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Doing what Detroit says is impossible; 5,000lb vehicle gets 60mpg 0-60 5sec

dailykos.com — Doing what Detroit says is impossible; 5,000lb vehicle gets 60mpg 0-60 5sec

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  • FriskDown, on 11/01/2007, -5/+44If this is true, then I would like to see how Goodwin pulls it off.
    • zart, on 11/01/2007, -7/+19They tell you in TFA.

      "If this is true"... WHA? You would doubt the journalistic integrity of MTV?! Kurt Loder would be appalled.
      • jcaino, on 11/01/2007, -11/+6nazi bastard.
      • cawpin, on 11/01/2007, -6/+5Not a chance this is true. This is supposed to be a standard GM diesel engine. I know it doesn't take much, if anything, to run one on biodiesel but it does to run on straight oil.

        “He drove it over to a local restaurant and mooched some discarded oil from its deep fryer, strained the oil through a pair of jeans, and poured it into the engine. It ran perfectly.”
        • davidjay247, on 11/01/2007, -0/+2It's not true. He just has some "ideas" for how to build it, but it doesn't actually exist. And why the hell are people getting all excited over the fact that he's souping these things up? It's not the vegetable oil that's responsible. He's basically hoping to put in an extra engine and "super capacitive" batteries, though the kind of battery he's describing doesn't exist. It's the same reason why regenerative braking doesn't work. It's practically impossible (as of now) to fully charge an entire battery or a massive capacitor in the span of a few seconds, whether it be by braking or "jet" turbine. There's nothing to back-up his claims that he can build this thing. Buried as innacurate.
      • djphatjive, on 11/01/2007, -0/+2Yea but will it last 100,000 miles, or 10 years? isnt that why most of these car companies have these engines. So they will run a long time.
    • jsd8cc, on 11/01/2007, -13/+28Would everyone please just link to the goddamn source when you submit please?
      http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/120/motorhead- ...
      • cmwotring, on 11/01/2007, -2/+10That one works wonderfully. Nice one.
      • Firehed, on 10/31/2007, -3/+2How do people always manage to do that?
        • troye, on 10/31/2007, -1/+3magic
        • opiniastrous, on 11/01/2007, -0/+3I've had the same problem a few times. Basically, you paste the link in, and it appears normal, but if you click on the link it won't work. When you reopen the comment you see what you see above - half a link with an ellipsis after the cut-off. I can only solve it by re-pasting the link 2 or 3 times!

          I'm pretty sure it's Digg's problem, and not my browser's (though just for others to check - I use Safari.). I also get some messed up comments pages some time. For example, comments are sometimes in reverse chronological order (I can occasionally fix this by refreshing), and comments with 'reply' buttons when you can't reply (similarly, sometimes when I reply the 'reply' link disappears.

          Oh yeah, and when I first submit a comment, the gaps between the paragraphs are massive (until I open and resubmit the comment). Digg! Fix the Goddamn comments system!
      • wicketr, on 11/01/2007, -10/+3Sorry, but that is too long. I'm an average internet reader and if it's not something i can read in less than 2 minutes, then I'm moving on. I'm not sure what "dailykos" is, but I prefer the way they summarized it.
        • jsd8cc, on 11/01/2007, -0/+9Yeah, you're right, I'd rather have someone else form my opinions for me. It's much easier than thinking.
        • bobcatred, on 11/01/2007, -0/+2Wow, Lazy. Reading won't kill you.
          I'd rather read a full article from a reputable source than have some stupid blog cut and paste chunks of it for me.
        • wicketr, on 11/01/2007, -0/+1 jsd8cc,
          I'm not sure I understand. Did the person at fastcompany.com not form an opinion when he originally wrote the article? Or are you taking that article as 100% factual truth with no opinion inserted at all?
    • jsd8cc, on 11/01/2007, -2/+23...and again:
      http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/120/motorhead- ...
    • mikesbaker, on 11/01/2007, -6/+17and this my friends is why i hate the daily kos
      http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/120/motorhead- ...
      http://digg.com/motorsport/MotorHead_Messiah_GM_Sa ...
      • monsterofNone, on 11/01/2007, -2/+9because they're a site, like digg, that allows user submitted content?
    • TheTaoOfBill, on 11/01/2007, -13/+22The only reason Detroit thinks it's impossible is because of the out of control healthcare costs. Between the drug companies charging an arm and a leg and the unions unwilling to take healthcare cuts for the sake of our economy Detroit auto makers are having a nearly impossible time trying to build any new designs.
      • BOFH2, on 11/01/2007, -8/+14I am not for unions for the most part but, What? Automakers don't design cars that get great gas mileage with any guts because we the consuemrs have not made enough noise about it.
        • Double0Doug, on 11/01/2007, -3/+14The fact that I can get a foreign car for less than a comparable domestic car is a pretty loud noise if you ask me.
          Be it gas mileage, comfort, speed… whatever. When I bought my last car (four years ago), it just cost less for a foreign car verses a traditional Detroit build car with comparable features.
        • TheTaoOfBill, on 11/01/2007, -4/+18People have been showing noise with their wallets by buying cheaper foreign cars like Toyota and Honda with better gas mileage and a larger reliability factor. Ford and GM know that's what they need to do but they don't have the resources to do it because they are getting sucked dry by drug companies and unions.
      • MaximumPig, on 11/01/2007, -8/+10nice spin. what have you sacrificed for the sake of "our economy"?
        • TheTaoOfBill, on 11/01/2007, -3/+6I'm 21. There isn't much I can do for the sake of our economy except vote with my feet and get the ***** out to find better jobs..
          • norman619, on 10/31/2007, -2/+2You are inheriting loads of debt. Must feel great!
          • norman619, on 10/31/2007, -3/+1You are inheriting loads of debt. Must feel great!
          • TheTaoOfBill, on 11/01/2007, -8/+2That's why I support Ron Paul ;)
        • stoppedcode12, on 11/01/2007, -2/+1You can start by getting a mortgage. It'd create more wealth in the economy.
      • norman619, on 11/01/2007, -0/+7Diesel engines were first designed to run on peanut oil if I remember right. This not a case of new tech. It's more of a case of rediscovering old tech.
    • Spuy767, on 11/01/2007, -0/+13I tried to find it on the Page, but I did not see a citation for this article everywhere. Basically this blogger has shameless copied several passages of an article in a magazine that I read a couple fo weeks ago. The entire article is much more enlightening.
      Original Artice: http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/120/motorhead- ...
      Original Digg Posting: http://www.digg.com/offbeat_news/Super_Hybrid_Humm ...
      • i208khonsu, on 11/01/2007, -0/+1It may have changed since you read it; however the first words of the article "This article" link to the cited source. Never-the-less somebody needs to beat this blog with the spam stick.
    • cbuddha42, on 11/01/2007, -3/+4It true to an extent, but not the one they make it out to be. If you watch the video it is obvious the lambo driver isn't as good or is sandbagging. Plus, he says it is whisper quite! What the hell kinda muscle car is whisper quite?! Talk about killing the feel of the car.
    • davidrools, on 11/02/2007, -5/+10It's not true, here's why:
      -First of all, he's not running on gasoline, so any kind of "mpg" figure is calculated by some other means. Is it a gallon of grease or hydrogen or the dollar equivalent?
      -Turbine engines are much LESS efficient than combustion engines. But they are much simpler and lighter, which is why they're used on aircraft. There was a car built in the 80's or so that ran on a turbine engine. It's perfectly feasible but just not that practical (and it's ridiculously loud).
      -To get 60mpg would require more than three times the thermodynamic efficiency of the standard engine which is probably around 40%. That would mean he would need more than 120% efficiency-physically impossible.
      -Running on vegetable oil works but cannot work for the masses. If detroit released a veg-oil powered car, veg-oil would cost $100/gallon given its short supply relative to gasoline. Biofuels are hard to find and still not cheap even with the gov. subsidies. Hydrogen is also hard to obtain and even harder to store in useable quantities.
      -Bottom line is that this guy can build a working prototype but it's not nearly as efficient as he claims and is completely unfeasible as a production vehicle.

      "Conservatively," Goodwin muses, scratching his chin, "it'll get 60 miles to the gallon. With 2,000 foot-pounds of torque. You'll be able to smoke the tires. And it's going to be superefficient."
      • khalorei, on 11/01/2007, -0/+2Excellent points. It's amazing how many people jump on the biofuel bandwagon when it swings around again every 2-3 years. People don't realize the difficulties of traversing the prototype -> production barrier.
      • SirGunslinger, on 11/01/2007, -1/+6- It isn't the fact that it is biodiesel that is so great... it is the fact that he implemented a diesel engine in a hummer in the first place. (running it on oil is a side benifit)
        - Why is there a different "mpg" scale for diesel and gasoline?
        - I do not think that you are calculating thermodynamic efficency properly
        - Bio-Diesel is a great concept for recycling industrial cooking oil since it is a bio-hazard and difficult to dispose of otherwise.
        - Plain Diesel is easy enough to make instead of gasoline (and safer to)
      • djphatjive, on 10/31/2007, -0/+1And the fact that Milk and eggs and Meat are going to go through the roof in price. All things that require corn that all these companies are going to be buying up.
      • rebelcommander, on 11/01/2007, -0/+1Turbine engines are INCREDIBLY efficient when generating power. The problem is there is very little difference in fuel consumption between an idling turbine and a turbine running at full throttle. So it drinks gas all the time, BUT if it is generating power the entire time it is on, it's VERY efficient. Since this design only has it turning on from time to time and only to charge the capacitors, it should work quite well!
    • zspeed78, on 11/01/2007, -0/+2I know people in Las Vegas that worked with the guy a few years ago. From everything I heard about the guy, I would not be holding my breath on any of this being true. Goodwin's recent attention has been laughable to many Las Vegas hummer owners as theyve seen first hand what kind of hackjob work this guy has done in the past.
  • eflesher, on 11/01/2007, -6/+34I so need him to hook up my truck! This is freaking awesome; I hope people start paying attention.
  • brisbin33, on 11/01/2007, -8/+19blocked at work, unbiased summary anyone? im intrigued
    • AxeSwinger, on 11/01/2007, -4/+60Doing what Detroit says is impossible
      by kos
      Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 11:50:06 AM PDT

      This story is so incredible, I had to do additional research to confirm that it was indeed true. It centers on Kansas City auto mechanic and inventor Johnathan Goodwin.

      Two years ago, Goodwin got a rare chance to show off his tricks to some of the car industry's most prominent engineers. He tells me the story: He was driving a converted H2 to the SEMA show, the nation's biggest annual specialty automotive confab, and stopped en route at a Denver hotel. When he woke up in the morning, there were 20 people standing around his Hummer. Did I run over somebody? he wondered. As it turned out, they were engineers for GM, the Hummer's manufacturer. They noticed that Goodwin's H2 looked modified. "Does it have a diesel engine in it?"

      "Yeah," he said.

      "No way," they replied.

      He opened the hood, "and they're just all in and out and around the valves and checking it out," he says. They asked to hear it run, sending a stab of fear through Goodwin. He'd filled it up with grease from a Chinese restaurant the day before and was worried that the cold morning might have solidified the fuel. But it started up on the first try and ran so quietly that at first they didn't believe it was really on. "When you start a diesel engine up on vegetable oil," Goodwin says, "you turn the key, and you hear nothing. Because of the lubricating power of the oil, it's just so smooth. Whisper quiet. And they're like, 'Is it running? Yeah, you can hear the fan going.'"

      One engineer turned and said, "GM said this wouldn't work."

      "Well," Goodwin replied, "here it is."

      And what's the bottom line for Goodwin's modified vehicles? Stuff like this:

      Goodwin's feats of engineering have become gradually more visible over the past year. Last summer, Imperium Renewables contacted MTV's show Pimp My Ride about creating an Earth Day special in which Goodwin would convert a muscle car to run on biodiesel. The show chose a '65 Chevy Impala, and when the conversion was done, he'd doubled its mileage to 25 mpg and increased its pull from 250 to 800 horsepower. As a stunt, MTV drag-raced the Impala against a Lamborghini on California's Pomona Raceway. "The Impala blew the Lamborghini away," says Kevin Kluemper, the lead calibration engineer for GM's Allison transmission unit, who'd flown down to help with the conversion.

      Remember -- Detroit tells us it's impossible to increase gas mileage without taking a hit on horsepower. Yet here's Goodwin -- with an eight-grade education -- able to design motors that blow the doors off the conventional (and obviously *****) wisdom.

      His latest project?

      Goodwin leads me over to a red 2005 H3 Hummer that's up on jacks, its mechanicals removed. He aims to use the turbine to turn the Hummer into a tricked-out electric hybrid. Like most hybrids, it'll have two engines, including an electric motor. But in this case, the second will be the [jet] turbine, Goodwin's secret ingredient. Whenever the truck's juice runs low, the turbine will roar into action for a few seconds, powering a generator with such gusto that it'll recharge a set of "supercapacitor" batteries in seconds. This means the H3's electric motor will be able to perform awesome feats of acceleration and power over and over again, like a Prius on steroids. What's more, the turbine will burn biodiesel, a renewable fuel with much lower emissions than normal diesel; a hydrogen-injection system will then cut those low emissions in half. And when it's time to fill the tank, he'll be able to just pull up to the back of a diner and dump in its excess french-fry grease--as he does with his many other Hummers. Oh, yeah, he adds, the horsepower will double--from 300 to 600.

      "Conservatively," Goodwin muses, scratching his chin, "it'll get 60 miles to the gallon. With 2,000 foot-pounds of torque. You'll be able to smoke the tires. And it's going to be superefficient."

      He laughs. "Think about it: a 5,000-pound vehicle that gets 60 miles to the gallon and does zero to 60 in five seconds!"

      And here's the punchline:

      Goodwin's work proves that a counterattack is possible, and maybe easier than many of us imagined. If the dream is a big, badass ride that's also clean, well, he's there already. As he points out, his conversions consist almost entirely of taking stock GM parts and snapping them together in clever new ways. "They could do all this stuff if they wanted to," he tells me, slapping on a visor and hunching over an arc welder. "The technology has been there forever. They make 90% of the components I use."

      The problem with Detroit isn't the laws of physics, it's the fact that a guy who never even went to high school can do things -- with stock parts -- that Detroit's auto executives and their armies of engineers claim is impossible. Good ol' American know-how and ingenuity is alive and well, just not where we need it.
    • tmbrwolf19, on 11/01/2007, -0/+13Try http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/120/motorhead- ... it seems to have been taken from there.
    • SummaryBoy, on 11/01/2007, -1/+3Actually, this looks like a job for me...

      Basically, this guy is like a mad scientist, combining random alternative fuels with diesel (and sometimes jet) engines to make a pretty sick machine. Some pretty lofty claims are made and the US lacks the infrastructure to make most of his creations practical. However, I wish he was my uncle.

      SummaryBoy
  • srodolff, on 11/01/2007, -65/+13Cost of a Hummer H3: $40,000
    Cost of tires and brakes after 5,000 miles: $2,500
    The look on people's faces when you smoke the tires: Priceless
    • samzklub, on 11/01/2007, -7/+3i don't understand why people dugg this down. anyone care to explain?
  • evo8ftw, on 11/01/2007, -60/+17um this is on the dailykos therefore automatically discrediting it
    • Coestar, on 11/01/2007, -1/+23Doesn't the fact that this is blogspam discredit your comment? Original article: http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/120/motorhead- ...
      • slashbot, on 11/01/2007, -0/+7That's the first time I've seen blogspam used in a positive light..
    • chrisatwork, on 11/01/2007, -4/+21Yes, shut out those you disagree with. Thats rational thinking!
      • salinemist, on 11/01/2007, -4/+7Oh yeah, a fringe political site is good source for scientific knowledge. That's rational thinking!
        • frazw, on 10/31/2007, -0/+1It isn't rational to ignore information based on source rather than content. It is rational to consider the source though
      • evo8ftw, on 11/01/2007, -9/+4well when they are know to lie and spread propaganda and hate speech. It would be pretty foolish of me not to question what they say. Or should I just be a sheep like you and believe it?
        • Lythium, on 11/01/2007, -2/+2Always a good idea to check the source :)
      • milliamp, on 11/01/2007, -5/+2Upon reading the article and the claims it is making, evo8ftw is actually correct.
        • Desolite, on 10/31/2007, -0/+1doesn't matter what type of engineer you are... without seeing the system you couldn't disprove it if you wanted to.
    • DesuKN, on 11/01/2007, -3/+7Actually typing "um" auto-discredits anything you say afterwards.

      I honestly don't know why people do it.
    • swordedge, on 10/31/2007, -0/+2I actually saw the pimp my car episode were he converts a Chevy Impala.
  • sinizuh, on 11/01/2007, -40/+8In case you didn't know: Doing what Detroit says is impossible; 5,000lb vehicle gets 60mpg 0-60 5sec
    • TheVirus, on 11/01/2007, -26/+3Doing what Detroit says is impossible; 5,000lb vehicle gets 60mpg 0-60 5sec
      • cherwilco, on 11/01/2007, -1/+27what is this? repeat the ***** headline day?
        • extr3mer, on 11/01/2007, -2/+12No, it's the "Doing what Detroit says is impossible; 5,000lb vehicle gets 60mpg 0-60 5sec" day.
        • baron1703, on 11/01/2007, -12/+3Doing what Detroit says is impossible; 5,000lb vehicle gets 60mpg 0-60 5sec? Doing what Detroit says is impossible; 5,000lb vehicle gets 60mpg 0-60 5sec.
  • slashbot, on 11/02/2007, -18/+43I am very skeptical of most stuff coming from the dailyfringe.

    However I do hope that this is true and that we see it mass produced soon.
    • nullity, on 11/01/2007, -1/+18Perhaps you would prefer the original story then: http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/120/motorhead- ...
    • mcduckov, on 11/01/2007, -0/+6I suppose it ought to be possible to calculate the joules released by the complete burning of a gallon of any fuel and then calculate how far that energy could move a Hummer under ideal conditions. That would be your theoretical maximum if the engine could produce 100% efficiency. As long as someone is not claiming MORE than that I'm willing to giver them the benefit of the doubt. This is in contrast to the Steorn clowns who get no benefit of the doubt--just doubt.

      Hey, quick search turned up http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/PSEUDOSC/200MPGCar.HTM the calculations look reasonable and he comes up with a max of 40mpg for a 2,200lb car using internal combustion. However, the theoretical maximum under his real world conditions is 400mpg. So 60mpg for a Hummer is unlikely but probably not impossible (I'm too lazy to run the numbers using 4000lbs rather than 2200.
      • snotrokit, on 11/01/2007, -1/+4for Internal combustion, I think FTA, he is running turbines.
        • mcduckov, on 11/01/2007, -0/+2I'm not going to go read it again but I think the turbines were the next planned upgrade.
      • frazw, on 10/31/2007, -0/+1The fuel source is very important too, an internal combustion engine is only capable of outputting the power contained in the fuel, some fuels will be richer in energy per litre than others and since he is not using standard fuels the rules are a little different
      • pdbailey, on 10/31/2007, -0/+1The theoretical max in infinity miles per gallon on a flat frictionless surface. Add in tire /suspension friction and you get a slightly lower number, but after that it's all about how much energy the engine wastes keeping the wheels going at a steady speed. Most gas cars, this totals about 25 hp (friction + waste). For an electric, this could be much lower, I don't know.
    • diggingaround, on 11/01/2007, -1/+1If it's true you will soon find this genius inventor guy with 2 bullet hoes in his head signed by Chevron and Detroit...
  • rowlodge, on 11/01/2007, -14/+6unless he superheats or overheats and melts down the cylinders it may run for a little while.
    • SwingCorey, on 11/01/2007, -2/+1actually my concern is the supercompressed hydrogen.
      He can get away with tricking out these cars in the middle of rural Kansas, but try making vehicles like this safe to drive in Orlando, where we've got car crashes and accidents all the time, due to being the car rental (i.e., vacation) capital of the world. The last thing you want in a car crash is a Hindenberg-like explosion to *really* stop traffic.

      That said, what he's doing with all the other mods is, quite frankly, awesome. The auto industry has always been lazy and slow (just like any corporate industry) - it's the tinkerers and small companies that get the most done. (Has Dell innovated recently, or has that been more the domain of Alienware and others that became buyout-bait?)
      • Qeveren, on 11/01/2007, -0/+3Hydrogen's relatively harmless. The Hindenburg burned because the dopant they used to stiffen the fabric was effectively thermite. Also, unlike gasoline fumes, hydrogen gas is much lighter than air, meaning even if it's released and ignited, it will rapidly disperse.
  • macsaver, on 11/01/2007, -4/+8If this is true, hook me up.
    • davidlow, on 10/31/2007, -0/+1If everyone in the country had this I don't think there would be enough french fry grease to handle the volume. Even if 1% of cars had this it wouldn't work for the same reason.
    • triskele, on 11/01/2007, -0/+5It's just a diesel truck. Move out of North America. Two Brasilians drove their diesel 1999 Ford Ranger from Tierra del Fuego (sp?) to somewhere up in Northern Alaska and averaged 45 mpg. Someone posted a blog about it a week or so here on Digg. Can't find it though. It's no H2, but it's better than most of what Detroit considers economy and mid-size.
  • Raider007, on 11/06/2007, -13/+234if it's true... this guy is either going to disappear or die somehow in the next year...
    • bingobongony, on 11/01/2007, -21/+11how uncomfortable is the tin foil hat?
      • psiphre, on 11/01/2007, -2/+7they keep your dome warm
        • norman619, on 10/31/2007, -1/+3And protect your follicles from harmful UV.
      • kuragami, on 11/01/2007, -7/+11You do realize that a massive amount of power in the hands of the elite comes directly from oil right?

        They have 3 bases of power and this would remove one. They might relent but I can't see a compelling reason to do so. The fact that it was on MTV does give hope. Considering if you know what MTV is and what it ultimately is used for.

        The 3 bases of power are from most to least powerful:

        Central Banking in every major Western nation completely dominates the country in question since they are the only ones who hold the nation's gold and are the only ones allowed to print money. Without this in place those nations would be largely free.

        Energy Projects with a combination of the World Bank and IMF = International slavery for most nations of the world via massive national debt that they have no money to pay off and therefore offer their oil reserves instead.

        Control of Oil is the source of a lot of the power for the largest families of the elite. It is also used for influence peddling as well a means to enable the second power base to function. Should it no longer be used in the world their individual power base would dry up and blow away.

        They don't seem to have any interest in ending the use of Oil. United States Africa Command (AFRICOM) was newly created to oversee better control of the flow of Oil and other natural resources from Africa and to use as a means of assisting in the Force Projection of the African Union troops.
        • zzzpoohzzz, on 11/01/2007, -3/+4buried for "The fact that it was on MTV does give hope."
          • kuragami, on 11/04/2007, -1/+1You are an idiot. Try and read the next sentence.
      • kaelyiesta, on 11/01/2007, -0/+2More likely they'll just bury any work he does into obscurity like so many other improvements done to fuel efficiency. There is a reason fuel efficiency hasn't improved much since gasoline cars became popular. It's just bad business. You can bet the car companies have been given huge incentives by the producers of gasoline to drag their feet.
    • FloppyLlamaDigg, on 11/01/2007, -8/+3 .
    • LucasKane, on 11/01/2007, -7/+1Or become rich... RICH AS NAZIS
    • FutureGuy, on 11/01/2007, -3/+1and his body will resurface in saudi arabia.
      Ohh I hope not, I wish him all the best.
    • Infowarmachine, on 11/01/2007, -0/+6i hope not, as long as he doesnt try to profit from this he wont be disappeared
      its those who try to market it who are either suddenly being audited by the IRS, suddenly under investigation for money laundering.. or suddenly die
    • ChinkInMyArmor, on 11/01/2007, -1/+7For an idea of the oil industry's power, watch _Who Killed the Electric Car?_
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_the_Electr ...
      • BoneStamp, on 11/01/2007, -0/+1I dunno, I kinda blamed society by the end of the documentary... not GM or the Oil Companies. GM was too little too soon on that idea.
    • l33tone, on 10/31/2007, -0/+2I find it more likely they would just take the "our lawyers are bigger than yours, we sue you into oblivion!" route.
    • utahnkid, on 11/01/2007, -1/+1Yeah but how is everyone going to react to big foot coming out? And the alien anal probes? THATS what we need to be concerned about..
    • zspeed78, on 11/01/2007, -0/+2He has ripped off enough Las Vegas Hummer owners that this may be his fate anyway.
      • BoneStamp, on 11/01/2007, -0/+1What did he do?
      • zspeed78, on 11/01/2007, -0/+1He promised (and charged for) GMC Duramax diesel conversions into hummer H1 and H2s, very few of which ever ran correctly, and some remain unrunning to this day. I have personally SEEN one that isnt running to this day sitting in a warehouse in Vegas. I wont mention the company he worked for/owns this hummer but they are known as a Las Vegas Hummer diesel conversion shop.
  • FeartheKnighted, on 11/01/2007, -29/+6Not possible in a conventional ICE
    • FeartheKnighted, on 11/01/2007, -18/+7Yeah digg me down. How many of you have a degree in mechanical engineering? Thats what I thought. If they provided some numbers, like entrance and exit temperatures, I could prove how it violates the second law of thermo.
      • reedsturtevant, on 11/01/2007, -1/+15RTA it is not an ICE it's an electric + turbine hybrid
        • FeartheKnighted, on 11/01/2007, -12/+2Ah ok then. That is entirely possible. I fail to see what is extraordinary about that, anyone can build a turbine with those kinds of numbers.
        • SteelFrog, on 11/01/2007, -3/+10Then GTFO and go build one.
      • cmwotring, on 10/31/2007, -4/+9Nobody cares what ***** degree you have. People time and again have disproved conventional wisdom with new ideas and inventions.
        • FeartheKnighted, on 11/01/2007, -11/+5Its not "conventional wisdom" you moron, it's called a LAW for a reason. Please graduate from college and then try to argue.
      • Disease, on 11/01/2007, -3/+4You must have a huge e-peen
        • FeartheKnighted, on 11/01/2007, -8/+3You must have a tiny real one.
      • BlackJackJester, on 10/31/2007, -2/+5I don't see how burning biodiesel to create energy violates the laws, on a fundamental level.
        • tamuengineer, on 10/31/2007, -0/+0it is not the burning of biodiesel that violates the laws, it is the efficiency of the transfer of energy that is violating the laws. You can only get out so much from what you put in.
      • Sibre, on 11/01/2007, -2/+10If you had read the article, you would have known that he didn't use an ICE. He took that out and replaced it with a diesel.
        Degree or not, you should learn how to read articles before commenting on them. This guy didn't even graduate high school and has accomplished probably more than many of us who have will ever dream of.
        Using the fact that you have a degree to degrade someone else = childish
        • racekarl, on 11/01/2007, -2/+4Apparently *you* didn't read it either. He's using a multi-fuel turbine (the sort of engine that's found in tanks). Also, a diesel engine IS an ICE, so even if you were right, you're still wrong.
        • tamuengineer, on 10/31/2007, -0/+0If you knew what an ICE was then you could bash racekarl for his comment
    • AxeSwinger, on 11/01/2007, -1/+11Please provide the basis for your comment. Is it due to friction, heat transfer, material science that this would be impossible? Is there an immutable law of physics that would have to be broken?
    • davidrools, on 10/31/2007, -0/+2Assume an H2 can get 20mpg on the freeway, that's very conservative. To get 60mpg with the same vehicle (same drag and weight) you'd need to have three times the thermodynamic efficiency. That is, you'd have to extract three times the energy from the fuel than you normally do (with the rest being lost to heat through the radiator and exhaust, mainly). But all modern engines run around 40% efficiency on the high end, and as low as 20% under acceleration. Still, to achieve 60mpg on the freeway (typically an area of peak engine operating efficiency), this guy's engine would have to be running with a thermodynamic efficiency near 90%...completely impossible. Like Feartheknight said, he'd have to have exhaust temperatures near ambient temperature which is physically impossible.
      Also running on used grease works but cannot be a replacement fuel for the masses, due to obvious supply limitations. Same goes for hydrogen.
      60mpg may be a dollar for dollar equivalent for him, but certainly not a fuel efficiency spec.
      And if you want to argue that he uses a combined turbine and electric drivetrain, don't bother. Turbine engines are under the same thermodynamic laws as any other heat engine.
      • frazw, on 10/31/2007, -0/+2As a chemist I feel compelled to point out the fact that seems to be going largely unaddressed. I'm not saying I agree with what was lets face it a fairly ambitious GUESS by Goodwin but everyone arguing seems to be completely overlooking the difference in fuel.
        First you a lot of the arguments assume the same amount of energy per gallon is going in.
        For two *possible* reasons this is not necessarily so. Biodiesel is not diesel. From what I can tell it's average molecular weight is higher and therefore it has more bonds and that means more energy can theoretically be released per molecule. So if they had the same number of molecules in a gallon, one would theoretically contain more energy.
        Second, you are assuming that the densities are equal, or more like the energy density is equal. So that each fuel has the same amount of energy as the other per gallon. For exampl, if I had a fuel with twice the density of diesel but the same energy per mole, I could get twice the mileage out of the higher density fuel.
        I don't have any figures to argue the point nor do I particularly care about proving or disproving the claim in this specific case but I'm just saying that there are fairly major differences in the fuel which need to be considered before you discount it offhand.
  • compgeek, on 11/01/2007, -12/+5wow that was nuts especially that video I was thinking BS the whole time but that Impala proved it if this were to be done to say a corvette or something it would get crazy stock vettes are at 500hp now with this conversion we could be seeing 1200-1300hp streetable vettes
    • cbuddha42, on 10/31/2007, -0/+4Eh the vette frame would not do well with that much horsepower. Normally when people call something "streetable" they mean, among other things, that it wouldn't drive like ***** into the nearest wall.
  • jefree, on 11/01/2007, -3/+37If this is true than the current state of auto design is really strange. Why can't better designs reach the marketplace?
    • thesandreckoner, on 11/01/2007, -3/+13because corporations know best.
    • skyshock1, on 11/03/2007, -9/+21Automotive labor unions.
      • chrisreynolds, on 11/01/2007, -0/+3I'm not asking to be contrary or anything but how are automotive labor unions restricting the type of cars that come out. If the cars burn biodiesel, hydrogen or anything different don't they still need to produce the car. There must be something I'm not aware of.
    • toastgodsupreme, on 11/01/2007, -2/+22Think how computers would be if the power companies were in bed with parts manufacturers. Do you really think we'd have such low power consumption?

      Same applies to the auto industry. Do you really think they're going to make things more fuel efficient when their bed partner, the oil companies, would throw a ***** fit? Yeah...
      • swanny89, on 11/01/2007, -0/+3See that doesn't make much sense to me. If an auto company were capable of making cars that were lightyears ahead of their competitors I don't care how many kickbacks you get from the oil companies, there's more money to be made selling those great cars. I'd have to go with the scalability issue: sure a guy in a garage can make a car run on veggie oil, but there isn't enough oil for everyone to use it in their cars. Plus a guy in his garage doesn't have to worry about factories, workers, unions, and other overhead that goes into the cost of a vehicle.
        • Qeveren, on 11/01/2007, -0/+3You're assuming that the boards of directors of oil companies and automotive companies are independent of each other. Try playing with http://www.theyrule.net for a while and you'll see what I mean.
    • BlackJackJester, on 11/01/2007, -1/+17Scared of change? Profit margins? gas companies?
    • jsully, on 10/31/2007, -1/+1There are tons of engine designs out there - a lot of them just don't work with the type of mechanical energy a car needs. For some good alternative reading start here:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_combustion_e ...
    • l33tone, on 10/31/2007, -0/+1To simplify: $$$
    • BoneStamp, on 11/01/2007, -0/+1It's easy to say that there is some conspiracy (and there might be), but I think it's more transparent than that. Lets say you could buy this H2 tomorrow, where are you going to get enough bio fuel to fill it? Where are you going to get enough bio fuel when all your neighbors also get theirs form that same local restaurant? It has nothing to do with what can be done, it has everything to do with practicality.
  • rwvalentine, on 11/01/2007, -6/+61then get rich while detroit goes broke
    if i hear one comment about Big Oil covering this up i'll
    type really hard and mad like
    • merreborn, on 11/01/2007, -1/+10type really hard and mad like... what?

      Oh no! Big oil got rwvalentine!
    • Langolas, on 11/01/2007, -0/+3Detroit is already broke
    • sowhat5828, on 11/01/2007, -0/+8Detroit's not broke, just its citizens. The mayor and his posse spent like 1 million on a christmas party last year
  • tehnico, on 11/01/2007, -7/+16HAHA, and when he sells his concepts to the big 3 to be buried forever? Then what?
    • bingobongony, on 11/01/2007, -4/+2If an oil company owned the concept to this, they would make FAR more money with that patent than the would lose in selling less oil. Of course, that is if this was actually feasible, which it isn't.
    • sowhat5828, on 11/01/2007, -0/+2Yeah. In fact the guy who invented powered windshield wipers in the 50's tried to sell his idea to Ford. He was turned down and then 3 months later they had a patent on it and it was almost exactly the same as his.

      I have a feeling that some auto company is going to have an "engineering breakthrough" very soon.
  • dafragsta, on 11/01/2007, -5/+10I love contradictions to common logic like this. I really hope one of the better ones makes it to market soon. Hopefully this isn't another "perpetual laptop battery."
  • izzybr, on 11/01/2007, -5/+31With an eighth grade education? Unbelievable. I can't remember how many people I knew dropped out of engineering in college because they couldn't handle it.
    Uber-kudos to this guy
    • BlackJackJester, on 11/01/2007, -4/+24Just because he dropped out of school in 8th grade doesn't mean he didn't get knowledge elsewhere. That guy is obviously pretty smart, has a team of really smart people, and has been working with cars for a long time. He may not have gotten his knowledge conventionally through school, but he has it.
      • izzybr, on 11/01/2007, -2/+14Yeah, duh, I realize that, which is why I said 'uber-kudos'. And thanks for pointing out that he got his knowledge somewhere else, Captain Obvious.
        The point I was trying to make is that it is exceedingly rare these days for someone with as little formal education as he has do so much, particularly, when people with much more formal education can't make it in their field of study.
    • Shdwdrgn, on 11/01/2007, -3/+7Not really that unbelievable. Some people have a natural knack for understanding how certain things work. As an example of this, my trebuchet is the largest around, blows away the other teams at the local competition, and I have received a lot of praise for the construction and engineering of it. When the competition safety inspectors asked me where I went to school to learn how to build my machine, I just smiled and told them I'm just a computer geek... The difference is that I can just look at things and 'feel' how they work because I have a knack for that sort of thing. This guy obviously has the same skill with engines, and that is something that no amount of schooling can ever teach.
  • TheZorch, on 11/01/2007, -2/+15There's a company in Los Angeles, CA which modifies cars and SUVs to run off vegetable oil. They've been in operation for a few years.
    • BlackJackJester, on 11/01/2007, -1/+4Yea, theres a guy in I think Santa Barbara that converts old diesel Mercedes into biodiesel.
      • tastypastry, on 10/31/2007, -0/+1You don't convert old diesel vehicles into anything when using biodiesel at least other than changing the hose lines but thats about it. Biodiesel requires no modification to any diesel vehicle. Now using SVO requires engine modification.
  • munen123, on 11/01/2007, -7/+15this is great, I love the fact that he proves detroit has been lying about mpg all along!

    but biodiesel is not really going to solve the energy problem, but better gas mileage is a start...
    • Logicexe, on 11/01/2007, -0/+7Well so far is appears to be much easier to make biodiesel than ethanol, so it has more potential than most other biofuels. It probably isn't scalable but it's better than nothing for now.
  • brstilson, on 11/01/2007, -5/+59First off, he hasn't even built the thing yet, so you don't know if that 60 mpg figure is him just blowing smoke up everyone's rear end. When it IS built, he also isn't taking into the account the second fuel source, hydrogen. I'd love to be able to make a car with two gas tanks and base the mpg off of the fuel usage in one, but that's not how it works.
    • Tuscanspeed, on 11/01/2007, -17/+4Hydrogen replaces the air intake.
      So it's no different than when current companies tell you the mpg of gas, and yet don't say anything about the air intake as a second fuel.

      Read the article. Comprehend the article. Research the article.
      • mredamon, on 11/01/2007, -0/+17It's no different, other than the fact you will have to replace the hydrogen when it runs out... Wait a minute, that means it's very different. Begone, fuzzy logic, and the Tuscanspeed you rode in on.
        • davewashere, on 11/02/2007, -0/+11Stop making sense, get down on your knees, and start pleasing this loose-with-the-facts jr. high dropout engineer.
        • Tuscanspeed, on 10/31/2007, -3/+0See my comment below. To paraphrase, just because you have to store it in a tank and pay for it, doesn't mean it doesn't occupy the same position in the combustion process.
      • bingobongony, on 11/01/2007, -1/+6Yeah, Tuscan..and how much do you pay for the air your car needs now? And now much do you think you'll pay for the hydrogen?
        • Tuscanspeed, on 11/01/2007, -6/+0What you'll pay for it is kinda irrelevent to the fact that the hydrogen occupies the same spot as the air.

          Air is mixed with gasoline in the process. In this case, biofuel is mixed with hydrogen.

          My comment was to the fact the poster said they neglected the "second" fuel source. Air is the "second" fuel source in traditional engines.

          Cost is not part of the discussion. Of course there's a difference there. But you still have 2 chemicals mixing to combust. There is no difference there.
        • backflipper, on 10/31/2007, -0/+1okay, then how much energy does it take to make the air used in the engine? And how much energy will it take to create the hydrogen?
    • blur7910, on 11/01/2007, -1/+2It actually is built. I don't know if you like, didn't read the article? He has built the hummer, he isn't making it up. The hummer gets over 60 MPG, and I know that personally from other sources. once again, this article is completly ripped from a magazine called Fast Company, which is owned by Forbes. Its very reliable.
      • fitzsimj, on 11/01/2007, -0/+1Hi. The figure (60mpg) you quote, is his "scratching his chin" estimate of a vehicle which IS NOT BUILT. Read the article again.
        Search for "Goodwin leads me over to a red 2005 H3 Hummer that's up on jacks," and right after that you'll find "He aims to use the turbine," (i.e. IN THE FUTURE).
        The Impala gets 25mpg and, supposedly, beat a Lamborghini. The first Hummer was simply demoed for the engineers, and no mention was made of its efficiency nor its power.
        • anubis2night, on 05/16/2008, -0/+1Actually dumbass that vehicle is just one of the vehicles he's designed and the current one. He's adding new technology to this one to get an estimate of 60 mph, but if you read this article completely and a few others simply by searching his name you'll learn that he has built quite a few of these, including a 800hp impala that beat a Lamborgini, in the quarter mile. Also the Hummer is completed w/pics found on another site and looks like it's gets around the mileage he figured it would (I haven't finished the article yet) so he is real, his machines work, and the most important part is that 90% of the parts used are made by GM so there's no real excuse for these type of mods to be implemented by automakers.
  • cyanics, on 11/01/2007, -17/+1uhh.. apparently Detroit has never heard of a Mercedes S class. or BMW 7 series. Or bently. or rolls royce. or jaguar.
  • TherealObadiah, on 11/01/2007, -27/+13Burried. DailyKos, like crooksandliars and thinkprogress, are kook sites run by fringe neo-communists.
  • RetlawST, on 11/01/2007, -6/+11It's true...to an extent. Alot of what's mentioned in this article isn't new technology, but implementation and mass production can and will be difficult. Notice how he talks about using a diesel/hyrbrid turbine engine, a very efficient, but expensive engine. We're talking 200k for a car versus 20k.
    • BlackJackJester, on 11/01/2007, -2/+8I think its expensive because it is not mass produced...not the other way around.
      • knowitman, on 11/01/2007, -0/+3I believe that those kinds of capacitors would be very expensive.
      • chrissandvick, on 11/01/2007, -0/+5And that judgment is based on a cost analysis or just pulled out thin air?
        • BlackJackJester, on 11/01/2007, -0/+1thin air, but I can't imagine a turbine is more expensive to create than an ICE by a large factor. Thats why I said "i think". I definitely don't know.
    • murf43143, on 11/01/2007, -0/+6I think you are making those numbers up.
  • TeatimeGrommit, on 11/01/2007, -2/+35Many impressive prototype vehicles have been built. There are issues beyond trick performance to be considered, like will the vehicle last for 100,000 miles and what about other pollutants like NOx, particulates and various sulfur compounds. I personally think electric cars will win out over biodiesel by 2030.
  • LinuxAddict, on 11/01/2007, -2/+35Dugg for "Yet here's Goodwin -- with an eight-grade education -- able" instead of eighth-grade education......
  • floorman56, on 11/01/2007, -2/+5Looks a little ..Odd ... Same story .. Guy with 8Th grade education ....builds super car at home... doesn't really say how except that car is really a "greaser" runs or pure fry oil . but don't see where or how it says he gets 60 mpg or how he did it.
    • univers3man, on 10/31/2007, -0/+1Doesn't wanna give away the secret, now does he?
  • mmtiller, on 11/10/2007, -14/+128Sorry, but this is *****.
    First, the headline is completely misleading because it refers to something the guy in the article claims he can do, not something he has actually done.
    Second, there is no mystery in this at all. It is never a question of what Detroit can do, it is what they can sell. I can tell you first hand (I worked on the Ford Hybrid Escape) that price is the critical factor in anything Detroit produces. They won't add a dime of content to a vehicle unless they can show they make back 11 cents. The other consideration is durability (I suspect he didn't re-engineer his connecting rods and bearings to deal with the extra power and torque which, by the way, would add weight and lower fuel economy). Spit and bailing wire isn't going to fly.

    I'm all for innovation and so are lots of people in the car industry but would you accept a vehicle (like the one in the story) whose fuel freezes on a cold day?! Honestly, it is no mystery. Just because some hobbyist does it (and more power to him, BTW), doesn't mean you could mass produce tomorrow, make a profit on it and have it operate trouble free for 100,000 miles.
    • Boohickey11, on 11/01/2007, -7/+12I think it's time people learn about the GM Chevrolet Volt. http://www.chevrolet.com/electriccar/
      Yeah, Toyota sucks. PERIOD.
      • Logicexe, on 10/31/2007, -0/+5Thanks for posting that. I was unaware that the Volt was almost all electric. I thought it would just switch to hybrid mode when the batteries ran low, now it seems it just runs off electricity generated by a gasoline generator. Cool!
      • budser, on 11/01/2007, -1/+2Yeah, but the Prius isn't imaginary.
    • Nickdotnet, on 11/10/2007, -4/+11Operate trouble free for 100k?....you mean like the hybrid escape you worked on? riiiight...
    • acteg, on 11/01/2007, -5/+0Beefing up internals as part of any engine build is pretty basic knowledge that even the weekend street racer is aware of. If this guy is doing all these amazing things with engines, then I would assume he knows the basics. These internals can be easily upgraded without sacrificing weight and efficiency (although cost is much higher). You would think with your experience in the auto industry you would already know these basic things.
      • fitzsimj, on 11/01/2007, -0/+2Wow, you missed his point on so many levels its astounding.
        Congrats on knowing how to read ads in Hot Rod magazine, by the way, you redneck poser.
      • brad3378, on 11/01/2007, -0/+2cost is a very significant factor in mass production. In other words, don't expect to have a $1000 set of connecting rods and a $2000 forged steel crank in a car that sells for $18,000
    • WarPirate, on 11/01/2007, -1/+2Name one car that's not Japanese(asian) and not a GEO metro that can run trouble free for 100,000 miles. It sure isn't anything Ford, Chevy, or Dodge.
      • fitzsimj, on 11/01/2007, -0/+2Jeep Grand Cherokee, which is Chrysler (Dodge). Oh, and loads and loads of Fords (F-x50, Ranger, Focus).
        • guyincognitoo, on 11/03/2007, -0/+1The Jeep is a Consumer Reports "avoid at all costs" car
      • jweiand, on 11/01/2007, -0/+1My '93 Ford Taurus, been wrecked twice hase 198K+ miles...now, i Have to admit...the Heater core did start leaking this fall :( but other than that and it being ugly as hell it's never had anything else replaced...well, other than tired, brake pads oil etc :) There are a LOT of american made cars that are quite reliable...most cars in general are actually. ISO standards pretty much guarantee that really, it's the one off's that get through every few years or so that give any company a bad name really. In my opinion that is...and I don't write for car and driver or anything like that so I'll understand if you don't give a rats butt aboiut it lol :)
    • holyspamcans, on 11/01/2007, -1/+4You are correct about the extra weight of forged internals lowering the fuel mileage, but it really would not lower it that substantially. I know his 60mpg is just an estimate, but even if it is HALF of that, it is an amazing feat. Oh, and an electric heater could easily solve his freezing fuel problem... but that's just my two cents...
    • jweiand, on 11/01/2007, -0/+1Um...I call ***** mr mmtiller....

      Anyone who can honestly say"(I worked on the Ford Hybrid Escape)" would not ask an amazingly ignorant question like "...but would you accept a vehicle (like the one in the story) whose fuel freezes on a cold day?! " Considering any automotive engineer...of hopefully ANY ilk would know that good ol' fashioned, run of the mill, regulare Diesel "freezes" for all intents and purposes...it's why most yanks that run diesel engines either have heated garages or block heaters...quite stupid of you to say it really.

      Now, I don't care if you want to dog an article but don't make up crazy credentials to lend credence to your post...and heaven forbid you really DID have ANYTHING to do with a mass produced car that might possible cary my wife and kids around town I would be terified. Also, if you were/are and engineer for one of the "Big Three" then you're careless post actually lends credence to the lack of common sense and know-how at the "Big Three"...sorry, not meant to be a rant but come on! I don't come here to read "Um, I know more about lightsabers cause, um...I worked on the design of lightsabers when I was serving under Obi-wan on the jedi counsel! yar yar har!"esque BS...
      • 808kick, on 11/01/2007, -0/+1Aren't block heaters standard on every car?
    • mmtiller, on 11/01/2007, -0/+0Just a follow-up. I agree, I think the Volt will be cool. I'm not sure what it was about my comment that triggered so many ad hominem responses. If people want to insult me or my work they are free to do that but I want to reiterate that my points were about the importance of cost and durability for a mass produced vehicle. As for Diesel freezing, this is also mitigated by winter fuel blends as well. Whether people actually let the fuel "freeze" was not really my point, it is a question of convenience. Will people accept a vehicle that you need to keep in a heated garage or plugged in in order start reliably? We can argue about the answer but my experience is that automotive companies will avoid technologies that require such compromises.

      I want to add one other point. I think there is a perception about American car companies that they "lack common sense and know-how" (in the words of jweiand...Yoda says "Hi" by the way). I would agree that they definitely have had issues with building cars people want and/or will last. No argument from me. But I think the specifics are a bit more complicated. I know lots of very bright and motivated people in American car companies. I don't think that is the issue. As nice as it would be to just write them off as corrupt or incompetent I really don't think either is true. But that doesn't mean that excuses should be made for them either. I agree they need to get their act together. I just think that the difficulties they are facing are more to do with internal politics, corporate culture and lack of strategy.
  • Tuscanspeed, on 11/01/2007, -11/+5Wonder if the comments here will make me laugh as much as the FARK.com comments about this article I was reading....a few hours ago.
    • DrDigg, on 10/31/2007, -1/+9Damn digg you got served...oh wait no one cares that this was on fark
    • Baelorn, on 10/31/2007, -0/+2What's your point? This was submitted way more than "a few hours ago", it just got popular when you read it. Check Upcoming if you want fresh stories.
  • MattB123, on 11/01/2007, -4/+6Very cool. I wonder if Detroit's definition of impossible is like Verizon's definition of impossible. Which really translates to "It might be possible, but we don't think it's in OUR best interest so we won't let you do it without hacking it yourself.".
    I would imagine the auto companies and the petroleum industry are pretty intertwined. Maybe pressure from big oil is holding back innovation that could ween us from oil too quickly?
    • bingobongony, on 10/31/2007, -2/+1I wonder if you actually read the article, since if you have you would have realized how idiotic your comment amkes you look.
      • MattB123, on 10/31/2007, -0/+2I read it. Can you point out what it is that I said that you think makes me look idiotic? I'll even refrain from making fun of your typo.
        From my perspective, it seems the industry is pushing technologies that still rely on traditional gasoline, like hybrids or E85 (which seems to get the majority of it's "energy" from government subsidies). Hybrids are a step in the right direction, but getting away from petroleum-based energy sources all together makes more sense to me. No big automaker is promoting anything like what this guys is doing and I have a hard time believing the armies of engineers working for the auto companies couldn't do the same, so maybe there are other reasons. What is so idiotic about that? I'm not even making claims, but suggesting that there could be other explanations.
  • MASTERPL, on 11/01/2007, -2/+9I know a couple people in Europe that pour vegetable oil in their old Mercedes Diesels, and they run great, and the consumable oil is cheaper.
  • orangester, on 11/01/2007, -1/+9You should see Ford and Roush's new experimental engine...
    http://www.musclemustangfastfords.com/features/mmf ...
  • jasaero, on 11/01/2007, -8/+5All possible, but mostly only in handcrafted one off form that would near impossible to mass produce at the hundreds of thousands to millions of units per year. Even if you could produce vehicles like some of his in good quantities, you would have to sell them for more than people want to pay to turn a profit. Most of his stuff is bio diesel based also and I am sure he couldn't pass California et al's emissions regs even with $$$$millions in refinement to his creations. If you freed up emissions regs on diesels and boidiesels, cars like his COULD exist. The super capacitor battery vehicle mentioned in the end would be the toughest to produce at a reasonable price. Who knows what it will cost in total for him to finish that project?? Sure it is near or over a million though with a turbine engine and super capacitors.
    • blur7910, on 11/01/2007, -0/+1He is actually doing the Governor of California's Jeep, Arnold Schwarzenegger (Spelling is awful I'm sorry) right now. It produces less emissions than any conventional car, read the FULL article in fast company.
  • TheStooge1, on 11/10/2007, -7/+38Sorry, but the cred of this article went out the window with this statement, "When you start a diesel engine up on vegetable oil," Goodwin says, "you turn the key, and you hear nothing. Because of the lubricating power of the oil, it's just so smooth. Whisper quiet."

    Complete and utter crap!
    • brufleth, on 11/01/2007, -0/+3There were definitely a few things like that which made me go, "What? No." Using a small turbine engine to cycle on to power super capacitors doesn't make much sense either. Having the turbine just stay on all the time makes a bit more sense but you're not going to get amazing mileage from even a small turbine in a passenger car. They also don't run on "bio fuels."
      • Ramble, on 11/01/2007, -0/+4Turbines can run on diesel, but as you say it's best to leave them on, turbines are at their highest efficiency when they're at a constant speed, that's why their not used in cars.
    • bowe, on 10/31/2007, -0/+1The turbine doesn't run constantly. It's a series hybrid like the Chevy Volt. From the article it sounds like there is a dual power system of batteries and ultracaps. The Turbine is probably somewhere around 50-60kw(70-80 hp) which is way more than a car uses during normal driving to overcome friction,allowing it to store the excess. Once the stored energy reaches a lower threshold, the turbine kicks on and runs for maybe 5-10 minutes charging the caps. The caps then slowly bleed this energy into the battery pack. It is impossible to charge a battery pack at the rate necessary without the pack overheating, but capacitors can handle very large surges in current. This also works in reverse, so the capacitors recharge off from the batteries and allow for rapid accelerations.
  • rowlodge, on 11/01/2007, -2/+6don't expect very many "spell junkies" or mechanically challenged people on digg to give a real answer.
  • adevilsadvocate, on 10/31/2007, -5/+0This guy is based in my home town of Wichita KS!! Woot!
    Anyhow sounds awesome. Hope it is all true and catches on. http://saeenergy.com/
  • yunus, on 11/01/2007, -1/+8Whats the reliability of these engines. Will they go 250,000 miles in a car before needing replacement.
    • Peepsalot, on 11/01/2007, -0/+7While I agree diesels can be very reliable, I also think it is not uncommon for a properly maintained gas(non-diesel) engine to get over 250,000 miles either. My father's 1981 Toyota Camry got over 300,000 miles on it. When he finally sold it, I think the main reason was that the body was rusted out all over and the seats upholstery worn down to the metal.
      • yunus, on 10/31/2007, -0/+1I'm curious as to the longevity of these engines that this guy in the article is producing. To get them so much more efficent is he sacrificing reliability? Is he using ultra light weight parts which wont last as long and will warp after a few months use?
      • fitzsimj, on 11/01/2007, -0/+1You can get crazy mileage out of any lightweight car (less wear) which is treated well and not driven hard.
        A former coworker finally changed the clutch friction disc in his early-80's Subaru at around 300k miles. But I don't think he was ever seen exceeding 50mph, and all his shifts were flawless and low-rev.
        • MASTERPL, on 11/01/2007, -0/+1Try getting "crazy mileage" out of a pontiac. A friend of mine was a mechanic, as were many of his friends. Gm's brought frowns to their faces.
    • MASTERPL, on 11/01/2007, -0/+3He is already starting out bad by putting these new engines in GM vehicles.
      • asurroca, on 11/01/2007, -0/+1How come? Getting better fuel economy out of subcompacts that already have great fuel economy is lame... getting good fuel economy out of a giant dinosaur like a Hummer, THAT's impressive.
  • scoob20, on 11/01/2007, -12/+6Buried for kook kos hate site. Anyway, I like my cars and trucks heavy and safe, thanks.
    • surf314, on 10/31/2007, -1/+2Sarcasm?
    • nycmac247, on 10/31/2007, -0/+4did you even RTFA?
    • thewhits, on 10/31/2007, -2/+3kos hate site? any proof of that? didn't think so. way to be a sheep, dude.
    • Drax0n, on 10/31/2007, -2/+3Good for you, to bad your kids, and grand kids will pay the price for your selfishness.
    • Blydchyld, on 10/31/2007, -0/+1no i dont think he did...
  • bimtott, on 10/31/2007, -4/+3So vegetable oil is fine in this engine, and maybe the mileage better, but isn't this just like main issue with ethanol, in that it doesn't exactly cut down the truck's carbon footprint?
    • mmtiller, on 10/31/2007, -1/+1Actually, the carbon balance is different because the vegetables were grown and therefore had to take their carbon out of the atmosphere where as fossil fuels took their carbon out a long time ago. Of course, biofuels are not totally "carbon neutral" because you don't necessarily use biofuels for the tractors, the shipping, etc. But if it were a purely biofuel system then it would actually be carbon neutral (consume as much carbon in creating the fuel as you release when burning it).
  • dagr8tim, on 11/01/2007, -1/+26*yawns* BioDiesel is nothing new. Hell Willy Nelson has a truck stop in Texas that sells the stuff.

    But BioDiesel suffers from the same specter as Ethanol. There isn't enough of it to go around if a large portion of our cars and trucks used it. For example with Ethanol, if you planted corn on every useable plot of farming land in the US, it wouldn't be enough to provide all of the US's needs for automotive fuel. Plus there's be no land left to grow any food. Not to mention, that most used fry oil is made from corn. Which technology are we going to turn our backs on to feed the other?

    While this is cool, and is a great feel good story. There has to be a long term option that is viable.
    • bauklo, on 10/31/2007, -1/+1while you are right stating that in the future food and energy will be competing, i disagree on the amount of land needed. a friend of mine has been working on his phd on this very subject. energy plants WILL take away land from food plants (and we are seeing the results of this here in europe as prices for food have surged some 10% last year). but overall the land we have WILL suffice IF combined with appropriate energy conservation efforts in the area of decreasing energy consumption.
  • Motobike_man, on 11/01/2007, -10/+11first off the dailykos is a turd. Secondly, Detroit is already working on this:
    http://www.evworld.com/news.cfm?newsid=11036
    • cryptoki, on 02/01/2008, -1/+1just stealing these inventors ideas.. lol... fortunately.. most of these guys get patents surely.
  • jhbarr, on 11/01/2007, -4/+17Just imagine the snide looks he probably gets from Prius drivers who do not realize he gets better gas mileage than they do with vegetable oil.
  • SpiroPope, on 11/01/2007, -2/+4Ok the article is crap, but the concept isn't BS. Check out Goodwin's company website: http://saeenergy.com . It makes for interesting reading.
  • Anewman87, on 11/01/2007, -2/+13Diesels are way more reliable then gas engines, that engine if maintained properly could easily see 250,000 miles, this is no joke.
    • clickwir, on 11/01/2007, -0/+3Actually better. Most truckers will call their big rig "new" until it reaches the 1 million mile mark. Go look for Used ones. They have several hundred's of thousands of miles on them.

      My 93 Integra that runs off 87 pump gas is at 205k right now.
      • gibsonic, on 11/01/2007, -0/+2exactly, they just get broke in at 100k
    • slothlovechunk, on 10/31/2007, -1/+1It isn't a diesel engine you silly monkey.
  • AROZ, on 11/01/2007, -3/+7It seems like Munich and Tokyo haven't made it possible either...
    • clickwir, on 10/31/2007, -0/+1Blame management, not the engineer's. It's not like they can't do it, it's that they WON'T do it.
    • sassafras1232, on 11/01/2007, -0/+0Munich has...There is an episode of Top Gear where they drive the diesel A8 800 miles on a single tank of gas. Not sure on the HP and weight, but I'm sure it's no lightweight in either department
  • BECoole, on 10/31/2007, -9/+4"Doing what Detroit says is impossible; 5,000lb vehicle gets 60mpg 0-60 5sec" and has a top speed of 61mph.
    • Buelldozer, on 11/01/2007, -0/+2Yeah, except he hasn't actually DONE it yet!
  • Amazetbm, on 11/01/2007, -1/+10It's a diesel, I'm not surprised. I think Audi won the Le Mans a couple of years back with a diesel powered race car.
  • skyshock1, on 11/01/2007, -1/+15This is great and all, but assuming we ALL start driving these cars, there isn't going to be enough fry-grease to go around.
    • doktorzee, on 10/31/2007, -1/+3I'm sure all the Mickey D's, Bugger Queens, Wendy's, KFC's and others will make sure we're well stocked with their waste for years and years to come, with their output levels increasing I'm sure as Americans get fatter.
    • slashbot, on 11/01/2007, -0/+5Haha exactly. This is why biodiesel solely from used cooking oil would not work for mass consumption
    • deelux247, on 11/01/2007, -0/+5Soylent Green is people ... PEOPLE!
    • mahdaeng, on 10/31/2007, -0/+3All we have to do is boil down some of the obese people and use the extract for fuel.
  • djmaverick, on 10/31/2007, -5/+1Very cool. More people would be hybrids if they didn't look like toys.
    • mahdaeng, on 10/31/2007, -0/+4Hybrid people? Interesting.
    • rpong1981, on 10/31/2007, -0/+2Your conception of a Hybrid is skewed. If you think all hybrids look like the Prius you're wrong. Take a look at the new Civic Hybrid, Ford Escort Hybrid, Toyota Camery Hybrid, and Lexus RS 400 Hybrid. Oh, did I mention the new Chevy Tahoe Hybrid?
    • chuckdubdubdub, on 10/31/2007, -0/+1More people would eat healthy food if it all tasted like donuts! Get educated and change your lifestyle. This isn't really about choice -- did you notice all the glaciers are melting and the polar ice cap is disappearing?
  • milliamp, on 11/01/2007, -11/+10I call *****
    • milliamp, on 11/01/2007, -3/+3Why always mod my ***** down? I am right. The 60mpg estimate does not account for the fry-grease that was mixed int with the diesel to make the biodiesel fuel.
      This would be like cutting premium gas by mixing in 80% regular unleaded and and saying you have a 5x improvement in MPG. This is completely slanted.

      If biodesiel is really the end all, be all, why not just present the information accurately?
      • davidjay247, on 11/01/2007, -0/+1Furthermore, the ***** hasn't actually made the thing. These are just some ideas he's got in his head. I don't know what the hell everyone is smoking. I guess no one is actually reading the entire ***** article.
  • salinemist, on 11/01/2007, -7/+12What we need is a car that will run on Bush Derangement Syndrome.
    • bingobongony, on 11/02/2007, -5/+7Here we go again...A typical day in your life:

      FRIEND: You wanna go to the movies?
      YOU: No. Life is alreay a horror movie, thanks to that ***** George Bush!

      FRIEND: Can you believe that the Red Sox won the World Series again?
      YOU: They only won becuase that ***** Bush rigged the games.

      KIDS AT YOUR HOUSE TONIGHT: Trick or Treat!
      YOU: You've ALL been tricked! By that ***** George Bush!

      YOUR MOM: Hi, son.
      YOU: ***** George Bush!

      Seriously...isn't it tiring to be so pathetic?
      • chall2001, on 10/31/2007, -0/+3You said it!!!
        We all know its Clintoooon's fault!!!

        Sorry, couldn't help myself.
      • floorman56, on 11/01/2007, -0/+2Aug 21 2017 ...See that !! ....it's Bushes fault,
        Dude ...Bush has been out of office for years .... and that's a solar eclipse
    • Willie0248, on 10/31/2007, -0/+2We're getting closer.
    • acoldone, on 10/31/2007, -0/+0Do we really want to put the oil companies out of business?
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