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File downloading, if not for profit, not illegal in Italy

franticindustries.com — The high court of Italy ruled that downloading files - be it software, music, or movies - is not illegal if profit is not the motivation. The case was a lawsuit against two students who set up a p2p file-sharing network, and who were initially convinced to one year in prison. The highest court in Italy overthrew the decision, and set them free.

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  • greves, on 10/12/2007, -5/+101Great news to hear that not everyone is America's lapdog. Way to go Italy!
    • ajb2015, on 10/12/2007, -13/+56"convinced to one year in prison"

      not only is the word you are looking for spelled "convicted," but it isn't even the right word. It is "sentenced."
    • xoxuxox, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9http://www.variety.com/index.asp?layout=print_story&articleid=VR1117957867&categoryid=19

      "In a blow to Italy's campaign against piracy, a Rome court has ruled that the unauthorized downloading of copyrighted movies, music and video games is not a crime if the downloader does not profit from the action.

      In 2005, a Turin court sentenced two men to a year in jail and fined them several hundred euros for using a computer server at the Turin Polytechnic Institute to store and distribute copies of video games, films and CDs in 1999.

      The jail time was cut to three months on appeal. But last week, a Supreme Court judge overturned the sentence completely, saying the act wasn't criminal because the duo saw no commercial gain.

      In 2003, Silvio Berlusconi's government passed one of Europe's toughest copyright laws, modeled on the EU's copyright directive, passing down stiff fines for commercial pirates and individual downloaders. But the law is rarely enforced and authorities struggle against film and music piracy from organized crime groups and individuals.

      Fimi, Italy's trade group for professional musicians, on Monday downplayed the Supreme Court decision saying it would have little impact on the anti-piracy law as the two men were charged under an older, weaker law."
    • Nitrodist, on 10/12/2007, -2/+21Wow, the prosecuting lawyer must've been mighty persuasive to convince them to go to prison.
    • Blah_Blah_Blah, on 10/12/2007, -10/+4VIVA LA ITALY!
    • diggsIt, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Great Boccie balls for Italy.
    • aguilera, on 10/12/2007, -3/+66The pirate bay should buy italy
    • blapierre, on 10/12/2007, -15/+7So basically no one has to pay for copyrighted material anymore as long as they can get someone else to give it to them for free(or at cost) even if they don't own the rights to that material?

      Sounds like a bad idea to me. Seems like not many will produce intellectual goods in Italy anymore since anyone is allowed to rip it off as they please.
    • Neticule, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5@aguilera

      They say everything is for sale at a price! How much do you think italy would go for anyways?
    • aguilera, on 10/12/2007, -6/+125 Euros
    • Ramtech, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I need to find a hosting in italy...

      lol
    • jacobsor, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6Totally inaccurate. According to the article, the Italian court held that the downdloading is not a *crime.* However, it is still copyright infringement, which is still illegal under Italian law.

      TFA: "Analysts said violating a copyright, for example by breaking copy-protection technologies in place, remained illegal even if downloading the material had been decriminalized."
    • JesusFaction, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7why oh why can't you link to the ACTUAL article
      http://www.pittsburghpostgazette.com/pg/07026/756542-96.stm
    • jacobsor, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5The article: "analysts said violating a copyright, for example by breaking copy-protection technologies in place, remained illegal even if downloading the material had been decriminalized."
    • greyfedora, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Hold on a second -- it may not be a criminal offence, but that doesn't mean it's not illegal. Even in the U.S., not many people are going to jail for illegal filesharing, but they are being sued.
    • amphoterous, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I'm moving to Italy.
    • tidu, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15"convinced to one year in prison"
      They were given a choice?

      "We're giving you two years in prison"
      "make it six months"
      "One year, and that's final"
      "Okay.
    • TheYellowMole, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3Judge: Well, I'm going to have to ask you to go to prison
      Student: Oh, well, the thing about that....
      Judge: Pleeease?
      Student: I don't know, I'm still kind of unsure
      Judge: What if I gave you both top bunks?
      Students: OK it's a deal, but you owe us one.
      Judge: Done. Now just put these handcuffs on yourselves and I'll have security show you to your cells.
    • linuxpenguin, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2learn the law before you rip on it, buddy - downloading files isn't illegal here in the US. Hosting them is illegal - just downloading them isn't illegal.

      Small loophole.
    • frant1c, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@everyone that noticed the "convinced" error: I apologize, my fingers were faster than my brain.
    • Shirokun, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3The same goes for Spain Too (The law exists here since the 70s when people started sharing tapes)
      And trust me when I say that loads of artists are happy with this, because the Internet is great advertising for them.
      Artists don't win money from the CD's but from the concerts.
  • charbarred, on 10/12/2007, -0/+38Best food in the world, 2 hour work days and all the downloads you can get? I so envy these guys :-D
    • peregrine, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Well this makes me wonder why Italy is becomeing one of the old countries in the world? Sounds great.
    • Cleanlyness, on 10/12/2007, -11/+4"...2 hour work days..."
      You must be way too young to even look beyond that. Europe has some of the highest unemployment rates and highest cost of living and how is anyone suppose to live off of that? With debt, that's how.
    • aguilera, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Dont forget about their cars :)
    • bmson, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@Cleanlyness
      Europe has also one of the lowest unemployment rate in the world and highest pay in the world.
      And the longest working days in the western world and that is all in Iceland.
    • bergur1, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1@BMson

      Everything is really expensive in Iceland though. If you go there from America you are guaranteed to lose some money from the transaction if you plan to spend some money there. Last time I went two years ago it was 60kr to the dollar.
    • blackjack75, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1About unemployment in Europe: it's certainly higher than in the U.S., no doubt.

      Now I know quite a lot of people who are unemployed for some months while they look for the right job and they live well. On the other hand in the U.S. I often hear about people with two jobs hardly making a living...

      How could I live with that? Pretty well.
    • nifhel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"2 hour work days": where? i live in Italy, and actually i work for 9 hours/day... I want the work you are speaking about!! :-)
    • ep53, on 02/02/2008, -0/+1+ All the fashion designers that come from Italy....Gucci, Prada, Dolce & Gabbana,
  • skidogallard, on 10/12/2007, -0/+28So, who's moving to Italy now?
    • computerdude33, on 10/12/2007, -0/+23BREAKING NEWS: US population down by 100 million, Italy up by same number
    • cavadela, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9I heard the Pirate Bay just bought a town there
    • blackjack75, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Surely a small island off the coast of italy would beat a cold platform on the coast of Britain.
  • richstyles, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I wonder if there's a political agenda behind it though.
  • mage1129, on 10/12/2007, -11/+4Vivia Italia!!!
  • InSeverance, on 10/12/2007, -3/+22Finally...a country with an ounce of common sense
    • dillonish, on 10/12/2007, -1/+20Thomas Paine had Common Sense.
    • CBTF, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11Common sense isn't all too common, i'm afraid.
    • diggsIt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1John Prine had it too.
    • broomett, on 10/12/2007, -6/+3Common sense does not allow people to take things for free. If this was the law everywhere, you would see VERY little progress in technology, or art. The incentive to get educated to the point of being able to create new technology (or to practice to get good at music, etc.) is gone if everyone can just take it for free.
    • Andero, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3@broomett

      I disagree. If everyone could take everything for free, the incentive for progress is not gone. Instead, we would just have more people being passionate about their jobs rather than doing jobs only for money.
    • hammydude, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1this is a ringtoss game
  • marshall007, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4I heard its legal in Canada too!!


    Why not in the freakin' US!
    • AniceAtheist, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13Cause of your lobbyist controlled government.
    • afruff23, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Canada's major cable ISP's block bittorrent traffic. Downloading in US>>>>>>>>Downloading in Canada
    • AniceAtheist, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Which 'major' cable ISP? I have used Telus, Rogers and Shaw cable which I believe are the biggest three. and I use bit torrent all the time. some 30k songs and 200+ movies, plus all the games and such too. never had a problem.

      Wait am I confessing? this is all a joke I would never download a part of my culture that I could not afford to partake in otherwise. I get it all from the library. one new movie a year
    • linuxpenguin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Because it IS legal in the US - you can download whatever you want, you're just not allowed to upload it.
  • scabbers, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1Seriously though, if they're going to call you and I pirates for just downloading stuff for ourselves, they're going to have to come up with a way more evil name for the people who sell counterfeit software... "organised crime" just doesn't cut it... how about "PAEDOPHILES"? It's about as accurate as "pirate" for downloaders.
  • TSAU956, on 05/12/2008, -1/+1"who were initially convinced to one year in prison."

    That's too bad they were convinced to prison. At least they weren't convicted though.

    -- Heheh, see someone already noticed this. Well I thought it was funny anyway!
  • ThetaDot, on 10/12/2007, -5/+7Okay, I'm truly not trying to be contrived here, so can someone explain to me how this is good for everybody (including companies)?
    If a million people download an app or some other piece of data with value, isn't that a loss of a (million x the cost of the product) for whoever owns it and is trying to sell it?
    I'm genuinely interested in trying to understand the other side on this issue.
    To me, it just looks like everybody is looking for free stuff??
    • Neticule, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4"If a million people download an app or some other piece of data with value, isn't that a loss of a (million x the cost of the product) for whoever owns it and is trying to sell it?"

      If your logic is that everyone that pirated it would have bought it instead, yes. But that is NOT the case. Photoshop is very highly pirated, probably around a million copies at the least. However, if people were not able to download it, that doesnt mean they would have the 500 bucks to buy it, probably only 5% of those million downloads, at most, could justify a purchase like that (professional artists, etc).

      Even with games, alot of people cant justify spending 50 dollars for a game they will possibly play for 3-4 days, so they pirate it instead.

      Some argue that it actually increases sales for some software as well. I have pirated things, i will be honest, but if I end up using whatever it is for more then a few days, and see myself using it alot, i WILL go buy the full program. Some people use the pirating method as a way to basically get a FULL trial version, which most games dont have. and if it really is good, and worth it, most people dont mind paying, they just have to JUSTIFY a reason for spending that much!

      The point is, yes, companies do lose some money from pirating, but not anywhere near in the realm of what alot of people say they do, because the fact is, most people that download something, wont necessarily have bought it otherwise. And the other way around, some people wouldnt have bought a game/program if they hadnt downloaded it and tried it out first.
    • AniceAtheist, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2I don't agree with you but let's just say I do for a moment. Would you think it is a smaller or larger crime then parking in a fire lane? Since parking in a fire lane can potentially cause massive damage and loss of life. While pirating a movie can cause... $15 loss to a multibillion dollar enterprise. Why is so much government time spent on this problem when there are more pressing problems out there. Are consumers and voters complaining to there representatives and that is why congress is spending so much time on this. or is it in fact Lobbyists controlled by the RIAA and MPAA? way to waste the time of government that could be spent dealing with issues much more important to citizens.

      Now to explain why I don't agree with you anyways. Movies, Books, Music, Art is all part of our shared culture, and I believe everyone that is part of the society is free to partake in said culture. Meaning if someone cannot afford to partake then they would be left out of the mainstream, turning cultural relevance into a commodity. I think that is scandalous. If someone cannot afford to buy a book he goes to the library (That is why Libraries were created in the first place) unfortunately there is no such institution for music and movies, so we go to the internet to partake in it.
    • broomett, on 10/12/2007, -5/+4Neticule...No one has a RIGHT to have a game. If it is not good enough to pay for it, then you are not entitled to play it. Plain and simple.

      Seriously, the "It is not good enough to buy, but good enough to pirate" exucse REALLY hurts the cause of pirates everywhere becuase it is just so ridiculous.

      Anice...something tells me you would feel differently if you have any talent in sonething that could be copyrighted, and therefore pirates would cost you money. the information wants to be freeeeee is even worse than the "I'd buy it if it were better" argument.

      Someone tell Google that their search algorithm wants to be freeeeee. And tell Apple that Leopard's source codes DEMANDS to be freeeeeee!
    • AniceAtheist, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Broomett how about arguing my point and not making it personal.

      Anyways I never said 'the info wants to be free' I said people who cannot afford to partake in culture still have a right to do so. it may be a little socialist to your tastes but that is my opinion. if you disagree say so. If you have a rational reason to show me that I am wrong please do so. but if all you can do is make petty puns then please stfu
  • richstyles, on 10/12/2007, -13/+2wow. now I got two frontpagers at the same time
  • Nick22, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Yes, this is exactly how it should be
  • mbradbury, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3"In a blow to Italy's campaign against piracy, a Rome court has ruled that the unauthorized downloading of copyrighted movies, music and video games is not a crime if the downloader does not profit from the action."

    Hasn't the downloader profited by now having a copy of the move?
    • AniceAtheist, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1It has nothing to do whether the individual gains or loses, but whether the artist loses out!

      So does the artist lose out. Well If I never plan on paying for the movie for whatever reason. (Lets say I can't afford it, I'm too poor) has the artist lost anything in my watching said movie? no in fact the artist stand to gain through word of mouth advertising, through me becoming a fan of her work, through me loving it so much that even though normally I can't afford it I go out of my way to purchase it for all the extras the dvd has and becuase it looks shiny on my table.

      Now lets say I can afford it and the only reason I am not buying these movies anymore is because I can download them for free. Does the artist lose out? YES they do. how much do they lose on a $15 movie? Probably $2 to $3 at most. So now the question becomes what is worse in a society, stiffing an artist of $2 to $3 or parking in a fire lane where it can potentially cost Tens of thousands of dollars and the loss of life. How many citizens are clamoring their government for protection against down-loaders? Is it truly a representative government that spends such an inordinate amount of time on an issue that affects a very small % of the population while ignoring much larger issues affecting a broad group of voters.
  • RadiantBeing, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2The problem with P2P protocols like bittorrent is that you aren't merely downloading. You are simultaneously uploading to multiple parties while downloading. While the downloading part may be OK, what of the massive distribution that is the other side of the coin?
  • toasty168, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2everyone's gonna move their torrent trackers to italy. kudos to italy! let's see what the riaa tries. maybe bush will send over some troops.
  • ChaperonNoir, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I couldn't agree more Italy! Way to go.
  • my10cent, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0Maybe it is not illegal to download, but I bet it is still illegal to install/watch/listen to the downloaded material. even in Italy.
  • rebelxtnut, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2go italy now lets have the usa follow
  • revenge, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Before 2004, if I remember well, the previous laws in Italy allowed to download everything (movies, music, software, etc) only if the downloader would not sell it in the future.
    The Italian word for this is "lucro", that means "earn money".
    The new law modified the word "lucro" with "profitto" (profit), that - in Italy i mean - means "taking an economic advantage", and the advantage could be taken if, for example, I download a movie and I don't spend money in buying DVD or going to cinema.
    The 2 guy from Turin were set free because the "illicit" was done when there were the "old" law, if they do this today they will receive a nice "fine" from our government.
    That's it, Italy is not different from other countries...it's very sad :(
  • rik83, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2here in Italy is legal to download file that are NOT copyright protected.. so this news is inaccurate..

    Italy is still Banana Republic-like
  • sathia, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Yeah that's fine, there is only one more problem. we have taxes on digital supports (hard disks, dvd, cdrom, even ipods etc) to "contrast" the unauthorized downloading of copyrighted material
    (a cd has circa a +30% impact) so whatever you buy digital supports for you pay SIAE with this "balzello"

    luckily for us the one who put this tax is no longer in the government. it was about 3 years ago
  • geekee, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"The top criminal court in Rome threw out the convictions, ruling that it was not a crime to download computer files from such networks if there was no financial gain."

    Right, if I downloaded a movie instead of paying for it, I haven't gained financially. BS. I have something of value that I paid less for than it was worth. That is financial gain.

    All three Italian rock stars, movie makers, and software companies will be pissed.
    • Misesean, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"I have something of value that I paid less for than it was worth."

      If you buy anything, that's still true. Else why would you buy it?
  • anagoge, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2I'm still amazed at how many people think it should be legal to download copyrighted material without paying for it. Hey, I do it too, all I'm saying is that I know damn well it's illegal.

    For every copy of something you download without paying for it, how do the artists, producers, actors and band members ever get to make a profit? If they're only selling one copy of something, but there's a million people downloading it, how does that encourage that person to continue doing what they love and what you love watching/listening to?
    • bmson, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Illegal music downloads have not shown decrease in music sales.

      I've bought a lot of music, movies and TV show on iTunes Store
      Make it easy for me to buy these products and I will buy them.
  • SpookyET, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Ti amo, Italia!
  • hiscity, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5We can check out books or videos of copyrighted material from a library -- no problem.
    We can watch copyrighted material at a motel or someone else's home -- no problem.
    We can loan or give each other copyrighted material -- no problem.
    We can even sell copyrighted material second hand -- no problem.

    I have to agree with the Italians. As long as people aren't distributing copyrighted material for profit -- I don't see a problem. Clearly laws about online sharing should be consistent with other types of sharing.

    The funny thing is that with all the sharing going on -- advertisers haven't figured out yet how to promote products as background props in the videos and other copyrighted material that is being massively shared. If the "piracy" rates are correct -- then they are ignoring a massive distribution and market. What's the difference between advertising on the side of bus or billboard you see in a video and the same signage you see driving down the road?

    As for artists and other producers losing income, without advertising and marketing they wouldn't survive anyway.

    Then there's hollywood. They're "neo-communists" except of course for their own products. From each according to their ability to each according to their need, eh comrade? And the taboo that no one wants to admit is that computing, entertainment, gaming, books, music, etc. are often addicting. There's an emotional bio-chemical hook, likely just as addicting (and considering the obesity epidemic) and just as deadly as drugs, nicotine, or alcohol.

    So frankly the anti-sharing faction is just as nuts as the hard-core pirate-everything fans. Most of it, free or not, just isn't worth the time to watch or the bother to keep, unless you're a fanatic.
  • CoolWind, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1It's always nice when sanity prevails. Congratulations to the citizens of Italy.
    The American political system/government is just not working.
  • RedbeardUH, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Unnecessarily alarmist headline.
  • AniceAtheist, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2 It has nothing to do whether the individual gains or loses, but whether the artist loses out! (not in regards to this particular case but in general)

    So does the artist lose out. Well If I never plan on paying for the movie for whatever reason. (Lets say I can't afford it, I'm too poor) has the artist lost anything in my watching said movie? no in fact the artist stand to gain through word of mouth advertising, through me becoming a fan of her work, through me loving it so much that even though normally I can't afford it I go out of my way to purchase it for all the extras the dvd has and because it looks shiny on my table.

    Now lets say I can afford it and the only reason I am not buying these movies anymore is because I can download them for free. Does the artist lose out? YES they do. how much do they lose on a $15 movie? Probably $2 to $3 at most. So now the question becomes what is worse in a society, stiffing an artist of $2 to $3 or parking in a fire lane where it can potentially cost Tens of thousands of dollars and the loss of life. How many citizens are clamoring their government for protection against down-loaders? Is it truly a representative government that spends such an inordinate amount of time on an issue that affects a very small % of the population while ignoring much larger issues affecting a broad group of voters.
  • nbcivic, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0this is weird, but what i like to do is buy the music cd, for example, if i liked it after listening to it through torrents.
  • masterc, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2"who were initially convinced to one year in prison"

    I don't know about them, but I'm not going to let anybody convince me to go to prison...
    • Cglass, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2They have candy and movie night there :D
  • cr4ft, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1/me moves to Italy
  • arbguy1, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0finally, a country that seas a difference between stealing, and writing numbers on a hard drive
    • Avalontor, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1too bad you didn't really read TFA because you would that they are not different then other countries. There is still copyright laws buddy, you can't get around them ever. You can use semantics to make it sound like downloading is right but in the end it's still wrong. And they will get you for it. Sleep tight.
    • arbguy1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@avalontar

      "And they will get you for it."

      arguments based on pure speculation are simply not credible

      "There is still copyright laws buddy, you can't get around them ever."

      uh, false, i have been getting around them for years.

      "You can use semantics to make it sound like downloading is right but in the end it's still wrong."

      no, its not "wrong". what is wrong is telling people what they can do with their own equipment at home.

      "Sleep tight."

      your post is NOT BY ANY MEANS scary, you ***** moron.
  • WhiteRaven, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Doesn't downloading something that is legally for sale automatically mean the downloader is profiting? The software or media is worth something. That's profit.
    • Salgat, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Apparently you can't justify persecuting them with that arguement.
    • Avalontor, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Whiteraven you sure got that right. the smarmy "I wasn't going to buy it anyway *****", is just that *****.

      If you don't pay for it then you don't have the right to use it. What give you the right to use it if you don't pay for it?

      Simple.

      P.S. I always get a kick out of this fact. How many pirates today would walk into their Best Buy or Walmart and use any of their excuses like walking out the door with Photoshop CS. I wasn't going to buy it anyway so I'll just take a copy. I mean the media isn't worth $700, it's the content that is. That would be stealing of course but when you download the $700 worth of content it's OK.
    • WhiteRaven, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1@Salgat,

      The word is prosecute.
    • wickedsun, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@Avalontor

      Yeah, and taking someone's picture actually steal their soul.

      When you take a physical copy, in Fantasyland, it's the same as downloading it. In the real world, however, when you download a copy of something, you are not depriving anyone of anything other than "a potential sale". A physical copy is not the same as a digital copy (something from which you can make an infinite number of copy).
    • arbguy1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0writing numbers on a hard drive IS NOT STEALING!! so you should stop using that stupid shoplifting example, since it is a false analogy. stealing would correspond to kidnapping the artists, and having them play music for you only.
  • Grumps, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Ferrari baby.
  • jamthehut, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2i live in italy. I download like crazy. I justify it because w/o torrents I would have missed %90 of the films that were released (even internationally) in the past 3 years. And the %10 that do come here (usually 4-5 months later) are with awful translations overdubbed so you miss a whole dimension of the movie anyway.
    Am I going to see the italian dubbed Borat when it comes out in March? Hell no. The placards at the cinema don't even translate the title correctly: it's grammatically correct!
    • AniceAtheist, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Another good reason why downloading is useful.
      Wait till everything switched to High-Def and it starts costing $40 per movie. you'll see how even more people start downloading. What are you going to arrest people for not being able to afford to be part of the culture. And even the ones that can afford it, so what. Aren't there issues that affect more Americans that government should be working on?
      How many people in a country of 300 million are actually negatively affected by downloading movies. seriously give me a break, those against it just sound like unpaid corporate mouthpieces.
  • endlessraining, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Bush's War on Piracy in Italy. Coming to your news station in 2008!
  • GaurdianDevil, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1You can't convince me to one year in prison.
  • gameblogger9, on 09/12/2008, -0/+0hey cool....
  •  

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