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- TinfoilHats, on 07/12/2009, -17/+414I had the honor of working on "Sicko". The horror stories you saw in the film made up far less than one percent of what people sent in.
- realeskimopimp, on 07/12/2009, -2/+3262001 - 51% of all Bankruptcies caused in part by Medical bills.
2008 - 62% of all Bankruptcies caused in part by Medical bills.
(Harvard Study)http://www.law.harvard.edu/news/2005/02/03_bankrup ...
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/02/business/02insur ...
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/conten ... - jezsik, on 07/12/2009, -7/+302Big business likes the status quo. If a citizen dares to challenge this, money is funneled to organizations that will ridicule such individuals and groups. We've seen it with researchers paid to question the links of smoking to cancer, the links of fossil fuel to climate change and, of course, any suggestion that there might be a better way to manage the nation's health care.
- inactive, on 07/12/2009, -11/+199Severely corrupt governments + corporations are why so many people are suffering!!! There are abundant resources on this planet for EVERYONE to have clean water, food, shelter, decent jobs, medical care, etc.!!!
- CheeseburgerBro, on 07/12/2009, -4/+184I'm Canadian. I don't lock my front door *or* pay through the nose to have my malignant tumours zapped by phasers.
Winter's too bloody long, though. - MiddleAmerica, on 07/12/2009, -7/+181
Amazing, the more you know, the more you wanna throw-up.
- DangerCollie, on 07/12/2009, -9/+176If you're going to revile Michael Moore, please do so with facts and supporting documentation. Because, in spite of all the noise and vitriol, I've never seen anyone able to prove he was wrong on a major point.
His research is first class. A lot of people don't like the message and attack the messenger. As Frank Rich points out, the politics of resentment are impervious to facts. - steelersfan7roe, on 07/12/2009, -10/+164Sicko is amazing.
Hate Michael Moore or not, closing your mind to the story in Sicko is just sticking your head in the sand. - MiddleAmerica, on 07/12/2009, -9/+161
I hope the Dems have the spine to stand up to the lobbyists this time, it could not be more important.
- Hrodrik, on 07/12/2009, -16/+156Michael Moore was right? No *****.
- inactive, on 07/12/2009, -5/+137Thank you
- durruticolumn, on 09/18/2009, -4/+107
"I hear more horror stories about people dying waiting for care in these single payer systems"
All health care is rationed, but right now, every other industrialized nation rations health care better than we do. - rocknog, on 07/12/2009, -1/+95How about the horror stories of people dying because they simply can't foot the bill for the cancer treatment they so desperately need, hmm? Oh wait, rationing is perfectly acceptable when it's only the poor who suffer, right?
- thelab101, on 07/12/2009, -2/+93Don't ya wish Tyler Durden's plan was to level all the health insurance companies?
- Threlly1, on 07/12/2009, -6/+91Universal, free healthcare is the greatest achievement of any free democratic society.
All religion and politics aside, it is our duty as human beings to care for those who suffer.
Humans, animals & environment. - DaryLintheDark, on 07/12/2009, -1/+78i'm Canadian too, and if our health system was like the u.s. my mom would not be halfway through her breast cancer treatment.
i'll take a cold winter if it means not dealing with a health care system that puts money over the wellness of the people. - inactive, on 07/12/2009, -1/+77People have a hard time accepting the truth.
It happens all over. Moore has a tendency and a history to spin his material the way he wants, but this is one that was entirely spot on.
With so many conspiracy theories and ***** going through life, it's hard to see someone claim this and think, "Wait, it's true"
What's even more baffling is our system IS screwed up, and anyone who's actually had to use their insurance for anything more complicated than a broken arm knows exactly how ***** up it is, how much they try to nickel and dime you, argue with your coverage, so on.
If you get cancer or get into a car accident that wasn't your fault, It's over: you're instantly a financial slave to them for life. - creepnitreal420, on 07/12/2009, -4/+73I live in Canada with socialized medicine and can't say I've heard any stories involving someone dieing due to lack of care. The health care here is 'rationed' by severity of illness/injury. If you have heart failure you'll be in surgery the moment you arrive at the hospital. If your knee goes to ***** and surgery is needed you might have to live through a couple months of pain. I'd rather wait a little than end up with a lot of money out my pocket.
- inactive, on 07/12/2009, -3/+70Excellent source. Thank you for posting it.
.
This is what I bring up every time some idiot republican comes at me with that working class hero crap about how he/she is the only one working hard for a living and everyone else is just leaching his tax dollars as if everyone who ever is in need of assistance is just being lazy. I remind them that tons of people across the country just got laid off for doing nothing wrong into a market where nobody is hiring. Then I point out that his/her greed and selfishness would be best served by making sure that everyone in this country had medical insurance and I site the stats that you just posted as evidence. Want fewer people going broke and living on welfare? Stop standing in the way of the things that would prevent it. - ElChapusero, on 07/12/2009, -3/+68Right, because having a bunch of sick poor people that can't afford basic healthcare does not cost your country (and therefore, you) a dime.
/s - Wojjie, on 07/12/2009, -2/+66I have had the privilege of experiencing both health care systems, and if I could, I would go back to the single payer system any day.
As I speak, I have certain minor health related issues I want to get checked out, but as a self employed business owner with a pre-existing condition I am forced to pay out of pocket, and guess what? I don't have thousands of dollars to get everything checked out. In fact if I get seriously ill, I will probably go bankrupt, like so many other Americans.
So I guess I could find some big corporation that will hire me and give me a health plan, just throw away my dreams, and possibly still go bankrupt if I get ill. But I guess that is the American dream of today isn't it? - Devoidarex, on 07/12/2009, -1/+63Amazing how you use the EXACT same talking points the corporate PR people hand out to politicians to bash a single-payer system. The same talking points described by the Cigna executive as nonsense parroted by paid-off politicos.
If the American system is so great, you ought to be able to point out JUST ONE COUNTRY trying to emulate the American system. Anyone? - dikky, on 07/12/2009, -3/+61yet you have no sources, cites or anything even remotely close to anything resembling proof to back your case up
- smacksaw, on 07/12/2009, -2/+57And those bankruptcies and medical bills are paid by those of us who buy insurance and pay taxes.
Seems to me that if we're going to have to pay for it one way or another, why not be proactive and compassionate?
Maybe if these people were not bankrupt, sick or dead, they could contribute to stimulating the economy by buying stuff and working to make money. - ChuckDees, on 07/12/2009, -3/+57Then we can give investment banks and wall street the bailouts they did earn. Wait, what.............?
- jmuh, on 07/12/2009, -1/+53"Among the other testimony heard by the Committee on Commerce, Science and Transportation was that of Robin Beaton. It reflected some of the insurance company tactics condemned by Potter.
It was a nightmare scenario. The day before she was scheduled to undergo a double mastectomy for invasive breast cancer, Robin Beaton's health insurance company informed her that she was 'red flagged' and they wouldn't pay for her surgery. The hospital wanted a $30,000 deposit before they would move forward. Beaton had no choice but to forgo the life-saving surgery.
Beaton had dutifully signed up for individual insurance when she retired from nursing to start a small business. She had never missed a payment, but that didn't matter. Blue Cross cited two earlier, unrelated conditions that she hadn't reported to them when signing up — acne and a fast beating heart — and rescinded her policy."
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/profile ...
I hate to be the one to break this to you, Rizzo, you ignorant parrot, but we already have "RATIONED" healthcare. The private insurance companies already RATION healthcare to line the pockets of shareholders. Absolutely, horrifyingly disgusting.
Oh, and for the millions of people who can't afford private insurance, I'm sure they'd risk dying in a waiting room instead of... just dying. - eliot2000, on 07/12/2009, -1/+52I'm starting to think they won't. It's almost to the point that I'd trade health care reform for a ban on lobbying and political contributions.
- MofS, on 08/13/2009, -2/+51I too, along with 91% of Canadians, prefer our national healthcare system to the US's private system.
"91 per cent, felt that Canada's health care system was better than the United States."
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNew ... - inactive, on 07/12/2009, -1/+50It's not that Moyers backed it genius. It's that a former CIGNA executive (who is far more qualified than you to make an accurate assessment) has backed it.
Watch the interview.
Having a political philosophy doesn't entitle you to be juvenile about facts that don't fit into it. An honest person, when confronted with facts which don't match their perception, re-evaluates the accuracy of their perception. - giveer, on 07/13/2009, -1/+50The government does not deny healthcare for a brain tumor in Canada.
The only area of difficulty: How fast you can get one. Obviously the person who went to the States wanted it done immediately, and yeah, sometimes that is an option.
The government does NOT dictate who gets healthcare and when. Doctors do their jobs. Period. They make no phone calls, they don't "check in" for permission, they just do their job.
Source:
Me. Canadian. Sister with cancer.
Please stop listening to people who try and tell you that a government controlled healthcare system means an elected official decides if you get healthcare or not. It's absolutely imbecilic. - NiftyG, on 07/12/2009, -4/+48Bankrupt the country?
You do realize that almost 2/3 of personal bankruptcies in this country are because of high medical costs. These aren't poor people, either. These are middle class people who actually pay for insurance but still get hit with high medical bills. - smacksaw, on 07/12/2009, -4/+46True, and Kurt Loder does have tremendous credentials about health care from his time at MTV when he did updates on Kurt Cobain's death. I mean, he died, so Kurt's got that, right?
- jayjayjoni, on 07/12/2009, -14/+55healthcare is a fundamental constitutional and human right. just as employment is, and as opportunity. Sorry healthcare professionals, your greed and lust for profit conflicts with my right to maintain a healthy life, something must be done.
- pinchduck, on 07/12/2009, -4/+45If we're going to go Big Government Health, please do it right. Obama's ideas are a patch on top of a patch. Pick the Canadian, UK or Australian models and revamp our system to be like that.
- drunkenoaf, on 07/12/2009, -2/+40No, please don't go on. It's plain you don't understand how community and society works.
Rationing on the NHS? That's specious.
For all of its faults, the NHS is fair for all, as it allows everyone good quality healthcare. Sure, there may be waiting lists for non-urgent procedures, but YOU ACTUALLY GET TREATED WELL EVEN IF YOU'RE POOR.
You might not get the mega-latest anti-cancer drug that will prolong your agonising pain for another three months if you're an OAP, because the cost of the drug is too high (google "herceptin NICE") but that's pharma's pricing partly to blame. Even in America, with insurance, your co-pays would be bankruptable for the same drugs in the same situation.
Rizzo, if you're in the US and you get seriously ill, with a chronic condition that doesn't have lots of good generic drugs out there to treat it -- even with insurance-- I really hope you're a multi-millionaire. Otherwise you're losing all your savings, and possibly more, just to stay alive. For that bit longer. - jayjayjoni, on 07/12/2009, -11/+49One of the greatest evils in this country is the pharmaceutical corporations. The highest paid big pharma CEO's were paid $22.2 million per last year. The average pharmacist that makes/distributes the pills earn an average of $100,000 a year. FAR above their worth.
See the amount of money here? This money can be taken and given to you, me, others that need it. - inactive, on 07/12/2009, -2/+40exactly... its one of the hardest ideas to grasp as a kid growing up. theres also enough people willing to work to make this place better, yet they really dont want everyone working and making money... that gives people power. (and keeps them healthy, which is bad for the pharmaceutical companies.)
- publiclurker, on 07/12/2009, -2/+39Oh, please, we all know that the only use embarrassing blowhards like you have for guns is to stick them in your pants where your dick would be if you had one.
- smacksaw, on 07/12/2009, -4/+39We do have guns, and I'll be standing there with the government to protect society from the likes of you. Then, once the din of your insanity is no longer heard, myself and others like me will change the government without you, and we won't use guns, but reasonable compassion, logic and fairness to do so.
- weeFred, on 07/12/2009, -0/+35Ok which British politicians don't use the NHS? You do know that Italy's health system is nationalised too? How does that fit in with opinion that nationalised health care is inferior?
- jayjayjoni, on 07/12/2009, -6/+41Why do wingnuts hate this country? Do you want this nation to fail?
Either you are with us, or against us. Pick a side, wingnut. - mimigins, on 07/12/2009, -3/+38"medical care they haven't earned"
I was of the impression everyone deserved health care. - durruticolumn, on 09/18/2009, -3/+37
What kind of rationing occurs for the 40 million americans who can't afford health insurance?
How long are their waiting times? - zuiquan, on 07/12/2009, -3/+36No. You are very wrong. The only people that deserve health care are those that are totally awesome like AWBoy666 up there. I'm sure he's done so much for this country that he totally ***** deserves it. Poor ***** like homeless veterans sure don't. If they did they wouldn't be poor. See, all you have to do is apply a little logic to a problem. Awesome people like AWBoy666 = best healthcare possible. Homeless veteran = get *****.
- GorfTron, on 07/12/2009, -3/+36Luntz, is that you?
- inactive, on 07/12/2009, -0/+32The British, French, and Canadians all have longer average life expectancy than Americans do and all three countries spend a smaller percentage of their GDP on healthcare than we do.
The fact that Cubans want to deflect is more of a reflection on their political system than there medical system.
As far as the number of MRI machines goes... great! That's one less thing to worry about after we make the switch. Your comment remains without substance with regard to your assertions about socialized medicine. - Taiyoryu, on 07/12/2009, -3/+34Loder is a free-market libertarian. He would still argue against the film's findings even if he were to concede that the facts were thorough, the interviews genuine, and the assertions were substantiated. The fact of the matter is a free-market approach cannot and does not work when it comes to insuring everyone is guaranteed a basic level of health care. You need only to look at the millions of uninsured to prove that. It is unethical to ration health care based on a patient's ability to pay.
Some would argue that things are the way they are because the free market isn't allowed to work because of the government. Yet, do you not find it strange that the health insurance industry does not ask for less government? Even without the government entanglements, I still doubt there would be an economic incentive to insure those that need it the most, namely the poor and elderly, because there's little profit in the former and the expense is too high for the latter.
The fact of the matter is, free-market economics is not a one-size-fits-all tool to fairly and equitably solving every socioeconomic problem out there. - iceeblue, on 07/13/2009, -3/+33How many people here condemning Sicko and more universal health care have actually had a serious illness. Let me know your thoughts when you are denied coverage or your co-pay is $10,000
- neonoodle, on 07/12/2009, -1/+31the stuff you hear is far less than one percent of the overall experiences.
- smacksaw, on 07/12/2009, -4/+33The average waiting time for someone with no insurance is longer than 6 months. It's the rest of their life.
Though it can be less than 6 months if they die before then from not having care at all.
See, I support your facts, just not your interpretation of it. Canada, where I live, has problems because of ideology. If we allowed more of a mix of the private sector, we would be fine. But the NDP pushes for this ideologically pure version of health care that does not allow for multiple tiers of service. Thus, we get reduced to the lowest common denominator. -
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