skills problem, but a freedom and liberty problem. All the other problems are just symptoms of this problem and all the other problems will go away once this problem is addressed.

      We nickle and dime away peoples economic liberty, and then rather than relent when it causes problems we go off and say "well you need a college education now", "well your wife needs to work too now", "well, you need to go 30 years into debt to buy a home now", "well we need to force kids into high pressure academic programs now". No you don't! When you take away peoples economic freedoms, and it makes it harder for them to succeed, the solution isn't to put people on a treadmill and make them work harder for success, the solution is to give them back their economic liberties that you had no right to take away from them to begin with.

      Between the fed central bank watering down the value of our currency every year, forcing debt down peoples throats, and total cumulative taxes reaching over 50 percent of most peoples incomes. Now we are suddenly surprised when people can't make it and get burnt out? I'm not.
    • Anrkist, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Fair enough.. it's not impossible.. but it is getting harder and harder to get a job without a degree. I don't recall putting my High-School down on my resume.. how many people actully do that? I just don't see the importance of HS.. maybe when your 18 you do but if you are over 22, it's meaningless.
  • defectDS, on 10/12/2007, -5/+33It's that gosh-darn rap hippin'hop music!
  • oOLiquidNightOo, on 10/12/2007, -2/+52could someone read this article to me please.
  • jermscentral, on 10/12/2007, -3/+45Is our children learning?
  • professorChaos, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8yah i never really experienced kids dropping out im from a ***** small town my graduating class had 37 kids and was the biggest in 20 years
    • IEatHamburgers, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5The article said the 100 *largest* school districts. Your small town district likely doesn't qualify, and those districts are almost certainly in metro areas. (If they're counting by area, then it's the opposite, and those small town districts are what they're studying. I doubt that's the case though.)

      Either way, it's not surprising that they're dropping out, whether they be gangstas or rednecks.
    • jiggleflop, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@Ieathamburgers

      Statistically, Hispanic dropout rates are highest, over half of all dropouts in Houston, blacks and "red-neck" dropouts are relatively few.

      Fell free to visit the Texas Education website and see the stats for yourself...
  • sfacets, on 10/12/2007, -28/+3Quit highschool? Three options:
    *Military (if your IQ is low emough)
    *Mc Donalds dude
    *Priest (probably a paedophile one)

    Moral? Stay in school and spend the rest of your life paying off student loans.
    • antonio97b, on 10/12/2007, -5/+13Low "emough" eh?

      I guess you are a perfect millitary candidate then.

      I'm all for people dropping out of high school. After all, I don't want to pump my own gas or have a shortage of bag boys. ;)
    • LosingTheFight, on 10/12/2007, -8/+30Excuse me kind sir, but please eat *****.

      "*Military (if your IQ is low emough)"

      I have a BS in CS with a 4.0 GPA, graduated top of my class in high school with 2 varsity letters. I am 22 and halfway done my master's degree. O, by the way, I AM IN THE MILITARY. I joined to serve my country, not because I had nothing else to do because I was too stupid. Don't make stupid comments about our troops. At least we are doing something for our country. We are not stupid, and please remember that many technologies you use everyday were either invented by or refined by the military, such as the Internet.

    • dshPls, on 10/12/2007, -24/+4I quit highschool, and at 19 I guarantee I make more money than you.



      I invested my time in learning actual job skills instead of ***** around, wasting my time. As a interactive designer, I've done work for Marilyn Manson and Choice Hotels, not to mention I got a scholarship too, but after two semesters I (ironically) quit and started working fulltime again.
    • seithon, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Or...
      You could learn a trade and make money that way.
    • theblooms, on 10/12/2007, -9/+11sfacets wrote "Military (if your IQ is low emough)" (sic)

      Check it out! John Kerry frequents Digg!

    • theblooms, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12I have a couple of friends who are tradesmen. One is a plumber and the other is a HVAC guy. Both do quite well for themselves and make a little bit more than I do. But I (with my BS in Chemistry) work in A/C not sweating in the heat, nor wallowing in *****.

      I asked my plumber friend how he puts up with the smell of other people's *****. He said "It smells like money!"

      Eww.
    • darkstar949, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@LosingTheFight - To be fair it does depend on what branch of the service you are in, generally Airmen are a bit more education than those in the Army, and the ASVAB scores needed to enlist in the various branches are part of the reason for this. The site below breaks out the scores needed for each branch.

      http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/genjoin/a/asvabminimum.htm
    • neoform, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8LosingTheFight:
      Would you say that you represent the average solider in the US military?
    • infl00p, on 10/12/2007, -8/+1@LosingTheFight
      no useful technology was invented or improved/refined by any military.

      Civilian personnel/scientists working for government institutes or military funded projects do the discovery/invention part. The military only tests and deploys.
    • WackyT, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3"Check it out! John Kerry frequents Digg!"

      Exactly what I was thinking. And yet this is what Americans want in charge. Boggles the mind.
    • raisinbran, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@antonio97b

      "I'm all for people dropping out of high school. After all, I don't want to pump my own gas or have a shortage of bag boys. ;)"

      Off topic, but where do you (and everyone else) live that you don't have to pump your own gas? Around here, I don't think there's a full service station for 200 miles. The only state I know of that has full service stations is NJ, but I don't live there.

      Also, whenever I go to the grocery store I have to bag my own groceries because they've changed most of the check-out lanes to the computerized Self-Checkout ones.

      :(
    • theblooms, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1There is actually a real honest to god Service Station about 4 miles from me here in Columbia, SC. They even have a wrecker, and will fix your car if need be. Other than that one single station, I haven't seen one in the over 20 years since I have been driving.

      Wow, I'm getting old as *****! *****!

    • 5blocksfree, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2@losingthefight -> We are not stupid, and please remember that many technologies you use everyday were either invented by or refined by the military, such as the Internet.

      I have no doubt there are shining stars within the military. It's the leadership that worries me...think "command-in-chief".
  • mikefitz2, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6A push for more vocational style courses would make sense. If the kids don't plan to continue on to high ed, why not offer a trade skill during their years in high school so they can graduate and benefit society. A lot of trade classes can be fun too, which is probably why most of these kids are dropping out; they are bored with the states required curriculum.
    • darkstar949, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I've always been partial to this idea myself - a trade route for those that do not wish to go to college when they graduate when they can begin learning a trade and focus a bit less on pure academics, and a pre-college route for those that plan on pursing higher education. It would be interesting to see if the graduation rates would increse as those with less interest in academics could potentially focus on something a bit more interesting to them.
    • KibibyteBrain, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Or perhaps if we just offered more flexible class routines in general. I am a junior Computer Engineering student and felt that most of my high school education was a total waste in pointless English classes that were too close minded and censored to serve any good in analyzing literature, etc. Also, most states' incredibly stupid requirements on foreign language are insane. Physical education can follow suite. Why not offer more pre-engineering or pre-med or pre-law type classes in high school. I know by experience that many such classes would work in a HS environment. They may prove to rightfully disgruntled high school students that college offers a much more intellectually satisfying experience.
  • brstilson, on 10/12/2007, -4/+32Want to save the schools? Disband the teacher's union. This organization has done more to hold American kids back than any other. Because of the teacher's union, parents are forced to send their children to school in their district, regardless of the school's performance, good teachers cannot be rewarded, bad teachers cannot be punished.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfRUMmTs0ZA

    John Stossel's "Stupid in America"
  • wbrendel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+19This is my favorite quote from the article:

    "Sheriff Jerry Brogdon of Berrien County, Ga., sees those consequences every day at the Berrien County Jailhouse. He said that '81.2 percent of the inmates we have in here today is high school dropouts.'"
    • Flopy, on 10/12/2007, -7/+1Actually, it's used correctly in this context. The 'is' is referring to 'percent', not to 'inmates'. It would be akin to saying '81.2 percent IS a high number' or something to that effect, as opposed to 'inmates is dropouts' which is obviously incorrect.
    • Matadon, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@Floppy:

      Um, no, it's not. How can a number drop out of high school? I didn't even realize that numbers *went* to school; I just thought they hung out in R.

      Compare these two sentences:

      "Fifty percent of people is using proper grammar."
      "Fifty percent of people are using proper grammar."
  • John47, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9We are creating an entire generation of illiterate, innumerate morons. I am really concerned about my Social Security! Goddamned kids! Get off my lawn!
  • darkened, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12Back in my college speech class we ended up doing a student government bit where we lobbied for and against mock bills and one of them was increasing the budget for public schooling.

    I was the only person in the entire class that opposed it and actually called for budget cut backs. And my reasoning for that is the clear failure it is and that throwing money at the problem makes it worse and makes us pay more in taxes.

    I'm from Harrisburg PA (my states capitol no less) and our "Harrisburg High School" is one of the most abysmal failures prolly in the whole country. Approximately 30% of freshman entering actually graduate the rest drop out or fail out. Now a neighbor of mine went to this high school graduated valedictorian got a full ride for engineering to a good college and was hired out of college starting at $100k/yr in less than a year another company paid for him to move to Cali gave him a place to live a car of Lexus caliber and $200k/yr salary. Education is what you make out of it, no amount of money in the world will fix dumb ass students just wanting to be failures in life.

    Now this same school, managed to get 5 million dollars to spend to build a brand new football stadium with Astroturf. So instead of trying to do anything about the students just not staying there they spend 5 million dollars on a nice looking football field. I mean they might as well just take my money put it in a pile and burn it in front of me.
    • Jagdhund, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Yep, the football programs sucked money away from our high school too. Then again, it was argued that the football team brought in revenue for the school. I cannot think that it would be nearly so much as spent on it, but I haven't seen the numbers.

      In other news... I've heard of and seen many kids with no supervision around at all times of day, clearly not in school. Where are the parents, where is the concern? How should we keep these losers in school (they are losers, after all, since they choose such a fate for themselves). I don't think we could make it mandatory to pass high school, because that would only promote cheating to let bad students go (which already happens, I've seen it with a few moronic football players). But what could be done to keep them in, and keep them interested in getting an actual education and not a future job as an aspiring 'rap artist', drug dealer, or basketball/football star (unrealistic jobs, except maybe the drug dealer).

      I agree with some of the above posters in that it should be a competition between the states. In that way, it draws people to live in places with high quality education (I know I would move if I knew my kids would be better off for it). States rights need to make a comeback, because big brother gov't is much too ineffecient.
    • greymarketbrain, on 10/12/2007, -9/+0You do know that "prolly" is not a real word, don't you?
    • zeero, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I don't see anything wrong with dumbing down the people The ones that actually want to succeed and have a goal in life will overcome this, and become CEO's and higher ups that all the dumbasses work for. This just makes it easier for us (the ones wanting to do something with our lives)
      Also, stupid people don't question the government... which is why bush is still in power.
      They dumb the population down, then they do whatever they want no questions asked.
  • NakedSnake, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Someone has got to make the sandwiches.

    All kidding aside, if anyone is particularly familiar with the way school systems work it's easy to understand why the US is falling behind other countries.

    Some of my worst memories from high school were reading Tess D'Urbervilles and Wuthering Heights. I know, I know, these are supposed to be classics, and those type of arguments, but in all seriousness has nothing better been written in the last 50 years or so that I could more easily relate to? I enjoy reading and I found the books to be torturous to try and crawl through, let alone someone with a distaste for reading in general or a low reading level.
    • kent1146, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7NakedSnake:

      Yes, somebody has to make the sandwiches. But my sandwiches are important to me. If some person couldn't get highschool right, then I *certainly* don't trust them to get my sandwich right. Especially with all of the toppings I want on mine.

      And as much I hated crappy books like Wuthering Heights, it taught me two VERY important lessons:
      1) You can't always do what you like. Sometimes you gotta slog through the crap you hate to get to the finish line.
      2) Once you graduate high school, *you* get to decide what goes on your bookshelf (it's a metaphor).
    • NakedSnake, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4OH No Kent, I agree, I meant to say that if you're trying to appeal to a wide variety of people and mandating a book to read and you want the kids to take something away from it Wuthering Heights would no be my first choice. I think anyone alive today would have a hard time with that language or relating to that time period. For every student like you or me who slogged through it, there were a few who really, genuinely didn't get what was going on; and educators don't understand why kids are turned off to reading or English class. Remember this is High School here, not a college literature course. They run courses like that and then they are surprised by a high attrition rate?
    • Jagdhund, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I absolutely agree. We were made to read horrendous books that very few english majors would enjoy, much less the average (or below average) student.

      Heart of Darkness was hated by the whole class (save me), and so was Great Expectations (and I still hate Dickens for that load of crap). Those are just two of many.
    • founderofpork, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I hated 90% of the books I read in high school. I'm an English major in college now and I've always been an avid reader. High School curriculum is a complete joke that couldn't be less interesting to your average high schooler. But public school is not about teaching kids to think. It's about teaching kids to conform and not to question anything. That's why most people come out of high school feeling resentful about the whole damn experience, and thanks to the ***** that got shoveled into their heads in high school they hate learning/reading/thinking for the rest of their lives.

      Public High school is a ***** joke as it currently stands.
  • douggmc, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15Obligatory Simpson's quote:

    "Me fail english? That's unpossible!"
    • jellyroll713, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4It's a perfectly cromulent word...
  • dvfreelancer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9No child left behind. What a joke. Another failed policy from a failed administration.

    Time to dump Dept. of Education. Give the money to run that bloated, useless bureaucracy back to the states and let them build more schools and lower teacher/student ratios. The things that will actually work.

    But if people stay in school and the nation gets smarter overall...then who's going to stock shelves at Wal-Mart? How will I get my fast food? Who will be left to detail my car and build my fence? Oh, the horror! The horror!
    • kent1146, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8In regards to the stocking shelves, serving fast food, pumping gas, etc... those have always been, and will continue to be done by cheap, immigrant labor. The reason that America was able to rise to power so quickly (200 years) is because of its cheap immigrant labor (sometimes free labor, in the case of slavery).

      An uneducated populace is intended for two things:
      1) An uneducated, ignorant population requires less public services, and thus, less money from a rich man's pocket.
      2) An uneducated, ignorant population is easier to control.

    • armbar, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8No Child Left Behind is an extension of Clinton's educational reform, which was the undoing of Reagan's ideas, which were the undoing of Carter's ideas. None of those administrations succeeded in what they did. In short, you can't blame the current situation on 6 years of administration, when the problem has been noticeably bad for more than 30 years.
    • jiggleflop, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@kent1146

      Nope, you are wrong, those jobs are now filled by cheap immigrant labor, but that has only happened within the last fifteen years.

      I have alwys lived in the fourth largest city in the US. All my peers stocked groceries, mowed lawns, threw papers, and served Big Mac's; almost all of us were white except for some blacks and a few Hispanics.

      I mowed laws, installed vinyl siding, cleaned buildings, served hamburgers, and worked in a movie theater when I was in school.

      The way it worked was school kids needed evening and summer jobs. These jobs built character and provided our first employment experience. Many of my peers started this way and continued on to college and high paying jobs.

      Today, instead of a smiling young adults serving me food or cleaning up the tables, I get old grown immigrants who hardly speak English. How are High school kids supposed to work these jobs when all their coworkers are in their forties and only speak broken English?

      My opinion on why the average kid today is getting lazier is because they don't have jobs anymore.
    • g0rdy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Right-On the money -
      "My opinion on why the average kid today is getting lazier is because they don't have jobs anymore."
    • riah, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Illegal aliens, of course. And the rest is outsourced.
    • geekee, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"No child left behind. What a joke. Another failed policy from a failed administration."

      I figure no child left behind has to be pretty good, because it really pisses off the teachers' unions. No doubt in practice it's been totally corrupted already, however, since it's a govt. program.
  • greg544, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Every generation is full of illiterates. A big fallacy everyone is under is that this is a tragedy. People that work hard will succeed at some level. High drop out rates just mean we have people in school that do not belong there. We need more vocational education in America. By sixth grade, you should have the option of switching to a vocational if you want to. We should let them out of school after 10th grade. Everyone who wants to go the academic route would benefit.
  • betona, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1Get off my lawn and get back to school!

    /Studied calculus, organic chemistry, physics, German and other easy classes in high school.
    //Friday Night Lights? Yeah, that was where I went to high school. ya really
  • commonsense2009, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8Its very simple....run all the low performing schools like Military Academies. We've taken student accountability out of the schools. Most kids aren't learning anywhere close to their full potential because other kids disrupt classes too much and the teacher's hands are way beyond tied.
    ACLU and LIberals are taking student accountability out of the schools.
    • digitalblue1313, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0Remember when the ACLU defended your boy Rush when he was busted for drugs?
    • commonsense2009, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Rush is boring. I'm for legalizing drugs though.
    • g0rdy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3He's right the liberals have removed all accountability of the schools and pump out gender-less, over-self-esteemed, narcissitc sheeple..
    • mrbrant, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I would have to agree at least to a small extent.

      These days students seem to have more rights than teachers (I say this as a current High School student) and the teachers are more concerned with keeping everyone happy and not hurting anyone's feelings rather than teaching them what they want.

      Teachers also are afraid to fail students. If I was a teacher I would fail low performing students. It is not the job of a teacher to make a student care. It is their job to educate them; what they do with that education is up to them.
  • KnightMareInc, on 10/12/2007, -10/+2The public school system has been starved of resources for so long by republicans im not suprised.This will only continue unless something is done to bring it to the 21st century.
    • jellyroll713, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Yes, because everyone knows we haven't already thrown enough money at the POS Department of Education. This problem requires rational thinking.

      Yes, I know it's hard.
    • KnightMareInc, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1teachers are paid less than garbage men.Public schools are forced to hire non english speakers and/or high school drop outs.
  • LoneRanger85, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13I walked into my son's high school in North Hollywood once and the principal was trying to talk some kid out of dropping out of high school. Since I was in my battle dress uniform, I guess the principal thought I could lend a hand and called me over. I said, "Hey, not everyone needs an education. No matter how advanced this country gets, we'll still need people to pick up the garbage and scrape dead dogs off the freeway." And then I said to the kid, "You won't get rich, but you'll make enough to put beer on the table. You speak Spanish? You'll fit right in then." I walked away, leaving BOTH of them with their jaws hanging open. I have a feeling the kid at least stayed in high school.

    By the way, I spent 24 years in the military and I have an associates in public communications, a BA in computer science and a masters in business. Oh, and I speak three languages.
    • jellyroll713, on 10/12/2007, -5/+0Jesus, why do we have to send all the scholars away to war?
  • farkdog, on 05/20/2008, -1/+13Life is tough. It's tougher if you're stupid.
  • Michalson, on 10/12/2007, -6/+10So....

    Approximately 1/3 of Americans think Iraq was behind 9/11
    Approximately 1/3 of Americans think WMD have been found in Iraq
    Approximately 1/3 of Americans don't know what year 9/11 occurred

    And now approximately 1/3 of (young) Americans are too stupid to pass highschool.

    I wonder if there is perhaps something, or someone, else this 1/3 segment of the population, shown to be retarded beyond belief, agree on. Something that the other 2/3's of America disapproves of. Hmm......
    • themacx, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2yeah well, 1/3 of Americans are officially qualified hamburger meat.

    • Jagdhund, on 10/12/2007, -8/+2Go take a statistics or logic class before making comments like that.
  • kavaliro, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10If I could go back, I'd have dropped out, too. Or more accurately, I'd have taken the GED, gone and enrolled in a community college, and THEN dropped out. I didn't learn anything new in high school. Largely, it was a popularity experiment that lasted four years, crossed with a minimum security prison sentence that I had to serve for only half the day(complete with prison guards, in most schools!)
    So that's what I recommend whenever I am asked by a teenager: Get your GED, enroll in college, and THEN (only then) drop out, as soon as possible.
    • ohearn, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2The only reason I didn't drop out of high school was that I spent more time the last couple years of it running the schools computer labs and network than in class. I was so bored most of the time that I really didn't see much point in staying because so few of the classes were teaching me anything when I could have easily gotten my GED and started college early.

      At least having done so much for the school did get me some really good references for my college applications and helped me get the scholarship that paid for my undergrad.

      As to why I was running the network and all the computer labs, the sys admin was too busy having to teach all the computer courses and the German class because all those teachers moved to the next state over (only 30 mile to the state line) because that state paid 25% better to its teachers. The only GOOD teachers we had were in the math and science departments, but that was because most of them taught at the local college at night and for the summers and at the HS during the day.
  • Horseshoe, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Sounds like Miami-Dade County....

    Folks, if you are considering moving a business to Miami Florida, or your family here, you will have to contend with a poor school system.

    Don't do it, I will be moving out as soon as my child is of school age.

    If you like adult fun, this place is great. But it's not a family town, unless you happen to arrive on a raft and don't know any better...
    • digitalblue1313, on 10/12/2007, -5/+0Horseshoe,

      So you don't like Miami because of all the Cubans. Or, is it because you are not in the majority there?
    • g0rdy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Way to put a spin on it digitaldoo-doo1313, he was saying not everyone knows its a party-town
  • dwhitbeck, on 10/12/2007, -6/+2Duh, I dont need no edjamakation.
  • tont0r, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4yes my children! keep dropping out and make me degree worth more! muwahaha!
  • CapnMarrrrk, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8High school is the end of the process beginning primary and middle school. I think the pedagogy is broken. Teachers are still working within a system that trains children to become mindless factory workers in a society that doesn't need them. The system is designed to squash creativity and critical thinking while teaching the child to blindly obey authority.

    Teachers themselves know this, but are hampered by having to teach standards. Teachers are pressured to teach X, Y and Z by test time, and the kids better pass or else either the teacher's job is in jeopardy or the school loses funding.

    That said, kids have also not been taught how to effectively learn. From personal experience, I didn't know I was smart until I was 18 because I didn't know how to study and retain the knowledge. When I learned how to take notes, how to listen and how to participate in class, my grades took off.

    Anyway, you can't teach a 19th Century system to 21st Century kids. The system needs to change.
  • n8f8, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1It's called 4.4% unemployment. Let's fact it HS sucks for a lot of folks who would rather be earning money and starting their lives. IT would help if the ENTIRE academic system didn't snob off manual labor jobs. Cookie-cutter systems will always fail to meet 100% of the needs. And with such high employment there are real alternatives.
    • doktorrocket, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6As a corollary, I recently read that one significant effect of raising the minimum wage is a higher high school drop out rate. Basically, the higher the wage for unskilled jobs, the better that particular alternative to high school looks to those so inclined.

      Not backing any particular policy here, just thought it was one of those interesting side effects we typically overlook.
  • kerby74, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Good for them... less job competition for those of us who have expended great effort on education.
  • themacx, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1smart move.
  • daxsymbiont, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4i learn more from reading in my free time than from school.

    however, i know that may not apply to kids that wouldn't even read in their free time.
    • lordTalus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2and you would probably learn more from reading in your spare time then discussing what you have learned with others...like they did in the old days.

      I kept all of my text books from my major, and now I actually read them. To think...all I had to do was read the book and everything would have made a hell of a lot more sense...that's what I get for being a slacker.
    • daxsymbiont, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0i don't have illusions that i "learn" when i'm discussing on the the internet. i know that i'm discussing on the internet. do i have your permission?
    • lordTalus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0hi asshat...I was backing up your statement...seems you could learn the difference between 'then' and 'than', albeit I should have included a comma in my sentence.

      I will grant you permission...but only after the ceremonial giving of head.
    • daxsymbiont, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0you're right, np, digged.
  • ei8htball, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I hate to be the one to point it out, but "31 percent of American students were dropping out or failing to graduate" is kind of misleading. I couldn't tell for sure what statistics they included, but it looks like they included anyone who left without a diploma...

    I'm sure it isn't a large portion, but some people drop out to go to college... I know I did... when they say use such general categorization, it's hard to know how bad the situation is... If 6% of the students are dropping out to continue their education, then it it's actually only 1/4, not 1/3 dropping out as defined by most people, and 1/16 dropping out to continue their education. The school system has failed both groups, but in different ways.

    It'd be nice to see a more accurate story with better numbers make it to digg... I'll look around and see what I can come up with.

  • axel2k, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5Well, somebody's gotta work at McDonald's.
  • commonsense2009, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Its very simple....run all the low performing schools like Military Academies. We've taken student accountability out of the schools. Most kids aren't learning anywhere near their full potential because other kids disrupt classes too much and the teacher's hands are way beyond tied.
    ACLU and LIberals are taking student accountability out of the schools.
  • paku, on 10/12/2007, -8/+4The world needs ditch diggers too..
    • NickyBatts, on 10/12/2007, -9/+1I was JUST about to post that... great minds paku... great minds.
  • TheHolyLancer, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0What we need, ironically, is a "segregation" (its a bad word, but separation would sound weak) of schools, we need to have many levels of schools, each personalized to the student population's needs, a vocational school do not need as much technology related stuff (who needs a high end CAD work station in a vocational school? Or a extreme high speed Internet connection for multimedia assisted assignments?), but will need a high end machine shop with all the works, safety equipment that goes along with the machine shops,etc..
    While academic school could have stuff like a CVS (Concurrent Versioning System) server for the programming classes, CAD work stations for physics simulation, engineering designs, new, powerful microscopes for the labs, etc..
    This will be much more beneficial to the specific target, its like a commercial, target the demographic that works the best.
    • commonsense2009, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2Great idea....its using common sense....so the liberals and the ACLU would never let it happen.
    • digitalblue1313, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2commonsense,

      why wouldn't the ACLU and liberals let it happen. can you tell me?
  • RedLevel, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Don't try to play the blame game here. This shouldn't shoot back to ***** politics, it should focus on today's youth and getting them the education they need. Do you have to use some political push to achieve that, more than likely. But it doesn't need to turn into a war over educational power.

    Remember when you were in HS? The teachers were amazingly boring, but the rules were really strict. You had to sit there, get through it whether you enjoyed it or not. Today, teachers still suck. There are only a handful of teachers that really take pride in their job, and try their best to educate in fun ways.

    High school kids don't need paper cut out projects or stupid assignments dealing with things they will never see again. We are too focused on the 10 year old Glencoe books that are filled with pictures from the 90's.

    In my opinion, students need something to thrive off of everyday. If you are going to class first thing in the morning, expecting the same junk you probably won't want to come back. All HS students feel that way after awhile, some drop out and some stick with it.

    What needs to be done:

    Instead of being anal about lesson plans, teachers need to be a bit more random with their daily classes. Mix it up a bit. Instead of starting the class off the same way everyday with a lecture, start with some music and corny jokes. The worst class I had my senior year of HS was World Literature. My teacher was a 67 year old cigarette, who read to us EVERYDAY of the school year. We did nothing for 45 minutes everyday, but listen to her.

    I got in a lot of trouble, because I had no patience for that *****. My favorite class was History. My teacher took the time everyday to prepare new, amazing slide shows with audio/music to tie in with his lectures. He put his own money into a 7 speaker sound system and a HD projector to watch movies on. He was open to discussion, religion, politics, food, fat kids, war, ect.

    He was excellent at communication, walking around the class room when he spoke. He enforced the school rules, but he wasn't anal about them. He put world news into the classroom, which is far more valuable than a math problem you will never see again.

    If you keep the kids interested in what is going on, and let them speak I assure you attitudes will change.

    If you're a useless, lard of a teacher then this drop out rate will continue to increase.
    • Mudcrutch, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10Why does it seem everybody wants to blame EVERYONE BUT the students.

      Stop being lazy and do SOME work. A 65% (or whatever it is for schools nowadays) is SO EASY to obtain it takes effort to fail.
    • TheHolyLancer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2whaaa? You first speak as you were of a guy whom was in high school a long time ago, then changed perspective to sound like a 19 year old reflecting back on your classes, that is quite inconsistent
    • FearFactory, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Exactly, now can I get a Big Mac and some fries to go please? Oh and some extra sauces and napkins?
  • AndrewMB, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2I think this is total *****, in 1965 only 24% of students graduated from high school and now a days we are at over 95%. We are doing a hell of alot better than we were.
    • RedLevel, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1TheHolyLancer:

      What's wrong with reflecting on my classes? I haven't been out of high school for a very long period of time, but I can relate to what is happening. It also doesn't take a genius to know what high school was like years ago.

      Having good teachers only makes your high school memories better.

      Mudcrutch:

      You're right. Students have to take initiative to learn. It starts in the home, is transferred through the teacher, and ultimately comes down to the student.
  • arkmtech, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Let's see - Underpaid/unemployed, inexperienced, uninsured, uneducated people... Perfect candidates for expendable military front-line "resources"!

    Don't get me wrong - This isn't to imply any rash over-generalization about those in our military. I'm simply saying that I don't see our government doing much to prevent the aforementioned (And why would they? The U.S. military pays a minimum or no signing bonus to those with no diploma or G.E.D.) so that students can successfully graduate from a public high school and have a variety of education/career options available to them afterward, instead of just two or three... and we all know just how hard-sell (if not outright dishonest) military recruiters can be.

    I'm happy to don my tinfoil hat for the naysayers, but really, does anyone else see this?
    • Spacejack, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Hush, you. We're not supposed to admit the value of the kamikaze in this culture.
  • seaner, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11Where I live in Alberta, Canada you have three choices:

    1)Go to University, "waste" 4-6 years then get an average paying job
    2)Go to a trades school, "waste" 0.5-2 years and get an above average job
    3)Quit high school, work on the oil rigs and earn double the average.

    I'm taking #1 but I know a lot of people going for #3.
  • Altotus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I see. Now it's clear why illegal immigration is an issue. One used to be able to retort that the immigrants were taking jobs that no American would have, but now we're producing a bumper crop of Americans who are unqualified for anything but those jobs. I didn't realize that was all part of the master plan. It's all so clear now...
  • migbike, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1The only way to fix America’s education issues is to pay teachers more money. There are very few talented people in the teaching profession, at least at the High School level. A lot of the teachers at that level are people who managed to get a degree, but couldn’t succeed anywhere else in life. There are exceptions, people who have always wanted to teach, but a surprising majority of our teachers are people who simply couldn’t get a job anywhere else. I’m sure a lot of you on Digg remember having teachers that were complete morons, I sure do. These are the people that are supposed to be “educating” our children. A lot of these teachers are just as apathetic as the children who are dropping out.

    Unless someone was totally devoted to the idea of helping people, why would anyone who is reasonably intelligent take a job with such a ***** pay? Why would someone who is motivated, success driven, and intelligent, and holding a degree take a job that starts off at $30,000. I’m sure that there are plenty of talented people out there that would love to teach, if they could afford a decent lifestyle doing it. If we want a better quality of education, we need a better quality of teacher. “Teacher” needs to be a profession that little kids want to become.
    • doktorrocket, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1"Unless someone was totally devoted to the idea of helping people, why would anyone who is reasonably intelligent take a job with such a ***** pay?"

      Playing devil's advocate here....might this not be a good thing? I mean, if you keep salaries on the low side, you ensure that you only attract people who really have a desire to teach and help people. Raise salaries significantly, and you might start getting people who could care less but just want to punch the clock and get their check. Just a thought.
    • migbike, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"if you keep salaries on the low side, you ensure that you only attract people who really have a desire to teach and help people."

      That's like saying "sincle McDonalds pays employees so low, they only attract people who really LOVE to flip hamburgers and fry frenchfries."
  • ToadX, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Just wanted to bring up a point I once heard a philosophy professor bring up. In the United States, too many people are being over educated. You often see college graduates doing jobs that would not have required a college education. The government spends a lot of money on education (e.g. high schools, giving out financial aid to students), while a lot of people never need the stuff they learned. It's the thought of being 'worse' or 'less' than someone else because you have less education which is detrimental to society.

    One major reason criminals become criminals is because they think they have no other choice. It's from the ideas society has put into people's head that someone with less education will have no future.

    Being less educated does not mean you are worse than anyone else or that you make less of a contribution to society. e.g. We need farmers in society to survive. The only knowledge a farmer needs to know is how to be a farmer. A farmer does not need to know calculus to do their job. Why should someone waste their time (and money) learning something if they're not going to use it.
    • Buelldozer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Spot on!

      Fewer people should go to College and more people should go to a Trade School!

      The problem is that 'Trade School' has this stigma attached to it that it's somehow inferior to College.

      I think that quite a few people would be happier, more productive, and in less debt if they'd go to a trade school instead of a College.
    • migbike, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I agree. 50 years ago, a high school diploma was all that was needed to be pretty much equal with everyone else. If this trend continues, and people determine their self worth by their degree, we will have a ton of Doctors in the near future.

      It seems like this is just causing a huge rift. On one side, we have an entirely overeducated population, and on the other, we have 30% of American youth dropping out of high school. Where is the middle?
    • satanatnmtedu, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1You make sense to a certain extent. But, farmers that DO know calculus can become more efficient farmers. People who have more education than would be normally called for can be more efficient workers because their problem solving skills are well developed.

      I don't buy the argument that you can EVER be over educated. Even if I am working as a ditch digger (not much call for human labor there), I should be at least a better person because I have been educated.


      What I have seen as a substitute teacher of math and science is the lack of basic understanding from the top students let alone the children of lesser capabilities. If you put basic multiplication into a calculator instead of knowing it right away, then you are not as advanced as you might think. I fail to understand how children can understand basic algebra if they do not have multiplication tables memorized so that they are focused on the algebra concepts rather than the arithmetic. And, I saw much worse in my sampling of my old high school.

      Then, there is a perception in some micro-cultures that being smart is a bad thing. If you want to be accepted, then you go with the crowd. If the crowd thinks being a goof off is great,t hen you act like a goof off. I would rather see more examples given to children about how hard life is if you do not pursue as much education as possible. Life is still hard with multiple degrees, but it is easier than working at a fast food place.
    • Spacejack, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Good god, I've never seen quite such a distilled attack on education for its own sake.

      Is base utilitarianism actually a required feature of people now?
  • knivesdev, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3We don't need your educations and we don't need your thought control!
  • hellyes, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4The world needs ditch diggers.
    • DangerMouse9, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1you mean I can be a ditch digger?! OH CAPTAIN, MY CAPTAIN!
  • thearrow, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2You can't blame anyone for the dropout rate, but the kids themselves. They determine their own future, you can't blame things like this on education funding or whatnot.
    • emotive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1so the situation/ enviroment has nothing to do with it?
      Its overwhelming, most kids dont know how to react to anything anymore.
    • migbike, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2So how do we fix that? It's one thing to say "that kid is lazy", but 30% of the student population? Why are kids getting lazier and lazier? Is it something in the water? Is it just some trend that we have no control over? How to we reverse it so that the kids aren't lazy and can contribute to society?

      Saying "the kids are just lazy nowadays" with no suggestion of a reason as to why is pointless.
  • DaneArden, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Hey this is good news. Now we will have someone to do all the low wage jobs after we finish the border fence.
  • bvnay, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Solution: Bring in more Asian and Indian kids and the numbers should look better.
  • ogden, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3Nobody is going to say this, but I am. I'm sure I'll get moded to hell for it ... but whats new right? Since when have people wanted to hear the truth.

    High School dropout rates are so high because of illegal aliens from Mexico. Most view school as a babysitting service. Once the kids are old enough they are expected to work and help the family. This is exactly what you'd expect from the the agrarian society that we are importing,

    This was the norm in the US as well for hundreds of years. My grandmother bragged endlessly about finishing High School -- in the early 1900's when she grew up very few people finished High School, and almost no women did.

    I know this because there are 5 teachers in my family here at ground zero, Southern California. Kids come to school with nothing - when they come at all. Having not been fed, with no school supplies, having not been helped with their homework nor even told its important to do it. Most schools in California are feeding the kids *TWO* meals a day.

    My point is, trying to educate people who do not want to be educated is an exercise in futility. Its also judging them by standards that don't apply to them. Yes the DOE is hopeless but their hands are tied BY THE VERY PEOPLE THEY SERVE. The DOE cannot change or overcome societal issues -- and schools are ground zero for societal issues. At best they can offer those who wish to be educated, education.
    • jiggleflop, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1You are not being politically correct, but you are statistically correct.

      My trade is going Hispanic, many third and fourth generation Hispanic Americans are passionate about education, but many second generation Americans and virtually all of the first generation immigrants can't wait to pull their kids out of school and get them in the union.

    • migbike, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Couldn't the same be said for ANY cutural group that has ever immigrated to the United States? Irish, Italian, German, whoever.
    • ogden, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@migbike:

      Perhaps, but I'm trying to explain what's going on *right now*. :)
  • Gatesophile, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2I believe that this is happening because school is becoming unbearable. It's like a torture chamber. They just keep piling these kids on with more and more work and then they get stressed out, can't take having three projects due in the same day, and they they just give up and quit. I don't blame them at all. The school system is what's wrong.
    • martalli, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I doubt that is the main reason. Other systems (like India and Britain) put their students through a wringer of classwork, projects, routine testing, and few second chances (that's more India than Britain).

      I suspect that No Child Left Behind has encouraged dropping out, as long as the administration can somehow delete the dropouts out of their statistics. I believe there were some news stories about this going on in TX a year or two ago. The admins are faced with either 1) trying to get dropouts back in school, or 2) get hit with failing NCLB grades.
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