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Father brain damaged by youth who served only half sentence

dailymail.co.uk — I think that capital punishment should be re-introduced in Britain for cases like this one.

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  • davidamerland, on 02/19/2008, -59/+31I live in Britain and I am aware that we are a society with violence suppressed and released by alcohol, far too often. Capital punishment would destroy a further three lives in this case without providing any deterrent (when you're drunk you do not think of the consequences). I will argue that in Christopher's case he should not have talked to the drunks without being prepared for a fight (it was naive of him) but that also puts the responsibility back on us and the society we fashion. Why are we so angry and why are we so frustrated that we look for release in alcohol and then allow it to release the violence in us? In this case this is a collective failing in a large scale of our society and for that every British person is responsible. Does it make the suffering of Christopher's family any easier? No. But unless we manage to find a solution that takes the anger away we will never be rid of tales like this.
    • evernerve, on 02/19/2008, -1/+11Where do you think this anger comes from? This is what puzzles me. Instead of fighting the problem at its root (finding the cause of the anger and discontent), there are just more CCTV cameras being installed. Like that 'll solve anything. Did you see the film 'Outlaw'? I liked it, but can you tell me if it portrayed the situation with violence in Britain well? Is it like that - not the vigilantes, but the violence?
      • davidamerland, on 02/19/2008, -6/+8Hi, this is a far-reaching question. We are restless. There are too many of us in too little space. There are too many pressures to succeed and not enough outlets. I am only guessing here. There are a million little things that contribute, each in its own way to this anger. When you're drunk no number of CCTV cameras or penalties are going to stop you, as you rightly say. You are out of control and that's the problem, fighting the root cause however probably requires more involvement and social engineering than any government or political party is comfortable with. Outlaw exaggerated a lot of the violence. It is not as bad as that any more than the US is a gun-totting 'saloon town' where innocent students get gunned-down in cold blood at every college. Percentage wise the instances are few and far between, case in point, this happened several years ago. But it happens and even one incident is one too many.
        • toxicshok, on 02/19/2008, -6/+5uhh... gun-totting saloon town? The reason the kid was gunned-down in cold blood was because there were no guns besides the killers
          • CiXeL, on 02/20/2008, -3/+5do british men pee sitting down too?
            that is the most push-over wussy excuse for justifying and rationalizing a heinous act i've ever heard david.
            its very clear to me why we (the US) won our independence.
            grow a pair!
          • mightydavefish, on 02/20/2008, -1/+2Uh, right moron.
            Why, if EVERYONE had a gun there would be no crime at all!
            That's the dumbest line of crap EVER.
        • davidamerland, on 02/19/2008, -6/+4I know, this is the classic reply alongside "guns don't kill people, people do" arm the homicidal maniac with a knife or a baseball bat instead of a shotgun or high-velocity handgun and the body count goes down, never mind the ability to actually carry out a large-scale assault. So let's keep this a little real please.
        • Whoopteedoo, on 02/20/2008, -2/+1I don't understand the negatives to your comment, David. You are spot on. The nanny state your country has become has taken so much reason for living away from the young, they might as well drink themselves into oblivion every day, if they can. And if they get thrown in the klink for something they've done, well then, the state can take care of them for the rest of their lives. It will take vigilante justice to deal with these drunken yobs, because your coppers are too busy poring over their CCTV pictures, handing out speeding tickets, and fining people for producing too much household garbage.
      • Dissonance, on 02/19/2008, -0/+5Time to bring in Clockwork Orange style social conditioning perhaps?
      • shodanx, on 02/19/2008, -3/+1ok, just so we're clear, I think britain suck
      • shodanx, on 02/19/2008, -5/+0ok, just so we're clear, I think britain suck
    • neocognitism, on 02/19/2008, -5/+24I hear what you are saying, but stories like this are why "an eye for an eye" was written.
      • davidamerland, on 02/19/2008, -10/+5Biblical and satisfying in a knee-jerk reaction but is it really justice? Think about it: if those who have perpetrated it are 'amoeba brains' it teaches them nothing. It does not teach their contemporaries anything and when drunk you do not think/cannot think of the deterrent. You are, by definition, drunk and out of control. So all you are doing is spreading more misery to satisfy the kind of urge that provides instant appeasement. The bigger challenge is to change society so it does not happen.
        • neocognitism, on 02/19/2008, -1/+5Yeah, I know, and given an hour to calm down, I agree with you. Some crimes are just harder to stomach than others, a bigger test of faith, if you will.
          • norman619, on 02/19/2008, -1/+9No. We put animals to sleep who attack and/or kill people yet we let humans who repeatedly do the same go free. The animal is just being an animal. The human's actions are much worse.
      • hellotyler, on 02/19/2008, -1/+9A fitting sentence would be to lobotomize them all.
        • norman619, on 02/19/2008, -3/+7They are a waste of human flesh. End their lives and be done with it. It is pretty clear the world is a safre place w/o them in it. It's not much of a punishment to have the people pay for the housing and support of these animals.
        • jj101, on 02/20/2008, -4/+3@norman - I hear you mate - disgusting thing to happen. But think about what you just wrote. Have you really never done anything stupid with some friends when you were drunk. Obviously this is much more than stupid but i hope you see where I'm going. Imagine that you had grown up in an abusive home. Imagine that the peer group you grew up with were all mostly similarly disadvantaged. Imagine that aggression was a necessary and everyday resort for most of your life till now. That you have had easy access to drink and drugs since you were 8 years old.

          Crimes like this are committed by people who have been failed by society. I'm not sure what the solution is but there is clearly a problem and it goes deeper than some bad parents.

          Having said that if this happened to me or mine I might be singing a very different tune. Sad, but honest.
    • SteelChicken, on 02/19/2008, -3/+13I really want to hear how you think society is at fault here.
      • davidamerland, on 02/19/2008, -7/+10Society is directly responsible through its structures, institutions and cultures for the people it produces. When it produces heroes we are ready to take the credit for it: they are the product of our time/place/culture/training. When it produces homicidal maniacs we are quick to disown them. They are an 'aberration'. Yet society is responsible, directly, for both. If we have a subset of people who feel so disenfranchised that they are constantly 'swimming' in impotent anger which finds release in alcohol-fueled violence (and does anyone remember the brutal Central Park rape of the female jogger by a bunch of youths who were 'Wilding'?) then society has failed that subset and, by association, has also failed to protect us, if we suffer that violence.
        • evernerve, on 02/19/2008, -4/+20Society supports violence. When was the last time when any bystander intervened in any of these situations? I witnessed a woman going unconscious and falling to the pavement because of the heat, during summer. She hit the ground face on and was badly hurt. Some guy helped her sit why I ran for water. Most people (young, good-looking, you would say 'decent' people) just stood buy. "Poor thing". I saw the same ***** happen in a traffic accident. People just stare, nobody does nothing. I had an urge to spit in their faces.

          Bullying in schools? Everyone just turns a blind eye. And then people wonder why there are shootings and suicides. Instead of fostering the spirit of cooperation and helping, ruthless, emotionless competition is being encouraged. Money, money, money. By any means. Just look at ***** like Big brother, football stars, models on crack... what is being promoted by the media? And the society as a whole?

          People just begin to cry and whine and complain when something horrible happens to them. When it's the other guy, then there is no solidarity.

          Public executions should be introduced. People shipped off to places like North Korea. Only then would they begin to behave decently and care for the welfare of others. *****.
          • rnwen2750, on 02/19/2008, -5/+7Wow, I dugg you up before I read the public executions. I don't think many people would find public executions to be a good idea.
          • norman619, on 02/19/2008, -1/+4You do know human nature is violence right? If you doubt it all you need to do is look at all of human history.
          • TheGuruStud, on 02/20/2008, -1/+4exactly, the Colosseum, anyone?

            Public executions (something that takes a while) would be a hit. I say we bring back the Colosseum,for the sake of punishing these worthless *****.
        • davidamerland, on 02/19/2008, -2/+9:) we had all that in the past: public hangings, floggings, shootings...was society any better then? We are moving into a brand new century - what we make of it is entirely up to us otherwise we may as well start hugging our Muslim brethren and yelling for Sharia law ....

          But I do agree we live in a society where at least at present we seem to be inert, inactive and celebrity-status seeking...
        • evernerve, on 02/19/2008, -2/+3I know, I know. I am just really ***** off when I hear about stuff like that.
    • Meatgrinder, on 02/19/2008, -5/+42Don't blame alcohol on this one. If you're dunk and don't care of the consequences then you are just a retard.
      • davidamerland, on 02/19/2008, -15/+4If you are drunk then you cannot, by clinical definition, critically analyse the consequence. That makes you, I guess, temporarily, a 'retard', as you suggest. Alcohol has become the catalyst.
        • evernerve, on 02/19/2008, -0/+16Couldn't agree more. Alcohol just serves to show the true face of someone. I went out and got drunk a myriad of times, but never ever even thought about getting in a fight or attacking someone. I enjoyed hanging out with my friends, laughing and chasing girls. Someone who gets this violent and aggressive when inebriated was ALWAYS VIOLENT and alcohol just tore down any inhibitions. It let the monster loose.
          • norman619, on 02/20/2008, -3/+2We all have a "monster" inside us. Most people like to pretend it isn't there but it sure is. It is part of what makes us human. The difference is that most people exercise self-control. Living in social groups requires us to reign in our monsters. Those who show they can't do this or worse, choose not to, should not be allowed to live with the rest of the group.
        • hellotyler, on 02/19/2008, -1/+5Some people are simply not equipped to use mind altering substances...
        • norman619, on 02/19/2008, -1/+6That is *****. I have gotten so drunk I couldn't move yet I was still able to think rationally. Control over my limbs was gone and communication was nearly impossible but I was fully aware of what was going on around me. All I could do was observe. People love to use alcohol as an excuse for doing somethng they knew they shouldn't have done and usually people allow that.
          • bagboyrebel, on 02/20/2008, -0/+2sorry, I've been around drunk friends and they obviously weren't thinking clearly but later they swore they were perfectly normal.
          • davidamerland, on 02/20/2008, -1/+1hmmm...let's get this right: you were, by your own admission, paralytically drunk and YET able to think clearly and rationalise? You could not communicate, could hardly move, but hey, piloting the space shuttle, taking part in the Grand Prix or even making value judgements on your own ability to deal with things rationally was no problem. I see.
          • norman619, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1@davidamerland:

            I am not new to mood altering substances. I have experimented just like many other people have. The difference between being sober and being high are pretty obvious. For example pot tends to alter my perception of time. It also makes me sometimes hilariously forgetful. Alcohol has no mind altering effect on me. If I drink too much I just loose motor control and communicating becomes a big chore. I am thinking clearly. It's like being trapped in my body when I get that drunk. If you experiment with real mood altering substances and compare them to beer you will see the difference.
        • Matt2k, on 02/20/2008, -0/+4Alcohol might make you less reserved to a significant degree depending on the amount consumed, but not to the extent that it alters your core ethics. Meaning, you aren't going to do anything while drunk that you *really* didn't want to do while sober. Including sleeping with your wife's sister. Also I'm not familiar with this "clinical definition" of alcohol that throws rationalism out the window. Maybe you could enlighten us laymen.
        • pwrstick, on 02/20/2008, -0/+2Your incredibly irresponsible thinking is summed up by a mind blowing inability to respect the following: you are responsible for your own actions. In this case, the youths are responsible for getting drunk, and then committing these heinous acts.

          If not, by your line of thinking, you can get drunk and 'do whatever', because hey! It's not my fault! I was drunk! That is no excuse, though it may be 'a reason'.
    • sk11, on 02/19/2008, -0/+34I knew a teacher who taught at a school with "troubled youths" and she pointed the blame squarely at poor parenting. She said the parents would refuse to discipline their children, or even blame them. They instead blamed teachers and others for the kids failings, whether it was poor grades or bad behaviour. In one incident, I witnessed a kid kicking some chairs around in debenhams, one chair hit an elderly woman. When she complained, the mother became quite aggressive and told her to "***** off." Talk about setting a bad example for her young children.
      • davidamerland, on 02/19/2008, -3/+6yes, this is a case of perpetuating behaviour - do yo not think it is society's duty to break the cycle?
        • evernerve, on 02/19/2008, -0/+6I agree. But it has to start with each family, each individual. Society isn't some abstract concept. And the sad thing is that people won't budge if the politicians don't tell them to do so, through a massive media campaign. Why don't they move by themselves? Do things need to reach a point where people turn into a lynching mob for the state to do something? Society - composed of individuals - never thinks to do anything by itself, everyone thinks for his/her own well-being. The politicians just blabber and people just go on with their daily distractions. That's why things are getting more degenerate each day.
      • nj10ii, on 02/19/2008, -5/+2I knew an old lady who lived in a shoe, had so many childern............................
    • Liam76, on 02/19/2008, -3/+7You just blamed society for the actions of these savages? The reason this happened is because they knew they wouldn;t see much jail time. If they got real life sentences (or even real 14 yr sentences), if other people who committed crimes like this got real sentences then they people would be much less likely to do it.

      You can blame bad parenting, or society or whatever you want but the only real failure I see in society, since it isn't a parent and can't force parents to be good is, is its failure to give this family justice.
      • davidamerland, on 02/19/2008, -3/+3That's an interesting opinion. You use the word 'savages' and you say there is a reason they did it which has to do with a calculation of what they would get. They were drunk and full of undirected anger. There was savagery in their attack, granted. But calculation? They were looking for a target. Society is a set of rules and conditions we all have to live by (it's the reason I do not shoot you and take your car just because it is better than mine). It creates the conditions that allow us to interact with each other and feel safe (or not). So, yep, it is a failure of society and in that we are all a little complicit and there are no easy answers here. I really wish I had one and I could say, "look this is what needs to be done to solve this", after my own anger dies down I have to think, like all of us "how can we make sure nothing like this happens ever again?" here I draw a blank, but like evernerve has commented we live in a society that does not adequately reflect the values we all share. It is a problem which can only be solved through careful, logical action.
    • philr8, on 02/19/2008, -4/+9Wow. I read more and more stories like this and the conclusion is that Britain is broken. These youths have no incentive to change their ways. They go to jail and get to go home on weekends and continue their reign of terror. They get to serve reduced sentences. They are free to attack again because they know that Britain has crimilized possession of "offensive weapons"; therefore, no one is prepared to defend themselves against anyone. These youths KNOW that they can attack in numbers and not be stopped.

      Actually, it appears that society IS the culprit here: a broken "justice" system that gives all the advatgaes of the system to the criminals. I've personally decided that I will never visit Britain. Good luck.
      • plingboot, on 02/19/2008, -3/+5I'm sure Britain will cope without you.

        It's worth noting that this is yet another scare mongering daily mail story.

      • joeconway, on 02/20/2008, -0/+5yet more fuel to the my decision to leave the UK ASAP.

        This is not daily mail scare mongering. If you live in essex(where this happened) like I do then occurances like this dont really come as much of a shock.
        • CiXeL, on 02/20/2008, -4/+1sounds like british men are too soft to survive.
    • HenryJonesJr, on 02/19/2008, -7/+6Capital punishment absolutely provides a deterrent. It would deter these three idiots from doing this ever again. This wasn't their first violent offense and will likely not be their last. Capital punishment isn't about sending a message, or exacting revenge, it's about keeping stains like these off the streets forever. Use your soul searching and bleeding heart to stop the next batch of thugs...for the ones already here, eliminate them.
      • tehbored, on 02/19/2008, -1/+4That's utter *****. You simply don't think of that when you're smashed.
      • davidamerland, on 02/19/2008, -1/+3It's not about soul-searching and bleeding heart liberalism and for the record I, like evernerve, am more than capable of responding in a 'totally catastrophic way' to a personal attack. This makes me all the more aware of the need to have a society that protects those who cannot, otherwise we are creating a jungle where we all try to be panthers and that is simple nonsense.
      • plingboot, on 02/19/2008, -1/+4Hmm.. you're wrong. capital punishment as a means of keeping criminals off the streets is crap.

        No one man, government or group has the right over life of any individual... that's it. basic human right. there are other convincing arguments against it but to me, in this country with an ever encroaching government, the fact that no-one has the right decide if I live or die is the strongest.
      • alan13, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1If capital punishment is a deterrent, then why in places like USA, where capital punishment is used in certain states, do you have shootings, murders etc, just like the rest of the world?
    • kidlinux, on 02/19/2008, -0/+5Lives 'destroyed' depends on your perspective. Further, perhaps it's not a deterrent but you can be sure the perpetrator will never commit such a savage crime again.

      Sounds like it's time to cull the herd.
    • DiggzDE, on 02/19/2008, -0/+5You can only blame society and other external causes so far before the only other place you can go is to blame yourself for the actions you have done and the events that you have caused.
      • davidamerland, on 02/19/2008, -0/+2Perfectly valid point. We are all part of society and as mentioned earlier, culprits at some point. There are no easy answers to a story as emotive as this.
    • tehbored, on 02/19/2008, -6/+3I don't know why you're getting buried. There is a deeper problem here and capital punishment will solve nothing. When you're really really drunk you simply can't think of all the consequences, so there goes you're deterrent. And I don't think anyone thinks "Oh I better not drink because that I might get too drunk and end up murdering someone." You can't really blame it on alcohol. Sure it tends to make some people more violent, but not like this. Primarily it lowers their inhibitions. Alcohol wouldn't make someone who is generally not an angry person into a murderer. The blame falls on society. Something (child abuse, poverty, etc.) made these people into violent killers.
      • AlexWills, on 02/19/2008, -0/+3And something kept them out of the jail for the sentences that they were supposed to be serving BEFORE they savagely beat him.

        It's called justice. Or lack thereof in this case.
      • DiggzDE, on 02/19/2008, -0/+6I don't know about you, but every time I've ever gotten drunk, I've never beat someone up or even shown any particular incline in violence toward another person. Are we supposed to believe that these young men (who had already previously been convicted of violence against others) are just kids who made the wrong decision to drink and thus lost all reasonable responsibility for their actions? Ludicrous I say, just plain ludicrous.

        It is obvious that these kids were violently inclined before they even started hitting the bottle and using their abuse of alcohol as an excuse for the outburst of their violent actions is just plain stupid. To push the blame on something else like "society" is to completely miss the point of what makes up a society; the individual beings who live in it.
        • tehbored, on 02/19/2008, -0/+1That is exactly what I said. Not outright mind you, but it was implied. They were already violently inclined due to past experience.
      • davidamerland, on 02/19/2008, -0/+4:) ... everyone wants to hear an 'easy' answer. Kill them,lock them up, punish them. Wipe up and let's move on. Crimes in society do not work like that. We are all responsible for our world, as you suggest. I agree with you.
    • dfdub, on 02/19/2008, -1/+7"when you're drunk you do not think of the consequences"
      If you were worried about getting 20-30 years behind bars, you might think a little harder...
    • war6986, on 02/19/2008, -6/+4I disagree with almost every point you made. You are the definition of a spineless, liberal pussy and you make me sick.
    • pintomp3, on 02/20/2008, -3/+1capital punishment is not about justice or deterrence, it's about revenge.
    • Magnus150, on 02/20/2008, -0/+5***** you.
      If your loved one(s) were beaten into mental submission by three drunken assholes, I guaran-*****-tee you that you wouldn't be saying "oh society, lets work on this," you'd want blood. I think these assholes need at least life, preferably capital punishment.
      • davidamerland, on 02/20/2008, -1/+1Yep, that's the instant gut-instinct thing. We are all prone to it. I also hope that in the 21st century we all a little past this caveman mentality where the biggest club on the block rules. The perps here got what the society we set up thinks they should get. We need to be able to accept that the institutions we set up will not absolutely please us all the time. We should also think: ok, why did this really happen? How? And how can we make sure it does not happen again. That is real progress. Anything else is an instant solution that only makes us feel good for now and solves nothing.
        • AgmLauncher, on 02/21/2008, -0/+1The first step in making sure this doesn't happen again is removing the people who committed the act from the public, permanently. THEN we can look at larger issues.

          If something in your house catches on fire, you don't sit there thinking about how to prevent another fire while everything burns, you put out THIS fire first, then think about it.
    • AgmLauncher, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1Davidamerland, unfortunately you've missed the point of capital punishment. The article stated that these kids were actually already in jail when they committed the attack (they just happened to be on parole). So intoxicated or not, they have no regard for whether they go to jail. Thus this will probably happen again. So another innocent person will be assaulted by people who should have be removed from society completely.

      Capital punishment is doing exactly what we do to rabid animals: put them down so they're not a threat. It's not about retribution, it's about safety. It's safer to kill someone capable of killing, than it is to release them from jail and hope they don't kill again.
    • osmans, on 02/21/2008, -0/+0In the words of Jeremy Clarkson: "I'd have police marksmen shoot them in the head".
  • Sherman901, on 02/19/2008, -0/+48how awful...... how can they have no remorse at all?
    • evernerve, on 02/19/2008, -2/+11And they are going to be adults some day... with their own kids... what will they teach them? What kind of example can they set for them? That's why I'm for harsher punishments. Otherwise, you give the kids the green light for this kind of behaviour. When they see that they can get away with it, they aren't going to be all nice and kind, that's for sure.
      • Rikkochet, on 02/19/2008, -0/+7I don't think punishment really works on really deranged criminals. It works wonders for bankers and dumbasses who just got drunk and did something stupid, but the real psychos can't be helped by punishment.
        Is it wrong to suggest sterilization?
        • nick111, on 02/19/2008, -1/+4This is from the Daily Mail, know locally as the Hate Mail.

          It's the UK paper version of Fox news, crossed with something slightly nasty.
          • Sherman901, on 02/23/2008, -0/+1yeah, but they didn't mention whether or not the kids were gamers or not or if they were democrat or ron paul supports.
    • bryanwebster, on 02/19/2008, -2/+3To be fair the article does not speak to the people who were responsible. Maybe they had no remorse at the time but who knows if they have remorse now, maybe they do?
      • davidamerland, on 02/19/2008, -2/+1Indeed, their 'sentence' may be just as bad in a different way...
    • maak666, on 02/19/2008, -0/+5This unfortunately is a worrying trend in the UK now. For example a teenage boy and a group of his friends kick a man to death outside his own house with his children watching. The teenager got a community order, not even a prison sentence.
    • eddielement, on 02/19/2008, -11/+2Who said they didn't have remorse!? How would you feel if you were drunk and accidently killed somebody (or even worse, turned them into a vegetable). OF COURSE you would feel grieved for the rest of YOUR LIFE. Our 15 minutes or so of reading this story is NOTHING compared to the amount of 15 minutes that will fit into each one of those murderer's lives. Put yourself in the murderer's shoes dammit.
      • davidamerland, on 02/19/2008, -5/+1i agree
      • stanfy86, on 02/20/2008, -0/+9Ummmm if you actually READ the article, it goes on to say that the youth's MADE JOKES ABOUT IT IN COURT: "Wakeling, Patterson and Ashman even laughed and joked in court, just as they did after they left Chris all but dying in the street. "

        If they made jokes about it they clearly dont feel any remorse, stop trying to defend these wastes of life.
    • Mootabolife, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1Clockwork Orange
      • orph3us, on 02/20/2008, -0/+3I think they should be required to take lsd, psilocybin mushrooms, or any psychedelic along with intensive therapy, to FEEL what they did. I want to look into their eyes and scream to their minds. THIS IS WHAT YOU DID, THIS IS WHAT YOU HAVE TO LIVE WITH FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. and on a psychedelic, I think they might just integrate into their minds what it is that they did. Otherwise, they will go about the rest of their lives being selfish, blaming the police and dad for incarcerating them instead of seeing the truth of what they have done. They should be kneeling at the door of that family, crying, sobbing for their life sobbing for forgiveness. Unless they do that, they will never be whole. It's obvious they weren't whole to begin with though, so the intense therapy would have to go pretty deep. I for one am an advocate of therapy with psychedelics. Especially with prisoners. Timothy Leary did an experiment with prisoners (i think it was tim leary at least) in which psilocybin was given to some inmates and a placebo to the others. The placebo group had a very high number of recurring criminals going back to jail, the psilocybin group however had something like a 70% non re-incarceration rate. Those are remarkable numbers, and from personal experience, I can say that psychedelics help you integrate reality into minds that have previously not been able to see the whole picture. It's something that this society needs. I hope some people read this and research this some more and make up your own minds about it. It's something I wish the world to know about.
  • Accolade1, on 02/19/2008, -1/+64Another sad story. And to think that he was savagely kicked in the head 32 times! Alcohol is frequentlly associated with violence, but it is up to the individual to know the differences between spontaneous impulsive reactions and actions in the moral right. I would definitely not blame the father for asking the kids to not swear in front of his kids though. Jail these kids for ruining not one, but four lives - the father's wife and two children.
    • logicalnoise, on 02/19/2008, -4/+5well there was 3 guys kicking all at once so at least 8 times each for the 3 of them. Which could be a bit too quick for their idiot minds to click in and say wait a minute We might be killing this guy.
      • davidamerland, on 02/19/2008, -0/+3I agree. They are beyond rational thinking and out of control...what happens when they come out of it is a different story...a year ago there was an equally sad story of a drunk guy killing his best friend by accident...at the funeral (he admitted guilt and was sentenced) he was beyond himself...
        • Magnus150, on 02/20/2008, -0/+4Yes, so just let them free for being drunk!
          It's their fault they were drinking, they should be punished harshly.
    • nj10ii, on 02/19/2008, -8/+3Why can't these yobs get it through their heads, no more than 21 kicks to the head or its over the top and they might hurt the guy?
    • signal15, on 02/20/2008, -0/+7I've never wanted to kick someone in the head, but after reading that story I wouldn't mind giving a few kicks to those hoodlums.
    • nonsequitor, on 02/20/2008, -3/+6Wow, if he only had a conceal carry license.
      • osbjmg, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1Yes, it is sad these stories I read from the UK - they are so far ahead of us as far as the big brother/loss of liberty thing goes.

        I don't think I would ever be drunk enough to decide to do something like kick someone in the head for barely a reason - and if I ever got that drunk, I'm sure I would not be in control of my body enough to stand anyway. That's more than just alcohol, these kids are thugs.
    • passedoutghost, on 02/21/2008, -0/+0Why, oh why can't people just get happy drunk like I do?

      In all seriousness, those bastards should be left to rot in jail and know what damage they have caused. The also burnt a man's face for *****'s sake!
  • jennyv13, on 02/19/2008, -10/+18omg that is so sad...where is the justice? God be with that family
    • downneck, on 02/19/2008, -11/+14how can you speak of god in a world where things like this happen?
    • hellokittyownsu, on 02/19/2008, -8/+8@downneck
      Things like that happen, because of people not God.
      • Incomp3tnt, on 02/19/2008, -7/+10Exactly, because he/she does not exist.
        • glory, on 02/19/2008, -9/+3No, because God gave people a free will.
    • tuntcickle, on 02/19/2008, -8/+3Xenu be with that family
  • Spartan900, on 02/19/2008, -1/+23The victims of these crimes, oh my goodness..our hearts go out to them and their familes :( Its just horrid. Lives destroyed by unthinking violence.
    The problem is not with us the victims. It is an element within society, a sub-culture if you will..that has turned its back on respect for others. It sounds harsh, but there are increasingly groups of people that live as vicious thugs. Why? Im not sure. Probably poor upbringings, fueled by a 'feel good' first, 'responsibility' second pop-culture.

    We cant stand back and let innocent members of society be they fathers, mothers and children be taken away because a thug has a bad moment on alcohol. Anti-Social behaviour needs to be treated seriously early on. Kids and parents need to be accountable. If that means some 'tough love' by the state, then lets get on with it.

    Children running around the streets swearing, and committing petty crimes needs to be a BIG red flag for law enforcement. No just dropping them back at home to often dysfunctional families (as happens in my part of the world)...action has to be taken.
    • davidamerland, on 02/19/2008, -0/+3I agree.
    • kidlinux, on 02/19/2008, -0/+2Responsibility? Who are you kidding?
    • spawnfree, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1my experience with this kind of dis-function is
      A: complete lack of involvement from thug father.
      B: total forgiveness from weak willed mother.
      and a complete lack of any real attention/teaching/love from either.

      The technical term is co-dependence, the women act all harmless and eager to please/do whatever pleases the men so they get what they want out of them. The men try to put forward an front of no weakness and get angry whenever they are made to feel any less than perfect. If either partner breaks their respective act then the other feels insecure and forces them back into it.
      This is why the cycle of co-dependence and the resulting need to control through manipulation and violence is an unbreakable one.
      this state of mind is what i grew up with, and every one of my friends. The only apparent difference is the more money in a family and the violence tends to be psychological rather than physical.
      England is a nation of intolerant bullies and submissive doormats.
  • topherdavis, on 02/19/2008, -2/+36Capital punishment? I'm not sure what that would do considering the guy wasn't killed. Why not just let all the non-violent drug offenders out so you can keep little ***** like this in there for their whole sentence?
    • evernerve, on 02/19/2008, -3/+15Well I agree - that's another good point. People get jailed for smoking pot, while violent criminals like these freely walk around. Today's laws are completely absurd! Especially Political correctness. Nothing being done, except blabbering by politicians.
    • patch6, on 02/19/2008, -1/+9Because that would make sense.
    • Barbosa, on 02/19/2008, -1/+2@evernerve - Damn, i didn't know they were locking people up for breaking political correctness laws these days. I guess I'm going to jail for my politically incorrect stance against capital punishment after all.
    • JaqMs, on 02/19/2008, -6/+0Jailing non-violent drug offenders would deincentivize drug use, meaning less drug trade, meaning less total violence.
      • BlackOp, on 02/20/2008, -1/+3You have a lot to learn.
      • Magnus150, on 02/20/2008, -1/+3Or a ruined future of a youth who just wanted to smoke in peace. No place will hire him, his record forever marred.
    • robertml1, on 02/19/2008, -0/+7he's a freaking vegetable. this is worse than killling him.. they should toast the little *****.
      • topherdavis, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1True, but by that logic 30 years of solitary confinement would be worse than being executed.
  • Grommy, on 02/19/2008, -1/+30This article reminded me of A Clockwork Orange.
    • davidamerland, on 02/19/2008, -1/+6Which, in England, spawned a copycat crime.
  • suzywang3000, on 02/19/2008, -6/+27capital punishment is a bit much, but castration seems like a good idea.
    • evernerve, on 02/19/2008, -3/+9A jolly proposal! :-) When there are no testicles, there is no testosterone and no aggression...I suppose? I am not sure, but experimentation should be started. On rapists and pedophiles for starters. Then move on to these violent individuals. Also, lobotomy could help a little.
      • suzywang3000, on 02/19/2008, -2/+7lobotomy - I like your thinking...
        • evernerve, on 02/19/2008, -4/+1I just followed up on your comment - you inspired me :) Now it's your turn to continue
      • mtrip, on 02/19/2008, -1/+4Then years later DNA evidence clears the guy you lobotomized and then what do you do?
        • Jennefah, on 02/19/2008, -1/+3No problem, we can keep the pieces of brain in jam jars with stick'ums on them for identification.
    • GeorgeWKush, on 02/19/2008, -18/+4Did you balls just drop? Is that why you're thinking about cutting off someone else's? Your comment was just ***** stupid. Really. Dumbest ***** comment ever.
      • CTK14A, on 02/19/2008, -4/+3Hah... I checked your page; the next comment you left after this one was "Idiocracy at its finest." Well... which is it? Are you FOR retards populating the Earth or AGAINST retards populating the Earth?
      • Chaoticfist, on 02/19/2008, -2/+4No it is a good idea. If people cant control their anger, cut it at the souce. Which would be your balls, and testosterone. It would suck, but well there would be less anger. Plus the loser could always take up singing after losing his balls.
    • DyDx, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1DOUBLE CASTRATION!
    • spawnfree, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1imagine a nation where every ten year old boy is given a vasectomy.
      how many unplanned pregnancy's would that prevent? probably all of them.
      and the procedure to collect some sperm, should any couples actually want children, may actually make people think about the responsibility and cost of raising them.
      But that would be against the unwritten welfare policy of creating as many unloved nutters as possible.
      I have heard men talk about having a 'few' kids for the social security; 'theres your beer money' was the phrase if i remember correctly.
  • bernandoo, on 02/19/2008, -1/+98How are 18 year olds sentenced as youths in the UK? That seems a bit old to be considered a youth.
    • IheartZombies, on 02/19/2008, -0/+24Especially considering they can drive and drink legally by that age.
    • rages4calm, on 02/19/2008, -1/+7I agree, so much for discipline.
    • thehappyhobo, on 02/19/2008, -8/+3They weren't sentenced as youths. They were just referred to as youths in the article. And 7, 11 and 14 years are pretty hefty sentences. How much have you experienced in fourteen years?
      • mimigins, on 02/19/2008, -0/+9How much of that man's life will he not experience thanks to them, and they can't even serve 14 years time for it?
      • fokov, on 02/20/2008, -0/+10How much is your life worth? $ and time? If you were savagely beaten for no reason by pieces of *****, you only want them to serve a few years, then get out and spend another 50 enjoying life, while you can't even get out of bed in the morning or identify your wife?
  • SebHughes, on 02/19/2008, -3/+33Those bastards should be locked up for good and the key thrown away, they don't deserve to see daylight again after what they did.
  • owenkun, on 02/19/2008, -1/+23You could argue that the judge is the one that's brain damaged in this case, oh ho!
    • evernerve, on 02/19/2008, -1/+12You said it well. What ***** criteria this judge had in his rotten brain when he handled the case? What do these retards have to do to get 20 years behind the bars or a life sentence? Repeat this 20 more times? Commit a massacre?
  • SpectralSounds, on 02/19/2008, -2/+64I think I would prefer to get shot and killed, instead of kicked in the head and turned into a vegetable for the rest of my horrible life.
    • davidamerland, on 02/19/2008, -0/+13Totally agree. It seems to magnify the awfulness of the crime. The victim and his family are the ones who really got 'life'.
    • Pilot85, on 02/19/2008, -0/+12yeah, at least that way they don't have to pay for my care and upkeep while being constantly reminded that I am now, and will ever be, no more than a shadow of my former self, unable even to say hello to the ones I love. Better I be dead and buried, and remembered the way I was.
    • ConceptRelation, on 02/20/2008, -0/+3Absolutely.
    • Magnus150, on 02/20/2008, -0/+4And yet, euthanasia remains illegal. If I was put in that kind of state I would want to go out as quickly as possible.
    • ProgressBar, on 02/20/2008, -0/+2Which is exactly why they should lobotomize those three little *****.
      • passedoutghost, on 02/21/2008, -0/+0Torture and castration seems like a much better idea.
    • DivineComedy, on 02/20/2008, -0/+3Holy *****, that wasn't a jab at the British gun laws, was it? If it was, that's a pretty bad critique.
      • davidamerland, on 02/20/2008, -0/+3I think it was and this story is throwing up some interesting US/UK divides on how our different societies deal with this issue. Overall, if you look at the comments the US approach seems to be along the lines of arm ourselves, shoot these guys, execute them, let's move on. There are some excpetions but overall this is a fascinating look into a society who's own Justice department released these figures:

        Feb 2008 Kazmierczak shoots dead five students

        — There have been five shootings in US schools and universities in the past few days. They include a nursing student in Louisiana who shot two students and herself, and a 17-year-old who shot dead another student in gym class

        — A massacre last week at a city hall meeting in Kirkwood, Missouri, left five people dead

        — In 2005-06 there were 14,300 incidents of children disciplined for using or possessing a firearm or explosive device

        — Two thirds of homicide victims in the US are killed with firearms

        — There are about 11,000 firearms-related deaths in the US annually – more occur in two days than the UK records in a year

        Source: US Department of Justice, CNN, agencies, Harvard University
      • spawnfree, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1I would hate to see the state of Britain if the kids that did this had easier access to guns.
  • dagnabbit, on 02/19/2008, -0/+58That is seriously ***** up. Those bastards gave out a life sentence, they should get one in return.
  • Chaoticfist, on 02/19/2008, -1/+11I have to say, wtf is wrong with people? Like seriously, if you can not control your self when drunk, you should not be drinking. Just the other day, i was out drinking with my buddies. Some stupid girls come up and start ***** with us. One of the girls actually punched me in the mouth. However i did not hit her back. Its called self control people. There was no reason to hit her, i could yes have beaten her into a pulp, but two wrongs do not make a right. Its really sad what happened to those people, very sad. It is ridiculous that Chris is now going to spend his entire life like that, while that teenager is scot free.
    • Typhoon2009, on 02/19/2008, -5/+13Two wrongs do make a ***** right. If you showed that kid a lesson then she and her friends would likely wise up and never cross people like that again.
    • Rikkochet, on 02/19/2008, -1/+10You didn't have to hit her or not. Just pin her to the ground and get everyone in the bar to fart on her head, then post polaroids of the event across town.
      That's the best education you can get.
    • passedoutghost, on 02/21/2008, -0/+0Normally I would let girls get away with most things, but in that instance, a bitch slap would be in order.
  • Picaroon, on 02/19/2008, -3/+33"The criminals have more rights than us; you cannot call that just"
    • MinorLemming, on 02/19/2008, -3/+2Pity their last concert sucked though
    • passedoutghost, on 02/21/2008, -0/+0I remember in a law seminar, my professor told me that a burglar was trapped up on a roof in England and the coppers were handing up KFC to the bastard so that his rights weren't violated. Talk about *****.
  • soot, on 02/19/2008, -1/+12What the ***** is wrong with people.
  • drizzlelicious, on 02/19/2008, -3/+12I don't believe in capital punishment. Maybe I have too much faith in humanity.
    • tehbored, on 02/19/2008, -1/+3Nah. I don't believe in it either and I have almost no faith in humanity whatsoever!
    • davidamerland, on 02/19/2008, -1/+4or maybe insufficient faith in the justice system to be 100% right every time - either way it's a healthy point of view to have.
    • SpasticThinker, on 02/19/2008, -1/+1Voting up for "too much faith in humanity".
    • theWaterboy, on 02/19/2008, -5/+1...or maybe you're just a douche.
  • Typhoon2009, on 02/19/2008, -5/+20Get your ***** act together, Britain. These stories sound like something out of a warzone.
    • CannedMango, on 02/19/2008, -4/+6Like Iraq?
    • davidamerland, on 02/19/2008, -3/+9hmmm...ok, useless comment because what about the College shootings in the States recently? Or is that a case of the US having its act together?
      • mirunit, on 02/19/2008, -2/+5One person with problems versus an youth epidemic in Britain?
        • Chaoticfist, on 02/19/2008, -3/+6But of course, forget the thousands of murders in the states. While Britain may have some issues with youth violence, it beats a drive by any day.
        • davidamerland, on 02/19/2008, -3/+9a youth epidemic? hmmm... ok, let's cut the ill-informed emotive ***** and get real for a change:

          — There have been five shootings in US schools and universities in the past few days. They include a nursing student in Louisiana who shot two students and herself, and a 17-year-old who shot dead another student in gym class

          — A massacre last week at a city hall meeting in Kirkwood, Missouri, left five people dead

          — In 2005-06 there were 14,300 incidents of children disciplined for using or possessing a firearm or explosive device

          — Two thirds of homicide victims in the US are killed with firearms

          — There are about 11,000 firearms-related deaths in the US annually – more occur in two days than the UK records in a year

          Source: US Department of Justice, CNN, agencies, Harvard University
        • Magnus150, on 02/20/2008, -1/+4"There are about 11,000 firearms-related deaths in the US annually – more occur in two days than the UK records in a year"
          Right, they just beat them into broccoli instead.
      • Whoopteedoo, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1I think you will find that most Americans do not give a damn about gang member upon gang member violence. As for school shootings, we are having our own epidemic of psychiatric excesses in prescribing harmful drugs to people who do not need them.
      • spawnfree, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1I have been reading about attacks like these since i was a child. the sentences differ but the violent scum never do.
        If it was financially or procedurally difficult to have children we could wipe out the abusive scum in a few generations.
    • SimonUK, on 02/19/2008, -0/+5Of course, it's from the Daily Mail.
  • Elissar, on 02/19/2008, -1/+20How can a crime like that not be a murder? Just because his physical body is living doesn't mean he's alive. The man's mind is gone, that is murder, and those people should be in jail a hell of a lot longer than 7 to 14 years.
    • thehappyhobo, on 02/19/2008, -0/+2Because murder is defined as causing death with intent to cause death or serious bodily harm. If the law considered him to be dead, then it'd be legal to kill him.
  • petomni, on 02/19/2008, -13/+17They need to re-introduce firearms.
    • Leetamus, on 02/19/2008, -9/+5yeah that works great in the states hey? omg...........
    • thehappyhobo, on 02/19/2008, -11/+5Right. Would his attackers have been eligible to carry a gun before they committed the crime? Undugg for stupidity.
    • mirunit, on 02/19/2008, -3/+9"Right. Would his attackers have been eligible to carry a gun before they committed the crime? Undugg for stupidity."

      For some reason, I do not think they would have. Honestly, most criminals do not bother with legal gun ownership because it is more difficult to maintain and more expensive aswell. I really do not understand the logic that someone with total disregard for the law would bother to legally own a firearm.
    • davidamerland, on 02/20/2008, -8/+3Check this out then:
      — There have been five shootings in US schools and universities in the past few days. They include a nursing student in Louisiana who shot two students and herself, and a 17-year-old who shot dead another student in gym class

      — A massacre last week at a city hall meeting in Kirkwood, Missouri, left five people dead

      — In 2005-06 there were 14,300 incidents of children disciplined for using or possessing a firearm or explosive device

      — Two thirds of homicide victims in the US are killed with firearms

      — There are about 11,000 firearms-related deaths in the US annually – more occur in two days than the UK records in a year

      Source: US Department of Justice, CNN, agencies, Harvard University
      • matador3, on 02/20/2008, -2/+7See, a lot of that is completely irrelevant. Who cares what percentage of murders are committed with guns? Is it somehow better to get stabbed or beaten to death? I rather think it would be worse. The only thing that matters is overall murder and violent crime rates and that's exactly what gun control groups completely ignore. The fact is that murder and especially violent crime rates have been skyrocketing in the UK since they brought in their draconian gun control measures; the exact opposite of what was supposed to happen. Meanwhile murder and violent crime rates in the US have been falling at the same time as per capita gun ownership rates go up and concealed carry becomes more widespread.

        I notice that all anti-gun arguments are tinged with a note of hysteria and irrationality. People seem to think that "if only guns were banned the world would be entirely at peace like it was before firearms were invented." Oh wait. The "if it saves one life" argument irritates me the most. Suppose a total gun ban does drop gun murders by 10%. "A wonderful success!" you say. But what is the unseen consequence of denying innocent people the most efficient means of self defense? What happens when criminals know that their victims are guaranteed to be unarmed and banned from fighting back with lethal force? Suppose the overall murder rate increases by 15%; and not only that, suppose the overall rape, robbery, and assault rates increase as well. Should any of that happen I'm afraid you've completely lost the plot.
        • gudnbluts, on 02/20/2008, -6/+4"The fact is that murder and especially violent crime rates have been skyrocketing in the UK since they brought in their draconian gun control measures; "

          This old lie. The limit on handguns only affected gun club people - around one in 2000 people - nobody had guns before the ban, nobody had them after it.
    • matador3, on 02/20/2008, -2/+7Gun Control's Twisted Outcome: Restricting firearms has helped make England more crime-ridden than the U.S.

      http://www.reason.com/news/show/28582.html
      • Magnus150, on 02/20/2008, -2/+6The innocents no longer have a means of protection, now just the criminals have them.
    • gudnbluts, on 02/20/2008, -7/+4What do you mean "reintroduce". People were never armed in Britain. The ban that gun nuts lie about only affected a handful of gun club people.
  • SnapETom, on 02/19/2008, -3/+10Jeez, ***** visiting Britain.
    • plingboot, on 02/19/2008, -4/+3its just daily mail scare mongering.
    • piper999, on 02/19/2008, -1/+7A colleague of mine and his wife visited Britain a couple of years ago. They were so excited to go and talked to me about it a lot before going (I'm British).

      They got robbed at knifepoint on the top deck of a bus on the second day of the visit and ended up coming home early. I didn't know whether to laugh or be ashamed of what my home country can be like.
    • spawnfree, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1this really is nothing new.
  • Ruger11mcrdpi, on 02/19/2008, -20/+48This is what happens in a country where the people aren't allowed to have weapons for self defence. Try to do that in Texas and you'll likely be shot. We need to protect our second amendment rights.

    Oh yeah, and dig me down for being pro-gun... there ya go, thanks.
    • takamalak, on 02/19/2008, -11/+13I dugg you down for mentioning Texas.
    • Litespeed, on 02/19/2008, -8/+5You have a point, but I think in this case it wouldn't make a difference. The father doesn't sound like someone who would pack heat even if he could.
      • Leetamus, on 02/19/2008, -4/+5exactly. I'm guessing the youths would though.
        • mirunit, on 02/19/2008, -0/+4I would have guessed knives, a gun can be a troublesome thing when heavily drunk.
      • smackphat, on 02/20/2008, -3/+6He wouldn't have to pack heat. The teenagers wouldn't be so bold if law-abiding citizens had arms.
      • gudnbluts, on 02/20/2008, -4/+3You'd have to lead a pretty fear filled life to habitually carry round a weapon.
        • orph3us, on 02/20/2008, -0/+2Dugg up! Don't know why you are getting dugg down. You speak the truth. Even if there is merit to carrying weapons in cases like these. All sides of the argument must be paid attention to.
    • xomb13z, on 02/19/2008, -13/+6What, so the kids could have just shot him instead? Weapons won't just fall into the hands of those defeanding.
    • Wosat, on 02/19/2008, -9/+11I dugg you up for mentioning Texas.
    • war6986, on 02/19/2008, -6/+2and then they would have gotten the death penalty. talk about some deterrents in place to protect innocent civilians: weapons to protect themselves, and laws that actually punish the guilty. these are some concepts that liberals have a hard time wrapping their heads around while pondering how society caused those poor boys with eczeme to beat a man for no reason.
    • davidamerland, on 02/20/2008, -8/+3Check these stats out from the US Department of Justice:

      — There have been five shootings in US schools and universities in the past few days. They include a nursing student in Louisiana who shot two students and herself, and a 17-year-old who shot dead another student in gym class

      — A massacre last week at a city hall meeting in Kirkwood, Missouri, left five people dead

      — In 2005-06 there were 14,300 incidents of children disciplined for using or possessing a firearm or explosive device

      — Two thirds of homicide victims in the US are killed with firearms

      — There are about 11,000 firearms-related deaths in the US annually – more occur in two days than the UK records in a year

      Source: US Department of Justice, CNN, agencies, Harvard University
    • Sogui, on 02/20/2008, -9/+5There has never been a problem that has ever EVER been solved with "more guns", more guns = more killing, it's not that hard to understand.

      You give a gun to the victim to defend himself (would he really shoot 3 unarmed drunkards until it was too late to fight back?), and you're giving guns to his 3 attackers as well.
      • Ruger11mcrdpi, on 02/20/2008, -2/+6Oh ok, so the threat of the innocent citizens these hoodlums are beating up and killing possibly having a gun, WON'T deter them? I disagree. Also, if the kids use guns then guess what... now it's a bigger offense and they go to jail for a longer time.

        As for the school shootings in America, well gues what, there's no one stopping this from happening. At my college (UT AUSTIN) there's no metal detectors, searches, etc. There are retal cops and real cops occasionally patrolling, point is if someone wants to do a horrible killing they can. And if they didn't want to use a gun, well the parts for a really powerful bomb are at home depot, or even a welding shop. I wish they'd allow active duty and reserve military to take an advanced CCW course and then let them carry concealed handguns anywhere with no restriction. These idiots that are going off the deep end aren't well trained killers. I'm an active duty Marine infantry Sergeant. I'd have zero hesitation to put a bullet in some freak's head if he started shooting.
        • Matt2k, on 02/20/2008, -3/+3> Oh ok, so the threat of the innocent citizens these hoodlums are beating up and killing possibly having a gun, WON'T deter them

          No. Anyone that murders a man in the alley for asking them to not curse around his son is not concerned with abstract concepts like that.
          • sonicdevo, on 02/20/2008, -2/+1Abstract concepts like... fear for his life? Are you kidding me?
          • Matt2k, on 02/21/2008, -0/+1> Abstract concepts like... fear for his life? Are you kidding me?

            No. I can agree to a degree with the firearms-as-protection argument, but the firearms-as-deterrent doesn't seem to hold a lot of water. Maybe you don't know as many stupid people as I do.
    • nonsequitor, on 02/20/2008, -2/+8I got two paragraphs into that article, which was quite lengthy, and immediately thought of 2 words.
      Concealed Carry
      Its called a Peacemaker for a reason. Those youths wouldn't be so uppity if they didn't KNOW he was unarmed. With a gun ban, criminals are guaranteed that civilians will not have a gun. Plus if he did have one he could have easily defended himself against 5+ drunken teenagers.
  • hellotyler, on 02/19/2008, -3/+14I do not condone capital punishment, however, LIFE in prison is the only sentence these youths should have received. This kind of ***** is exactly why I carry a weapon with me at all times... So sad....

    How about we start locking up and KEEPING locked up the violent offenders who truly damage our society? Let the people with victimless crimes go free (drug cases) so they can focus on what is really important. Protecting innocent people from violent criminals.
    • nj10ii, on 02/19/2008, -1/+4Another attoricity to consider would be, if he did have a weapon and used it to protect himself from just this out come. Who would be in jail today?
      You people need to fix that *****!
  • wastedfish, on 02/19/2008, -10/+4Anyone else think of a Clockwork Orange?
  • notmiya, on 02/19/2008, -1/+8I think it is incredibly brave and loving for the wife to take care of her husband for all these years. This story makes my heart weep and smile at the same time... Knowing that love like this still exists in the world, I can hold onto my hope that with my man of four years, we could endure such a loving relationship as this. Through thick and thin, sickness and in health...
    • nj10ii, on 02/19/2008, -1/+5What else would YOU do? Abandon the poor SOB in the care facility? Not likely.
    • Matt2k, on 02/20/2008, -1/+3> I can hold onto my hope that with my man of four years, we could endure such a loving relationship as this

      No notmiya, I wouldn't hope for such a thing on my worst enemy. What that lady is going through is a lifelong nightmare. How do you "move on" and start a new family while your husband is still "alive" in the institution? DO you one day decide to file for a divorce? DO you stop seeing him or do you fix a pack of flowers and go up with your new boyfriend? Their relationship isn't enduring, it's frozen, one sided, and terrible.

      It would ***** suck beyond all belief. He would be better off dead. And that sucks even more.
      • korvan504521, on 02/20/2008, -0/+2Personally if I was a vegetable in a chair, I'd rather my girl let me die and moved on so she could be happy again. My life as a useless vegatble would only prolong both our pain.
  • keiran4u4eva, on 02/19/2008, -1/+1I don't particularly agree with capital punishment, personally, as we're prone to mistake, and have enough problems with miscarriage of justice as it is! But just think about this for a second "Escape from Isle of Man"... ?
    • downneck, on 02/19/2008, -0/+2it'd certainly make the TT races a lot more interesting
  • evernerve, on 02/19/2008, -0/+2It proves what has been known for a long time. That money is more important to the powers that be than human lives. Just read this:

    http://digg.com/politics/Ex_soldier_jailed_for_tax ...
  • halkeye93, on 02/19/2008, -6/+9Dumb people I swear. You can punish people by death even though there are way to many Darwin award candidates out there. You can't smoke Pot because it is to dangerous. You can video record every street in the UK 24/7, but you wonder why people are more violent and dumber than ever. How about this in the yesteryear's if you were a Darwin candidate you were removed from the population whether it be humanly or violently. We have supposedly evolved right? Then why is there more violence and recklessness than ever? Because people as a whole have become ignorant socialist pussy's. Wake up ***** you want to be safe do something about it. carry your gun make your fellow man respect you and support punishment for crimes and support the correct punishment. Lets do some civil gene pool sifting.
    • davidamerland, on 02/19/2008, -1/+3ok..I guess by the sheer grammatical structure and use of expletive here that when it came to 'assessment' of the gene pool you'd be the first to be weeded out...so a little more constructive and less emotive please.
    • Zurahn, on 02/20/2008, -1/+2In short, kill the stupid? I guess you're the first to go, given that kind of attitude.
  • poidh, on 02/19/2008, -3/+19We have this wonderful socialist system which brings with it an intelligence which is unable to be intelligent. When someone commits a crime, it is always "society's fault". This ideology states that no-one is responsible for their own actions; there is always a "root course". *****. We should apply a more Darwinian approach - you show the utter stupidity and evil intent which causes you to set about someone for no reason, you lose your freedom and your right to reproduce.

    In cases like this, we need a terminal cancer sufferer to mete out proper justice on the degenerate rats who commit these crimes. At least justice can be done this way, until the law is changed to reflect reality.
    • evernerve, on 02/19/2008, -1/+10Yes, it is always made into something abstract: "society", "groups", "poor, restless youth", "criminal elements". There are never any concrete answers. There are no politicians who will speak their mind anymore, everyone is adhering to the rules of political correctness. While hideous attacks like this one happen all the time. And there those who say that it isn't correct to give heavy sentences to criminals like these, etc. *****. These kinds of "citizens" understand only violence and the law of the strongest. Anything less than that and they show defiance and arrogance.
      • poidh, on 02/19/2008, -1/+6Absolutely. We need to make parents legally responsible for their offspring until the offspring reach 18 years of age. That will do for starters.
        After that, anyone who commits unprovoked violence aginst such a person who requests they they stop kicking his car, urinating on his garden, harassing old people, etc, etc, etc, gets the ***** beatdown approach. Why should us peaceful citizens have to walk around in fear, knowing full well that if we get beaten up, the criminals will be released within months to do the same again or worse?
        Oh, and if someone could please make a political party based on honour and decency, then they'd get my vote (I can't do this because I've got too many irate ex-girlfriends in the closet who would upset my campaign, lol).
        • evernerve, on 02/19/2008, -0/+1If you are a nuisance to someone, sex is the way to smear, blackmail and destroy. Good ol' ways always work. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned! Hmm... I guess that my plans of becoming PM are screwed too - I just remembered my ex-ones. Ouch.
    • Typhoon2009, on 02/19/2008, -2/+7If death was on the table for these things, I'd bet my house that it'd reduce crime. Assaulting and killing strangers isn't so exciting when you're threatened with never breathing another breath as punishment.
      • poidh, on 02/19/2008, -3/+3I don't think that we should go that far. Punishment should be strict but we shouldn't go so far as killing the criminals. A balance must be struck.
        • noosaboy, on 02/19/2008, -3/+3I agree.
          It would be OK if we could be sure we always get the right offender, but how many times has the justice system convicted the wrong person...and putting to death innocent people is hardly the sign of an enlightened society.
          Bring back public floggings I say. Publicly humiliate the scumbags.
          • poidh, on 02/20/2008, -4/+3I think that public humiliation would only work in a society which has strong morals. The British society no longer has strong morals. Collectively, we have a mountain to climb.
      • pintomp3, on 02/20/2008, -3/+4except the death penalty is about as effective a deterrent as abstinence only education.
    • matador3, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1I agree but not with the "we" part. I don't think "we" need to do anything but get out of the way of an individuals right to defend him or herself. I don't care if some asshole gets killed while trying to attack somebody but it does no good to take another life after the fact. That's how I'm pro-gun but anti-death penalty, everybody has the right to life but they lose that right during the commission of an attack on another person (who also the right to life).
  • xxgigavirusxx, on 02/19/2008, -0/+15It the parents of the teenagers fault.

    People need to learn how to bring up their kids properly with respect and rules
    • atomicwedgie, on 02/19/2008, -0/+3Bingo.... however government has taken away a lot of the tools parents have used in the past. Like belts, sticks, a heavy dinner dish, etc.
      • xxgigavirusxx, on 02/19/2008, -0/+3My parents never used any of that on me. They just screamed really loud. I think some people in our current time are like "OMG THAT CUTE BABY.. LETS HAVE ONE" without thought on how to raise it and such. Thus ruining our society
        • chuckDontSurf, on 02/20/2008, -0/+8"I think some people in our current time are like "OMG THAT CUTE BABY.. LETS HAVE ONE" without thought on how to raise it and such."
          Actually, I think it's probably more like "OMG SEX FEELS REALLY GOOD LET'S HAVE IT!"
      • Jennefah, on 02/19/2008, -0/+3I agree with xxgigavirusxx. My parents would only resort to hitting if we were putting ourselves in danger (screwdrivers into plug sockets, and other such fulfilling activities ^^). They would shout when they had to but not overly so. Just enough to gain our respect.
        I think young people not understanding the meaning of respect and decency to their fellows is a big part of the problem here.
        • sovietamerica, on 02/19/2008, -0/+2why would you try to put a screwdriver into a plug socket?
          • Jennefah, on 02/20/2008, -0/+4I was in the inquisitive toddler stage... and now I know that if I try putting a screwdriver in a plug socket, a mum will hit me. Also electrocution and stuff.
  • Heavy, on 02/19/2008, -4/+3As the Frank Castle said "This is not vengeance. Revenge is not a valid motive, it's an emotional response. No, not vengeance. Punishment" and capital punishment is just that vengeance and invalid motive and purly an emotional response and have no place i our society!
    • SpasticThinker, on 02/19/2008, -0/+3But Frank Castle killed people as punishment...
    • Matt2k, on 02/20/2008, -0/+3Well, I get what you're saying, but you contradicted yourself in your own citation. I'll let you puzzle out how.
  • bobburn, on 02/19/2008, -2/+12These people, all old enough to know right from wrong, should have been given life sentences without the possibility of parole. This father of two has no possibility of recovering, neither do these depraved pieces of garbage.
  • bwdd, on 02/19/2008, -0/+10Sometimes I read stories that make me so angry I just don't know what to do. URRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH.
  • ghostpawrunner, on 02/19/2008, -0/+24If such a thing were done to my father, I can say with great certainty, as his oldest son, that I would not let bygones be bygones.
    • Robthefrog, on 02/19/2008, -1/+5I'm sitting here thinking the same freaking thing.
  • gareth805, on 02/19/2008, -2/+4The problems are twofold. A criminal justice system that like in the U.S. wants to lock away non-violent offenders with drug problems, while letting violent criminals off with a wrist slap, and a culture that celebrates heavy drinking with a government so in bed with the drinks companies nothing will EVER be seriously done about it i.e. restricting access to cheap alcohol, taxing it heavily, banning drinking outside and raising the drinking age to 21.
    • nextyoyoma, on 02/20/2008, -2/+5I think the problem is that we restrict alcohol so heavily. If we didn't grow up thinking of it as a forbidden thing only for "grown ups" then we wouldn't make such a big deal about getting alchol.
  • hifiDesign, on 02/19/2008, -1/+9Cases like these are infuriating. Please read the story of Zach Sowers:

    http://www.zachsowers.com

    Most of his attackers plead out, while one is now incarcerated far long than the others. In cases like this, if the victim dies while still comatose, or in a vegetative state, the attackers should be retried for murder. Regardless of how long it takes... Marion Ingrouille will never have her husband back, nor is it likely that Anna Sowers will have Zach back...
  • hifiDesign, on 02/19/2008, -6/+3Cases like these are infuriating. Please read the story of Zach Sowers:

    http://www.zachsowers.com

    Most of his attackers plead out, while one is now incarcerated far long than the others. In cases like this, if the victim dies while still comatose, or in a vegetative state, the attackers should be retried for murder. Regardless of how long it takes... Marion Ingrouille will never have her husband back, nor is it likely that Anna Sowers will have Zach back...
  • davidjunit, on 02/19/2008, -6/+20Glad to see gun control keeping violent crimes down in England.
    • MinorLemming, on 02/19/2008, -5/+8But... But ... but ... no guns makes society _safe_, right?
      But it gets better... Technically I am committing a crime every day I take my leatherman to work with me under new guidelines / requests from our Scottish Overlord, Gordon Brown.
    • davidamerland, on 02/20/2008, -8/+8David, gun ownership works great in the US:

      — There have been five shootings in US schools and universities in the past few days. They include a nursing student in Louisiana who shot two students and herself, and a 17-year-old who shot dead another student in gym class

      — A massacre last week at a city hall meeting in Kirkwood, Missouri, left five people dead

      — In 2005-06 there were 14,300 incidents of children disciplined for using or possessing a firearm or explosive device

      — Two thirds of homicide victims in the US are killed with firearms

      — There are about 11,000 firearms-related deaths in the US annually – more occur in two days than the UK records in a year

      Source: US Department of Justice, CNN, agencies, Harvard University
      • matador3, on 02/20/2008, -2/+6Gun murder bad! Every other type of murder good!
    • Sogui, on 02/20/2008, -7/+7Don't let facts get in the way of your anecdotes there chief. Like someone said there are more gun deaths in the US in 3 days than there are for a year in the UK.

      1 guy brain-dead from being beaten from drunkards < Thousands dead-dead from guns.
    • Brockmann, on 02/20/2008, -2/+2A troll on Digg? Say it ain't so.
      • nonsequitor, on 02/20/2008, -1/+2That is not trolling, trolling would have been making a comment about the drinking age being too low.
    • matador3, on 02/20/2008, -2/+6Gun Control's Twisted Outcome: How restricting firearms has helped make England more crime-ridden than the U.S.

      http://www.reason.com/news/show/28582.html
    • pintomp3, on 02/20/2008, -2/+5so he could be shot in the head instead of kicked?
  • atomicwedgie, on 02/19/2008, -0/+3Geezus... I am SOOO tired of these punk ass kids getting away light now-a-days. If I could do it all over again, I would NOT have kids of my own so that right about now I could form a posse to go look for these little *****. This is totally ludicrous.
  • Ziminrax, on 02/19/2008, -0/+3Urgh, Crime is getting worse in the UK. It seems like a lot of the people who commit the crimes get away with a slap on the wrist.
    We really, really need capital punishment back.
  • RaggTopp, on 02/19/2008, -21/+2No one else thought some of this article strange? Why would people, drunk or not, react so viciously to a man being "polite?"

    Me thinks he instead had some very choice words for them and came at them with this "self-righteous parent attitude. I'm sorry, I feel bad for the guy's family that they have to suffer for his mistake, but ***** him. He did something blatantly stupid and now he's suffering the consequences. His pride and bullheadedness got him into the situation he's in now. He didn't HAVE to go back out, in fact from the article his SOLE reason for going BACK outside was to go give those punks an earful.

    Oh and ***** the kids, they're pieces of ***** for doing this to the guy.....but he brought it on himself if only because he wanted to order someone else around...an asshole move on his part.
    • atomicwedgie, on 02/19/2008, -1/+7Wow... I can only guess that you are one of the following:
      A. A parent of one of these punk ass '***** only in groups' piece of ***** kids
      B. You are one of those '***** only in groups' piece of ***** kids
    • plingboot, on 02/19/2008, -4/+4he's got a point. this is a daily mail story which means we're getting a very skewed version of events, they twist these stories to get you riled and angry, and it seems to be working.
    • Jennefah, on 02/19/2008, -1/+3Was he taking a big risk? Yes. Should he have left it be? Probably. BUT if we all did that then we'd only be giving these thugs more power on the streets... we'd be "giving them the nod". Too many people are backing down and that's why kids like that are getting ***** and confident enough to kick a guy into brain damage or death.
      He wasn't the bullheaded or arrogant one. The drunken kids who stole his life away ARE.
    • theWaterboy, on 02/19/2008, -2/+2I hope someone does this to your mother... let's see if you feel the same way.
    • war6986, on 02/19/2008, -1/+1Judging by your comment I am 100% positive that you have never met a chav, a drunk one at that.
    • RaggTopp, on 02/21/2008, -0/+1Standing up to a group of drunk assholes that appear to be violent..........and getting your ass ***** beat to death by them..... is SURE gonna teach them a lesson. Standing up to them and LOSING is only going to encourage them more you ***** moron.

      You're a ***** idiot. You're obviously too stupid to understand when the media is hyping things up and not telling the whole story. And you're also too ***** stupid to understand how not to pick losing battles. Explains why so much is wrong in this world.
  • SpookyApplePie, on 02/19/2008, -12/+8KILL ALL CHAVS!!!!! KILL ALL CHAVS!!!!! KILL ALL CHAVS!!!!! KILL ALL CHAVS!!!!! KILL ALL CHAVS!!!!! KILL ALL CHAVS!!!!! KILL ALL CHAVS!!!!! KILL ALL CHAVS!!!!! KILL ALL CHAVS!!!!! KILL ALL CHAVS!!!!! KILL ALL CHAVS!!!!! KILL ALL CHAVS!!!!! KILL ALL CHAVS!!!!! KILL ALL CHAVS!!!!! KILL ALL CHAVS!!!!! KILL ALL CHAVS!!!!! KILL ALL CHAVS!!!!! KILL ALL CHAVS!!!!!
  • joker1972, on 02/19/2008, -0/+4What wrong with the world today. ***** idiots who are not given any value of life or what is right or wrong go out and almost kill someone. What do they get 3 to 4 years in a prison not the 11 to 17 that a judge handed down. They can got on with their lives. As for the victim, well he spends the rest of his so called life in a nursing home if you can call that life.
    • noosaboy, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1Maybe as part of their sentence they should be required to spend time looking after the victim ?
      Would that make them realise what they have done ?
      • Whoopteedoo, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1Well, that's ***** rich! They would just abuse him further!
  • securitymonkey, on 02/19/2008, -0/+5Reminds me of "The Brave One". Don't be surprised if these three yubs "Disappear" shortly after being released from prison.
  • OneHandBandito, on 02/19/2008, -1/+20The punishment should fit the crime. So all three of them should be kicked in the head 32 times each. Seems fair to me.
    • weeeezzll, on 02/19/2008, -0/+3*puts on his spiked steel toes*
    • Jennefah, on 02/19/2008, -1/+3I totally agree. I think the punishment should always fit the crime. Thieves should have items taken from them and given to their victims. Rapists and paedophiles should be castrated. Hit and run drivers should be hit by a speeding car...
    • davidamerland, on 02/20/2008, -0/+2and anyone making dumb comments in Digg should be dumbed down! lol
    • orph3us, on 02/20/2008, -1/+2funny, but an eye for an eye still makes the whole world blind.
  • Garric, on 02/19/2008, -8/+5These youths were actually Muslims, something you won't read in any mainstream newspaper.
    • plingboot, on 02/19/2008, -3/+7i'm sure if they were muslims the semi racist daily mail would be the first paper to point it out!!

    • weeeezzll, on 02/19/2008, -3/+4Probably because it's not really relevant. As much as I despise all religion and irrational belief, I bet this had nothing to do with religion, and tons to do with macho ego. I bet that father wasn't totally innocent and polite when he went back and asked them to stop either. More than likely he probably called them names and made vague threats. I certainly would have done the same. The only difference is that I would have brought my handgun along for the trip and the news story would be about a father who had to lay waste to three jobless wankers in self-defense.
    • tuntcickle, on 02/19/2008, -1/+10really? then why were they drunk?
    • pintomp3, on 02/20/2008, -1/+6so when christians commit violent crimes, do you feel the need to point it out also?
  • jserio, on 02/19/2008, -1/+2Punks! Road trip to Britain to play some soccer...
  • Mothity, on 02/19/2008, -1/+10i'm sick of these utter wankers. they sponge off society and intimidate people for no reason, there should be more police in britain and they should bloody well use a taser on people like this! the scum of society, what the hell is wrong with the judge if they don't give them life? and why the ***** do criminals get allowed to go out of prison at the weekend?! they should be kept inside their cell. when i establish my reich, scumbags like this will be locked up for life
    • OOTZ, on 02/19/2008, -3/+1Haha you win for saying "utter" and "wanker" in the same sentance.
  • Codylan, on 02/19/2008, -2/+10Sometimes the gene pool just needs to be thinned. These 3 bad guys with no remorse or any use to the world need to be taken out to a field and popped in the head with a .22 just so it can ricochet around a bit before their lights go out. Then bury them where they fall and then go have a sandwich.
    • weeeezzll, on 02/19/2008, -1/+5Are you ***** crazy!? That is just sick, what did that poor sandwich ever do to you?
    • OOTZ, on 02/19/2008, -0/+2Don't worry, nature will eventually do that for us. (although nature has been known to take a bit more direct approach than that whole thing with the .22 that you suggested).
  • 0biKwiet, on 02/19/2008, -0/+1I am unsure why people are so quick to condemn an "eye for an eye" justice system for being to harsh. In a justice system, rehabilitation is secondary to punishment. People who display behavior patterns that are detrimental to society should be quickly removed for a society like a cancerous growth. If the body spent all of it's resources in an often futile effort to "reform" infected cells, it would soon die. Sure, it's true that some people have things to offer society that may offset the effort it takes to reform them, and we must develop the ability to make objective cost benefit decisions. Gratuitous acts of random violence are an obvious indication of a personality that would be extremely difficult to adapt to the point that it would not be actively destructive, let alone beneficial to society.

    This is not about deterrence or the cowardly embrace of a arbitrary moral system, fabricated by people blinded from reason by their destructive self-righteousness. This is about reason and progress. This is the difference between a diseased, cancerous organism and a healthy strong organism that will survive into the future. People like this aren't bad, they are simply destructive, like a cancer cell or a virus. We must get rid of them, like we do so many millions of destructive bacteria in our own bodies every day. As natural selection takes it course, fewer and fewer "criminals" will be born. But, if we do not use our reason, natural selection will destroy our societies until one day a society rises up that has to courage to take the next evolutionary step forward.
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