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See the original image at nytimes.com —

Dalai Lama: "I Won’t Stop the Tibet Protests"

nytimes.com — The Dalai Lama said that he would not instruct his followers inside Tibet to surrender before Chinese authorities, and he described feeling “helpless” in preventing what he feared could be an imminent blood bath. He endorsed the right to peaceful protest, accusing Beijing of carrying out “a rule of terror".

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  • Sol1, on 03/17/2008, -8/+152Free Tibet!
    • SlvrEagle23, on 03/17/2008, -7/+22I'll take it!
      • Akairenn, on 03/17/2008, -3/+22Hello, China? I have something you might want, but it's going to cost you. That's right, all the tea.
    • indyGuy, on 03/17/2008, -0/+66BOYCOTT OLYMPICS
      • Wargalas, on 03/17/2008, -5/+5Oh please, like anyone was going to watch anyways. :)
        • ShrimpCrackers, on 03/17/2008, -0/+3Well, they're not, considering it'll probably be interrupted by other channels showing off all the chaos that ensues.
    • BoneheadFarker, on 03/17/2008, -19/+1Yes...free Tibet from Communist rule AND theocratic rule...kick both the buddist monks and the Chinese government out...
      • urothane, on 03/17/2008, -0/+27How about free Tibet from forced rule? If they choose a theocratic society, let them. We shouldn't be building nations, we should be helping nations be free enough to choose for themselves.
        • jmas9, on 03/17/2008, -0/+6Well said.
        • rilus, on 03/17/2008, -0/+6I could not have said it better myself.
        • BoneheadFarker, on 03/17/2008, -5/+3That's the point...the people didn't choose a theocratic society. The buddists just came in and took over, just like the Chinese government did. If you want a free Tibet, you cannot let the Dalai Llama come back to rule...
          • afidler, on 03/17/2008, -0/+4Mahayana Buddhism has been in Tibet since the 600'sCE. Their very culture *is* Buddhism and that is everything to them. Your a dumb ***** tool if you think that what the peace-loving Buddhist monks are doing is the same as the oppression of the tyrannical Chinese government.
          • BoneheadFarker, on 03/17/2008, -1/+0@afidler

            Then please explain why the people of Tibet did not have access to proper food, water, or medicine before 1950? Why did the monks live so lavishly while the people starved? Buddism is not the problem...buddist monks and the Dalai Llama are the problem. Free Tibet means free the people. It doesn't mean let the people be ruled by the monks instead of the Chinese government.
          • parax, on 03/17/2008, -0/+3Buddhists didn't "come in and take over". The Tibetan people have been buddhists for as long as recorded history goes back. The Dalai Lama "ruled" Tibet by influence not by force. He doesn't make decrees, he guides his people with wise suggestions.

            Why did the monks live lavishly while the people starved? First, the monks didn't live lavishly. They lived on the good will of the people. Often, people would donate more food to the monks than they could afford to, but they did so by choice. The monks didn't scour the country for people's wealth and food. Essentially the Tibetan monks have lived the same way a priest in any other country has, by the good will of the community in exchange for his spiritual guidance.

            I don't know where you dug up your crackpot history. If the Dalai Lama was so terrible, and the Tibetan people had been so bad off in a Theocracy, why would almost ever person in the country be willing to give their life to support the Dalai Lama's ambassadorial efforts?
        • haterofps3, on 03/17/2008, -3/+1Your Bat ***** crazy!

          Under Theocratic rule Tibet was a 3rd world country with a authoritain minority ruling class with a poverty stricken majority! How is that better than the improved Quality of Life that China has provided, granted at the sacrifice of Human Rights. Countries under Theocratic rule are no different than Communist rule as far as I am concerned.
          • rilus, on 03/26/2008, -0/+1"improved Quality of Life that China has provided, granted at the sacrifice of Human Rights."
            Wow... if you cannot see the irony and sheer contradiction of this statement, there is no hope for you.
        • floorman56, on 03/17/2008, -0/+2How about free Tibet from forced rule? If they choose a theocratic society, let them. We shouldn't be building nations

          Humm..we are not ...that's why this stuff is going on ...the U.S. has said hands off . let china deal with it.
        • ronaldinho, on 03/17/2008, -0/+2As much as I want to agree with you, this will really create instability. In China, especially in western China where it's almost a separate country from the mainland in essence, those districts have always been wanting to secede because they are almost completely different groups of people from the Han people (the majority type of people in China). Now if Tibet does secede, other similar states in China will be crying for secession as well (and Taiwan too). So it's a domino effect which China will be keen to avoid.

          I don't fault China for trying to prevent this potential instability, but the fact that they are not even allowing Tibet to practice their religion peacefully, that really is wrong and is it even necessary? It's not as if the Tibetans are causing problems. I say Dalai Lama is right; they should fight for religious freedom that they deserve to have.
    • fani, on 03/17/2008, -0/+13Free Tibet AND Taiwan
      • ruspecnaz, on 03/17/2008, -3/+4Free Quebec as well????
        • tak84, on 03/17/2008, -1/+1Free cheeseburgers?
        • bulkhater, on 03/17/2008, -0/+4They had a vote on that. Quebec decided to stay after all.
          • Bhima, on 03/17/2008, -0/+1yeah... and I'm wondering how it is possible that, that event is such a mystery to people that live in the US.
          • limerope, on 03/17/2008, -0/+0We're a democracy.
        • supermanred, on 03/17/2008, -1/+2Quebec is free, we've even let them have two votes on wether or not to stay in Canada, and both times they said...

          "I AM CANADIAN!"

          :)

          No such vote will ever happen in Tibet, Taiwan or American-Occupied Iraq.
      • ShrimpCrackers, on 03/17/2008, -2/+2Free Taiwan from what? If anything Taiwan needs your support. Taiwan is a modern democratic country with excellent human rights, civil liberties, and press freedom, surpassing even that of the United States. Don't take my word for it, go check Freedom House, Amnesty International, and Reporters without Borders and see what they say about Taiwan. The main problem that Taiwan has is China's meddling, their 1,350 ballistic missiles aimed at the island.
        • Jookly, on 03/17/2008, -1/+1You must have missed the number of countries in the world submission.
      • WNW3, on 03/17/2008, -2/+3FREE HAWAII http://www.freehawaii.org/
      • jimshady, on 03/17/2008, -0/+4AND Burma!
      • zzbao, on 03/17/2008, -3/+0Free your mom from your dad! Free every kid in the school! Free all criminals in jail! Free cocaine trade! Free everything! Free everybody!
      • lonewolfe, on 03/18/2008, -0/+1Why? Taiwan's already free.....
    • TsuruchiBrian, on 03/17/2008, -11/+4A free Tibet is one without control by neither the Chinese government nor The Dalai Lama's authoritarian pro-torture regime.

      We need to kill this idea that the Dalai Lama is a person to be honored and revered.
      We need to understand what a free Tibet truly means.
      • bulkhater, on 03/17/2008, -1/+3We could have George W bring Democracy to them, just like he did to Iraq.
        • TsuruchiBrian, on 03/17/2008, -3/+1I really hope you weren't inferring that I wanted W to be in charge of Tibet's freedom.
      • godfly, on 03/17/2008, -0/+7Dalai Lama's authoritarian pro-torture regime.


        care to support your statement?
        • Bhima, on 03/17/2008, -0/+1That's the Chinese agitprop. We had to free Tibet because the *Dali Lama* was torturing people. That makes about as much sense as having to Free America because George Bush is doing advanced calculus. For what it's worth I'm not saying that before the Chinese invaded Tibet, murdered hundreds of thousands of Tibetans, forced the ruler out the country, destroyed countless monasteries, tortured scores of monks, destroyed the Tibetan culture, and moved thousands of of ethnic Hans into the country to more effectively exploit & control the local populous, that Tibet was the perfect society. I have heard from Dali Lama's own mouth that Tibet was in desperate need of improvement and modernization. However what the Chinese have done, and continue to do, in Tibet isn't about modernization... It's about occupation.
        • TsuruchiBrian, on 03/17/2008, -1/+1Obviously I can't give any first hand accounts of torture that I witnessed the Dalai Lama practicing, all I have are references to books other people wrote on the subject that are themselves 2nd hand accounts.

          What I am curious about is whether you have never heard of the allegations that the Dalai Lama's regime gouging people's eye balls out and stuff, or whether you just don't think they are true.
        • talochi, on 03/18/2008, -0/+0 Dalai Lama's authoritarian pro-torture regime.
          care to support your statement?

          http://www.swans.com/library/art9/mparen01.html AND
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Parenti
      • haterofps3, on 03/17/2008, -0/+1Reality =/= Diggs
      • afidler, on 03/17/2008, -0/+1You really don't have a good grasp on something called "reality," do you?
    • RexxxMaster, on 03/17/2008, -1/+1mirror mirror on the wall who is the fairest of them all. china? (no) usa? (no) who then? (both) huh... who is the fairest of them all then? *skynet*...?
      • Butterfly9, on 03/17/2008, -1/+0what a computer running a country thats crazy! what country would ever do something like that? what have you been smoking you fool...
    • vwerf, on 03/17/2008, -0/+3While you're at it free Hat too
    • zantos420, on 03/17/2008, -0/+1edit: damnit someone else already made the family guy joke nvm
    • pentupentropy, on 03/20/2008, -0/+1Please help by signing this petition: http://www.nospintalk.com/content/view/36/1/

      Tell the governments of the world they need to step up to China and do the right thing. Digg it, recommend it, most importantly, please sign it.
    • kwyoo, on 03/21/2008, -0/+0Jump onto the bandwagon!
    • digf, on 03/25/2008, -1/+0real Tibet and Dalai lama
      http://www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html - Friendly Feudalism: The Tibet Myth
      http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message52 ... - I WAS A TANTRIC SEX SLAVE FOR A SENIOR TIBETAN BUDDHIST MONK
      http://journeyeast.tripod.com/western_scholars.htm ...
      http://www.newspiritualbible.com/index2 The Secret Truth about The Dalai Lama (Hitler and the Dalai Lama)
      http://clipmarks.com/clipmark/E01B16E1-CACF-47F3-B ... - Dalai Lama: CIA Asset
    • wangdazhang, on 04/03/2008, -0/+0do you have been China or Tibet of China?
    • Beijing08Facade, on 05/02/2008, -0/+2Beijing (as well as sympathetic Western scholars such as Michael Parenti, Tom Grunfeld and Anna Louise Strong) asserts that "pre-liberation" Tibet was a medieval, oppressive society consisting of "landowners, serfs and slaves." Tashi Rabgay, a Tibetan scholar at Harvard, points out that these three alleged social classes are arbitrary and revisionist classifications that have no basis in reality. There were indeed indentured farmers in old Tibet. There were also merchants, nomads, traders, non-indentured farmers, hunters, bandits, monks, nuns, musicians, aristocrats and artists. Tibetan society was a vast, multifaceted affair, as real societies tend to be. To try to reduce it to three base experiences (and non-representative experiences at that) is to engage in the worst kind of revisionism.

      No country is perfect and many Tibetans (including the Dalai Lama) admit that old Tibet had its flaws and inequities (setting aside whether things are better under Chinese occupation). But taking every real or imagined shortcoming that happened in a country over a 600-year period and labeling it the "way it was" is hardly legitimate history. Any society seen through this blurry lens would come up short. And in many ways, such as the elimination of the death penalty, Tibet was perhaps ahead of its time. The young 14th Dalai Lama had begun to promote land reform laws and other improvements, but China's take-over halted these advances. It is instructive to note that today the Tibetan government-in-exile is a democracy while China and Tibet are under communist dictatorship.

      The crucial subtext of Beijing's condemnation of Tibet's "feudal" past is a classic colonialist argument that the target's alleged backwardness serves as a justification for invasion and occupation. These are the politics of the colonist, in which the "native" is dehumanized, robbed of agency, and debased in order to make occupation more palatable or even necessary and "civilizing." China has no more right to occupy a "backward" Tibet than Britain had to carry the "white man's burden" in India or Hong Kong.
  • Rodehodeh, on 03/17/2008, -3/+44Save Tibet!
  • pentupentropy, on 03/17/2008, -5/+45But, President Bush says they're OK with the human rights stuff now, so it must be true ;) These guys need the world to send them a wake up call.
  • str3ama, on 03/17/2008, -28/+2ok well I'll take a lot of flack for saying it, but here goes anyways - of course he's going to allow them to protest, the end result of any success on their part would be a free Tibet (which is great) but he ultimately gets to govern over all of them which is why its in his best interest to turn a blind eye. Personally I think that he should encourage their protests but declare that they do it without violence or aggression - it'll be difficult since China is ruthless, but it'll make their victories greater in that they did it peacefully and overcame tyrants.
    • Buddhaismybuddy, on 03/17/2008, -0/+23....
      "Personally I think that he should encourage their protests but declare that they do it without violence or aggression"
      did you even read the article or the description for that matter?
      it clearly states: "He endorsed the right to peaceful protest"
    • SpaceMonkeyZero, on 03/17/2008, -0/+7He's encouraging peaceful protest. It's the Chinese military that's cutting people down.
  • Shogun6996, on 03/17/2008, -2/+105What I want to know is how do you kill a monk? These are some of the most peaceful people on the planet and all China has to do is grant them independence and they would never hear from them again. Instead they force them into a course of action and now the Chinese government is exposed as the bastards they are right before the Olympics.
    • saxreturns, on 03/17/2008, -1/+21Clearly they feel that anyone who interferes with their plan to fill the country with Chinese workers and rape all their natural resources deserves to die! Inhumane and difficult to understand, I know, but those are the motives as far as I can see.
    • URnotheonly1, on 03/17/2008, -1/+4minerals, oil.
    • IglooBurner, on 03/17/2008, -1/+24if they were to be granted independence, other provinces will act upon that example and declare their own independence, including Taiwan.
      But its not even about independence, its the fact that China won't even give them the simple right to freely worship as they please, that alone will suffice.
      • swrostmore, on 03/17/2008, -2/+15Taiwanese already consider themselves independent. They elect their own government, even if their leaders are ultimately answerable to China. I think Tibetans would accept this kind of solution, the most important thing is cultural autonomy.
        • Kurlumbenus, on 03/17/2008, -0/+4Cultural survival.
          • ShrimpCrackers, on 03/17/2008, -0/+5Actually, Taiwan's leaders are not answerable to China what-so-ever. Don't confuse Republic of China with People's Republic of China, or Taiwan with Hong Kong.

            China does not even own a single building on Taiwan. Taiwan has one of the most powerful militaries in Asia, is a US ally, is a full fledged democracy, and scores better on overall freedom indexes than even the USA and many nations in the EU.

            Its not so much cultural survival as excuses for the Chinese government for being so authoritarian. Even the idea of the Chinese "Han" as a race has been debunked. There is no such thing. Han is as much of a race as "American". Its more of a 19th century political identity if anything in an attempt to coalesce the identities of dozens of different ethnicities and cultures that are so different. Remember, China was formed after hundreds of wars between over a hundred different kingdoms.
        • UberNick, on 03/17/2008, -0/+3their government in exile even has an official web presence (tibet.net)
        • amida, on 03/17/2008, -0/+2How are Taiwan's leaders "ultimately answerable to China" currently?
      • tech42er, on 03/17/2008, -1/+8Tibet and Taiwan are independent, no matter what China thinks. ***** the Chinese government. The Chinese people are nice, but the government is authoritarian and repressive.
        • Lyph5, on 03/17/2008, -0/+2The Chinese people, for the most part, believe that what the Chinese government does is what is best for the people. It's a sad fact, but it is still a fact.
          • wellyuk, on 03/17/2008, -1/+2That doesn't make them bad as people, it's simply what they've been brought up to believe is what is correct and best. A little like christianity.
        • ShrimpCrackers, on 03/17/2008, -1/+4Tibet is sadly not independent because there are actually Chinese troops and officers killing innocent people.

          Taiwan is independent (even according to China they say Taiwan is a rogue province awaiting 'reunification') but under threat of invasion by the Chinese.
        • IglooBurner, on 03/17/2008, -1/+1Taiwan is not independent. They're not even recognized as a country in the UN. they might have declared their independence a long time ago, but they wont be internationally recognized. I was born in Taiwan, I even have indigenous blood, but my Taiwanese pass port still says Republic of China.
    • Kurlumbenus, on 03/17/2008, -1/+10Killing monks isn't that hard. They can't dodge bullets or anything.
      • wellyuk, on 03/17/2008, -1/+5No, but some of them are bulletproof.
        • Kurlumbenus, on 03/17/2008, -1/+5I do believe the boxer rebellion proved otherwise.
      • WNW3, on 03/17/2008, -1/+1"It's easy. Ya just don't lead 'em as much!"
      • okaroleo, on 03/17/2008, -1/+1When they're ready, they wont have to...
    • DaDrake, on 03/17/2008, -3/+9Actually "these peaceful people" have a long history of warfare and dominating a fairly large empire. Today, they are peaceful but don't think they built their great wealth and huge palaces by meditating. Its fare to say, modern Tibet represents little of what it was 180 years ago.

      Then again, who reads history books =p
      • ShrimpCrackers, on 03/17/2008, -2/+5Well same could be argued about China's "Peaceful Rising" and myth that they haven't invaded anyone in 600 years.

        As if battles with virtually all of its neighbors during the last 60 (yes SIXTY not Six Hundred) years under the current government isn't "peaceful enough".

        Amazingly China has called these attacks on Russia, Nepal, Tibet, Vietnam, and so forth as either 'inheritances' or 'defensive attacks'.
        • edghlilc, on 03/17/2008, -1/+3100 years ago, it's Britain, France, Germany, U.S, Russia, that invaded China, India, Africa, ...those undeveloped countries and areas. What a shame on you to laugh at China's "peaceful rising". Who is more offensive in the history of human being? who should be blamed?
      • funkyjunk3, on 03/17/2008, -1/+3DaDrake- there is blood on everyone's hands if you look at history. Tibet has been a battlegound for many different groups over it long, long history. That said, the Chinese Govn't has been far from benevolent rulers, killing untold thousands during the 1959 invasion and since then.

      • DaDrake, on 03/18/2008, -0/+1Not saying the actions against Tibet are excusable ..... just trying to dispel some stereotypes.
    • lava, on 03/17/2008, -2/+12Monks aren't always peaceful. Some do kung-fu, set themselves on fire in protest and attack other monk groups.

      That being said, free Tibet.

      with the purchase of a larger or equal Tibet.
    • globaltracker, on 03/17/2008, -2/+4Obviously you don't read history books. No worry. Here are a couple of short articles for your reading pleasure:
      Friendly Feudalism: The Tibet Myth http://www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html
      A short history of Tibet http://cc.purdue.edu/~wtv/tibet/history.html#iif10
      • cv4ever, on 03/17/2008, -1/+1lol thats a joke, why dont you post some links with a short history of china, whose history is so pure and imaculate.
        thats very funny coming from a country that recenly sent its army against unarmed students
    • schlef, on 03/17/2008, -0/+3"all China has to do is grant them independence"

      That's all? Countries don't like giving up territory.
    • Asianwaste, on 03/17/2008, -0/+2In the east, there's always been a history of religion and government at odds with each other. There have been many instances where the government feels a temple has too much power and would burn it to the ground. (See Nara)
    • floorman56, on 03/17/2008, -5/+2What I want to know is how do you kill a monk?

      Line up the shot and pull the trigger?
      yea digg me down
    • ronaldinho, on 03/17/2008, -0/+4It's Burma all over again
  • SteelChicken, on 03/17/2008, -9/+26Lets see the whining complaining euro-wankers step up and do something about it for once.
    • SpaceMonkeyZero, on 03/17/2008, -5/+10They won't. They'll complain that Bush isn't doing anything. Like how they complain about Darfur, and do nothing.
      • mahdaeng, on 03/17/2008, -0/+3And then if Bush does something about it, they'll complain about that too.
    • steeeeve, on 03/17/2008, -0/+1And what should they do? Threaten with military force???
    • andj, on 03/17/2008, -3/+3The Europeans are acting like wankers on this one im ashamed to say (being European) but what have the American assholes done in regards to stepping up when there are no financial or strategic interests involved. or when confronted with a powerful opponent.

      So the world bully doesn't have the balls to stand up to China either Im afraid.
      • mahdaeng, on 03/18/2008, -0/+1[[So the world bully doesn't have the balls to stand up to China either Im afraid.]]

        Sad, but true. And there are more ways than one to stand up to China. Hit 'em in the pocketbook, I say.
  • imbob, on 03/17/2008, -23/+2i read somewhere freeing Tibet isn't a good thing anybody confirmed why?
    • Buddhaismybuddy, on 03/17/2008, -5/+12because your the communist leader of china.
      • imbob, on 03/17/2008, -8/+2ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh ok got it now the FACTS please
    • swrostmore, on 03/17/2008, -0/+5Did you read that on Xinhua?
    • jbettineski, on 03/17/2008, -3/+5CORRUPT communist leader. Communism in and of itself isn't inherently bad. Corrupt leaders infiltrate all social structures.
      • globaltracker, on 03/17/2008, -0/+0You will be in for a surprise - Dalai Lama himself is a commie:

        In a book published in 1996, the Dalai Lama proffered a remarkable statement that must have sent shudders through the exile community. It reads in part as follows:

        Of all the modern economic theories, the economic system of Marxism is founded on moral principles, while capitalism is concerned only with gain and profitability. Marxism is concerned with the distribution of wealth on an equal basis and the equitable utilization of the means of production. It is also concerned with the fate of the working classes-that is the majority---as well as with the fate of those who are underprivileged and in need, and Marxism cares about the victims of minority-imposed exploitation. For those reasons the system appeals to me, and it seems fair. . . .

        The failure of the regime in the Soviet Union was, for me not the failure of Marxism but the failure of totalitarianism. For this reason I think of myself as half-Marxist, half-Buddhist. [54]

        And more recently in 2001, while visiting California, he remarked that "Tibet, materially, is very, very backward. Spiritually it is quite rich. But spirituality can't fill our stomachs." [55] Here is a message that should be heeded by the affluent well-fed Buddhist proselytes in the West who cannot be bothered with material considerations as they romanticize feudal Tibet.
        • alexgieg, on 03/17/2008, -1/+0The problem with this is remarks of him is that, it seems he didn't read any author on either side of the economic fence. When you take the most important communist thinkers, such as Marx, Lenin, the Frankfurtians etc., they all say, and I'm being literal, that moral principles are bourgeois prejudices to be overcome by socialist science. On the other hand, when you take Adam Smith, Bastiat, Mises and other top capitalist theorists, they all discuss morals about every page, showing what is just, what isn't, what is fairness, what isn't, how to deal with charity, and so on and so forth. And in fact, when you look at all countries who adopted one or the other, you can pretty easily see on which ones the poor are better off, and on which ones they're worse. Capitalism might not be perfect, but the alternatives are, both in practice and in theory, just worse.
    • tak84, on 03/17/2008, -4/+1So typical of digg... Someone: "I heard that there might be another side to this story"; Stupid Diggers: "Communist, Bush-loving, Hillary supporting, Idiot!!!"
      Digg is here... rational debate is dead.
      • slvrbullet87, on 03/17/2008, -1/+4"Communist, Bush-loving, Hillary supporting, Idiot!!!"
        I am in awe of this statement, the irony and ass backwards-ness of it is just amazing.
  • asdf2000, on 03/17/2008, -2/+18It is very sad.
  • URnotheonly1, on 03/17/2008, -4/+38Print more bumper stickers. That has worked for the last 20 years
  • bxblox, on 03/17/2008, -22/+4Of course he won't stop the protests. If they are successful he gets to go back to being king and every wish of the monks will be need to be met by the peasants. Forget education and all that other crap, why do you need that when you can be working day and night for the monks.
    • swrostmore, on 03/17/2008, -2/+21You're right, they should just roll over and let the Chinese ethnically cleanse their culture. Because the Dalai Llama is a monarchical tyrant, obviously. You can tell because he's always talking about "peace" and "nonviolence" and other fascist ***** like that.
    • islandlife, on 03/21/2008, -0/+0You get 3 chickens for you posting?
  • wiebke, on 03/17/2008, -6/+12"China go home!" :-(
    • edghlilc, on 03/17/2008, -2/+0China is AT home. The point is that U.S goes too far
  • garryw, on 03/17/2008, -4/+20First we should free Kosovo and Iraq. That will start a ripple effect.
    • mehan, on 03/17/2008, -3/+3...free Kosovo from what, exactly?
    • pngpng, on 03/17/2008, -1/+2who gave you the right to free another country? how do you free them, with guns and tanks?
  • URnotheonly1, on 03/17/2008, -1/+10seems some what imperialist, colonialist even. All without the building of schools, highways, hospitals, markets for goods. Hands down it is still better to have your ass kicked by the USA!
    • koreth, on 03/17/2008, -0/+2Not that I think they have a right to be there, but to be fair, China has built schools, highways, hospitals, and markets for goods in Tibet.
    • Wrangler76, on 03/18/2008, -1/+0Another ignorant Digger. What a surprise! Quality of life, literacy rate, and life expectancy has increased since China took over again. China has poured millions into Tibet to build their infrastructure.
      • bosssmiley, on 03/18/2008, -0/+2...all to the advantage of the Chinese immigrants to the area. Same stunt they've pulled for the last 2000+ years; outbreed the locals.
  • tuzziel, on 03/17/2008, -4/+16Is there a reason for Chinese to not let Tibet go ? Why are they occupying them in the first place ?

    Except, of course, that few tax bob collected over that barren land so the communist party leaders can ride
    their Bentleys.. that is a sound reason to enslave any region... yeah.
    • DaDrake, on 03/17/2008, -3/+7Obviously you never read a history book. Most importantly, it could cause a "chain reaction" of states declaring independence (much like what happen with the USSR). Secondly, they have a long and bloody history.
    • Rabscuttle, on 03/17/2008, -1/+9The Chinese believe that Tibet, and Taiwan belong to them. the country including both regions were unified before the revolution, so logically after the country has had a sucessful revolution it is only natural that all territories of china come under mao's control. the only problem is china's Horrible impositions of their anti-religious views and "cracking eggs (the innocent enslaved people) to make an omelette (the huge empire china is becoming).
      is it totally morally unjustified?
      is purging oppositions and virtually enslaving the population by withholding food a fair trade for the prosperity china is facing?
      is one generation of people being persecuted worth pulling the country out of poverty and providing the wealth that can sustain future generations?
      morality vs logic, tough fight
      • edghlilc, on 03/17/2008, -0/+0when you talk about the moral, you'd better first clarify the standard. The point is that in different countries, for different peoples, under different cultures, there are different standards of moral, of democracy. And you'd better also realize that US's standard is based on about 300m people's believes. and you are using this standard to evaluate or to judge another 1.4 billion Chinese's behaviors or hopes. Who should be the judge? If each person has the same right and power to vote, who should be blamed?
    • ronaldinho, on 03/17/2008, -0/+5If I was the president and California suddenly wants to secede, there is every reason for me to stop that from happening. Economics, geography, for example. Same thing with China, especially when there is more than one state like Tibet who's looking for a chance to secede. It's a domino effect like DaDrake is saying. Just that reason alone is enough to make China want to quash this scenario as much as possible, but the way they are doing it is not correct. They should just be leaving those states alone.
      • DaDrake, on 03/18/2008, -0/+0There is no president of California =p only the governor ........
    • pighead77, on 04/15/2008, -0/+1This post is so incredibly ignorant yet still got dugg up. No wonder when the wave of stating Iraq behind 9/11 arrives, it's so hard for any one to stand up and think critically.
      Chinese government tries to collect taxes from Tibet so they can ride fancy cars? What a bull*
      This is a Chinese government report: http://www.china-un.org/eng/gyzg/xizang/t420200.ht ...
      This is a related journal Economist report: http://www.economist.com/daily/news/displaystory.c ...

      In summry, nearly ALL taxes are excempted from that region and every year, billions of dollars poured in to help infrastructure buildup.
  • ronnyjones1, on 03/17/2008, -4/+14It seems like a large amount of China propaganda is spilling into Digg's comments these days...
  • RHandler, on 03/17/2008, -11/+39the amount of balls the Dalai Lama has makes me proud to be Buddhist
    • davidkeithjones, on 03/17/2008, -13/+5Umm...hes in India and not China. Its easy to send other people to their death, just ask GWB.
      • aladrin, on 03/17/2008, -1/+4He's not 'sending other people to their death'. He's refusing to ask them to stop protesting. I've seen nothing to say he thinks they -should- protest, only that they should have the right to.
        • davidkeithjones, on 03/17/2008, -2/+2I was contesting the "balls" comment made by the OP, clearly he doesn't have balls or else he would be with his people.
    • globaltracker, on 03/17/2008, -6/+7Read and think before you speak.

      http://www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html Friendly Feudalism: The Tibet Myth

      • brad77, on 03/17/2008, -0/+3I was going to respond to you in my own words, but I feel that Boing Boing commenter JJasper (http://tinyurl.com/2hwpx3) has already done a great job addressing your argument:

        "[...] India was pretty bad off in terms of oppression when the British took over. Tibet wasn't a shining pillar of morality, but that fails to defend Chinese Colonialism any more than Saddam Hussein's Iraq being totalitarian defends the US invasion.

        This whole 'critical of both sides' viewpoint is not really going to help resolve things. China is being colonialist, and is violently and lethally crushing any form of dissent. They'll keep doing it as long as it takes. The Tienanmen square massacre shows that it's not even an ethnic issue. Any form of dissent that shames the Chinese ruling party is met with lethal force. Chinese citizens are taught that this s a good, and proper response. They're taught from childhood that the ruling party has the right and responsibility to kill anyone who it deems a threat.

        This is what billions of Chinese are being taught. This is Maoism in action."

        I agree that counterpoint is important, and that it's important to see this from as many perspectives as possible. I'll also grant that while the cry "Free Tibet" is too simplistic, so is "Tibet wasn't all that great beforehand, so the actions of the Chinese government are justified." Your counterpoint doesn't net to zero, IMO, and doesn't excuse the Chinese government's actions in Tibet over the past 49 years.

        That said, your point is duly noted. Now let's get back to the discussion.
        • globaltracker, on 03/17/2008, -1/+1You just made my point. I am no apologist for the Chinese government. What I am looking for is a fair look on both sides. It is sickening to see people vomiting hatred whenever it comes to China. People like Richard Gere and his Hollywood ilk always romanticize the feudal Tibet like it was the Shangri-La. That couldn't be farther from the truth. There is no question the Chinese government did tremendous amount of damage in Tibet. But let's be fair - it did 'free' the Tibetans from feudalism. I don't know if Tibet will ever gain independence. Should it happen the world must be all in harmony by then. History tells us that is very unlikely.
    • alphavision, on 03/17/2008, -2/+7I think the Dalai Lama is in a very bad situation right now. He said using violence was an "act of suicide", which seems to be true since it gives China a legitimate reason to counter the riots with violence. Let's suppose the riots do end up liberating Tibet. Would his morals allow him to accept the violent methods used to regain his power? I'd lose a lot of respect for him if he did as would many others. He's in a lose-lose situation because a few bad apples protesting in Tibet thought it would be a bright idea to use violence and take the Olympics hostage for their own political agenda.
  • URnotheonly1, on 03/17/2008, -6/+2http://chinaspy.org/2007/01/25/china-finds-mineral ...

    http://www.tew.org/archived/rail.treasure.html

    http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/bizchina/2007-02/13/c ...

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/oilRpt/idUKT10821020 ...
  • funkyjunk3, on 03/17/2008, -0/+8Unfortunately for the vast majority of those who ARE peacefully protesting, there are bad apples in the crowd who just want to loot and burn. They get 10x more press than the peaceful protesters.
    • moondowner, on 03/17/2008, -0/+1It's always like that, and political parties (the ones which benefit somehow) pay the 'bad apples' and the press, so even if a protest goes well, only the bad things are being showed...
      Save Tibet... stop screwing around...
    • Wrangler76, on 03/18/2008, -0/+1Yup, it began as monks protesting peacefully. Then hundreds of youth started burning down shops and attacking non-Tibetans. What a great way to protest, eh? Destroy any economic prosperity of the region so you can live in sub 3rd world conditions again.
  • TsuruchiBrian, on 03/17/2008, -8/+16China is definitely bad, but not because this douchebag says so.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenzin_Gyatso%2C_14th ...

    "Human rights violations
    Under the Dalai Lama's rule, punishments for crimes were often severe. A man who stole sheep from a monastery had his eyes gouged out. Communists had their noses and lips sliced off, and many monasteries had their own prisons and torture chambers."
    • jt123, on 03/17/2008, -2/+10thanks for pointing that out... its too bad that most people with the 'free tibet' agenda never admits it . i agree with you that china has problems, but the apparently 'peaceful' Buddhist regime that exists there is not what most of us think it is...

      this article gives it a good perspective:
      http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Articles9/Parenti_Ti ...
    • zephc, on 03/17/2008, -0/+7Digging deeper:
      The quote comes originally from "Tibetan Interviews" by Anna Louise Strong ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Louise_Strong ) who """was a twentieth-century communist sympathizer American journalist. She is perhaps best categorized as a "fellow-traveler." She is controversially known for her coverage of, and support for, communist movements in Union of Soviet Socialist Republics and the People's Republic of China."""

      Unfortunately I cannot find any corroborating evidence or reviews of this book, probably because it was written in the 1950s by a communist sympathizer, and they weren't very popular in the 50s.
      • zengonzo, on 03/17/2008, -0/+2Not to mention that Tenzin Gyatso himself was fifteen at the time.

        I'm open to controversial views of the guy, but I'd like to see some more details, because otherwise he preaches a whole lot of tolerance and respect for life.
      • TsuruchiBrian, on 03/17/2008, -0/+1Do you think the Dalai Lama should be the ruler of Tibet?

        Obviously you believe the stories of torture under the Dalai Lama's regime are false, but IF they were true would you agree that he is not better than the Chinese government?

        I personally don't have first hand knowledge of whether these allegations of torture are true or false, or exaggerated, etc. From what I have seen and read, I would guess that they are true, but I am open to new evidence.
        • zengonzo, on 03/17/2008, -0/+2Well, I figure if the people of Tibet want him to be their leader, that ought to be what happens. According to his own teachings, if they want something else, he should let them have that.

          I'm saying I'd like some more information from more sources on these allegations because they run counter to what I've read about him for years, run counter to his teachings and run counter to the apparent desires of his followers.

          In any case, I'd prefer Tibet be allowed to govern for itself rather than the Chinese government. Why would anyone prefer that one group of people remain under the strict control of another if they are opposed to it?
          • TsuruchiBrian, on 03/17/2008, -0/+1I am indeed saying that the Dalai Lama is a hypocrite and a fraud. I think that this is not changed by the fact that he is a well respected religious leader or that he a wrote some books to the contrary.

            Also it seems a bit arrogant to me that he would say that his people want him as their dictator. This is really not a valid justification for a dictatorship. If he were so sure that his people wanted him as their leader then he should also be confident that he would win a democratic election.

            I have a feeling that some of the people with their eyes gouged out and lips cut off might vote for someone else.

            I am at work now and do not have access to much of the internet, but you can no doubt find lots of information on the human rights atrocities allegedly committed by the Dalai Lama's regime with minimal effort, and then form your own opinion based on that evidence.
          • TsuruchiBrian, on 03/19/2008, -0/+1I found this also

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8V7jc6kQfQ
        • zephc, on 03/17/2008, -0/+2I don't think he should be a sovereign leader, but I think Tibet, if it ever gains its independence, will have the world's eyes on it, and will hardly be capable of moving to anything less than something like a parliamentary system that seems so popular these days.

          Also, I don't doubt that something like these forms of torture/punishment took place, but I question the frequency of them, and if they were institutionalized, or if they were more infrequent cases of abuse by those in power that one sees pretty much anywhere (Abu Ghraib anyone?)

          Since the reports of these abuses come from someone who I noted above was a steadfast communist, reportedly with connections to people in high places, including Mao, it muddies the waters - the communist Chinese government is not unknown for using propaganda (to say the least) ;-)
          • TsuruchiBrian, on 03/17/2008, -0/+1That may very well be the case. I am not saying that I think there is a better autocratic ruler out there than the Dalai Lama, but that autocracy in general is unacceptable because it fosters these kinds of atrocities.

            I also don't think the incidents at Abu Graib and the deterioration of freedom in the United States are coincidental. Power corrupts.
      • TsuruchiBrian, on 03/17/2008, -1/+2Strong was only 1 out of 6 sources cited in reference to torture in Tibet in the article referenced in Wikipedia.
        http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Articles9/Parenti_Ti ...

        Also I don't think that Strong's account can be dismissed simply because she was a communist sympathizer, although that is certainly a possibility.
    • vertinox, on 03/17/2008, -1/+4Thats fine and dandy if you didn't like the Dali Lama's rule back in the 1950s, but can't you at least install a democratic country and go home. It would be like if the US invaded Iraq on the pretense of bringing democracy but instead of leaving annexed Iraq as the 51st state permanently forever.
    • digitallysick, on 03/17/2008, -7/+2Last i checked buddhist don't torture , so you are wrong
      • TsuruchiBrian, on 03/17/2008, -1/+1When you make a statement as string as that, you know you have to be wrong.
      • ZiggityZhang, on 03/17/2008, -0/+6Torture isn't a part of Buddhist doctrine, but then again neither were the Crusades part of Christian values nor the Muslim extremist beliefs a part of Islam. It's all the same: using religion as a front to maintain your own power and control.
        • TsuruchiBrian, on 03/17/2008, -2/+1Isn't that what religion is FOR?
    • TsuruchiBrian, on 03/17/2008, -2/+4I must have ruffled some feathers, because right after I posted this comment, someone edited that section of the Wikipedia article with IP 213.47.47.243.

      I am not saying the edits are wrong, but just out of curiosity does anyone want to take credit for them?
    • VinnieDaMac, on 03/18/2008, -1/+1Thank you for not being a completely ignorant sheep who just says what everyone else says.
    • TsuruchiBrian, on 03/18/2008, -0/+3Now the entire section regarding the Human Rights Violations of the Dalai Lama's regime and references have been removed from Wikipedia by user "Samuraidude123". No reason was given for the edit.

      Some people really don't want this stuff known for some reason. If whoever it was has some kind of evidence that these article and the references listed within it are false or exaggerated, then I'd appreciate that info. Even if these allegations turn out to be false, I think they should still be included in the article as "There are many false allegations of torture implemented by the Dalai Lama, such as ..." I don't see what is gained but simply deleting information we don't find appealing.

      I do not personally consider the Tenzin Gyatso to be a great spiritual leader and a reincarnation of other previous Dalai Lamas, but I would not delete the parts of the article that explain how he is considered by many people to be just that.

      Until then, this is the article that used to be linked in the Wikipedia article for Tenzin Gyatso the 14th Dalai Lama
      http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Articles9/Parenti_Ti ...
    • TsuruchiBrian, on 03/19/2008, -0/+2This is what the article looked like before the edit
      http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tenzin_G ...
  • rz8472, on 03/17/2008, -2/+15To someone earlier who decried the shooting of innocent monks:

    That didn't stop Burma, and Burma is near 100% Buddhist. Plus I read in the BBC that most of the Han Chinese seem to be more concerned over the rise in prices that the recent protests may entail. They have very little sympathy for the Tibetans, and thanks to state-subsidized settlement programs, now make up 50% of Tibet's population. I have a bad feeling that these protests are doomed to failure, and we won't do a damn thing to stop this, cause there's $$$ at stake if we even dare put up sanctions.

    The Chinese people... have had a sad history of being too forgiving of their governments. Even during the Cultural Revolution, most people still revered Chairman Mao and blamed the mayhem and suffering on those damned "local officials" and "party revisionists". And Tienanmen Square is an afterthought now. The college students who were at the forefront at the 1989 protests are now all studying up for business degrees and have no penchant for politics, and the sizeable minority of Communist Party Officials who favored a gradual transition to democracy have all been purged or "reformed".

    My family is a whole lot richer since I emigrated in 1990, and they're no longer wearing those goddamn ugly yellow or turquoise sweater pants with huge and ugly pictures of fire trucks pasted on the leggings, so they certainly support the government as part of new middle class. But I'd imagine it's far worse for far more people. Especially the minorities.
    • zzbao, on 03/17/2008, -7/+1It seems like you're ashamed of your country, your family, and your old self. Why not learn from Michael Jackson, dye your skin color to White and your hair to Blonde?!
      • rz8472, on 03/17/2008, -0/+6I find it ironic that many Chinese people in China are doing that as we speak, since they do sorta look up to the US as the "it" of culture

        I left when I was two, although I've been back many times, and the experiences have been mostly positive (albeit sheltered). But you can probably corrobate what I just wrote if you read the BBC or look at a few good documentaries. Finally, the Chinese people =/= The Chinese Communist Party. The CCP may be a lot better than it was in the old days, and that seems good enough to most citizens at the moment, but I wonder how long that's going to last.

        Oh and the Taiwanese Democratic Progressive Party is using China's poor handling of the Tibet Crisis as justification that Taiwan should be permanently independent from China. I'm sure dying their hair blonde is all the rage there too; good luck with reunification.
        • jewbird, on 03/17/2008, -0/+0We have to make a distinction between "China" and the organized peasant rebellion that has thrown it into chaos since 1949. Once We slaughter every last one of the peasant vermin who fail to recognize their betters along with their families, China will finally be in a position to take steps towards a brighter future.

          As for the Democratic Progressive Party, I'm sure they'll make an excellent source of hos and eunuchs for the Emperor's court after We do everything that must be done to purify China and remove communist influence, Tibet-style!
    • Bleahdom, on 03/18/2008, -0/+1Even foreign sources put the Han Chinese population in Tibet to be 5%, where did your extra 0 come from?
  • vmass20, on 03/17/2008, -5/+12I say fight back... Look what happened at Tianamen(sp) Square. Peaceful protesting does nothing without international outcry. Pictures strolled out of Chinas' military having no problem killing their own peaceful protesting students back then and nothing happend. You think they will have a problem cleansing a culture thats not even theirs. Games over, unless someone is willing to fight for them. You forget that at least 500+ thousand have died in Iraq and nothings changed. History will keep repeating itself until protesting turns violent like the revolutions of past. Pacsifist = Ingnorance
    • funkyjunk3, on 03/17/2008, -0/+2violent protests unfortunately also give excellent propaganda fodder to the chinese government to use on their own people. I agree that simply waving a flag in the street doesn't do much however. Revolutions though only happen when there are resources available. The Tibetans are essentially sitting ducks with countless millions of PLA soldiers on call to strike down any revolution. Enormous diplomatic pressures from the International arena would have more influence than any militia uprising from Tibet.
  • jyac, on 03/17/2008, -1/+13here is the blog of a tourist in tibet
    http://kadfly.blogspot.com/

    • funkyjunk3, on 03/17/2008, -0/+5Dugg UP. This is not blog spam, this is someone's journal from inside Lhasa, Tibet right now. A primary source.
    • Noein, on 03/17/2008, -3/+5I love how any comments stating the FACT that the so called peaceful protest was in fact a riot, where innocence getting attacked and properties getting destroyed is getting digged down and marked as Communist propaganda.
      • ronnyjones1, on 03/17/2008, -3/+3I don't digg down the posts stating that this ended in a riot. The fact is there is a lot of Communist propaganda being pumped into digg on these comments, like those demonizing the Dalai Lama, proclaiming Tibet's always been part of China, saying Tibetans have always welcomed Chinese soliders with open arms, those are the things I am taking aim at.

    • swrostmore, on 03/17/2008, -4/+4What a coincidence, a blogger that arrived in Tibet from China the day the protests began, somehow avoiding the tourism embargo on Lhasa, who only posts pictures of Tibetans starting fires, describes gunshots as "booms and bangs" and says things like "those involved in the tourist industry are exaggerating the situation" or there "was no sign of danger whatsoever (unless you were a PLA soldier)" or "the protesters yesterday went from attacking Chinese police to attacking innocent people."

      And also a coincidence I'm sure that "ivac" joined digg the day protests started and only posts pro-chinese comments in discussions about the Tibet riots.
      • Wrangler76, on 03/18/2008, -0/+3So, you're saying that guy just made up his entire blog because he's a communist in disguise? Well, if you don't believe him, since China MUST BE EVIL, how about reading a BBC NEWS article. Or are they communists as well? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7296837.st ... "A Western tourist in the city told the BBC: "[The rioters] seemed to go for all the Chinese shops and the Chinese people as well. I saw quite a few Chinese people beaten up... it turned totally crazy." "British journalist James Miles, in Lhasa, told the BBC rioters took control of the city centre on Friday. He some were looting shops and "taking out the contents and throwing them on huge fires which they've lit in the street". " -------------- What China really doesn't want now is videos from tourists of the police shooting up Tibetans at random. That's why the police have freaking batons and shields NOT GUNS pointing out at the Tibetans. Ugh. What the heck do you want them to do? Go on Youtube and watch the most viewed video. In one of the related videos, there's actual footage of Tibetans looting shops and beating random non-Tibetans. Your ignorance is astounding.
  • edebolt, on 03/17/2008, -3/+3China is no way going to let anything much develop unless Tibetan Monks adopt Al Quaeda tactics. China is very much eyeing the autonomous region of Sihkim state of India. No way are they going to allow giving up land that connects the two. Free Tibet?
  • seabreeze99, on 03/17/2008, -10/+0come on, America. sometimes, we need see through the ripples on the ocean surface, there's more things going on under the sea. That's what my mom always told me.
    Do you all think this is just randomly happens at this time? This is orchestrated efforts. Dali Lama is no innocent monk, believe me. US media is very manipulative, my friend.
    Here's what you see on CNN:
    http://www.wforum.com/specials/upload/200803153256 ...
    Here's what the rest of world sees:
    http://www.wforum.com/specials/upload/6538_1418424 ...
    • vmass20, on 03/17/2008, -0/+4Fix the links and maybe someone will believe you.
  • zeebusboy, on 03/17/2008, -7/+22The Tibetan people and their extremely ancient and pure Buddhist culture are a unique and valuable counter-example in a world far too dominated by greed, materialism and violence. Seeing that people, their nation and their culture systematically destroyed in a ruthless, decades-long process of genocide by the brutal Chinese government is an obscenity that should deeply offend everyone.

    Boycott the Olympics, boycott the sponsors and boycott Chinese products. Free Tibet.
    • TsuruchiBrian, on 03/17/2008, -6/+5Not only should Tibet be free from the Chinese, they should also be free from the Dalai Lama and his pro-torture regime.

      I also wouldn't mind seeing a Tibet full of atheists that think for themselves rather than Buddhist monks who spend their whole life doing what their Buddhist monk superiors tell them. I don't think Tibet should have an obligation to stay Buddhist for the sake of tradition or world religious diversity, or some other "It's a small world" BS.

      True enlightenment is realizing that no one else has all the answers either, especially if they tell you they do.
      • mehan, on 03/17/2008, -4/+4..who the ***** are you to say what's better for Tibet?
        • mikusjay, on 03/17/2008, -1/+6..who the ***** are you to say he can't voice his own opinion?
        • TsuruchiBrian, on 03/17/2008, -0/+1I am saying everyone in Tibet should have freedom.

          This would be a contrasting opinion to "everyone in Tibet should obey a self appointed autocratic ruler (The Dalai Lama)."

          Who am I to advocate democracy and freedom? I did not know this was considered such a controversial subject in English speaking countries.
          • mehan, on 03/17/2008, -0/+1democracy and freedom are not universally accepted as the one and only solution to all the problems. some societies don't even function well under democracy and freedom. you said it yourself, considering Tibet is not an English speaking country.
          • TsuruchiBrian, on 03/18/2008, -0/+1@mehan

            Are you saying Tibet is not ready for democracy? They are not sophisticated enough to chose who controls their lives? This choice must be made for them?

            These are the same arguments used to maintain institutions like slavery. Arguments like "Slaves are not ready for freedom yet" were once commonplace. This is a preposterous argument. Who are we to decide which people still need to be controlled and which should be allowed to make their own choices?

            I am not saying we should send the US military to give Tibet freedom (like Iran, Iraq, etc), but we certainly should not be endorsing an autocratic regime (The Dalai Lama's former regime), especially when there are apparently people who were being tortured under that regime. I am also not saying that we should e endorsing China's role in Tibet either.

            It should be the stance of the United States government that we do not respect any non-democratic government. In addition to governments we overtly denounce because of their lack of democracy, we should also denounce governments like Saudi Arabia, China, and even the former government of Tibet. You don't have to be exactly like us, but you have to be close. All cultures and governments are not equal. Some are better than others. Democracy is better than Totalitarianism, freedom is better than slavery. If you don't agree with this, then I think we will just have to agree to disagree.
      • godfly, on 03/17/2008, -0/+1"I also wouldn't mind seeing a Tibet full of atheists that think for themselves rather than Buddhist monks who spend their whole life doing what their Buddhist monk superiors tell them."

        buddhists do not worship a god. loser.
        • TsuruchiBrian, on 03/17/2008, -1/+1"Tibetan Buddhists hold the Dalai Lama to be one of innumerable incarnations of Avalokiteśvara, the bodhisattva of compassion."
          "He is often referred to simply as "His Holiness" (HH), or "His Holiness The Dalai Lama"."

          There may be some technicalities of whether the Dalai Lama is actually considered to be a deity or something different, but it sure sounds like the same sort of religious ***** I'm used to. The only difference between this religion and others, is that their magic leader is still alive on earth.

          The point is that they worship a man like a God. Can you think of any other religions that have that particular feature? I'll bet you can if you think about it long enough.
          • godfly, on 03/19/2008, -0/+1"The point is that they worship a man like a God. Can you think of any other religions that have that particular feature? I'll bet you can if you think about it long enough."

            Even though I never met my great grandfather- I "worship him like a God" because he died fighting the Spanish conquestadores for our freedom. I "worship" my grandfather "like a God" because he fought the Japanese and the Americans who are trying to occupy our country during world war 2. My dad never fought any battle but I worship him like a God because he struggled to raise me a up as a good man even if he doesn't have enough money for my education.

            See, the problem with you is you probably never knew how it feels like to have an inspiration in your life. I'm agnostic but I have many inspirations (or what you would call a God) but not because I have inspirations or idols mean that I believe in any of the mystical bullcrap.
      • jewbird, on 03/17/2008, -0/+0I don't recall any enlightened one saying they have all the answers, but I do recall many instances of others saying they do.
        • TsuruchiBrian, on 03/18/2008, -0/+1Iguess they don't technically even need to say they have all the answers because....
          The definition of an "enlightened one" or "Buddha" is someone who has "awakened to the truth (or Dharma)" or more generally someone has attained the state of Nirvana.

          An "enlightened one" sounds to me an awful lot like someone who has figured out the important stuff in this universe and doesn't need any further evidence in support or to the contrary from other sources like.... science.

          Believe what you want, but I don't see Buddhism or any religion for that matter "figuring out the universe" enough to be able to for example ... put a man on the moon.

          Science on the other hand claims from the outset not to have all the answers (i.e. honesty and modesty)
    • TsuruchiBrian, on 03/17/2008, -0/+3No Greed Materialism and violence?

      In the Dalai Lama's Tibet, torture and mutilation---including eye gouging, the pulling out of tongues, hamstringing, and amputation of arms and legs--were favored punishments inflicted upon thieves, runaway serfs, and other "criminals." Journeying through Tibet in the 1960s, Stuart and Roma Gelder interviewed a former serf, Tsereh Wang Tuei, who had stolen two sheep belonging to a monastery. For this he had both his eyes gouged out and his hand mutilated beyond use. He explains that he no longer is a Buddhist: "When a holy lama told them to blind me I thought there was no good in religion."
      Gelder and Gelder, The Timely Rain, 113.

      The exhibition presented photographs and testimonies of victims who had been blinded or crippled or suffered amputations for thievery. There was the shepherd whose master owed him a reimbursement in yuan and wheat but refused to pay. So he took one of the master's cows; for this he had his hands severed. Another herdsman, who opposed having his wife taken from him by his lord, had his hands broken off. There were pictures of Communist activists with noses and upper lips cut off, and a woman who was raped and then had her nose sliced away.
      Strong, Tibetan Interviews, 92-96.

      In 1937, another visitor, Spencer Chapman, wrote, "The Lamaist monk does not spend his time in ministering to the people or educating them, nor do laymen take part in or even attend the monastery services. The beggar beside the road is nothing to the monk. Knowledge is the jealously guarded prerogative of the monasteries and is used to increase their influence and wealth."
      Quoted in Gelder and Gelder, The Timely Rain, 125.
      • jewbird, on 03/17/2008, -1/+0Greed, materialism, and violence are the only viable tools to educate the masses as such is all they have the capacity to comprehend. Spencer Chapman has no concept of education to be discussing such matters.
    • jewbird, on 03/17/2008, -0/+0I agree with everything up to boycott. I say, don't boycott the Olympics if you care passionately about what's going on in Tibet. Better to attend the Olympics in person and let your political views be known.
  • NelsonR, on 03/17/2008, -7/+0Now it's China's turn to be rebuked and despised for its Human rights abuses and it's fraudulent claims to a nation not of their own. Sound familiar, were in Iraq !! Welcome to a world with a few nations attempting to subvert others. Bush is a despicable all knowing individual. Why should I stop there, Republicans are in collusion with their downright hypocrisy and righteousness they claim to have. Watched Newt Gingrich with his new wife, you know the one he was cheating with while denouncing Billy Boy, anyway Newt was degrading Obama for something his preacher said while Newt was acting pious during the entire conversation. I find that a typical Repugnant Republican tactic and why the Repugnance's should be thrown out of office. A name change is in order, Not Republican but The Hypocrits Party.
  • Rapter09, on 03/17/2008, -2/+26So why, again, did they get the Olympics?
    • SteelChicken, on 03/17/2008, -0/+3bribes, how does anyone get them?
    • slantyeyed, on 03/17/2008, -0/+3cuz they can make dirt cheap goods for the rest of the world.
      • pngpng, on 03/17/2008, -0/+0we can make cheap goods does not mean we are cheap. If you are not cheap, you can choose not to buy cheap goods.
    • cplusplus, on 03/17/2008, -0/+1You know those opening ceremonies with everyone in the audience holding up cards that make a big pictures (human pixels).
      Doesn't that say China to you!
  • daxsymbiont, on 03/17/2008, -17/+2PRAISE BUDDHISM. THE SUPERIOR RELIGION.

    KILL THE INFIDELS.
    • Buddhist, on 03/17/2008, -1/+1You were good up until the second sentence.
  • atact88, on 03/17/2008, -9/+3You are all the peons of the western media. The same media that feeds you fairy tales about the Palestinian plight. Thank you for shopping, please come again!
    • hedgehog88, on 03/18/2008, -0/+0Don't distract from what's happening now!
  • barryiggins, on 03/17/2008, -1/+14Nicaragua, Haiti, El Salvador, Guatemala, Colombia, etc. etc. etc.

    Obviously, no excuse for the Chinese government, but keep our history in mind when you want to get all righteous and indignant.
    • vertinox, on 03/17/2008, -3/+4When was the last time you seen a Buddhist monk shoot a rocket into a Chinese civilian's home?
      • barryiggins, on 03/17/2008, -2/+3I don't understand. Elaborate, please.
    • steeeeve, on 03/17/2008, -0/+2Who is the "we" you refer to?
      Obviously the US, but why is that a "we"
      • barryiggins, on 03/17/2008, -1/+1Well, I'd say that while our system is still flawed, we as civilians still have arguably the most control over our own government than any other nation...certainly more so than we would have over a foreign nation like China.
    • jewbird, on 03/17/2008, -0/+0Were any of those countries doing so much better or would they be now if left to their own devices? *****, please.
      • Wrangler76, on 03/18/2008, -0/+0That's the same thing the Chinese government says to the Tibetans. Yet, culture and religion around here is more important than higher literacy rates, life expectancy and quality of life.
  • diggadigga, on 03/17/2008, -4/+13Thats it, I am ***** boycotting the Olympics and all of its sponsors.
    • slantyeyed, on 03/17/2008, -0/+3good luck. the Olympic sponsors have their mitts in everything.
    • edghlilc, on 03/17/2008, -0/+0and don't use "made in China". I know Spielberg can do it as he is rich. I bet you can too. :)
  • nopointinnames, on 03/17/2008, -7/+6"What happened to you China? You used to be cool."

    Bart Simpson
  • JointVenture, on 03/17/2008, -2/+9Wait a second here, so everyone wants us to take action against China for killing a few rioters but we were wrong to trake out Saddam?
    • slantyeyed, on 03/17/2008, -0/+7didn't you hear? human rights in china is trendier than democracy in iraq.
    • ronnyjones1, on 03/17/2008, -3/+2Who said anything about military wise? Attacking china with military force would start WW III. Attacking diplomatically does not mean attacking with guns.
      • ronaldinho, on 03/17/2008, -0/+2as if the US has the balls to, because the Chinese has US by the balls already. US is no longer at the driver's seat nowadays, Bush's atrocity doesn't help our credentials either
        • JointVenture, on 03/17/2008, -0/+1WOW, I bet your the same person who in a thread about military spending would point out how America spends this or that much more than any other nation.
          Which is it, they have us by the balls militarily or we are the largest army in the world? (excluding cannon fodder of course.)
      • jewbird, on 03/17/2008, -0/+0If diplomacy stonewalls, I recommend aggressive negotiations - not against any collective entity, which is silly, but against any and all players. One more the Sith shall rule the galaxy!
  • jasonliman, on 03/17/2008, -4/+9I know i am going to get digg down, but whatever,
    Free cuba, free iraq, free afganistan...etc
  • Rjordan, on 03/17/2008, -5/+3How about we have a nuclear war because China wants more power than they already have?
    • globaltracker, on 03/17/2008, -2/+2Funny how you think. It wouldn't surprise anyone if there is going to be another nuclear war, by the U.S.A. Who ever dropped nuclear bombs on another nation in the history of mankind as we know it? Was it China? I dunno. My memory is a little foggy.
      • mahdaeng, on 03/17/2008, -2/+1*Another* nuclear war? I must have slept through the first one.
    • funkyjunk3, on 03/17/2008, -1/+2And start WW III? I don't know about you, but that is not a war I want to be drafted into.
    • nekama, on 03/17/2008, -0/+1Fine, just have something powerful enough to incapacitate them in one pass. Watch the Most Favored Nation become the Mostly Inexistent Nation.
    • stormiscoming, on 03/18/2008, -0/+0Cool,man. Seems it is USA's tradition to throw nuclear bombs to other country
    • Bleahdom, on 03/18/2008, -0/+1Because we'll rather not die from the nuclear fallout just so that your manhood can grow longer from your wonderful warmongering pride?
    • nivekush, on 03/22/2008, -0/+0this is crazy. go read some more news before you make this random statement.
  • ccfccp, on 03/17/2008, -10/+3***** Tibet and the Dalai Lama. He is as big an ***** as the Chinese are!
    • curriegrad2004, on 03/21/2008, -0/+0I agree with what you said. The Tibetans get more than any other ordinary person in China.
      Free University, lighter criminal sentences, self-autonomy in the region, what else you can ask for?
      All China wants in return is money generated from the tourism industry
  • URnotheonly1, on 03/17/2008, -2/+4FREEDOM BABY! IT'S WORTH DYING FOR!
    • slantyeyed, on 03/17/2008, -1/+3you can go die for it. I'll stick around to actually live free.
  • screwthename, on 03/17/2008, -2/+7First, stop fighting like kids. The Chinese government seems more corrupt than many western governments not because the Chinese are naturally more evil, but because their more corrupt system unleashed more evil out of their politicians. Saying "***** china" or "boycott the olympics" helps only to prove the West nowadays can do nothing but bark in China's face.
    • mahdaeng, on 03/17/2008, -2/+1The West can do plenty to oppose China, but it foolishly chooses not to. Boycotts are an excellent way to start. No guns need to be fired. No one needs to die. Just boycott all Chinese goods.
      • lonewolfe, on 03/18/2008, -1/+1then start by taking all of your clothes off
        yeah, its pretty hard to boycott Chinese goods
        • mahdaeng, on 03/18/2008, -0/+1[[then start by taking all of your clothes off]]

          Hmmm...let's see...My sweater was made in Mexico, my pants were made in Indonesia, my shoes were made in the good old U.S. of A., and, to be honest, I'm not sure where my undergarments were made because I don't think the people in my office would appreciate my checking right at this moment. How about your clothes?

          [[yeah, its pretty hard to boycott Chinese goods]]

          It's extremely easy not to do anything. If anything is hard to do, we probably shouldn't even try doing it, right?
        • curriegrad2004, on 03/21/2008, -1/+0What about your Hard Drive? What about your phone's microchips? What about the CPU in your computer?
          You can't escape it. Just accept the fact that almost everything comes from China?
  • mehan, on 03/17/2008, -4/+7America, please stay the ***** away from this.


    Thank you.
    • nekama, on 03/17/2008, -1/+1No, and how many megatons would you like aimed at China?
      • curriegrad2004, on 03/21/2008, -1/+0That will be asking for nuclear warheads from the Russians dropped on US soil.
    • edgedmurasame, on 03/18/2008, -0/+2I guess they want all that we can empty on them, by them digging you down repeatedly.
  • zzbao, on 03/17/2008, -8/+8For "***** China" goers, I'd like to offer my sympathy for your brain damage.
    For "Nuke China" goers, you'd better blow your brain out or before the radiation of Nuke fallout turn you into a walking zombie.
    .
    • funkyjunk3, on 03/17/2008, -1/+4Nuking china would do nothing more than start WW III and kill millions of people.
    • zzbao, on 03/17/2008, -1/+2Oh lord, I'd say it would kill billions of people and bring the human race to savages
    • hedgehog88, on 03/18/2008, -0/+0no intelligence, make your point.
  • kelsosmythe, on 03/17/2008, -6/+3Hello China? I have something you may want, but it's gonna cost ya... That's right.. all the tea...
  • itbethomas, on 03/17/2008, -3/+8If only we would stop buying Chinese made crap, and started making it for ourselves. China's economy would go in the tank, these bastards wouldn't have the power they do, the dollar would stop depreciating, gas prices would stop going up (partly because the dollar would be stronger and China would not be buying up the world's resources) America's unemployment would go down. Too bad the political and business leaders are too concerned with making money for themselves than helping people in general.
    • globaltracker, on 03/17/2008, -1/+3Were you kicked in the head by a donkey? Talk about twisted logic! The Americans (and the rest of the world, for that matter) bought Chinese made crap in the first place. It is econ 101, supply and demand. Only an idiot (and a redneck) like you would blame the falling dollar and rising gas price on China. The Shrub and his cohorts are the culprits, don't you think? But more than that, the Americans are to blame - stop living beyond your means by borrowing money from the Chinese (and the Japanese, and the Arabs).
    • zzbao, on 03/17/2008, -3/+2If China goes tank as US is doing right now. You'd better accumulating gold and say bye bye to US dollar. It's the trade between China and US keep the current value of US dollar, as everyone else is starting to use Euro for their own good.

      Ok, let's shut off all trade with other nations, no more oil import and export. let's disband wall street and release all the gold reserves, let's ride horses and use shell for currency, let's give up expensive military and let's down size the federal gov,

      Start to think using your brain, don't repeat others.
    • steeeeve, on 03/17/2008, -0/+0If poverty increases, the power of the people goes down, therefore the power of the leaders goes up.
    • Bleahdom, on 03/18/2008, -0/+1Making enough cheap clothing and toys to meet demand within the US would crash your economy, stop dreaming of a low-skilled factory job that will pay even less than one in the service sector.
    • DiGGX3, on 03/18/2008, -0/+0Would you learn basic economics first, good sir?
  • slantyeyed, on 03/17/2008, -2/+13if we actually cracked down on China, we'd have to start paying factory workers in the US a decent wage to make crappy toys.
    • mahdaeng, on 03/17/2008, -0/+3Or just quit buying crappy toys, period.
    • zzbao, on 03/17/2008, -2/+1Or just let american children works as factory labor, they will stop brag about toys, period.
    • ronaldinho, on 03/17/2008, -2/+3yeah, $30 Jesus action-figures!
  • DrHyde, on 03/17/2008, -12/+3The Chinese helped get rid of the feudal/Medieval tibetian kingdom - which kept the country underdeveloped using religion and tradition.
    Chinese have brought prosperity to Tibet, better roads, better infrastructure that what monks would have managed - if Tibet was free...
    Of course, in the process, some ppl have had 2 give up the right to dissent - but is that TOO high a price 2 pay ?
    • SuperVepr308, on 03/17/2008, -0/+4Yes, it is always too high a price to pay.
    • funkyjunk3, on 03/17/2008, -0/+4What happened 50 years ago when Chinese Govn't invaded Tibet and took control of was a massive injustice. There is no two ways about it, they invaded another country.Debate what you will about its history, Tibet was sovereign at the time of it invasion.

      What gets me is that people seem to think native Tibetans will simply forget about it and go on with their happy lives. They do not forget, and they want their rights back that were taken away 50 years ago. Has the technological advancement that's taken place since then helped people? Yes, even the Dalai Lama has noted that. Has the Tibetan's hope for justice for the invasion 50 years ago quelled because of this technological advancement? No. The crushing of Tibetan's pride, right to practice their religion openly has just hurt them even more, has hurt their dignity, and they don't take that lightly.
      • zzbao, on 03/17/2008, -3/+0You'd better ask American Indians on whether they want their shiny Casino or their land of free.
        • funkyjunk3, on 03/17/2008, -0/+1America does not repress dissent, like the Chinese Govn't does. The way we work is through diplomacy, that is why the Free Hawaii movement is still alive. In China such a thing would be angrily attacked by the govn't,
        • zzbao, on 03/17/2008, -2/+0Yeah, America just killed all the Indians! What about the discrimination of Chinese immigrant in the 19 century? What abou the concentration camp for Japanese American in the 1940s? What about the Red Hunt in early 1950s? Does Joseph McCarthy ring a bell to you? What about the secret prisons CIA runs all over the world nowadays? What about the South American elected leaders being overthrown, or assasinated in the past 50 years? Where's the leader of Black Panzer movement?
          Where is the diplomacy? I am really sorry to say you are completely brain washed. No government is clean on this matter, period!
          • funkyjunk3, on 03/17/2008, -0/+1How many large anti-government protests in China have gone on without some sort of crackdown? Americans have a legal right to protest, and they use it quite often. Sure there's things like WTO a decade ago where we had a crackdown, but that is in the minority.

            And don't you even begin to lecture me on American atrocities. McCarthyism, ever read about that? Joseph McCarthy, a senator back in the 1950's called everyone he didn't like Commies to discredit them. He started the Red Scare. After 9/11 there were a bunch of secret raids all over the USA of innocent Muslim people, who were often taken to interrogation rooms for several days before being released.The current Do Not Fly List has tens of thousands of names on it, only a small fraction are probably terrorists. There's probably names on there that American government officials deem "suspicious". Not to mention the NSA's spying of American citizens who are deemed "persons of interest" based off some person's whim.

            Did I ever say America was perfect? hell no. It's far from it. I agree, no government is clean, but there is more freedom to dissent than found in China. The Chinese Government has cracked down for decades against Tibetan groups protesting for the preservation of their culture.
            They have cracked down on the practice of Falun Gong meditation practices: http://www.iht.com/articles/2003/07/22/edli_ed3_.p ...
            They have cracked down on Christian practicioners that do not follow the Official State Christian doctrine: http://www.christianpost.com/article/20080207/3110 ...

            Why does China have one of the largest armies of internet censors in the world? To keep freedom of speech at a minimum on topics that the Chinese Government find distasteful.

            The ball is in the Chinese Government's court to act on its human rights abuses. There is no arguing away the fact that they have some very serious abuses to clean up.
    • JorgeGT, on 03/17/2008, -0/+3Yes. Breaking the Human Rights is a too high price to pay por anything. What if the next time is your rights what is broken? What if for the sake of your city or country or whatever your home is destroyed or you become a slave?
    • TsuruchiBrian, on 03/18/2008, -0/+1It's not like China overthrew a democracy. It is just one dictatorship replacing another. Tibet was never free.
  • haterofps3, on 03/17/2008, -3/+6Free Tibet, but for the love of all that is right and moral in the world don't give it to the Dalai Lama as that would be a terrible sin! Buddhism is a great Idea but like most religions its great ideals are betrayed by the weak and the prideful. Let Tibet be ruled by the people and not by the monks or by China!
    • mahdaeng, on 03/17/2008, -0/+1How's this for an idea: Let Tibet be ruled by whomever they choose to be ruled by.
    • freeTibetNow, on 03/18/2008, -0/+0Actually, if you were to read what the Dalai Lama says, he wants to create democracy in Tibet. He's also science supportive and progressive socially. The plain fact is that if the Dalai Lama was actually to be put in charge of Tibet, it would be a liberal democracy.

      Just like the Tibetan government in exile is.
      • TsuruchiBrian, on 03/18/2008, -0/+2What the Dalai Lama says and what the Dalai Lama does are 2 different things. Maybe he should read some of his own books.
  • Carlix, on 03/17/2008, -9/+2Dalai Lama is the new hope for humanity.
    • zzbao, on 03/17/2008, -6/+0Let's make DaLai a US citizen, stop waiste money on elections, just crown him as the king. (US constitution didn't say we cannot crown a foreign born US citizen king of United States.)
      Disband congress and senate, because Tibetan monks are good at debating. Let go all other religion in America and embraces Buddah.

      Oh Buddah, I love you, you're my savior and lord.... Praise the DaLai Lama, the crown of human race .....
      • godfly, on 03/17/2008, -1/+2what are you, a 12yr old kid pretending to know things? buddhists do not worship gods.
        • zzbao, on 03/17/2008, -2/+1This is first time I've heard Buddhists don't worship god? Maybe a 12 yr old kid knows better than you do. Then why the Buddhist put up so many Buddhas in their temple? Dalai Lama is a name of a Buddha, and the Tibetan worship him like God.
        • TsuruchiBrian, on 03/18/2008, -1/+1You're right they don't worship Gods. They only worship men who are the living reincarnations of past Dalai Lamas because they are the only ones who have attained the ultimate truth.

          In fact they are one step beyond traditional religions in that the human manifestation of their God is still alive and tours college campuses around the world.
          • godfly, on 03/19/2008, -1/+1you sir are an ijit
            they do not worship the dalai lama. they look up to him and rely on him to guide them. he is the father figure of their culture but unlike with the pope, the admiration ends there- there are no deities to worship. if you're a psychopath or if you don't have a father or you are a know-it-all who thinks that you have more experience and knowledge that your own elders, you will never know how it means to have somebody (an inspiration) to look up to.
          • TsuruchiBrian, on 03/19/2008, -0/+1@godfly

            You need to learn to read. You also need to learn not to start every comment with an insult. Notice how even when I disagree with someone, I can communicate my point of view without calling people names. It is not because I don't know how either. I find it ironic that you are calling other people childish.

            Furthermore...
            I don't construct millions temples and statues of my father figure. I don't believe my father figure has been reincarnated 13 times. This to me is evidence of worship. You can call it whatever you want, but I know religious worshiping when I see it.
  • SuperVepr308, on 03/17/2008, -3/+3Why won't China leave Tibet the ***** alone? Is this a pissing contest or is there something there they really want?
    • zzbao, on 03/17/2008, -8/+0Oh yeah, I'd like to piss into your pants!
    • lonewolfe, on 03/18/2008, -0/+0you haven't read the news have you?
    • jimmyleeca, on 04/15/2008, -0/+0why won't new world settlers leave indians the ***** alone? Aren't you still living on native indians land right now?
  • rossiprojects, on 03/17/2008, -2/+1Boycott the Pecking olympic games. Free Tibet.
  • trollick, on 03/17/2008, -5/+1Why the ***** does everybody care about that Tibet so much anyway???
    • zzbao, on 03/17/2008, -2/+1It's because DaLai is a piece of eye candy and his religion promotes the separation between body and sole. It's way high talking about Tibet than smoking pod!

      Oh Buddah, I love you, you're my savior and lord.... Praise the DaLai Lama, the crown of human race .....
  • DesertTripper, on 03/17/2008, -3/+1Anybody callous enough to shoot peaceful monks deserves something nasty in return. Hell, I can still remember the emotions I felt after offing a couple of Nali in "Unreal" after they started worshiping me.

    Bluff Eversmoking - now there's one of the most awesome levels in FPSdom!
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