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Hezbollah's Deadly Arsenal
defensetech.org — Lebanese militants had the ability to sew terror only twelve miles into Israel. That changed on Thursday, when Hezbollah launched a new weapon, the Ra'ad rocket, which hit Tsfat and, for the first time, Haifa, 20 miles from the border. 220,000 Israelis stayed in bomb shelters last night to avoid the missiles, Ha'Aretz reports.
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- alder, on 10/12/2007, -23/+41Hezbollah is not so much of terror organization anymore. It's more of a terror empire. When you have ministers in the government and the ability to launch long ranged missiles into cities, you are no longer a mere "organization".
If Hezbollah isn't crashed now, the next time it tries to destabilize the Middle East would inevitably escalate into regional war. And that's assuming it won't succeed in obtaining strategic WMDs, in which case it could ignite a global war.- OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -16/+20[quote]Hezbollah is not so much of terror organization anymore. It's more of a terror empire.[/quote]
Has anyone ever considered that these various Islamic terror groups might actually be working TOGETHER? Not just together, but with support from numerous governments throughout the world?
Bush has done a great disservice by claiming that all the world's evil comes from the "Axis of Evil." It is much more complicated than that. If Bush were to tell you the truth, his daddy, Cheney and Rumsfeld, would be thrown in jail for the treasonous activities they have committed since Bush Sr first became CIA chief. - Stevethegreat, on 10/12/2007, -24/+8Hi alder, are you a nationalist? If so what makes you to do so? Have you ever wondered about it, or it was just violently inserted to you by your relatives? Do you seek liberation?
With as little as 60$ a day our company treats every patient who thing he/she is being loved by concepts, or anything that can't love him/her back. Our methods are scientifically accurate, it worked for people who were in love with coke cans, mugs, even couches. Our team is now working in a brand new program which has to do with excessive love for concepts, we already have impressive results. Mr Jones, for example is now a productive member of the society although before he came to us, he was a notorious lumberjack who sacrificed many trees to Flying Spaghetti monster who supposedly spoke to him in his sleep. We assure you after our treatment you won't feel down again and if you become a gold member by recommending some friends of yours to our institution, you will have a gold-burger (hence gold membership) in every of your visits. - phucku2, on 10/12/2007, -19/+25What qualifies them as a terrorist organisation, exactly? They kill inocent civiallians? They launch attacks into countries without legal authority? Do you mean like the US in Iraq? Until there's some balance in how these conflicts are viewed and understood by others, there's very little hope of them being resolved.
- OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -11/+13[quote][quote]Hezbollah is not so much of terror organization anymore. It's more of a terror empire.[/quote]
Has anyone ever considered that these various Islamic terror groups might actually be working TOGETHER? Not just together, but with support from numerous governments throughout the world?
Bush has done a great disservice by claiming that all the world's evil comes from the "Axis of Evil." It is much more complicated than that. If Bush were to tell you the truth, his daddy, Cheney and Rumsfeld, would be thrown in jail for the treasonous activities they have committed since Bush Sr first became CIA chief.[/quote]
Who modded this down? Explain yourself, coward! - CharlesDarwin, on 10/12/2007, -13/+3What the ***** is a hezbollah? What did it do to the lesbian millitants?
- TGMD, on 10/12/2007, -8/+9"Who modded this down? Explain yourself, coward!"
It doesn't ad to the conversation, it's trying to change the subject when it doesn't need to be changed. It makes accusations without any proof. And all it does is attack someone. That's why I modded it down. Now If you have the same post with PROOF and LOGIC I would mod you up even if I disagreed with you. - OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -7/+7How was I changing the subject if we were discussing terrorism? It is not a Israel vs. Hizb'Allah, HAMAS issue. It is a GLOBAL issue. What those of you modding me down would like to do is prevent that information from being more widely understood. Otherwise, it is done out of ignorance. Don't mod me down if you don't understand what is being discussed!
I have named Bush Sr-Cheney-Rumsfeld because of their past ties to Iran, to the Mujahedeen/Taliban/Al Qaeda, and to middle-eastern business in general--including the Bin Laden family itself. I think by now even schoolchildren know what the CIA, more precisely--HW Bush--have done during the USSR-Afghan war, during the Iran hostage Crisis, and the Iran-Iraq war.
This "War against Communism" has been a two-faced policy that has weakened legimate middle-eastern governments and put Islamic terrorists and tyrants in power. Not to mention make businesses aligned with Bush-Cheney extremely rich! Has it stopped Communism? Hardly. Communist China now owns America.
Terrorist groups came into being because of primarily the US, UK and France manipulating middle-eastern politics since the end of WW2. Do you deny this? Where did the state of Israel itself come from?
How is all this treasonous? I think that is obvious. Much of it has been done covertly, without Congressional approval, through backroom deals, and with anti-American, anti-Israeli terrorist groups such as what is now known as "Al Qaeda." These same terrorists eventually caused 9/11, and Saddam has dragged us into a trillion dollar quagmire in Iraq. The chickens have come home to roost, as the say.
Today, in that very quagmire we have billions unaccounted for, I wonder where that money has gone? To which terrorist group? To which corporation?
Israel, Lebanon and Palestine are all victims of this policy. And so are the American people.
If you want to discuss any one of these points, I'd be happy to do so, one at a time. If you want proof, go read it a book! There is always Google if you can't be bothered. - Justice101, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8Either way I admire Israel for their tenacity. For such a small state they can really dish out the hurt. Israel may be the only country in the world that will eventually control the Middle East. To be fare, they are located by the sea for resupply.
- OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -16/+20[quote]Hezbollah is not so much of terror organization anymore. It's more of a terror empire.[/quote]
- beejay, on 10/12/2007, -11/+46Obviously Israeli smart bombs and F-16's are no match for crude, medium range rockets.
- alder, on 10/12/2007, -34/+46Hezbollah doesn't concern itself with human rights and such (except when whining in the media). So they shoot rockets with 100-300kg of explosives into population centers. No matter how you look at it, it's pretty effective. There are already 5 casualties and dozens of wounded despite most of the target areas population living in shelters for the last few days.
Of course, Israel could completely destroy Lebanon with the type of weapons it has. But there's really no comparison here: Israel is doing her best not to hurt civilians with her weapons, only protect her own. Hezbollah is doing its worst to harm as many people as possible. They are firing everything they have at population centers. And they don't even care much for the Lebanese civilians: the majority of their arsenal is hidden in civil neighborhoods in Beirut, frequently at homes where (collaborating) civilians are living. - beejay, on 10/12/2007, -36/+55Recent examples of Israel killing civilians:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/06/09/mideast/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5103464.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5074798.stm
Sure, they denied the first one, but they offered no explanation besides a palestinian landmine. So a friendly landmine on the upper portion of a crowded beach went off, even though people had been there all day, and witnesses on the beach saw a shell. Israel broke the most recent cease-fire, not Hamas or Hezbollah.
Even smart bombs aren't smart enough to discern a 2-year-old girl from a Hamas supporter. But it's ok because we have the doctrine of double effect to provide moral immunity for any act that "fights terrorism," right? - stickyboot, on 10/12/2007, -23/+17Wow a Hezbollah has a military. And alder, quite a few countries I know don't concern themselves with Human rights very often (Israel for a start). Don't present them as some innocent little country.
- alder, on 10/12/2007, -33/+70@beejay:
The fact is that Israel never attempts to kill civilians. Sometimes it has no choice, sometimes they are collateral damage. They are never a direct target.
Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran and Syria target civilans, and freely admit they do so.
When such scum are compared to Israel, I understand there are no morals anymore, only politics. And I know I will be dugg down for this, since there are more arabs here than Jews. But this is still the truth. - beejay, on 10/12/2007, -10/+45"since there are more arabs here than Jews"
I'm neither. But really, it shouldn't be "us vs. them." I think that is a huge part of the problem. Being Jewish or Muslim shouldn't determine your opinion in this debate (I know you said Arab and not Muslim, but you also said Jew rather than Israeli). - szelij, on 10/12/2007, -16/+7Yep. Hezbollah is pretty powerful, stronger than Hamas for sure. The main aim for Hezbollah right now is to lift pressure off Hamas. Hamas had agreed earlier to release the israeli captured but were prevented after pressure from its links outside of Gaza.
So now Hezbollah attacks to relief them. About Hezbollah's weapons, it's pretty accurate-Israeli intelligence is one that you can trust most of the time when they've not been altered by politicians.
But most worryingly is the Iraqi weapons in the hands of Syria right now. Syria could simply hand over a few of these warheads and the effect would be devastating on Israel.
I fear that once Hezbollah or anyone fires one of these "WMD's", the retaliation will be hard-hitting. It'd be most likely a nuclear strike and you know that will most likely destroy the world's economy and plunge the middle east into a war spanning a dozen countries. - Quactaur, on 10/12/2007, -22/+32"The fact is that Israel never attempts to kill civilians"
Do you really think any nation proclaiming justice and peace will admit to attacking civilians?
Call it "collateral" damage or necessary losses or what you like; when beaches of civilians are killed by shells, behind the spin the clear fact is, Israel is giving them a show of power.
I personally think that both Israel and the terror cells (clearly) are in the wrong. Those who were displaced did not deserve it, the fact that the Jews who helped found Israel were displaced does not let them do it to others, and it could be argued Israel's founding principle was wrong. But how many nations can you name who were founded without blood baths and loss of life? Just because the event happened in a modern, more criticizing time doesn't mean Israel's birth was any different (while still being wrong in a way). Regardless, Israel is the power in the ME, and nations should accept that it is there, has enormous potential to help neighbouring states with it's considerable economy, and work towards peace.
Where Israel was at fault was it's vigilante attitude. With a lot of people holding the stereotyped image mentally of Arab states being warlike and barbaric, Israel should not only be offering the olive branch, but also being more reserved.
After it's soldiers were kidnapped (not captured they insist, kidnapped), Israel did not ask the government of Lebannon to help (which, even if it refused, would have at least shown that Israel gave a real effort). By simply charging into another country's land, Israel immiediatly lowered its image in comparison to Hezbollah and threatened stability.
If this isn't resolved peacefully within the next few months, a real war is going to start, soon. - OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -8/+13[quote]And I know I will be dugg down for this, since there are more arabs here than Jews.[/quote]
What gave you that idea!? That's a very strange, paranoid thing to say.
(Not sarcasm) - Quactaur, on 10/12/2007, -6/+12There are also a lot more european, asian and american users than either "Jews" or "Arabs". Israel and Palestine discussions are suprisingly well balanced on digg in the main; most people seem to recognize that both groups have differing responsibilties and both are guilty of crimes too.
- stevenley, on 10/12/2007, -6/+11So lets say there was really a shell on the beach. Besides for collateral damage, when was the last time Israel attacked civialians intentionally? Never.
Israelies care for human rights. At Haddasah Ein Kerem Medical Center in Jerusalem, after the scenes of a terror attack you WILL find terrorists being treated with innocent injured civilians.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/10/31/60minutes/main581163.shtml
"One morning, a young Jewish woman was brought in to Hadassah - a settler who'd been shot in her car by a terrorist. She was seven months pregnant, and the doctors saved her and her baby.
Minutes later, doctors were called to the intensive care unit to treat - not an Israeli - but an alleged Palestinian arms dealer who'd been shot by Israeli soldiers."
Israel isnt some big bad evil country seeking middle east domination. They are good everyday people like you and me. They have been through more ***** then you can imagine. More then the palestians ever went through.
Let them have there country and live there lives.
Umm the person above me was just voicing that there is always some sort of Anti-semetic view that gets digged up.
So calm down. - wuxia, on 10/12/2007, -7/+1"Now in the middle of the sea, facing Beirut, the Israeli warship that has attacked the infrastructure, people's homes and civilians - look at it burning," Hezbollah's leader Sheik Hassan Nasrallah said.
YOOHOO!
Sweets for everyone!
- alder, on 10/12/2007, -34/+46Hezbollah doesn't concern itself with human rights and such (except when whining in the media). So they shoot rockets with 100-300kg of explosives into population centers. No matter how you look at it, it's pretty effective. There are already 5 casualties and dozens of wounded despite most of the target areas population living in shelters for the last few days.
- echoparkdirt, on 10/12/2007, -24/+42It's remarkable to me that people can compare a terrorist, Jihadist organization which murders civilians and vows to destroy its neighbor Israel with a country that is merely trying to survive. It is the worst kind of moral cowardice to equate those who wish only to destroy with those who wish only to survive.
- ransom, on 10/12/2007, -22/+25Well said. In this situation, the only successful outcome is the destruction of Hezbollah. A cease fire will solve nothing.
- ismoke, on 10/12/2007, -26/+18Or the destruction of Israel, either way, it'll be fixed. But wait... Isreal hasn't even been there for 60 years and openly "colonizes" the region. It's true a cease-fire solves nothing, because Israel breaks it every single time.
- makhtari, on 10/12/2007, -26/+38Are you guys freaking kidding me? Israel is the one who has an undocumented Nuclear and Chemical arsenal while the most Hezbollah can do is launch third hand rockets that it gets from Iran. Israel can destroy the whole middle east in the blink of an eye and I wouldn't be surprised if they did considering that they have a total disregard for everybody else (they have never respected a single United Nations resolution, most of which get vetoed by US anyways).
- drizek, on 10/12/2007, -20/+30I think you are forgetting that israel has killed 75 civilians so far and accomplished nothing.
- lateralus, on 10/12/2007, -16/+21They have a total disregard for any non israeli jew entity, that includes americans, the un, eu. How can you tell me they are fighting for survival? They are figuratively the biggest bully on the block. They are a billion times more powerful militarily than any neighbor. They don't launch molotov cocktails like their counterpart rogue groups, they send cruise missiles and attack helicopters. They took out Lebanon in 24 hrs.
- deadbaby, on 10/12/2007, -15/+16Hezbollah & Hamas would tell you they are "just trying to survive" too. The truth is, both sides have done horrible things and the spiral of revenge is finally out of control. There's never been a time in all of history where two groups of religions fanatics could co-exist peacefully in such a small region. There are no easy answers. I personally blame & sympathize with both sides equally. A lot of innocent people are dying because they're pawns of powerful religious leaders playing a game of chess.
- Quactaur, on 10/12/2007, -10/+18Israel is far more complex than that.
While the people of Israel are a large mix that includes Arabs and Muslims, who want to see an end to war, and aplace to live, the army and government are different. They still represent the people, but their view of survival is far more projected and aggressive; they would rather survive by knocking out anything that could threaten them, and are willing to accept some innocent casualties in the process (isn't it war afterall, they say).
That's not to say what these terrorists do is anything close to justifiable, but you should be careful when you paint Israel as a shining nation of goodness. Perhaps in constrast to the groups in the middle east, but it's no angel itself. A survey, a year old now, showed that over 50% of Americans surveyed, that is American citizens, not Fox and the government (couldn't resist that poke, sorry) viewed Israel (to be more presice, Israel's "foreign policy") as the greatest threat to stability in the middle east. - ciphex, on 10/12/2007, -12/+14@ echoparkdirt: very well said indeed.
people moan everytime someone dies in a military conflict as if it is some unprecedented haenousness.
every death is a loss to the world and a tragedy of human nature but since when should this surprise us? and since when should countries who are engaged in the task of defending their nation (Their families and friends - mothers, wives and children) be chastised when the opposing side loses a civilian who may or may not have supported the military efforts of the dissenting terrorism regime being targeted? The Israeli people do not have a culture of violence or oppression. They want merely to defend their land and their lives in one of the toughest spots in the world. I for one am glad that at least one nation still seems to have the balls to do what it must to survive. It's easy for other larger nations like France and Russia (who are disconnected from the fight) to point fingers and slap wrists saying "bad bad boys you hurt someone. when they threw that rock at your head you shouldn't have picked it up and thrown it back... you should have bent over for a minute and gone to find a smaller more reasonable rock to toss back at them... and just hope they hadn't killed your friend by the time you returned."
Get real people. Life is out there and it really happens. When are we going to start admitting it? - OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -15/+9The villians:
UK, US, France, Turkey, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, Pakistan.
The victims:
Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, Israel, Iraq, India, Afghanistan. - BrOuZeR, on 10/12/2007, -10/+5Israel is tiny, and they're doing most damage, Ironic.
- OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -13/+6[quote]The villians:
UK, US, France, Turkey, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, Pakistan.
The victims:
Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, Israel, Iraq, India, Afghanistan.[/quote]
Why did you mod this down? Explain yourself, coward! - otherland, on 10/12/2007, -12/+8Hezbollah is a resistance group that fights to free Lebanon from zionist occupation. "Israel" needs to leave all of Lebanon, including Shaaba Farms, and free all Lebanese prisoners that have been tortured in Israeli jails for up to 3 decades.
- rogueman, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8@makhtari
I always inteded to study the most used logical fallacies but never got round to it. Your post made me wanna take a couple of ours and hit wikipedia. Which I probably will later.
"Are you guys freaking kidding me? Israel is the one who has an undocumented Nuclear and Chemical arsenal while the most Hezbollah can do is launch third hand rockets that it gets from Iran."
True. So what? It doesn't really reply to anything people said before. How well armed each side is doesn't really influences the problem. Starting with the invention of tha Gatling gun, the determination to use weapons matters more then the power of the weapons. And from all the news i read, Hezbollah is the one with the determination to fire rockets at populated areas without having strategic or military targets.
" Israel can destroy the whole middle east in the blink of an eye"...
Very scary. So ca most countries in europe. So can 4-5 countries in Asia. So? Other then make people frightened this doesn't say anything.
" and I wouldn't be surprised if they did considering that they have a total disregard for everybody else (they have never respected a single United Nations resolution, most of which get vetoed by US anyways)."
The fact that they disregarded all United States Resolutions (don't know if they did, shoud check but i'm lasy) doesn't automaticaly mean they "have a total disregard for everybody else". Just for the United Nations. And, on a personal note, in their shoes i would have done the same. - stevenley, on 10/12/2007, -6/+5What do you mean they have disregarded UN resolutions? Which ones?
How many UN resolutions toward peace have the Palestinians rejected? All.
The former Israeli UN Ambassador, Abba Eban said "The Palestinians never missed a opportunity to miss a Opportunity". - ghrui, on 10/12/2007, -6/+3 makhtari
why do you think most UN resolutions are against israel?
because all the arab countries vote against israel no matter what
and there are like 100 of them - star, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3"stevenley" asks; "What do you mean they have disregarded UN resolutions? Which ones?"
Time to brush up on what is going on in the place called reality?
Double standards
"Israel ignores the United Nations and has weapons of mass destruction. So why all the fuss about Iraq?"
http://www.economist.com/world/na/displayStory.cfm?story_id=1378577
Lessons to be Learned From 66 U.N. Resolutions Israel Ignores
http://www.wrmea.com/backissues/0393/9303040.htm
A list of UN Resolutions against "Israel"
http://www.action-for-un-renewal.org.uk/pages/isreal_un_resolutions.htm
UN resolutions relating to Israel vetoed by the US
http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1172768
Use of the Veto on United Nations Resolutions by the USA
http://www.krysstal.com/democracy_whyusa03.html
UN Resolutions
http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/0189/8901009.htm
- Mrkamikaze, on 10/12/2007, -9/+5To me it looks like is was designed to better deliver chemical weapons rather then conventional explosives.
- drizek, on 10/12/2007, -7/+6I doubt that, but i hope we never have to find out.
- star, on 10/12/2007, -9/+10"Mrkamikaze" claims; "To me it looks like is was designed to better deliver chemical weapons rather then conventional explosives."
Fascinating! It seems we have a rocket expert here.
And exactly what in the design make you say that? The blue paint?? - Mrkamikaze, on 10/12/2007, -9/+5@star
Ever see systems designed to deliver chemical/Biologial weapons? Obviously Not. - star, on 10/12/2007, -5/+5Why don't you answer the question?
- ransom, on 10/12/2007, -24/+23Israel just wants to exist. The problem is, the rest of the middle east just can't deal with the fact that they do.
- ismoke, on 10/12/2007, -15/+22What if after the destruction of Palestine the US would allow Palestinians to come to America and form their own country. Let's say it would be between Washington D.C. and New York City. What would you think of that? I perfectly understand why the Middle East doesn't want to see Israel there: because they don't belong there, whatever the hell the Old Testament says (it says a lot of things you would think are barbaric anyway).
- Aelbric, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6New Jersey? Let 'em have it. Not only would no one complain, but I'm pretty sure they would have no interest in staying.
/sarcasm - OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -5/+11[quote]Let's say it would be between Washington D.C. and New York City[/quote]
I believe Palestine, Texas would be a more fitting place?
http://www.city-data.com/city/Palestine-Texas.html
Coincidentally, the space shuttle carrying the Israeli colonel/astronaut exploded over that city. Spooky, isn't it? - OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -11/+6[quote][quote]Let's say it would be between Washington D.C. and New York City[/quote]
I believe Palestine, Texas would be a more fitting place?
http://www.city-data.com/city/Palestine-Texas.html
Coincidentally, the space shuttle carrying the Israeli colonel/astronaut exploded over that city. Spooky, isn't it?[/quote]
Why did you mod that down? Explain yourself. - stevenley, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8"What if after the destruction of Palestine the US would allow Palestinians to come to America and form their own country."
There is no real nation of Palestine.
"the Roman emperor Hadrian expelled most Jews from Judea, leaving large Jewish populations in Samaria and the Galilee. He also changed the name of the Roman province of Judea (Israel) to Syria Palaestina named after the Philistines as an insult to the now conquered Jews."
Then "From the 1960s onward, the term "Palestine" was regularly used in political contexts. Various declarations, such as the 1988 proclamation of a State of Palestine by the PLO referred to a country called Palestine."
The "Palestinians" are a bunch squaters from neighboring arab countries.
"Crusaders, and other people have all settled in the region and intermarried [16][17]. Many of their descendants converted to Christianity and later to Islam, and spoke different languages depending on the lingua franca of the time. For the most part, the Arabization of Palestine began in Umayyad times. Increasing conversions to Islam among the local population, together with the immigration of Arabs from Arabia and inland Syria, led to the replacement of Aramaic by Arabic as the area's dominant language."
- raisputin, on 10/12/2007, -24/+18Israel is the real terrorist organization in the Middle East
- connellb, on 10/12/2007, -17/+8Get Real, Isreal probably wouldn't even have a military if they weren't being attacked all the time.
- BrOuZeR, on 10/12/2007, -18/+5Wow, thats really dumb..So do you ever see Israelis blowing themselves up? Thought not...I think its kinda retarded how people kil themselves like that, its so sad. Yes, Israel they have a heck of a lot of prisonors in their prisons and people are upset bout that but they were all trying to kill them, and whenever an Israeli soldier is captured, the terrorists demand that this one person to be traded for 300 other militants who will be back on the streets with bombs strapped to themselves or armed with Ak's going all out on them.
It is SO annoying hearing on the news that another suicide bomber blew themselves up. You hear it like everyday. Its just soo bloody dumb.
- bardamu, on 10/12/2007, -20/+24As far as I'm both concerned they are both terrorist organizations. Ones just got a little better uniforms and shinier (American) equipment. Both bring death and terror to the region.
- mjohn, on 10/12/2007, -14/+16Terrorist organizations are those in which innocent people are intentionally targeted. It is not terrorism to defend one's country (and sometimes the best defense is a good offense).
- stevenley, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4Who is digging down the logical comments?
- sanman, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3bardamu, so where were the expressions of outrage when recently-departed Syria was occupying the whole of Lebanon (not just the South) while also bombing and assassinating its political leaders. Any of our ankle-biting Diggers remember who Rafiq Hariri was, and what happened to him? Or did his news coverage lose out to watching re-runs of Dawson's Creek?
- tmahmood, on 10/12/2007, -2/+275 people are dead in Lebanon. Do you think they were terrorists?
- ransom, on 10/12/2007, -17/+14raisputin, that's just pathetic of you to say. like the morons that say that Bush is the real terrorist. what does israel ever do to anyone else, unless they are provoked (read: bombarded by missiles)? how many countries would let Ahminedajad flout his desire to wipe them off the map like Israel does? Israel's tact and diplomacy in the face of ridiculous persecution from its neighbors is remarkable
- drizek, on 10/12/2007, -13/+12tact and diplomacy? what diplomacy? Bombing another country isnt diplomacy! Not taking part in any talks of negotiation or cease fires isnt diplomacy.
What dream world do you live in? - geekee, on 10/12/2007, -9/+11"tact and diplomacy? what diplomacy? Bombing another country isnt diplomacy! Not taking part in any talks of negotiation or cease fires isnt diplomacy.
What dream world do you live in?"
It was Arafat, not Israel that refused to sign on to a peaceful settlement in the 90's. Clinton said it was the biggest waste of his time dealing with Arafat. The truth is Hezbollah and Hamas and Fatah do not want peace because their organizations gain support and money because of hatred towards Israel. If there were peace, Hezbollah and Hamas' power would diminish, and they do not want that to happen. - drizek, on 10/12/2007, -9/+7What does arafat have to do with it. Hes dead you know...
The lebanese government and hte lebanese people are trying to get israel to stop attacking but israel wont deal with them. Thats not what diplomacy is. Diplomacy is negotiation and compromise, not bombing. - rogueman, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4Very very good point, geekee. Who stands to win and who stands to lose from peace in the region? Israel doesn't lose anything, just gets rid of a lot of expenses and can make money from tourism. Which btw also aplies to Lebanon. Hezbollah? Hamas? They don't win anyting with peace.. just get demilitarised, lose sponsors and have to transform to political parties or something. With elections. Military people (notice how I didn't say terrorists) don't like elections.
- weeFred, on 10/12/2007, -5/+6@drizek, it was the labanese that attacked through the Israeli border, kidnapped 2 Israeli soldiers and took them back to lebanon, Israel is currently putting military pressure on lebanon til it gets it's soldiers back and Hezbollah has been dismantled or destroyed. If you'd bother to read the news then you'd realise this was the case
- raisputin, on 10/12/2007, -9/+5Israel has been terrorizing the hell out of the Palestinians for damn near 40 years. It's time they are wiped off the map and let the land return to those to whom it rightfully belongs. Death to Israel!!!
- ghrui, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5drizek
the hezbolla is a lebanese organization that is a member of the lebanese parliament with representation in the lebanese government , hezbolla members are lebanese citizens! who use their weapons to shot into israel from a lebanese territory.
israel warned the lebanese gov for 6 years!!! to stop hezbolla from getting missiles and standing them on the border against israel
the gov did nothing
but now that they get hurt they want to talk
- drizek, on 10/12/2007, -13/+12tact and diplomacy? what diplomacy? Bombing another country isnt diplomacy! Not taking part in any talks of negotiation or cease fires isnt diplomacy.
- Briandt75, on 10/12/2007, -4/+15This comments list is basically mirroring the sentiments going on in the real world. It's just like a model UN!!
God save the Queen and Freddy Mercury..!- drizek, on 10/12/2007, -12/+12And apparantly John Bolton is trolling digg and burying all the comment that dont support israel.
- Quactaur, on 10/12/2007, -7/+11I've noticed that too. Even the most neutral comments, criticising both nations, and those who question Israel, get digged to 0 almost immiediatly. Digg also seems to suffer from an avalanche effect of sorts, people tend to digg down negative comments quickly.
- pabloab, on 10/12/2007, -12/+16I am guessing that most of you are from America debating this let me chip in a UK point of view.
We learned in the last world war the only way to stop killing each other is to work together. A lot of people criticize the European union but it has made an unbreakable peace in Europe for 60 years. this is how we know think the rest of the world should think and it sometimes beggars belief that the whole rest of the world cannot see that it does work. The idea of kidnapping people for hostage exchange is a medieval idea that we gave up on hundreds of years ago. depressingly I think that is where the middle east is today the war zone that was Europe in the 1500's only another 450 years to go before the light dawns.
The big worry is that the weapons exist to make the middle east a wasteland that could be uninhabitable for a thousand years long before the peace breaks out- drizek, on 10/12/2007, -4/+16There was an equally long lasting peace in Europe following the napoleonic wars. Then came WW1, one of the bloodiest wars in human history.
- echoparkdirt, on 10/12/2007, -10/+26You know Pabloab, I'm sick of sophisticated Euros pretending that they learned from WWII that war sucks and we must work together. The lesson from WWII is when fascist, Jew-hating organizations take control of states, the solution is to wage war upon them and kill them. If you forget your history, your PM Neville Chamberlain tried to "work together" his way out of WWII. He appeased the Germans and only made things worse. Sheesh. Why don't you get the League of Nations to send a strongly-worded letter to Hamas, see how that works. Gosh, your attitude really gets my goat....
- Quactaur, on 10/12/2007, -2/+17I'm all for a European Union, but the reason there's been no war in Europe the last 60 years is because for the first part we couldn't afford to, for the second part, we had started to become a service based group of nations (contrasted to the ME, where they extract one of the base industrial resources, oil - A ME country can survive on its own competently for a while, in Europe we'd starve without inter-european trade). Thirdly, the entire Israel/Palestine issue was in a great way due to Britain running away from Palestine and not disengaging in a controlled manner. Besides which, the second world war saw atrocities far, far worse than medieval kidnappings, or indeed anything that has or is happening in the ME so far. Not just the nazis, both sides were guilty of causing much more destruction than people on whom the "light hasn't dawned".
I completely agree with the EU helping to supress war, but it was not the dominant factor, and we in Europe are not by any small means free of sin in the last 100 years.
Echo: Isolationism from the USA wasn't startlingly good either. - drizek, on 10/12/2007, -3/+19But before that, the europeans were opressing the germans and forcing them to pay war reparations. The entire german economy collapsed as a result of the inflation and they wanted revenge.
Had Wilsons 14 points been followed WW2 and the entire nazi regime could have been avoided. - Mrkamikaze, on 10/12/2007, -9/+10I would have hoped you would have learned that evil understands force and nothing else. Or at least I would have hoped that you father or grandfather would have taught you that. This “Why can’t we get along” crap is typical naïve European behavior. The EU would attempt to appease Satan all the while he raped and pillaged Europe. Try reading some history.
- Quactaur, on 10/12/2007, -5/+6The EU wouldn't. Read your history, NATO was a joint effort, as much European effort as American. At the end of the day, the USA did have the major role in curbing communism (at the cost of freedom of speech in America and an accelerated arms race... anyway) but that's only because of economics. The USA wasn't bombarded by Hitler's blitz, it wasn't invaded, twice in 2 decades and it had had almost a hundred years of "splendid isolation" to become a superpower, on a land rich in resources and space. The USA was paramount in assembling NATO, but only because it had escaped WW2 less damaged than the rest of the allies; any other nation from Europe would have stood to take its place if it could have.
Besides which, the rampaging across Europe argument holds no weight. The USA had a moderate communist sentiment untill the government began to squash down on it, and it was seperated from the USSR by an ocean and thousands of miles of land. Had it shared a land border, it would have struggled with communism just as much as Europe. - Mrkamikaze, on 10/12/2007, -8/+9“The USA was paramount in assembling NATO, but only because it had escaped WW2 less damaged than the rest of the allies; any other nation from Europe would have stood to take its place if it could have.”
Huh! what? That’s weird I distinctly remember America spending billions of dollars rebuilding Europe in is entirety and offering low interest loans to countries in order for everyone to get back on their feat at the same time rebuilding Japan. Then jointly creating NATO in 1949 to further provide security of Europe. I am not suggesting we deserve any thanks but you could at least get some basic facts straight. I am wondering what they teach in the schools in Europe history according to the Teletubbies? - Quactaur, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8Where have i disputed any of that? I clearly stated twice that the USA was the dominant force in rebuilding and founding NATO, but that was only because of its virtue and fortune of being so far isolated from Europe as to be spared a great deal of the destruction; and to have a stockpile of wealth from its days of isolation.
"If it *could* have"
I argued that yes, the USA did do the most to hold back communism, but had any other European nation been able to, it would have done the same, and the only thing preventing France, Britain, the Benelux states and the rest of Europe from contributing was the minor financial burden of having over a million soldiers rampaging across your landscape for almost a decade.
Please read my comments before you question them; especially when you express disbelief at my facts, then reiterate them. - GlenL22, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11Maybe pabloab doesn't remember a region named Bosnia? Maybe he thinks that it was never part of Europe and was ruled by a person who was being tried for genocide?
- AtomicAmish, on 10/12/2007, -6/+6"A lot of people criticize the European union but it has made an unbreakable peace in Europe for 60 years."
This is largely because European countries were protected by the US military (in western Europe) and the USSR (in eastern Europe) for fifty years. - DanaG, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6OT, but what the hell, it's related to this thread.
Don't think it can happen in Europe or England? Islam is coming to Europe and there's nothing you can do about it.
"Beheading Nations: The Islamization of Europe’s Cities" ( http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/1183 ) - OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5The only solution is to stop appeasing religious fundamentalists of all kinds. Jews, Muslims, Christians; if they use war, terror and religious oppression to further their interests, they are all enemies of human civilization.
How is an Israeli or Christian Republican that claims Israel is the "Holy Land" going to help the situation any more than a Muslim who claims it is their holy land? It's no one's holy land! It's just another country. One that thinks too highly of itself.
God's chosen people? Does anyone want to explain what that means? - ghrui, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3so Yugoslavia , and Serbia are not in europe anymore?
they had war during the 90's and again america had to come and stop it while the rest of the european countries stood on the side and let the war go.
- jboi, on 10/12/2007, -7/+10700 Katyusha rockets and mortar shells have been fired on northern Israel.
49 people were wounded few people killed.
Stunning- d00ley, on 10/12/2007, -6/+4If we apply the same standards of criticism to Israel when Israeli settlers attack and kill Palestinians, we would unfairly generalize and hold the entire Israeli population accountable for the actions of a few. Seriously, Israeli settlers and undisciplined soldiers attack, harass, and kill Palestinians on a regular basis. Would it be right to constantly hate, oppress and kill the Israeli population for the acts of these rogue Israeli terrorists? No. Of course not. So why do we constantly hold the entire Palestinian... no, the entire Arab population accountable for the actions of shady Arab terrorist organizations that literally make up a fraction of a percent of the Arab population. I'm asking a serious and legitimate questions here :-)
Random Examples:
http://english.people.com.cn/200506/29/eng20050629_193099.html
http://www.imemc.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=19419&Itemid=147
http://www.aljazeerah.info/News%20archives/2006%20News%20Archives/June/20%20n/Illegal%20Israeli%20settlers%20stone%20a%20Palestinian%20to%20death%20in%20Hebron's%20Old%20City,%20while%20Israeli%20occupation%20soldiers%20beat%20a%20Palestinian%20child.htm
http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/060601/2006060108.html
- d00ley, on 10/12/2007, -6/+4If we apply the same standards of criticism to Israel when Israeli settlers attack and kill Palestinians, we would unfairly generalize and hold the entire Israeli population accountable for the actions of a few. Seriously, Israeli settlers and undisciplined soldiers attack, harass, and kill Palestinians on a regular basis. Would it be right to constantly hate, oppress and kill the Israeli population for the acts of these rogue Israeli terrorists? No. Of course not. So why do we constantly hold the entire Palestinian... no, the entire Arab population accountable for the actions of shady Arab terrorist organizations that literally make up a fraction of a percent of the Arab population. I'm asking a serious and legitimate questions here :-)
- LubbertDas, on 10/12/2007, -19/+23For 10 years Israel has agreed to what the rest of the world has suggested and on virtually every point they've conceded to the Palestinians. They've given them land, their own country, everything they've asked for that the Israeli's could reasonably provide.
In exchange, the Palestinian people elected a government that doesn't recognize Israel's right to exist.
Please remember that the ultimate goal of Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, and every other Muslim extremist group in the middle east is to "push every jew into the ocean".
The Islamofacists don't want to negotiate with the Israeli's for peace, land or anything else, they want them DEAD!
If Iran had nuclear weapons, and if they could get them to Hezbollah, do any of you think that these extremist groups would hesitate to use them? If you remember, this is the reason for invading Iraq, to keep WMD's out of the hands of extremist groups.
Iran is supplying Syria and Hezbollah with weapons. Syria controls much of Lebanon, and actively supports Hezbollah as well. Hezbollah, as a terrorist organization, stores their weapons in apartment blocks, and other high population areas for the express purpose of producing large numbers of civilian casualties should the Israeli's attempt to destroy them. They don't play by the same rules as Israel, who stores their weapons on military bases.
Iran has stated that any attack on an Islamic state is an attack on all Islamic states. Israel HAS the right to defend itself, its borders, and it's people.
Whether you realize it or not, we may be on the brink of World War 4. If the Israeli's invade Lebanon or Syria, as all indications point out that they might, Iran might launch an attack on Israel. This could quickly escalate into a world-wide conflict.
I will leave you with one question to consider: When Hezbollah launches rockets into Israel and kills innocent people, why don't we hear any complaints from the United Nations? This always strikes me as curious because the minute that Israel, using legitimate military forces to stop the rocket attacks, causes collateral damage, the U.N. instantly condemns the actions of Israel. Do you find this to be just a bit of a double-standard?- Quactaur, on 10/12/2007, -7/+11The reason is that as Israel is a democracy and its army a representative (they have conscription, for goodness sake) of the people, it should not wildly differ in its policies than from public sentiment. If an Israeli terror cell went and blew up a portion of Palestine, the UN wouldn't condemn it either; they've already noted (not that it's needed) that terrorists are bad, but Israel's army isn't a terror cell, it should justify its reasons (and don't just shout self defence; bulldozing Palestinians isn't self defence) properly, and at least attempt to cooperate with neighbouring governments, as however unwilling they are to cooperate, the fact that they at least try would be enough to raise their status in the world's eyes.
- star, on 10/12/2007, -10/+9"Israel has agreed to what the rest of the world has suggested and on virtually every point they've conceded to the Palestinians."
False.
Let's see what the reality looks like...
Double standards
"Israel ignores the United Nations and has weapons of mass destruction. So why all the fuss about Iraq?"
http://www.economist.com/world/na/displayStory.cfm?story_id=1378577
Lessons to be Learned From 66 U.N. Resolutions Israel Ignores
http://www.wrmea.com/backissues/0393/9303040.htm
A list of UN Resolutions against "Israel"
http://www.action-for-un-renewal.org.uk/pages/isreal_un_resolutions.htm
UN resolutions relating to Israel vetoed by the US
http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1172768
Use of the Veto on United Nations Resolutions by the USA
http://www.krysstal.com/democracy_whyusa03.html
UN Resolutions
http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/0189/8901009.htm - behemothaur, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6A global conflict?
Only if the US drops the ball - our inherent bias has assisted this serious destabilisation of the region. But problems in the Middle East are only "global" for the countries who have so much at stake that they have already calculated the risk, like us.
Let's see how the emerging markets feel. - geekee, on 10/12/2007, -8/+2"and at least attempt to cooperate with neighbouring governments, as however unwilling they are to cooperate, the fact that they at least try would be enough to raise their status in the world's eyes."
I love how excuse racist Muslim govt. that refuse to recognizes Israel and blame Israel for not trying harder to work with govts that refuse to accept their right ot exist. Talk about a double standard. - geekee, on 10/12/2007, -9/+9@star
The UN is a jioke. They do nothing about Muslim terrorists and criticize any attempt by Israel at self defense.
Here's the real story:
http://www.likud.nl/press51.html
http://www.likud.nl/press51.html - stevenley, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4So your gonna quote a bunch of Anti Israel sites? Good job showing your biased and uninformed.
- stevenley, on 10/12/2007, -6/+1Quoting Anti-Israel websites really brings out your ability to decern truth.
- star, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2"So your gonna quote a bunch of Anti Israel sites? Good job showing your biased and uninformed."
That's an interesting claim.
If they are just "a bunch of Anti Israel sites" it shouldn't be too hard for you to refute the "inconvenient" information they present, right? - combatpilotx, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2world war 4? when was world war 3?
- hockeysk8, on 10/12/2007, -13/+21No digg from me. I don't condone what either Hezbollah or Israel is doing, but I object to the use of the, oh so fashionable Bush word, "terror" when it does not apply to both sides. At the very least this is a war between two intolerant nations. And if one were to analyze it, both sides are "terrorizing" innocent civilians.
I should mention that the lack of constraint and defacto use of the word "terrorist" to justify attacking sovereign nations by governments around the world has become far too commonplace since the ill fated speech, "You are either with us or against us."- Mrkamikaze, on 10/12/2007, -9/+10Great another moral relativist, terrorist apologist your type is becoming more and more common.
- weeFred, on 10/12/2007, -7/+5Israel is not terrorising civilians, it trys it's hardest to avoid civilian casualties, while the whole point of hezbollah, hamas, al aqsa, PLO, ANO, PIJ and all the other islamic psycho groups trying to start wars around the world, is to kill as much civilians as possible.
- gruvsf, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5After following the news about this conflict in the past few days, I notice one glaring issue with Hezbollah-they claim that they are a major political faction in Lebannon, yet they still have a major military wing. I know that taking a more Western view to politics, political parties usually do not have a political wing-most that do are evenutally forced to disarm if they really want to participate in the political process (like Sinn Fien). The fact that they are allowed to do both in Lebannon is a major issue, especially sincd Hezbollah is funded by Syria and Iran. Imagine if the Republican or Democratic parties had their own military wing....
- pabloab, on 10/12/2007, -6/+5You know echoparkdirt maybe your right it is a solution to use superior might and utterly destroy Palestine and Lebanon and Syria too for that matter (what about Iran?). Then impose a Jewish state and secure peace forcibly. I will admit that ultimately is what we did to Germany. How many Jews have the balls to kill 20 to 30 million to get it done plus a 100 years of civil unrest to quell the uprisings.
I am all for a solution to the mess that is there now is this the way to do it it did work for the Romans for a while?- echoparkdirt, on 10/12/2007, -7/+4I fear that if we can't convince Islam to come to its senses thru a process of deterrence or democracy, the West will not have many options left.
- OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3[quote]I fear that if we can't convince Islam to come to its senses thru a process of deterrence or democracy, the West will not have many options left.[/quote]
That's how they feel about the west. They've got nukes too. - echoparkdirt, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6Yeah, well, what happened to the "tiny minority of extremists" line? The "Religion of Peace " line? Is that out the window?
- gruvsf, on 10/12/2007, -8/+14I also want to make a point that the state of Israel did not exist prior to 1948 and was carved out of traditional Palenstine. They claim that they have a right to exist, but what about the inhabitants of the territory that it was carved out from? Just throwing that out there for arguement's sake.
- Quactaur, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10It's a very good point. As i said somewhere at the top though, few nations were born that didn't involve one group getting, for want of a better word, shafted.
America > Indians
Rome > Italian tribes whose women were stolen and lands taken
Persia > Too much to mention
Britain > East India Trading company is the best example
The last one was an empire, but the example shows that all through history, the creation of new nations is painful. The expelled Arabs lost there, greatly, and if it were possible to go back they should have gotten their land back; the British should have controlled the release of Palestine in a fair way.
But that's what has happened, and Israel has been around so long that its current generation were not of that time, and are simply Jewish people who want a home. Whatever the errors in its birth, it can't be denied existence now. What's done was done and the Arab states and groups should work to see that happens. Israel however isn't helping with its bullheadedness. - geekee, on 10/12/2007, -14/+7"I also want to make a point that the state of Israel did not exist prior to 1948 and was carved out of traditional Palenstine."
Israel existed long before there was such a thing as a Muslim, not that they were the first to inhabit the land either. - OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -9/+5[quote]Israel existed long before there was such a thing as a Muslim, not that they were the first to inhabit the land either.[/quote]
That's right. Now why allow ANYONE to justify their control over territory based SOLELY on religious claims?
Resurrecting this country again was a huge mistake. One that may kill us all.
I guess some of you don't realize that when it was being discussed, the other location chosen to resurrect Israel was Africa. Had that happened, we would not have any of this conflict and the Jews would have their own state.
Instead, Israel was resurrected under RELIGIOUS claims, and once again portrayed as the "Holy Land." Now we have all these imbeciles killing each other over it and dragging the whole world down with them to hell. - bosewicht, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5"I also want to make a point that the state of Israel did not exist prior to 1948 and was carved out of traditional Palenstine"
Hmm, there were some other countries carved out of Palestine as well, but nobody is saying they don't have a right to exist. - geekee, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5"Resurrecting this country again was a huge mistake. One that may kill us all."
Europe sure showed them how welcome they were there during WWII. - geekee, on 10/12/2007, -5/+4""That's right. Now why allow ANYONE to justify their control over territory based SOLELY on religious claims?
Resurrecting this country again was a huge mistake. One that may kill us all."
Right, it's only ok for Muslim countries to exist in the Middle East. Blatant hypocrisy. - stevenley, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1Umm, Real Islam (not Fundamentalist), Christianity and Judiasm hold that Israel is the Jews land.
Also Christians and Muslims hold that the religions are extentions of the bible. So essentially your saying how many billion people are full of *****?
- Quactaur, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10It's a very good point. As i said somewhere at the top though, few nations were born that didn't involve one group getting, for want of a better word, shafted.
- mossrockss, on 10/12/2007, -11/+6Well-said LubbertDas. Everyone condemns the nations who have to retaliate against an attack from a Muslim nation, while they laud the Muslim nation for standing up to oppression. Or at the very least, they aren't so quick to condemn said Muslim nation. Everything gets flipped on its head. Muslim extremists were responsible for which of the following: September 11, the London train bombings, the Madrid train bombings, the 1991 World Trade Center Attack, the Munich Olympics bombing...
- Quactaur, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13Muslim nations != Muslim terrorists.
Ask the KKK, that crazy "godhatesfags" woman or the manifestors of the Spanish inqusition if religious minorities are representative of countries that have the same religion in dominance. - mossrockss, on 10/12/2007, -9/+4Oh wait, I forgot that Lebanon, Syria, Iran, etc. are all run by extreme Muslim dictators. How many non-extremist nations do you know whose stated goal is to "wipe a country off the face of the earth"?
- drizek, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7When has lebanon said they wanted to wipe israel off the face of the eath? They said they want a cease fire.
You people make up lies about these people and then criticize them for things they didnt say. Do you somehow stand to profit from the deaths of innocent people or do you actually believe what youre saying? - bosewicht, on 10/12/2007, -7/+4How many Christians or Jews strap explosives on their back and blow themselves up in cafes, colleges, etc?
- Quactaur, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13Muslim nations != Muslim terrorists.
- chickenselects, on 10/12/2007, -14/+11Israel is fighting the worlds war on the front lines.
- drizek, on 10/12/2007, -8/+10Except every country in the world is telling israel to stand down.
- weeFred, on 10/12/2007, -6/+5They're only telling them to stand down because they are hypocritical. As soon as The US was attacked they invaded another country and took down the government. This was done because they did not hand over the perpatrator of the attacks (osama bin laden) and because they did not do anything to stop al qaeda. Nearly every nation in the world supported them with this, answer me this.... whats so different with Israel's case? Lebandon has not done anything to stop Hezbollah or any terrorist group operating out of the country, they have not arrested or punished any terrorists from their country. And people moan about Israel having Lebanese terrorists imprisoned.... maybe they wouldn't have to if lebanon would imprison them itself, but again they have impunity.
- BrOuZeR, on 10/12/2007, -13/+7You know the one thing that really ticks me off is how militants and people who protest against Israel, (might be a bit random..) make their kids involved with all of it, its brainwashing them. If you watched the news where the Labanese or Palistinains or whatever are protesting and how they want Israel to die, etc. they always have their kids with them...some are toddlers and they being exposed to all this crap. Come on! They are harbering the future generation of terror (or whatever you wanna call it.)
- ybisme, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6possibly cause those kids may have lost their fathers or mothers or both, as part of 'collateral' damage.
- BrOuZeR, on 10/12/2007, -5/+2Not impossible. But consider how they also learn to hate Israelis from an early age, learn to use guns.
- brickbat, on 10/12/2007, -7/+14Why is it an arrest when Israel does it and kidnapping when Palestine does it? Israel has 9000 Palestinians - Palestine has 1 Israeli. Obviously that 1 is something that makes it ok to kill even more Palestinians. Does anyone know any of the names of the 9000 "arrested" Palestinians? But we all know the name of the Israeli.
- BrOuZeR, on 10/12/2007, -11/+4I think thats maybe because most of them wanted to annihalate Israel and kill all Jews and Israelis etc. and it wouldnt matter who they were cause they were gonna kill blow themsleves to pieces anyway, while that 1 Israeli soldier is trying to protect his country and doesnt try to commit suicide "for the cause". Think about it..
- Quactaur, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3That's spin for you. It can be said that there is a difference, but neither side picks up on it : not in the warfare between the two groups (war is war, though terrorists do commit far worse acts on those captured (not kidnapped). The difference is, the typical islamic terrorist has a faint idea what they are doing (but for those of you who have ever seen, read or watched a terror cleric preaching, it's pretty close to brainwashing) and believe in their cause, but a great majority of Israeli soldiers are those drafted into their mandatory one year service. I don't know whether the few that have been captured in the last two weeks are conscripts, but if they are, all the worse for them; being in a war they do not want and a cause they do not believe in through violence.
- BrOuZeR, on 10/12/2007, -12/+7Hmm I also see it kinda lame how the Muslim people have places like Iraq, Iran, Labannon, Syria, etc. for them and Jewish people have this tiny piece of land called Israel and this country has to fight off the hordes of iran, Syria and all. Its unfair if you think about it.
I dont mean to be biased and everything, but imo its all so messed up.- Quactaur, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8The muslim people don't. The Arab people do, they're an ethnic group and because of their religious size (over 1 billion) they have this land. The Jews are smaller in number (ever before the great attrocity) and have been (unfairly) displaced many times in the past. They are still semitic people, both Jews and Arabs, so racially there's no difference. Religiously, it can be said Jews are lacking in terms of space, but then, theirs is a smaller populace.
Israel is also a beautiful country; Palestine really got the short end of the stick in terms of the land they received, for the most part.
- Quactaur, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8The muslim people don't. The Arab people do, they're an ethnic group and because of their religious size (over 1 billion) they have this land. The Jews are smaller in number (ever before the great attrocity) and have been (unfairly) displaced many times in the past. They are still semitic people, both Jews and Arabs, so racially there's no difference. Religiously, it can be said Jews are lacking in terms of space, but then, theirs is a smaller populace.
- angrybulldog, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9the US wants to attack Iran AND keep the hard-liners in office beyond Bush's exit. This skirmish is a frighteningly effective way to suck Iran (or blame Iran) and ratchet up tensions ... this is not good, not good at all
- BrOuZeR, on 10/12/2007, -6/+0@ Quactaur
Oh right, sorry bout that. My bad.- drizek, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1Are you being sarcastic?
- BrOuZeR, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3Not at all, I made a mistake. Sorry.
- Quactaur, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Nothing to apologize for, i wasn't even correcting you, just giving an observation or explanation for why Jews have the part of Palestine.
- Wavey, on 10/12/2007, -5/+2I don't always agree with this guy, but his article today pretty much says it all for me on the issue of Israel:
http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/435068p-366373c.html - DCMacHead, on 10/12/2007, -7/+7To recap, Hamas (democratically elected) and Hizbollah (democratically elected) factions of two governments saw fit to kidnap two Israeli soldiers. This has to be the stupidest way to start a war, but I believe Israel is well within its bounds to pound the sh*t out of these people.
Two things I find encouraging:
1) The "playing field", weapons-wise, is considerably more level than it was in past conflicts--I don't see any stone throwing as we saw in the past.
2) The folks on the Palestinian and Hizbollah side elected these clowns, too--the people effectively were given a choice of their "representation" and these terrorists were the guys they thought would make good leaders.
With the weapons field leveler than it was in the past and democratically elected terrorist leadership, I hope Israel has the stones to kill every last one of these barbarians. The last war that was won decisively was World War II where the enemy was utterly stomped (think of the curb scene in "American History X")--I hope the Palestinians learn from unbridled Israeli violence that they must get along with other people.- drizek, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6hizbollah wasnt democratically elected. There are hizbollah members in the lebanese government but they dont run the country.
- DCMacHead, on 10/12/2007, -6/+3@ drizek
And the Lebanese people let this happen, sat back, and didn't do a god damned thing about it. I say tough sh*t. I hope Israel has the stones to finish off Hizbollah and anyone who fights on Hizbollah's behalf. - raisputin, on 10/12/2007, -9/+4DIE ISRAEL and all who condone their abhorrent behavior!
- ViperDaimao, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1"hizbollah wasnt democratically elected. There are hizbollah members in the lebanese government but they dont run the country."
ummm, and how did they get in the govt? Through some sort of democratic election process perhaps?
- jamessavik, on 10/12/2007, -7/+7I'm sick and tired of Hamas or Hezbollah talking war and then when they get their azz kicked they whine about it.
Everyone knows that Hezbollah don't do anything without orders from Iran. Maybe it's time for Iran to pay up for 30 years of murder by proxy.
Send them to hell Israel. - hbomb, on 10/12/2007, -7/+6Can we agree not to use the term Islamofascists here? It's retarded (i.e. doesn't make sense).
- DCMacHead, on 10/12/2007, -7/+3yeah it does, you f*cking moron. move along and strap a vest on, f*ck face.
- echoparkdirt, on 10/12/2007, -6/+7Islamofascist is a fine word, which basically means people who are fighting for a totalitarian concept of Islam which would rule the state and all the people. Totalitarianism + Islam = Islamofascism. It's a very descriptive word, IMHO
- Str1der, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8I've seen comments with people eager to encourage Israel's right to bomb or Hezbollah's right to wage war . Consider if your family was there, would you be so eager ... I think not !
Very easy being an armchair general, no need to consider less violent means when you have nothing to risk.
My personal view is that militaristicly Israel is superior and knows it. It is just looking for an excuse to use its muscle to prove it and force all less developed neighboring nations to acknowledge it.
Not saying what Hezbollah did is right, but this is heavily one sided war and thus the poorer person will use whatever means available to rebel back.- DCMacHead, on 10/12/2007, -10/+5Israel needs to ruthlessly pound these people into the ground. I hope this situation escalates into a full blown World War instead of tit-for-tat stuff. People need to pick a side--do you want to live in a world ruled by Islam, or a tolerant world where Jews, Hindus, Christians, and Buddhists are tolerated.
Read the Koran cover to cover and you'll find the following quotes:
4.34 Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.
2.109 Many of the followers of the Book wish that they could turn you back into unbelievers after your faith, out of envy from themselves, (even) after the truth has become manifest to them; but pardon and forgive, so that Allah should bring about His command; surely Allah has power over all things.
2.191 And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.
5.51 O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people. - Str1der, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7@DCMacHead
I recommend then you volunteer to go to the frontline.
You so conveniently place islam on one side and every other religion on the other. Look into any holy book and you can find something you disagree with .. Keep your preaching to yourself. - DCMacHead, on 10/12/2007, -6/+7@ Str1der
I am agnostic and I'm a big believer in the Golden Rule. Organized religion has led to more deaths than nuclear weapons, WMDs, etc. And I think that people who use it to subjugate others should be stomped. There are Muslim Israelis, but I have yet to hear about Jews freely living in Muslim countries.
As I said earlier, read the Koran cover to cover and it will explain a lot as to why the world seems to be filled with Muslim violence. - Str1der, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6@DCMacHead
Nothings changed then, you desire to destroy a society / group of people you don't agree with. So you are no better than any organised religion which has perpetuated war. - DCMacHead, on 10/12/2007, -6/+4@ Str1der
I won't bother to post it again, but after you've seen first hand the suffering inflicted by people who literally interpret Islamic teachings, perhaps you will understand why I despise this religion. I sought to understand it after listening to a colleague of mine plead with a sibling to leave the second World Trade Center tower, only to see his death on live TV as the phone line went dead.
Again, I would encourage everyone to read the Koran cover to cover and say with a straight face that it's a tolerant, peaceful religion. It is not--read the Koran for yourself. - weeFred, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5Finally an answer to why everytime i turn on the news and see fighting it always involves islamic groups or countries. whether it be iraq, pakistan, afghanistan, somalia, algeria, sri lanka, singapore, indonesia, malaysia, Philippines, India, uzbekistan, Morocco, Saudi arabia or Israel and Lebanon....... lets face it, all they do cause fights.
- star, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7It seems that we in the person behind "DCMacHead" have found another zionist bigot...
DCMacHead: "Israel needs to ruthlessly pound these people into the ground. I hope this situation escalates into a full blown World War instead of tit-for-tat stuff."
Str1der: "I recommend then you volunteer to go to the frontline."
DCMacHead: "I am agnostic and I'm a big believer in the Golden Rule."
ROFL...Of course, mr. armchair chickenhawk want other to die for his agenda, not wanting to risk anything himself. How extremely predictable.
- DCMacHead, on 10/12/2007, -10/+5Israel needs to ruthlessly pound these people into the ground. I hope this situation escalates into a full blown World War instead of tit-for-tat stuff. People need to pick a side--do you want to live in a world ruled by Islam, or a tolerant world where Jews, Hindus, Christians, and Buddhists are tolerated.
- Quactaur, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2I don't want to get into the mechanics and reasons why extremist Islamic republics exist (it is to a large part down to the remnant of colonialism, globalisation and mass media, there are many books on the matter if you search.) but lots of leaders have said things tongue-in-cheek. While Iran's leader is admittedly an extremist, his outburst of that drew a lot of criticism within Iran. Besides which, Iran isn't involved in this dispute, yet.
- Dotnetsky, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Good stuff, the comments. It's interesting how at the top you basically have a lot of flame-throwing and name calling and side-taking, accomplishing little. Then as you move to the bottom you get more considered opinions , more thought and perhaps evidence of an above room-temperature IQ.
- Sassanix, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7They could stop the fights and and respect both sides, and U.S. could stop selling weapons to Israel, Israel has WMD's and no one says anything about it?! Iran could do the same thing with Hizbollah through United Nation sanctions. Israel attacks Lebonan a U.S. ally but still no one cares, the majority of the civilians are Christians just so that some of you muslim haters would know! In Lebonan the Christians and the Muslims live with each other in peace. There is allways a reaction to an action, and that is why I'm predicting massive deaths from both sides, and I'm guessing Iran will send troops through Syria to fight and Syria will do the same... and behold WWIII
- DCMacHead, on 10/12/2007, -7/+5Inaccurate on Lebanese Christians. A great deal of them were forced out by intolerant Muslims and they are now a minority.
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/le.html#People - stevenley, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6How Lebanese Muslims treat Lebanese Christians:
http://www.americancongressfortruth.com/
- DCMacHead, on 10/12/2007, -7/+5Inaccurate on Lebanese Christians. A great deal of them were forced out by intolerant Muslims and they are now a minority.
- karn, on 10/12/2007, -5/+7Israel is and always will be just as much at fault for causing unrest in the middle east, as the arabic states are. Israel itself was created in 1948. Palestinians are still pissed off that they were for the most part forcibly removed from their homes. How would you feel if the UN decided they wanted to move you out of your house, and put someone else there? People are still harboring bad feelings over this to this day. And most of these people blame america. Unfortunately there is no changing the past. And the Hezbollah is not the general view of the lebanese people. Lebanon was still recovering from the last civil war that occured there. The palestinians that were forced out of their homes, now occupy parts of lebanon and continue to provoke israel. The whole situation over there is retarded.
- TheBarge, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5Actually, the Israelis legally purchased the land and farmed it. They lived peacefully alongside Arabs. Then there was unrest, they formed their own defensive unit, the arabs attacked them, and THEN they kicked them out.
- Ubermenschster, on 10/12/2007, -6/+4Interesting Article - NOT. PROPAGANDA.
Israel has Nuclear Weapons.- DCMacHead, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5...and it doesn't threaten to use them as other countries that desire them do.
- Str1der, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6What does it intend to use or stockpile them for ??
- DCMacHead, on 10/12/2007, -5/+2@ Str1der
As a deterrent, just as the U.S., France, England, China, Russia, India, Pakistan, and a few others do. - Wavey, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Exactly. Strength through deterrence.
- Str1der, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2i have a problem with the excuse of Deterrent.
These countries have already enough capabilities to lay waste to most of the world. Yet they continue to stockpile more. Then they act surprised and find justification in stockpiling when neighboring countries get their backs up and defensive and decide to take measures to protect or build equivalent capabilities.
Its in the process of building this deterrent that the problems lies.
An interesting point is that Isreal continues to invest / research more powerful, destructive and lethal chemical, biological weapons, without any surperviosion and without agreing to any international treaty of control. Is anyone shouting out about that ?
- staticneuron, on 10/12/2007, -7/+2I don't want to seem evil here. Points have been brought up here that paints this situation as shades of gray. If Israel birth cannot be attributed or faulted then why are we debating or even caring. They have enough strength and firepower to stand on thier own feet. After hearing about the ME for years and years I really want the poweres that be to go at it, while the rest of the world stays out of thier business. Who is left standing gets acknowledged and is helped to build a better future for themselves.
- DCMacHead, on 10/12/2007, -5/+2I disagree regarding shades of grey--it's about as black and white as you can get. You have one religion that's tolerant and one that's not. I find it appalling that some people line up behind the little guy, the Palestinians, who subscribe to the most intolerant, misogynistic religion the world has ever known.
- staticneuron, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3It should be about religious tolerance at all. Thank you for showing me a POV of why people should stick thier nose where it doesn't belong. No matter what you "think" moral relativity does exists. And while I may not believe or follow what the palastinians do or the israelites I still wouldn't want my country to get involved.
- echoparkdirt, on 10/12/2007, -8/+4This is all one war. The Islamists in Iran are behind Hezbollah and we must support Israel, which shares our values and is a loyal ally. In many ways, this is the Spanish Civil War all over again -- a proxy battle for a global war.
- TGMD, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4That's the danger. Here's the Situation in a nutshell.
1. A long time ago people got pissed off...
2. fast foward to now.
3. Iran developes a nuclear weapons program and basically says ***** you to the world.
4. Mid-east peace is derailed again, its starts small then turns into rocket attacks and kidnapping
5. Israel does what Israel does best, Blows ***** up in response. It's justified in some respects but it just pisses people off further.
6. more rockets, some reports suggest Iran is giving hezbollah the rockets and support them. Proxy battle...
7. This makes three basic groups. Syria, Iran, lebonon on one side and the US, Israel and possibly the EU on the other, everyone else trying to be neutral.
8.unless someone calms ***** down one side is going to provoke the other into a full scale war (It will start small and hopefully stay small, say Israel declaring war on Lebonon.... what will escalate if further is if Iran backs lebonon that would bring the US into it (with Iraq in the middle))
9. Oh yeah did I mention that all our oil is there? guess what happens if group A starts going after group B with all that oil in the middle. - Str1der, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8loyal ally ?? to whom ?
From my view, i have never seen Isreal suit anyones best interest buts itself. - ybisme, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6echopark, after examining your profile it is easy to see that 99% of your articles are either proisreal or islamaphobic.
stop with your racist hate filled propaganda or take it elsewhere to a isreali website where you can openly discuss it with your countrymen. don't come here to try and sway the digg population to be sympathetic to your views.
Edit: this goes along the lines of what some users who have been buried at the top of this article have said - Ubermenschster, on 10/12/2007, -5/+4@TGMD
You have no idea what you are talking about. You are only regurgitating what the television and newspaper tell us everyday. So, I am going to rebuttal all your points and I would like you to do the same. Here we go:
"That's the danger. Here's the Situation in a nutshell."
"1. A long time ago people got pissed off..."
Who got pissed off?
"2. fast foward to now.
3. Iran developes a nuclear weapons program and basically says ***** you to the world."
Interesting... By any chance do you know when Iran developed their nuclear weapons program? Or if they are allowed to? Wait, I think I do. In 1968, Iran signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty along many other countries that would allow them to develop a nuclear program in order to research nuclear power. So they have the right to do this and the United States or any other country have no proof that they have a nuclear weapons program. Now, on the other hand - Israel has not signed this same treaty and they have nuclear weapons; we know this for a fact. But, nothing is being done about it. Why? At least Iran has signed a treaty allowing them to have nuclear research. Israel has signed nothing and we know they possess nuclear weapons.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/correspondent/2841377.stm
"4. Mid-east peace is derailed again, its starts small then turns into rocket attacks and kidnapping
5. Israel does what Israel does best, Blows ***** up in response. It's justified in some respects but it just pisses people off further.
6. more rockets, some reports suggest Iran is giving hezbollah the rockets and support them. Proxy battle...
7. This makes three basic groups. Syria, Iran, lebonon on one side and the US, Israel and possibly the EU on the other, everyone else trying to be neutral.
8.unless someone calms ***** down one side is going to provoke the other into a full scale war (It will start small and hopefully stay small, say Israel declaring war on Lebonon.... what will escalate if further is if Iran backs lebonon that would bring the US into it (with Iraq in the middle))
9. Oh yeah did I mention that all our oil is there? guess what happens if group A starts going after group B with all that oil in the middle."
All this is some-what accurate, but not really because you are very ambigious about it. Want truth?
Read and research.
www.IfAmericansKnew.org
www.signs-of-the-times.org
www.thenation.com/special/bigten.html - Bytor, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4Ybisme Quoth:
"echopark, after examining your profile it is easy to see that 99% of your articles are either proisreal or islamaphobic."
And Ybisme I notice everyone of your posts are pro terrorist, or anti-Israel, anti USA.
This is a polarizing issue at a time of conflict. People are choosing sides. Some such as yourself support the terrorist, other like myself (and echo) support USA and Israel.
Aside from considering you a supporter of people who on purpose target civilian targets with no military value (Hezbollah attacking cities with rockets), your rampant terrorist sympathies will probably also get your communications monitored for the next several years. Hope you have nothing to hide.
Have a Shiny day. :-) - raisputin, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7WE do not need to support Israel let them go at it alone like we should have done all along.
- Ubermenschster, on 10/12/2007, -5/+7@Bytor
You don't realize yet do you? We are the terrorists. America and Israel. The Duo of Evil and UK as our lapdog (Tony Blair.)
We are the crazy patriotic ones waving our flags for "freedom, libery, and democracy," but right infront of our very eyes, those civil liberties that we are waving our flags for our disappearing everyday for the sake of "security." Yet, we cheer "God Bless America" while we kill Iraqi civilians for the sake of "freedom." We support Israel, a country that kills innocent civilians, again for the sake of "democracy."
So let me ask you my friend, what kind of democracy kills people? What kind of democracy allows for secret wire-tapping, secret prisons, and being trialed for torture? What kind of democracy hacks elections? Or kills 3,000 of it's own people and blaims it on Bin Laden?
America. - Bytor, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4UberCrazy Quoth "So let me ask you my friend, what kind of democracy kills people? What kind of democracy allows for secret wire-tapping, secret prisons, and being trialed for torture? What kind of democracy hacks elections? Or kills 3,000 of it's own people and blaims it on Bin Laden? America."
This must be some of that "debate" you wanted to engage in. You know at some point when you get tired of people calling you a crazy conspiracy theorist, perhaps you need to check yourself in for observation. Blame it on Bin Laden? Bin Laden admitted it on tape broadcast to the world you freaking nutbar. But yeah all the media is lies and only the voices in your head are right. Don't let them keep you up at night. - echoparkdirt, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3First of all, you have no idea what my background is. Second of all, Islam is a religion, and not a race. To call someone "racist" for mentioning the little fact that the world is facing a global wave of terror from people who boast that they are blowing infidels up for the glory of Allah and Islam makes no sense.
- TGMD, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4That's the danger. Here's the Situation in a nutshell.
- shantambee3, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14Living in the Sultanate of Oman (southeast of Saudi Arabia) for five years has taught me many things.
I have met a lot of Lebanese Christians, Lebanese Muslims, and Lebanese Druze.
All I can say is that finger-pointing and name calling leads nobody anywhere. Israeli's blame Arabs for provoking them. Arabs blames Israelis for invading and annexing Arab territory. As far as I can see, such actions on both side do not contribute to a peaceful solution.
Hezbollah has taken unilateral action against the Israelis, and now they face retaliation. While I can't blame Hezballah for resisting Israel's offense, neither can I blame Israel for defending their people.
Personally, I wish that our Arab governments would take examples from the Israeli political system - allowing people to voice their concerns, change the course of what the government direction, and so on.
On the other hand, I really do feel that Israel uses excessive force on sovereign states, using collective punishment to teach their neighbors a lesson. I'll probably be modded down for this, but it's my honest opinion.
My family live in these gulf states, and I fear for their safety nowadays. At the same time, I can't imagine what goes on in the minds of Israeli civilians who live in an area surrounded by nations that literally hate them, for one word of another.
The way I see it, both side need to stop blaming each other as to who started this conflict, and both sides have committed atrocities in the name of whatever they believe in.
As a regular civilian, I hope that one day both sides come to terms and agree on a peace solution that would benefit the well being of both sides of the conflict rather than fighting each other.- echoparkdirt, on 10/12/2007, -5/+4Since Israel withdrew to the Israel-Lebanese border in 2006, I'm not sure what else they can do to "make peace" with Hezbollah. Fanatics and Jihadists, IMHO, need to be killed.
- echoparkdirt, on 10/12/2007, -5/+6Ooops -- Israel withdrew to international border in 2000, not 2006.
- Ubermenschster, on 10/12/2007, -6/+9Sigh...If it were only that easy.
You speak kinds words of wisdom, but the sad fact is - this is happening for a reason. There are powers behind all of this that are molding what is happening and what is going to happen.
There is no such thing as a coincidence.
What am I talk about?
Zionists.
What is a Zionist? An extreme person that seeks Israel as a land for the Jews. It's an obsession. It's a disorder. It's what is controlling the world and we need to stop it by talking about it.
It is also very important to point out that Zionism is not synonymous with Judaism or even Israeli. It is a term of it's owned to describe the very extreme Jews who live for that goal; to have an indepedent state solely for Jews. There are many Jews and Israelis that are not Zionists, many of them speak publicly about it - Noam Chomsky being one of the most reknown. There are Jews and Israelis that don't even know what Zionism truly is - most think that anti-Zionists is the same as anti-Jew, anti-Israel, or even anti-Semitic, but it is not. Zionists are to Extreme Jews as Neo-Conservatives are to Extreme Conservatives. Extremities are never good and we can learn that simple fact by looking closely at reality and history itself (Nazi German led by Hitler is the epitome.)
Israel is provoking all of this; this is exactly what they want. Read this:
"They elected Yitzak Rabin as Prime Minister and Rabin made more strides towards achieving peace than any of his processors. The 1990's were a quiet years in Israel. Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat and Prime Minister Rabin appeared to have finally reached a peace deal the US acting as the mediator.
This did not sit well with the hard core Zionists who ultimately hope to expand Israel's borders even more. Hopes for a lasting peace deal were soon dealt a major setback when a flurry of five bullets were pumped into Prime Minister Rabin at close range as he was attending a 1995 Israeli peace rally. It was not an Arab that killed Rabin. It was a Zionist fanatic named Yigal Amir. Amir was a law student at Israel’s Bar-Ilan University. He later told investigators that he had no regrets for his actions. Amir, a bright young law student was willing to throw his life away in the service of the Zionist cause. "
- http://signs-of-the-times.org/signs/Stranger_Than_Fiction.php
Not sure? Research it. Use google, use wikipedia, USE YOUR BRAIN.
9/11 is a conspiracy that involves Israel. Don't believe me? Again, google it. You'll find it if only if you want to find it. And once you find it, you can confirm other sources and you won't be able to stop.
Turn off your televisions, stop reading the newspapers, and do your own research. The internet is going to disappear soon and it will be too late. Once net neutrality is broken down by new laws, non-profit organizations and streaming videos are going to be history.
90% of the media is owned by 6 companies; 6 companies that mold your perception the way they want you to think. It's called brainwashing for a reason. This is not a joke. - Bytor, on 10/12/2007, -8/+4Uberterrorist, I always laugh when I see someone start a post with, Sigh...
Yep you are so smart and weary from explaining the zionist conspiracy in all these posts over and over again. Oh wait you are just cutting and pasting the same post over and over again. - Ubermenschster, on 10/12/2007, -6/+4Yup and you are the one to come in the posts and call people like me "crazy" for saying what I am saying. But then again, you're the problem. You watch television and read newspapers and read everything you believe. You are actually the epitome of being a "product of the system." They brainwashed you and it worked. You are a sheep.
It's easy to discredit someone by just insulting them and calling them a "conspiracy theorist," but how about some real debate? - weeFred, on 10/12/2007, -5/+4Obsession with land??? Israel has given it's own land many times to try and appease these nutters. If you want to speak about obsession with land i think the only context you can do this in is arab obsession with israels land. The only land israel has is land that was given to them after ww2 or land they have been fired on from countries that have tried to destroy it...... not to mention that the whole region belonged to them in the first place.
- Ubermenschster, on 10/12/2007, -6/+6Well, let's see. In 1947, the lines were drawn 55/45 in Israel's favor. Then in 1967 Israel conqured 22% more land from the 1967 War. So, the Israelis occupied land that did not belong to them - regardless if they conquered it or not. Israel's action of conquering more land completely contradicts the formation of Israel. UN does not recognize that the West Bank and Gaza Strip are a part of the Israel. Neither do the Palestinians.
If conquering more land in 1967 was lawful, then the formation of Israel in 1917 through the Balfour Declaration should be considered illegitmate. The Jews were kicked out of the region from over a thousand years ago in 135 by the Romans. That is over 1700 years. 1700 Years!! The United States was founded in 1776 and that is just a little over 300 years - which is still a very long time ago. But 1700 years is 1400 years apart, which means A LOT has changed since then. Think about this. Science, mathematics, technology, EVERYTHING CHANGED. THE HUMAN RACE EVOLVED AFTER 1700 YEARS. What happened to our society in the past should stay in the past, we can't change it - but we can help build a better future by creating systems in which people can co-exist. Digging up skeletons out of the closet only causes trouble. And that is what Israel is. The land was lived on peacefully by everyone, but then the Zionists had to influence Britain after WWI to create Israel, a land for Jewish people.
So why was Israel established in the first place? Why did Britain have to create a conflict by bringing up an issue that was over 1700 years old? That is just how history played and most importantly, our grandparents had nothing to do with it. their great grandparents had nothing to do with it; their great grandparents had nothing to do with it; their great grandparents had nothing to do with it; their great grandparents had nothing to do with it; their great grandparents had nothing to do with it...
Why did Zionists have to dig up this 1700 old issue? The creation of Israel has only caused us trouble since its' creation. Think about it.
I think you get the point.
- DasBub, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4And the real tragedy here?
The submitter used "sew" instead of "sow"...- ybisme, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3lol
- meph, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2yeah, if only now we could learn to crochet terror too
- shantambee3, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6"change the course of what the government direction, and so on."
I also wanted to add what strikes me the most is how Israel's determination to recapture their people from the kidnappers. I wish that our governments cared that much about their people.- iputty, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6yeah really. israel has always had the reputation that they'd give up many prisoners for the bodies of dead soldiers and they've done it with hezbollah as recently as 2001 (maybe 2000) trading 500 prosoners for 4 bodies and a live civilian. i'm surprised it took the arabs this long to think of kidnapping israelis to trade back.
obviously it's a dangerous path and i don't think israel can negotiate for their release. negotiating in 2001 just brought another kidnapping episode. tough situation. - ybisme, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5"Israel's determination to recapture their people from the kidnappers"
or is it?
don't you think there could be any political motives, at all?
just a thought..
- iputty, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6yeah really. israel has always had the reputation that they'd give up many prisoners for the bodies of dead soldiers and they've done it with hezbollah as recently as 2001 (maybe 2000) trading 500 prosoners for 4 bodies and a live civilian. i'm surprised it took the arabs this long to think of kidnapping israelis to trade back.
- shantambee3, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Obviously there are political motives to it. Everything does.
I'm just saying that if I were a soldier that was kidnapped and fighting for my country, I'd expect my country to fight for me as well.- ybisme, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2i understand what you mean, and i agree
im just presenting some food for thought - raisputin, on 10/12/2007, -5/+2Were I a soldier kidnapped by whomever, I wouldn't expect my country to do ***** for me. I would do my own best to do what I could for myself, or tell them to just kill me.
- ybisme, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2i understand what you mean, and i agree
- sybrows, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Yea but you would hope for the best and pray jack mo hammed Bauer or whatever was gonna save your democracised ass
- d00ley, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Does it really appear to everyone that Israel's actions during these last days are an honest attempt to retrieve the soldiers?
- stevenley, on 10/12/2007, -6/+1There a attempt to get rid of hizbullan forever. That way 20 years down the line they dont have to worry about a nuclear equiped hizbullah.
- OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4Well, one thing is clear, America is going to have to learn the hard way.
That's not a threat by my, just an observation. I personally don't give a damn about any nation. I'll be on the first banana boat out of here as soon as the nukes drop. New Zealand is looking very nice, compared to the rest of these warmongering, religious cannibals behind the Jihad and Crusade. I just hope they don't destroy the whole planet, my banana boat doesn't have hyperspace drives. - d00ley, on 10/12/2007, -5/+6If we apply the same standards of criticism to Israel when Israeli settlers attack and kill Palestinians, we would unfairly generalize and hold the entire Israeli population accountable for the actions of a few. Seriously, Israeli settlers and undisciplined soldiers attack, harass, and kill Palestinians on a regular basis. Would it be right to constantly hate, oppress and kill the Israeli population for the acts of these rogue Israeli terrorists? No. Of course not. So why do we constantly hold the entire Palestinian... no, the entire Arab population accountable for the actions of shady Arab terrorist organizations that literally make up a fraction of a percent of the Arab population. I'm asking a serious and legitimate questions here :-)
Random Examples:
http://english.people.com.cn/200506/29/eng20050629_193099.html
http://www.imemc.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=19419&Itemid=147
http://www.aljazeerah.info/News%20archives/2006%20News%20Archives/June/20%20n/Illegal%20Israeli%20settlers%20stone%20a%20Palestinian%20to%20death%20in%20Hebron's%20Old%20City,%20while%20Israeli%20occupation%20soldiers%20beat%20a%20Palestinian%20child.htm
http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/060601/2006060108.html- DCMacHead, on 10/12/2007, -6/+4'maybe 'cause they strap bombs to themselves and walk into cafes and other public areas and blow themselves up, leaving death and destruction in their wake...then the folks back home pass out candy and the family gets a sum from hamas for their "sacrifice"?
- AhmedOmran, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5@d00ley: Kudos, you hit the nail right on the head =)
@DCMacHead: I think you didn't understand what he just said. So shut up. - Wavey, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2@AhmedOmran: It is obvious that you didn't understand what DCMacHead just said.
- bgoodknight, on 10/12/2007, -6/+1http://www.zipperfish.com/free/yaafm12.php