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- Raider007, on 11/06/2007, -13/+234if it's true... this guy is either going to disappear or die somehow in the next year...
- mmtiller, on 11/10/2007, -14/+128Sorry, but this is *****.
First, the headline is completely misleading because it refers to something the guy in the article claims he can do, not something he has actually done.
Second, there is no mystery in this at all. It is never a question of what Detroit can do, it is what they can sell. I can tell you first hand (I worked on the Ford Hybrid Escape) that price is the critical factor in anything Detroit produces. They won't add a dime of content to a vehicle unless they can show they make back 11 cents. The other consideration is durability (I suspect he didn't re-engineer his connecting rods and bearings to deal with the extra power and torque which, by the way, would add weight and lower fuel economy). Spit and bailing wire isn't going to fly.
I'm all for innovation and so are lots of people in the car industry but would you accept a vehicle (like the one in the story) whose fuel freezes on a cold day?! Honestly, it is no mystery. Just because some hobbyist does it (and more power to him, BTW), doesn't mean you could mass produce tomorrow, make a profit on it and have it operate trouble free for 100,000 miles. - AxeSwinger, on 11/01/2007, -4/+60Doing what Detroit says is impossible
by kos
Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 11:50:06 AM PDT
This story is so incredible, I had to do additional research to confirm that it was indeed true. It centers on Kansas City auto mechanic and inventor Johnathan Goodwin.
Two years ago, Goodwin got a rare chance to show off his tricks to some of the car industry's most prominent engineers. He tells me the story: He was driving a converted H2 to the SEMA show, the nation's biggest annual specialty automotive confab, and stopped en route at a Denver hotel. When he woke up in the morning, there were 20 people standing around his Hummer. Did I run over somebody? he wondered. As it turned out, they were engineers for GM, the Hummer's manufacturer. They noticed that Goodwin's H2 looked modified. "Does it have a diesel engine in it?"
"Yeah," he said.
"No way," they replied.
He opened the hood, "and they're just all in and out and around the valves and checking it out," he says. They asked to hear it run, sending a stab of fear through Goodwin. He'd filled it up with grease from a Chinese restaurant the day before and was worried that the cold morning might have solidified the fuel. But it started up on the first try and ran so quietly that at first they didn't believe it was really on. "When you start a diesel engine up on vegetable oil," Goodwin says, "you turn the key, and you hear nothing. Because of the lubricating power of the oil, it's just so smooth. Whisper quiet. And they're like, 'Is it running? Yeah, you can hear the fan going.'"
One engineer turned and said, "GM said this wouldn't work."
"Well," Goodwin replied, "here it is."
And what's the bottom line for Goodwin's modified vehicles? Stuff like this:
Goodwin's feats of engineering have become gradually more visible over the past year. Last summer, Imperium Renewables contacted MTV's show Pimp My Ride about creating an Earth Day special in which Goodwin would convert a muscle car to run on biodiesel. The show chose a '65 Chevy Impala, and when the conversion was done, he'd doubled its mileage to 25 mpg and increased its pull from 250 to 800 horsepower. As a stunt, MTV drag-raced the Impala against a Lamborghini on California's Pomona Raceway. "The Impala blew the Lamborghini away," says Kevin Kluemper, the lead calibration engineer for GM's Allison transmission unit, who'd flown down to help with the conversion.
Remember -- Detroit tells us it's impossible to increase gas mileage without taking a hit on horsepower. Yet here's Goodwin -- with an eight-grade education -- able to design motors that blow the doors off the conventional (and obviously *****) wisdom.
His latest project?
Goodwin leads me over to a red 2005 H3 Hummer that's up on jacks, its mechanicals removed. He aims to use the turbine to turn the Hummer into a tricked-out electric hybrid. Like most hybrids, it'll have two engines, including an electric motor. But in this case, the second will be the [jet] turbine, Goodwin's secret ingredient. Whenever the truck's juice runs low, the turbine will roar into action for a few seconds, powering a generator with such gusto that it'll recharge a set of "supercapacitor" batteries in seconds. This means the H3's electric motor will be able to perform awesome feats of acceleration and power over and over again, like a Prius on steroids. What's more, the turbine will burn biodiesel, a renewable fuel with much lower emissions than normal diesel; a hydrogen-injection system will then cut those low emissions in half. And when it's time to fill the tank, he'll be able to just pull up to the back of a diner and dump in its excess french-fry grease--as he does with his many other Hummers. Oh, yeah, he adds, the horsepower will double--from 300 to 600.
"Conservatively," Goodwin muses, scratching his chin, "it'll get 60 miles to the gallon. With 2,000 foot-pounds of torque. You'll be able to smoke the tires. And it's going to be superefficient."
He laughs. "Think about it: a 5,000-pound vehicle that gets 60 miles to the gallon and does zero to 60 in five seconds!"
And here's the punchline:
Goodwin's work proves that a counterattack is possible, and maybe easier than many of us imagined. If the dream is a big, badass ride that's also clean, well, he's there already. As he points out, his conversions consist almost entirely of taking stock GM parts and snapping them together in clever new ways. "They could do all this stuff if they wanted to," he tells me, slapping on a visor and hunching over an arc welder. "The technology has been there forever. They make 90% of the components I use."
The problem with Detroit isn't the laws of physics, it's the fact that a guy who never even went to high school can do things -- with stock parts -- that Detroit's auto executives and their armies of engineers claim is impossible. Good ol' American know-how and ingenuity is alive and well, just not where we need it. - rwvalentine, on 11/01/2007, -6/+61then get rich while detroit goes broke
if i hear one comment about Big Oil covering this up i'll
type really hard and mad like - brstilson, on 11/01/2007, -5/+59First off, he hasn't even built the thing yet, so you don't know if that 60 mpg figure is him just blowing smoke up everyone's rear end. When it IS built, he also isn't taking into the account the second fuel source, hydrogen. I'd love to be able to make a car with two gas tanks and base the mpg off of the fuel usage in one, but that's not how it works.
- FriskDown, on 11/01/2007, -5/+44If this is true, then I would like to see how Goodwin pulls it off.
- jefree, on 11/01/2007, -3/+37If this is true than the current state of auto design is really strange. Why can't better designs reach the marketplace?
- LinuxAddict, on 11/01/2007, -2/+35Dugg for "Yet here's Goodwin -- with an eight-grade education -- able" instead of eighth-grade education......
- TeatimeGrommit, on 11/01/2007, -2/+35Many impressive prototype vehicles have been built. There are issues beyond trick performance to be considered, like will the vehicle last for 100,000 miles and what about other pollutants like NOx, particulates and various sulfur compounds. I personally think electric cars will win out over biodiesel by 2030.
- TheStooge1, on 11/10/2007, -7/+38Sorry, but the cred of this article went out the window with this statement, "When you start a diesel engine up on vegetable oil," Goodwin says, "you turn the key, and you hear nothing. Because of the lubricating power of the oil, it's just so smooth. Whisper quiet."
Complete and utter crap! - eflesher, on 11/01/2007, -6/+34I so need him to hook up my truck! This is freaking awesome; I hope people start paying attention.
- cherwilco, on 11/01/2007, -1/+27what is this? repeat the ***** headline day?
- izzybr, on 11/01/2007, -5/+31With an eighth grade education? Unbelievable. I can't remember how many people I knew dropped out of engineering in college because they couldn't handle it.
Uber-kudos to this guy - slashbot, on 11/02/2007, -18/+43I am very skeptical of most stuff coming from the dailyfringe.
However I do hope that this is true and that we see it mass produced soon. - dagr8tim, on 11/01/2007, -1/+26*yawns* BioDiesel is nothing new. Hell Willy Nelson has a truck stop in Texas that sells the stuff.
But BioDiesel suffers from the same specter as Ethanol. There isn't enough of it to go around if a large portion of our cars and trucks used it. For example with Ethanol, if you planted corn on every useable plot of farming land in the US, it wouldn't be enough to provide all of the US's needs for automotive fuel. Plus there's be no land left to grow any food. Not to mention, that most used fry oil is made from corn. Which technology are we going to turn our backs on to feed the other?
While this is cool, and is a great feel good story. There has to be a long term option that is viable. - Coestar, on 11/01/2007, -1/+23Doesn't the fact that this is blogspam discredit your comment? Original article: http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/120/motorhead- ...
- jsd8cc, on 11/01/2007, -2/+23...and again:
http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/120/motorhead- ... - toastgodsupreme, on 11/01/2007, -2/+22Think how computers would be if the power companies were in bed with parts manufacturers. Do you really think we'd have such low power consumption?
Same applies to the auto industry. Do you really think they're going to make things more fuel efficient when their bed partner, the oil companies, would throw a ***** fit? Yeah... - BlackJackJester, on 11/01/2007, -4/+24Just because he dropped out of school in 8th grade doesn't mean he didn't get knowledge elsewhere. That guy is obviously pretty smart, has a team of really smart people, and has been working with cars for a long time. He may not have gotten his knowledge conventionally through school, but he has it.
- chrisatwork, on 11/01/2007, -4/+21Yes, shut out those you disagree with. Thats rational thinking!
- nullity, on 11/01/2007, -1/+18Perhaps you would prefer the original story then: http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/120/motorhead- ...
- mredamon, on 11/01/2007, -0/+17It's no different, other than the fact you will have to replace the hydrogen when it runs out... Wait a minute, that means it's very different. Begone, fuzzy logic, and the Tuscanspeed you rode in on.
- BlackJackJester, on 11/01/2007, -1/+17Scared of change? Profit margins? gas companies?
- jsd8cc, on 11/01/2007, -13/+28Would everyone please just link to the goddamn source when you submit please?
http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/120/motorhead- ... - skyshock1, on 11/01/2007, -1/+15This is great and all, but assuming we ALL start driving these cars, there isn't going to be enough fry-grease to go around.
- TheTaoOfBill, on 11/01/2007, -4/+18People have been showing noise with their wallets by buying cheaper foreign cars like Toyota and Honda with better gas mileage and a larger reliability factor. Ford and GM know that's what they need to do but they don't have the resources to do it because they are getting sucked dry by drug companies and unions.
- reedsturtevant, on 11/01/2007, -1/+15RTA it is not an ICE it's an electric + turbine hybrid
- Spuy767, on 11/01/2007, -0/+13I tried to find it on the Page, but I did not see a citation for this article everywhere. Basically this blogger has shameless copied several passages of an article in a magazine that I read a couple fo weeks ago. The entire article is much more enlightening.
Original Artice: http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/120/motorhead- ...
Original Digg Posting: http://www.digg.com/offbeat_news/Super_Hybrid_Humm ... - jhbarr, on 11/01/2007, -4/+17Just imagine the snide looks he probably gets from Prius drivers who do not realize he gets better gas mileage than they do with vegetable oil.
- TheZorch, on 11/01/2007, -2/+15There's a company in Los Angeles, CA which modifies cars and SUVs to run off vegetable oil. They've been in operation for a few years.
- tmbrwolf19, on 11/01/2007, -0/+13Try http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/120/motorhead- ... it seems to have been taken from there.
- brisbin33, on 11/01/2007, -8/+20blocked at work, unbiased summary anyone? im intrigued
- skyshock1, on 11/03/2007, -9/+21Automotive labor unions.
- zart, on 11/01/2007, -7/+19They tell you in TFA.
"If this is true"... WHA? You would doubt the journalistic integrity of MTV?! Kurt Loder would be appalled. - izzybr, on 11/01/2007, -2/+14Yeah, duh, I realize that, which is why I said 'uber-kudos'. And thanks for pointing out that he got his knowledge somewhere else, Captain Obvious.
The point I was trying to make is that it is exceedingly rare these days for someone with as little formal education as he has do so much, particularly, when people with much more formal education can't make it in their field of study. - davewashere, on 11/02/2007, -0/+11Stop making sense, get down on your knees, and start pleasing this loose-with-the-facts jr. high dropout engineer.
- Anewman87, on 11/01/2007, -2/+13Diesels are way more reliable then gas engines, that engine if maintained properly could easily see 250,000 miles, this is no joke.
- mikesbaker, on 11/01/2007, -6/+17and this my friends is why i hate the daily kos
http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/120/motorhead- ...
http://digg.com/motorsport/MotorHead_Messiah_GM_Sa ... - Double0Doug, on 11/01/2007, -3/+14The fact that I can get a foreign car for less than a comparable domestic car is a pretty loud noise if you ask me.
Be it gas mileage, comfort, speed… whatever. When I bought my last car (four years ago), it just cost less for a foreign car verses a traditional Detroit build car with comparable features. - DrDigg, on 10/31/2007, -2/+13I think you are missing the 60 mpg part
- thesandreckoner, on 11/01/2007, -3/+13because corporations know best.
- extr3mer, on 11/01/2007, -2/+12No, it's the "Doing what Detroit says is impossible; 5,000lb vehicle gets 60mpg 0-60 5sec" day.
- AxeSwinger, on 11/01/2007, -1/+11Please provide the basis for your comment. Is it due to friction, heat transfer, material science that this would be impossible? Is there an immutable law of physics that would have to be broken?
- jsd8cc, on 11/01/2007, -0/+9Yeah, you're right, I'd rather have someone else form my opinions for me. It's much easier than thinking.
- merreborn, on 11/01/2007, -1/+10type really hard and mad like... what?
Oh no! Big oil got rwvalentine! - TheTaoOfBill, on 11/01/2007, -13/+22The only reason Detroit thinks it's impossible is because of the out of control healthcare costs. Between the drug companies charging an arm and a leg and the unions unwilling to take healthcare cuts for the sake of our economy Detroit auto makers are having a nearly impossible time trying to build any new designs.
- tehnico, on 11/01/2007, -7/+16HAHA, and when he sells his concepts to the big 3 to be buried forever? Then what?
- Amazetbm, on 11/01/2007, -1/+10It's a diesel, I'm not surprised. I think Audi won the Le Mans a couple of years back with a diesel powered race car.
- sowhat5828, on 11/01/2007, -0/+8Detroit's not broke, just its citizens. The mayor and his posse spent like 1 million on a christmas party last year
- orangester, on 11/01/2007, -1/+9You should see Ford and Roush's new experimental engine...
http://www.musclemustangfastfords.com/features/mmf ... -
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