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Florida's population slowing to 30-year low
miamiherald.com — A University of Florida economics professor finds Florida's population's is dipping to 30-year low. The lower rate of growth is caused largely by people leaving South Florida, where the cost of living is driving them away from the region.
putergirl- 497 diggs
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- RepubOperative, on 03/31/2008, -4/+22Taxes in Florida in the last five years have gone up dramatically. The reason given was that previous hurricane seasons damaged the infrastructure and it needed to be rebuilt. Not sure if that holds water but I heard something along those lines.
- putergirl, on 03/31/2008, -1/+7You're right! Wages do not even come close to being able to cover expenses either. Wonder what the new hot spot is?
- aliengoods, on 03/31/2008, -0/+9You're both right, but there is a more obvious explanation. Could it be their retired population is dieing? After all, Florida is not only America's wang, but our nursing home and shuffleboard capital too.
- capiCrimm, on 03/31/2008, -2/+1so is Texas then our anus?
- popfrogs, on 03/31/2008, -0/+1I like to think of Florida as God's waiting room.
- aliengoods, on 03/31/2008, -0/+9You're both right, but there is a more obvious explanation. Could it be their retired population is dieing? After all, Florida is not only America's wang, but our nursing home and shuffleboard capital too.
- Cerebral, on 04/02/2008, -0/+1Well you are kind of right. It's NOT JUST home owner taxes but INSURANCE also. As long as you don't own a house you should be great. The sad thing is that it is BS. I remember (I believe on Digg) a list of revenue per state and I believe that FL was number 2 with about $750M. Also we don't have a state income tax so all that money was from tourism etc.
Also the sad thing is that nobody ever believes that the money is needed because of the hurricanes. I don't know why government (on any level) ever says anything but the fact that they mishandled money and wasted a good majority of it so they need more.
- putergirl, on 03/31/2008, -1/+7You're right! Wages do not even come close to being able to cover expenses either. Wonder what the new hot spot is?
- caccia, on 03/31/2008, -0/+3Peaked out eh'?
- olenick, on 03/31/2008, -1/+16I live in South FL and I can see why people would leave. I've lived all over the world and this area seems especially dysfunctional. Local government is especially incompetent. Many of the "snow-birds" -- older people who live here Sept-Apr -- bring a sense of entitlement and clog up the infrastructure. It's expensive: our high property taxes drive up the cost of everything (no income tax though). Our housing costs, even after adjustments, are still relatively steep and because of the speculator-boom many neighborhoods have broken down houses run as rentals or vacant. There is some upside -- we're close to the Caribbean and the ocean is beautiful -- but if you're looking for a warm place to be I'd recommend somewhere else.
- diulei, on 03/31/2008, -0/+5Don't come here to SoCal either unless you're willing to part with a good amount of money for housing and gas. Oh, and the time you'll spend in traffic.
- DrDragun, on 03/31/2008, -14/+8Miami = Baghdad, I don't know why anyone would want to live in that overrated hellhole.
I suppose this is somewhat good news for all the endangered critters that live down there and in the Everglades and reefs around the Keys.- blackdude, on 03/31/2008, -1/+7Yea I heard the insurgency was relocating there...
/are you ***** serious?
- blackdude, on 03/31/2008, -1/+7Yea I heard the insurgency was relocating there...
- whoreable, on 03/31/2008, -2/+40Is sucks so bad here even the Cubans are like ***** it we'll just stay in Cuba.
- cababika799, on 03/31/2008, -0/+8You have no idea how many people in South Florida wish this were true!
- fabriciom, on 03/31/2008, -2/+2All the Anglos where driven out buy the Cubans and now the Cubans are being driven out by central-americans specially the Venezuelans. I'm Cuban and I left in 2000, moved to Madrid with my father. I only return because my mother lives there.
- cababika799, on 04/01/2008, -0/+1Eventually the stacking affect will place all anglo's in Canada. I hate the cold!
- fabriciom, on 03/31/2008, -2/+2All the Anglos where driven out buy the Cubans and now the Cubans are being driven out by central-americans specially the Venezuelans. I'm Cuban and I left in 2000, moved to Madrid with my father. I only return because my mother lives there.
- vault, on 03/31/2008, -0/+4lol
- cababika799, on 03/31/2008, -0/+8You have no idea how many people in South Florida wish this were true!
- slvrbullet87, on 03/31/2008, -2/+5Damn i was hoping that all the old people finally died out.
- selmer, on 03/31/2008, -1/+23Live in Florida = home completely ***** up ever 5 years + huge elderly demographic + high taxes + subprime disaster +...
Wow, big surprise people are leaving.- cababika799, on 03/31/2008, -0/+11But we do have Disney....so thats a plus....until you've been there twice and have no reason to ever go back.
- TheSwashbuckler, on 03/31/2008, -1/+4"home completely ***** up ever 5 years"
Nah, you just have to get worried about it every year or two.
"huge elderly demographic"
Depends on where you live.
"high taxes"
You're daft. Florida is 38 out of 50 in state and local tax burden.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/335.htm ... - IronDonut, on 03/31/2008, -0/+1Florida doesn't have any income tax. It's actually has one of the lowest state tax burdens. Florida has it's tourists to thank for that.
- Brian47126, on 03/31/2008, -0/+8I live in Key West, and yeah I think taxes have something to do with it; however, the insurance rates have went insane here. Insurance companies assess rates including the value of the land--not just the house. The land is still gonna be there after mister hurricane takes away the home.
I looked at buying a home recently and it went like this:
650,000k home with a zero down loan at 3000 a month
1,000 for taxes a month
1,000 for insurance a month
So you are paying 5,000 a month for a home with a 0 down interest only loan.
And that is a screw job supreme... I don't make the kind of money needed to handle that, and thus I will have to rent here until I give up and move away.- miwi33040, on 03/31/2008, -3/+0you should get a higher paying job or go looking for a generous sugar daddy at the island house.
- hrhs556x, on 03/31/2008, -2/+4ummm yea dude you live in Key West, FL....
- Brian47126, on 03/31/2008, -2/+5yes, I live in Key West... some of us diggers are like adults and have real jobs and stuff
- popfrogs, on 03/31/2008, -0/+4*whoosh* His point is that Key West by definition is expensive.
- Brian47126, on 03/31/2008, -2/+5yes, I live in Key West... some of us diggers are like adults and have real jobs and stuff
- TomK88, on 03/31/2008, -1/+12The gateway to the Americas needs another cocaine epidemic. Without the drug money flowing in, Miami and South Florida is going to deteriorate.
- DeskFlyer, on 03/31/2008, -0/+7Don't worry, it'll triple again next winter.
- freakon, on 03/31/2008, -13/+2I'm from Miami and am rich as *****, so I welcome less people as It will let me buy a nice island for pennies on the dollar.
- roastedbagel, on 03/31/2008, -0/+9you mean mommy and daddy are rich as *****....if the statement is remotely true.
- freakon, on 03/31/2008, -3/+1Eh, It basically is my money.
- ChocChunkOaties, on 03/31/2008, -0/+8"I'm from Miami and am rich as *****, so I welcome less people as It will let me buy a nice island for pennies on the dollar."
What the ***** are you smoking?- khail250, on 03/31/2008, -0/+2the pennies on the dollar crack
- freakon, on 03/31/2008, -4/+1Hey you *****, just because I'm filthy rich doesnt mean I want to save my money. One day, elliot key will be mine.
- cababika799, on 03/31/2008, -0/+5Douche.
- fabriciom, on 03/31/2008, -0/+4That would be your typical Miami mentality. I'm SUPA rich. Just wait till I finish paying the loan on the loan for this loan.
- roastedbagel, on 03/31/2008, -0/+9you mean mommy and daddy are rich as *****....if the statement is remotely true.
- rplantz, on 03/31/2008, -0/+3Damn. I'm moving to Florida in two months...
- Cerebral, on 04/02/2008, -0/+1It's not as bad as it sounds. Ok so the taxes on your house and Insurance on your house and car suck. But as long as you only rent, you're good to go. The home insurance sucks because as others have said on here, it blew up after hurricanes and now they bundle the price of land into the cost of your home (which is *****) and some people have seen their insurance get jacked up over $11K/yr. My insurance did not go up (maybe I was already getting screwed) and actually it dropped a little. Car insurance sucks because in FL insurance is REQUIRED and this is a NO-FAULT state meaning that if some dude decides to drive into the side of you while he cuts over a median on a beautiful day, your insurance will go up as a result because again... it's nobody's fault. That's ***** as well. Not only these two things but some companies in this state, after you make a claim they will drop you (home and car) no matter how long of a customer you have been with them.
There is another thing as well that has been the root of some of the cause. A lot of big NATIONAL insurance companies here do not operate under their national name but under a subsidy so that when hurricanes do happen, those subsidies can claim they need help from the government and that they are broke when in reality they have tons of $. Well needless to say they end up getting their help money from the government and try their best to still not give what they should to homeowners who lost houses etc.
The last thing that sucks here as well (which they attempted to stop and I don't know what ever happened with it) is that because insurance is required for your car all these companies would just offer car insurance and NOT house insurance because there is a larger risk with giving house insurance which for these companies is a cash cow (car insurance). The practice was called cherry picking and they were trying to pass legislation that would not allow companies to offer the lower risk insurance (car) without offering the higher risk stuff (house).
It's crazy but then again I live in Tampa which I have a one hour ride to Orlando (Disney, Universal Studios etc.), I have 4 professional sports teams (Buccaneers, Lightning, Rays and Storm (arena football)) I can go see, I have a 30 minute drive to the beach, It's only an hour or so to get to the east coast beaches, lots of good shows come through town, no state income tax and Baseball spring training every year here means that baseball season is starting and that the snow birds are about to go home. It's not ALL that bad, just can be expensive.
- Cerebral, on 04/02/2008, -0/+1It's not as bad as it sounds. Ok so the taxes on your house and Insurance on your house and car suck. But as long as you only rent, you're good to go. The home insurance sucks because as others have said on here, it blew up after hurricanes and now they bundle the price of land into the cost of your home (which is *****) and some people have seen their insurance get jacked up over $11K/yr. My insurance did not go up (maybe I was already getting screwed) and actually it dropped a little. Car insurance sucks because in FL insurance is REQUIRED and this is a NO-FAULT state meaning that if some dude decides to drive into the side of you while he cuts over a median on a beautiful day, your insurance will go up as a result because again... it's nobody's fault. That's ***** as well. Not only these two things but some companies in this state, after you make a claim they will drop you (home and car) no matter how long of a customer you have been with them.
- KyleRayner, on 03/31/2008, -1/+8Florida is where old people go before they die. Kinda hard to expect population growth with that in mind.
- Cerebral, on 04/02/2008, -0/+1Did you not understand what you wrote? Old people GO HERE before they die. As long as there are lots of old people, there will be lots of people in FL. Sure they will pass but there is always someone else getting old and ready to come down here and drive slow as balls in the fast lane on the interstate!!!!!!!!!
- coit, on 03/31/2008, -0/+17Horrible grammar in this article. Hard to believe it was published. The populating isn't declining, the growth RATE is declining. Here's a classic error by the "journalist":
"In his study, Smith notes that the state's population growth is slowing because more people are leaving than moving into the state."
If more people are leaving than moving in, you don't have a growth rate.- smartpatrol, on 03/31/2008, -0/+3Thank you for pointing out the error in the headline. However, you can certainly have a negative growth rate or a growth rate of zero.
- raybury, on 03/31/2008, -0/+4The headline is certainly incorrect (the word "growth" is missing), but the statement you quote is not. You can still have growth with more out-migration than in-migration simply by having births exceed deaths by more than the excess of out-migration.
- EclipseGSX, on 04/01/2008, -0/+2It's hard to believe this was published by a reputable newspaper. Can they no longer afford editors?
"Florida's population's is dipping."
*****, yo!
- borez, on 03/31/2008, -0/+19Other gripping headlines: Old people eventually die
- SmellyFingers, on 03/31/2008, -3/+4I think this only applies to Florida's non-Cuban population.
- popfrogs, on 03/31/2008, -0/+1Ahh, the old 5% rule.
- homesickalien, on 03/31/2008, -0/+3Viagra may help old men fornicate, but it won't reverse menopause in old women.
- AtHomeBoy2000, on 03/31/2008, -1/+3Did they take into consideration all the old people dying?
- zaii7, on 03/31/2008, -0/+1where am i gonna get my orange juice for pennies on the dollar
- SpookyApplePie, on 03/31/2008, -0/+4Destin, FL is a nice place actually
- eminiguy, on 03/31/2008, -2/+4So you are guys are telling me that illegals are not taking over Florida? Man, that's a huge surprise.
I predict that 10 years down the road even the biggest bigots will jump on the bandwagon of welcoming to this country anyone whoever, most likely mistakenly, still wants to get into it.
So much about the population explosion in America... You better start thinking who is going to pay for your retirement. - Rethcir, on 03/31/2008, -0/+1Well, the tampa bay rays are gonna be good in a year or two.
- Cerebral, on 04/02/2008, -0/+1Hell yea! Go Rays. SI had an article saying they were the team of 2010. Which means that they may suck this year :) Hell though right now they are 1-0! This year is also the year of the Buccaneers. NFC South Champions again, straight to the Super Bowl @ Home baby!
- DaDrake, on 03/31/2008, -1/+4Its a good thing. Too many people living in environmental-disaster-prone areas in FL because the government forces insurance companies to give rates lower than the actual cost. First, this is bad because they past the cost to other consumers. Secondly, it actually encourages people to move in areas where houses simply shouldn't be built.
We don't need another Katrina.... - zaii7, on 03/31/2008, -1/+3answer : old people don't *****
- Cerebral, on 04/02/2008, -0/+1I think they do... they just don't "reproduce".
- skyz, on 03/31/2008, -0/+2not on south beach - there is so much new construction and so many people it is a little intimidating - almost like a tropical bit of manhattan - less people would work or me -
- CCmachined, on 03/31/2008, -2/+1buried for title. florida's population _growth_ is at a low, not canada's population itself. It's as high as ever.
- mrzack, on 03/31/2008, -2/+2slowing? what happens when you take out the illegals out of the equation?
- popfrogs, on 03/31/2008, -1/+2All the Taco Bells close.
- neopherine, on 03/31/2008, -2/+2My ex-girlfriend, who moved to florida, has 6 kids with his new boyfriend, there is no way florida's population is slowing down.
- popfrogs, on 03/31/2008, -0/+5Did you post a comment on her Myspace telling her that her vagina isn't a clown car yet?
- helimeef, on 03/31/2008, -0/+0I live there and the only reason I would leave is because of heat, the fact that global warming will eat us alive, or if Tallahassee got bombed by terrorists or something...
- Cerebral, on 04/02/2008, -0/+11) If you don't like the heat then why the hell have you not left already? 2) If global warming is in fact true and is happening quickly then yes, the fact that FL is pretty much at or below sea level (in some areas) means that we will be under water which in that case unless you live in a house boat then it would be impossible to even LIVE in FL because it won't exist. 3) Why would you think terrorists care about Tallahassee for anything? Hell I'd bet they don't even know that it's the state capital. There are more attractive targets in FL for terrorists to bomb: Miami, Orlando and Tampa (cent. com.) quickly come to mind.
I don't think you have anything to worry about there. You don't have to leave.
- Cerebral, on 04/02/2008, -0/+11) If you don't like the heat then why the hell have you not left already? 2) If global warming is in fact true and is happening quickly then yes, the fact that FL is pretty much at or below sea level (in some areas) means that we will be under water which in that case unless you live in a house boat then it would be impossible to even LIVE in FL because it won't exist. 3) Why would you think terrorists care about Tallahassee for anything? Hell I'd bet they don't even know that it's the state capital. There are more attractive targets in FL for terrorists to bomb: Miami, Orlando and Tampa (cent. com.) quickly come to mind.
- gametavern, on 03/31/2008, -1/+2running out of cubans on cuba or something?
- Cytranic, on 03/31/2008, -0/+2I wouldnt want to be anywhere else. Bimini 50 miles from Boca, Hot chicks, awesome beaches, more activities then you know what to do with. I've been here all my life, and I will die here. South Florida rocks.
- hotsh0t5, on 03/31/2008, -1/+2Don't forget the food. How can you forget the food??
- Cockdiesel, on 03/31/2008, -0/+0SHHHHHH. Moron. You want another Atlantis to be built there.
- smartpatrol, on 03/31/2008, -0/+1Oh no, our population's is dipping!
- Wander2000, on 03/31/2008, -1/+4I live in Miami. If you buy an 'average' home here for say $300k; taxes and insurance alone will run you 10k per year. Your mortgage of about $1750 per month comes out to 21k per year. Thats a total of over 30k in cash that you have to find just for the house. If you can find a decent job here that pays $50k per year, after federal taxes you might have enough for food. In my corner, 3 out of 7 homes are in foreclosure.
But hey - "The World is Safer without Saddam Hussein"!- regeya, on 03/31/2008, -1/+4What the hell does Saddam Hussein have to do with morons spending $300k on a house in a disaster-prone, low-wage area, and with banks stupid enough to give the loans?
- Cerebral, on 04/02/2008, -0/+1I can double the fact that in FL the wages have not kept up with inflation or cost of living here. Although you may just be looking for a home where you shouldn't be looking for one.
- ireland88, on 03/31/2008, -0/+5Thank god, I love south Florida and have witnessed what the population growth dose to small beach towns like mine. It seems like Florida lost it's culture before it had time to create it, and the cost of living is ridiculous even in rural areas. I live in Orlando right now and I hope every one moves the traffic is horrible.
- Magillicutti, on 04/01/2008, -0/+2I can't stand living in Orlando
- paker, on 04/01/2008, -0/+3Amen! Thin Florida out a bit!
- Cerebral, on 04/02/2008, -0/+3It won't happen... Especially in Orlando where they have tons of tourism which should... and I stress SHOULD increase with the falling rate of the dollar in the international market.
That being said, I need to take another trip to Disney to ride Pirates then take the bus over to Animal Kingdom. The detail in those parks is amazing.
- Cerebral, on 04/02/2008, -0/+3It won't happen... Especially in Orlando where they have tons of tourism which should... and I stress SHOULD increase with the falling rate of the dollar in the international market.
- psykiv, on 03/31/2008, -0/+1Good. Maybe I won't have to put up with as much traffic when going places. Not to mention property prices will start going down :)
- Cerebral, on 04/02/2008, -0/+1Although I own a house and don't want prices to drop, I welcome the market to "fix" itself. It got WAY too inflated and should never have gotten as big as it did. People are dumb.
- Andia83, on 03/31/2008, -0/+2Well it sure hasn't had any impact on the traffic!
- Cerebral, on 04/02/2008, -0/+1Hopefully increasing gas prices will help that :)
- VinnieDaMac, on 03/31/2008, -0/+1Probably has something to do with the HQ of Scientology located in FL. =)
- Cerebral, on 04/02/2008, -0/+1Clearwater... and from what I've come to understand they own about 80% of the city(downtown area).
- Cockdiesel, on 03/31/2008, -0/+0It's slowing because everyone already lives there.
- bingobongony, on 03/31/2008, -1/+1The retirees are dying. Case solved.
- crunshii, on 03/31/2008, -0/+3Yea it is REALLY bad. I live in Miami...
- Insurance rate go up every year. Kids are screwed till 25 with over $300-400+ on just insurance.
- Home's value are dropping like flies. Home owners who can't pay them have already filed for foreclosures > Which leads to other houses within the neighborhood house prices to also drop.
- Taxes have gone up in all sections.
- All of Miami keeps building new Condos, houses, apartments, with no end in sight, and no one to fill them up.
- TRAFFIC IS A BITCH! from 3pm to 8pm, takes 1-2h to travel from home to work & vice versa to most of the population.
- Gas is almost $4 a gallon
- Immigration is increasing every year
- Crime rate keeps going up and up.
The only thing that is keeping people here is that there are some good jobs here and there. There is always work for allot of people, but even if you have a good paying job, its hard to survive. Most of my friends are living paycheck to paycheck to being able to pay for their mortgage and maintain their family with enough food to survive. People here are living of Credit Cards to survive and that just brings in more debt. Then hurricane season comes and insurance just decide to go up, wether there are hurricanes or not, they keep going up in prices. The Speedpass Sunpass highway, has double from 2005-08 charges to the highway. used to be $.75, now its $1.50...
This is a serious problem, and we honestly don't see any solution to any of this. People who even want to move out cant, we are stuck here. - tango1110, on 03/31/2008, -2/+1Mexicans and old people just aren't as exciting as they used to be.
- jakeoooh, on 03/31/2008, -1/+4As someone in their 20's, that moved out of South Florida (Palm Beach County) in the past year, I echo the observations in this article. The majority of my friends from Florida have moved, or are in the process of trying to move out. I relocated back to North Carolina, which is where I went to law school, mostly because of the cost of living in Florida. I was renting a 1100sq/ft apartment for around $1300 a month, about 6 miles away from the beach. Here, I custom built a 2300 sq/ft home, in a gated community, and my mortgage payment is around $1200 a month. A few of my employees that relocated from Florida when I moved my company, are paying around $500/mo rent here, versus $1000+ for comparable places in Florida... Friends that own homes are faring much worse off down there, with the huge hike of property taxes and insurance rates after the hurricanes a few years ago- talking an increase of like $10k, for a $300k house...
And, with regards to the comments about illegal immigrants, I would imagine those numbers are on the decrease as well. They have, in the past year or two, started to crack down really hard on illegals- hitting business owners with $10k fines, shutting down apartments that rent to illegals, arresting and holding legal immigrants for not carrying proper documentation, etc.
The fact that Florida has no state income tax is still a good draw, but with the cost of everything else, it doesn't really balance out. - o0joshua0o, on 04/01/2008, -0/+2When people can't afford to live somewhere, they tend to move elsewhere.
- Osahar, on 04/04/2008, -0/+1Ted Turner Calls for Population Control
http://www.thirdeyeconcept.com/forums/index.php?pa ... - IrishJerk, on 06/04/2008, -1/+0Well I really I don’t care how much your taxes and insurance is, most of the people in South Florida are from somewhere else anyway. So quit screwing up my state and go back to yours, and take a Cuban with you under each arm.
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