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Georgians Beg the West: We Helped in Iraq - Now Help Us
timesonline.co.uk — As a Russian jet bombed fields around his village, Djimali Avago, a Georgian farmer, asked me: “Why won’t America and Nato help us? If they won’t help us now, why did we help them in Iraq?” A similar sense of betrayal coursed through the conversations of many Georgians here yesterday as their troops retreated under shellfire.
MakiMaki- 1429 diggs
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- QsheiK, on 08/10/2008, -70/+157I've quoted this before, but I'll quote it again:
"The only thing more dangerous than being America's enemy is being America's ally." - Eric Margolis- strictnein, on 08/11/2008, -24/+66That's a Kissinger quote and it's a worthless quote.
- mcla007, on 08/11/2008, -33/+13You might want to enlighten us why it's a worthless quote...
- strictnein, on 08/11/2008, -7/+82Because it's demonstrably false:
UK
Japan
Germany
Three countries that have fared better as an ally of the US than as an enemy. More recent times:
South Korea
Kuwait
Saudi Arabia (whether this is beneficial to the US is another question)
Israel
Poland
How has India and China been negatively affected by their increasing positive relationships with the US? How has Canada and Mexico? What "dangerous" things have ever happened to Canada?
The tougher question is which ally is it that has fared worse because of its relationship with the US? - Sumtin2Say, on 08/11/2008, -4/+4What about when we are forced to choose between allies and the smaller, less significant ally gets ignored because we don't want to risk conflict with the bigger one? We just send a sternly worded letter to the bigger one.
- humperdeath, on 08/11/2008, -3/+1Well, there is only one thing worse that being talked about, and that is NOT being talked about! (That was Wilde)
- jabberwolf, on 08/11/2008, -0/+2Sumtin2Say I'm sure that's what Poland said in ww2 ?
And I'm sure that's what all the sattelite countries of the USSR said before they were invaded. - hashfail, on 08/11/2008, -0/+1+ Kosovo.
- mnky9800n, on 08/11/2008, -0/+0@Sumtin2Say: It is called making a tough decision and right now, our relations with Russia are more important than those with Georgia.
- TheGuruStud, on 08/11/2008, -1/+2I guess you forgot about Iraq and Afghanistan (and I'm sure there's other tiny countries gettin screwed).
When the US Govt no longer needs your govt's services and has something to gain from its failure, they will act upon it.
And DO NOT give any BS about them not being allies (well quasi allies, like puppets is true). The US did not pump BILLIONS into them to be actual enemies. To fund both sides for further profit of the rich, yes, but that only demonstrates that being an ally can get you into serious trouble. - ViSHiX, on 08/12/2008, -1/+2Countries that have fared worse:
Pakistan (now, not before)
Afghanistan
Iraq
Georgia - mchisari, on 08/12/2008, -1/+2Chile
- VinBea, on 08/11/2008, -13/+13In all fairness to the American people, of which some 90% disapprove of the current congress - with their approval rating for King George being not that much better - those ruling out of WDC; are just that: ruling over America with impunity...it is this same government ruling over us out of DC, that has created this mess in which Kissinger (who kisses the ass of Lord Rothschild) can tout such BS as this...but having gone full circle, when it comes down to the tire meeting the road, Americans really are to blame because none of these rulers out of DC have been hung, or put away for life in prison for treason and being traitors...American's don't trust their own Government; why should the Georgians which truly was their first mistake to trust anything coming out of Washington DC!
- emkaysmith, on 08/11/2008, -10/+2Illiterate antisemitic drivel.
- Demener, on 08/11/2008, -1/+8Your misuse of the word antisemitic shows your own illiteracy.
- RogerStrong, on 08/11/2008, -14/+43America could cure cancer, aids and hunger in one day, and Margolis would find some angle to denounce it as pure evil.
- urbandistrict, on 08/11/2008, -15/+6I don't see why people would digg your comment. It's absolutely ridiculous and contrived.
“Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things.” –Winston Churchill - DanQuist, on 08/11/2008, -1/+8@urbandistrict: way to take an excellent quote and take it completely out of context
- RogerStrong, on 08/11/2008, -0/+1@urbandistrict:
A statement like that *should* be ridiculous and contrived, but not in this case.
I happen to think that the Bush II presidency is an incompetant kleptocracy, but even I'm embarrassed by some of what Margolis writes. - publiclurker, on 08/11/2008, -1/+2Because if the current leadership has anything to do with it, the hunger problems would be fixed by giving people cancer, and the cancer cure would cost 2 million dollars a year, payable to whichever pharmaceutical company is the biggest contributer.
- urbandistrict, on 08/11/2008, -15/+6I don't see why people would digg your comment. It's absolutely ridiculous and contrived.
- hakz, on 08/11/2008, -17/+27There is no such thing as being America's ally, you're either their bitch or their enemy
- dkapuchino, on 08/11/2008, -5/+13Tell that to Russia during WWII.
- IglooBurner, on 08/11/2008, -2/+13There is no such thing as being Russia's ally, you're either their bitch or their enemy
- OC73, on 08/11/2008, -3/+9Dumb quote.
- ganjadude4391, on 08/11/2008, -8/+28In Georgia... Russia invades you!
- Rich711, on 08/11/2008, -14/+11Why don't they just send Barack Obama there to talk to them. I don't know what's going on there or why Russia would invade Atlanta but I'm sure if Barack could talk to them everything would get fixed.
- bainfu, on 08/11/2008, -0/+7My sarcasm meter must not be working, because I'm not getting a reliable reading from the above comment.
- RungeKutta, on 08/11/2008, -4/+1Nice try, but you're an idiot.
- jabberwolf, on 08/11/2008, -3/+4I think that was supposed to be sarcastic, and something Obama might actually say.
I'm digging it up because if sarcastic, is actually funny. - Rich711, on 08/11/2008, -1/+1How dare all of you!! There is nothing sarcastic about Barack Obama's public speaking abilities!! Stop being sacriliegious!!
- mnky9800n, on 08/11/2008, -3/+0Because it is not his job to do that, in fact, it is supposed to be illegal although Jimmy Carter likes to trump around the world "in the Name of the US of A".
- Rich711, on 08/12/2008, -1/+2Not, his job? Hellllooooo, he's president of the United States. Didn't you see his acceptance speech in German? You know, mnky9800n, millions of Americans died in the first world war to give you the right to vote you should at least respect their loss by being an informative voter.
- dennugsmello15, on 08/11/2008, -14/+9America is the best ally anyone could have.
- OwdenBowden, on 08/11/2008, -11/+6Well I found it amusing that when they Asked Obama about the crisis in Georgia he was quick to respond that he did not feel "the drought in Georgia was that serious because come the next big rain all will be well again".
- jabberwolf, on 08/11/2008, -3/+3And not being an American ally?
That simply gets you invaded earlier.
I think South Korea and Taiwan dont mind having the USA as an ally, do you?
Who else would stand up against any other invader?
Just at the moment, Russia is one of the largest countries WITH NUKES, that the USA really doesnt want to mess with unless they absolutely have to. - Kershalt, on 08/12/2008, -0/+1this area isnt there country in the first place and russia is sending troops in because georgia has basically ignored the region and allowed russian peacekeeping forces deal with the rebels and have just as much claim if not more on the population in the area. what this war is over is wether or not geargia is ready to be serious as a nation and stand united against the growing threat of being reabsorbed into Russia. Now i would be willing to be that while russia is responsible for there share of the destructions, that the majority of deaths and damage has been caused by geargians scorched earth policy of destroying there own cities with missle barages like previous posts have shown.
- strictnein, on 08/11/2008, -24/+66That's a Kissinger quote and it's a worthless quote.
- mcla007, on 08/11/2008, -31/+194“Why won’t America and Nato help us? If they won’t help us now, why did we help them in Iraq?”
I assume "sucker" is a word Georgians are not familiar with.- VinBea, on 08/11/2008, -25/+13In all fairness to Georgians, we've all been sucker punched by these global brotherhood of elites (Bushes are skull and bones - while Bill Clinton's a Rhodes Scholar) - none of this brotherhood are even attempting to hide their global power grab anymore...dominoes come to mind now!
- godseyeview, on 08/11/2008, -3/+2Exactly. People digging you down are Goyim.
- RungeKutta, on 08/11/2008, -1/+4What does "skull and bones" and Rhodes Scholar have to do with anything? We basically did this with the Hmong in Laos and Vietnam, but then we eventually brought them all here so they wouldn't be thrown in prison and/or executed.
Of course the US didn't invent this type of foreign police, we're just the ones currently using it because no one stops us - especially now that we don't have Russia as an equal opponent anymore.
- loveddevol, on 08/11/2008, -10/+4;_;
- megamod, on 08/11/2008, -16/+16Maybe if Georgians told Bush they have Oil?
- KMye, on 08/11/2008, -2/+10Why do you think we've been so supportive to them (until, perhaps now, at least)?
- borsaid, on 08/11/2008, -5/+6If they had oil we would have said they were harboring known terrorists and we would have sent in our own bombers and tanks a long time ago.
- seanof, on 08/11/2008, -1/+14As a matter of fact they do have oil and Bush knows about it. They have been giving America access to oil for a few years now.
- down4twenty, on 08/11/2008, -2/+3they do have oil, they were one of the top oil suppliers before the arabs got into the oil game. But the soviets ***** that up when USSR took control.
- megamod, on 08/11/2008, -2/+1I'll give you guys one more chance to figure out what I was doing without DIRECTLY saying it:
/msacras - CarzorStelatis, on 08/11/2008, -3/+1Er... they do. Georgia is home to two of the world's most crucial oil pipelines. Otherwise known as "The West's only source of oil that isn't from the Middle East or Russia".
- Clusterfrak, on 08/11/2008, -1/+2That Iraq war was such a good thing. No unforseen problems with owing aid to foriegn powers, no overstretched military, and all over the world people love us.
- KMye, on 08/12/2008, -0/+1@megamod
...hguoht ,yrevocer a ta tpmetta eciN .esac eht yllautca si drawrof gnittup yllacitsacras er'uoy gniht eht taht erawanu er'uoy nehw krow t'nseod msacraS - KMye, on 08/12/2008, -0/+1@Carzor
Except for Mexico, Canada, Venezuela, Norway, Nigera, etc. etc.
- AeroMerde, on 08/11/2008, -5/+12So, just so we're clear, you're for us attacking Russia mcla007? Otherwise, you're being hypocritical by implying we should do anything more than try to stop Russia diplomatically.
- forgottenhope, on 08/11/2008, -9/+3What is russia doing wrong? Georgians killed 1500 civilians the first day after they invaded with military force.
America has no place or business, period. Go back to threatening countries that dont have a standing army.
***** americans, stupid beyond belief. - Eezyville, on 08/11/2008, -5/+1***** foreigners, ignorant beyond belief.
- wicketr, on 08/11/2008, -0/+1America isn't getting involved. So why are we stupid? The only people that want America to get involved are hypocrites that don't control America.
- fuwath, on 08/12/2008, -0/+2I vote the United States does attack Russia. So I can watch Americans get their asses handed to them.
- forgottenhope, on 08/11/2008, -9/+3What is russia doing wrong? Georgians killed 1500 civilians the first day after they invaded with military force.
- boerema, on 08/11/2008, -14/+5Okay....we all realize that it is the Georgians that are in the wrong here, right? They invaded Russian land (for reasons that may have been okay for them, but aren't to the international community). They called for a cease-fire, then violated it, resulting in hundreds of civilian deaths. The Russians may have over-reacted to the Georgian military action, but it still stands as fact that the Russians are defending here.
- Indrius, on 08/11/2008, -3/+6You sound just like another Russian propaganda victim.
- boerema, on 08/11/2008, -12/+3You sound like another uninformed American. The land is legally Russian. That is that.
- jayjay80, on 08/11/2008, -1/+8Wtf are you talking about? Define which "Russian land" did the Georgians invade?
- Xansas, on 08/11/2008, -3/+4So the Russian response to Georgia causing 'hundreds' of civilian deaths is to cause thousands?
- Demener, on 08/11/2008, -1/+2@Xansas: Compare the number killed in 9/11 to the number that have died on both sides of the "War on Terror".
America is no better, and Bush telling another country not to invade someone else is pure hypocrisy. - EtherGnat, on 08/11/2008, -1/+1"You sound like another uninformed American. The land is legally Russian."
What? The disputed territory has been operating as a de facto independent nation for over 15 years (and a significant portion of the population carries Russian passports) but internationally it's still recognized as part of Georgia.
The Georgians definitely share the blame, and I'd even go so far as to say the notorious Saakashvili led government is primarily to blame, but it's not as clear cut as you claim it is.
- OC73, on 08/11/2008, -3/+6I'm sure mcla007 would be all for the US taking military action against Russia.
- iamthearm, on 08/11/2008, -2/+5Sucker isn't really the right term. I know you hate America and all but you should still be accurate. Georgians started the war. maybe that's why we are not getting involved. You also might want to give it more than just a few days. You never know. Maybe your wish will come true.
- wackattack, on 08/11/2008, -1/+5The US started the Iraq war as well, what's your point?
- Eezyville, on 08/11/2008, -0/+1The point is that we're finishing the war. Or at least we say we are.
- kuzotz, on 08/11/2008, -2/+2Well we aren't begging other countries to help us despite losing..
- ManOfVirtues, on 08/11/2008, -2/+3@Eezyville,
5 years, 3 months, 10 days since President Bush declared "Mission Accomplished" aboard the USS Abraham Lincoln.
So what is the definition of "Finishing"? - spaceddaisy, on 08/12/2008, -0/+1@kutotz Uhm yes you did, that's why our military is there too (Netherlands) and Georgians helped you too, as did many other allies
- iamthearm, on 08/12/2008, -0/+0A few points:
One: You don't care about helping Georgia. You want not helping Georgia to be a reason to damn the US. So, you have an agenda. How dare you bitch about the US not helping Georgia when you don't even care if we do help them.
Two: Only a few days have went by and you're already critizing the US for not helping. Acting like true American's wanting instant gratification.
Three: How in the world do you expect us to help Georgia when we are already fighting a war ourselves? Your kicking America while it's down. WTF is wrong w/ you?
There are MANY more reasons but since you have an agenda, it really doesn't matter.
- TherealObadiah, on 08/11/2008, -13/+7What about all the liberals screaming about the war in Iraq?? What about all of Europe supposedly hating us because we're warmongers?? Where are all the liberals now? Where are all the Huffington Post blogs about Vlad Putin and the evils of war and the invasion of a sovereign country?? Oh, that's right, liberals are hypocrites, and it's EASY to protest in a country that is free and won't crack your skull open or lace your food with poison for protesting.
- supaklaw, on 08/11/2008, -1/+8Uh because Georgia started it? Because they arrogantly assumed NATO and the US had their back... there's a short kid in every gang that pulls this stunt. Act all tough and then when they realize they don't have enough to back up their words they cry victim. Please, stop with your villainizing liberals and trying to make this into a political smear campaign. The Russians are war mongering again just like conservatives... but the Georgians are by NO MEANS "innocent" in this little encounter. We are going to help them out diplomatically but we have bigger fish to fry, they picked the wrong time to call in a favor.
- jessehadden, on 08/11/2008, -1/+2Dude, you've like, never been to a major protest in America, have you? There are huge ones all the time. They're never on the news. Neither are the images of cops smashing in the faces of those damned intolerable pacifists. Youtube has a good smattering of videos. Did you know that your tax dollars pay for undercover cops to "infiltrate" peace groups, to make sure their bake sales do not have a terrorist bent? Or that your money pays for undercover cops to pose as provocative protesters in a crowd, so that the uniformed cops can get on with the arrests?
By the way -- did you know that participating in major peace protests is a quick way of getting on America's no-fly list? But I'm sure that's different from what you were talking about. *wink* *nod* *cough-Kent State-cough* - beasty_dave_Mk2, on 08/11/2008, -0/+1I wonder who gave the Georgians "permission" to start this whole fiasco?? The military doesn't ever do things on a whim...Someone ordered this to start.
Knowing that the US was instrumental in allowing the invasion of Kuwait by Iraq in the 90's....Just wondering if the same now applies in this situation.
Sure we be a good time to drop a couple bunker busters in Tehran with everyone looking the other way...
America and Israel sure are pissed at Russia for arming Iran and Venezuela (to a certain degree..tractors and AK47 factories aren't exactly the the AA missiles Irans' about to be getting, but still...Chavez is still a major thorn in the side of the "west")
I'm just saying...the color coded terror warnings quit being a distraction years ago, now perhaps real events are being manipulated to allow for other more cataclysmic events to happen...
/takes off tinfoilhat
- nj10ii, on 08/11/2008, -2/+3Regardless of who started what, if it involves our allies our help doesn't necessarily mean we immediately deploy troops to the region. The weight of our diplomacy and political agendas will dictate the response. The US talking to Russia and imploring that it stop is a very good step, if they weren't our Allie do you think we would have bothered?
- headzoo, on 08/11/2008, -1/+22It's not that simple. That's like a friend helping paint your house, and then him asking you to kill someone for him. "What, I helped you, and now you won't help me?".
There's a big difference between Georgia helping out a little with Iraq, and us taking on Russia.- Gustomucho, on 08/11/2008, -4/+2You ask your friend if he wants to fill a spot on a raid for Molten Core, he joins.
Then he ask you to form a raid for Sunwell Plateau... " I helped you ! " - Demener, on 08/11/2008, -4/+3Your comparison is skewed. "Painting a house" is absolutely NOT comparable to sending thousands of troops to Iraq.
Look on the bright side, at least we won't be going to war with Iran while Russia is bombing Georgia. I mean only an idiot... oh wait...
- Gustomucho, on 08/11/2008, -4/+2You ask your friend if he wants to fill a spot on a raid for Molten Core, he joins.
- Eezyville, on 08/11/2008, -3/+1I don't remember asking for help Georgia.
- ManOfVirtues, on 08/11/2008, -0/+6I don't remember congress voting to declare War on Iraq.
- EllenO, on 08/11/2008, -1/+0Unbiased Statement : Well the reason the Administration uses is that Congress did indeed authorize the use of force against Iraq.
- thatsmyaibo, on 08/11/2008, -1/+4The problem is that this is a sticky situation. If we get into a war with Russia, we are going to have major problems. Lately Russia has been extremely crazy by doing things like claiming the arctic rift and invading small countries, I don't trust their nuclear capabilities. Putin will kill opposition and they have state controlled media. He has claimed over a thousand lives this week alone. We have to be careful when it comes to helping Georgia.
- jfran, on 08/11/2008, -1/+2I still feel extremely bad for the georgian people to have to fear such a strong ruler and have such a stupid leader.
- brundlefly76, on 08/11/2008, -1/+6I am disgusted with the Iraq war, but these two situations are in NO WAY comparable - also, the US has provided MILLIONS of dollars of military aid to the Georgians.
In Iraq, we formed a coalition and discussed the situation with our allies - some chose to help us, some chose not to - but the choice was theirs BEFOREHAND.
Georgia did not discuss starting a ***** shooting war with Russia with ANYONE - they just started shooting! It was a suicidal and maniacal thing to do, and there is no way in hell the US should risk the 19 years of careful detente with a nuclear superpower over Georgia's completely irresponsible actions.
The stakes for the US, and the world, over the US getting involved in this territorial dispute massively eclipse the risk the Georgians made in sending troops to Iraq.
Similarly, I don't think it would be reasonable for us to launch a cruise missile into China, get into a full-blown war, and then insist the French help us since we liberated them in WWII. - iamthearm, on 08/12/2008, -0/+0It's hard to believe this many people dug your ignorant comment.Your a perfect example as to why you should not take what most diggers say into consideration.
- VinBea, on 08/11/2008, -25/+13In all fairness to Georgians, we've all been sucker punched by these global brotherhood of elites (Bushes are skull and bones - while Bill Clinton's a Rhodes Scholar) - none of this brotherhood are even attempting to hide their global power grab anymore...dominoes come to mind now!
- VinBea, on 08/11/2008, -35/+15If the last three presidents have taught us anything, it taught us we can't trust elites like skull and bones - the two Bushes - or elites like Rhodes Scholars Bill Clinton to do the right thing for the right reasons, anytime.
For a saw-buck - or a bowl of porage - each global elite would sell their mother for the right price.
Hey, but look on the bright side, Poppa Bush along with King George just opened a new US Embassy in Communist China!- cheezwhip, on 08/11/2008, -6/+7Here, I think you forgot something:
http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/7897/kutchersid ... - godseyeview, on 08/11/2008, -0/+3yup you are exactly right. The Skull n Bones crosses is symbolic of the fraternity because they will double-cross anyone to gain more power.
- Kershalt, on 08/12/2008, -0/+1yes this is bushes fault your a political expert because bush made them are allies..... wtf is wrong with you people? he declares war on a nation whose putting its own people into plastic shredders and you complain he doesnt declare war on behalf of a nation who is bombing its own cities to keep them out of enemy hands... ? do you guys just want to have someone to blame all the worlds problems on one man and score a couple of kuddos on a random site? it seams that way to me.
- cheezwhip, on 08/11/2008, -6/+7Here, I think you forgot something:
- flogistan, on 08/11/2008, -35/+13Georgia's leadership are a bunch of turncoat ass clown neocons. They're helping us in the illegal war in iraq because they're necons. They're trying to start world war three by blowing people up unprovoked, and now, they're getting dumped on because they have no loyalty or interest in their own people. Screw georgia.
- Beveridge89, on 08/11/2008, -3/+3Congratulations on managing to find new depths of stupidity for the application of the label neocon. You might be surprised to learn it doesn't mean 'people who do stuff you disagree with' or 'whatever you don't like'.
In what sense was the Georgian response unprovoked? Russia has been arming the seperatists for years, and if you care to look hard enough you can find videos of the seperatists firing upon Georgian troops just last week. You can argue about the proportionality of the response, but it is by no means unprovoked. - mvlazysusan, on 08/11/2008, -0/+1flogistan flogistan
the arioplain taking the flack is the one on target
like beveridge8 talks about(( Georgian response unprovoked))
the geogergiens didn't (respond) they are the ones who fired the first shot, and at blue hat U.N. PECEKEPERS
- Beveridge89, on 08/11/2008, -3/+3Congratulations on managing to find new depths of stupidity for the application of the label neocon. You might be surprised to learn it doesn't mean 'people who do stuff you disagree with' or 'whatever you don't like'.
- chrislongridge, on 08/11/2008, -32/+120“Why won’t America and Nato help us? If they won’t help us now, why did we help them in Iraq?”
Because Georgia decided to invade without good reason. Oh... wait...- atdigg, on 08/11/2008, -27/+44Invaded itself? Russians are in Georgia, Georgians are in Georgia, do the math who is the aggressor.
- DCMacHead, on 08/11/2008, -8/+37read up a little on it...i thought that, too, but this section of georgia wanted to be part of russia for over 10 years...they've had votes, etc. on the issue.
the russians were justified initially, but they went beyond the scope of what was legitimate when they started to invade the rest of georgia) - siszam, on 08/11/2008, -23/+16The U.S. has been in Georgia since 2002. You read up on that. Russia did not attack Georgia. Georgia attacked Russia first and then Russia defended itself. Have you read any articles or are you just skimming the misleading headlines?
- strictnein, on 08/11/2008, -9/+57Russia defended itself by bombing civilians and ports outside of the disputed zone? That's straight out of Pravda.
- DigzDogg, on 08/11/2008, -9/+8>Russians are in Georgia, Georgians are in Georgia, do the math who is the aggressor.
Serbians in Serbia and Nato in Serbia, do the math who is the aggressor... Who said "genocide", "ethnic cleanings", "mass murder of civilians"? - DigzDogg, on 08/11/2008, -6/+7>Russia defended itself by bombing civilians and ports outside of the disputed zone? That's straight out of >Pravda.
Nato was bombing Belgrdad which is 400Km away from Bosina for certain reason I assume... - boerema, on 08/11/2008, -4/+10No...I think you misread the story. They are attacking military positions while the Georgian army is sending artillery into residential areas, hospitals, and the such. And they did that during a cease-fire agreement that they themselves asked for.
- ivanmarsh, on 08/11/2008, -3/+9The side whose minister of defense admitted firing the first shot.
Here's a good tip... don't invade Russia, they don't react kindly to that sort of thing. - Sumtin2Say, on 08/11/2008, -2/+7@DCMacHead
"but this section of georgia wanted to be part of russia for over 10 years...they've had votes, etc. on the issue."
Hmmm. Maybe we should have let the confederate states go then. Much revered and oft quoted Lincoln thought otherwise. - KMye, on 08/11/2008, -3/+3@strictnein
They're not dropping bombs, they're airlifting breadbaskets to the starving Georgians... - boerema, on 08/11/2008, -5/+6I don't get any anyone who says Georgia invaded is getting buried. Quick! I think the Russians are right to defend their land! Bury this comment as far as you can!
- Otto, on 08/11/2008, -2/+6@Sumtin2Say: Yes, in point of fact, they should have. Lincoln was the worst enemy to the Constitution that this country ever had. His illegal war is directly responsible for 95% of the political problems we face today.
- ORBAT, on 08/11/2008, -0/+2@KMye: It's sad nobody's getting your reference.
During WW 2, Russians claimed to be airlifting bread baskets into Finland when they were actually clusterbombing the ***** out of Helsinki.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov_bread_basket - alfa5vodka, on 08/11/2008, -2/+0Wow your ***** stupid.
- Kershalt, on 08/12/2008, -0/+2So because these people were born inside the borders of a nation they have no right to want to leave that nation? if the people vote to change the goverment and form there own or join another country that should be there right. why do peopl follow the rules and laws made by people long dead and proven to be just as immoral as those in charge now?
- DCMacHead, on 08/11/2008, -8/+37read up a little on it...i thought that, too, but this section of georgia wanted to be part of russia for over 10 years...they've had votes, etc. on the issue.
- geoken, on 08/11/2008, -8/+37How can you accept the status of Georgia as a legitimate country, while not accepting the autonomy of Ossetia?
Basically Georgia is allowed to say "We don't want to be part of Russia" and they're not part of Russia, but when Ossetia says "We don't want to be part of Georgia" it's too bad for them and they better shut up or Georgia will bombard their capitol?- dkapuchino, on 08/11/2008, -7/+21Ossetia is historically Georgia. Ossetia has been part of Georgia before the Ossetians even came and settled that land.
NOT EVEN RUSSIA recognizes Ossetia as an independent state. Ossetia is just an excuse to invade Georgia. - geoken, on 08/11/2008, -2/+14Who cares about history? Quebec is historically part of Canada, if they voted in the referendum to separate would Canada be allowed to shoot rockets in to downtown Montreal?
- tenchi71, on 08/11/2008, -4/+8I'm not Canadian so I can't say I am familiar with it's laws, but I would think that if the referendum was only held in Quebec, and considered illegal and not valid at the federal level, then yes, the Federal government would have the right to protect the union by using force. Or at least I would think so. See the American Civil War or any other war for independence.
- dkapuchino, on 08/11/2008, -1/+8Things don't work like that. You don't immigrate to a country, and then conveniently decide to turn the land the country allowed you to settle in into a new country. Either way, these things need to be accepted by the international community. A new country means a new UN member, a new country to hold diplomatic relations with. South ossetia has 60K people. You don't create a new country with 60K people.
- geoken, on 08/11/2008, -1/+4Yes it was only held in Quebec (why would I, a person living in Ontario, have any say whether or not they wanted to be part of the country?)
- rthakidn, on 08/11/2008, -0/+16You my friend are ignorant. Russia and Georgia are/were equals, as states, in the former Soviet Union as were many other "state". To say Georgia doesn't want to be part of Russia is like saying Oregon doesn't want to be part of California (not that I'd blame them). In my comparison, Ossentia would be equivelant to Portland, but now California wants it. So California is encouraging Portlandites to be part of CA but Oregon will not let it happen. God, people who have no grasp of history should not comment here.
- geoken, on 08/11/2008, -1/+1And guess what happens when Oregon decides they want to bombard Portland.
- swatter22, on 08/11/2008, -0/+1You should keep in mind that something called the collapse of the Soviet Union happened in the early 90's :)
South Ossetia as we know it now was created within the Soviet Union, as a part of Georgia (which was by itself a part of the SU). When the union collapsed, South Ossetia sought independence just like Georgia along with a few other states. Back then maps were redrawn.
Basically what i am trying to say is that you cant just compare this situation to a break away within a long time established country like the US or Canada. - EtherGnat, on 08/11/2008, -0/+2@geoken: "And guess what happens when Oregon decides they want to bombard Portland."
Ah, but it would be a bit different if;
1. All of Oregon was until recently a territory of Canada
2. Portland had been operating autonomously from Oregon for 15 years
3. Most Portlanders considered themselves Canadian and had Canadian passports. - angeland8, on 08/11/2008, -0/+2What's this all is about? Does anybody really think South Ossetia will ever be with Georgia after what they've done?
And believe me Ossetia is not a 'historical Georgian region' or whatever you call it. - Kershalt, on 08/12/2008, -0/+1uhm this is pissing me off more and more. people get it in your heads war isnt about rules or being fair if a nation is haveing problems and another country comes over and takes the oppertunity to sieze the land owell thats how the world works. if you dont like whats going on over there buy a gun move over to the otherside of the world and take matters into your own hands dont expect a nation to drop its world wide affairs and defend a nations holding in an area that doesnt want to be apart of that nation? this is how world wars start one ally asks for help and when they get help the otherside needs help and soon all the allies of both nations are rdy to clash.
- DarthTater, on 08/12/2008, -0/+1@ dkapuchinodkapuchino :"Things don't work like that. You don't immigrate to a country, and then conveniently decide to turn the land the country allowed you to settle in into a new country."
I'm sorry to say that things do work like that. Just an example, from wikipedia:
"The area known as Alta California was colonized by the Spanish Empire beginning in the late 18th century. It and the rest of Mexico became an independent republic in 1821. In 1846 California broke away from Mexico, and after the Mexican-American War, Mexico ceded California to the United States. California was admitted to the United States on September 9, 1850."
- dkapuchino, on 08/11/2008, -7/+21Ossetia is historically Georgia. Ossetia has been part of Georgia before the Ossetians even came and settled that land.
- ivanmarsh, on 08/11/2008, -2/+0Yeah... It kind of hurts to think about doesn't it.
- dcstriker, on 08/11/2008, -3/+7HA HA!!! that's what NATO gets for letting Kosovo have independence!! Now every shi*t-hole province will want to separate from their country !!
- MxM111, on 08/12/2008, -0/+1"Why won’t America and Nato help us? "
Because Bush can't find Georgia on the map. At least not the right one.
- atdigg, on 08/11/2008, -27/+44Invaded itself? Russians are in Georgia, Georgians are in Georgia, do the math who is the aggressor.
- flogistan, on 08/11/2008, -29/+49The guy leading this country is doing exactly what castro did during the cuban missile crisis. He's got personal vendettas against russia. He's so screwed in the head that he essentially attacked in a situation that he had no chance of winning. It's the same situation castro would have been in if he would have launched one of those missiles into the United states. Everyone in Cuba would have died, but Castro didn't care. He just wanted to start world war three to get back at his personal enemies. That's exactly what georgia is doing to the united states right now. Unfortunately in this case, I think neoconservatives actually want this conflict to expand and are behind georgias actions.
- kratsnitram, on 08/11/2008, -4/+15This is not even remotely accurate. To suggest that Castro wanted to launch missiles against the US is not just inaccurate, it is ludicrous. I don't disagree with your comment regarding the Neocons, but your comments about Castro and the missile crisis are simply incorrect.
- anaesthetica, on 08/12/2008, -0/+2Actually, he is correct that Castro wanted to launch nuclear weapons at the United States before they were removed from his country. He penned an editorial urging Cuba to “walk by the path of liberation even when it may cost millions of atomic victims.”
Here's the citation:
R. Craig Nation, Black Earth, Red Star: A History of Soviet Security Policy, 1917-1991 (Ithaca, NY: Cornell University Press) p. 238.
- anaesthetica, on 08/12/2008, -0/+2Actually, he is correct that Castro wanted to launch nuclear weapons at the United States before they were removed from his country. He penned an editorial urging Cuba to “walk by the path of liberation even when it may cost millions of atomic victims.”
- emkaysmith, on 08/11/2008, -5/+15Castro didn't possess a single freaking nuke -- the Russians did. They wanted to use Cuba as a really big launching platform, and Cuba was dependent on Soviet aid (thanks to the idiotic U.S. embargo . . .), so Castro was reduced to saying "Yes sir, no sir," and licking a lot of boots.
I'm not crazy about Georgia -- or any other gang of slavs -- but this is all on Russia's head. Putin wants to eradicate Georgia, simple as that. The Ukraine is next. Another decade of that, and the old Soviet empire will have been reconstituted with Czar Vladimir at its head.
You guys heard the quote from the Kremlin this morning, didn't you? "Russia has been the only force for stability in the Caucasus for the past two hundred years."- kuzotz, on 08/11/2008, -0/+1I don't care. Isn't the Caucasus mountains the birthplace of what is now known as Indo-Europeans?
- MxM111, on 08/12/2008, -0/+1"You guys heard the quote from the Kremlin this morning, didn't you? "Russia has been the only force for stability in the Caucasus for the past two hundred years."
You may dispute that, but there is a lot of truth in it.
- wiggles, on 08/11/2008, -1/+7You had me right up to that last sentence. The neocons want to use the US military to increase US influence in the third world, but not even they are short sighted enough to get into a land war with Russia over an indefensible country in the caucasus.
And as it's all about spreading US influence, since Georgia has been in the favor of the US, Russia is trying to teach its former Soviet states what happens when you choose the US over Russia.- neozeed, on 08/11/2008, -0/+3Not to mention what happens when you kill 1500 people who carry Russian Passports.
- Gerz1219, on 08/11/2008, -1/+4Russia issued those passports, in part, to provoke Georgia into war. This whole episode is part of a deliberate plan to create instability within a former Soviet state that leaned a little too far to the west. If Georgia had let South Ossetia secede without a fight, the entire country would have begun crumbling. It's the same reason the Russians have fought to hold on to Chechnya for almost 20 years -- once one ethnic group declares autonomy, the rest get ideas.
The Soviet empire is about to reassemble like the T-1000. This is not a good thing and Russia is not the victim. - wiggles, on 08/11/2008, -1/+4History tells us that the Russians could give a ***** about 1500 of its citizens. In wartime, Russians have never had qualms about the expendability of its peasants. It's all about power and control. They threw peasants with pitchforks at Hitler's troops. They killed 35 million of their own citizens just because Stalin didn't like them. Their using Georgia as a punching bag has nothing to do with those 1500 people, except for using them as a pretext to war.
- seanof, on 08/11/2008, -0/+1The cold war was all about mutually assured destruction. The idea was to use fundamentally offensive weapons for deterrence.
- kratsnitram, on 08/11/2008, -4/+15This is not even remotely accurate. To suggest that Castro wanted to launch missiles against the US is not just inaccurate, it is ludicrous. I don't disagree with your comment regarding the Neocons, but your comments about Castro and the missile crisis are simply incorrect.
- Berkana, on 08/11/2008, -22/+164Keep in mind some of people we've back stabbed:
1) the Afghans whom we armed and trained to fight the Russians. When the Russians left, we showed no interest in helping them rebuild their nation, and the religious radicals went and filled the power vacuum.
2) the Iraqis, whom we armed and trained to fight the Iranians, whom we armed with chemical weapons. They consulted with us before invading Kuwait because the Kuwaitis were "slant drilling" to tap Iraqi oil fields near the border, and we gave them the go-ahead, then we went and kicked their asses after they invaded Kuwait.
We say we want to bring "democracy" to the Middle east, but the CIA was behind the coup that overthrew the democratically elected leader of Iran in the 50's because he nationalized Iranian oil to rectify the problem of the oil companies splitting the oil wealth unjustly (if I remember correctly, the oil companies were giving the Iranians less than 5% of the oil revenues, and Mosadeq wanted at least 50%), and in his wake, we installed the tyrannical Shah.
The Georgians are understandably pissed. Who knows? Maybe the Bush administration is letting the Russians get busy with Georgia so they won't bother us if we attack Iran.
The Georgians shouldn't hold their breath. Our military is already over-stretched.- spongya77, on 08/11/2008, -0/+10Don't forget '56, Hungary.
- manstein01, on 08/11/2008, -21/+4"2) the Iraqis, whom we armed and trained to fight the Iranians, whom we armed with chemical weapons. They consulted with us before invading Kuwait because the Kuwaitis were "slant drilling" to tap Iraqi oil fields near the border, and we gave them the go-ahead, then we went and kicked their asses after they invaded Kuwait."
There isn't one word in this statement that is true. All of Sadam's arms came from the ex-Soviet Union. And Sadam came to us before invading Kuwait? Um, OK, anything else you would like to make-up before spouting ignorant "I hate America" garbage?- vism, on 08/11/2008, -1/+17"The United States supported Iraq during the Iran–Iraq War as a counterbalance to post-revolutionary Iran. The support took the form of technological aid, intelligence, the sale of dual-use and military equipment, and direct involvement in warfare against Iran." source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._support_for_Iraq ...
"The American ambassador declared to her Iraqi interlocutor that Washington, “inspired by the friendship and not by confrontation, does not have an opinion” on the disagreement which opposes Kuwait to Iraq, stating "we have no opinion on the Arab-Arab conflicts". She also let Saddam Hussein know that the U.S. did not intend "to start an economic war against Iraq". These statements may have misled Saddam into believing he had received a diplomatic green light from the United States to invade Kuwait" source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Kuwait#Ir ... - sodade, on 08/11/2008, -3/+8""I hate America" garbage?"
By being totally unaware of the crimes that our government has done in our name, you demonstrate that it is indeed YOU that hates america. - ImperialRome, on 08/11/2008, -4/+3Citing wikipedia as a source is ridiculous.
One.
The US had no way to assert control of Afghanistan when the Russians pulled out. We left them to determine their own future. We had no business picking sides in their internal struggle for self-determination. For us to assert any kind of control would have required two things: allies in Pakistan (and since Zia was dead in a plane crash, we didnt have any allies there, Bhutto was in charge) and a large military presence (which we couldn't project without a large amount of public support, which we didnt have). So, making the charge that we should have done something to fix the Afghan mess is an exercise in self deception. We couldnt and we shouldnt.
Two
The US didnt "arm" or "supply" Iraq with weapons. Saddam bought from the Russians and French. We (as in the Reagan Administration) adopted a policy of embargo. We also provided escort and reflagged tankers to protect them from attacks. Both Iran and Iraq were shooting (but not sinking) oil tankers in the gulf until we stopped it. This was the part where the Iraqis shot the USS Stark, and we responded with a more aggressive ROE, and that led to the shootdown of Iran flight 655.
Then the war ended, Saddam turned on his creditors the Kuwaitis and Saudis, and we were right back to fighting Saddam.
So, I would dispute any allegations of US involvement, neither military, intel, technical, nor "direct involvement" of any sort. After reading through the source material they cited in the wiki article, there was no "direct involvement" in the source references.
Finally, we hated both governments. We just hated Iran more because they represented the larger threat to our interests. If we had a situation , like Patton said, where we found ourselves trapped between the two, we would attack in both directions. - Berkana, on 08/14/2008, -0/+1See this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqoJHOSrjQo
According to them, Iraq consulted with us before attacking Kuwait.
- vism, on 08/11/2008, -1/+17"The United States supported Iraq during the Iran–Iraq War as a counterbalance to post-revolutionary Iran. The support took the form of technological aid, intelligence, the sale of dual-use and military equipment, and direct involvement in warfare against Iran." source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._support_for_Iraq ...
- AeroMerde, on 08/11/2008, -14/+91) So not only should we have helped them arm to fight back, but it was also our responsibility to rebuild their nation? What the *****?
2) That's entirely false. I can't believe you were dugg up for spreading this *****. - CollegeRuled, on 08/11/2008, -2/+21The Georgians want us to start World War III. How could you possibly support that?
- SuperVepr308, on 08/11/2008, -9/+6Wow! Two whole questionable examples out of 200+ years of existence. You know as well as I that the US takes care of its friends. We might not always agree but we are there if we are needed. If the tanks rolled into Germany or France right now, we would be there in a heartbeat. You know this.
- JinnRikki, on 08/11/2008, -1/+8Really? Is that why Britain had to survive bombing raids that almost destroyed them during the early years of WWII? Or the Germans rolling into France and occupying them? Yes we came, hardly in a heart beat, but some might say we waited much to long.
- ryesmall, on 08/11/2008, -0/+2There was a depression that was crippling our nation. That makes friendships strained.
- kuzotz, on 08/11/2008, -0/+4Jinn the US didn't have the military that it has today. We were in a economic depression, and we were more focussed towards ourselves because of this situation. We weren't a super power. Hell we were a third world country if you ask me. We were all about trading that was about it. Because our constitution really does support free enterprise (we shouldn't have used our military for those means though). The US was established as a nation of merchants. That's how I would put it, and that was why we were always about being neutral, and always about the Benjamins and then we became a super power. Got our hands into everything. Now we are in a ***** up position to be.
- pinchduck, on 08/11/2008, -5/+4How was it our responsibility to rebuild Afghanistan? Why couldn't they, as a country, pull back together and rebuild themselves? Aid, sure, and some technical advisors, but your post presupposes that we owed them a brand new country because we helped them get rid of the Soviets. I reject your premise wholeheartedly.
- Berkana, on 08/14/2008, -0/+1It wasn't our responsibility to rebuild Afghanistan. Nor is it our responsibility to fight for Georgia. But like the Afghans whom we had fighting for us (as the Georgians are fighting in Iraq, pretty much on our behalf regardless of how unjustified the war is) they have expectations. I'm just saying that their expectations are ill founded.
- jabberwolf, on 08/11/2008, -0/+4That's right, everything everyone else doesnt do for themselves.. the USA is responsible for?!?!
***** that! Sorry, but if Georgia invaded that area, with Russian troops at the border, should the USA decide to clean up that mess too?
I think the USA is getting a bit fed up at helping, being criticized for it, then not helping, and being criticized for that too.- Berkana, on 08/14/2008, -0/+1Hey, I'm not saying we should shed our blood for their mistakes, but we certainly have them in Iraq shedding blood for our mistakes, so they have expectations, understandably. Don't put words into my mouth; in my comment, I just said they shouldn't hold their breath waiting for us to go fight on their behalf.
- elamr, on 08/11/2008, -0/+2Don't forget the Kurds.
- cn283, on 08/12/2008, -0/+1well freaking said.
- spongya77, on 08/11/2008, -0/+10Don't forget '56, Hungary.
- evan2024, on 08/11/2008, -22/+13World War I began not too far away from Georgia. Just something to think about.
- spongya77, on 08/11/2008, -0/+16Like 2 inches on your globe?
Dude, Georgia is light years from Sarajevo. - DuffyDirect, on 08/11/2008, -2/+3lol bosnia is near georiga like new york is near chicago
- spongya77, on 08/11/2008, -0/+16Like 2 inches on your globe?
- zadadka, on 08/11/2008, -12/+42Expecting UN, NATO or anyone else to support then when they were and are the invading aggressor is just plain dumb of them....particularly in going up against Russia.
They chose to ignore diplomatic routes, that was their bad.
I do sympathise with the civilians, of course, but then, it's always the civilians that suffer in these situations....your leader is a fool on a fool's mission.- AeroMerde, on 08/11/2008, -8/+19Georgia wasn't the aggressor at all. Granted, they were heavy handed, but it was their right to prevent a part of their nation from seceding. Similarly to the US in the Civil War. Russia isn't letting Chechnyans break off, so their actions are hypocritical.
- rjey, on 08/11/2008, -6/+16Aeromerde is 100% correct and some of the crap some diggers are saying on here goes to show how uninformed those diggers are.
Now digg me down for saying it. - pighead77, on 08/11/2008, -9/+3Do you know and understand something critical called "status quo" in international affairs? The status quo is Ossetia has been independent for a long time since 1992 and Georgia decided to take it back by force and resulted in hundreds if not thousands of civilian death. So it is the aggressor by any definition.
Just think about this:
-- if Cuba decides to take Guantanamo Bay back from the US by force, would it not be called aggressor?
-- if no provocation, China decides to take Tawain back by force, would it not be called aggressor? - AeroMerde, on 08/11/2008, -3/+10Pighead, we have a legal treaty with Cuba for Guantanamo Bay. So they would indeed be an aggressor.
Taiwan isn't seceding. They've been independent for over half a century...
Another analogy might be if a group of Mexicans in the southern United States tried to break off part of the US for Mexico, arguing that they (Mexican citizens) were the predominant group in the area. We would absolutely be justified in stopping them. - emkaysmith, on 08/11/2008, -2/+10Wrong. Ossetia has NEVER been functionally independent, no matter what they like to claim. NOT EVER.
And your examples imply that Russia trying to grab Ossetia and then all of Georgia (better turn on CNN, guys) is somehow taking back its own territory, which is absolutely nuts. - TheMachine1, on 08/11/2008, -1/+6People should have the right to self determination. The US Civil War was known as the War of Northern aggression to the people in the South. In a just world a state should be able to secede.
- luckless, on 08/11/2008, -0/+1Maybe if we all looked at each situation as it came rather than using the argument "they did it so we can do it too" the world would be a much better off place.
Russia was a bitch for not letting Chechnya go when they wanted to, and Georgia is a bitch for not letting South Ossetia go when they wanted to.
The people living there are the ones suffering, so think about that rather than just saying that it's justified because someone else did the same thing. - jameskong15, on 08/11/2008, -0/+3Russia warned that they would support their citizens/troops in SO against attack and they were basically obligated to under the peacekeeping agreement from the 1994 treaty. Georgia went out, killed it's own citizens in SO, and killed Russian peacekeepers who were rightfully in the region. That is why they are considered the aggressor.
- rjey, on 08/11/2008, -6/+16Aeromerde is 100% correct and some of the crap some diggers are saying on here goes to show how uninformed those diggers are.
- Avienus, on 08/11/2008, -0/+0The only thing the USA could do would be to apply political pressure. Nothing more. Of course the magnitude of this conflict is being way over looked, but you must commend the Russians for picking the perfect time to attack, everyone is in Beijing.
- seadeus, on 08/13/2008, -1/+1How can a person comment on this story and not know that Georgia didn't invade, Russia invaded. So if the U.S. starts to deport illegal mexicans by force, will it be okay with you if the Russians invade the US?
- AeroMerde, on 08/11/2008, -8/+19Georgia wasn't the aggressor at all. Granted, they were heavy handed, but it was their right to prevent a part of their nation from seceding. Similarly to the US in the Civil War. Russia isn't letting Chechnyans break off, so their actions are hypocritical.
- Alphateam, on 08/11/2008, -34/+33What natural resource do you have us to steal?
Nothing?
Sorry no help for you!- msimeth, on 08/11/2008, -1/+26Sorry, they have the oil pipeline. It is the main competition to russian oil for eastern europe.
- dkapuchino, on 08/11/2008, -2/+12And the main reason Russia's invading.
- exomni, on 08/11/2008, -0/+17Dude, are you that ignorant? What do you think all the fuss over Georgia has been for in the first place?
- exomni, on 08/11/2008, -0/+7And also, besides the pipeline that runs through Georgia, there is the potential NATO influence of Georgia.
- OC73, on 08/11/2008, -0/+2Alphaputz
- msimeth, on 08/11/2008, -1/+26Sorry, they have the oil pipeline. It is the main competition to russian oil for eastern europe.
- Flushnasty, on 08/11/2008, -13/+65You started it.
- bishopknight, on 08/11/2008, -10/+3But Foxnews says Russia did. Oh boy, who to believe!? ;)
- zeusthemoose, on 08/11/2008, -7/+2Incorrect. Rebels in S. Ossetia started it by launching mortar attacks into Georgia and the border skirmish that took place. I can't believe that you people actually believe that Georgia was the sole provocateur in this and that Russia is justified in taking over a sovereign nation!!!
- jameskong15, on 08/11/2008, -0/+3Assuming that was actually true, they used a "rebel attack" as justification for shelling hundreds of civilians to death and killing 10-15 Russian peacekeepers who were there under a previous agreement? And they didn't expect Russia to do anything about it even after they said they would if pushed.....?
- zhulik83, on 08/11/2008, -0/+1Proof?????
- markgl, on 08/11/2008, -4/+6do any of you know the situation???
they went in to fight to get back they section of country that is trying to break away and russia stuck its nose in there.- CarzorStelatis, on 08/11/2008, -2/+5Ossetia isn't 'trying to break away' - they've been de facto independent for more than fifteen years after kicking Georgia's ass in a war of independence in the early 90s.
- markgl, on 08/12/2008, -0/+1doesn't mean that georgia is letting go. they're not even recognized by the world as an independent nation.
- MxM111, on 08/12/2008, -0/+1And may be they should have been? I mean why did we recognize Georgia itself when USSR split in 1991, but not Ossetia, which actually declared independence in 1990?
- ORBAT, on 08/11/2008, -1/+2NO U!
- sheasie, on 08/11/2008, -45/+52Iraq saw and opportunity to invade Kuwait (and the US stepped in to drive out the invader).
Georgia saw an opportunity to invade Southern Ossetia (and Russia stepped in to drive out the invader).
Iraq ***** up (and America was right).
Georgia ***** up (and Russia is right).
Same difference.
End of story.- oscenester, on 08/11/2008, -10/+4Bravo. An education is a much lauded thing. You sir, win an +1 digg.
- BluetoE, on 08/11/2008, -5/+5Kuwait is a sovereign country. Southern Ossetia is part of Georgia.
FAIL
-1 - MxM111, on 08/12/2008, -0/+2Ossetia declared its independence back in 1990, and was factually independent for 17 years.
- BluetoE, on 08/11/2008, -5/+5Kuwait is a sovereign country. Southern Ossetia is part of Georgia.
- cheezwhip, on 08/11/2008, -8/+16If I see this same spew copy and pasted in another set of a comments, I am going to hurl.
Buried. - dkapuchino, on 08/11/2008, -8/+17Except Kuwait was never part of Iraq. South Ossetia is STILL part of georgia. Now they're all going to be called "Mother Russia".
- baleful, on 08/11/2008, -2/+6S. Ossetia was semi-autonomous since the days of the Soviet Union. It was a conflict region since early 1990's. Both sides, Georgia and S. Ossetia agreed to a ceasefire with Russian troops to be the peacekeepers in the region.
Georgia broke the ceasefire treaty by launching an attack on the capital city. They weren't even trying to avoid civilian casualties--they were using unguided weapons. They were burning homes because "this is their land" (this is taken from an AP article).
Is Russia wrong for continuing the advance? Probably although we do not know all of the reasons. Was Russia wrong to step in and stop Georgians from slaughtering civilians? Absolutely. - dkapuchino, on 08/11/2008, -3/+2just because the first you've heard of this conflict was when Georgia launched an attack against the rebels, doesn't mean this was what started it. Russia has been arming and supporting the Ossetian Separatists, exactly to cause Instability in the region, and finaly get their excuse to invade.
- EtherGnat, on 08/11/2008, -1/+1@dkapuchino
And the US has been providing training and aid to the Georgian military. Were we trying to cause instability too? Saakashvili's been looking for an opportunity to take back that land for a long time. There's plenty of blame to go around. - dkapuchino, on 08/12/2008, -1/+1Arming the official government of a recognized state is one thing.
Arming a group of separatists within a country is another. - EtherGnat, on 08/12/2008, -0/+1@dkapuchino
I don't think there's a country in the world that wouldn't act to defend a region that was until 17 years ago part of their country, that is populated primarily by citizens carrying their passport, has been acting autonomously for 16 years, and when they're obligated by treaty to act as peacekeepers.
I don't see how it's any different from the US supplying arms to Taiwan, or what any number of other countries in the world do.
- baleful, on 08/11/2008, -2/+6S. Ossetia was semi-autonomous since the days of the Soviet Union. It was a conflict region since early 1990's. Both sides, Georgia and S. Ossetia agreed to a ceasefire with Russian troops to be the peacekeepers in the region.
- warriorscot, on 08/11/2008, -3/+8Just because South Ossetians WANT to be Russian doesn't mean they are you cannot invade your own country no matter how hard you try, it was an internal matter if Russia had a problem they could have brought it up with NATO or the UN who would have made Georgia sit down at a table.
- emkaysmith, on 08/11/2008, -0/+3Gee, and I thought Russia was going in to support Ossetian "independence". . . .
I hope the Balkan states are paying attention. It will probably be their turn in a few more years. - luckless, on 08/11/2008, -1/+0Maybe they just wanted to bring freedom and democracy to the people of South Ossetia just like the US brought freedom and democracy to Iraq.
- EtherGnat, on 08/11/2008, -1/+1"Just because South Ossetians WANT to be Russian doesn't mean they are"
It's more complicated than that. Remember all of Georgia was part of Russia until 1991. Even before Georgia became independent again South Ossetia was fighting for its own independence in a rather brutal war (on both sides).
Since the cease fire in 1992 South Ossetia has been operating as an autonomous nation, despite not being recognized internationally. Over 50% and perhaps as much as 90% of the population carry Russian passports. Any way you look at it it's complicated.
- emkaysmith, on 08/11/2008, -0/+3Gee, and I thought Russia was going in to support Ossetian "independence". . . .
- AeroMerde, on 08/11/2008, -3/+9Ossetia isn't a nation like Kuwait is. It's part of Georgia. Huge ***** difference between 1991 and this war in Georgia.
- kuzotz, on 08/11/2008, -1/+21. Iraq was given the ok by the US, and then the US came in and kicked down the doors.
- AsylumAleikum, on 08/11/2008, -1/+1Idiot.
- seadeus, on 08/13/2008, -0/+1Iraq invaded another country, Russia invaded another country, Georgia did not invade any country. If you do not understand that, then please do truth a favor and do not comment on this event.
- oscenester, on 08/11/2008, -10/+4Bravo. An education is a much lauded thing. You sir, win an +1 digg.
- SteelChicken, on 08/11/2008, -23/+52+1
Georgia planned this from the beginning. Hey US, we will send a few thousand troops to help in Iraq, and then when we start ***** with Russia by invading S. Ossetia, you must come help us!!! OH THE HUMANITY
OH and dont forget to add a staged heart wrenching picture of some woman and her kid. OH THE HUMANITY- djRob, on 08/11/2008, -1/+10Oh the cynicism, oh the cynicism.
- Dorment, on 08/11/2008, -5/+11Staged huh? You know, innocent people are dying no matter what terrible geopolitical reasoning lead to this, lets try to have some compassion.
- forgottenhope, on 08/11/2008, -2/+8You take compassion and shove it up your ass. Yeah people are dying and for you tell people to describe it in such ways so that you're feeling are not hurt, eat *****.
Staged as in what the ***** does Israeli intelligence have in advancing the Georgians military on the matter?
Yeah people are dying in Iraq too, lets not forget that millions of families in Iraq are refugees or the hundreds of thousands that are dead. Over lies. Over war profiteering. More than half a million people are dead just so that someone could eat off a better plate.
Every American should be ashamed for not stopping a war that has no end. And that blood is on the hands of every ignorant American and the politicians who fill those pockets with blood money.
You want compassion, go digg it up out of a pool of blood from some child who bled to death with half his body missing because staying the coarse of a lye is the American Way. - Dorment, on 08/12/2008, -0/+1You really think your anger is going to change something? You'll just kick up more hate for your purposes only to have it answered back with more violence, and you can't wash away blood with more blood. People think that they can stop the cycle with revenge or some deus ex machina of passion and rage, all the while your just increasing the race to ultimate ashes for all of us.
- forgottenhope, on 08/11/2008, -2/+8You take compassion and shove it up your ass. Yeah people are dying and for you tell people to describe it in such ways so that you're feeling are not hurt, eat *****.
- jayjay80, on 08/11/2008, -4/+7Dude, South Ossetia is part of Georgia, not Russia. A lot of Russians there, though
- EtherGnat, on 08/11/2008, -3/+1South Ossetia is part of Georgia in the same way Taiwan is part of China.
- Lindz2000, on 08/11/2008, -14/+49Idiots! The US did help you.
By supplying you all those arms, courting you with the promise of inclusion in NATO (nothing to do with your strategic worth to them of course) and training your troops.
So, as you can see you were helped, to get yourself into this *****. Some people are never satisfied.- saigumi, on 08/11/2008, -0/+4Also, because this author decides to cover his ears and go "LALALALALALA I can't hear you! America sucks.", doesn't mean that NATO, the UN and the United States isn't doing anything.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/11/un.geor ...
Hell, the US is personally airlifting home their own troops from Iraq for them right frigging now to let them handle their own problems.
Go back to ignoring the help you are getting and whine some more.- Lindz2000, on 08/12/2008, -0/+1Poor deluded Saigumi. If anyone is covering their ears it certainly isn't me.
The UN and NATO, unlike The US still believe in international law.
When the Georgian government bombed South Ossetia, killing 1,400 innocent women and children, they also killed 15 Russian PEACEKEEPERS. They certainly aren't the poor nation been bullied by the might of the nasty 58th Russian Army.
The US may be airlifting Georgian troops home but I can assure you it is purely to protect their own agenda, not the Georgians. They are sooo worried about their precious oil pipeline (heard that somewhere before) and not forgetting of course the obvious strategic importance Georgia holds.
I remember 45 years ago Russia attempted a similar move involving Cuba during the cold war.
America certainly wasn't pleased by the implications of this strategy by the Russians, as I am sure the latter are pretty pissed off by the US' base building in the ex-Eastern block.
So no. I do not cover my ears and sing LA bloody LA. I actually open my ears and eyes very much and attempt to understand what is actually happening in the world, rather than swallowing the propagandistic ***** that appears to be you predilection.
In closing, I would like to assure all clear thinking Americans that I don't think America sucks.
What does suck it the US administrations continuing destabilization of just about everywhere to further their own ends, with a total disregard of the misery they leave behind.
But what totally sucks are the ignorant people who really believe that America is helping anyone apart from America. And unfortunately, unless you are part of the upper echelons of corporate power, you will get ***** to.
Get aware!
- Lindz2000, on 08/12/2008, -0/+1Poor deluded Saigumi. If anyone is covering their ears it certainly isn't me.
- saigumi, on 08/11/2008, -0/+4Also, because this author decides to cover his ears and go "LALALALALALA I can't hear you! America sucks.", doesn't mean that NATO, the UN and the United States isn't doing anything.
- djRob, on 08/11/2008, -7/+77Ivan to Dick - Dick are you going to help Georgia?
Dick- Maybe.
Ivan - Do you want Russia to sell advanced defense systems to Iran?
Dick - No.
Ivan - So are you going to help Georgia?
Dick - No.
Ivan - Good boy :-) - ryan83189, on 08/11/2008, -9/+18Thing is, Iraq did not have ICBMs, a navy, an army, an air force, defense systems, a war industry, and all of the other stuff that made it a super power during the cold war.
- 7Mystery, on 08/11/2008, -20/+39"We Helped in Iraq"......So now they know how it feels to be invaded, occupied, and make large holes in your country for fun?
Karma is a bitch!- dafragsta, on 08/11/2008, -4/+12Uuuh... yeah, when a buddy tells you he needs help moving a couch, you take it on good faith that he's not moving it from his unknowing next door neighbor's house while he's at work.
- forgottenhope, on 08/11/2008, -0/+7best ***** reply ever.
- moulin1, on 08/11/2008, -5/+29Apparently Georgians never heard of the Bay of Pigs.
- brickbat, on 08/11/2008, -1/+6Or the first Iraq war even.
- moulin1, on 08/11/2008, -33/+31To the Georgian people: You have no deal with the American people. I hate to be so blunt but it is only the truth. We don't know you and don't care about you. If you had a deal with Bush and Cheney we knew nothing about it. And you should have realized that you were dealing with leaders that are unpopular here and scheduled for removal. So you spent all of your money buying our guns and invested in the war in Iraq as well. Caveat Emptor. You traded your national treasury for empty promises made by men who couldn't keep them from the start. But you needn't feel too foolish. They lied to and cheated us as well.
- Hetman, on 08/11/2008, -11/+11To bad it doesnt work that way. They are our allies. And we have signed treates with them saying this. If they need our help, it is our obligation to help them. If you did not want to be allies with Georgia then you should have marched on washington the day they signed the treaty. You should not have waited for a war to start, and then state that we are not their Allies.
- alkajazz, on 08/11/2008, -2/+5Yeah you're right. Treaties have never ever been violated before.
- lba1986, on 08/11/2008, -0/+12What "treates" are you talking about?
- moulin1, on 08/11/2008, -0/+7Really could you be more specific? What treaties are you talking about?
- godseyeview, on 08/11/2008, -0/+5Treaties? please post more info.
- Terr01, on 08/11/2008, -0/+3AFAIK they are/were interested in NATO membership but aren't a member.
- diggit83, on 08/11/2008, -0/+1Oh I do hope he means pie!
If its cake....I will pass
- draculthemad, on 08/11/2008, -1/+5Yeah. Hold your ankles, we will go to war to protect georgia...
The west has quite the vested interest in the area, and at the least we will probably be moving troops there to reassure Turkey, who IS a member of NATO btw.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan_p ...
This is all *****, Russia would not be getting this bold if we werent already at 90% force commit because of 2 concurrent wars. During all this, Bush is getting ***** in Beijing. - tpearl, on 08/11/2008, -2/+1You dont even know what your talking about so just shut your pie hole.
- Hetman, on 08/11/2008, -11/+11To bad it doesnt work that way. They are our allies. And we have signed treates with them saying this. If they need our help, it is our obligation to help them. If you did not want to be allies with Georgia then you should have marched on washington the day they signed the treaty. You should not have waited for a war to start, and then state that we are not their Allies.
- chrisvc86, on 08/11/2008, -2/+41This is a ***** situation.
- jayobear, on 08/11/2008, -1/+5Not to mention icky. I'd hate to be in that mess.
- bicyclethief, on 08/11/2008, -6/+18Georgians need to learn an American acronym: SOL.
- sirber, on 08/11/2008, -1/+14Shared Object Layer ?
- BXRWXR, on 08/11/2008, -0/+5As long as the thing shared is luckless *****.
- Eiknujrac, on 08/11/2008, -3/+6Standards of Learning?
Systems Optimization Lab? - TrueXtremeIcon, on 08/11/2008, -3/+7The Sun? Wait, that's not an acronym.
I'm stumped now. - todamax, on 08/11/2008, -0/+4Stupidly Organized Labor
- ORBAT, on 08/11/2008, -0/+3Maybe he's talking about the Mexican beer.
- LaggedRabbit, on 08/13/2008, -0/+1***** Outta Luck
- sirber, on 08/11/2008, -1/+14Shared Object Layer ?
- pennvneff, on 08/11/2008, -17/+11Do you really think Bush and the rest of the Republican cowards would actually help if you actually needed it?
- ExRe, on 08/11/2008, -3/+5If they had something to gain.
Scary thing is, there is a lot to gain by going to war with Russia when you or your friends own companies that make the weapons that are used in wars.
The rich can afford nuclear shelters (and some are paid for by tax payers on top of that). - adijux, on 08/11/2008, -0/+1It's not about fear or who's the coward. If US started fighting Russia directly, this could lead to another global war as other countries might join the conflict. And you definitely don't want that, do you?
- ExRe, on 08/11/2008, -3/+5If they had something to gain.
- oli5993, on 08/11/2008, -4/+24FTA:
“Why won’t America and Nato help us? If they won’t help us now, why did we help them in Iraq?”
"[...]Why were our soldiers in Kosovo and Iraq if we don’t get any help from the West now?”
From their point of view, they have a point...- h0ser, on 08/11/2008, -8/+6Georgia bombed its own city, Russia stepped in to stop them. Russia IS helping georgia. The news is just manipulated to make Russia look like the bad guys.
- Blg7, on 08/11/2008, -1/+2Where did you get your information from, russian state television? I guess that is why Russia sunk a Georgian missile ship AFTER Georgia declared a unilateral cease fire and began withdrawing troops?
Russia supports "separatists" in South Ossetia who are really nothing more than Russians that want to rebuild the USSR. They are trying to force Georgia into an unstable situation so that it can't join NATO which would be a disaster for Russia once the American missile defense system comes online and begins to be deployed in NATO and other allied countries. Not to mention their obsession with economic control of the region which requires them to stop Georgia from building competing oil pipelines that route around the current Russian stranglehold in that part of the world. - Beveridge89, on 08/11/2008, -1/+4Russia aren't the bad guys, but they aren't the good guys either. They supplied the arms to the seperatists who started this. Georgia responded hugely disproportionately; but so has Russia by now invading Georgias second breakaway region.
Russia isn't trying to help Georgia, and indeed isn't. It's trying to ive itself the upper hand against a pro-American state on its border.
- Blg7, on 08/11/2008, -1/+2Where did you get your information from, russian state television? I guess that is why Russia sunk a Georgian missile ship AFTER Georgia declared a unilateral cease fire and began withdrawing troops?
- h0ser, on 08/11/2008, -8/+6Georgia bombed its own city, Russia stepped in to stop them. Russia IS helping georgia. The news is just manipulated to make Russia look like the bad guys.
- Pyehole, on 08/11/2008, -10/+23It's a Bush family tradition. Just ask the Kurds how long it too George senior to make good on his word.
- cIue, on 08/11/2008, -4/+8This situation is escalating by the day. A new digg on it every time i visit.
- fpaudon, on 08/11/2008, -0/+1Yes, because the importance of a situation can accurately be measured by the amounts of diggs it gets. Unless you are joking, die in a fire
- identd, on 08/11/2008, -3/+5Maybe the US is waiting until the government of Georgia asks for help, we don't know if this has been done yet.
Thats the US's biggest problem, we come in and act as god, when the government in question doesnt ask for it. - woody168, on 08/11/2008, -13/+1why US did not help Georgia? simple, there is no oil interest there. if there is, buck fush jr. will be all over it. unfortunately, that is all he is interested in. And he is too busy to kiss Putin's azz.
- gcnaddict, on 08/11/2008, -0/+1buck fush?
azz?
What are you, a 10 year old scared of mommie soaping your mouth? Just say the words and let the digg censors deal with it for those that have filtering enabled. - identifiedlogo, on 08/11/2008, -1/+1Reading wont kill you dummy.... BP owns the biggest oil pipe in the caucus known as the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan (BTC) it passes through Georgia. and if you think Georgia attacked a country which is 10 times bigger, and 10000000000000000000000 powerful than georgia, then go back to your lala land. Russia can take the whole of Georgia within few hours....and Bush is going to help them cause Cheney wants his WWIII.
- gcnaddict, on 08/11/2008, -0/+1buck fush?
- exomni, on 08/11/2008, -19/+66Help you? Help you do what? You killed 1400 people invading South Ossetia four days ago, and you don't expect to get bombed back, you stupid *****? Georgia needs some new leaders who aren't ***** in the head. Saakashvili is a ***** moron.
We've been helping Gerogia since the beginning. We've supported them in bid for NATO membership, we've given them loads of arms. And then they go and invade South Ossetia. ***** them. ***** idiots.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/sou ...- geekee, on 08/11/2008, -10/+3They invaded their own territory? Orwell taught you well.
- kingmanic, on 08/11/2008, -0/+6The province held a referendum a number of years ago. They invaded a separatist province who allied themselves with Russia. The reason Georgia exists is because they separated from Russia after the fall of the soviet union. So it's sort of ironic that they handled the separatists in such a fashion.
- pighead77, on 08/11/2008, -2/+6Do you know and understand something critical called "status quo" in international affairs? The status quo is Ossetia has been independent for a long time since 1992 and Georgia decided to take it back by force and resulted in hundreds if not thousands of civilian death. So it is the aggressor by any definition.
Just think about this:
-- if Cuba decides to take Guantanamo Bay back from the US by force, would it not be called aggressor?
-- if no provocation, China decides to take Tawain back by force, would it not be called aggressor? - byronm, on 08/11/2008, -1/+3Don't try and convince the stupid righties of anything.. they lack reasoning. They forget that Ossetia is more akin to Taiwan and China, if China started bombing Taiwan it would essentially be bombing itself but any educated man/women knows Taiwan is a separatist land and has ambitions of its own.
- emkaysmith, on 08/11/2008, -5/+3I'm getting really tired of the Russian apologists claiming Georgia "invaded" its own territory.
And pighead, stop copy-and-pasting your nonsense. If you're that fond of Putin, go and enlist in the Imperial Russian Army.
- swatter22, on 08/11/2008, -1/+2I'd have to agree with that statement (probably not in this exact words..but anyhow :) ).
There was a ceasefire in force. Georgia, probably thinking Russia would not dare striking back figures to break the ceasefire, bomb the hell out of S. Ossetia and along with civilians kill some russian peacekeepers. Russia retaliates, naturally, bombs the hell out of Georgian advancing forces. At this point utterly shocked Saakashvili has an "OMG WTF" moment and calls for a ceasefire...again.
To make an analogy..the Soviet Union might as well nuke a few US cities back in the cold war days, then say "Sorry my bad, now lets talk nuclear disarmament".
I really cant understand what kind of reaction was Saakashvili expecting from Russia, even more surprising is that he expects others to deal with the mess he himself created. At this point Russia is just making sure that he will think twice before making that kind of a stupid move again.
- geekee, on 08/11/2008, -10/+3They invaded their own territory? Orwell taught you well.
- RogueGenius, on 08/11/2008, -8/+10Don't Georgians understand that it's all about Bush?
Ask not what Bush can do for you, ask what you can do for Bush.
They helped him and thats just right and good. But, do something for them? Come on. Are you kidding? What's in it for Bush?- bainfu, on 08/11/2008, -0/+1You must not know a lot about the region. If you think the Iraq war was about oil, out interests to intervene would be pretty much because of oil here. There are pipelines that go through Georgia, that are of interest to the U.S.
Also the Caspian Sea has something like over 10 trillion dollars worth of oil in it. But Georgia got themselves into this mess, I'm not sure what the course of action is, if we should or should not bail them out.
- bainfu, on 08/11/2008, -0/+1You must not know a lot about the region. If you think the Iraq war was about oil, out interests to intervene would be pretty much because of oil here. There are pipelines that go through Georgia, that are of interest to the U.S.
- gtluke, on 08/11/2008, -2/+30because digg would complain that we are meddling in other countries affairs
- Smaulz, on 08/12/2008, -0/+1Okay, it took WAY too many pages of ***** comments to get to this one. WHY?
- SamMcPhy, on 08/11/2008, -4/+12Russia is now invading the rest of Georga; this is a huge escalation.
If the West/NATO doesn't help, I wonder if Georga would turn to the sleeping military giant in the Mideast - namely Turkey. Turkey has a large, modern military. Don't know how Georgan vis-a-vis Turkish relations are but the Turks could probably stop the Russians as long the conflict remained in theater. Who knows, the Turks may think "we're the next if we don't stop them now." Remembering famous statements by dictators like the "this will be our last territorial demand..."
Lot of ifs - but this situation is spinning out of control.- kingmanic, on 08/11/2008, -2/+7I doubt the turks would want to wrangle with Russia. There is no upside to that intervention. All Georgia has is mixed western sympathy. Otherwise they are SOL.
- tomz17, on 08/11/2008, -2/+9No... are you insane? Despite the size of their armed forces, without backup from their NATO allies the turks would not be able to hold Russia. Any action on the part of the turks would just further escalate the situation, and Russia would put the full weight of their military into this campaign.
Besides, why would the turks start crap with a military juggernaut like Russia. They are in NATO, and are therefore very well protected against agression initiated by Russia. If they were perceived as the aggressors here, there is a VERY good chance we would hang them out to dry.
- emkaysmith, on 08/11/2008, -1/+3Well, . . . historically, the Turks have been more partial to Russia than to their nearer neighbors in the Caucasus. And Russia won't have to bother with Turkey if they can push straight through to the Persian Gulf -- as they've been trying to do for at least 300 years.
- uracre, on 08/11/2008, -0/+1Well, ... historically, Turks and Russians were never partial to each other; 5 centuries of wars are the most obvious sign for that. 11 wars are directly Turks against Russians, and there are many other wars that Russians supported and aided Turks' enemies, and vice versa. I don't know where people like you learn history.
- emkaysmith, on 08/12/2008, -0/+1Not in whatever Eastern European university you attended, obviously. But I was thinking "historically" for the past century or so.
- uracre, on 08/12/2008, -0/+1And you keep answering... The last war was technically 1918. However, the high tension between the countries remained still. An example can be given for the Cyprus issue. When Turkey threatened the Greek Cypriots to remove their forces from Turkish Cypriot zones, Nikita Sergeyevich Khrushchev responded back threatening Turkey. Aside from these, do I need to mention Turkey's Nato membership, the reasons for it, the American bases at Turkey? I mean, really, why don't you just accept you just made up a fictional history from your ass?
- richmomz, on 08/11/2008, -3/+2That's almost as ridiculous as the idea that Georgia might be able to take on Russia. Even after the Soviet collapse they still have the second most powerful army in the world.
- evilcaptain, on 08/11/2008, -0/+6You know how Jimbo doesn't mess with Nelson?
- mandarin, on 08/11/2008, -0/+1I thought that was because Jimbo's mom is hot
- alkajazz, on 08/11/2008, -5/+9I really don't want to get my legs blown off because you decided to ***** with the bear. Sorry Georgia.
- nastronomical, on 08/11/2008, -13/+22Because liberals would foam at the mouth.
For the ignorant saying Georgians deserve this...ask youselves why was Russia prepared with Tank columns already in place and man power at hand to invade at a moments notice?- angeland8, on 08/11/2008, -10/+11It took about 20 hours for Russia to bring troops to South Ossetia.
I doubt it means 'already in place' and 'at a moments notice'.- nastronomical, on 08/11/2008, -5/+5sigh ignorance is bliss, huh?
- angeland8, on 08/11/2008, -3/+2I totally agree. It's a big problem for you. So sad...
- ORBAT, on 08/11/2008, -0/+220 hours is practically instant when you're talking about hundreds of tanks and thousands of soldiers.
You apparently have no idea how militaries work. - alealea, on 08/11/2008, -1/+2Of course, Russians came in an instant. All armies, if they are worth something, have their engagement plans ready for the most probable problematic situations. Georgians were preparing for the attack and were deploying troops around South Ossetia in preparation for their offensive on Thursday. It didn't go unnoticed by Russians so Russians deployed their troops around in case the things go bad. Iit seems that they were right from the military point of view. It also appears that Russian plan was fairly good and they execute it well. Just 3 days after Georgia's surprise offensive on South Ossetia, Georgian army is beaten down and pursued. Now Georgians want the whole world to go crazy about them and WWIII to start. Can you imagine that they have been spending 70% of their country's budget on their army for all these years? What a waste of money. They could use that money to get their economy going or even to pay people in South Ossetia and get them think good about Georgia. Well, "Vae Victis"... Georgian president will have to go soon. Georgians will realize that country is destroyed and that his little adventure failed and will take him down. Good example for all small countries that invest heavily in their armies...
- angeland8, on 08/11/2008, -1/+1I never said troops were brought from the North pole. But it's not true they were standing at the border. And they definetely were not in South Ossetia August 7 when Georgia started the war.
- zeusthemoose, on 08/11/2008, -0/+2LOL the Russians have been on the border for years. You are completely ignorant of reality.
- zeusthemoose, on 08/11/2008, -1/+1The world is coming to an end. For once I agree with nastronomical.
- todamax, on 08/11/2008, -2/+3I wouldn't call it a "moment's notice" if America was attacked, how long do you think it will take our troops and planes to already be bombing and attacking the ***** out of the aggressor? Probably half the time as it took Russia. It's called having military bases around your country and the world.
- xenuxenuts, on 08/11/2008, -0/+4This didn't just erupt over night.
- exomni, on 08/12/2008, -1/+1""For the ignorant saying Georgians deserve this...ask youselves why was Russia prepared with Tank columns already in place and man power at hand to invade at a moments notice?""
Because there has been fighting along the border for years, and it's been escalating in the past weeks and months. Your ignorance astounds me. Please educate yourself before posting nonsense: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_South_Ossetia_Wa ...
- angeland8, on 08/11/2008, -10/+11It took about 20 hours for Russia to bring troops to South Ossetia.
- howdareyou, on 08/11/2008, -9/+6America reminds me of the clichéd alien race we find in most Hollywood blockbusters.
- GumGuts, on 08/11/2008, -8/+6You were on the wrong side in the Civil war there Georgia
GTFO- GumGuts, on 08/11/2008, -2/+1/sarcasm?
- wynja, on 08/11/2008, -6/+6Everyone needs to see Charlies War about how the Cold War was won in Afghanistan and how we couldn't be bothered to spend $1 million on rebuilding schools after spending $1 billion on supplying them with weapons to fight the Soviets.
- veriix, on 08/11/2008, -2/+8Why don't they just become refugees in Florida?
- ORBAT, on 08/11/2008, -0/+1The Cubans would drive them out.
- richmomz, on 08/11/2008, -0/+1Florida is the next target - St. Petersburg shall be liberated! lol
- UltimatrixmaN, on 08/11/2008, -9/+3We're all screwed.
WW3 Instigation.
I've got a Bunker, someone bring the punch and pie and we'll have a Lan Party. - geekee, on 08/11/2008, -2/+45Don't worry. The UN is working on the problem.
- SuperVepr308, on 08/11/2008, -1/+7And there you go. See how that works?
- ssn697, on 08/11/2008, -0/+10Thank you for bringing some well needed humor to the thread...
- jabberwolf, on 08/11/2008, -0/+14Yes the UN will CONDEMN Russia.. and if that doesn't work... they will STRONGLY CONDEMN Russia and then create another stronger resolution saying they VERY STRONGLY CONDEMN Russia.
That will show'em!! - ORBAT, on 08/11/2008, -0/+3I think it's sad that I laughed at your comment.
- firemaple, on 08/11/2008, -0/+1Haha.
- peticsu, on 08/11/2008, -5/+3Georgia needs to tell their lobbyists to keep McCain on the down low for a bit. McCain is saber rattling before there is even a proposal at the UN security council when Russia has veto power...idiot
- geekee, on 08/11/2008, -0/+2Russia is firing real weapons, but you're accusing McCain of saber rattling for telling them to knock it off?
- DuffyDirect, on 08/11/2008, -2/+5If a war started for Georgia by us or the French Foreign Legion or something, I'd be willing to volunteer.
- nkleffman, on 08/11/2008, -16/+5We've got a white house full of nuts who foam at the mouth at the prospect of nuclear war with Russia. Zbigniew Brzezinski, the man behind the puppet Obama, is among the worst. *****.
- emkaysmith, on 08/11/2008, -3/+1So you're willing to allow Russia to reconstitute the old Soviet hegemony? Because that's exactly what's beginning, and Georgia is the first casualty. It won't be the last.
- anarking, on 08/11/2008, -1/+2McCarthy is that you? I agree and after Georgia we stop the commie domino effect starting in Vietnam.
- emkaysmith, on 08/12/2008, -1/+1What the hell are you talking about? You DON'T believe Putin is beginning a new expansionist phase? What rosy fantasy world are you living in?
You don't know anything about me. I'm a hard-core, far-left Democrat, a VN veteran, and an antiwar protester after I got back stateside. I'm also perfectly aware of Russia's long, long history of imperialism in that region. Next is the Ukraine. Wait and see. - DigzDogg, on 08/12/2008, -0/+0You probably do not see the difference between "United Soviet Socialists Republics' and Russia. Don't smoke too much with hippies, you missing a lot.
- emkaysmith, on 08/11/2008, -3/+1So you're willing to allow Russia to reconstitute the old Soviet hegemony? Because that's exactly what's beginning, and Georgia is the first casualty. It won't be the last.
- wukillabee, on 08/11/2008, -17/+14the US and EU are a bunch of pussies to the Russians
- vbschoten, on 08/11/2008, -2/+8says the keyboard warrior
- leerayIG88, on 08/11/2008, -1/+318 years old... lol
- seadeus, on 08/13/2008, -0/+1So it has only taken the Russians about 100 years to locate that one little country they could bully, and it turns out it was themselves, sort of. The Russians should stay clear of France. Were is the evidence of Russian military success? Who do you think designed Russian tanks in WW2 and gave the Russians the materials to build all those tanks to fight the Nazis? If the USA had not, the Russians would have been defeated by a much smaller German army, instead the Russians only lost 20 million dead. Tell us how the Russians did in Finland.
- JasonCox, on 08/11/2008, -11/+10You'd think the world would have learned after WWII... Don't piss off Russia.
- zeusthemoose, on 08/11/2008, -1/+3Ha except the world dynamics have changed quite a bit nowadays.
- seadeus, on 08/13/2008, -0/+1Do the math; 40 million died in WW2, 20 million of them were Russian. I think it is the Russians that missed the lesson of that war.
- Iztikeit, on 08/11/2008, -2/+6I wonder if this is how the world is going to work from now. Countries that expect unwavering devotion because they played puppet for the United Nations. So they helped us in Iraq (which is something that looks less and
