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Germany moves to ban Scientology
cnn.com — BERLIN, Germany (AP) -- Germany's top security officials said Friday they consider the goals of Church of Scientology to be in conflict with the principles of the nation's constitution and will seek to ban the organization.
GQCarrick- 4085 diggs
- digg it
- Kizilbash, on 12/08/2007, -21/+840It's not a church, it's a pyramid scheme.
- Bonobo, on 12/08/2007, -7/+247cult.
- TeacherOfHeroes, on 12/08/2007, -9/+36cults are usually selective about who they let in and who they don't
Scientology isn't a cult, its just a fraud.- Rickler, on 12/08/2007, -2/+28cult
1.
a. A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
b. The followers of such a religion or sect.- gllopc, on 12/08/2007, -3/+151. Check.
2. Check.
Yup - it's a cult. - cfuse, on 12/09/2007, -1/+8fraud
1. deceit, trickery, sharp practice, or breach of confidence, perpetrated for profit or to gain some unfair or dishonest advantage.
2. a particular instance of such deceit or trickery: mail fraud; election frauds.
3. any deception, trickery, or humbug: That diet book is a fraud and a waste of time.
4. a person who makes deceitful pretenses; sham; poseur. - renegadeafk, on 12/09/2007, -0/+10it's a cult-fraud
- gllopc, on 12/08/2007, -3/+151. Check.
- TeacherOfHeroes, on 12/08/2007, -18/+12They're not living in an unconventional manner, really, The followers of Jim Jones in Guyana were living in an unconventional manner (kinda 3rd world-ish). Scientology's charismatic leader is long dead, and yet the religion has persisted - because the focus isn't on LRH, but on 'auditing'. Additionally, cults don't usually interact with the outside world nearly as much as scientology does.
The anti-cult movement has had a good deal of success in muddying the waters as to what a cult is and what the word 'cult' means. I'm not sure where you got that definition from, so I can't comment as to its legitimacy aside from saying that it seems lacking.
Christianity started out as a cult, too, you know. At some point a movement gains enough of a following or enough of a presense that it stops being considered a cult. Christianity transitioned to a sect and then a religion. As much as I dislike scientology, it isn't really a cult anymore.- supermanred, on 12/08/2007, -4/+30L Ron Hubbard was a Science Fiction writer who bilked a lot of people out of money and left behind the ultimate joke of a legacy, a religion he pulled out of his ass with a ridiculous Science Fiction story he wrote as its' basis.
Get real, son. - TeacherOfHeroes, on 12/08/2007, -8/+12I know where scientology comes from, and I know that it is a sham. I don't consider the origins of christianity any more lofty or likely, yet I consider it a religion. Why is there this assumption that if something is a religion and not a cult, that it somehow becomes more deserving of respect?
- Septimus, on 12/08/2007, -5/+17How is it different from any other religion? They are all human made up *****.
- chaosium, on 12/09/2007, -3/+3"I know where scientology comes from, and I know that it is a sham. I don't consider the origins of christianity any more lofty or likely, yet I consider it a religion. Why is there this assumption that if something is a religion and not a cult, that it somehow becomes more deserving of respect?"
You know where it COMES from, but you don't seem to know anything about its operation. Check xenu.net or lermanet.com for stories from people who were able to leave.
- supermanred, on 12/08/2007, -4/+30L Ron Hubbard was a Science Fiction writer who bilked a lot of people out of money and left behind the ultimate joke of a legacy, a religion he pulled out of his ass with a ridiculous Science Fiction story he wrote as its' basis.
- chaosium, on 12/09/2007, -1/+4"cults are usually selective about who they let in and who they don't"
Cults prohibit their members from leaving, they "accept all" who are willing to convert their lives over to service.
- Rickler, on 12/08/2007, -2/+28cult
- Pulpfiction23, on 12/09/2007, -9/+3I don't see why everyone is hating on Scientology so much. I'll agree, it is absurd and downright ridiculous but if people are stupid enough to push money into it, it has a right to exist. The only reason people don't say the same ***** about christianity is because so many people are a part of it. All religions are bound to have errors and contradict themselves. This one is just really obvious in its doings.
Evangelicals(spammers) Catholics(the pope looks like the emperor from star wars) Lutherans(We're different! we rebelled!) Scientologists(the sci-fi breed of believers) . Everyone wants to be comforted in some way, like I say if they are dumb enough don't let them be, I hate cliches but ignorance is bliss, our president looks happy. He's a mormon I think?- dbs1221, on 12/09/2007, -0/+1The difference is the church stopped charging people for salvation a long time ago, if they still did then it would be right for Germany to outlaw it as a legal religion as well,
- Btzarro, on 12/09/2007, -0/+2Religion.
- TeacherOfHeroes, on 12/08/2007, -9/+36cults are usually selective about who they let in and who they don't
- rhabd0mancer, on 12/08/2007, -80/+108All churches are pyramid schemes.
- Salgat, on 12/08/2007, -14/+92Thats not a fair thing to say. Unfortunately some religions are all balled up into one group, even though some, like my church, do amazing things for the community (like sponsoring hundreds of kids who have a parent in prison by giving presents to them).
- capiCrimm, on 12/08/2007, -62/+11perhaps those children would have parents if religions didn't try to force moral crimes on the government and outcast anyone they don't like?
- xsuite, on 12/08/2007, -9/+53Good point. I think we should send all religious people to concentration camps because their needless and stupid fairy tales are ruining the world!
***** grow up. Remember that when hitler started out he was blaming all of germany's problems on Jews, much like you are blaming all of the worlds problems on religion. - ngnboone, on 12/08/2007, -8/+7Meh, Hitler did lots of things. You can bring up Hitler's name in an argument for or against nearly anything if you try hard enough.
- zazzalicious, on 12/09/2007, -5/+13Godwin's law, you lose.
- capiCrimm, on 12/09/2007, -2/+2well you took my comment out of context xsuite. I didn't say send religious people to concentration camps, I'm all for ignoring them. I can't ignore them, however, when the start passing laws. For example, if I want to pay for sex why shouldn't I. Prostitution in Nevada has an *extremely* low rate of STDs, then look at the streets where it's illegal. It makes no sense beyond people forcing morals into the laws. Why should the government tear apart a family because one of the parents smoked some pot? If there is food on the table and there is no abuse it shouldn't be a problem. Just because a law doesn't have "Praize JEEBUS!!!!" in every fifth line doesn't mean it wasn't pushed as a proxy for religion.
Religion does good things too, but it's not some universal truth that everyone should follow.
- xsuite, on 12/08/2007, -9/+53Good point. I think we should send all religious people to concentration camps because their needless and stupid fairy tales are ruining the world!
- rhabd0mancer, on 12/08/2007, -38/+6I'm sure your church elders are receiving some nice "presents" as well.
- AnthonyA7, on 12/08/2007, -9/+13You have no clue what you're talking about. Every Catholic priest I know lives in either a tiny house on the church grounds or in a little apartment in a church-owned building.
- baldgye, on 12/08/2007, -15/+2well, if not the elders then, definitely the quire boys
- moofer, on 12/08/2007, -14/+4@AnthonyA7 - (he doesn't have a reply button)
Do those little apartments have enough room for all the little boys? - dbs1221, on 12/09/2007, -0/+2Also for Anthony (forgive him for not getting the "presents" thing, he's not as skeptical or perverted as the rest of us)
check in with a cardinal or arch bishop,
if you don't think the catholic church has money think again, they are the largest land owner on in Manhattan and for the last millennium have been one of the wealthiest institutions in the world.
- Kishoba, on 12/08/2007, -2/+21That is true, however it doesn't require a church, religion, etc... to do good things for the community.
- sarge96, on 12/09/2007, -8/+3and sponsoring hundreds of child molesting, rich bishops by giving them kids who don't know any better and money from parents who also don't know any better.
- blindhammer, on 12/09/2007, -1/+5...which is my problem with Western religion. Many Christians do Good Things only because there is a reward for them: eternity in heaven. You remove any altruistic motives when you superimpose eternal salvation or damnation.
As someone else mentioned, you do not need to be religious to do Good Things for people. In fact, those that do, are theoretically morally superior that people that do Good Things because they are told or because they will reap a reward from it. - Syntaxis, on 12/09/2007, -0/+1If you don't do what your god tells you to, you will burn in hell for all eternity.
But god loves you. - kuzotz, on 12/12/2007, -0/+1@Kishoba but it is traditionally done by the local church in a given area. My church did soup kitchens for the homeless. Point being said if we didn't have religions that taught people to be universally good then things would be much worse for the less fortunate.
Plus its human nature to exploi
t. So there are churches out there that exploit, but there are churches out there that provide, and helps the community in which it resides in. ...
I mean obviously governments tend to become corrupt. SO we should abolished them all?
There is no logic to it.
There is nothing wrong with being atheist, but I'm tired of you diggers insulting people that follow certain religions. Hell if we had it your way people that weren't atheist would be killed. That's what the USSR did.
So don't give me that ***** that religion is the root of all evil.
- capiCrimm, on 12/08/2007, -62/+11perhaps those children would have parents if religions didn't try to force moral crimes on the government and outcast anyone they don't like?
- aristotle0dude, on 12/09/2007, -0/+2That's unfair. It would be like saying that all diggers were inbred retards when it clearly only applies to you.
- Salgat, on 12/08/2007, -14/+92Thats not a fair thing to say. Unfortunately some religions are all balled up into one group, even though some, like my church, do amazing things for the community (like sponsoring hundreds of kids who have a parent in prison by giving presents to them).
- Magicmasta, on 12/08/2007, -17/+11aren't they synonyms?
- baldgye, on 12/08/2007, -15/+1haha
- Lukesed, on 12/08/2007, -3/+84A pyramid scheme is when you believe that one day you will get more money back than you invested by getting more people to invest into you. Scientologists are just giving the money to the leaders with no expectations whatsoever.
- Sornos, on 12/08/2007, -3/+37Replace money with happiness and you're good to go. All religions have a happy afterlife as a promise. But only if you invest in this life first.
- cquinnd, on 12/08/2007, -2/+11Actually some religions propose happiness in this life, if you invest in this life first. But the majority of organized religions try to provide "guidance" for your investment as well.
- sarge96, on 12/09/2007, -1/+3They'll guide your donations right into their collection bins....
- kuzotz, on 12/12/2007, -0/+1In which will be used to pa the electric bills, and help out with the children's tutoring programs, and other activities that churches do.
Of course if you are talking about mega churches then that's a whole another story.
MY church has a breakfast program that was started by a former Black Panther party member before they dissolved and the Nation of Islam took control of the New Black Panther Party.
- killerofkiller, on 12/09/2007, -0/+10If you want eternal happiness, send 1 dollar to Happy Dude 742 Evergreen Terrace.....
- cquinnd, on 12/08/2007, -2/+11Actually some religions propose happiness in this life, if you invest in this life first. But the majority of organized religions try to provide "guidance" for your investment as well.
- dusanmal, on 12/08/2007, -1/+25To the best of my knowledge Scientologists require money for your "spiritual advancement". You "officially" can't get to the "higher level" if you do not provide certain amount of money. That is the difference making them a cult (more common religions also ask for money but do not say your path to the "higher level" is blocked if you don't give, small but important difference).
- evilbert420, on 12/08/2007, -6/+14My brother was denied access to his daughter's wedding ceremony in their Mormon temple because he wasn't "current" with his tithing that particular year. I guess the Mormons are a cult too, and we now have a cultist running for president.
- rususeruru, on 12/08/2007, -2/+7Yes (comes from someone who once lived in close proximity to Utah) they are.
- evilbert420, on 12/08/2007, -6/+14My brother was denied access to his daughter's wedding ceremony in their Mormon temple because he wasn't "current" with his tithing that particular year. I guess the Mormons are a cult too, and we now have a cultist running for president.
- Sornos, on 12/08/2007, -3/+37Replace money with happiness and you're good to go. All religions have a happy afterlife as a promise. But only if you invest in this life first.
- jimmiss, on 12/08/2007, -2/+38http://www.xenu.net/
- nedev, on 12/08/2007, -9/+3Unfortunately pyramid schemes are protected by law when they are disguised as religion. That's why the ban probably isn't going to make it. See: http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSL0873 ...
- kgmurray, on 12/08/2007, -4/+32Please don't insult pyramid schemes, which are very forthright in their goals of scamming money from the greedy and stupid.
- Waterrat, on 12/08/2007, -4/+4And churches just scam money from the stupid...
- seventoes, on 12/09/2007, -1/+3Not stupid, just weak minded.
- Waterrat, on 12/08/2007, -4/+4And churches just scam money from the stupid...
- jdb252, on 12/08/2007, -33/+10Just because we don't agree with Scientology doesn't mean it should be banned like this. Scientology is just a more transparent fraud than other religions. Where's the supposedly libertarian tilt, Digg? We must protect freedom of speech even when it's not our own.
- Bamborzled, on 12/08/2007, -3/+25Here's the problem: Scientology is not a religion at all. It's a business that defrauds people every day out of thousands of their hard-earned dollars (or in this case, euros).
- babar77, on 12/08/2007, -4/+24Scientology is ORGANIZED CRIME. It would destroy you in any way it could because you don't agree with it. This isn't a joke or speculation, but the WRITTEN POLICY of an "organization" who's sole purpose is to prey on the weak minded to profit it's leadership.
I know there are several people here that will argue most religions are like that, but please don't cloud the topic. This is a far more dangerous organization and it's growing. On the public side they intend to complete fake eveyone out by having 50+ sub-organizations in an effort to create their own "perceived" credibility such as the Center for Human Rights, while on the private side they are infiltrating every law enforcement and government organization globally so they can gain the power to crush you in anyway they can for disagreeing with them. They would and do violate people's human rights everyday, but nothing is being done now because they own all the cops and mayors in the towns they are biggest such as LA and Clearwater, FL and are MAJOR contributors to political parties and candidates.
I'm glad there is still one country in this world that recognizes them for what they truly are and can still do something about it before they too are infiltrated. - spawnfree, on 12/09/2007, -2/+5We must protect freedom of speech?
if you allow Scientology to continue then you may as well say its ok for stronger people to rape weaker ones.
Scientology is pure head-*****.
- deejqu1k, on 12/08/2007, -9/+5Agreed its shady, but this is a terrible precedent. As long as they dont intrude in the public sphere they should let them be. Germany tried something similar to this in the 30's. Needless to say history sees it as a PR nightmare.
Its a little scary how galvanized the opposition is.- Jugalator, on 12/08/2007, -1/+10If destructive cults are criminal in a country, Scientology should be too. The problem is that cults like these have as a goal to deceive masses of people into thinking they are something they aren't. It could be seen as illegal as a company deceiving people into joining them and then offer horrible working conditions, etc.
People cry foul at bad advertising, so why not this? Deceiving advertising is usually nothing compared to someone who get engulfed in a cult anyway.- mycall0, on 12/09/2007, -1/+0Often the Scientology church compiles a list of your closet skeletons to deter you from going after them once you snap out of it.
- Jugalator, on 12/08/2007, -1/+10If destructive cults are criminal in a country, Scientology should be too. The problem is that cults like these have as a goal to deceive masses of people into thinking they are something they aren't. It could be seen as illegal as a company deceiving people into joining them and then offer horrible working conditions, etc.
- bwdd, on 12/09/2007, -1/+1ahh, spatula madness, right?
- melshae, on 12/09/2007, -11/+3what church ISN'T a pyramid scheme?
- dbs1221, on 12/09/2007, -0/+1the church of satan
- ubergeek09, on 12/09/2007, -1/+4Yes it really just is a pyramid scheme. It's a cult whose sole purpose was for it's creator to earn money and power.
- sdellboy, on 12/09/2007, -1/+5L Ron once said, apparently, early in his career...that the best way to amass a fortune, was to start your own religion...I may have paraphrased that slightly but thats close enough to the mark...
- nskinn, on 12/09/2007, -1/+1Here is the South Park episode about Scientology:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1481459763 ...- Syntaxis, on 12/09/2007, -0/+2Creative director: John Doe, Animation: John Doe, Sound: Jane Doe, John Doe, Story: John Doe & John Doe, special thanks to: John Doe, John Doe, Jane Doe, John Doe and John Doe.
/giggle
- Syntaxis, on 12/09/2007, -0/+2Creative director: John Doe, Animation: John Doe, Sound: Jane Doe, John Doe, Story: John Doe & John Doe, special thanks to: John Doe, John Doe, Jane Doe, John Doe and John Doe.
- Bonobo, on 12/08/2007, -7/+247cult.
- daakone, on 12/08/2007, -23/+15This surprises me. I thought they had banned it years ago as a totalitarian organization.
- Optimaximal, on 12/08/2007, -13/+2Yeah, but that would be hypocritical...
- RoyLuhza, on 12/16/2007, -0/+1Outrageous ...totally fuggin outrageous, the Scientologists go to seminars, they attend courses and they have a happy time while they are at it... So what is wrong with that. Take a look at The Talmud and read the endorsement of hatred toward non Jews, so are the Germans gonna ban Talmudists, Jews that is.
- Optimaximal, on 12/08/2007, -13/+2Yeah, but that would be hypocritical...
- Herostratus, on 12/08/2007, -39/+412Its about time. Scientology is a dangerous cult that brainwashes its members to be completely loyal and faithful to the church even when it does the most despicable things and to turn a blind eye to anything disparaging about them. Kinda like the republican party.
- Albionshores, on 12/08/2007, -5/+76You don't have to buy Coulter's books to progress in the Republican Party.
- skyfire1, on 12/08/2007, -1/+35Tell that to my mom.
- AnthonyA7, on 12/08/2007, -5/+32I just did.
- jjb123, on 12/08/2007, -2/+17*Zing*
- AnthonyA7, on 12/08/2007, -5/+32I just did.
- skyfire1, on 12/08/2007, -1/+35Tell that to my mom.
- colobikeguy, on 12/08/2007, -16/+14yes you do... i got kicked out of the republican party when i refused to toss coulters salad at a republican party in ducanville texas...
- wakananda, on 12/08/2007, -3/+7Good for you. Republicans have been tossing the crazies' salad for too long.
- Shadow120, on 12/08/2007, -15/+27Like all religion?
- DeFex, on 12/08/2007, -4/+2sounds like the toronto maple leafs and their fans.
- flood6, on 12/09/2007, -3/+6I think Scientology is goofy as hell, but shouldn't everyone have the right to believe in whatever foolishness they want? It's their money, they are allowing themselves to get sucked in to a cult.
It's funny how many libertarian/Libertarian/RP supporters there are here, but so many are quick to suggest that a government is doing the right thing by banning a religion.- juxtapose73, on 12/09/2007, -3/+6The issue is that it's not recognized as a religion. It's more or less a pyramid scheme; fraud on a mass scale that purports itself to be a religion in order to gain the protection and financial support that many religions enjoy. With that being said... ALL religions could be viewed this way. Look at the multi million dollar mega churches in Colorado and the mass amounts of money they take in and the kind of money tv preachers make at the expense of weak and vulnerable people. It's a fine line of tackling fraud while still allowing people the right to hold their own beliefs.
- dagnome1984, on 12/09/2007, -2/+2I'm with you on this one.
- pepemt, on 12/09/2007, -4/+6the [former] republican party...
ron paul 2008!
- Albionshores, on 12/08/2007, -5/+76You don't have to buy Coulter's books to progress in the Republican Party.
- strafefire, on 12/08/2007, -103/+38". Scientology is a dangerous cult that brainwashes its members to be completely loyal and faithful to the church even when it does the most despicable things and to turn a blind eye to anything disparaging about them."
Yeah, kind of like Islam, and Judaism, and Christianity, and Hinduism...you know, ALL religions!
If they ban Scientology, what is to stop them from then banning LDS under the same rules. Then, Islam, then Wahhbism, etc, etc until you have no choice in religion?
We all like to make fun of Scientology, but at the end of the day, it is a religion, and people can believe what the hell they want, even the "Flying Spaghetti Monster" if they want to!
From Wikipedia:
"A religion is a set of common beliefs and practices generally held by a group of people, often codified as prayer, ritual, and religious law. Religion also encompasses ancestral or cultural traditions, writings, history, and mythology, as well as personal faith and mystic experience. The term "religion" refers to both the personal practices related to communal faith and to group rituals and communication stemming from shared conviction."- dondara, on 12/08/2007, -3/+54No, it's not a religion. I don't want to see any sort of ban of religions but CoS is just a scam, NOTHING more. They are the worst kind of organized crime and should be banned worldwide as a criminal organization.
- dagnome1984, on 12/09/2007, -2/+1It has the same amount of validity as the big religions, none. I don't see how it's any different than say Christianity where people donate money to get "cured".
- JLecker, on 12/08/2007, -2/+56Scientology isn't a religion. It's a way to extract massive sums of money from the rich and stupid. While I would normally support fleecing morons with too much money, ordinary people get involved and have their lives ruined or even taken away by Scientology.
- f4nt0m4s, on 12/08/2007, -37/+8shut the ***** up, hippy
- Albionshores, on 12/08/2007, -2/+65It's not a religion in Germany. It's not a religion in France or the UK either. In fact it is quicker to list the handful of countries which do regard it as a religion than it is to list those that don't. I suppose you could argue what qualifies as a religion should be up for personal interpretation. In which case I would argue a friend that claims to have information that will save you and does not give that information freely but makes you pay for it isn't a friend but is holding you to ransom.
Scientology does just that - it does not have the initiates best interests at heart. I would also argue that a friend would not keep records on you, openly admitting that if you were ever to leave and speak out about them that these records of an intimate and personal nature will be used against you. I guess I'm saying personally I see a prerequisite of religion as having the best interests of those who come to it at heart - and Scientology doesn't pass muster on this.
Then again I'm lucky; I live in one of those many countries which does not recognise Scientology as a religion.- Chrisfromdevon, on 12/08/2007, -1/+15This is the most salient and sensible thing that has been written here so far. Good man/women! I do like it whee diggers with intellect make a good point.
- jimmiss, on 12/08/2007, -3/+31IT IS NOT A RELIGION. DO SOME RESEARCH.
- bbardlbradd, on 12/08/2007, -9/+3It is seen to be a religion by the US government.
- supermanred, on 12/08/2007, -2/+15The US governement are a bunch of idiots.
- avediscordia, on 12/08/2007, -0/+9Only because they sued the IRS so many times that they finally gave up and granted CoS tax-exempt status
- dagnome1984, on 12/09/2007, -0/+2It has a set of irrational beliefs that are not subject to reality. It fits the basic smell test of a religion. What does it matter if the religion was made up two thousands years ago verses a few decades ago?
- dbs1221, on 12/09/2007, -1/+1that one charges for salvation, (according to some puts its faithful in serious danger by depriving them by force of psychiatric medication).
- bbardlbradd, on 12/08/2007, -9/+3It is seen to be a religion by the US government.
- Singularitarian, on 12/08/2007, -19/+6Who are all these people digging down strafefire's comment?? Isn't it obvious that banning Scientology would be a dangerous first violation of the principle of separation of church and state? Wouldn't this clearly be a step away from individual freedom/choice and towards government controlling its citizens' lives?
- thebellmaster1x, on 12/08/2007, -5/+22No.
Even as an atheist, I have to admit that Scientology is FAR more dangerous to society than any other religion. Name one religion besides the CoS that requires you to pay money. Closest I can think of is tithing in Christianity--but that hasn't been done for something like 200 years. Even donating ANYTHING now is optional.
Scientology is NOT a religion. It's an unfortunate way to scam people out of their money by giving them patently false beliefs.- babar77, on 12/08/2007, -2/+15Here's another BIG difference between Scientology and every religion I know of. I grew up Catholic (not anymore) but I'll use them in this example because it's what I know best:
Let's take the act of Confession - or telling a religious figure your deepest darkest secrets in hope of redemption:
Catholism - This is usually done in a booth, or in a fashion where the identity of the sinner is at least attempted to be secret. No notes are taken, and the priest is sworn to never reveal what he is told (even if forced by laws created by man) otherwise he will be cast to hell if he does - no excuses, zero tolerance, one way ticket to damnation - even if the "sinner" eventually turns against the church.
Scientology - You get hooked to a machine. You pay money to do this. You identity is kept and verified. All information you give is rigorously noted, categorized, and filed for easy reference. The unknown machine probably measures stress levels so the person you're confessing to knows you're giving them the good stuff. Then if you ever become a critic of the church or don't do what they threaten to use your deepest secrets against you either for embarrassment or prosecution.
Now you tell me who's the more dangerous organization.- chaosium, on 12/09/2007, -2/+5This information and confessions are all stored at their international data storage for instant recall and blackmail purposes.
- dagnome1984, on 12/09/2007, -2/+2That is why you target the blackmail and not the religion. I find it sick that everyone is in here supporting thought crime.
- Albionshores, on 12/09/2007, -1/+1Nobody is supporting thought crime - it is you that doesn't understand want is happening. Germany does not recognise Scientology as a religion - it is, to them, a business, an organization.
Any country is capable of closing down a business. Don't believe me? - open up a restaurant serving rotten meat from a salmonella grill and see how long it takes for 'health and safety' to shut you down. Simply put a business which sells poisonous food to unknowing citizens - threatening their health and even their lives will not be tolerated. No human rights or freedoms are compromised. The rights and freedoms of the business are compromised.
Act unresponisbly and be brought into line or shut down. SAME THING HERE WITH SCIENTOLOGY. Nobody is saying Scientologists can't visit or live in Germany. They can sit and read their own material until their little eyes dry up and drop out and nobody will bother them. It is the organization that will be banned - not them! But if a scientologist begins to promote or sell his wares, to operate the business (and Germany recognises it as a business) then that will be a transgression of the law - just as intentionally poisoning people is a transgression of the law.
- dagnome1984, on 12/09/2007, -1/+2If the state does ban the religion it is by definition a s separation of church and state violation. You can't have it both ways. You can't argue against the bible to not be used in the class room because of church and state separation violation than say the state can ban such and such. That would be a total contradiction of the principle unless you were not for the principle to begin with.
- babar77, on 12/08/2007, -2/+15Here's another BIG difference between Scientology and every religion I know of. I grew up Catholic (not anymore) but I'll use them in this example because it's what I know best:
- dbs1221, on 12/09/2007, -1/+2how bout this, you can be an atheist and pay a pseudo-doctor to audit you as medical treatment and if your lucky maybe you can even get your insurance to pay for it, its alot cheaper than real medical treatment so I'm sure they'd be thrilled.
- thebellmaster1x, on 12/08/2007, -5/+22No.
- jetsetter883, on 12/08/2007, -13/+4agreed with this statement. leave it up to diggers to silence any views on religious oppression. im an athiest and scientology is no different from christianity or the like. stop using the lame-ass 'they extract money from you' argument. most religions do.
- dagnome1984, on 12/09/2007, -0/+1This atheist agrees.
- dbs1221, on 12/09/2007, -1/+1Which other religions still charge for salvation
- dondara, on 12/08/2007, -3/+54No, it's not a religion. I don't want to see any sort of ban of religions but CoS is just a scam, NOTHING more. They are the worst kind of organized crime and should be banned worldwide as a criminal organization.
- sundancekid503, on 12/08/2007, -29/+151After careful consideration, the US has retaliated by banning lederhosen
- JigsawX, on 12/08/2007, -3/+19Oh no you dinent!!strudel embargo incoming that learn yeas.:p
- ConanTL, on 12/08/2007, -1/+19Austria is strudel country my friend. So no need to fear!
- Pixelante, on 12/08/2007, -3/+29Vee haf vays to make strudel.
- bono4u, on 12/08/2007, -1/+2austria is definetly strudel country, but in bavaria there are some place where i thought they nicked the formular from austria :)
- ConanTL, on 12/08/2007, -1/+19Austria is strudel country my friend. So no need to fear!
- Nudar, on 12/08/2007, -26/+2Scientology did not originate in America.
- mikewitt, on 12/08/2007, -2/+24Yes, it did.
See El Ron Hubbard.- Rikkochet, on 12/08/2007, -0/+20No, it originated in SPACE. When vicious Lord Xenu left survivors would could tell the tale of his crimes!
Oh wait, no he didn't. Unlike Christianity which can at least pretend that its holy book was written by reliable authors at the time these fantastic things were happening, Scientology just pulls this crap out of the air. I don't think they have an Anne Frank to fall back on.- Ataxia87, on 12/08/2007, -1/+4Yes! I love Scientology articles on Digg. It reminds me that this place isn't full of idiots.
- Rikkochet, on 12/08/2007, -0/+20No, it originated in SPACE. When vicious Lord Xenu left survivors would could tell the tale of his crimes!
- pyrotix, on 12/08/2007, -1/+16I suppose technically it began in outer space when the aliens first hatched their plan to control our minds 30,000 years ago.
- wakananda, on 12/08/2007, -0/+14You're going to be reeducated for divulging that high-level information...
- Nudar, on 12/09/2007, -1/+118 buries for a joke.
- mikewitt, on 12/08/2007, -2/+24Yes, it did.
- Rikkochet, on 12/08/2007, -1/+58No, they just started selling them as Freedom Hosen.
- bono4u, on 12/08/2007, -0/+2thats for me as german ok, would like to see that law here in bavaria, too ^^
- GooksBirman, on 12/09/2007, -0/+2But if we did that what would I wear to church on Sunday?
- jkr0z, on 12/09/2007, -0/+0as long as we can still have their cars I am fine. I never really like lederhosens any way
- JigsawX, on 12/08/2007, -3/+19Oh no you dinent!!strudel embargo incoming that learn yeas.:p
- whatthefu, on 12/08/2007, -37/+106Sounds pretty authoritarian to me.
- juicebag, on 12/08/2007, -15/+17Coming from a country that bans red blood in video games, this is unsurprising.
- Pixelante, on 12/08/2007, -2/+35They ban red blood in everything. If you cut yourself while slicing bologna, they censor you. I wonder how they can do blood transfusions.
- Optimaximal, on 12/08/2007, -1/+13in the dark...
- Pixelante, on 12/08/2007, -2/+35They ban red blood in everything. If you cut yourself while slicing bologna, they censor you. I wonder how they can do blood transfusions.
- iticu, on 12/08/2007, -8/+36Protecting your people from a scamming organisation is surely a bad thing.
- cnot3, on 12/08/2007, -0/+10They should have the freedom to choose to be idiots.
- mcmlxxii, on 12/08/2007, -1/+1If you're going to start legislating for stupidity you really do have your work cut out. I would suggest that there are already laws in place in Germany to protect people from extortion and the like.
- oriondr, on 12/08/2007, -12/+12Nay, this is a victory. There is no reason governments to allow for cults like this to exist.
- lotsa1s, on 12/09/2007, -2/+3Why? How is government control over what you think somehow better then the freedom to make your own decisions about yourself?
- tybris, on 12/08/2007, -1/+7In Europe we have other political ideals. Most of us believe in moderate socialism which is by nature somewhat authoritarian.
- bono4u, on 12/08/2007, -2/+1and moderate capitalism
- Pake, on 12/09/2007, -1/+1And world domination.
- bono4u, on 12/09/2007, -0/+1mmm, if achieved without reing of terror and destroying the lives of soldiers and civilians, ok lets do it.
- yahoofrom, on 12/09/2007, -1/+1Socialism as in Europe is about government giving people national health care and public education and protect people from the harm of corporations. But I don't think banning a cult is a way to achieve these goals.
- bono4u, on 12/08/2007, -0/+1What did you thought? There are still some Kings and Queens in Europe, although mostly for prestigious tasks, i don't like that, for me those are only ballast and taxpayers are the loosers again. At least there are no kings and queens in my country.
- cfuse, on 12/09/2007, -3/+5You know what? It's a damn shame that other countries don't have the same attitude.
Scientology isn't a religion, it's a scam and a cult. If people want to join a weird cult then that's their business, but when it's a scam designed to take their money then that is a crime and the government is totally correct in intervening. - JJcollection, on 12/09/2007, -0/+2guys, I just can't believe how many of you guys really think everyone in Germany runs around in lederhosen or says "heil hitler"... in fact NO one does! Just step of your big horse, travel a little... go out in the world and you will see that not much differs from your beloved usa, we even have nearly as many douchebags here as you have...
- juicebag, on 12/08/2007, -15/+17Coming from a country that bans red blood in video games, this is unsurprising.
- DarthDubbya, on 12/08/2007, -13/+221WWXD?
- Chrisfromdevon, on 12/08/2007, -16/+23Is that What Would Xenu Do.
- MatttK, on 12/08/2007, -1/+47Congratulations. You win a gold star.
- Shadow120, on 12/08/2007, -5/+4HAHA
- XxATAROTHxX, on 12/08/2007, -6/+20Xenu is the bad guy in the Scientology saga unlike Jesus, that crazy jew-zombie.
- Ataxia87, on 12/08/2007, -1/+1"Comment of the article"
- llbbl, on 12/09/2007, -0/+5+1 for jew-zombie
- WaltDismal, on 12/08/2007, -1/+21In Christianity, if you can turn water into wine, you're a god.
In Scientology, if you can turn recruits into sources of money, you're a god. - blademanx, on 12/09/2007, -0/+2Destroy All Humans?
- Torpov, on 12/09/2007, -1/+4Fly aliens to earth, stack their frozen up next to volcanoes, then set hydrogen bombs off?
- Bigheadaus, on 12/09/2007, -0/+1That's already been done :P. We need to know what is next...
- graeh, on 12/09/2007, -0/+1*golf clap*
- Albionshores, on 12/09/2007, -0/+2"WWXD?" you ask,
Capture your 'soul', fly millions of lightyears in a DC10 alien ship lookalike to Hawaii where he will drop it in a volcano before exposing you to brainwashing propaganda. But I don't see how that is relevant here...a better question would be "WWDD?"
(Dumbledore always does the right thing)
- Chrisfromdevon, on 12/08/2007, -16/+23Is that What Would Xenu Do.
- annonimality, on 12/08/2007, -45/+20There was a day when Christianity was considered a cult just like Scientology. If you ban one, you should ban all.
- Phatfiddler, on 12/08/2007, -4/+7Yesterday?
- giveer, on 12/08/2007, -3/+4Are you referring to the whole Luther Reformation nailing thing? Dogmatic Christianity was certainly shunned prior to that because it simply didn't really exist. - In practice anyway. But I'd be hard pressed to find a parallel to when institutional Christianity was viewed as a Scientology-like religion. Unless of course, you're talkin' about those tv preacher guys with all the cash.. Damn, those guys are bonkers. And yeah, then I'd say it's pretty damn close.
- Rikkochet, on 12/08/2007, -0/+1I think he's talking about a few centuries BC when it was an upstart fragmentation of the Jewish faith that didn't really gain much traction until that Jesus guy came along and called all that attention to himself...
- daverave999, on 12/08/2007, -0/+3How could Christianity begin 'Before Christ'?
- bwchambers, on 12/08/2007, -0/+2It could've started as a Jewish baptismal sect which John the Baptist was a follower of. Then Jesus and his followers within the sect hi-jacked it for their messianic message.
- bono4u, on 12/09/2007, -0/+1what Jesus guy? Is there evidence that Jesus existed like those mummies of the Egypt's and their Pagan religion described in stone pictures.
- daverave999, on 12/08/2007, -0/+3How could Christianity begin 'Before Christ'?
- phuzzy3d, on 12/08/2007, -0/+1Benny Hinn FTW
- DephexTwin, on 12/08/2007, -0/+2You know that fish symbol that has something to do with Christianity? Read about the early days of Christianity, where they had to go around in secret using that symbol as a sign of their group. They were considered a nutty crucified-guy-worshipping cult back then. It's just that Christianity won out in the end.
- dbs1221, on 12/09/2007, -0/+1no actually the Roman's were persecuting them, lets recall that they were declaring that a man crucified by the Roman Provincial Governor odds are they were pretty pissed off with the romans and seeing as the region had seen several revolts in the previous centuries it makes sense that the romans saw the christians as a high risk.
- bono4u, on 12/09/2007, -0/+1mmm, considering that in about 300 a.d. the first concile took place, Romans have had some unpleasant experiences with Christians. Therefore the emperor ordered the priest of different cults to create one religion. Till today there is no evidence that there was someone called Jesus Christ or sth like that. I like the beginning of the Zeitgeist movie.
- dbs1221, on 12/09/2007, -0/+1Well technically his name is Yisus Emanuel ben Yoseph veMary,
and Jesus probably did exist, whether he did all the things that are attributed to him is doubtful and whether he is actually the son of god or not is a question of one's personal faith.
But then again other famous guys have probably been made up to, look at Socrates - DephexTwin, on 12/10/2007, -0/+1Yes, they were persecuting him... and of course, you would have read that in the New Testament of the Bible, written by members of that early group. I have a feeling that if David Koresh had written his own bible, it would say he was being unfairly persecuted as well...
- dbs1221, on 12/09/2007, -0/+1no actually the Roman's were persecuting them, lets recall that they were declaring that a man crucified by the Roman Provincial Governor odds are they were pretty pissed off with the romans and seeing as the region had seen several revolts in the previous centuries it makes sense that the romans saw the christians as a high risk.
- Ataxia87, on 12/08/2007, -1/+1Everyone knows Monty Python created Christianity.
- Rikkochet, on 12/08/2007, -0/+1I think he's talking about a few centuries BC when it was an upstart fragmentation of the Jewish faith that didn't really gain much traction until that Jesus guy came along and called all that attention to himself...
- colobikeguy, on 12/08/2007, -4/+3Well... im kinda okay with that to be honest... sowwies! :)
- Delusionist, on 12/08/2007, -6/+12I agree. I find it very funny when Christians laugh at Scientology and don't even realize that their religion is just as ridiculous. Hypocrisy is always good for a laugh.
- AnthonyA7, on 12/08/2007, -1/+5Except I can be broke as ***** and still go to church every day of my life, have private conversations with priests, and be involved in the church activities.
- moofer, on 12/08/2007, -3/+2Do you take them offerings of little boys instead?
- dagnome1984, on 12/09/2007, -0/+1They don't realize that their religion will be next.
- AnthonyA7, on 12/08/2007, -1/+5Except I can be broke as ***** and still go to church every day of my life, have private conversations with priests, and be involved in the church activities.
- jimmiss, on 12/08/2007, -2/+12Except they use modern brainwashing techniques to seperate you from your family. BTW it costs a few hundred grand to sign up.
- bono4u, on 12/08/2007, -2/+1in the good old days of nero
- fstorino, on 12/09/2007, -1/+1things were pretty hot in Rome back then...
- Curlz31, on 12/08/2007, -58/+191As much as I think and know Scientology is a scam, banning things is not the right approach, nor is it the morally correct approach. Educating people is my preferred option.
- slevit1, on 12/08/2007, -20/+75Education would be ideal. However, unfortunately, when you're dealing with religion, they tend not to listen to reason. If they did, religion would not still exist!
- Curlz31, on 12/08/2007, -3/+16which is why people need to be educated as children......i agree that dealing with current members is more difficult, but not impossible. I've read about quite a few people who have defected from scientology and even gone on to expose the absurdities.
- Pikachelsea, on 12/09/2007, -4/+6Yay, everyone digg up the conceited atheist! Because as we all know, atheists have a monopoly on reason, logic and common sense.
- GhostyBoy, on 12/09/2007, -2/+3Um...They sort of do, guy. I'm not an atheist. But even I have to admit that my belief is based on faith rather than reason logic or common sense.
- lotsa1s, on 12/09/2007, -0/+1Why is it that when ever I read Digg, I feel like I'm listening to Fundy Christians? Its frightening how alike the "we're right, they're wrong. How do we eliminate them?" rhetoric is.
- ConanTL, on 12/08/2007, -10/+17While I do understand what you are saying. I would still want to have them banned. It's not the ideology that is dangerous, it's the organisation. It shouldn't be illegal to practice Scientology but it should be illegal for the organisation to set foot in Germany.
- shotgunefx, on 12/09/2007, -0/+2Yeah, but that would be "False Tech".
Honestly, if people want to believe it regardless of all that's known about Hubbard, knock yourself out , it's the organization that's the real problem and their practices.
- shotgunefx, on 12/09/2007, -0/+2Yeah, but that would be "False Tech".
- colobikeguy, on 12/08/2007, -10/+13It shouldn't be illegal to practice Scientology but it should be illegal for the organisation to set foot in Germany - this makes no sense...
- Lukesed, on 12/08/2007, -3/+13Yes it does. The tenants of Scientology (as strange as they are) are not the problem. The problem is the organization surrounding them. I can go around yelling about Xenu as long as I don't start extorting people out if their money.
- imakecomments, on 12/08/2007, -3/+1Hey, sorry mate, but I think you meant 'tenets'. Tenants are the people who live somewhere and pay rent.
Tenet: a principle, belief, or doctrine generally held to be true; especially : one held in common by members of an organization, movement, or profession
Tenant: one who has the occupation or temporary possession of lands or tenements of another; specifically : one who rents or leases (as a house) from a landlord
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tenet
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tenant
- imakecomments, on 12/08/2007, -3/+1Hey, sorry mate, but I think you meant 'tenets'. Tenants are the people who live somewhere and pay rent.
- Lukesed, on 12/08/2007, -3/+13Yes it does. The tenants of Scientology (as strange as they are) are not the problem. The problem is the organization surrounding them. I can go around yelling about Xenu as long as I don't start extorting people out if their money.
- philz, on 12/08/2007, -0/+1Actually you get education about sects and cults in many public schools in Germany/Europe, so this is more a combination of both of these things.
- TeacherOfHeroes, on 12/08/2007, -3/+16The problem is that scientology works, kinda-sorta - just not for the reasons they claim.
Auditing is just a cheap knock-off of psychology - of talking to a therapist, and if people feel better after being audited, they can be convinved by this "evidence" that what scientology is talking about isn't a load of crap. (This is one of the reasons that they're so opposed to psychology - they don't want people to realize they're the same thing)
Unfortunately, as much as you try educating people, they'll be teaching falsehoods right back, and people who find that it works are going to believe scientology.- babar77, on 12/08/2007, -2/+6Auditing is NOT Psychology at all. If I go to a psychologist - it REMAINS CONFIDENTIAL and helps free me from my own personal demons or problems. if I go a CoS Auditor, the information is collected and used against me to keep me in line. HUGE difference.
- spectre_25gt, on 12/08/2007, -1/+5I think you're missing the point here a bit.
- babar77, on 12/08/2007, -2/+6Auditing is NOT Psychology at all. If I go to a psychologist - it REMAINS CONFIDENTIAL and helps free me from my own personal demons or problems. if I go a CoS Auditor, the information is collected and used against me to keep me in line. HUGE difference.
- kaiserm1, on 12/08/2007, -1/+17Practicing won't be banned. They want to ban the organisation "Church of Scientology" because it supposedly aims to abolish the german constitution and that is illegal in Germany.
- babar77, on 12/08/2007, -1/+4They'll also have to ban the 50+ sub-organizations it controls and operates like the Center for Human Rights.
- wakananda, on 12/08/2007, -2/+34Scientology has bought off the cops in Clearwater, Florida. If you try to "educate" people there, you get arrested. Scientology is organized crime.
- supermanred, on 12/08/2007, -1/+5Yes it is.
- thesonofdarwin, on 12/08/2007, -2/+3Education is trumped by faith. That is how religions (and "religions") work... Religion 101
- rpedro, on 12/08/2007, -0/+1Yes, as people become more dependent on corporate news *AND* education, things will surely become better.
- bono4u, on 12/08/2007, -0/+2i agree partly, banning in the most cases is problematic. This could be one of the few cases where a ban could be OK. I have seen and read a lot of Scientology and i think it is not good for people as long you are not the ones who get the money out of it. There is so much pressure on the folks who join from the very beginning.
But if not banned it is most likely that are people in there against their will. Educating people only helps if you are not allready in the cult. - bwchambers, on 12/09/2007, -3/+1How about this: When an organization in the US tries to apply for recognition as a religion or church, they should be required by law to publicly disclose all teachings and religious texts. If the organization fails to do so or if there is evidence that there are teachings or texts that were not made public, then they lose their tax privileges. The mainstream religions wouldn't have much problem dealing with this and it would take the "pyramid scheme" element out of sneaky startups like Scientology.
- thomasbeagle, on 12/09/2007, -0/+2I have a better idea - keep the government out of deciding which religions are valid and don't give tax breaks to any of them.
- shotgunefx, on 12/09/2007, -1/+1I agree (though they don't have Tax Exempt status IIRC).
I think anything wants to be considered a religion, should be able to withstand public scrutiny. That means, making texts available of all teachings and not hiding behind copyright.
- cfuse, on 12/09/2007, -0/+2Knowing conning people out of money is a crime. The government is totally correct in taking action.
- stoanhart, on 12/09/2007, -0/+2Anyone here who supports Ron Paul primarily because of his "Let adults make their own decisions" stance should be against this, even if they disapprove of Scientology. That's the boat I'm in; I'm happy and disappointed at the same time.
- slevit1, on 12/08/2007, -20/+75Education would be ideal. However, unfortunately, when you're dealing with religion, they tend not to listen to reason. If they did, religion would not still exist!
- xhizzle, on 12/08/2007, -13/+160I would have just banned it becuase it's ***** and threatens my non-***** society.
- colobikeguy, on 12/08/2007, -1/+48you have a non-***** society? can i join or is it too much ***** to join?
- diggik, on 12/08/2007, -0/+3Anybody can join a fantasy society. Feel free!
- zeromancer, on 12/08/2007, -7/+16you obviously don't live in america
- meik, on 12/09/2007, -1/+3he probably lives in Canada.
- XxATAROTHxX, on 12/08/2007, -1/+6I would have banned it because wack-jobs like Tom Cruise and John Travolta are some of it's main supporters.
- aelias, on 12/09/2007, -0/+2Down with *****!
- colobikeguy, on 12/08/2007, -1/+48you have a non-***** society? can i join or is it too much ***** to join?
- slevit1, on 12/08/2007, -34/+54One down...many more to go.
- STARTSOMETHING, on 12/08/2007, -21/+4Including evolution right? I mean if your banning everything lets include everything. Equal rights, right?
- manicleek, on 12/08/2007, -2/+10no, because then you would have to ban anything with a basis in both science and fact
- MenDAKE, on 12/08/2007, -14/+1No, because evolution is only only one aspect of science, and frankly scientists have no clue where we came from.
- Tahiri, on 12/09/2007, -1/+5They do have a clue. They have many clues. They point to evolution.
- manicleek, on 12/08/2007, -2/+10no, because then you would have to ban anything with a basis in both science and fact
- gr0ss, on 12/08/2007, -9/+13Evolution isn't religion, it's fact.
- MenDAKE, on 12/08/2007, -15/+3LOL! "Theory of Evolution" is a fact? Some people are so brainwashed it's unbelievable.
- navster15, on 12/08/2007, -2/+10Yeah, kinda like the "Theory of Gravity" is a fact. You guys need to learn the scientific meaning of the word 'theory' (i.e. an experimentally observed phenomena with no known contradiction). In the hierarchy of scientific understanding, 'theory' is second only to 'law'. Your presumed definition of 'theory' is more accurately labeled 'hypothesis'.
- MenDAKE, on 12/08/2007, -11/+5True, but that doesn't mean Evolution is a "fact". There's a big difference between hit on the head by a brick and wondering if a monkey is my distant ancestor. Evolution is obviously more complicated than that, but it just bugs me when people like gr0ss seem to get the idea that Evolution is a hard, cold, scientifically proven fact. So narrow minded.
- Beakerz, on 12/09/2007, -4/+1Navster15.... wrong.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/theory
read and enjoy.
i do believe (i guess this is the word to use) in evolution, but your argument was..... wrong.
- OisinT, on 12/09/2007, -0/+1Yeah, brainwashed by His Noodly Appendage!
- navster15, on 12/08/2007, -2/+10Yeah, kinda like the "Theory of Gravity" is a fact. You guys need to learn the scientific meaning of the word 'theory' (i.e. an experimentally observed phenomena with no known contradiction). In the hierarchy of scientific understanding, 'theory' is second only to 'law'. Your presumed definition of 'theory' is more accurately labeled 'hypothesis'.
- cquinnd, on 12/08/2007, -1/+7Evolution isn't fact, it is a series of "facts" providing a framework of understanding supported by the scientific method.
Religions (for the most part) survive because they create a similiar sustaining framework based on belief and anecdotes that are take as "fact" by the believers.- MenDAKE, on 12/08/2007, -2/+1Exactly.
- AnthonyA7, on 12/08/2007, -5/+4Alright buddy, time to pull out your 9th grad bio book. Now, I believe in and subscribe to the theory of evolution, but it's still a theory. Yes, a theory. Not even close to a fact (yet).
My point: don't twist the truth or you just dip down to the ignorant bible-thumpers' level.- kevinwiz, on 12/09/2007, -0/+4just throwing this in: there is more evidence supporting the theory of evolution than there is for the theory of gravity.
- Lewie, on 12/08/2007, -2/+6Before too many people get bent out of shape - Darwinian Evolution is the BEST explanation we have for life SO FAR. We cannot say it is definitely true, but from the evidence we have, it works the best. Just like Newtonian physics: it worked well, it still works, but we eventually found something with a better explanation (Relativity). Science is tentative and self-correcting. It never claims something is 'universally true', because we clearly don't know how much more there is out there to know.
- rnewson, on 12/08/2007, -4/+3Evolution is a fact, it's natural selection that's the theory. *That* species change over time is not disputed (by sane people), the *how* and *why* is.
The theory of natural selection explains the how and why in a way, thus far, uncontradicted by evidence. If it were shown to be false tomorrow, it would not stop kids being similar, but not identical, to their parents, they'd still get 50% of their DNA from each parent.
The main reason people object to the fact of evolution is that it contradicts ancient peasant myths. There's just no pleasing some people.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.htm ... - Beakerz, on 12/09/2007, -0/+2Evolution can be both fact and theory.... just depends on the way you're talking about it.
"The point of this statement is to differentiate the concept of the "fact of evolution", namely the observed changes in populations of organisms over time, with the "theory of evolution", namely the current scientific explanation of how those changes came about." -from wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_as_theory_a ... - kevinwiz, on 12/09/2007, -0/+1But what does that have to do with slevit's comment and what does it have to do with this topic altogether?
- MenDAKE, on 12/08/2007, -15/+3LOL! "Theory of Evolution" is a fact? Some people are so brainwashed it's unbelievable.
- Tipperzack, on 12/09/2007, -2/+3So i guess you like to see people lose there rights
- Beakerz, on 12/09/2007, -0/+2their*
possessive not placement.
- Beakerz, on 12/09/2007, -0/+2their*
- STARTSOMETHING, on 12/08/2007, -21/+4Including evolution right? I mean if your banning everything lets include everything. Equal rights, right?
- Ramble, on 12/08/2007, -27/+13Banning them just makes them stronger and more dangerous.
- heartsblood, on 12/08/2007, -0/+8The forbidden fruit is always the most seductive.
- theWrkncacnter, on 12/08/2007, -0/+3If you strike me down...
- gradivus, on 12/08/2007, -5/+3Just look at what it did for the jews in Germany.
- XenoSNK, on 12/08/2007, -18/+4As much as I love freedom of religion, it's also like freedom of speech.
If it's clearly incoherent, please don't.- Phatfiddler, on 12/08/2007, -1/+29In Germany, It is not considered a religion, and therefore is not covered by the same laws as a religion
- Lowrads, on 12/08/2007, -2/+5Perhaps it would be sufficient to revise national revenue auditing procedures to be more transparent to the public.
- bono4u, on 12/08/2007, -0/+1that wouldn't help those allready in the cult
- Stevethegreat, on 12/08/2007, -19/+31You know I'm all for free speech, in fact I believe that no matter how crazy someone may be he/she still has the right of free speech ..... except for scientology. I now it is a violation of my principles to hate scientology so much, but I would be glad to turn a blind eye whenever they ban their asses from each and every location, in fact I threw a party each time Tom Cruise was banned from German locations earlier this year. Props to the German government to be such bigots to scientology , bigotry in this case is a virtue.
- Nudar, on 12/08/2007, -2/+11Although it may be the case with scientology, who gets to decide? What if popular opinion was against your religion and decided to ban it?
- iticu, on 12/08/2007, -1/+3Then he'd move to a state or country that had his morals and stop bugging everyone else.
- carlosos, on 12/08/2007, -1/+1Don't forget that isn't a religion but a business/cult.
- iticu, on 12/08/2007, -1/+3Then he'd move to a state or country that had his morals and stop bugging everyone else.
- MenDAKE, on 12/08/2007, -2/+8You hit the nail on the head, Nudar. Whether or not we agree with Scientology we can't let people ban religions simply because they think their doctrines or methods suck. If there's good, hard evidence to show that people are being abused or scammed by the group as a whole that's one thing, but not just because it doesn't "feel" right. There are all kinds of pervs and con men in the Catholic church, bu that doesn't mean we should ban them.
- bono4u, on 12/08/2007, -1/+1in germany Scientology does not count as a religion, so the constitution is not broken by banning them. There are clear regulations which define what a religion and what a cult is.
- cranium, on 12/09/2007, -0/+2Damn, you guys have *regulations* about what makes a religion? Next thing you know you'll be speaking German! Oh, wait...
- bono4u, on 12/09/2007, -0/+1sometimes it is really exhausting to get information straight while not reacting pissed, isn't it?
- cranium, on 12/09/2007, -0/+2Damn, you guys have *regulations* about what makes a religion? Next thing you know you'll be speaking German! Oh, wait...
- bono4u, on 12/08/2007, -1/+1in germany Scientology does not count as a religion, so the constitution is not broken by banning them. There are clear regulations which define what a religion and what a cult is.
- babar77, on 12/08/2007, -2/+7This isn't a case of free speech. This is a case of a CRIMINAL ORGANIZATION. This organization blackmails, infiltrates, violates privacy, defrauds, extorts, brainwashes, and MURDERS people. That's why they should be banned, because it is their written policy to do such things. They would destroy free speech and the freedom of religion if it were up to them.
- Gozchev, on 12/09/2007, -0/+0Of course I don't doubt what you said, but you could make a stronger case by pointing somewhere where there is a report or something on this for people to see. It is indeed a very dangerous situation, seemingly becoming (in my imagination and hopefully not in real life) a HOSTEL(movie) - type idea where you "pay to play" and the members are everywhere, influencing everything and everyone. Pretty damn scary.
- Nudar, on 12/08/2007, -2/+11Although it may be the case with scientology, who gets to decide? What if popular opinion was against your religion and decided to ban it?
- Todamont, on 12/08/2007, -11/+182Scientology is not a religion, it is a corporation that murders people and blackmails politicians.
- 32bytes, on 12/08/2007, -18/+4Same as any goverment!
- iticu, on 12/08/2007, -2/+12Lame.
- Bamborzled, on 12/08/2007, -2/+8"Hey, look, I'm so anti-establishment. I'm so cool by pandering for diggs." --Mindset of the average Digg commenter
- iticu, on 12/08/2007, -2/+12Lame.
- bono4u, on 12/08/2007, -0/+2In germany there are strict regulations how to identify a cult and how to define a religion. I am only upset that it took so long to ban them.
- cranium, on 12/09/2007, -3/+2What a bunch of assholes. People should be free to choose their own religion/cult/whatever.
- arcade, on 12/09/2007, -1/+1People should be free to choose to organize into a mafia and call it a religion/cult/whatever.
No? Well, then you don't like scientology after all then.
Scientology is _bad_, mmmkey? Read up on www.xenu.net or alt.religion.scientology - bono4u, on 12/09/2007, -0/+1people are free in their believes, but if a organization brainwashes their members so they don't really no anymore if their boy or girl, titan or human, then there could be a problem with freedom of believes. This the point where the state has the right to interfere, any constitutional law/statement has two sides, the rights of the people and the duty of the state to protect those rights. In the case of CoS, i think the state should fulfill his duty to protect the people.
- arcade, on 12/09/2007, -1/+1People should be free to choose to organize into a mafia and call it a religion/cult/whatever.
- cranium, on 12/09/2007, -3/+2What a bunch of assholes. People should be free to choose their own religion/cult/whatever.
- mastercheifIRL, on 12/13/2007, -0/+1em, those things are what qualifies most religions as religion. every religion is corrupt
- 32bytes, on 12/08/2007, -18/+4Same as any goverment!
- unknwn, on 12/08/2007, -33/+10This is so... European. Something we don't agree with, or something that we don't like, ban, ban, ban.
They make fun of us with our "stupid President," but they don't realize the Police State that we're fighting, they're already in!- Pixelante, on 12/08/2007, -19/+3Europeans, actually, do not understand the idea of "freedom" USians hold so sacred. They love their Komisars, their "papers please" police, their CCTVs, their bans, their "verboten" signs everywhere. It's an old tradition that they hold dear since the days of absolute monarchy. It's a Euro thing. You couldn't understand.
- Breepee, on 12/08/2007, -1/+9Hmm, so the whole of Europe is German now (verboten sings everywhere, or is that just the only 'european' word you know)? And UK (with their CCTV's) is the whole of Yurp too, right? Komisars? Have you ever /seen/ a Russian on your own soil?
Jebus, please, stay RIGHT where you are, and never EVER visit a contitent you have your whole mind made up about.- Pixelante, on 12/08/2007, -9/+2You mean another continent besides Europe? Because that's where I live. Yes, I used the word "Komisar", because it has negative connotations for most East Europeans. The fact that the EU puts "commissars" in charge of everything should ring a bell.
By the way, I speak 3 languages. Se non ti piace il tedesco possiamo parlare Italiano. Ou on peut parler Français. Jamais visité la France, n'est-ce pas?
And I have seen PLENTY of Russians, spaziba.- Breepee, on 12/08/2007, -1/+1Holy ***** THREE languages, DAMN! Guess that makes me with only four look really bad.
Only Americans would mistake symbolism for reality: commisars does not mean anything else than taking part in a commision. Unlike some countries, we like that, even high up, things are democratic, and we don't really need a strong leader to march us against whatever. We found out that that didn't work so well.
- Breepee, on 12/08/2007, -1/+1Holy ***** THREE languages, DAMN! Guess that makes me with only four look really bad.
- Pixelante, on 12/08/2007, -9/+2You mean another continent besides Europe? Because that's where I live. Yes, I used the word "Komisar", because it has negative connotations for most East Europeans. The fact that the EU puts "commissars" in charge of everything should ring a bell.
- nedev, on 12/08/2007, -1/+7I'm going to assume you were kidding, but thanks to youtube comments I'm no longer sure.
- Chrisfromdevon, on 12/08/2007, -0/+1Do you own a passport? Are you mental?
- Pixelante, on 12/08/2007, -3/+1Oh yes. And ID card. Mandatory here. Papers please, you know.
- manicleek, on 12/08/2007, -0/+1just mental then
- Breepee, on 12/08/2007, -1/+9Hmm, so the whole of Europe is German now (verboten sings everywhere, or is that just the only 'european' word you know)? And UK (with their CCTV's) is the whole of Yurp too, right? Komisars? Have you ever /seen/ a Russian on your own soil?
- SimonGray, on 12/08/2007, -2/+15Germany != Europe
- Roblodocus, on 12/08/2007, -2/+8Do you know how many countries there are in Europe? Germany != Europe.
- Pixelante, on 12/08/2007, -6/+1Germany is one of the most influential members of the EU. Trends in Germany affect all of Europe. It's not Belgium we're talking about. BTW, Germany also has recently enacted a law that makes most security auditing tools illegal. Do you spot another trend?
I don't like Scientology at all, but everybody has the right to be stupid.- supermanred, on 12/08/2007, -0/+5Germany does not equal Europe. You should get out of your country once in a while and travel. Each European country is different from the next.
You want totalitariam, big brother? Try flying into England and spend a few days in London.- Pixelante, on 12/08/2007, -2/+1Been there. Did you know that in Italy you can be arrested for saying that some fascists weren't bad? And that insulting the President of France is a punishable offence? That supporting the Basque (not the ETA) in Spain means incarceration?
I have traveled. What about you? Or do you visit other countries by clicking on hyperlinks? - Breepee, on 12/08/2007, -2/+1@ Pixel:
Did you know in Utah you need to walk with a flag in front of a woman driving a car? Did you know that America is basically two countries the democratic cities and the republican rural areas?
Come on, if you're gonna throw mud, just say so.
- Pixelante, on 12/08/2007, -2/+1Been there. Did you know that in Italy you can be arrested for saying that some fascists weren't bad? And that insulting the President of France is a punishable offence? That supporting the Basque (not the ETA) in Spain means incarceration?
- supermanred, on 12/08/2007, -0/+5Germany does not equal Europe. You should get out of your country once in a while and travel. Each European country is different from the next.
- Pixelante, on 12/08/2007, -6/+1Germany is one of the most influential members of the EU. Trends in Germany affect all of Europe. It's not Belgium we're talking about. BTW, Germany also has recently enacted a law that makes most security auditing tools illegal. Do you spot another trend?
- Breepee, on 12/08/2007, -3/+3Yeah, because a pyramid-scheme is something so important to allow, much more important than leaving other countries (that you really don't know squat about, but want to bomb anyway) alone...
- Pixelante, on 12/08/2007, -1/+4I just love your naivete. You don't now where I am posting from, and automatically you assume I am an American. I am not.
Is your attitude typical of Diggers? No wonder 99% of all comments seem written by 5-year old retarded kids.- Breepee, on 12/08/2007, -0/+1FYI: I was replying to someone who isn't you and said Euro's made fun of his 'stupid president'. Pretty clear to me what he was talking about.
- Pixelante, on 12/08/2007, -1/+4I just love your naivete. You don't now where I am posting from, and automatically you assume I am an American. I am not.
- bono4u, on 12/09/2007, -0/+3"This is so... European. Something we don't agree with, or something that we don't like, ban, ban, ban."
I don't know if this statement points to your intellect or to your nationality, but i believe the former.
"They make fun of us with our "stupid President," but they don't realize the Police State that we're fighting, they're already in!"
I don't have a clue what you mean, there are so much ""stupid Presidents"".
But i am very concerned with my home country Germany becoming a Police State. We have had that in our history and i don't want that again. I think Germans themselves don't make a lot of trouble to the state in form of protesting, there we can learn a lot of our french neighbors and do protest more frequently like them. Germans in general i would want to compare with Americans, it takes us very long till we get on the streets, perhaps even longer. SimonGray is right when he points out Europe!=Germany. There is no country in this world which doesn't has its own special problems and i am always open for suggestions. Perhaps it would be also wise for you to have some thoughts about the difference between nationalism and patriotism and which of those is totally misleading in modern times and what are the problems with the other if politicians are lying to you.
- Pixelante, on 12/08/2007, -19/+3Europeans, actually, do not understand the idea of "freedom" USians hold so sacred. They love their Komisars, their "papers please" police, their CCTVs, their bans, their "verboten" signs everywhere. It's an old tradition that they hold dear since the days of absolute monarchy. It's a Euro thing. You couldn't understand.
- SiNN4R, on 12/08/2007, -25/+14I'm no fan of scientology but this is kind of ridiculous. The government shouldn't ban religions even if they're clearly a for profit scheme.
- jimmiss, on 12/08/2007, -1/+17Its not a religion, and they promote violence and destruction. They tried to overthrow the Canadian govt in the 60s and came closer than anyone else ever has.
Look up : Remember Lisa - ingomaro, on 12/08/2007, -2/+9In Germany, Scientology is not a religion, neither officially (they have been denied Religion status) nor in the public opinion. They are as much a church as the church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
In the public opinion they are just a bunch of weirdos which conspire.
Weirdo organizations can and should be banned if their goals are incompatible with the constitution (in this case "such as the right to develop one's personality and the right to be treated equally") - kgmurray, on 12/08/2007, -1/+1Instead of banning these fruitcakes and scam artisits, they should expose them fully, bring them in to the open. Like cockroaches, they will disappear on their own.
- megarobotguy, on 12/09/2007, -0/+2Problems is that we know that they are corrupt. The government knows that they are corrupt. But people that are already in the cult goes out and corrupts other people to join their corporation of hate.
- Vektuz, on 12/08/2007, -1/+1THey're banning the organization (the money-grabbing, the rioting, the controlling, the culting). People are free to practice it as they wish, or run their own private churches that do not funnel funds to the the 'main corporation'.
- iansides, on 12/08/2007, -4/+1yeah if they're banning psuedo-religions because their sole motive is to make money, then Al Gore's Global Warming Cult should be banned as well.
Now watch my comment be dugg down and me being called a "neocon" and "fascist" by a bunch of uneducated people who have swallowed all of their "information" about global warming from a ***** slideshow by a greedy, dishonest, hypocritical politician instead of doing extensive research and watching interviews with real meteorologists and climate experts as I have. Go ahead, digg me down, bury the truth to promote your ***** agenda, but just remember: that makes you the ***** fascist.- daverave999, on 12/08/2007, -1/+3Get over yourself man.
- iansides, on 12/09/2007, -0/+1I wasn't trying to be all high and mighty, just making a comment on the cliche digg user's brain capacity and its effects on comment quality (and degree of hypocrisy), quantity of diggs, and repetition of terms, especially when used in relation to certain taboo subjects such as the global warming frenzy. In other words, I am not saying that I am great, just that the average digg user (in my experience) is quite ignorant and this is reflected in the comments that get dugg/ buried. It's really sad because you'd think that on a news site more people would be informed.
- daverave999, on 12/08/2007, -1/+3Get over yourself man.
- schavira, on 12/09/2007, -0/+1This person speaks the truth. No matter how much despise another religion, people should still be able to practice whatever they please.
- jimmiss, on 12/08/2007, -1/+17Its not a religion, and they promote violence and destruction. They tried to overthrow the Canadian govt in the 60s and came closer than anyone else ever has.
- ettin, on 12/08/2007, -3/+7They would have more success banning stupid people. Then if they passed laws banning thought systems they would effectively ban themselves.
- democracysucks, on 12/08/2007, -23/+4On the next page over, people are having a fit that one of Romney's guys won't say that atheists have a place in America. Not Romney himself, and not denying it. And yet Digg thinks it's the end of the world.
But when Germany wants to ban Scientology, Digg says amen.- Breepee, on 12/08/2007, -1/+6Your logic eludes me, please enlighten us all.
- iticu, on 12/08/2007, -2/+7Scientology isn't a bloody religion.
- phauwn, on 12/08/2007, -0/+3Yea, I can't figure out what the hell your point is... you're shocked that your own opinions don't somehow correlate with the entire digg community in a way that reliably justifies your own biases? Sorry to disappoint you, I guess.
- megarobotguy, on 12/09/2007, -0/+1What page are you taking about?
- Breepee, on 12/08/2007, -1/+6Your logic eludes me, please enlighten us all.
- ZeUs07, on 12/08/2007, -10/+64I'm generally not against religion and I'm all for religious freedom... Most religions have both good things and bad things that they have done in the world - but Scientology only destroys. Destroys the financial security, minds, families, relationships, even lives of its members. They are one of the most insidious and dangerous organizations on the planet today.
A friend my family got sucked in a while back, and while we finally convinced him to to leave, by the time we did he was flat broke (having given all his money to them) and so brainwashed that he's still a little crazy at times. This was a guy who was pretty normal before hand.
Scientology should be banned everywhere.- MenDAKE, on 12/08/2007, -12/+3What's your definition of "a little crazy at times"? Different from the mainstream? Overly religious? Depressed? Perhaps Scientology did mess him up, but all too often I've seen people get branded as insane simply because they chose to be different.
- cfuse, on 12/09/2007, -1/+5I think the definition of a little crazy in this case is 'behaviour that people who are recovering from indoctrination exhibit'. After your spirit has been broken and your thought processes reshaped it's going to take quite a while to recover to a normal state - you essentially have to relearn how to be yourself. That isn't 'being different' that's being 'you'.
- MenDAKE, on 12/09/2007, -0/+1Sorry. but that's absolute crap. I can't believe people believe that brainwashing stuff. Comments like that come from watching too many self-proclaimed cult experts on TV. Cults are nothing more than religions and members are no more brainwashed than a devout catholic or Muslim.
- cfuse, on 12/09/2007, -1/+5I think the definition of a little crazy in this case is 'behaviour that people who are recovering from indoctrination exhibit'. After your spirit has been broken and your thought processes reshaped it's going to take quite a while to recover to a normal state - you essentially have to relearn how to be yourself. That isn't 'being different' that's being 'you'.
- MenDAKE, on 12/08/2007, -12/+3What's your definition of "a little crazy at times"? Different from the mainstream? Overly religious? Depressed? Perhaps Scientology did mess him up, but all too often I've seen people get branded as insane simply because they chose to be different.
- ausfahrt, on 12/08/2007, -5/+27it's freaky. check out scientology's crazy followers on youtube.com. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPol_m8wm8Y
- colobikeguy, on 12/08/2007, -3/+3you should see them at the time square station in nyc.... this red headed lady is there... every day.. trying to give people scientology cards... no big deal... but there is something wrong with living your life handing out pieces of paper to people... ah *****... that would include bank tellers, cashiers, .. hmmmm.... nevermind.
- sandman979, on 12/08/2007, -2/+3Lame comment to say the least. At least bank tellers and cashiers do it for money. Scientology idiots do it for free so their fake church's ass get richer.
- cquinnd, on 12/08/2007, -1/+4When I go to my bank, the pieces of paper the teller hands me are have pictures of presidents on them, and can be used to get other things, like food or a place to live.
- MenDAKE, on 12/08/2007, -2/+0Check out the Internet's crazy followers on youtube.
- hollygolitely, on 12/08/2007, -0/+1umm...
- JoeVet, on 12/08/2007, -1/+2Typical actions of a cult. Cults like Scientology are afraid of cameras and public scrutiny. If everyone knew what they did they would lose all hope of recruiting more victims so instead of having public debate they hide and worse they attack anyone who dares expose them for what they are. It is truly unfortunate that seemingly educated people like John Trovolta can't see through the cult and its effects on members. Say what you want about Christianity/Islam/Judeism/Hinduism...they do not purposely destroy families just to get money from their victims. Scientology has no morals at all when money are concerned.
- Gozchev, on 12/09/2007, -2/+0I am honestly scared. Not like "wow, this is stupid, what has the world come to?" scared. I'm talking "holy *****" scared. This is so deep-rooted and messed up I don't even know what to...anything....crap....well....Germany has a good start. Let's hope that everyone else follows suit.
- colobikeguy, on 12/08/2007, -3/+3you should see them at the time square station in nyc.... this red headed lady is there... every day.. trying to give people scientology cards... no big deal... but there is something wrong with living your life handing out pieces of paper to people... ah *****... that would include bank tellers, cashiers, .. hmmmm.... nevermind.
- seanhive, on 12/08/2007, -10/+15I say if people want to base their lives off of sci fi novels they can go right ahead. "It's not a religion, it's a pyramid scheme," as the first poster said. It's not a militant belief and it poses no threat, let these gullible fools be themselves.
I am my own devil's advocate, because I know someone's gonna say the bible is a sci fi novel too, which is funny.
Lighten up Germany!- Breepee, on 12/08/2007, -2/+5And then they end up in the gutter with no money, and guess who's paying welfare then?
The state has a few responsibilities, one of them is to stop moneyleecher like the Scientology-church top people.- GrassrootsNinja, on 12/08/2007, -4/+4Maybe there's something wrong with the welfare system then? People should have the right to screw themselves financially, and others should be free from the obligation of picking up the pieces afterwards.
- Breepee, on 12/08/2007, -0/+1Unlike Americans, we see that leaving poor people in the gutter will cost you, no matter what. If you don't do anything, you're gonna theft and crime, if you help them you can make good taxpayers out of them.
- GrassrootsNinja, on 12/08/2007, -4/+4Maybe there's something wrong with the welfare system then? People should have the right to screw themselves financially, and others should be free from the obligation of picking up the pieces afterwards.
- Vektuz, on 12/08/2007, -2/+7Actually, scientology is definitely a militant belief. It trains members into an "us or them" approach, and has the stance that once someone has been declared against the church, anything goes in order to eradicate them.
- WaltDismal, on 12/08/2007, -0/+2That's true, and Scientology actively supports breaking the law when pursuing enemies. (There's lots of history on their doing that.) That seems to make them a form of terrorist organization regardless of their hiding behind claiming to be a religion. The German government has to the right to ban a terrorist organization. And yet the Scientologists also claim the protection of law on their copyrighted religious materials. Hypocrites at the least, and a dangerous cult at the worst.
- anogenic, on 12/08/2007, -1/+1They should just ban them from using the word "church"
- shazbotben, on 12/09/2007, -0/+2I think it would actually be more appropriate to file the bible under 'fantasy'.
- Syntaxis, on 12/09/2007, -0/+1No threat? Those people will teach their children the "teachings" of their "religion", too. They sue anyone who dares to offend their religion. They are ***** crazy and should be treated as the crazy cult they are.
- Breepee, on 12/08/2007, -2/+5And then they end up in the gutter with no money, and guess who's paying welfare then?
- ConanTL, on 12/08/2007, -7/+3As much as I would like to see this, I doubt it will happen. This is going to fail just like the repeated attempts to ban the NPD.
- bono4u, on 12/09/2007, -0/+1Hope dies at the end
- mojotooth, on 12/09/2007, -0/+2If the Newark Police Department is banned, there's gonna be some LOOTING in Jersey...
- flink405, on 12/08/2007, -3/+14Does that mean that all Tom Cruise and John Travolta films will be banned from Germany, too?
- colobikeguy, on 12/08/2007, -1/+5yes... i just got off the phone with the German Consular and he says they have both of them on their country entry database. He said if they try to get into the country, they will be taken into another room where they will be strapped to a chair and forced to mate with aliens ...
- bono4u, on 12/09/2007, -0/+1perhaps it is enough to blacken them out in the films and change the voice of the translater
- mushroomqueen, on 12/09/2007, -0/+2We can only hope.
- Gryph1, on 12/09/2007, -0/+2I find it very convenient this is happening when a film about Hitler with Tom Cruise is releasing soon. We all know Germany is Hitler Ban Happy.
Don't get me wrong I loathe Tom Cruise and Scientology, but the coincidence is hilarious.
- TriplePlay2425, on 12/08/2007, -7/+4I hate to say that I do think it's probably wrong (unless they tell what exactly it conflicts with in their constitution), but I am kinda glad that this is helping to get rid of that stupid, ridiculous thing.
- anarchytv, on 12/08/2007, -7/+86Planet Earth moves to ban Scientolgy
- colobikeguy, on 12/08/2007, -0/+13motion seconded.
- Chrisfromdevon, on 12/08/2007, -2/+5and again!
- credence, on 12/08/2007, -0/+3Lord Xeno does not approve
- Gozchev, on 12/09/2007, -0/+1and again!
- Chrisfromdevon, on 12/08/2007, -2/+5and again!
- colobikeguy, on 12/08/2007, -0/+13motion seconded.
- TrevorPace, on 12/08/2007, -7/+6Good.
- nofx1510, on 12/08/2007, -2/+5I love Scientology.... Oh wait sorry about that it happens sometimes after my run in with Travolta.
- GodIsntReal, on 12/08/2007, -11/+3Sweet, I hope they ban every other religion too. Errr i mean cult.
- dets, on 12/08/2007, -8/+97Guys, please stop calling Scientology a religion. it was started by a failed science fiction writer who's own son dennouces him as a megalomaniac.
There is nothing religious about Scientology, not one bit.- wonderworm, on 12/09/2007, -1/+4Well, the "bible" was created by a group of politically powerful priests 400 years post Jesus who wanted to change the history of a mortal Jesus to that of a supernatural spirit so they could gain even more political power over people's free will.
It's not the failed science fiction writer I'd be worried about.
- wonderworm, on 12/09/2007, -1/+4Well, the "bible" was created by a group of politically powerful priests 400 years post Jesus who wanted to change the history of a mortal Jesus to that of a supernatural spirit so they could gain even more political power over people's free will.
- jimmiss, on 12/08/2007, -6/+93I think the germans know a crazy cult when they see one.
- wayfarer72, on 12/08/2007, -14/+3Yep, just like they did when they sought to ban the Jews. Smart comment, keep it up.
- MenDAKE, on 12/08/2007, -10/+1LOL -- I was going to say nearly the same thing.
- EndersGame, on 12/08/2007, -1/+9*wooooooooosh* Thats the sound of jimmiss' post going way over your heads.
- TheLastFreeMan, on 12/09/2007, -0/+4See this is what happens when you leave out "/sarcasm".
- youbequiet, on 12/08/2007, -1/+0how did we stave off godwin this long?
- bono4u, on 12/09/2007, -0/+1@jimmiss first i thought your were right but then i read the interpretations of wayfarer72 and have to admit, no we are not a genetically enhanced super-race which can see/notice the evil only because of looking into their eyes ;)
- wayfarer72, on 12/08/2007, -14/+3Yep, just like they did when they sought to ban the Jews. Smart comment, keep it up.
- samuraiswordsmn, on 12/08/2007, -10/+7HAIL XENU!!!!!!!!!!11
- Frostman3D, on 12/08/2007, -16/+6At first I was like. YAY! ***** SCIENTOLOGY!!! THen, I thought.... This is wrong. Why are they banning a religion? This is scary.
- jellygraph, on 12/08/2007, -4/+3Whats wrong with banning a "religion" (its not a religion anyways, nevertheless)?
Theres a difference between banning a belief and an organized religion / cult. No one is talking about banning a belief, but only the organized cult.- Singularitarian, on 12/08/2007, -1/+4Did you really just say, "what's wrong with banning a religion?" ??? What's wrong with the government controlling the way people live? What's wrong with authoritarianism? What's wrong with denying freedom of choice? What's wrong with slavery?
- digioi, on 12/09/2007, -0/+1While banning is wrong ... i loved you other questions why ... it reminds me of how religion is.
- Singularitarian, on 12/08/2007, -1/+4Did you really just say, "what's wrong with banning a religion?" ??? What's wrong with the government controlling the way people live? What's wrong with authoritarianism? What's wrong with denying freedom of choice? What's wrong with slavery?
- jellygraph, on 12/08/2007, -4/+3Whats wrong with banning a "religion" (its not a religion anyways, nevertheless)?
- monkeyrun, on 12/08/2007, -1/+6Bad strategy.
If they start their religion in China (e.g. Fa lun gong), imagine the street cred they'll be able to get from being banned by the Chinese Government.- tankd0g, on 12/09/2007, -1/+1They wouldn't give up the necessary percentage to the Chinese gov't to open up shop there.
- alexanEmpire, on 12/08/2007, -9/+1Deutschland Deutschland über alles!
- bono4u, on 12/09/2007, -0/+2Ich hasse diese Neo-Nazi Schwachköpfe.
I hate these neo-nazi retards.- alexanEmpire, on 12/11/2007, -0/+1God damn, you're retarded.
- alexanEmpire, on 12/11/2007, -1/+1It's the first line in the German National Anthem, you ***** retards. Once again, thanks for falling for the trap. It's amazing how you can avoid those if you just learn to take time to fact check and read.
- bono4u, on 12/09/2007, -0/+2Ich hasse diese Neo-Nazi Schwachköpfe.
- tekiek, on 12/08/2007, -29/+28I love how catholics think "my cult is better than yours"
- falafelkiosken, on 12/08/2007, -3/+12aren't most Germans protestants?
- bono4u, on 12/09/2007, -0/+1I am not quite sure, but surly not in bavaria which is next to austria.
- nofx1510, on 12/08/2007, -4/+6Every other religion doesn't force you to pay money to become a "better person" You can be a practicing protestant or catholic without paying money. While they do ask for money yes they need to to survive most churches are in debt to the banks because they cant pay the bills. Maybe you should think before you comment.
- OfficeSpacing, on 12/08/2007, -1/+4That doesn't mean overall that Christianity is any less stupid than Scientology. Win.
- Gozchev, on 12/09/2007, -2/+0but less fraudulent, Definately. Rematch
- OfficeSpacing, on 12/08/2007, -1/+4That doesn't mean overall that Christianity is any less stupid than Scientology. Win.
- anononon, on 12/09/2007, -3/+3My god has a bigger dick than your god.
(apologies to Carlin)
- falafelkiosken, on 12/08/2007, -3/+12aren't most Germans protestants?
- JSolo, on 12/08/2007, -3/+30Germany is going to be the first target for Xenu when he is released from his prison. My German friends - you have been warned.
- cquinnd, on 12/08/2007, -1/+2Wasn't Xenu imprisoned for being against what the Scientologists are trying to do? (Or rather, the scientologists are trying to fix what Xenu did in the first place).
Germany would go to the top of Xenu's friends list.- wonderworm, on 12/09/2007, -0/+1Whatever, I have been told by GOD, the Flying Spaghetti Monster that she will personally protect all Germans from the evil Xenu and his co-propagators of endlessly irrational thought, the church.
Spaghetti has your back!
- wonderworm, on 12/09/2007, -0/+1Whatever, I have been told by GOD, the Flying Spaghetti Monster that she will personally protect all Germans from the evil Xenu and his co-propagators of endlessly irrational thought, the church.
- megarobotguy, on 12/09/2007, -0/+1Since you bought that up. I have a very interesting question for the so-called scientologists that are probably reading this. Why is it that in every documentary you see about scicentologist, they get VERY turned of(piss off is more like it) when someone ask them about Xenu? Who is your real god, Ron Howard or Xenu?
- megarobotguy, on 12/09/2007, -1/+1Opps, L Ron Hubbard.
- cquinnd, on 12/08/2007, -1/+2Wasn't Xenu imprisoned for being against what the Scientologists are trying to do? (Or rather, the scientologists are trying to fix what Xenu did in the first place).
- MenDAKE, on 12/08/2007, -15/+5I don't care much for Scientology, but those of you who automatically assume most fringe religious groups are evil brainwashing cults are...well...brainwashed by the media.
- cquinnd, on 12/08/2007, -1/+6google operation clambake.
Who said we were assuming anything about other fringe religious groups?
- cquinnd, on 12/08/2007, -1/+6google operation clambake.
- jmpeagle, on 12/08/2007, -6/+15it's called freedom of association jackasses.....god damn the whole world is going nuts.
- Napoleone, on 12/08/2007, -4/+11Let them. Digg members are quite inconsistent about the Constitution they promise to defend at all costs. Those who would ban Scientology because it offends them are on equal footing with the hypocrisy of any church.
- bono4u, on 12/09/2007, -0/+2It sounds as you would know the constitution very well thats rare on digg.com. May i ask which constitution from which country?
- Vektuz, on 12/08/2007, -5/+4They dont appear to want to ban anything except the organization itself. Ie the money-taking head of it. You're still welcome, in germany, to do your auditing, and so on, you just can't be associated with the cult or funnel your money to it.
- bono4u, on 12/09/2007, -0/+1and they don't have the tax vantages anymore
- frieddonuts, on 12/08/2007, -2/+3And Scientology is not some supermanipulative cult...they're one of the most unpopular organizations out there. It's like banning those homophobic funeral protesters- is it worth giving them the attention?
- babar77, on 12/08/2007, -3/+2Yes Scientology is super-manipulative, no it's not a cult - it's organized crime. Banning them would be like banning the Mob - and would you know, they are banned.
- tyaron, on 12/08/2007, -5/+4You know, I'm all for freedom of association and the Constitution. Hell, I carry my own copy with me wherever I go, but there's one little thing that you should remember before you mention those things in this case...THIS IS IN *****' GERMANY!!! Not the U.S. Believe it or not, your laws and political ideals aren't like exports that can be dumped on the market place of ideas just cause you think they're so wonderful. So here's a step-by-step process for not being stupid: Step 1. Pull Head Out of Ass, Step 2. Take A Comparative Politics Course and Learn About the German "Basic Law", Step 3. Shut The ***** Up and the Grown Ups Talk. Thank you, you dumbass libertarian, Ron Paul-loving, sack of brainless *****.
Man that felt good.- bono4u, on 12/09/2007, -1/+1i wouldn't have said it as drastic but i like the part "THIS IS IN GOOD OLD GERMANY!!! Not the U.S. Believe it or not, your laws and political ideals aren't like exports that can be dumpe
- Napoleone, on 12/08/2007, -4/+11Let them. Digg members are quite inconsistent about the Constitution they promise to defend at all costs. Those who would ban Scientology because it offends them are on equal footing with the hypocrisy of any church.