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First hand account on the UCLA Taser use

messageboard.tuckermax.com — Apparently this guy was asking for it. This thread has some posts from a first hand witness.

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  • masgrada, on 10/12/2007, -17/+57Yea, I thought I heard him yelling at them even before he got tazered. But near the end they should have just picked his dumb ass up and carried him.
    • ghm101, on 10/12/2007, -38/+122Sure the guy was asked to leave and should have, but I think it all about the level of force used.
      Two terms often used in these situations are

      “Minimum required force”
      And
      “Proportionate force”

      No matter what the guy was saying, how provocative, was tasering him necessary? Or just an abuse of authority by a power mad cop.

      After tasering him and they guy is on the ground, They tasering him again. Was that required? Or actually something that would make it less likely that he leave the building.

      A skilled cop would have been able to talk the guy out, A couple of less skilled cops would have been able to just drag his ass out of there, no one would have raised an eyebrow.

      These cops where neither.

      Respect has to be earned, these cops don’t have mine, I thank ***** I don’t live in their jurisdiction.
    • jawadde, on 10/12/2007, -37/+6@ghm101 : comment dugg for the expression 'i thank *****'. That and showing commmon sense
    • rlutterb, on 10/12/2007, -17/+37I watched the whole thing a couple of times... should the cops have tasered him repeatedly? *****, no. But contrary to various opinions, the kid could've gotten up and walked out, even after being tasered.

      But RTFA... this is from somebody who knows the dude. Who DOESN'T know an a-hole like this who's just waiting to start this kind of *****?

      Quote:
      "Let me start off by saying that the guy DEFINITELY was asking to get his ass kicked. He was being extremely rude with the campus patrol guys (who are college students...this was before the real UCPD got called in). He was not complying with their requests to leave the premises, and he was definitely itching for a fight. I actually know the guy and a few of his friends, and I can tell you that he's the kind of guy that loves to make trouble.

      Just as a little backstory, one of the quotes the guy has on his facebook (which he now has taken down) was "I like to find the most difficult solutions to the simplest of problems"."
    • therealduckie, on 10/12/2007, -43/+22He did not deserve that. And it should NOT have been carried out in in the witness of so many people.

      That much force should ONLY have been used on a threat. He was NOT a threat.

      and those 'first hand' people?

      Hearsay. period.

      marked as innacurate

    • y0bailey, on 10/12/2007, -26/+14A skilled cop would have been able to take the kid down, but who is to say that wouldn't hurt or cause more damage than a simple drive-shock tasering. What if he woulda scuffed his knee....that woulda been more damaging than the 5 tasers. What if he got his arm broke when a cop or two piled on to subdue him....way worse than a taser.

      Tasers are no comparison to guns....so don't even try.
    • makeaprettycake, on 10/12/2007, -46/+30I am shocked by the amount of people claiming this guy "had it coming." The reason he was shouting "here's your patriot act" was because he doesn't have the right to shout anymore.
    • Lisztman, on 10/12/2007, -11/+38@makeaprettycake:
      Well duh. He's in a library. =P
    • klaymen, on 10/12/2007, -25/+4Stop abusing the first comment. Why are all these people not being dugg down?
    • Asianwaste, on 10/12/2007, -16/+18Freedom of speech doesn't warrant making an ass of yourself in a library.
      Given it doesn't warrant 5 taserings but perhaps the lower taser settings are actually in their SOP's.
      I can see that to be true as well. Using barehanded control techniques can get ugly fast. If the suspect so much as bangs his head on the floor while your trying to get control of him you are immediately liable. If you don't touch the suspect you won't be held as liable. But this is just a hypothesis.
    • actorboy, on 10/12/2007, -15/+29From the article: "He was not complying with their requests to leave the premises, and he was definitely itching for a fight."

      Itching for a fight and taking a swing at someone are two different things. If the tasers were not used in self-defense, then they should not have been used. Did he take a swing to warrant the first tasing? I don't know. But I know that he didn't take an action to warrant the others.
    • kremvax, on 10/12/2007, -41/+36There's just something Orwellian and twisted about a group of police repeatedly tasering a man to the ground, then immediately yelling at him to Stand Up... Then taser him to the ground again... over and over and over. 5 times in the span of 10 minutes.

      All for failing to produce a library card...?

      Welcome to Bush's America. The terrorists have already won.
    • Highborn, on 10/12/2007, -12/+40I used to live with a San Jose Cop.

      He used to say things like:

      "You know what my favorite thing is? Pulling your gun on a random person, watching them squirm, and then saying 'oh sorry wrong ***** guy'".

      That doesn't mean that all cops are bad.

      I think the kid was probably being an ass, but the tazer was unessecary. Cops are pretty observant, as they have to be. They could easily find a reason for 'probable cause' to search your vehicle when they need to, on the other end they could easily use the same observation skills to tell that this guy was a student, ID or not.

      The kid was being an ass, but in my opinion the cops definately over reacted. They could have easily cuffed him, twisted his little bitch arm and brought him in.

      They tazed him to be assholes, and now they are ALL in the wrong.
    • dboylon, on 10/12/2007, -14/+29An exponential increase in the use of tasers by police officers has resulted in increased deaths. A small percentage of people who are tasered are killed. The number of deaths has increased into the hundreds this year. This is the first year it has been in the hundreds. If the police officer uses his guns he knows he is likely to kill so he is hesitant to use it...he is trained that a taser in non-thethal tool so he has lower inhibitions towards using tasers. If the student was leaving the building...why did they not let him go? Since when is "being difficult" against the law? Americans have become such pathetic sheep...so eager to bow down to their masters. It is pathetic.
    • halleyscomet, on 10/12/2007, -10/+24@y0bailey

      You seem to have a few misconceptions about Tasers.

      They are NOT "non-lethal" weapons. Taser International is actually facing a number of lawsuits over Taser related deaths. As a result of government lawsuits, they have been forced to change their advertising from "Non-Lethal" to "less-Lethal" when describing the weapons.

      Many towns are changing their rules on how stun guns are used. Specifically, new regulations are requiring them to only be used in place of a gun. In other words, if you can't justify using a gun in a given situation, then you should be using a stun gun.
    • iceperson, on 10/12/2007, -8/+16Tasers are a relatively new part of police equipment. Makes one wonder what these "cops" would have done without the taser on hand, shoot him maybe? I'm not saying that tasers don't have a place in policing, I'm just saying that it's not the best tool for every job. These cops were clearly sadists and shouldn't be allowed to wear the uniform.
    • hasbeen, on 10/12/2007, -10/+30For all the people trying to justify how the cops handled the situation... how do you excuse the numerous threats made to bystanders who were asking for badge numbers? Regardless of whether or not the kid 'had it coming', this alone shows me that the cops were power hungry pieces of *****.
    • korehyun, on 10/12/2007, -16/+8Uhhhhhhh........ I was there at the library too and the guy did not totally deserve it. I know the guy too and he is a really cool guy. Straight A student. Someone anyone can bring home and introduce to your parents. And, uhhhhh.... yeah.

      Come on get out of here I believe that guy was there at the library just as much as you believe I was at the library. Give me a break!!!!
    • redrevolt, on 10/12/2007, -17/+6as i mentioned in my comment, the guy was not tased, a taser shoots out wires that pierce the body, the kid was stun gunned. And yes, i have been stun gunned, it hurts, but is in no way incapacitating. Furthermore, quit posting the studies on the effects of tasers! IT WAS NOT A TASER IT WAS A STUN GUN!!!
    • thecrystalship, on 10/12/2007, -6/+9Like I said before, he might of had the first taser coming to him, but after that they should have picked him up and dragged him to the cruiser. How many cops were there? Also it was reported that the cops threatened bystanders which is illegal, must not forget that. I admit the kid is a douche, that whole patriot act rant was embarrassing for everyone, but the cops didn't follow protocol.
    • raindogmx, on 10/12/2007, -4/+28Authotities MUST NOT use the force because they're angered, they should only use it when it is NEEDED.
    • ClassicJBC, on 10/12/2007, -3/+22It's horribly ironic that I should cite the 60s as grounds for good police behavior, but how can you say using a stun gun or taser is justified when for years officers have been able to handle difficult situations without them. Look at protest videos from the Vietnam era. What do you see? You see students resisting arrest, going limp, trying to make it hard on the officers. And what do the officers do? With a few exceptions, they just put forth a little extra effort, pick up the kid, and carry them away.

      What does being difficult get you now? 100,000 volts.
    • kooft, on 10/12/2007, -7/+27It's always good to have an unbiased eyewitness to set things straight:

      "By the way, UCLA is filled with hippie/hipster Che Guevara t-shirt wearing down with capitalism spewing *****"

      "The guy wasn't going anywhere until he got tazered. It was a bait tactic on the part of tazer-boy. When the cops initially asked him to leave he was limp like a drunk's dick."

      "I'll take my buddy's digital camera and get pictures of our protest tomorrow so you can see these college-aged convenient liberals in all their pussy-footing complaining glory."

      True, I didn't search every quote this eyewitness posted, but I think he left out a few words like *****, kike, jew, etc.
    • captinherb, on 10/12/2007, -2/+17@redrevolt
      "And yes, i have been stun gunned, it hurts, but is in no way incapacitating"

      From Wikipedia "Two to three seconds will often cause the subject to become dazed and drop to the ground, and over three seconds will usually completely disorient and drop an attacker for at least several minutes and possibly for up to fifteen minutes."

      Or how about this quote "73 cases of death following stun-gun use" from:
      http://www.azcentral.com/specials/special43/articles/0915taserlist16-ON.html
    • dwiezel, on 10/12/2007, -5/+7@KREVMAX

      What are you talking about? Are you trying to tell us that nothing like this happened during the Clinton presidency? Rembember WACO -- the murder of innocent women and children!

      While I do not agree with the approach to getting this guy to leave the library, can you blame George Bush for everything that is wrong in the world?

      Give me a break!
    • Herolint, on 10/12/2007, -4/+14I find this discussion interesting. When we are talking here on Digg about pouring water up an enemy's nose or making an enemy wear panties on their head in order to obtain tactical information, that is torture and it is bad. However, because this guy in the video is an "ass", some think that's alright and he deserves it. To me, what happened here on the video qualifies much more as torture than do feminine undergarments.

      The other thing I found interesting in the video is how when the onlookers had finally had enough and started yelling at the cops, the one tells them to go away or get blasted as well. Now that's intelligent. I'd hate to be that guys kid. "Eat your peas dammit, or I'll shock you into next week.

      Also, some comments have said that the kid was going beyond "freedom of speech", and that may have been true, but the other people weren't and the cop had not right to limit the student's speaking out against the cops behavior.

      Don't pay attention to me though. I have absolutely no respect for police officers whatsoever.
    • appetite, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4The cops went overboard. The kid went overboard. Videos of arrests make them seem worse than they are. The debates and headlines are overboard.

      Patriot Act had nothing to do with this. It was inexperienced cops (everyone knows how campus police are) who didn't know how to handle the situation, they made a threat and the kid didn't comply so they thought they had to follow through with it. It sounds like the guy purposefully put the cops in that situation and so baited them into it. We're all suckers for coming to his defense.

      The pain doesn't last. The cops should have dragged him out, and they were stupid. From now on, cops will drag you out and when you bump your head on the stairs and bleed, are you going to call it brutality again? The video is more a caricature of the situation than anything.

      I'm not conservative, I just think this kid was a manipulative little *****.
    • martalli, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2"proportionate force"

      If the police had to wait for you to hit them, or pull a gun, before they used a billy club or taser, then they would be simply beaten pulps. You and I would be paying for their diability checks and healthcare for the rest of their lives.

      If you listen to the nightly news, you might hear about all kinds of shootings, robberies, rapes, etc. Who deals with those people? The police! Your average child-abductor/rapist might be living right next to you in a leafy Vienna suburb. The police approach every situation with trepidation. If you are scared of the police, or what will happen, the best way to calm every situation is to simply act calmy, and calm them down. If you're not bin Laden, they will figure it out quick enough.
    • martalli, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3"Since when is "being difficult" against the law? Americans have become such pathetic sheep..."

      Since "disorderly conduct" was illegal. Wikipedia quotes Indiana law (likely very similar to other states' language):

      A person who recklessly, knowingly, or intentionally:

      (1) engages in fighting or in tumultuous conduct;
      (2) makes unreasonable noise and continues to do so after being asked to stop; or
      (3) disrupts a lawful assembly of persons;

      Seems like our fella pretty muich hits (2) on the head.
  • Wayward, on 10/12/2007, -11/+35"An FBI investigation prompted by video footage of a man being punched repeatedly in the face by police has demonstrated anew the power of the Internet sensation of the year, YouTube.com."

    How is that any different from tazing some guy after he's been cuffed? If those cops had gotten their hands dirty beating on the guy instead of using a taser, no one would be defending them.
    • wicketr, on 10/12/2007, -16/+15Do you guys not understand the difference between a guy who is willing to do whatever the cops want and a guy who is still completely disregarding the police.

      After the first few hits with the baton, Rodney King would have complied with them. They beat him continuously and gave him no instructions. They beat him for no reason. In this situation, the police said he was coming with them, he said no. They tazed him. They told him to stand up numerous times, he said no. They tazed him again.

      They were not holding him down and tazzing him over and over for no reason. He wouldn't follow simple orders. Had he said "Ok officers i surrender" and followed every order to the 'T' and the cops then taze him repeatedly, then yes, that would be police brutality, but this is not.
    • iceperson, on 10/12/2007, -11/+11"They were not holding him down and tazzing him over and over for no reason. He wouldn't follow simple orders."

      So if this happened a few years ago before they had tasers would it have been ok to shoot him with their guns? No, because there are other methods that work.
    • wicketr, on 10/12/2007, -8/+10good gosh, there is a difference between a taser/stun gun, and a gun. Or do you not realize that? If this would have happened 2-3 years ago they would have used a baton for non compliance. And the kid would still be bruised. If this was an outside altercation, they would have used pepper spray. Stun guns are the more "humane" way of subduing criminals these days. Do you want them to go back to using batons?

      And that's retarded if you actually think the cops would have gone "stand up"..."no"..." stand up or we're going to shoot you".
    • Bullsnot, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4The tazer was developed to replace the gun as a non-lethal stopping force. It was never intended to be used in non-emergency situations. Only a replacement for when a gun would have been used, not a replacement for cuffs.
      Would the cops have used guns is a very appropriate statement
    • Mu99ins, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Bullsnot is incorrect.
      The stun gun is not a replacement for a firearm.
      For one thing, you have to get too close to use
      the stun gun. The previous entry to Bullsnot's is correct.
      The stun gun is an improvement on the billy club,
      or blackjack. It's used to disable the individual,
      not kill or wound him as a firearm is intended.
    • Bullsnot, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The technologies limitations does not change it original intention. If they could make a stun gun with the range of a conventional gun they would. That does not change the fact that it was intended to replace a weapon of "lethal force". Allowing the officer to subdue a violent individual at a distance without killing them. If it was intended to replace billy clubs they would have stuck with stun batons.
  • Azur2, on 10/27/2007, -15/+47The tazer is the second-last line of force available to a policeman. It's intended for use in situations where it is not quite appropriate to shoot to kill, but negotiation has failed and manually subduing the suspect is too dangerous to the police or to civilians.

    Does this seem to cover the UCLA situation? To anyone?

    The cops acted unprofessionally and escalated (by grabbing the student when he was already complying with the cops orders and was headed for the exit, and then using a tazer repeatedly) a situation which did not warrant escalation.

    I've said it before: these cops were either unskilled, or they had something against students in general, or against this student in particular. In either case they're unsuitable for their job.
    • dboylon, on 10/12/2007, -4/+20The report said he got up to leave when the police arrived. Since he was leaving why did the cops have to escalate the situation. Since when is being difficult a crime? He was a student for crying out loud. He paid his tuition. Cops are too eager to use force nowadays.
    • wicketr, on 10/12/2007, -10/+5So you're saying they should have used the baton or pepper spray first?
    • wicketr, on 10/12/2007, -15/+12The cops weren't the first ones to tell him to leave. The librarians said it, the student security team said it and then the cops were called. At that point he was trespassing and deserved to be taken to jail.

      Just because the cops aren't around doesn't mean you have the right to act like an ass till they arrive.
    • Caulfield, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9@wicketr:
      Correct. They should have. Or how about a simple take-down and cuff him? He was unarmed and outnumbered. If cops can't subdue an outnumbered and unarmed individual without *any* assistance from baton/pepper spray/tazer, they shouldn't be employed.

      What if the tazer had killed him? It's been known to happen (not often, but nonetheless):
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tazer#Deaths_.26_Injury_associated_with_stun-gun_use
    • Jolene, on 10/12/2007, -11/+9If you live in the US, and you're a citizen. You have the right to be an ass no matter WHO is around.


      Amendment I

      Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

      It doesn't say "freedom of being kind and compliant." While I don't support the action of always being an ass. I do support that you have the right to be one.
    • elhaf, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2What makes you think it is second only to shooting them? It has less long-lasting effects than hitting them with batons. Once you stop tasing, it stops hurting.
  • gvetterick, on 10/12/2007, -17/+22I thought the video was a pretty first hand account...
    • klaymen, on 10/12/2007, -7/+21no, that certainly wasn't from the beginning of the incident.
    • vulcanius, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1So where are the real details of the account. All this guy says is his personal opinion. There are no factual details with proof they are are indeed factual.
  • TheToecutter, on 10/12/2007, -32/+27Here's the deal. The kid sounds like a punk assed bitch. The cops overdid it, they should have just dragged his ass out.

    But at the end of the day the cops are always second guessed while the punk assed bitch secures lawyers.
  • y0bailey, on 10/12/2007, -30/+20Finally someone who knows something about this story. All these retards ragging about the cops being the most evil people ever when having no back-story at all. It is so funny to watch these idiots start hating on something even though they have no knowledge of the story at all.

    Digg this down most of you retards, but you just got served.
    • night141, on 10/12/2007, -17/+8This is probably going to get knocked off the front page
    • y0bailey, on 10/12/2007, -16/+12Oh no doubt...probably because it makes a 1000 reply topic posted yesterday with all these ***** morons on their soap boxes look dumb.
    • PictureMeRollin, on 10/12/2007, -14/+11Its not "...all these retards ragging about the cops being the most evil people ever when having no back-story at all..." its people calling the officers out on the blatant use of excessive force given the situation. Completely unnecessary use of the taser.
  • Switchnig, on 10/12/2007, -22/+16when i saw the video and heard him yelling, i knew he deserved the taser. no ID? then leave.
    • Sirocco, on 10/12/2007, -11/+23For a moment I thought the students were going to riot. ***** pansies. The appropriate response would have been "Good, now I can get back to my studies."
    • y0bailey, on 10/12/2007, -21/+6If I saw this asshat in the library I would have given him my ID to make his fat face shut up, then gone to his house and ***** his girlfriend while he was studying.


      Crybaby bitch
    • Sirocco, on 10/12/2007, -9/+7And then sold his PS3 on Ebay.
    • greenearthbuild, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9He deserved the tazer? Tazers are not something made for persuasion to move out of a building. They are potentially lethal weapons and should be taken seriously. 167 people have died since 1999 after being tazed by police.

      http://www.azcentral.com/specials/special43/articles/1224taserlist24-ON.html

  • sketchstudios, on 10/12/2007, -4/+14i like one of the comments on the article on the page:

    "I'm a recent UCLA alum, and I can definitely say that .... (blah blah blah - long paragraph here)...
    ....(cont.).. start a protest over having to leave the library at 11 pm?

    ----[He then adds to the bottom of his post]----

    FOCUS: This is probably a little off-topic or a topic of it's own, but has anyone been following the Playstation 3 line-ups? The number of riots over a single video game system probably can't be matched by all releases in the rest of history. Someone needs to video tape the flip-outs that people are pulling in front of Best Buys around the U.S. All over a video game system that is probably going to be inferior to the already-out Xbox 360."


    ------

    LOL,
    love how he knows his audience.
    • elhaf, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Yes, but the money quote is this:
      "He'll definitely return his library books on time from now on."
  • Coffeedemon, on 10/12/2007, -9/+19The admin of that board posts first with his own opinion of the events based on what the kid was yelling as he was getting shocked, thereby showing his own bias towards the event. A couple posts later he's introducing the person (doormat) who will be here to give his account of the proceedings ... did the guy need an intro? Sounds to me like he had to get his story straight with the admin before it would be posted (ie: give an account that meshes with the admin's views)
  • fsnuffer, on 10/12/2007, -9/+8It is already getting dugg down. I would like to see how many of the negative diggs are coming from the UCLA IP space
  • Civil44, on 10/12/2007, -14/+18First hand account on a board who's members seem to be looking for liberal blood. read through the first few pages these guys are sick.
    • thedrx, on 10/12/2007, -13/+18You're right. Really reliable source, a couple of stupid ***** who think that the bigger gun you have, the more important you are.
  • vermin, on 10/12/2007, -12/+39Quote from the witness: "By the way, UCLA is filled with hippie/hipster Che Guevara t-shirt wearing down with capitalism spewing *****, so because of this there is a protest organized in the middle of our busiest walk-through on campus at 12 pm tomorrow."

    This guy sure seems like a great source. :rolleyes:
    • dclowd9901, on 10/12/2007, -7/+12Thank you for pointing that out. I'm not so sure I'd listen to these pricks. Sound like strongarm frat assholes who don't care to think when it comes to violent confrontations. You know the types: they like watching videos of people getting beaten or killed, and are always thumping their chests.
    • cryptoknight, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3@dclowd9901

      since when is watching video's of people getting beat up or killed and thumping your chest a bad thing?
    • dclowd9901, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Crypto, I sure hope that's "sarcasm" you're not utilizing well.
    • ICSU, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2or
      "Persians and Arabs are as different as chinks and gooks and japs. We share next to nothing besides borders and occasionally weapons (and for the record, the Iranian government has long been an active supporter of Hezbollah, that's common knowledge you retards) and frankly those damn dirty Arabs are a sub-species barely worthy of any sort of decency or courtesy commonly offered to even the basest humans. ***** them.
      "
      from the the thread... and these guys actually study university?
  • mazer23, on 10/12/2007, -9/+28why do we think this guy is legit? If you read the site, "Tucker Max" makes his living by adapting college drinking yarns into stories that make him the central character. He's a great storyteller, but half his stories i've heard as told to me by a "friend of a friend". This post is exactly the same writing style as most of the Tucker Max stories. It is just him pretending to be a guy that goes to school, with no hard facts.
  • monkeyrun, on 10/12/2007, -11/+11No one said the student wasn't causing trouble.

    But tazering someone who's already handcuffed just doesn't sound right, unless he's a suicide bomber trying to reach for the trigger.
    • Andronicus1717, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3In which case the electricity from your taser ignites the explosives...
  • Sirocco, on 10/12/2007, -7/+11Watch the various vids available before commenting. This situation is being wildly spun out of proportion.
  • doom.md, on 10/12/2007, -11/+12this doormat person is right i was in powelll on Tuesday night as well. although i was in night powell which is a about ten paces from the computer lab where the tasing occurred. and when i heard yelling i came out to the rotunda to see what was going on. there is signs all over the library that say you must have your bruin id to be in the building after 11. and this dumb ***** refused flat out repeatedly to show his id and when they asked him to leave he became all indignant and started to yell all sorts of craziness, about the patriot act. first to the security guards then to the university police, who by the way are real cops with all the authority of real cops. he was asking for it he was a rude ***** and was definitely trying to start some ***** and was looking for a fight.

    now i am not justifying the actions of the police, the tasing was unnecessary and they probably could have just dragged his ass out and told him to go home. but just because you saw only half of what happened on youtube does not make you some sort of expert on it.

    and dont even try to throw out any red herrings equating this to torture, fascism, or any other nonsense. Mr. Tabatabainejad was being an ***** and brought what happened on to himself.
    • freezervv, on 10/12/2007, -7/+6"he was asking for it he was a rude ***** and was definitely trying to start some ***** and was looking for a fight."

      "now i am not justifying the actions of the police, the tasing was unnecessary and they probably could have just dragged his ass out and told him to go home."

      "Mr. Tabatabainejad was being an ***** and brought what happened on to himself."

      Umm... you are aware that you're arguing against yourself, aren't you?
    • 1337Einstein, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3So, since he wasn't being very nice they had to taze him onto the ground, where after he was subdued and handcuffed, they could taze him over and over? Please, so it didn't kill him, what he was doing, disagreeable though it may be, was still a perfect example of freedom of expression. And toou people who think that just because it doesn't leave a mark an officer can taze someone they don't like, neither do many means of torture.
    • ccran, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1So, it could be said that the whole incident started because of a policy that only people with the proper ID can be in a public place at certain hours. Was the fellow creating a disruption or giving any indication of being a threat before being asked for ID? Folks, I went to a private university that didn't even have such draconian security.

      While not being the result of the PATRIOT Act, as the victim proclaimed, it most definitely is the result of the climate. This guy was tasered for not having ID. Think about that. And, it is very disturbing to read so many people writing things like, "Well, he was not following the rules, being non-compliant, etc. and so deserved to be assaulted." Wonderful society we live in. Who the ***** was he hurting?!!!

      The fact is, every law that you support that demands people act or don't act in a certain way is backed up by force-- and that force will be used at the police's discretion. That goes for requiring ID, smoking in public, taxes, rape, theft and the lot. So, ask yourself if you would be willing to punch, tase or shoot someone for violating one of the above. If the answer is yes, then you could call that a just and reasonable law. If the answer is no, then why do you let the police do it in your name?
  • scotus, on 10/12/2007, -7/+16i agree the kid seemed to be trying to provoke the cops. unfortunately, it's the cops' jobs to handle that kind of provocation professionally.

    instead they used a taser, not once, but multiple times. even if it was a "lower" setting, i can't imagine this is the proper procedure to deal with one uncooperative person. police ought to have plenty of training of how to deal with recalcitrant people. i doubt even the first tasering was appropriate, but after he was on the ground wouldn't it be proper to cuff him and then carry him?

    the fact that at the end of the youtube video you can hear one of the cops tell another student to move out of the way unless you want to get tased too is just ridiculous. cops should not threaten physical force in that kind of situation. it seems to me the UCLA police force has some serious issues.
    • Beaver6813, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12Agreed i couldn't believe what i was hearing when the cop said "Move over there otherwise you'll get the taser too"
    • Jack9, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3What's ridiculous about "comply with police orders or suffer the consquences?" WTF is wrong with you?
  • pirotess, on 10/12/2007, -7/+9This sounds much more realistic of what really happened. Contrary to popular belief, its not optional to disregard requests made by law enforcement. They aren't as nice as mom and shouldn't be.
    • freezervv, on 10/12/2007, -6/+10"This sounds much more realistic of what really happened. Contrary to popular belief, its not optional to disregard requests made by law enforcement."

      I got this same BS from my roommate, re: the story.

      Yes, fyi, it is optional to disregard the requests made by law enforcement. Law enforcement is made up of fallible men and women; it's not the Pope. Expect to deal with their response and then be forced to argue your case before a judge later, but disobedience is legally and morally optional.
    • alphavision, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6Civil disobedience.
    • octupul, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6did you seriously just say the pope is not fallible? The last time I checked he was a mortal man and not a diety.

      Regarding the tasering, I think the initial shot could be argued for because you just never know what crazy person is going to stab you in the stomach after already not obeying your commands. The other shots are a little questionable.
    • freezervv, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1"did you seriously just say the pope is not fallible? The last time I checked he was a mortal man and not a deity."

      Well, forgive my ignorance of Catholicism, but I believe dogma says the Pope is Christ's man-on-earth, so-to-speak. If so, then the institution of the Pope, only existing through a Catholic definition, is infallible.

      They're entitled to their beliefs; I'm entitled to mine, and you're entitled to yours. Since the ecclesiastic definition of the Pontiff happened to be well-known and suit the comparison, I used it.
    • Jack9, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Apparently the children who got on mom's computer think that disobeying campus POLICE puts you on some kind of moral highground. For every moron you taser, another speaks up to say, "hey that coulda been me!" exactly. Morons.
  • billblaskey, on 10/12/2007, -7/+0TMMBSaviour = Dane Cook?
  • danielrh9, on 10/12/2007, -7/+11Yeah, I don't think there should be any credence derived from this story whatsoever. This is just a message board post from a guy who can not prove that he was actually there and can not back up his supposed facts. For all we know, he is one of the UCLA student-campus-cops or is friends with one and is just trying to cover their asses.

    We already have indisputable evidence that the tasering happened, but this is just word of mouth rumor mongering. No digg.
    • brbubba, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6Exactly, not to mention the fact that he couldn't ascertain whether the guy was able to get up or not, which means he wasn't in direct site of the victim as he was being tased. His response that he should have gotten up because it was in "drive stun" only proves this.

      There seems to be a misunderstanding of the "drive stun" setting on the taser, this isn't a light shock you are getting hit with, it is intended to bring someone down. The effect of shooting the taser at less than 3 feet is identical to using the "drive stun" mode. This isn't walk in the park stun time here, you are getting hit with 50k volts.
  • klaymen, on 10/12/2007, -9/+7here's a legitamate question. what do you think the officers should have done with a kid that was refusing to leave and yelling at the police? should they have just let him stay there cause he was throwing a temper tantrum?
    • monkeyrun, on 10/12/2007, -9/+6taser his ass out of the library sounds like a solution !!!
    • Nogger, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9How about hand-cuffing him and then removing him from the premises?
      Four police officers should be able to do this easily, no?
  • C4RL, on 10/12/2007, -7/+21The guy with the first-hand account isn't neutral at all. Look at what he said in post #7:

    "By the way, UCLA is filled with hippie/hipster Che Guevara t-shirt wearing down with capitalism spewing *****..."


    • cakestick, on 10/12/2007, -5/+14Nice catch, what a dick.

      Regardless of what this student did, the cops aren't allowed to assault other students by threatening them with the same for requesting a badge number. Either way, this was an abuse of power and cannot be tolerated.
    • doom.md, on 10/12/2007, -10/+3no it is true
      there are so many rich hipsters that go to UCLA it is not even funny. you cannot go anywhere with out bumping into a dude wearing $200 girl pants and a tee shirt two sizes too small.
      it is after all in one of the most overpriced areas of Los Angeles, so it comes with the territory.
      But that is not relevant to the what happened.
    • tbeehler, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Well are they Che Guevara t-shirt wearing down with capitalism spewing *****? From the video, they sure do appear like it. Is what he saying true? Bias has nothing to do with it if it's true. :) Digg me down! I dare you!
  • ThisIsBob, on 10/12/2007, -13/+5Why doesn't the ***** go to the University of Tehran and try that *****?
    • cakestick, on 10/12/2007, -5/+7Because given the choice, that wouldn't make any sense. Not that your logic does, either..
    • Swift2, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10Because we live in a free country, where we can argue with authority.
    • unitedstatians, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Mostafa Tabatabainejad, a 23-year-old is of Iranian descent but is a U.S.-born resident of Los Angeles.

      "This incident follows the recent announcement that four of the UCLA's police department's nearly 60 full-time sworn officers had won so-called Taser Awards granted by the manufacturer of the device to "law enforcement officers who save a life in the line of duty through extraordinary use of the Taser." The award stemmed from an incident in which officers subdued a patient who allegedly threatened staff at the campus' Neuropsychiatric Hospital with metal scissors.

      Jeff Young, assistant police chief, declined to indicate whether any of the honored officers were among the several involved in Tuesday's incident."
  • ZenMojo, on 10/12/2007, -3/+19"I believe this because anyone who can ramble on about this being the patriot act and yell at the top of his lungs should have the capability of getting up."

    Having seen someone get tasered and scream at the same time, I can tell you quite honestly that his ability to scream means nothing about his ability to stand up.

    That thread is turning into a joke, and I'll wait until I get a collection of the dozen other people instead of the one militant douchebag who jerks off to episodes of The Factor. They asked for badge numbers and were denied. That in itself is inappropriate. You are required to provide your badge number. The threat of force to prevent it, if true, is ILLEGAL.
  • anewname, on 10/12/2007, -6/+9Now I'm hearing that this kid had it coming to him?

    For all I care he could have been brandishing a deadly weapon. Tazing him while he is cuffed is not the proper behaviour for an officer of the law. Are we supposed to look the other way while the officers get in a few good ones to even the score or something?
    • kwelity, on 10/12/2007, -7/+8I agree...Tucker Max and Tucker Carlson are in the same place in my books in regard to legitimacy
  • KRa104, on 10/12/2007, -8/+9I don't think I'm going to take anything I read on the "Tucker Max" forums too seriously. His target audience seems to be retarded frat boys.
  • h3smith, on 10/12/2007, -6/+8Tazers are "less lethal" weapons, so they are still lethal weapons. They should only be used in extreme circumstances, which this was not.

    It is bad that police don't grasp this simple concept.
    • saleens281, on 10/12/2007, -10/+6they are "non-lethal" weapons.
    • Asianwaste, on 10/12/2007, -7/+2Less than Lethal would be batons.
    • dboylon, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6They are lethal weapons. They just kill a small percentage of people. Cops have been trained to use them as non lethal weapons. The increase in use and lack of inhibition in using tasers is resulting in an increase in taser deaths in our country.
      http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,226417,00.html
  • Oldschoolhack, on 10/12/2007, -5/+9Buried for hearsay.

    I don't know what fully happened there, I only know what the video shows. I don't need some biased "witness" to tell me what happend.
    • Nougat, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3As someone posted yesterday: ***** internet needs a sarcasm font.
  • ToddML, on 10/12/2007, -5/+14If you need an id to be in the library, make people swipe or show their id on the way into the library. That's what they did at my university library. Apparently this highly advanced technique prevents taser attacks and media frenzy. Shocking, isn't it (I guess that was a terrible pun).
    • tuna1, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7Or just bring your ID with you. Then if they ask you to leave because they don't know your a student, leave.
    • devr, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6The way it works is that before 11PM anyone can be there. After 11, it becomes student only. After 11 you must swipe to enter. He was already there when it was still public, but stayed without ID when it became student only.
  • saleens281, on 10/12/2007, -10/+1*told you so*
  • Nougat, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5My favorite comment on that thread points out that "tazers are only used to gain control of someone. Not to keep it. They should have used cuffs before moving him."

    Indeed. Once you're tazed, the cuffs come next. If you continue to struggle, then you get tazed again, until enough backup shows up to physically take you in to custody.
    • freezervv, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4"... until enough backup shows up to physically take you in to custody."

      4 cops can't deal with one man?!
      We really need to improve our police efficiency.

      And don't bring up the, "But they had to deal with the crazy liberal students" argument. Try, "Excuse us, this man is being disruptive and has physically refused to leave the library. We're going to pick him up and carry him out. Sorry to interrupt your studying." Effect? No student gives a damn about the incident now.
    • Nougat, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3I didn't bring up the crowd control issue at all. You did.

      However, it can take a whole lot of people to bring one large, angry, struggling person into custody. In a situation like this, I would expect that at least one officer would need to remain out of that particular fray to handle crowd control - regardless of your or my opinion of the validity of the presumed politics of said crowd.

      Now, I've seen a few points made by people saying that this was a stun gun, not a taser, that it's much lower voltage than a taser. I'll buy that. In that case, they shouldn't have repeatedly stun gunned him, they should have stunned him once, tazed him second, cuffed him third. If they had an actual taser, of course.
    • martalli, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"However, it can take a whole lot of people to bring one large, angry, struggling person into custody. "

      That is true beyond a doubt. Anyone who thinks 1-2 police can easily subdue an uncooperative person without injury or use of a billy club, taser, etc. must think they have some secret knowledge of Vulcan nerve pinches....
  • Asianwaste, on 10/12/2007, -7/+6This is a lesser degree of Rodney King who turned up to be a lowlife crackhead.
    Only this time the kid (probably) isn't a crackhead, but apparrently still a ***** lowlife.
    • vermin, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Might as well round up the homeless and tase the ***** out of them too! Since they're all "lowlifes" anyways.
  • linksdeity, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5The video itself was terrible, i had a hell of a time trying to hear and see what was going on. Add in one "witness", and a handful of skeptics, and it's tough to say one way or the other.

    Assuming the police started off with reasonable enough requests, and this kid was just being an idiot, he deserved it. On the other hand if the police where making outrageous requests, something along the lines of confiscating all of his materials and being overly physical (This would mean to the point of abusing police power, which i doubt happened), than they where at fault, especially with the sheer amount of taser they administered.

    I still can't tell if he was just a cocky ass hat, or trying some sort of non-violent protest.
  • Swift2, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8anybody who puts any credence on a site like "TuckerMax," with that slimy, ridiculous *****-artist picture of himself with the "this could be you" girl, deserves everything they get.

    and by the way, I take no position on the tazing. I wasn't there.
  • DooM, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13I don't care if he LITERALLY asked them to taze him -- no amount of yelling or 'limpness' justifies 4-5 uses of a tazer on anyone. Yes, civil rights even apply to the biggest assholes among us.
    • tuna1, on 10/12/2007, -5/+4I agree, 4-5 was very excessive. They should of just diffused the situation after the first 1-2 tasers and carried his ass out instead of letting an angry mob form right around them.
  • elCapitanNemo, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6I gotta say from this from experience, I'm 21, probably been arrested seven or so times mostly for minor ***** related to drinkin, some more serious *****, I've learned in my experience that cops are just doing their jobs, putting bread on the table for their families, I've learned to talk and treat them like the human beings that they are and even though I was the punk getting busted we treated each other with respect. Now I have an older brother that came back from college, where he was babied and let go for some much much ***** by campus security that he has no clue on what really happens when you misbehave in the real world, and has been arrested twice in the last 2 months for various things related to disrespecting authorities(much like this kid), sorry so long just hits a note right now in my life.
    • GabrielS, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7You never know what kind of officer you're dealing with. That's why I always assume they are officer hardass. I just answer their questions and do what they say. No amount of my convincing will change the situation for me. I just ask, "what is the shortest amount of time this encounter with an officer will take?"
    • elCapitanNemo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2@Gabriel
      Agreed some times it takes longer for some to learn then others.
  • yarzy, on 10/12/2007, -13/+7Wow, Digg is swarming with pussies it looks like. Here is a news flash, when a cop tells you to get up off the ground....GET UP! If a cop tells you to get up or you are going to tasered, GET UP. If you are not allowed to be in computer lab without your ID, GET UP! This is just stupid and the people who say the cops were out of line are wrong. This is some punk college kid who "wanted to take a stand" and got what was coming to him.

    • therealduckie, on 10/12/2007, -7/+14Digg is swarming with people that are educated, intelligent, and worldly. Those that oppose the violence are informed and knowledgeable about the negative effects.

      Digg is ALSO swarming with people. No two people are alike. therefore, just because YOU don't agree with someone else's point of view, it doesn't make them a 'vagina'. It makes them Human with free will and a mind of their own.

      So please, spare us the rhetoric about how your way is the right way and everyone who disagrees with you is wrong.

      Not all of us believe in guns or violence as a means to get people to do what you want them to do.

      It's unnecessary.
    • flashboy131, on 10/12/2007, -9/+4@ yarzy

      have you ever been tazered? go get tazered nine times you'd turn into a babling idiot, oh wait....
    • therealduckie, on 10/12/2007, -11/+1replied to wrong reply. Digg down
    • Beaver6813, on 10/12/2007, -6/+5*****, how can you get up when your being tazered.
    • flashboy131, on 10/12/2007, -5/+3hence, "@yarzy"
    • Leirsgrios, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Getting up after being tazered is actually alot easier than it'd seem...especially when he was tazered for only a second every time. Alot harder when its held down for 4-5 but still doable.

      Now...if the tazer gun was on full power it'd be another story.

      and yes...i've been tazered.
    • martalli, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"Not all of us believe in guns or violence as a means to get people to do what you want them to do."

      Unfortunately for the police, most of the people they deal with are not Quakers and Mennonites.
  • redrevolt, on 10/12/2007, -9/+7I'm a long time Digg reader, but I've never had a login before...this topic got me motivated. There are a few things i need to say. You guys are wrong on several counts. The cops did not use a taser on this kid, they used a stun gun, there is a huge difference. A taser shoots out two electrodes attached to a wire that peirce the skin and zap the suspect. TASERS not stun guns have been known to kill people. Stun guns are hand held devices roughly the size of a palm pilot that have electrodes that must be applied to the persons body and are often far less powerful than a taser. Also, all those videos you see online of people getting "tasered" are usually someone getting "stun gunned." The kid would have been 100% within seconds after getting hit with a stun gun, ESPECIALLY if reports are correct that the officer had it on it's lowest setting.
  • sbougerolle, on 10/12/2007, -6/+8Further comments from this so-called witness farther down that post:

    "By the way, UCLA is filled with hippie/hipster Che Guevara t-shirt wearing down with capitalism spewing *****, so because of this there is a protest organized in the middle of our busiest walk-through on campus at 12 pm tomorrow."

    I think we can safely doubt his objectivity and reliability from that.
  • lardlung, on 10/12/2007, -5/+9"They asked for badge numbers and were denied. That in itself is inappropriate. You are required to provide your badge number. The threat of force to prevent it, if true, is ILLEGAL."

    They were a little busy to stop and answer questions from some pissy bystander. There's no law that says an officer has to drop what he's doing right this very instant and answer questions from someone not even involved in the incident.

    The kid was an *****. Saying "No, I will not show ID and I'm walking away now" is not actually a valid response to a police officer in the US - you must, if asked, present with some form of identification, or otherwise identify yourself, otherwise you can be arrested and detained. Just present ID and give your name, and anything else they ask for (address, DOB, and/or social). Expect to be delayed and questioned as to your intent. If you have a clean record and aren't an *****, you may not even get a trespassing citation, but rather just booted out. No big deal, and nothing to scream "PATRIOT ACT" over. The "you're not supposed to be here, show me ID" encounter occurs many, many times every single day in every jurisdiction. 99% of the time, it's just a walk to the door.

    "ID please" "here sir" "you're here after hours, why are you here, you're not a student" "research project, time slipped away, sorry" "get out of here" "k bye"

    Not hard. The kid was tweaked.
    • STKD, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7He wasn't arrested. He wasn't in the process of being arrested. He was leaving when the police decided to "protect" those students by repeatedly torturing someone. Not arresting him. Not doing the sensible thing in that situation.
    • rlbigfish, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6I can understand being asked for ID in your college Library after hours, but you just ***** said that if you're asked for an ID IN GENERAL you have to give it to an officer or be detained. If that's really where we are in this country I think it's time for me to leave.
    • mulling, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7It's a criminal act (assault) for a police officer to threaten to harm (and make no mistake, getting tasered is pretty damn harmful) when you if you ask for their badge number.

      Meanwhile, the kid was not a threat to anyone in any way. He was engaging in a non-violent act by laying on the ground. At any time they could've just picked him up and removed him from the facility. When they tasered him while he was laying on the ground, they were committing another criminal act (Torture, a federal crime punishable by up to 20 years in prison, google it).

      These officers are little more than thugs, and they should be made an example of. There are plenty of great police officers who are good, honest, professional people, and these assholes just gave them all a bad name.
    • elCapitanNemo, on 10/12/2007, -5/+4@rlbigfish
      Get your info correct or please buy a plane ticket, bye!,

      @mulling You don't ask for his badge number while he's still working to control the situation, what do you think your in a movie, they have jobs to do lol.
    • mulling, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3@captainNemo - That's an interesting legal defense for an assualt charge: "But your honor, he interrupted me while I was working."

      Judge: *bangs gavel* "Guilty. Send him to federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison."
  • glmory, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6Maybe he deserved the first one... maybe. However once he was cuffed, there were 4 cops, there was no excuse for any of that. If he was being an pick him up and carry him to jail. Using excessive force on someone who has already been subdued isn't acceptable.
  • drjekelmrhyde, on 10/12/2007, -5/+2 Question have any of you been tased the guy might not have been able to get up after the first jolt then by hitting him again could have killed him yeah the guy was a moron by talking shyt but you dont tase twice
  • tuna1, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8I think that there is fault on both sides of this situation. The police should of just carried him out after a 1-2 tasers. Then this moron should of just complied with the student police instead of escalating it into a screaming match. But as a UC student who has been on a few different campuses, there is one thing they have in common - the UC police are assholes.
  • glmory, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6It makes it worse that they were enforcing a ***** law. I have gone to two major universities and never seen a requirement to be a student to be in a library. What, the general public is banned from learning? Also libraries are usually under video survailance, and have easy access to cops(they clearly got there fast enough for the breaking of the minor rule). That means the idea that this was somehow helping the safety of the students is absurd.

    I would be willing to bet that the most harm ever caused to a patron of that library was the kicking out of that student by cops. If they would just get rid of their rules about only students being in the library, it sounds as if the library would be a whole lot safer.
    • GabrielS, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4Depends on your library. I don't know any libraries that prohibit anyone to enter them to peruse their listings. The most strict requirement I've seen is asking you to sign in and present photo ID. This was a law library.

      The only restrictions are on circulation of materials and the electronic equipment like computers, databases, etc. As these are more expensive, and require you to be screened for viewing, public access is restricted to only those that have provided the proper validation to use the technology.

      UCLA is a public university. I doubt they prohibit the public from entering the library. Checking out materials might require some sort of student status or community library card network.
    • ccran, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@glmory

      "I would be willing to bet that the most harm ever caused to a patron of that library was the kicking out of that student by cops. If they would just get rid of their rules about only students being in the library, it sounds as if the library would be a whole lot safer. "


      That about sums up the whole episode.
  • kfly, on 10/12/2007, -7/+4Note to self: get the F'up when told to by cops... right or wrong
    • therealduckie, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Not to kfly: nothing is EVER black and white
  • joshreisner, on 10/12/2007, -6/+10the cops are there to protect the students. end of story.

    UCLA's immediate response should be a) a written apology from every 'police officer' present; b) an immediate suspension without pay for each officer that touched or tased him; c) suspension w/o pay for the officer who threatened to tase the student who asked for the badge number and finally and most importantly d) immediate public disclosure of all surveillance video of the incident
    • therealduckie, on 10/12/2007, -5/+9Who is protecting the students from the cops?
  • MoofTheStoof, on 10/12/2007, -7/+10Unless he actually had his hands around somebody's throat, he wasn't asking for what he got.
  • jjhare, on 10/12/2007, -7/+13If there's anything you can count on Digg for it's sophomoric political discussion between people with the understanding level of 4 year-olds. I love the argument presented here that somehow because Person A's actions were somehow annoying Person B is perfectly justified to use violence in order to force Person A to do what they want.
    Regardless of who's doing it, when you use violence against someone who is resisting non-violently, you've crossed out of legitimate use of force and into terrorism.

    First of all--did this young man threaten or do violence to anyone? That is beyond question. He did not. Whether his language or actions were appropriate is immaterial. He had engaged in no violent acts. Police officers do not have the privilege to engage in violent acts simply for convenience. Living in the Washington, DC area, I have to deal with the problems of protesters often. They'll block streets and sidewalks and become nuisances for the least of issues. Do the DC cops use Tasers on protesters when they refuse to leave a spot after repeated police orders? No. The DC police handcuff them and carry them off. They're actually pretty polite about it---they talk to the protesters, make it clear that if they don't move they'll be arrested, and then arrest them. For the protesters it's all about symbolism anyways, so it's a good scene all around.

    The same situation could have occurred here. This student, first of all, had forgotten an ID. Speaking from experience, the whole "papers please" culture that's becoming a part of America is distressing and against our national experience. This young man, being Arabic, probably faces more of this type of nonsense than I do. I've gotten into a heated argument with a store clerk because he claimed he was legally required to ask for my ID to buy a lighter. Was I right? Nope. Did I deserve to get shocked with 50,000 volts? Hell No.

    See, Osama bin Laden wanted the US to leave Saudi Arabia. Our actions had annoyed him and his supporters. He'd asked us to leave repeatedly and we didn't. He blew up the World Trade Center buildings, the Pentagon and four airliners to "teach us a lesson."

    And every one of you who thinks that these policemen were justified in their actions really is pushing the argument that Osama was justified in his.

    I'd rather be a part of a culture that valued discussion and tolerance than violence. Looking at digg, I'm not sure what kind I'm in.
    • GabrielS, on 10/12/2007, -5/+7Are you arguing that the actions of these police officers is terrorism?

      "Regardless of who's doing it, when you use violence against someone who is resisting non-violently, you've crossed out of legitimate use of force and into terrorism."
    • therealduckie, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8If he isn't, I am.

      ter·ror·ism (tĕr'ə-rĭz'əm) pronunciation
      n.

      The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.
    • Sfmobius, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Anyone can see he was looking for a fight. Well, he got one. After watching all the vids posted and hearing several first hand accounts a rather clear picture emerges. He was wrong for acting out. The officers were wrong to continue shocking him after the first time. He decided to make a point and so did they. It could have ended there. Instead, it has turned into a witch hunt. I hear all this need for punishment for the officers (I'd agree some sort of punishment AND retraining is in order) where is the talk about the student? Shouldn't he be expelled for such behavior? He incited the entire incident.

      This was not a citizen vs a citizen. It was a citizen vs an officer. Police are empowered to detain, question, subdue by force, and remove if necessary someone who refuses to comply w/a request to leave. This is not new. If you are confronted by an officer making a request your are required by law to comply and take it up w/the proper authority after the fact if you disagree. Refusal invites arrest. Once a struggle ensues, police are empowered to further use force including less than lethal or less lethan if necessary. The officers were well within their scope of duty for the first shock. The rest is certainly up to interpretation however, as I said before, I agree it was excessive to shock him 4 more times.

      We come full circle to a situation made incredibly worse by a guy refusing to reply w/a request to leave and then being very beligerent to the officers onscene. Our first amendment rights give us freedom of speech, not freedom to disregard rules and a request from a sworn officer.

      On a side note, all the name calling back and forth here invites a comparison to high school. We are not in high school. We can disagree even vehemently w/o resorting to such childish behavior. You only serve to lesson the impact of your comments when you resort to such tactics. Sarcasm is often the last resort of a dull mind.
  • SteelChicken, on 10/12/2007, -13/+4read the ***** thread you anti law enforcement hippies.
    actual people who saw what happened are calling him out as starting ***** on purpose.

    • therealduckie, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5Please refrain from vulgarity. It nullifies your argument.

      Also, those 'witnesses' in that thread are biased.

      I quote:

      "By the way, UCLA is filled with hippie/hipster Che Guevara t-shirt wearing down with capitalism spewing *****, so because of this there is a protest organized in the middle of our busiest walk-through on campus at 12 pm tomorrow."

      I rest my case.
  • junkmail02, on 10/12/2007, -5/+4From his post: "I believe this because anyone who can ramble on about this being the patriot act and yell at the top of his lungs should have the capability of getting up."

    umm there are many times where you can scream coherent sentences in pain but aren't physically able to operate or get up. for an example: a pregnant woman giving birth
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