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Gaza power plant shuts down
thenewsy.blogspot.com — A power plant in Gaza City has shut down, affecting 500,000 local inhabitants and forcing local hospitals to run on reserve fuel. Large parts of the Gaza Strip, particularly Gaza City, were in darkness after the main power station shut down its generators on Saturday.
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- cashman57, on 05/11/2008, -10/+21It looks like a pretty good deal to me. If my neighbor was shelling me I would not supply him with power.
As I see it the Gazans have a choice. They chose the Hamas and thus accepted what Hamas represents and should not be surprised when the predictable result occurred.
If they find it too difficult to stop lobbing missiles into Israel then they should line up some other source of fuel and electricity.
Perhaps the next time there is an election the people of Gaza will decide that terrorists are not good for them and elect some people who are not bent on the destruction of Israel and the death of the inhabitants.
Hamas has declared war on Israel, why should Isreal help them with anything at all? Why should the people who elected Hamas expect that Israel will help them?
I am not saying Israel is perfect and there are many things Israel has done that trouble me but this isn't one of them.
They appear to be justified in their actions.- chipsngravy, on 05/11/2008, -10/+10>>>If my neighbor was shelling me I would not supply him with power.
Naturally it wouldn't do to provide any context here. Such as the fact that Israel blew up the power station located in Gaza, or that Gaza is illegally occupied territory and Israel have an obligation under the Geneva conventions to meet the Gazan people's humanitarian needs.
>>>Perhaps the next time there is an election the people of Gaza will decide that terrorists
This attitude ridicules the concept of democracy. The people of Gaza have a right to elect whomever they want, it's none of Israel's business. Countless nations have former terrorists and war criminals in government: Israel has elected several despicable terrorists and criminals to office. However distatsteful we may find such scumbags you have to respect peoples democratic choices and be prepared to do business with their elected representatives. - monsieurginger, on 05/11/2008, -4/+7To those who compare Warsaw during the 1940's to Gaza now ---- damn those Jews at Warsaw would have LOVED to just have power and fuel supplies cut.
Gaza isn't occupied, its under siege.- chipsngravy, on 05/11/2008, -4/+4>>>Gaza isn't occupied, its under siege.
Which amounts to the same thing under international law, where an occupier is defined as the power who exercises "effective control" over a population. To use your example, the nazis didn't have permanent "boots on the ground" in the Warsaw ghetto, but there was no debate over who was in effective control over the population.- monsieurginger, on 05/12/2008, -3/+6Israel isn't administer of Gaza. It just controls the borders hence, siege.
- chipsngravy, on 05/12/2008, -5/+3Playing semantics doesn't get you anywhere. As I already pointed out the fourth geneva convention states that the occupier of a territory is the party who has "effective control" over that territory. Clearly Israel have "effective control" over Gaza so they are an occupying force. Feel free to make the same fallacious claim over and over. It won't become any more true by repitition.
Also Israel controls far more than the borders of Gaza: they also control airspace, sea access, population registry, electricity, water supply, medicine, food, fuel supply and countless other functions necessary to the proper workings of an independent state. Hence siege and occupation.
- chipsngravy, on 05/12/2008, -5/+3Playing semantics doesn't get you anywhere. As I already pointed out the fourth geneva convention states that the occupier of a territory is the party who has "effective control" over that territory. Clearly Israel have "effective control" over Gaza so they are an occupying force. Feel free to make the same fallacious claim over and over. It won't become any more true by repitition.
- monsieurginger, on 05/12/2008, -3/+6Israel isn't administer of Gaza. It just controls the borders hence, siege.
- cashman57, on 05/12/2008, -1/+6I put it in context and fail to see what your problem with my post is.
The people of Gaza chose terrorists. Those terrorists attack Israel every day. The people of Gaza complained about occupation and Israel removed jewish settlers. The Gazans then went in and completely destroyed those settlements including working greenhouses.
Gazans have no room to complain about power outages.They chose to elect people who want to kill the people who are supplying that power.They have no room to complain about shortages because it was the actions of those pterrorists they elected that led to the closings of the border on the Israeli side.
The wall and the closing of the border on the Egyptian side was due to the terrorism in Gaza. For that you cannot blame anyone but the people that electesd terrorists.
I am sorry you don't see what is happening there for what it is.- chipsngravy, on 05/12/2008, -6/+8That's the style cashman, stand firm in your delusions and don't give an inch to reason. When your points have been addressed and refuted, don't bother to counter said refutations, instead just pretend the refutations don't exist and continue repeating yourself, preferably in an even more verbose and bombastic manner. I'm sure with enough repititions you can convince yourself almost any piece of scurrilous propaganda is in fact true.
- urik88, on 05/12/2008, -0/+2I'd replace "cashman" with "chipsngravy".
- chipsngravy, on 05/12/2008, -1/+1Bully for you. Now please show a valid point made by cashman which hasnt been comprehensively addressed.
- urik88, on 05/13/2008, -0/+2The people of Gaza chose terrorists.
Those terrorists attack Israel every day.
The people of Gaza complained about occupation and Israel removed jewish settlers.
The Gazans then went in and completely destroyed those settlements including working greenhouses.
They chose to elect people who want to kill the people who are supplying that power.
The wall and the closing of the border on the Egyptian side was due to the terrorism in Gaza. - chipsngravy, on 05/13/2008, -1/+11-3 have all been addressed. I wrote at length about the Gazan peoples right to democratically elect whoever they like and the de facto existence of an occupation despite removal of troops. What are you sleep-posting? .
4 is a trivial point in the overall picture of the occupation. So they smashed up greenhouses? A pretty stupid thing to do, but hardly earth shattering in its importance.
5 is a different way of stating 1.
It's hard to see the relevance of 6 to anything that was being discussed, but I'd ask first of all where the citation is for this claim. The Rafah crossing was closed when EUBAM withdrew their monitors, the press release relating to the withdrawal is available on the EUBAM website and says nothing about withdrawing inspectors because of "terrorism in Gaza". No doubt that may have been one of the factors, but the defeat of Fatah, whom EUBAM were jointly contracted with to operate the crossing was also a major factor. - urik88, on 05/13/2008, -0/+2True that they have the right to democratically elect whoever they want. So it's also true that they should accept the consequences of that, and stop whining if Israel choses to stop providing them with electricity.
4 shows how much they are interested in improved their life instead of destroying the Jews (according to their words. Not mine).
5 is true, so it still hasn't been properly addressed.
6 shows how that siege is caused by the terrorists actions, thus being relevant IMO. Even Egypt chose to close its gates to the Palestinians. - chipsngravy, on 05/13/2008, -0/+1>>>So it's also true that they should accept the consequences
This point has already been addressed. Please read up. Democratic choices do not come with "consequences". No outside force has a right to punish a people for their freely made democratic choices. To make such a statement is profoundly anti-democratic.
>>> Egypt chose to close its gates to the Palestinians.
Egypt didn't close the border. The Rafah crossing was operated under a three party agreement between Egypt, Fatah and the EU. When Fatah lost control of Gaza the EU withdrew its inspectors awaiting clarification of the security situation. The crossing has not been able to function since. - urik88, on 05/13/2008, -0/+1"This point has already been addressed. Please read up. Democratic choices do not come with "consequences". No outside force has a right to punish a people for their freely made democratic choices. To make such a statement is profoundly anti-democratic."
Since the attacks are made by the leading party and representatives of the Palestinians, it's an act of war.
Do you find reasonable to provide with fuel and electricity the very same government attacking you?
Also, it's not a punishment. Israel was providing them with electricity, and then it just stopped providing. It's no punishment.
If you everyday give a coin to a hobo, and then one day you decide to stop, you're punishing him?
"Egypt didn't close the border. The Rafah crossing was operated under a three party agreement between Egypt, Fatah and the EU. When Fatah lost control of Gaza the EU withdrew its inspectors awaiting clarification of the security situation. The crossing has not been able to function since."
Wasn't the border closed before that, too?
- chipsngravy, on 05/12/2008, -6/+8That's the style cashman, stand firm in your delusions and don't give an inch to reason. When your points have been addressed and refuted, don't bother to counter said refutations, instead just pretend the refutations don't exist and continue repeating yourself, preferably in an even more verbose and bombastic manner. I'm sure with enough repititions you can convince yourself almost any piece of scurrilous propaganda is in fact true.
- chipsngravy, on 05/11/2008, -4/+4>>>Gaza isn't occupied, its under siege.
- hadees, on 05/12/2008, -2/+4Israel is supplying Gaza with power. Israel supplies 70% of the power for Gaza through power lines from Israeli power plants. This is just about the power plant in Gaza and Hamas has fuel waiting for them that they refuse to accept because they want more.
- chipsngravy, on 05/11/2008, -10/+10>>>If my neighbor was shelling me I would not supply him with power.
- LadyKofNYC, on 05/11/2008, -19/+12Typical Israel.
- Herkimer56, on 05/11/2008, -12/+14Typical mindless, soulless bigot, "Lady"K, blaming everything on the Israelis that she despises so much and failing to look beyond the Palestinian propaganda for the truth.
- LadyKofNYC, on 05/11/2008, -12/+14Herkimer56 quotables:
"Islam is a gutter religion"
"Black people have no right to declare that they're Black. They should just shut the ***** up and remain invisible"- Herkimer56, on 05/11/2008, -10/+22Please post the link where I made that comment about black people, liar. On second thought, I'll just report you to the abuse team for projecting your own ignorance on others.
- LadyKofNYC, on 05/11/2008, -12/+9You called me a racist because I said I was half black and I identify myself as a Black person. If you believe I'm a racist because I identify as Black, that means you believe that Black people should not Identify as Black, and should instead identify as nothing .... i.e, they (we) should all just shut the ***** up and remain invisible.
And of course you didn't dispute that you said "Islam is a gutter religion" as that's a word-for-word quote and expression of how you really feel about ALL Muslims.
You're a degenerate racist, herkle. Accept it. Embrace it. Love it. It's who you are. - yonoz, on 05/11/2008, -5/+10And what are you, LadyK? Because it sure seems like you have an obsession with Israel and Jews.
- Herkimer56, on 05/11/2008, -7/+9I called you a racist because you see *everything* in racial terms. I don't believe in the concept of separate "races" because, in fact, the very concept of separate races was created to justify why one group could justify their feelings of superiority over a different group. Much the way that you hold yourself as superior to the Jews. Are you not the one who wished for all Jews to get cancer and die? Are you not the one who has always supported Hamas and Hezbollah in their stated mission of killing all Jews? Are you not the one who has consistently supported the other Jihadist groups who have sworn to destroy the west and place all of us in slavery?
You need to face the fact soon that you're mentally ill. Get some help. - LadyKofNYC, on 05/11/2008, -9/+6I see everything in racial terms?
*****. Up until this week, you didn't even know I was Black.
""The very concept of race was created to justify why one group could justify their feelings of superiority over a different group""
Kinda like how you think you're superior to ALL Muslims and their "gutter religion". Plus, are you trying to argue that I invented the concept of race, crazy person?
""Much the way that you hold yourself as superior to the Jews."""
*****. I've asked you REPEATEDLY for proof of this Herkle, and you've yet to deliver
"""Are you not the one who wished for all Jews to get cancer and die?"""
***** LIE
"""Are you not the one who has always supported Hamas and Hezbollah in their stated mission of killing all Jews?""
***** LIE
""" Are you not the one who has consistently supported the other Jihadist groups who have sworn to destroy the west and place all of us in slavery?"""
You're ***** crazy
You're insane Herkle. . - Observant1, on 05/11/2008, -7/+7 / hands herkimer the hypocrit award.
- LadyKofNYC, on 05/11/2008, -8/+7The man is certifiable. Although, all those times he called me a White Supremacist for supporting Ron Paul *has* provided me with much comic relief over this past year. Hehehe ....... LOL ...... LMAO ........ ROTFL!!!
- Herkimer56, on 05/12/2008, -6/+5What does black have to do with anything, harpy? This week, last week and for the previous year or more you have blamed every possible bad thing you could find on the Jews simply because they are Jews. I haven't said that you are a white supremacist, I have said that you are a bigot because of your intense hatred of people of the Jewish faith. When I said that you were a soulmate to people like the scum in Storm Front is because of your unfaltering support for people whose soul goal in life is to kill as many Jews as possible. You are the one who brought racial labeling in to the argument in a desperate attempt to turn attention away from your own ignorance. Go ahead and laugh, bigot, but I don't see one damn thing funny about bigotry, intolerance, murderous hatred or you. You are clearly insane and idiots like Observant are just feeding your insanity.
- LadyKofNYC, on 05/12/2008, -2/+2.
What have I said about Jews, Herkle? When did I say I hated Jews or the Jewish faith, Herkle? When have I ever said something like "Islam is a gutter religion" or "Muslims are barbaric" when referring to Jews or Judaism, Herkle?
When have I pledged my support for "people whose soul gain in like is to kill as many Jews as possible", Herkle?
How many times am I going to have to ask for this, Herkle. You accuse me of hating Jews and making anti-Semitic statements, but you have yet to prove it. Why, Herkle? Because YOU ARE A LIAR, Herkle.
You and your boyfriend SSN are the ones who brought up the race issue in the first place, Herkle:
http://digg.com/people/Onetimer_s_stalker_banned_A ...
You stuck your foot in your own mouth, Herkle. Now man up and accept the fact that you're a Muslim-hating bigot, Herkle. And, Herkle, stop lying for God's sake!
- LadyKofNYC, on 05/11/2008, -12/+9You called me a racist because I said I was half black and I identify myself as a Black person. If you believe I'm a racist because I identify as Black, that means you believe that Black people should not Identify as Black, and should instead identify as nothing .... i.e, they (we) should all just shut the ***** up and remain invisible.
- MediaSight, on 05/11/2008, -6/+15Herkimer56, i still surprise they didn't blame Israel in the Cyclone in Burma...very strange!
- Herkimer56, on 05/11/2008, -7/+14I'm sure that in her heart she did.
- orientis, on 05/12/2008, -6/+6I don't think I've even seen her refer to 'Jews' more than once or twice. She talks mostly about Israelis, and more than that of 'Israel'. You are the one attempting to conflate anti-Israel sentiment with anti-semitism. You probably don't see, but this tactic hurts your cause more than it helps. When you morons start calling certain critical Jews anti-semitic the insane untenability of your position is made clear - not only to people like us, but to everyone in the mainstream. If you continue to reduce the debate over Israel to a crude schoolyard us-and-them mentality, you will be left on the emptier side of a large 'security barrier', being watched with contempt by the rest of the world, through the chain links.
- Herkimer56, on 05/11/2008, -10/+22Please post the link where I made that comment about black people, liar. On second thought, I'll just report you to the abuse team for projecting your own ignorance on others.
- LadyKofNYC, on 05/11/2008, -12/+14Herkimer56 quotables:
- Herkimer56, on 05/11/2008, -12/+14Typical mindless, soulless bigot, "Lady"K, blaming everything on the Israelis that she despises so much and failing to look beyond the Palestinian propaganda for the truth.
- MediaSight, on 05/11/2008, -7/+24Well, you can't choose terrorists as your leaders, that all they want it's to kill as many as they can, and waiting the victims to supply you electric, isn't? when you are starting a war, you must have the dignity to be responsible to the results. if the Hamas was really care about is own civilians he was using the money he has for better life, and not for terror/suicide acts that not going to bring anything positive.
- EnigmaOX, on 05/12/2008, -10/+8under the law no matter what happen the occupier must take care of civilians.
- monsieurginger, on 05/12/2008, -4/+13The last time I checked, Hamas controls Gaza. If it wants to care of its civilians than it is in their best interest to stop launching rockets at Israel and recognize Israel.
- MediaSight, on 05/12/2008, -3/+8EnigmaOX : occupier? one more lie? did you forget (or don't want to remind the readers here that Israel left Gaza and it's under the Hamas hands? of course the civilians in Gaza miss Israel.
- Kizilbash, on 05/12/2008, -9/+2Maybe you should check again. Hamas controls very little. Under international law Gaza is still considered occupied territory.
- hadees, on 05/12/2008, -2/+9Exactly, Hamas as the occupier should take care of the civilians instead of spending all their time building rockets. Otherwise they should give control back to the PA because before Hamas became the occupier Gaza was not occupied by anyone.
- Kizilbash, on 05/12/2008, -8/+3Bullcrap, Gaza is still Israeli-occupied territory. The PA and Hamas should really end the fiction that there is any kind of Palestinian control of any part of Palestine and stop collaborating.
- hadees, on 05/12/2008, -0/+7You say Gaza is still Israeli occupied but you have nothing to back that up with. If merely protecting a country's own border is your definition of occupation then Egypt is occupying Gaza. Did you also know Egypt has a wall along the border with Gaza?
- wpi97, on 05/13/2008, -0/+4Stop collaborating?!?! You mean like this? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7396987.stm
I think you have just abandoned all pretense, and showed your true face.
- Kizilbash, on 05/12/2008, -8/+3Bullcrap, Gaza is still Israeli-occupied territory. The PA and Hamas should really end the fiction that there is any kind of Palestinian control of any part of Palestine and stop collaborating.
- Dynamis, on 05/12/2008, -1/+3I don't want to get into the more intricate details here but just to clarify one thing. If you get blown up by one of their rockets then you are no longer responsible for them. Maybe you can at least agree about that and that will be a start.
- monsieurginger, on 05/12/2008, -4/+13The last time I checked, Hamas controls Gaza. If it wants to care of its civilians than it is in their best interest to stop launching rockets at Israel and recognize Israel.
- EnigmaOX, on 05/12/2008, -10/+8under the law no matter what happen the occupier must take care of civilians.
- Herkimer56, on 05/11/2008, -9/+19"Hamas is widely believed to be hoarding supplies of fuel for commercial vehicles, ensuring its loyalists get supplies first.
On Sunday, Ziad Zaza, a member of the Hamas government in Gaza, announced it would distribute fuel to bus companies to transport residents and students. Zaza did not say where the government obtained the fuel.
"This is another example of Hamas orchestrating an artificial crisis," said David Baker, an Israeli government spokesman."
http://www.startribune.com/world/18843769.html
I think that says everything we need to know about this latest propaganda stunt from Hamas.- cageybee, on 05/11/2008, -12/+9why should "US Americans" believe to what the Israeli government has to say??? or why should anyone believe to what you have to say??? Israel created all this mess in the first place in 1948.
- monsieurginger, on 05/11/2008, -4/+8If Jews were given the right to vote, no extra taxes for being non Muslim, given the right to run for office, and given protection and security, they would have never had to have Israel.
- urik88, on 05/12/2008, -0/+1No.
The Palestinian authorities created it by not accepting the partition plan.
Then after the war, the neighbors collaborated by not taking care of the Palestinian refugees like they promised to do.
- chipsngravy, on 05/11/2008, -5/+3An official Israeli government spokesman stated it? Well thats good enough for me...
- cageybee, on 05/11/2008, -12/+9why should "US Americans" believe to what the Israeli government has to say??? or why should anyone believe to what you have to say??? Israel created all this mess in the first place in 1948.
- cageybee, on 05/11/2008, -7/+5oh uj eti pidorovi sionisti
- kieranmaine, on 05/11/2008, -9/+6Why doesn't Israel just supply solar panels, so it doesn't even have to worry about this. With a distributed power system they could bomb who they want, without fear of killing the power for hospitals. I'm sure the international community could pay for it.
- monsieurginger, on 05/12/2008, -3/+5Obviously you don't know anything about solar panels.
- kieranmaine, on 05/12/2008, -3/+4Enlighten me then.
- hadees, on 05/12/2008, -2/+3well they don't work at night or when it is cloudy, Moot point anyway look at my comment below.
- kieranmaine, on 05/12/2008, -1/+3Solar panels do work when its cloudy - just not as much when in direct sunlight. You use batteries for night time usage. I suppose there low efficiency might not make them as useful as a solar thermal plant.
- hadees, on 05/12/2008, -2/+3well they don't work at night or when it is cloudy, Moot point anyway look at my comment below.
- kieranmaine, on 05/12/2008, -3/+4Enlighten me then.
- hadees, on 05/12/2008, -1/+6Israel is supplying 70% of the power through power lines. This story that refers to the power plant as, the main power station, is propaganda. Also Hamas has actually rejected fuel that Israel was trying to give them because they wanted more.
- kieranmaine, on 05/12/2008, -2/+2I know about Hamas rejecting fuel. If Israel are supplying 70% of power through lines it makes even more sense to give the Palestinians a distributed power network using solar - ensuring that Israel can't just turn the power off when it feels like it and making it harder for Hamas to punish their own people for propaganda purposes.
This company seems to offer an interesting solution http://www.nanosolar.com/ that they tout as being cheaper than normal Photovoltaics. I don't know if it is or not.
- kieranmaine, on 05/12/2008, -2/+2I know about Hamas rejecting fuel. If Israel are supplying 70% of power through lines it makes even more sense to give the Palestinians a distributed power network using solar - ensuring that Israel can't just turn the power off when it feels like it and making it harder for Hamas to punish their own people for propaganda purposes.
- wpi97, on 05/13/2008, -0/+3Why should Israel supply Gaza at all? Gaza is at war with Israel. Last I checked the UK did not supply Germany during WWII.
- monsieurginger, on 05/12/2008, -3/+5Obviously you don't know anything about solar panels.
- EnigmaOX, on 05/12/2008, -9/+3Arabs supply israel with oil and israel use it as a weapon against arab. How ironic is that
- TehProphet, on 05/12/2008, -3/+1Quick, their sonic emitters are down, time for a scorpion rush.
- bosssmiley, on 05/12/2008, -3/+10Nice going Hamas! Piss off the Israelis (two thirds of whom don't even want to fight the Palestinians) and the EU (who did back the Palestinian Authority until your "death to Israel" policy poisoned the well), then "Waaaah!" at lack of oil.
Another ***** little gangster government ruining the lives of their people through greedy misrule.- Kizilbash, on 05/12/2008, -6/+1The EU leadership are whiny little sniveling coward assholes where the Middle East is concerned who are falling over themselves to collaborate with the US. It's a shameful sight for any EU citizen.
- korvan504521, on 05/12/2008, -2/+6This blogg, blech, has no information other than that the plant is down. it doesn't say why, who caused it, or when it will reopen. For all we know it was a necessary outage for maintenance.
Spam.- hadees, on 05/12/2008, -2/+3Israel is sending fuel specifically for the plant as we speak, here is hoping Hamas will actually accept it unlike the loads of fuel that is just sitting there waiting for Hamas to claim it.
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