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Hamas Officials: 11 dead in battle with Doghmush clan

jpost.com — "At least 40 wounded in Gaza Strip street battles raging since early morning; Hamas police officer, young boy among those killed in clashes." - so....where's the indignation? where's the clamoring? the accusations of genocide?

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foopirata 63 days ago

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Who Dugg It?

Salesti, on 09/16/2008, -4/+25I guess it's just not the "in" thing to do -- pointing out what non-Israelis do with their weapons.
Pffffft.
- RightHand, on 09/17/2008, -7/+1Aug 17, 2007 17:52 | Updated Aug 18, 2007 15:49
  Hamas takes arms from Gaza clan
  http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JP ...
  By ASSOCIATED PRESS
  GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip
  
  Hamas forces have collected weapons from a large, influential clan linked to the four-month kidnapping of a BBC reporter, Hamas said Friday. The Doghmush family turned in 60 weapons to the forces for the Hamas rulers of the Gaza Strip on Thursday, Hamas spokesman Saber Khalifa said.
  
  Hamas agreed to let the clan keep several weapons on the condition that they are used against Israel and against Palestinians in any future fighting, Khalifa said.
  
  Hamas has tried since its bloody takeover of Gaza from the rival Fatah movement in June to demonstrate its authority, calling for weapons to be turned in and preventing demonstrations by political rivals.
  
  Those from the Doghmush clan who were linked to the kidnapping of BBC reporter Alan Johnston would be "brought to justice," Khalifa said. "The goal is not to collect the weapons, but to impose law and order and make the family stick to its commitments," he said.
  
  Although infighting in Gaza has been rare since the Hamas takeover, tensions between Hamas and the Doghmush family have been high. Two members of the Hamas force were killed earlier this week when Hamas and the Doghmush clan traded rifle and grenade fire after the Hamas forces tried to arrest a clansman.
  
  The Doghmushes have ties to the Army of Islam, a shadowy group that held Johnston. The group also was involved in the 2006 kidnapping of IDF Cpl. Gilad Schalit, who remains in captivity.
  ... JPost
- RightHand, on 09/17/2008, -7/+1Young men in Gaza have little to do except join one of these groups. Members of these groups are almost always unemployed, and the organization or militia is the only place where they can give content to their lives and feel a sense of belonging. Only within these organizations do they feel that they are worth something.
  
  Anarchy wins in Gaza May 17
  http://clipmarks.com/clipmark/AA7F59B8-4208-4A77-9 ...
  
  Anarchy wins in Gaza
  http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/859556.html
  By Danny Rubinstein
  A few dozen armed groups are active in Gaza, from large official organizations to small, clan-based gangs. But most of the clashes of the past few days have been between two large organizations: Hamas's Operational Units (most of which are affiliated with the organization's military wing, Iz a-Din al-Qassam) and two security services headed by Fatah men, the Preventive Security Service and General Intelligence (which are affiliated with Fatah's military wing, the Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades). Gaza residents and journalists say that the Operational Units' organization, discipline and weapons are far superior to those of the Fatah groups.
  
  In order to understand the activities of the various armed organizations, it is useful to divide them into three main groups:
  a) the official security services, which are supposed to take orders from the PA's political leadership;
  b) the groups affiliated with different political factions, which are essentially party militias; and
  c) the clan-based gangs. Almost every large family or clan in Gaza has its own private army.
  
  This division is only schematic, since often (and very possibly most of the time), someone employed by one of the official services also belongs to a party militia, and when needed, he can also be found in the ranks of his family's private army. Thus the same person can belong to several different organizations simultaneously, or move from one to the other. He receives a weapon and a little money from his commanders in each organization.
  
  Young men in Gaza have little to do except join one of these groups. Members of these groups are almost always unemployed, and the organization or militia is the only place where they can give content to their lives and feel a sense of belonging. Only within these organizations do they feel that they are worth something.
  ... Haaretz
- foopirata, on 09/18/2008, -1/+8Gaza City doesn't have sewers. If "young men have nothing to do" employ them into building them. They'll get a good wage for an honest day of work, and the populace will get a decent sewage system. You know, like a real government does.
  
  But no, employing them in the "security forces" is so much better, uh? Everybody wins! And of course, it's all Israel's fault.
- Salesti, on 09/18/2008, -1/+7Exactly!
  And what does that eternally-faulted civilization do for these creatures? Hmmmm.....things like supplying them with all the materials they need to BUILD that sewage system. What rotten people those Israelis must be, helping out like that! No wonder the freaks (recipients) took all those materials, built bombs with it and launched it all back into Israel What are they supposed to do, actually construct a sanitary sewage treatment system? Apparently, they preferred to wait till their crap literally and physically swamped and killed their own people. Real freakin' smart. And, as you've pointed out, it MUST have ...somehow.... been Israel's fault.
  :P
- RightHand, on 09/18/2008, -6/+2MIDEAST: Sewage in Water Threatens Gazans. Gaza is being forced to pump 77 tonnes of untreated or partially treated sewage out to sea daily due to the Israeli blockade of the coastal territory.
  http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=43038
  The fear is that some of this is creeping back into drinking water.
  
  "The health of Gaza's 1.5 million people is at risk," Mahmoud Daher, from the UN World Health Organisation (WHO) told IPS following a report released by WHO after it carried out a number of tests on Gaza's contaminated water.
  
  On the ground Israel's closure has translated into a lack of fuel, electricity and spare parts needed to operate wastewater and sewerage treatment plants. Consequently Gaza's water and sanitation systems are near complete collapse as the power required to run treatment and desalination plants, pump water to homes, and pump sewage away from populated areas is only available on a very limited basis.
  - DreadPirate, on 09/18/2008, -1/+5If the Palestinians spent half of the money that they are given each year on civil projects rather than weapons, this wouldn't happen. Instead they take any pipes they get their hands on and turn them into bombs and rockets. But of course minor facts like that don't matter to an idiot like you. Only the evil Israelis can be at fault for anything!
  - bernk1, on 09/18/2008, -1/+5RightHand, you should research how the People's Republic of China collected human feces and used it for agricultural fertilizer. There is no need to dump sewage into the ocean. There had to have been at least one sewage treatment plant in the entire Gaza Strip, wouldn't you think so?
    
    Don't you know that when the Israelis evacuated the Gaza strip, they left houses and greenhouses and thriving farms intact? And what happened? They were destroyed! Some residents of the area (note that I am not saying THE Arabs or THE Palestinians, but SOME) chose to burn them down so that anything left behind by Jews wouldn't benefit them.
- RightHand, on 09/18/2008, -6/+2Collapse of Water, Sewer and Public Health in Gaza
  http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va& ...
  by Mohammed Omer
  Global Research, January 30, 2008
  
  A stream of dark and putrid sludge snakes through Gaza’s streets. It is a noxious mix of human and animal waste. The stench is overwhelming. The occasional passer-by vomits. Over recent days this has been a more common sight than the sale of food on the streets of Gaza, choked by a relentless Israeli siege.
  
  Hundreds of thousands of Gazans, almost all of its able male adults among a population of 1.5 million, crossed over into Egypt last week to buy essential provisions – and a new lease of life. That has staved off starvation. But streets continue as sewers.
  
  The rain has not helped. The sludge has spread, and the stench with it. Starved of timely income and essential supplies, municipal services have all but ceased.
  
  The World Health Organisation released a statement Jan. 22 warning of serious health difficulties arising in Gaza Strip, isolated by the Israeli siege, the Egyptian border and the Mediterranean Sea.
  
  "Frequent electricity cuts and the limited power available to run hospital generators are of particular concern, as they disrupt the functioning of intensive care units, operating theatres, and emergency rooms," the WHO said. "In the central pharmacy, power shortages have interrupted refrigeration of perishable medical supplies, including vaccine."
  
  Christine McNab, acting director in the communications department in Geneva adds that "our current concerns are about the supply of electricity to health facilities, the ability to move medical supplies into the region, and the ability of people to seek care outside of Gaza."
  
  McNab notes that even if the full blockade is lifted, additional measures would need to be taken by the international community against any further disruptions.
  - DreadPirate, on 09/18/2008, -1/+5What is it? You're not taken seriously so you have go around threads pasting the same damn story? You want that article to show up on digg, submit it. Stop this retarded C&P of the entire story.
  - mashimka, on 09/18/2008, -1/+5lol, imagine him trying to compose something in his own words. I think i'll take the C&P
  - RightHand, on 09/18/2008, -4/+2Illegal Israeli settlers release sewage on Palestinian farms
    
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vE3tHPwmnSQ
    
    The illegal Jewish settlement of Beitar Illit, which is built on stolen Palestinian land, regularly releases its sewage on to the farmlands of the neighbouring Palestinian village of Wadi Fuqeen. To find out more, visit the Friends of Wadi Fuqeen website at
    http://www.wadifuqeenfriends.com
    
    Human waste certainly gets the rat pack interested in a topic.
  - bernk1, on 09/18/2008, -0/+2RightHand, you should research how the People's Republic of China collected human feces and used it for agricultural fertilizer. There is no need to dump sewage into the ocean. There had to have been at least one sewage treatment plant in the entire Gaza Strip, wouldn't you think so?
    
    Don't you know that when the Israelis evacuated the Gaza strip, they left houses and greenhouses and thriving farms intact? And what happened? They were destroyed! Some residents of the area (note that I am not saying THE Arabs or THE Palestinians, but SOME) chose to destroy them so that anything left behind by Jews wouldn't benefit them.
    
    I posted this elsewhere in the comments to this story, didn't you read it? If you can cut-and-paste, then so can others.
  - urik88, on 09/18/2008, -0/+3bernk1, are you seriously expecting RightHand to read something that doesn't fit his interests?
    
    RightHand is the new yellowcakewalk. Only worse, since he doesn't even answer and has no shame.
  - bernk1, on 09/18/2008, -0/+2Urik - Actually, Mr. Right does read the questions we of "the rat pack" pose to him. I tip the hat to him for that. It's just that he doesn't really answer the questions, except by posting another puzzle. I think you should address your inquiries to him.
- RightHand, on 09/18/2008, -6/+3An accurate article
  http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/article.php?pg=11 ...
  The loathsome smearing of Israel's critics
  05.08.2008 | The Indipendent
  By Johann Hari
  
  If you recount the pumping of sewage onto Palestinian land, 'Honest Reporting' claims you are reviving the anti-Semitic myth of Jews 'poisoning the wells.' If you interview a woman whose baby died in 2002 because she was detained - in labour - by Israeli soldiers at a checkpoint within the West Bank, 'Honest Reporting' will say you didn't explain 'the real cause': the election of Hamas in, um, 2006. And on, and on.
  
  The former editor of Israel's leading newspaper, Ha'aretz, David Landau, calls the behaviour of these groups 'nascent McCarthyism'. Those responsible hold extreme positions of their own that place them way to the right of most Israelis. Alan Dershowitz and Melanie Phillips are two of the most prominent figures sent in to attack anyone who disagrees with the Israeli right. Dershowitz is a lawyer, Harvard professor and author of The Case For Israel. He sees ethnic cleansing as a trifling matter, writing: 'Political solutions often require the movement of people, and such movement is not always voluntary ... It is a fifth-rate issue analogous in many respects to some massive urban renewal.' If a prominent American figure takes a position on Israel to the left of this, Dershowitz often takes to the airwaves to call them anti-Semites and bigots.
- RightHand, on 09/18/2008, -6/+2The settlement of Ariel is one of the largest Israeli settlements in the occupied West Bank. The settlement, dubbed as the capital of Samaria, was established in 1978 on the eve of the signing of the Camp David Peace Treaty between Egypt and Israel. The initial step in the establishment of the settlement was the confiscation of 500 dunums from the village of Marda and the city of Salfit. Today, the built-up area of the settlement is 20,000 dunums confiscated from the villages of Marda, Kufl Haris, Iskaka in addition to the city of Salfit.
  
  Most of the houses in the settlement of Ariel are connected with a sewage network through which all of its wastewater is collected. The collected sewage is then dumped into two areas; Baâ��aten Al Hammam and Wadi Al Beer both located west the city of Salfit after which it forms a stream that reaches Wadi Burqin on its way to the lands of the village of Kufr Al Deek. Damages to Palestinian agricultural land and environment as well as the spread of diseases have resulted from the dumping process.
  http://www.poica.org/editor/case_studies/view.php? ...
- urik88, on 09/18/2008, -1/+4RightHand, 4 long articles and you still fail to explain why the Palestinians don't use their aid money to build a sewage system instead of buying AK-47's.
  - writie, on 09/19/2008, -1/+1Here's a more detail reply from Electronic Intifada:
    
    "During the years before the Oslo Accords of the 1990s, Israel built a few treatment lagoons and plants in the Gaza Strip, though these plants proved to be insufficient as they were smaller than needed, according to the Palestinian Water Authority (PWA).
    
    In 1967 the population of Gaza was 380,000 though now it is nearly 1.5 million, according to the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics. Also, over the years more households were connected to the sewage network.
    
    Development projects to improve the capabilities of the sewage and treatment systems drawn up in the 1990s were hampered by the outbreak of violence in September 2000 and a deteriorating security situation.
    
    In 2005 projects which had been slowed down or put on hold were looked at again, but faced problems following the Hamas election victory in 2006 and the subsequent international boycott of the Palestinian Authority.
    
    Also, the PWA had trouble finding private-sector bidders for tenders it issued due to the security situation.
    
    Hamas's takeover of the enclave last year was met with an Israeli embargo, limiting imports to mostly food and medicines. This has affected the ability of aid groups, including the UN, the ICRC and CARE International, to import equipment like pipes in sufficient quantities on a regular basis.
    
    A US project to improve the plant which serves Gaza City was completed about 10 years ago and the new design was meant to handle some 32,000 cubic meters of sewage, though on the first day of operation it was receiving some 35,000 cubic metres, a number which has since gone up."
    
    "Experts said that in the best case scenario, which would include an immediate about-face on the political front, it would take at least 15 years to have plants up and running which fully treat the Strip's waste water, and many more for a full-fledged hi-tech system."
    
    Sorry about the CnP, but it's not a subject that can be reduced to a one-liner. Note, that I don't see any references to AK-47s. Anything else you want to know?
  - bernk1, on 09/20/2008, -1/+2writie has proviided information from Electronic Intifada: (quoting from his comment) "In 1967 the population of Gaza was 380,000 though now it is nearly 1.5 million, according to the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics." Regardless of any other points that could be made about Israeli treatment, this certainly does not sound like a policy of ethnic cleansing or of genocide.
  - writie, on 09/20/2008, -0/+1Great! You can read. But if you read more carefully, you'll find the article is not even particularly hard on Israel. Someone asked about the sewage issue in Gaza. I gave an answer which is quite factual. If you'd prefer to just have the usual slanging match, let me know. It will save me the time of replying with something worth talking about.
petsheep, on 09/16/2008, -4/+13Hamas battling "dogmush" clan, sounds like a very sad family feud.
- writie, on 09/17/2008, -0/+8If you read the article, you'd learn that this is the clan connected with the kidnapping of the BBC journalist Johnson and, reputedly, Gilad Shalit. They also attacked Christian institutions. They are, in effect, a major thorn in everyone's side - including Israel's.
monsieurginger, on 09/17/2008, -6/+6Doghmush clan? Could it be a long lost Hebrew tribe?
- MarkusGarvey, on 09/17/2008, -4/+7you are a sick individual Michael...you win the ***** comment of the week award...
  - monsieurginger, on 09/17/2008, -2/+3how was my comment offensive?
- RightHand, on 09/17/2008, -5/+119 year old child, going on 13. What should we expect?
  - monsieurginger, on 09/17/2008, -2/+6How did this even get started? You should tend more to your grandkids. Just wondering, since you are so anti-religion, do you give your grandkids Christmas gifts? Or is it not a Christian holiday anymore?
  - bernk1, on 09/17/2008, -2/+3Mons -- you are going on 13? Mazel tov! How's the Haftorah coming? What would you like for a Bar Mitzvah present? A new streimel, some nice tzitzit perhaps? Are you going to give Rig an aliya? Please, let me sit at his table at the reception.
    
    Zei gesunt,
    
    Hersch Lieb Mendel Menachem Reuven Shimon Leyvi Yudah Zvulun Issachar Dan Gad Asher Naftali Yosef Benyamin Groucho Chico Harpo Zeppo Gummo Yitzchak Shmuel Baruch Mottle Tevye Moishe David Amos Vladimir Ilych Boris Karl Pinchas Larry Moe Curly Rivkele Bernkovskachinskovitzbergerblattbaumeineneurenbergerbrattwurstchenbittemeineliebling
  - monsieurginger, on 09/17/2008, -1/+4Everybody is welcomed to my bar mitzvah. Even my Irish grandpa.
  - RightHand, on 09/17/2008, -3/+1@MarkusGarvey
    13 hr 56 min ago
    Dugg by friends: 911ArtStudent, MarkusGarvey, quesi
    "you are a sick individual Michael...you win the ***** comment of the week award.."
    
    List your contributions but not as an attack mongrel of the Zionist. Real contributions. Have you expressed one comment that wasn't a bigoted attack? Have you any opinions of your own? Better check with your master before answering.
    
    The way you both appear together indicates a VERY close relationship with the blackmailing sleeveen. One explanation is that you are the same person - BAD and BADEST, which off course explains the multi-personality of the sleeveen blackmailer and how I was taken in by one of them.
  - bernk1, on 09/17/2008, -2/+5RightHand - where did you learn this stuff, at the Friends of Oswald Mosley meetings? I am sure that my other half will be checking in with you soon. Rob, give it a rest. Take up a hobby such as golf.
    
    Hersch
  - monsieurginger, on 09/17/2008, -1/+3Grandpa, look at my favorites and submitted articles. Those are some of my views and articles that express my opinions, though not necessarily.
    
    Since most of what we talk about is Israel, in the sphere of Israeli politics, I consider myself a left-wing/liberal Labor. In American politics I'm a liberal Democrat.
    
    When I was young living on the kibbutz, I believed that Israelis and Palestinians could live together. The lion and the lamb sleeping together. But then Hamas got elected, and then I read the Hamas charter. I'm still a left wing liberal but two states is the only solution.
    
    and Hersch isn't I, or I am not him
  - RightHand, on 09/18/2008, -2/+3Dugg by friends: 911ArtStudent, MarkusGarvey, quesi
    "you are a sick individual Michael...you win the ***** comment of the week award.."
- RightHand, on 09/17/2008, -5/+1The child contributes nothing except childish snide remarks with the encouragement of his mentor, the sleeveen, blackmailer, eunuch, itself not much more mature than the child.
  
  Now child, there's a challenge. 6 submitted in a year and a bit. Any worthwhile contribution other than as the sleeveen's 'boy'.
  
  "Born on a secular kibbutz in Israel. Now living in USA. Mechanical Engineering major. Dad born in the US, mom born in Tunisia. I'm a citizen of Israel, France, and the United States. Interested in many things but don't have the time for everything."
  
  If dad born in US makes him American, does mum born in Tunisia make him French? Secular kibbutz? Does he believe?
  
  http://clipmarks.com/clipmark/358C93E7-62AB-4814-B ...
  
  @*****
  "do you give your grandkids Christmas gifts? Or is it not a Christian holiday anymore?"
  I was born on Christmas Day. Keep up with the class. You are giving 'Jews' a really bad name, dunce.
  - monsieurginger, on 09/17/2008, -2/+6"contributes nothing"
    ... and what have you contributed? The number of stories one submits does not equal someone's level of contribution. I submitted quality articles. You guys are one of my hobbies... you know ... making fun of your(not your's individually, but those including 911ArtStudent and friends) worldview.
    
    "does mum born in Tunisia make him French?"
    My mom and her parent didn't have french citizenship till they moved to France. Why wouldn't the Tunisians give my family Tunisian citizenship? Hmmmm... I wonder why.
    
    "Secular kibbutz? Does he believe?"
    What's the question? Believe what?
    
    It's kinda creepy how you have my profile on clipmarks.
    
    "Keep up with the class"
    I was just wondering. You didn't even answer the question.
  - bernk1, on 09/17/2008, -1/+6RightHand -
    
    If only ...
    (1) you could make a point without reverting to name-calling (i.e., sleeveen, *****, *****, child)
    (2) you stopped harping on irrelevant points that have nothing to do with the article at hand but are thrown in to show what an "anti-Zionist" you are
    (3) you stopped mocking people for their religion
    (4) you directly answered questions without going off on tangents
    (5) you stopped harping on people's "blood"/ethnicity/race to the extent that you said that Arabs, Scots and Welsh were separate races
    (6) you realized that the content of a man's character was more important than race/ethnicity
    (7) you stopped relying on the Israeli press to prove your point that Israel was a dictatorship
    (8) you stopped saying that Jews that don't meet your standards aren't "good Jews"
    (9) you stopped defining what groups that you are not a member of thing (i.e., Arab women)
    (10) you stopped making fun of "18th century garb" and "Bin Laden-type beards"
    (11) you stopped referring to Jewish women as "Jewesses" and then saying that you do it to express your respect for those that have to bear the "burden" of giving birth to Jews
    (12) you stopped your claim to "mutual friends" to people who have repeatedly asked you to get out of their friends/fan list
    (13) you stopped making remarks about "circumcised penises" and "eunuchs" and "third types" and on and on and on
    (14) you stopped making things up about blackmail attempts
    (15) you stopped using "blunderbuss attacks" on people, lumping individuals in with groups
    (16) you stopped ridiculous things like citing Amy Winehouse to show how bigoted Jews are
    (17) you stopped talking about "the dark side", the conspirators, dual- or triple-loyalty, the Mossad, etc.
    and on and on and on in a similar vein,
    
    perhaps people would take you seriously.
    
    Now, once again, Rob: answer these questions:
    
    (1) Other than Israel, how many other countries in that region have such hallmarks of a civil society as: 1) free trade union movements; 2) democratic elections with opposition parties that sit in the parliament; 3) freedom of speech; 4) religious freedom; 5) women that can vote (in Saudi Arabia, they can't even drive cars); 6) a gay rights movement (in the Gaza Strip, homosexuals are routinely tortured -- one of the big population movements in the Palestine Authority are homosexuals sneaking into Israel where they have much more freedom); etc.?
    
    (2) Can you name two countries/societies in the entire Middle East that you would like Israel to more closely resemble?
    
    (3) Is the Hebrew Bible (aka “Old Testament”) is THE terrorist book on which the Muslim and Christian faiths sprung?
    
    Perhaps the reason that people consider you an anti-Semitic, ridiculous laughing stock and the butt of jokes is that it is hard to view you otherwise based on what you, yourself have written and said.
    
    It is almost impossible to have a coherent, intelligent dialogue with you, and this has nothing to do with any disabilities. It is because you are blinded by your hate of things that you have absolutely no understanding of and your disregard that blood is shed by the things that you advocate. Looking at some of the stuff you write is like looking into a toilet that hasn't been flushed.
    
    Have a nice day, you deserve it
    
    Hersch
  - bernk1, on 09/17/2008, -1/+3RightHand -
    
    to clarify
    
    If only ...
    
    (9) you stopped defining what groups that you are not a member of thing (i.e., Arab women) think or would prefer or like
    
    (12) you stopped your claim to be "mutual friends" to people who have repeatedly asked you to get out of their friends/fan list
    
    Hersch
mashimka, on 09/17/2008, -5/+5How many times do you think the words "sharmuta" and "cusemec" were uttered during this exchange? Probably more of the former than the latter. It's less a crime to kill a fellow member of the brotherhood than utter the C-word.

Just things I think about. Like how many people are having sex right now. Give me 5 minutes and at a 1 to it.
- MarkusGarvey, on 09/17/2008, -5/+5i didn't expect you to accept my friend request chouch since you are a coward and have a closed mind and apparently not too bright...but i fan people like you to to help me understand what makes your type so ignorant and hateful...pseudo Rasta beliefs?...revisionist view of history?...who the ***** are you to judge my beliefs?...i don't lie and if you can prove me wrong i will admit it...i don't profess to know everything and never have, but i do know right from wrong, good from evil...i have been on my own since i was 13 and didn't even know i was Jewish until i was in my late 30's and was probably the reason i was attracted to Rastafarian-ism when i was younger since it is so similar to Judaism...i have sat with the Lakotas in peyote meetings and have the honor of being fireman... i have had the honor of sitting with high Rasta elders in Nyabingi (Skelly and Ras Menelik gave me my nickname)...stick that in your pipe and smoke it troll...
  - mashimka, on 09/17/2008, -3/+5Just goes to show you that people will digg you up no matter what you type in this box. Yes, I'm a coward for not wanting to rub shoulders with a moonbat neo-nazi who gives us liberals a bad name. amazing insight.
    
    So, you, the "radical liberal" and the person who "despises zionists" accuse me of hatred? You won't impress me with your exploits.
    
    So you've smoked pot with a few dreads. Wow. I've lived in the middle east for the past two years watching conspiracy theorist troofer nuts like yourself criticize policy from afar. I don't know how many suppers I've spent on the floor of some bedouin family's living room eating rice out of a bowl with grandpa wondering "why can't everybody be as accepting as these folks? They even speak hebrew"
    
    congratulations. you are the first self-hating Jew ever to live. Maybe we should switch spots? you like catholocism there pseudo-hippy? It's like a skinhead that smells of B.O. and patchouli oil haha.
- mashimka, on 09/17/2008, -3/+6and btw, i've met actual neo-nazis before and enjoyed picking their brains.
  
  you.. you lack anything to pick.
- RightHand, on 09/17/2008, -5/+1Case No.37 The Assassination of Abraham Wilenchik on February 25, 1943 by Lehi in Herzelia
  
  He was one of Lehi's first members, and one of two arrested the the British (after Lehi robbed Bank APAK) He spent 26 months in British detention camp in Latrun and released in Feb of 1943. (Niv, vol. 3:196) ... Okev Resnik and S.T.H. all agree that his assassination's main function was to give a new final and frightening meaning to Lehi's slogan that "only death would release from the organization" and that members who thought about defection should think twice. A somewhat similar case would happen again in 1947 (see case no.75)
  
  Political Assassinations by Jews
  By Nachman Ben-Yehuda
  - bernk1, on 09/17/2008, -1/+4What does this have to do with the article or any of the comments in this thread?
  - mashimka, on 09/17/2008, -3/+2If anything, this makes me like Jews more. They are badass!
  - RightHand, on 09/18/2008, -4/+1Blackmailer, the main item was about infighting between Arabs.
    
    My point is the Zionist assassinated the Zionist, Wilenchik for no better reason than to make an example of him. He'd been a prime member of a Zionist terrorist gang who served time in a British prison as a criminal. Zionists reported that he said he would not continue as a killer in the terrorist gang when he left jail. He was gunned down in his own home in front of his wife and child!!! Remember, Lehi's slogan was that "only death would release from the organization". Get it?
    
    No effort to ascertain the truth of the story was made. Truth had little part of their thinking. Familiar? He was gunned down in his own home in front of his wife and child!!! Even a Zionist killer didn't deserve this.
    
    If you cannot see the connection they I'll need to make additions to my list of characteristics of you
  - mashimka, on 09/18/2008, -2/+2So... what you are saying is its WRONG for the Jews to fight a British occupation but RIGHT for the Palestinians to wage guerrilla warfare against them and their families.
    
    Gotcha. I see the relevance to the topic and the double standard clearly now. Thanks!
  - bernk1, on 09/18/2008, -2/+3RIghtHand - Sorry, but I could not see the connection. I await the promised additions to your list of characteristics of myself. Please teach me some new Irish slang. I'll see if I can give you some lessons in Yiddish or Hebrew or maybe even German. Spanish perhaps?
    
    Hey, what about that Tzippi Livni, hot stuff, huh? Oooh, la la!
    
    Nighty night. Sleep tight.
    
    Hersch Lieb Mendel Menachem Reuven Shimon Leyvi Yudah Zvulun Issachar Dan Gad Asher Naftali Yosef Benyamin Groucho Chico Harpo Zeppo Gummo Yitzchak Shmuel Baruch Mottle Tevye Moishe David Amos Vladimir Ilych Boris Karl Pinchas Larry Moe Curly Rivkele Bernkovskachinskovitzbergerblattbaumeineneurenbergerbrattwurstchenbittemeineliebling
  - monsieurginger, on 09/18/2008, -2/+2Maze po?!?!
  - mashimka, on 09/18/2008, -1/+2What is it here?
    
    LOL you are a Jew and my Hebrew is probably waaay better than yours.
  - bernk1, on 09/18/2008, -1/+3I cannot follow this at all. It is hard to untangle the web of "Zionist" here. I think it would be helpful if you labelled them with numbers of letters of names. Come on, can you follow this: "... the Zionist assassinated the Zionist, Wilenchik.... He'd been a prime member of a Zionist terrorist gang.... Zionists reported that he said he would not continue as a killer in the terrorist gang..." I mean, which Zionist assassnated Wilenchik? What Zionist terrorist gang (I mean, you would have us believe there were lots of them)? Which Zionists reported what he would do?
    
    I never knew that about Lehi's slogan. Are you sure you aren't confusing Lechi with HaIrgun?
    
    And what is this about your referral to Case No. 75? I mean, this is only Case No. 37 -- where are the other 38?
  - RightHand, on 09/18/2008, -3/+3Again, R E A D C A R E F U L L Y
    
    My point is the Zionist assassinated the Zionist, Wilenchik for no better reason than to make an example of him.
    He'd been a prime member of a Zionist terrorist gang who served time in a British prison as a criminal.
    Zionists reported that he said he would not continue as a killer in the terrorist gang when he left jail. He was gunned down in his own home in front of his wife and child!!! Remember, Lehi's slogan was that "only death would release from the organization". Get it?
    
    No effort to ascertain the truth of the story was made. Truth had little part of their thinking. Familiar? He was gunned down in his own home in front of his wife and child!!! Even a Zionist killer didn't deserve this.
    
    If you cannot see the connection they I'll need to make additions to my list of characteristics of you
    
    W H A T W O R D S D O N ' T U N D E R S T A N D
    
    Do you always hunt in packs? I see the master is minding the child, as usual.
  - bernk1, on 09/18/2008, -1/+3RightHand - please, I am trying to understand and follow you. I have "R E A D C A R E F U L L Y" -- "W H A T W O R D S D O N ' T U N D E R S T A N D" doesn't apply here. I understand all the words but I don't understand your meaning. You are being way too vague. I'm sorry, but I have been taught to leave no ambiguities in order to communicate and to understand.
    
    Please explain without vague generalities. Please be specific. No trickery here on my part, I want to know the facts.
    
    (1) "... the Zionist assassinated the Zionist, Wilenchik...." Which Zionist assassinated him. What is his name?
    
    (2) "He'd been a prime member of a Zionist terrorist gang...." What does "prime member" mean? Chairman, regional chairman, vice-chairman. Sorry, but "prime member" doesn't pass muster. And what is the name of that terrorist gang? I mean, weren't there a lot of them?
    
    (3) "Zionists reported that he said he would not continue as a killer in the terrorist gang..." Which Zionists reported this? Names, please.
    
    Rob, let's be fair now. Seriously, would you accept this charge if I made it: "The Episcopalian assassinated the Zionist, Wilenchik.... He'd been a prime member of a Episcopalian terrorist gang.... Episcopalians reported that he said he would not continue as a killer in the terrorist gang..." [DISCLAIMER: This is in no way a condemnation of Episcopalians. I know many Episcopalians and they are fine people. The use of the term "Episcopalian" was only used as an example.]
  - bernk1, on 09/18/2008, -1/+3RightHand - sorry to have been so short a few minutes ago. I had to interrupt my communication with you to deal with a small emergency. But all is over and all is well.
    
    Look, the key to communication is precision. That way we are speaking the same language and can understand one another. Actually, I said what had to be said, but just keep in mind that it is important to stop the blunderbuss attacks and hone in on the details. I think that you will find that we have quite a few more areas of agreement than areas of disagreement. Perhaps a bit more civility is in order -- maybe on both sides?
    
    And as to "the child" -- I don't control him. You know the old song, "Kids, what's the matter with kids today."
    
    Cheers.
  - monsieurginger, on 09/18/2008, -1/+3mashi, haevrit shelcha lo yoter tov mimeni. naladiti be israel. lech lehizdayen... I mean that in a good way... go have sexy time.
  - RightHand, on 09/18/2008, -3/+1Political Assassinations by Jews: A Rhetorical Device for Justice
    By Nachman Ben-Yehuda
    Published by SUNY Press, 1993
    ISBN 0791411656, 9780791411650
    527 pages
    http://books.google.ie/books?id=19ZMulluIgkC
    
    Case No.37 The Assassination of Abraham Wilenchik on February 25, 1943 by Lehi in Herzelia
    
    He was one of Lehi's first members, and one of two arrested the the British (after Lehi robbed Bank APAK [Anglo Palestine Bank] in 1940)) He spent 26 months in British detention camp in Latrun and released in Feb of 1943. (Niv, vol. 3:196) Wilenchik apparently took a neutral position and may have to leave Lehi for his release (Resnik 1986:179). Niv (vol. 3:196) and Resnik (1986:179) indicate that Wilenchik was accused of being a traitor and a squealer. Okev (1949:9-10)presents a somewhat different interpretation. According to Okev, while still in Latrun Wilenchik told people he wanted to leave Lehi and return to Etzel and said that other Lehi's members wanted to follow the same route'
    On Thursday, February 25, 1943, a few days after Wilenchik was released from Latrum, at 4.15 P.M., a Lehi member came to
    
    178 Political Assassinations by Jews
    
    Wilenchik's home in Herzelia (north of Tel Aviv) and asked for Abraham. When Abraham got out he was shot three times and died immediately. He was 26 years old when he was assassinated and left a wife and a daughter. Although an inner Etzel's bulletin dated March 12, 1943, denied that Wilenchik squealed (Okev 1949:9) - this became a side issue. Okev (1949:10), Resnik (1986:179), and S.T.H. (vol. 3, part 1:506) all agree that Wilenchik's assassination's main function was to give a new final and frightening meaning to Lehi's slogan that "only death would release from the organization" and that members who thought about defection should think twice. A somewhat similar case would happen again in 1947 (see case no.75)
    
    Terror Out of Zion: The Fight for Israeli Independence
    By J. Bowyer Bell, Moshe Arens
    Contributor J. Bowyer Bell, Moshe Arens
    Published by Transaction Publishers, 1996
    ISBN 1560008709, 9781560008705
    374 pages
    
    Israel's Secret Wars: A History of Israel's Intelligence Services
    by Ian Black, Benny Morris
    A comprehensive history of all three of Israel's intelligence services, from their origins in the 1930s to the present, chronicles the mistakes and the triumphs of their three spy services
    
    righthand
    One motto: Once bitten, twice shy. When dealing with the rat pack, this makes even more sense. Eventually if multi-personality sorts out which one is dominant, and when ""Kids, what's the matter with kids today" isn't joined at the hip, then maybe civility could return.
  - bernk1, on 09/18/2008, -1/+3RightHand - thanks for the clarification on Case No. 37.
    
    What are these, citations? If so, can you refer to what work, and what volume. This is SO confusing: Niv, vol. 3:196 Resnik 1986:179 Okev (1949:9-10) / (Okev 1949:9) / Okev (1949:10) S.T.H. (vol. 3, part 1:506). How can one look these things up without your naming the book. Also, how can one research "S.T.H."?
    
    So, in other words, this may be a case of an underground pseudo-army executing what they perceived to be a traitor in the time of war (such as the underground struggle against the British). That's what Resnik and Niv seem to say, though Okev differs. Do any of these works refer to any internal court-martial proceedings and Lehi's courts-martial procedures?
    
    I do not understand: "Wilenchik apparently took a neutral position and may have to leave Lehi for his release."
    
    With what branch of Lechi was Wilenchik aligned? Was it the "right wing" of Lechi, or the "left wing"? And if it was the "left wing," was it that faction which sought the establishment of a dictatorship of the proletariat? Could this have been a faction fight?
    
    Again you refer to case no. 75. How can I refer to it? I have yet to see cases no. 39-74. Should these cases be read sequentially?
    
    Are you saying that "Once bitten, twice shy" is a Lechi motto?
    
    Once again, Rob, thanks for the clarification on Case No. 37.
    
    Hersch Lieb, etc.
  - RightHand, on 09/18/2008, -3/+1
    
    Political Assassinations by Jews: A Rhetorical Device for Justice
    http://books.google.ie/books?id=19ZMulluIgkC
    
    Case No.37 The Assassination of Abraham Wilenchik on February 25, 1943 by Lehi in Herzelia
    
    Case No,47 Seven Assassination Attempts against Sir Harold MacMichael, mostly by Lehi
    
    Case No.50 The Assassination of Joseph Davidesku on August 20.1945 by Lehi
    
    Case No.51 The Assassination Attempts on Ernest Bevin's Life in 1945-1948 by Lehi - Preplanned, Planned, and Unsuccessful.
    
    Once bitten, twice shy.
    "something that you say which means when you have had an unpleasant experience you are much more careful to avoid similar experiences in the future."
    http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/Once+bitten,+t ...
    Very unpleasant experience in dealing with King Rat of the rat pack.
  - bernk1, on 09/18/2008, -1/+3RightHand -- So just where can someone see these cases?
    
    "King Rat" - good book by James Clavell, I believe. It was a good movie too, with George Segal.
    
    By-the-by (or, as we members of "the rat pack" would say, derech agav) - who was it that said something like, "A child would lead them." Was that Yeshua ben-Yosef? I'm not sure.
  - RightHand, on 09/18/2008, -3/+1FOR THIRD TIME here
    
    Political Assassinations by Jews: A Rhetorical Device for Justice
    http://books.google.ie/books?id=19ZMulluIgkC
    
    Google BOOKS!!!
  - bernk1, on 09/18/2008, -1/+3Oh. Now I see. These cases are from the book. You really never said that. You had led me to believe that these were YOUR assassination files. You read that?
  - mashimka, on 09/19/2008, -2/+2haha, i got "sorry, there's no good... something.. Go suck a dick" LMAO
    
    And, I think that's not "prime member" of a gang, it's "prime number." Duh.
  - bernk1, on 09/19/2008, -1/+1mashimka - vus is dus mit deine: "haha, i got "sorry, there's no good... something.. Go suck a *@#*" "And, I think that's not "prime member" of a gang, it's "prime number." Duh."
MarkusGarvey, on 09/17/2008, -6/+11this is very sad news...but what do you expect in a prison camp filled with angry oppressed people who have no hope for a normal life...just like in prison or politics, the most ruthless self serving individuals are the ones who end up running the show...it's good to be King...just like in the ghettos here in the U.S. ...oppression ,desperation and poverty will discourage any cohesiveness and eventually lead to a cycle of self destruction..im sure that you Zionist's hope Palestine will turn into another Rwanda....divide and conquer...what i don't understand is that Foo emphasizes in his description of this sub "where's the indignation? where's the clamoring? the accusations of genocide?"...you guys can always justify innocents murder if the IOF is involved..talk about double standard...you guys have no shame...just an agenda...
- zolthar, on 09/17/2008, -6/+10short summary:
  blah blah blah, use the usual slogans to put the blame on Israel, what really goes on there is irrelevant, blah blah.
  - mashimka, on 09/18/2008, -3/+2Israeli Offense Force.. haha. It's Israeli Occupation Force you goof
    
    G-d, I know more about their cause than them!
- bernk1, on 09/17/2008, -2/+5Markus - I am unfamiliar with the term IOF. Please explain
  - quarkie, on 09/17/2008, -5/+6Israel Offense Force, rather than Israel Defence Force.
    Basically he's blaming Israel for the violence, because when ever anything goes bad in the middle east its Israel's fault.
  - monsieurginger, on 09/17/2008, -5/+8It's always Israel's fault. Didn't you know? When scores of Lebanese die because of infighting, it's Israel's fault. When an American embassy blows up in Yemen, it's Israel's fault. When Fatah and Hamas fight for who know's what, it's Israel's fault. The Illuminati is responsible for all the world's wars.
  - bernk1, on 09/17/2008, -1/+4quarkie - Thanks for the explation. That's probably it.
  - urik88, on 09/18/2008, -1/+4And obviously, Israel is the one to blame for the Illuminatis.
- mashimka, on 09/17/2008, -3/+5Prison? With 70 kilometers of Mediterranean beach? Sign me up yo! Jah, Rastafarite!
- urik88, on 09/18/2008, -2/+2A good one Markus.
  Palestinians kill each other, Israel is the one to blame.
  When a prison mate kills another one, are the guards the ones to blame? That's some interesting logic Markus.
  
  I also don't really recall the Jews in the ghettos killing each other, or the Chinese under the Japanese occupation killing each other, or the Tibetans killing each other under the Chinese occupation.
  And what? Israel is not occupying Gaza? You've got to be kidding me.
monsieurginger, on 09/17/2008, -7/+6since Gaza is a prison, this must be just some gang fight. It's all about respect here. They are also fighting about who gets the prison basketball court and who gets the benches and weights.
- mashimka, on 09/17/2008, -4/+3i almost spit my chives and cottage cheese on the screen, haha
RightHand, on 09/17/2008, -6/+7Campaign: End Israeli Assassination Policy Now!
http://www.pflp.ps/english/?q=campaign-end-israeli ...
From the earliest days of the Zionist project, assassination has always been a mechanism both for depriving the Palestinian people of their leaders and activists, and sending a message to future potential leaders and activists that the path of resistance leads to assassination, and for promoting concessions and collaboration with Zionism as an alternative. Israel has sought to present three alternatives to Palestinians: assassination, imprisonment, or concessions. Much as Israel relies heavily on its over $3 billion in annual support from the US, and much as the US relies on its strategic alliance with the Zionist colonial-settler state in order to extend its influence and present a constant and ever-present threat and settler presence against the Arab nation, Israeli assassinations are financed and armed by the US. Increasingly, the Israeli assassination policy has relied on US-made missiles shot from US-made helicopters in the sky in order to carry out its deadly policy,.

Standard practice for Zionist to hire tugs to do its dirty work.
- mashimka, on 09/18/2008, -1/+3Yes, end the occupation of British Mandate Palestine.. by stabbing 9 year olds, sniping babies out of their prams, strapping bombs to ourselves and entering the souq and commandeering bulldozers to bumbrush mid-day traffic and ambush people sitting in their vehicles. makes sense...
  
  just like the Jews did when they were occupied by the Birtish, but righthand clearly doesn't think it RIGHT for them to have resisted.
militarycoup, on 09/17/2008, -2/+2Because of the long drawn out nature and usage of the poors religion as a lever by both sides in this ongoing feud,i would guese that the high up people on either side are best of friends in this money making conflict and the victims are the people of either side that actually follow their words.
The poor and manipulated die,while the rich,that become richer because of the money raising conflict become richer because of the fighting and death.
Fangsinmybeard, on 09/17/2008, -6/+3This is what Israel wants. Unemployed Gazans slaughtering each other in the streets. Talk about an insidious, ruthless policy towards Palestinians.
- monsieurginger, on 09/17/2008, -2/+6I was waiting till someone was gonna blame Israel for this.
- mashimka, on 09/18/2008, -1/+3lol @ fang
monsieurginger, on 09/18/2008, -2/+2Hey bernk1 Hersch, I can't send shouts to you. It says that they are private or something.
- bernk1, on 09/18/2008, -2/+2Sorry, the antennae on my kippa had to be re-adjusted. I was picking up static. All is well now.
  - monsieurginger, on 09/18/2008, -2/+3You got to stop creating so many hurricanes. It messes up with my telecommunication and media monopoly.
  - bernk1, on 09/18/2008, -3/+3Well, as soon as I get some of those bunker-busters strapped on to the Kfirs, you'll really see some messed up telecommunications. You'll plotz! Let's pray to the big G that the paper money doesn't get incinerated.
  - mashimka, on 09/18/2008, -2/+3I loled.
    
    megaphone or mega-beanie?
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