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411 Comments
- noupsell, on 04/05/2009, -21/+137nickel and dimeing the U.S. taxpayer to death
- inactive, on 04/05/2009, -24/+129***** THE GOVERNMENT!!!!!!1
- inactive, on 04/05/2009, -12/+104it's a shame that there wont be a response from the american public till something bad actually happens
- pleasedontbanme, on 04/05/2009, -8/+85And you can bet your ass that the actual US financial commitments far, far, FAR exceed that.
- alanocu, on 04/05/2009, -30/+95In the meantime while we're ***** the bailouts, and Obama is dry-humping AIG, or the Saudi King, don't put a down payment on a 5 bedroom penthouse if you can only afford a one-bedroom apartment. If Obama's brother can manage to live in rundown shack in the slum, and his aunt can make ends meet living in a dumpster in Boston, we should be able to manage the purchase and financing of essential needs like a wall-sized flat-panel television or brand new iMac.
***** the bailouts, but screw us for spending our money like a drunk Kennedy. - edstate, on 04/05/2009, -7/+67The best regulation ever invented is failure.
So, yes. They should've simply gone bust. It would've been much better, and much much much cheaper. - edstate, on 04/05/2009, -1/+51Yeah, hundreds of trillions of nickels and dimes....
- inactive, on 04/05/2009, -16/+62obama is robbing us. he's no different than bush.
- bishop, on 04/05/2009, -7/+47An economy goes through expansions and contractions.
Trying to stop a recession only makes the next one more painful.
If the figures are already revised for the bailout, I shudder to think about the $3.6 TRILLION budget and how much money it will end up costing us. - inactive, on 04/05/2009, -13/+51Obama forced many solvent banks to accept TARP money, and refuses to accept repayment.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123879833094588163 ... - edstate, on 04/05/2009, -6/+33No. The people who get cradle-to-grave Big Brothering and Big Nannying are fast becoming the majority. And then they'll be no turning back.
- homercles337, on 04/05/2009, -7/+30The Bankster oligarchy MUST be broken up. This is just ***** silly. Those banksters have way too much power.
- BullBearMS, on 04/06/2009, -2/+24When it comes to financial shenanigans, William K. Black, the former senior regulator who cracked down on banks during the savings and loan crisis of the 1980s, has seen pretty much everything.
Now an Associate Professor of Economics and Law at the University of Missouri, William K. Black tells Bill Moyers on the JOURNAL that the tool at the very center of mortgage collapse, creating triple-A rated bonds out of "liars' loans" — loans issued without verifying income, assets or employment — was a fraud, and the banks knew it.
BILL MOYERS: Why are they firing the president of G.M. and not firing the head of all these banks that are involved?
WILLIAM K. BLACK: There are two reasons. One, they're much closer to the bankers. These are people from the banking industry. And they have a lot more sympathy. In fact, they're outright hostile to autoworkers, as you can see. They want to bash all of their contracts. But when they get to banking, they say, 'contracts, sacred.' But the other element of your question is we don't want to change the bankers, because if we do, if we put honest people in, who didn't cause the problem, their first job would be to find the scope of the problem. And that would destroy the cover up.
BILL MOYERS: The cover up?
WILLIAM K. BLACK: Sure. The cover up.
BILL MOYERS: That's a serious charge.
WILLIAM K. BLACK: Of course.
BILL MOYERS: Who's covering up?
WILLIAM K. BLACK: Geithner is charging, is covering up. Just like Paulson did before him. Geithner is publicly saying that it's going to take $2 trillion — a trillion is a thousand billion — $2 trillion taxpayer dollars to deal with this problem. But they're allowing all the banks to report that they're not only solvent, but fully capitalized. Both statements can't be true. It can't be that they need $2 trillion, because they have masses losses, and that they're fine.
These are all people who have failed. Paulson failed, Geithner failed. They were all promoted because they failed, not because...
BILL MOYERS: What do you mean?
WILLIAM K. BLACK: Well, Geithner has, was one of our nation's top regulators, during the entire subprime scandal, that I just described. He took absolutely no effective action. He gave no warning. He did nothing in response to the FBI warning that there was an epidemic of fraud. All this pig in the poke stuff happened under him. So, in his phrase about legacy assets. Well he's a failed legacy regulator.
WILLIAM K. BLACK: Until you get the facts, it's harder to blow all this up. And, of course, the entire strategy is to keep people from getting the facts.
BILL MOYERS: What facts?
WILLIAM K. BLACK: The facts about how bad the condition of the banks is. So, as long as I keep the old CEO who caused the problems, is he going to go vigorously around finding the problems? Finding the frauds?
BILL MOYERS: You--
WILLIAM K. BLACK: Taking away people's bonuses?
BILL MOYERS: To hear you say this is unusual because you supported Barack Obama, during the campaign. But you're seeming disillusioned now.
WILLIAM K. BLACK: Well, certainly in the financial sphere, I am. I think, first, the policies are substantively bad. Second, I think they completely lack integrity. Third, they violate the rule of law. This is being done just like Secretary Paulson did it. In violation of the law. We adopted a law after the Savings and Loan crisis, called the Prompt Corrective Action Law. And it requires them to close these institutions. And they're refusing to obey the law.
BILL MOYERS: In other words, they could have closed these banks without nationalizing them?
WILLIAM K. BLACK: Well, you do a receivership. No one -- Ronald Reagan did receiverships. Nobody called it nationalization.
BILL MOYERS: And that's a law?
WILLIAM K. BLACK: That's the law.
BILL MOYERS: So, Paulson could have done this? Geithner could do this?
WILLIAM K. BLACK: Not could. Was mandated--
BILL MOYERS: By the law.
WILLIAM K. BLACK: By the law.
BILL MOYERS: This law, you're talking about.
WILLIAM K. BLACK: Yes.
BILL MOYERS: What the reason they give for not doing it?
WILLIAM K. BLACK: They ignore it. And nobody calls them on it.
Watch this segment free at PBS Online or read the Transcript:
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/04032009/watch.h ... - NorthMass, on 04/06/2009, -4/+24The bailouts were awful, voting yes to TARP shows a Congressman is either corrupt, or not knowledgeable enough about economics and liberty to be a Congressman.
Yes, that means Obama is either corrupt, or has no general knowledge of economics or liberty. I know it stinks, but pretending Obama is Dennis Kucinich(anti TARP, anti war, anti NAFTA, anti WTO, anti Patriot Act, anti FISA, pro marijuana) doesn't do anyone any good.
Let's be honest here, most people on Digg supported Obama because they viewed him as anti war, as a guy who would protect jobs(possibly repeal/reconstruct NAFTA,) they thought he would repeal or modify the Patriot Act and FISA, and they thought he would eventually decriminalize or legalize marijuana. He will do none of these things. - tymez, on 04/06/2009, -1/+21ITS TIME TO REVOLT..............WHO'S WITH ME????
- zaptoman, on 04/05/2009, -11/+29Every single congress person and senator should be voted out and replaced. They are not doing their jobs, and its the average American suffering for it.
- edstate, on 04/05/2009, -6/+23Dude, get your head out of your partisan ass... they BOTH ***** everything up. Comon. DontbeDouche.
- offrdbandit, on 04/05/2009, -0/+17"Just that regulation by failure would create an ultra volatile system with huge ups and downs."
Without failures, markets cannot correct themselves properly. It's like reaching the top of a hill, and instead of walking down, trying to build a cantilever bridge to the next peak (which you cant see). Either you let things run their natural course and you take the town turn in stride or you keep duct-taping and propping up an unstable state and hope you reach the other side before everything falls apart.
Can markets perfectly regulate themselves? Of course not. There will always be criminal minded individuals who need to be restrained, but not allowing enviable institutions to fail only perpetuates the instability.
"Not very desirable when your retirement is depending on it..."
Profit from investment is the result of assuming risk. If you are near retirement, you should lower your risk. If you lose your retirement funds close to retirement age, you've mismanaged your investments and it's no one's fault but your own.
"When the old people rob your ***** house you can cry to the cops."
As said above, "old people" shouldn't have had their money in the stock market. They should have had their money in very low risk investments (CDs and the like). Foolish investments breed negative results. - JasonCox, on 04/05/2009, -7/+23AND THE RIAA!
- Networktwenty3, on 04/06/2009, -1/+17I really am wondering how much more people will take before we hit the streets.
- Protonz, on 04/05/2009, -2/+18Just you wait for the inflation tax to kick in. Makes me wonder why they even bother with the other taxes.
- swrostmore, on 04/05/2009, -2/+18US law mandates insolvent banks be placed in receivership. Prompt Corrective Action Law 12 U.S.C. 1831
- Toshibi, on 04/05/2009, -2/+17But our kids, and our kid's kids, will be paying for this for a long time.
- tymez, on 04/06/2009, -13/+28ITS TIME FOR A REVOLUTION!!!!
WHO'S WITH ME??? - smdyson, on 04/05/2009, -3/+17The Federal Reserve is the reason behind this economic downturn. Bush and Obama are puppets and the Fed is pulling the strings.
- BullBearMS, on 04/06/2009, -1/+15Robert Johnson was once the Chief Economist of the Senate Banking Committee under the chairmanship of that fiercest of budget pit-bulls, the late Wisconsin Senator William Proxmire. Johnson became a Managing Director at [Billionaire Democrat George] Soros Fund Management, and now serves on a United Nations Commission recommending reforms of the international monetary and financial system.
BILL MOYERS: Given what we know is happening around the world, are you scared?
ROBERT JOHNSON: Yes I am.
BILL MOYERS: What scares you the most?
ROBERT JOHNSON: That everybody will stand and watch and cater to past patterns of power. The banking system has been the dominant sector in our society and in our politics, which is heavily money driven, for a very long time. As they falter, we could stagnate, catering to their needs disproportionately while the system sinks.
BILL MOYERS: This week, a term came into play that I hadn't heard before. People refer to Citibank, Citigroup, as zombie banks. What's a zombie bank?
ROBERT JOHNSON: A zombie bank is a bank that's insolvent that's allowed to continue its activity. It's allowed to go on living as a dead financial entity.
BILL MOYERS: And what's the threat to the financial system of a zombie bank?
ROBERT JOHNSON: That the zombie will continue to lose more, and the taxpayer, kind of off the government's budget, will continue to experience larger and larger burden of future losses.
BILL MOYERS: So are these negotiations going on this week between Treasury and Citigroup crucial to this process?
ROBERT JOHNSON: I think they're crucial to the process. I also think, if you're going to allow them to act as zombies, then the regulators need to be really fierce. To curtail the activities within the bank while it's motoring along, hoping for a rebound.
BILL MOYERS: This is what puzzles me. I mean, Citigroup executives who got that bank into this ditch, seem to have as much authority in dealing with the government, the Treasury, as the Treasury has in dealing with them. Does that seem right to you?
ROBERT JOHNSON: It doesn't seem right, but it does seem real. When one looks at websites, like OpenSecrets.org, and looks at the scale of campaign contributions that come from Wall Street, one understands why Wall Street, how do I say -- when they talk, people listen.
BILL MOYERS: How do we stop the bleeding?
ROBERT JOHNSON: People talk of nationalization. I just call it restructuring. Restructuring is a part of capitalism. That's how the airlines get restructured when they go through bankruptcy. How you might have to deal with the auto industry, how you deal with venture capital projects. Do the same thing with the banks.
BILL MOYERS: The economist Dean Baker agrees with you. He says there's a growing consensus among economists like you, that this would be the fairest and most efficient thing to do. Put the banks through the same sort of receivership process that the FDIC, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, uses all the time. Is this, however, nationalization in disguise?
ROBERT JOHNSON: Well, I think the notion of nationalization has been a little bit of a PR spin. Restructuring is what you do as capitalist economies to maintain function and continuity. Nationalization invokes the specter of the state seizing the means of production, like Che Guevara is about to take over or something.
Watch this segment free at PBS Online, or read the Transcript:
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/02272009/watch.h ... - jetboyterp, on 04/05/2009, -4/+18More specifically, the three RINO Republican Senators (No Repub. in the House voted for it...and NO ONE read the damn bill) and the Democrats should be given their walking papers.
Starting with Barney Frank and Chris Dodd. - BullBearMS, on 04/06/2009, -1/+15Here is Simon Johnson who was the chief economist for the International Monetary Fund and an Obama supporter.
BILL MOYERS: Are you saying that the banking industry trumps the president, the Congress and the American government when it comes to this issue so crucial to the survival of American democracy?
SIMON JOHNSON: I don't know. I hope they don't trump it. But the signs that I see this week, the body language, the words, the op-eds, the testimony, the way they're treated by certain Congressional committees, it makes me feel very worried.
BILL MOYERS: Geithner has hired as his chief-of-staff, the lobbyist from Goldman Sachs. The new deputy secretary of state was, until last year, a CEO of Citigroup. Another CFO from Citigroup is now assistant to the president, and deputy national security advisor for International Economic Affairs. And one of his deputies also came from Citigroup. One new member of the president's Economic Recovery Advisory Board comes from UBS, which is being investigated for helping rich clients evade taxes.
BILL MOYERS: Last year, the securities and investment industry made $146 million in campaign contributions. Commercial banks, another $34 million. I mean, American taxpayers don't have a flea's chance on a dog like that, do they?
SIMON JOHNSON: It a massive problem, obviously. And I do think, though, the good news there are people in the White House - I think the president himself, is aware of this broader issue. And, obviously, the campaign, the Obama campaign was very good at getting small contributions, and trying to minimize the impact of major donors like that.
But, at the same time, these people are throughout the system of government. They are very much at the forefront of the Treasury. The Treasury is apparently calling the shots on their economic policies. This is a decisive moment. Either you break the power or we're stuck for a long time with this arrangement.
BILL MOYERS: Are we chumps?
SIMON JOHNSON: We'll find out. Yes, we may be. Okay. It depends on how we play this politically. It depends on what our political system does. It depends, I think, on the level of reaction. The financial system is playing us for chumps, okay? The bankers think we're chumps. We'll find out. We have leadership that can handle this. We'll find out what they do.
Watch this segment free at PBS Online or read the Transcript:
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/02132009/watch.h ... - swrostmore, on 04/05/2009, -17/+30April 11 nationwide, get out on the streets to protest the bailouts
nobody cares if you bitch about it on the internet, vote with your feet
annewwayforward.org - zendin, on 04/05/2009, -8/+21The whole NINJA (No Income, No Job, No Assets) mortgage debacle was bad, but most of the losses claimed by the banks and insurance companies now (especially AIG) are paper losses on naked credit default swaps that went bad. But they are "paper" losses - and the parties to whom the money is owed include, guess who....AIG, Bank of America, Citi, Lehman, etc. Basically they all owe each other these huge amounts on paper, and they're taking us to the cleaners so they can avoid absorbing any losses on these very risky derivative trades, which were not even based on any real property, but chance.
That's the real crime here. They should basically just forgive each other that debt and go on about their business, but why do that when you've got the Fed in your pocket?
And to those asking about the danger of the alternative (doing nothing) when have you ever seen a government agency do anything effectively, efficiently and with any sort of fiscal responsibility? Do you honestly believe the government throwing our money at a problem this corrupt is going to do anything meaningful at the end of the day?
I, for one, will do something, though. I at least plan to attend my local Tax Day Tea Party on April 15th. Not enough, but it's a start. - thedeadwalrus, on 04/05/2009, -7/+20Sketchier stuff is happening - Obama is using shell entites as middlemen (like Enron) to avoid the rules Congress has imposed for the bailouts. Geithner has specifically said that they need to avoid the bailout rules so they can pay out bonuses. ... if you want to read more check this link and digg it - it needs to go to the front page - it should be bigger than the AIG bonus scandal:
http://digg.com/business_finance/Obama_Using_Middl ... - nseb, on 04/06/2009, -6/+18Ron Paul
- deema1, on 04/06/2009, -0/+12What's worse is that the government isn't letting the healthy smaller banks repay TARP funds. This is such a horrible bait-and-switch so they could steal a piece of their business from them.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123879833094588163 ... - jetboyterp, on 04/05/2009, -12/+24While it' all fine and well to protest these ridiculous bailouts and unprecedented government involvement in private industry, enough people voted these people in office that perpetrated this monstrosity of a porkulus package. You got what you voted for...don't act so surprised.
And don't blink an eye when your taxes go through the roof of that house you can't afford anymore. - erhanaltay, on 04/05/2009, -2/+14They're printing trillions of dollars and they still have the gall to tax us.. disgusting.
- iie.wakarimasen, on 04/05/2009, -2/+13agreed, but i think you mean anewwayforward.org
- inactive, on 04/05/2009, -2/+12So the fact that each American owes $134,000 in GDP and tax debt liabilities is not a problem?
Most Europeans owe $4000
Most Australians owe $6000
The debt for both AU and EU is personal debts spread across the population with governments running at a surplus so hence, no debt.
The American number is both government and personal debts with government debt equaling 128k.
Your grandchildren will be paying this off.. - tymez, on 04/06/2009, -0/+10Revolution is never something that we want to do. But it is necessary. We cannot take another 8 years of this. This guy is no different then Bush or Clinton or any other before him. The only difference is he has raped the country within the first 100 days. What it took Bush 8 years to do, this jackass has done it in less then 100 days.
REVOLT I TELL YOU REVOLT!!!!! - swrostmore, on 04/05/2009, -0/+10(3) Conservatorship, receivership, or other action required
(A) In general
The appropriate Federal banking agency SHALL, not later than 90 days after an insured depository institution becomes critically undercapitalized—
(i) appoint a receiver (or, with the concurrence of the Corporation, a conservator) for the institution; or
(ii) take such other action as the agency determines, with the concurrence of the Corporation, would better achieve the purpose of this section, after documenting why the action would better achieve that purpose. - DimensionalPunk, on 04/05/2009, -19/+29I'm glad to see Digg's panel of economic experts are working hard on this. I wish Obama had access to the brilliant minds commenting in this thread.
- theOster, on 04/05/2009, -2/+12the only thing that will open the eyes of those responsible is violence. sad to say, but they are otherwise blind to the "average american"
- jeffiek, on 04/06/2009, -0/+9It would also help to learn WHY the economy goes through those expansions and contractions.
Hayek won a Nobel Prize demonstrating that the basic cause is central banking.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Hayek
is a good start. - swrostmore, on 04/05/2009, -2/+11http://www.anewwayforward.org
http://digg.com/business_finance/If_it_s_too_big_t ...
Yes, that is what I mean. - Lennox24, on 04/05/2009, -2/+11Drunk Kennedy? Isn't that a little redundant?
- jcaffoe, on 04/05/2009, -9/+18And what's the alternative? The bailouts are preventing a chain reaction of bankruptcy. The largest companies in America also happen to have the most investments spread through the country and around the world. If that money disappears, so do all the smaller businesses, along with the jobs they provide.
- jeffiek, on 04/06/2009, -0/+9Well, I think Ron Paul has been giving it a good try, even with the 434-1 odds against him. But if losing him is what it takes to get rid of the other 434, well, so be it. I'm sure he would understand.
My only question is - What are you going to replace them with?
It would do no good simply to have new names pulling the same old crap. - NorthMass, on 04/06/2009, -1/+10"You do realize that using the word rino marks you as the worst of the repugnants?
You and your kind are the actual cause of all this countries problems. "
Grow up and stop calling anyone who isn't an Obama supporters a "repugnant." Many liberals can't stand Obama because he refuses to end the wars overseas, get rid of the Patriot Act, and legalize marijuana. Are you going to call them "repugnants" also? - deity, on 04/05/2009, -1/+10Yes, they did if you smoke, invest, or use electricity or gas.
- TheOther1, on 04/06/2009, -3/+12I voted for him.
- michaelpinto, on 04/05/2009, -38/+47Would you have preferred a run on the banks and a total collapse of the stock market? I watched the value of my IRA shrink by about 50% in a few weeks — I've got a few years to recover, but if you're a boomer set to retire or someone who is retired you're screwed big time. Yes I'm pissed at Wall Street, but I don't see a real alternative and I'll gladly take a recession over a depression any day of the week.
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