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DOCUMENT: Nazi “enhanced interrogation” techniques exact same as Bush's

dvorak.org — The phrase “Verschärfte Vernehmung” is German for “enhanced interrogation”

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  • caponumen, on 10/11/2007, -186/+19The main reason the so called "press" has leaked and heavily reported on the on going torture by the USG is to instill fear in the American public.
    • dagnabbit, on 10/11/2007, -12/+190The reason the press reports on the US using torture is that it is newsworthy. To quote Glenn Greenwald at Salon.com,

      "The reason that it is news that the U.S. tortures, but not news that Al Qaeda does, is because Al Qaeda is a barbaric and savage terrorist group which operates with no limits, whereas the U.S. is supposed to be something different than that. Isn't it amazing that one even needs to point that out?"

      http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2007/06/01/al_qaeda/index.html
    • Junkyarddawg, on 10/11/2007, -18/+132@caponumen: You're upset at *the press* for reporting torture?! How retarded are you?
    • readthis, on 10/11/2007, -9/+141I cannot understood why men of rank would promote torture knowing it will authorize enemies' recourse and may justify their acts of greater inhumane abuse. WW II allied military leaders knew better.

      The ethic of reciprocity or "The Golden Rule" is a fundamental moral principle found in virtually all major religions and cultures, which simply means "treat others as you would like to be treated."

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethic_of_reciprocity


    • leontes, on 10/11/2007, -11/+60But the reason it's deplorable is not because the nazi's also did it. It's deplorable because it's disgusting and embrassing and wrong. The Nazi's some pretty neat things too. I wouldn't want someone to say, no public transportation cause the Nazi's did it!
    • Dumbledorito, on 10/11/2007, -14/+63And once again, we have to explain it to the dunderheads.

      The U.S. (or anyone purporting to be the good guys) torturing = news.
      The bad guys torturing = expected.
    • blackolive, on 10/11/2007, -5/+7Mirror: http://wannabepoet.net/mirror/nazi-torture-memo/
    • FadieZ, on 10/11/2007, -20/+7Every evil genius needs inspiration.
    • DildoOreilly, on 10/11/2007, -63/+19"THEY'RE NOTHING LIKE NAZIS"

      YEAH, RIGHT.
      PROTECTING THEIR OWN PLEASURES OUT OF LOYALTY TO THE PARTY.
      CONSERVATIVES ARE NOTHING BUT EVIL BASTARD LIARS WHO LEARNED IF THEY PRETEND TO BE THE MORAL AUTHORITY THEY CAN GET AWAY WITH ANYTHING.
    • Anrkist, on 10/11/2007, -50/+29Comparing someone to the Nazis is pretty lame.. they killed roughly 10 Million people.. let's not go overboard.
    • esotericguy, on 10/11/2007, -34/+56Well, Bush’s grandfather WAS the banker to the NAZI party… Maybe he brought back some manuals?
    • Derelict267, on 10/11/2007, -42/+19I didn't know Bush interrogated people...Huh. It seems that anyone who puts the word Bush in the title of any article on digg immediately gets dugg. And here we have someone who is abusing it.
    • diggsuxxxx, on 10/11/2007, -38/+6the title of this article should be: DOCUMENT: Nazi “enhanced interrogation” techniques exact same as Bush's and Ron Paul's
    • thenativeraver, on 10/11/2007, -6/+33@dildooreilly
      Once again, the caps-lock key shows exactly how intelligent the poster really is.
    • an0nymous, on 10/11/2007, -10/+36These same "techniques" got Nazis sentenced to death at the War Crimes trials. Interestingly, the defenses they used are identical to those used by Yoo to justify the exact same activities.
    • kibiz0r, on 10/11/2007, -24/+11So, when does Godwin's Law apply to this story?
    • an0nymous, on 10/11/2007, -12/+23No- Godwin's law does not apply.
      This is an honest comparison, not a hysterical conflation.

      Here's the real article btw: http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2007/05/verschfte_verne.html
    • Aidenag, on 10/11/2007, -2/+24Here is the original article that covered this topic, Sadly, nobody at digg cares a bout middle-man rules anymore :(
      http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2007/05/verschfte_verne.html

      This one even has more info
    • mc7winkie, on 10/11/2007, -25/+13The Nazi's killed 12 million civilians. Not to mention 7.5 million Russians, 3 million of their own soldiers and I can't even remember the amount of the other allied powers. Comparing someone to a Nazi is so childish especially when there is very little semblance. I haven't seen a reported million casualties from any of these conflicts in the middle east combined.
    • caution, on 10/11/2007, -22/+11at an0n... dude don't you get it?

      you said the same "techniques" got Nazi officers executed for war crimes.

      the "war crimes" were not some wet rag in a guy's throat to make him believe he's drowning -- the trails were about massive extermination of people -- real war crimes

      it is so sad we live in a world where Nazi and Hitler are thrown around in loose comparisons

      unless you lived through that period of time, a time when nearly every able-bodied person in the free world had to support the cause to stop Hitler, you need to STFU with the Hitler comparisons.

      stick to complaining about the real issue, water boarding is only useful in very rare circumstances with the highest-value, best trained to resist enemy combatants
    • 3tcp, on 10/11/2007, -21/+9Article godwined in the second word of the headline. Whatever content there may have been in the article

      People who try to equate things happening these days to what the nazi's did have no sense of reality. Some things could be similar and pointing out that we're heading into fascism is one thing but you're an ass hole if you imply that the atrocities committed by the nazis are now being committed by the US government. Individual similarities do not mean duplication of everything bad about nazi's is currently present in the united states.

      Maybe we should hold a national day of self-flagellation to satisfy everyone who feels guilty about meaningless similarities between our government and bad governments from history. We can have another one for slavery, then another for agent orange, we could devote a whole week to the native americans ...
    • dasluvaluva, on 10/11/2007, -6/+14"WW II allied military leaders knew better."

      Right, because "Blood & Guts" Patton would've never tolerated torture against the enemy. /sarcasm

      "We're not going to just shoot the sons-of-bitches, we're going to rip out their living Goddamned guts and use them to grease the treads of our tanks. We're going to murder those lousy Hun ***** by the bushel-*****-basket. War is a bloody, killing business. You've got to spill their blood, or they will spill yours. Rip them up the belly. Shoot them in the guts. When shells are hitting all around you and you wipe the dirt off your face and realize that instead of dirt it's the blood and guts of what once was your best friend beside you, you'll know what to do!"
    • nixfu, on 10/11/2007, -35/+11ISLAM has been a cancer on the planet since it was founded 1400 years ago by a psychopathic killer pedophile child rapist:

      From Marco Polo's Diary (The Travels of Marco Polo, pp57-58 Peguin Books 1958):

      "The Muslims in Persia are wicked and treacherous. The law which their prophet Mohamet[Muhammad] has given them lays down that any harm they may do to one who does not accept their law, and any appropriation of his goods, is no sin at all.. And if they suffer death at the hands of Christians, they are accounted martyrs. For this reason they would be great wrongdoers, if it were not for the government. And all the other Muslims in the world act on the same principle. When they are on the point of death up comes their priest[Mullah] and asks whether they believe that Mahomet was the true messenger of God; if they answer "Yes" then he tells them that they are saved."


      --------------------------------------

      By Sir Winston Churchill, from The River War, first edition, Vol. II, pages 248-50 (London: Longmans, Green & Co., 1899).

      "How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Moslem's may show splendid qualities - but the influence of the religion paralyzes the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, __Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith__. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome."


      ----------

      John Quincy Adams 6th President of the USA writing on Islam in 1830(fyi..the caps appear in his orginal writing):

      "In the seventh century of the Christian era, a wandering Arab of the lineage of Hagar [i.e., Muhammad], the Egyptian, [.....] Adopting from the new Revelation of Jesus, the faith and hope of immortal life, and of future retribution, he humbled it to the dust by adapting all the rewards and sanctions of his religion to the gratification of the sexual passion. He poisoned the sources of human felicity at the fountain, by degrading the condition of the female sex, and the allowance of polygamy; and he declared undistinguishing and exterminating war, as a part of his religion, against all the rest of mankind. THE ESSENCE OF HIS DOCTRINE WAS VIOLENCE AND LUST.- TO EXALT THE BRUTAL OVER THE SPIRITUAL PART OF HUMAN NATURE.... Between these two religions, thus contrasted in their characters, a war of twelve hundred years has already raged. The war is yet flagrant ... While the merciless and dissolute dogmas of the false prophet shall furnish motives to human action, there can never be peace upon earth, and good will towards men."


      ----------

      The idea that there is this somehow NEW radical version of Islam that is different than "old"/"real" Islam is FALSE.

      ITS ALWAYS BEEN LIKE THAT but no one in the west seems to know enough about history to realize this.
    • Visnik, on 10/11/2007, -8/+47"Comparing someone to the Nazis is pretty lame.. they killed roughly 10 Million people.. let's not go overboard."

      What you are failing to see or understand is when the caparison is made; it is done so because there is a path to those "10 Million". The Nazi party started in 1920, ended in 1945, events happened to get to the end result of the Nazi Regime of 1945, and people compare events from the 25 year period to current events because you take certain steps to get to an end result. All that is being said when comparisons are made is simply this. "It has been done before by X group (this case the Nazi's) and it resulted in this_______. We as Americans should be educated and vigilant to not let history repeat it's self". So please go read a history book and pay special attention to the space between the lines.


    • Visnik, on 10/11/2007, -11/+16{ "Comparing someone to the Nazis is pretty lame.. they killed roughly 10 Million people.. let's not go overboard."

      “The Nazi's killed 12 million civilians. Not to mention 7.5 million Russians, 3 million of their own soldiers and I can't even remember the amount of the other allied powers. Comparing someone to a Nazi is so childish especially when there is very little semblance. I haven't seen a reported million casualties from any of these conflicts in the middle east combined.”

      “it is so sad we live in a world where Nazi and Hitler are thrown around in loose comparisons
      unless you lived through that period of time, a time when nearly every able-bodied person in the free world had to support the cause to stop Hitler, you need to STFU with the Hitler comparisons.”

      “People who try to equate things happening these days to what the nazi's did have no sense of reality. Some things could be similar and pointing out that we're heading into fascism is one thing but you're an ass hole if you imply that the atrocities committed by the nazis are now being committed by the US government. Individual similarities do not mean duplication of everything bad about nazi's is currently present in the united states.” }



      What you all are failing to see or understand is when the caparison is made; it is done so because there is a path to those "10 Million". The Nazi party started in 1920, ended in 1945, events happened to get to the end result of the Nazi Regime of 1945, and people compare events from the 25 year period to current events because you take certain steps to get to an end result. All that is being said when comparisons are made is simply this. "It has been done before by X group (this case the Nazi's) and it resulted in this_______. We as Americans should be educated and vigilant to not let history repeat it's self". So please go read a history book and pay special attention to the space between the lines.

      Sorry for the duplicate post, but it applies to more then just one, I wanted to include everyone.
    • Terr01, on 10/11/2007, -5/+25@mc7winkle:
      "Comparing someone to a Nazi is so childish especially when there is very little semblance. I haven't seen a reported million casualties from any of these conflicts in the middle east combined."

      You're missing the point. The point is not death toll. The angle of comparison is "interrogation techniques". If I say "Apples and Oranges are both sweet", then it actually makes no sense to respond: "Last I checked, they were different colors", since that's not what was being compared.
    • Drahkar, on 10/11/2007, -2/+22The worst part of Torture is that its been proven to be a fairly inaccurate means of gaining information. Tortured individuals will often make up information and admit to anything just to make the torture stop. It was one of the main reasons outside of the inhumanity of it for the Geneva Convention to ban it. You could very well end up torturing an innocent, getting a full confession and having it all turn out to be false and the person just said it to make the torture stop.
    • Anrkist, on 10/11/2007, -13/+6@Terr01 - You're missing the point, people mention Nazi's to instill a knee jerk reaction. That's all this is being used for. Look passed the topic and see the point.
    • bg785, on 10/11/2007, -3/+10yo i just have to respond to everyone who says it is childish to compare current nations to nazi germany, your wrong. really what did we learn from nazi germany if not to realize that any country can go down the fascist path!!! and it is our DUTY as citizens to constantly compare our country with past countries like nazi germany to make sure we DONT make the same MISTAKE. if you ignore history and continually say, " that will never happen to us." you are living in a fantasy world and do no think using facts but by using belief.
    • ferrofluid, on 10/11/2007, -5/+5@ drahkar

      "The worst part of Torture is that its been proven to be a fairly inaccurate means of gaining information."

      The main purpose of torture is to break people, so as to reduce them to a pathetic shell of what they once were, and instil fear into others.
      Torturers like to torture women and children of their targets, this breaks the subject before their turn, also gives sick kicks to the masters.
    • Yokohamalion, on 10/11/2007, -15/+5***NEWS FLASH*** Hitler and Bush both wear pants! Coincidence? Is America becoming a fascist state? For more on this story head to www.*****.com
    • mikesbaker, on 10/11/2007, -3/+5Now I was wondering where this thing came from and why there isn't the original german too? Doesn't really matter I believe anything I read on a blog anyway especially if it is about Bush being a nazi. Seriously though sarcasm aside anyone know where this thing came from?
    • blessedone, on 10/11/2007, -6/+1The Nazi's used General Sherman's scorched earth war tactics. Maybe Bush is using enhanced interrogation tactics approved by President Lincoln?
    • Drahkar, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4@ferrofluid - "The main purpose of torture is to break people, so as to reduce them to a pathetic shell of what they once were, and instil fear into others.
      Torturers like to torture women and children of their targets, this breaks the subject before their turn, also gives sick kicks to the masters."

      Absolutely. It was a means to an end in political fields and used to condemn people for not following the popular line. As you said various Monarchies and Religious groups over time would use it as a means of enforcing power over people. They would do it under the guise of gathering information but as we all know it is a worthless method for that purpose. But it was often very effective in demoralizing and dehumanizing political targets or just people that they didn't like.
    • toiletduck, on 10/11/2007, -3/+1hurr busch is teh nazi hurr
  • nblsavage, on 10/11/2007, -10/+79I've said it once and I'll say it again...we're supposed to be the good guys dammit! The fact that Bush and his cronies actually endorse crap like this makes me weep for our country. It's better we risk danger and stand for our principles than to abandon them for the illusion of safety.
    • DildoOreilly, on 10/11/2007, -50/+24BUSH'S NAZI PAST

      Documents: Bush's Grandfather Directed Bank Tied to Man Who Funded Hitler


      Bush - Nazi Dealings Continued Until 1951
      http://www.nhgazette.com/cgi-bin/NHGstore.cgi?user_action=detail&catalogno=NN_Bu sh_Nazi_2

      How The Bush Family Made Its
      Fortune From The Nazis


      How Bush's grandfather helped Hitler's rise to power


      George Bush: The Unauthorized Biography


      So now all your sins have been replaced by mental retardation.
    • thenativeraver, on 10/11/2007, -5/+19Stop trying to sell us stuff, spammer.
    • dasluvaluva, on 10/11/2007, -21/+5Showing mercy on the enemy isn't how you win a war. Look at our current progress. Contractors not being allowed weapons, men clearing houses by the hook are thrown in Camp Pendleton.
    • nblsavage, on 10/11/2007, -5/+14@dasluvaluva, if it means selling out all those who died to protect the principles that our country was built on then maybe this war isn't worth winning.
    • bloqmon, on 10/11/2007, -4/+24There is no way to win an occupation.
    • nixfu, on 10/11/2007, -24/+4>Showing mercy on the enemy isn't how you win a war.


      The way you WIN A WAR is to be more brutal, more hard core and kill AS MANY OF THE OTHER bastards as you can...more than they can kill of you.


      We have too many pussies fighting wars these days with pussy ideas of how to do it.



      The "civility" comes AFTER YOU WIN. You don't show how "nice" you are during war, you get a chance to do that AFTER your have beat the ***** out of them until they beg for mercy.....THEN you can show mercy when they BEG for it.....thats how you show how civil you are in war....not by being pussies and not willing to totally destroy them whenever and wherever you get the chance.

    • ColdDimSum, on 10/11/2007, -3/+15We're not talking about how you win a war, we're talking about how you treat prisoners of war which is a VASTLY different thing.

      Furthermore, even if you don't care how those prisoners are treated; I bet you damn well will care when these same laws that you were sold to "protect" you are then turned against you -- and blind and ignorant belief that they will not is exactly what will enable those in power to do so. It's happened time and time again throughout history.

      "PADME: So this is how liberty dies, to the sound of thunderous applause" -- and that is EXACTLY how it happens.
    • jgtg32a, on 10/11/2007, -14/+4@bloqmon

      I just love how people write statements like that and they seem so profound.


      But I will have to say that the US ***** good job in


      Japan, maybe?


      That was an occupation

      wikipedia told me so
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupied_Japan
    • bloqmon, on 10/11/2007, -3/+11jgtg

      Are you honestly saying that dropping two nuclear devices on Japan is a success? I bet you also believe that "they will follow us home." Who in this war has the funds and the wherewithall to "follow" anyone anywhere? Certainly not the people who are using decades old AK-47s and home-made explosives.

      And before you suggest that I am a "nutjob liberal who hates America and the troops" allow me to say that I want the troops to come home for their sake. They are losing their lives over questionable motives and we do not need to keep them in harm's way. The Iraqi people do not want us there any longer, so why should we stay? We are strong-arming our foreign policy onto them.

      Using violence to spread our "democracy" is no better than Al-Queda spreading their radical form of Jihadism through violence. Hamurabi would be immensely proud of the "eye for an eye" style of war-mongering. We have done nothing but tarnish our once decent image of a grand and civilized country and continuing to support this type of action will only make the hate of us grow and will most certainly blowback at some point in the future.
    • mage1129, on 10/11/2007, -3/+2@ nblsavage
      This isn't cowboys and indians that we are playing here. When we fought Germany we were fighting an enemy that we could relate to on some level(The German people not the Nazis). In WW2 even the people who were blowing themselves up had the honor to make it a fair fight (Kamikaze pilots). And it isn't just "Bush and his cronies" who support this, everyone in the senate can be held just as accountable becuase they are the supposed check. And in all reality the memo pales in comparrison to the actual torture techiques used by other nations. This war is not being fought openly, it is places, sadly to say, Like Guantanamo Bay where the war is truly being fought.
  • godgiven16, on 10/11/2007, -27/+3Freddy Krueger was a member of the Black Mafia Family. He was known for trappin' and slashin' up cocaine down in Dayton, Ohio. Freddy is aslo the half brother of Kansas basketball coach Lon Krueger.
    • DildoOreilly, on 10/11/2007, -25/+8FACT: REPUBLICANS LOVE GAY COWBOY CHEERLEADERS

      When will you fools get it?! The Nazi propaganda is designed especially for you retarded closet homo cowards, you know, to make you pathetic loosers feel more like manly men!

      When will you inbreds realize that you voted for a gay fake cowboy liberal cheerleader who just sold your children to special interest groups?

  • Xuvious, on 10/11/2007, -14/+14Why would I not be surprised that Bush would act like a Nazi?

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4315024059102108031


    -Brewskie
    • DildoOreilly, on 10/11/2007, -21/+8FOX FAKE NEWS CREATED THE 28%ers

      28% of America watches FOX FAKE NAZI NEWS!
  • DeskFlyer, on 10/11/2007, -9/+12[Bush's “enhanced interrogation” techniques exact same as the Nazis]

    Fixed.
  • Groovemaster, on 10/11/2007, -17/+18Bush might think he can get away with turning a democracy into a dictatorship like Hitler did, but he obviously hasn't considered how well-informed and brave the average American is. They'll stand up to him and show him what "by the people and for the people" really means!

    Right guys?

    /crickets chirping

    Uhhh... Guys?

    /tumbleweed

    *****. :|
    • EntropyMan, on 10/11/2007, -12/+17What are you talking about? Some of us are trying to get them impeached. And if all else fails, there are next steps that don't even involve any violence, at least not by us.
    • Groovemaster, on 10/11/2007, -13/+13"Some of us are trying to get them impeached."

      Give up on that and move on to Plan B.

      Even if impeachment was a remote possibility (and it isn't), removing Bush and/or Cheney would do nothing to change the infrastructure that's already been in place for several decades.

      The entire US political system is a staged front for what is actually already a dictatorship, but I guess the *illusion* of choice is as much freedom as most Americans can handle.
    • CannedMango, on 10/11/2007, -3/+9@EntropyMan

      If you've got information to share on how others can also help to get Bush impeached, please post it.
    • Ramble, on 10/11/2007, -5/+17It's written into your constitution that you should bear arms (and fight an illegal government).
      It's about time you should do that.
    • EntropyMan, on 10/11/2007, -3/+8@cannedmango, two things need to happen. First, Speaker Pelosi needs to understand that she won't be re-elected in 2008 if she doesn't change her mind. That's up to SF residents to enforce. But if you know any, help them make it clear. The constituents of 17+ Republican Senators also need to convince their Senators to abandon this President to the Rule of Law. That can happen over the summer break. If one GOP Senator even whispers impeachment in public, the house of cards will start to fall. Seventeen (perhaps 18) is all it takes.

      @ramble, not going to happen. We haven't even tried passive resistance. If it gets to that, and people are hurt by the government during peaceful protests, then some might start to talk about stronger measures. But I'll always opt for passive resistance, because the alternative is worse than Bush -- some other despot is bound to rise to power.
  • D3koy, on 10/11/2007, -17/+3Godwin's Law?

    • EntropyMan, on 10/11/2007, -9/+11Doesn't apply if the conversation begins with the Nazis. Maybe we need a new law about conversations about Nazis tending towards comparisons with Bush...

      [I'm kidding. Bush is nowhere near Hitler in terms of overall brutality.]
  • Plato, on 10/11/2007, -35/+5Better frightened terrorists than dead school kids eh?
    • CannedMango, on 10/11/2007, -4/+25That's an interesting scenario you just made up to justify anything you want to, eh plato?
    • Plato, on 10/11/2007, -25/+6What scenario did I make up?

      Oh, that terrorist kill innocent peoples? How exactly is that a made up scenario?????
    • CannedMango, on 10/11/2007, -6/+17You are insinuating that torturing terrorists frightens them and saves schoolchildren. It's a nice black and white scenario you paint there, but if you buy into it then you are right in line with Bush taking complex arguments and over-simplifying them. If you want to wave the threat of harm to schoolchildren as your defense for using torture then go live in your fantasy world. Where I come from, human compassion still means something and there is a strong belief that you can never overcome your enemies by becoming them.
    • Plato, on 10/11/2007, -20/+5Thats nothing close to what I insinuated.

      I am saying (in that statement) that I'd rather have a screaming, crying, tortured to hell and back terrorist who talks about an upcoming terror event and helps us stop it before it happens rather than a comfortable, tv watching, radio listening, Koran reading terrorist sitting in a cell eating better than he has ever eaten in his life...and dead innocents because some liberal politician thought standing on a box naked was "mean".
    • Terr01, on 10/11/2007, -3/+14@plato: Yes, I agree. I'd rather have frightened terrorists (assuming they were meekly frightened) than dead schoolkids.

      Sure. I agree. Who wouldnt?

      But just saying it is a slogan, not an argument. If you want to actually have some shred of logic connecting those two, you'll need to work a heck of a lot harder than that. Hell, most of the people we "interrogate" are never even charged with a crime. They are *suspects*, nothing more, nothing less.

      Shouldn't we be saying "I'd rather have tortured suspects than potentially endangered schoolkids"? Even then, you're implying that not torturing means putting children in danger, with no kind of real evidence to support it.

      Short answer: Yeah, you have a point, but it's a meaningless point.
    • CannedMango, on 10/11/2007, -3/+6@Terr01

      Thanks for the post... I was trying to say something similar but I couldn't write it as well as you did.
    • seventoes, on 10/11/2007, -10/+3INTERNET FIGHT
    • Fafnir43, on 10/11/2007, -2/+3"plato" (now there's a misnomer if ever I heard one): How would you feel about "screaming, crying, tortured to hell and back" civilians frantically making up lies about terrorist attacks to make the hurting stop? In the real world, we don't deal in certainties. We can't say "Oh look, that man's a terrorist, so we can do whatever we want", because *sometimes* *he* *won't* *be*.

      And if you're willing to take that step, if you're willing to take a civilian and maim him until his mind breaks just in case he's a terrorist, where does it end? What if you're about ninety percent sure someone's a terrorist? That sounds pretty reasonable, right? Ninety percent? How about eighty percent? Seventy percent? Sixty percent? In case you don't think that could happen, as of November last year, a bit under half the people in Guatanamo have been moved out. Under a quarter of those have been charged with any crimes. So tell me, how does twenty-five percent sound? Hell, maybe we should just 'process' all the Muslims in the country just to be safe...
  • Fragged58, on 10/11/2007, -27/+4And this is a bad thing how?
    • gutistg, on 10/11/2007, -4/+26Torture is always a bad thing, no exceptions.
    • CannedMango, on 10/11/2007, -6/+17How is emulating the Nazi party a bad thing? Is that a serious question?
    • dorshorst, on 10/11/2007, -4/+6Not everything the Nazis did was exterminating Jews. I can't give any examples off hand, but I'm sure there were some things about improving the country that people liked.
      Not everything Bush does is evil. Again, I can't give any specific examples.

      In this case, however, torture does not work and is a morally deplorable policy. The connection to the Nazis is irrelevant.
  • link5280, on 10/11/2007, -13/+6I doubt the Nazi the current US administration use the exact same torture techniques. However, torture is morally wrong no matter what specific techniques are used, yet Bush and Gonzales haven't figure that out yet.
  • parax, on 10/11/2007, -10/+31I dislike Bush and the whole torture problem we currently have. However, the transcription from the Dvorak title to the Digg title of the article is inflammatory.

    Dvorak title: "Nazi 'enhanced interrogation' techniques are the same ones used by the Bush administration?"

    Digg title: "Nazi 'enhanced interrogation' techniques exact same as Bush's"

    Drop the question mark and insert the word "exact" and it becomes a ridiculous assertion that needs point-by-point proof.
    • Plato, on 10/11/2007, -21/+9Good catch. Sadly however, you will be most likely dugg down by the blinded liberal sheep who see nothing but vitrol in all things.

      How sad that an entire website like digg is dedicated to children who think "I hit puberty over 5 years ago! I MUST be more smart than those neo-cons with all the information and life experience!"

      I may not agree with your stance on Bush, Parax, but applaud your ability for critical thinking.
    • ICSU, on 10/11/2007, -2/+12Can you say anything if you just ask?

      Old trick that question mark.
    • phaed, on 10/11/2007, -7/+4@plato (ironic isn't it)

      Whom is more perceptive? A newborn child or an old man?

      I would argue that a newborn child's perceptions are clean from any a priori conceptions those with information and experience tend to use to mask true reality. The older you are the deeper you dig into that very same trench you are so accustomed of digging.

    • Plato, on 10/11/2007, -8/+5Phaed, would you rather a pilot fly you to Hawaii or the next random poster on digg?

      Personally, I want someone MATURE and who actually knows wtf their are doing.

    • AhmedF, on 10/11/2007, -2/+2@plato - that is a stupid comparison. Flying is predicatable. Running a country isn't.

      That ? is just a technique used by Fox News, and Dvorak was just covering his ass - read the original article by Andrew.
  • ThisIsBob, on 10/11/2007, -13/+4Its not news, really, that US forces torture. What should be news is the incompetence that lets that kind of information get out.
    You think US forces practiced Marquis de Queensbury from 1776 to 2003?
  • moin1097, on 10/11/2007, -2/+16Erhöhte Befragung is German for enhanced interrogation. Verschärfte Vernehmung means Intensified Hearing.
  • NickSpinner, on 10/11/2007, -14/+11bushs grandfather was hitlers main agent in the u.s. as well.... and bush is a member of the order of death which is a mirror image of the occult society that brought hitler to power
    • Plato, on 10/11/2007, -18/+7the above message brought to you by:

      Digg Members who smoke waayyyyyy too much funky weed.
  • Jenovaside, on 10/11/2007, -8/+6Now all we need to become a nation of neo-Nazis is mass slaughter of Islam. How do we let this guy get away with all this crap? My guess to many people blinded by religion, voting to ban abortion, and not giving a ***** that people will be tortured. It’s even hitting home in the indefinite confinement of Americans with no trial; but they don’t care, we are stopping terrorism right? We are doing almost as good of a job of stopping terrorism as stopping drugs and immigration! It’s a start ;)
    This is most likely from earlier on, they got more brutal as time went on(or just fake, never know). None the less another reason bush is evil. Oh and diggmirror it because that site is going to go down fast.

  • sevun, on 10/11/2007, -12/+3Headlines like this are why crying 'Natzi' or 'dictator' gets no reaction.
  • ladybroadoak, on 10/11/2007, -7/+11Go back and do your Greg Palast homework, guys. Unless we fight back (which "we" will" the elections will be stolen for decades. But EVERY time the US populace fights back against tyranny and voter contorl they WIN, every time.

    I also suggest we drop the neoCON horsesh*t. These guys are arrogant, evil Straussians, nothing Mukan about them.

    Read the Heffelfinger story in Minnesota and weep - they are out to bury the NDN vote, too. Watch out! Unless you have a driver's license, a certified birth certificate (hard to get) or a passport (only 24% of Mukans do), you will NOT be voting in the 2008 elections. Karl Rove and his buds have seen to that.

    Face it and react! To the US ruling elite, Kissinger speaks for them all - we are just useless eaters.
    • Zarchon, on 10/11/2007, -10/+3My first urge was to insult you because that is what Digg does. I was going to try and be cute and at the same time make you look like an ass.

      A drivers license is NOT hard to get. Well, not if you are old enough to vote anyway. I am sure that even if you don't drive you can get an I.D. card from the DMV.

      Certified birth certificate is not hard to get. Just call the hospital where you were born. They will direct you to the Hall of records for that city and they will mail you a BC.

      passport? You need a certified birth certificate to get one. Honestly, I have always wondered why you didn't need to prove citizenship to vote. Voting is such an important part of what America is. What is wrong with making sure that everyone who is voting is a citizen?

      For those of us who think the elections in 2000 and 2004 were stolen, no they weren't. They went exactly as I voted.
  • Fragged58, on 10/11/2007, -20/+8Oh God, now the liberals are making bush out to be a nazi? What will they think of next!!
    • Plato, on 10/11/2007, -23/+7Next? well seeing as they hate people "torturing" terrorists, they will prolly go back and execute a few more babies once they pass the partial birth abortion laws again.

      nothing like executing an innocent child to relieve that self loathing. ANY terrorist and terrorist lover knows that.
    • ICSU, on 10/11/2007, -7/+18If you really think that abortion = child execution ... get laid.
    • Plato, on 10/11/2007, -15/+44 yr old kid and a baby on it's way. I think getting laid has given me enough problems in life as it is.

      But I will pass your suggestion on to my pregnant crazy wife, and when she arrives on your doorstep with a knife, salf and some duct tape... talk your ***** then :P

      (I honestly hope you see the friendly banter in this post)
    • xen0blue, on 10/11/2007, -7/+6I actually chuckled at this posted
    • thefaithful, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0See that's the thing.
      People like ICSU really don't view the "collection of cells" as an actual child until it is fully popped out.
      It's what they need to believe in order to have a clear conscious.
  • Look4Truth, on 10/11/2007, -9/+6For those of you guys who support this NWO-controlled puppet and the insane policies like these, just remember you supported them when they're being used on you. Make no mistake about it, it IS coming. The NWO didn't have Bush sign himself dictatorial powers just to give to the next guy. There will be one more major false flag, probably nuclear, and then it's game over. Get ready people, hell on earth is coming...
    • Fragged58, on 10/11/2007, -14/+4well, seeing how I'm not a freaking terrorist i pretty much have nothing to worry about
    • Zarchon, on 10/11/2007, -9/+2So when Bush leaves office and none of the crap you are spouting comes true, then what? Do we write you off as a total dillweed and ignore everything you ever post again?

      One of the MAIN reasons I am a conservative is because I have heard liberal gloom and doom predictions since the 60's. None of their claims have ever come true. We haven't run out of gas, we haven't all caught aids, we aren't in an ice age, we didn't go to war with the world when Reagan got elected, we didn't hear preaching from the podium or have abortion outlawed when Bush was elected, the middle class is till here, we aren't just upper class and poverty class. Oh, and we aren't in a "man made" global warming crisis now.
    • AhmedF, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3-We haven't run out of gas
      You are right, gas prices are going down.

      -we haven't all caught aids
      Right again, AIDS is almost defeated. Its in the last throes of its insurgency. Spreading viciously? lies!

      -we aren't in an ice age
      You are right again, ice ages magically happen in the span of a month, and I don't see any yet.

      -we didn't go to war with the world when Reagan got elected
      On the ball again - the world loves us.

      -we didn't hear preaching from the podium
      You are on fire - preachers aren't trying to force their beliefs on us at all

      -or have abortion outlawed when Bush was elected
      You are my hero. Abortion is getting easier (so easy that a Justice, for the first time in 15 years, actually spoke out orally twice in one year).

      -the middle class is till here
      The rich are getting poorer, and the middle class is getting bigger. Stupid Lou Dobbs

      -we aren't just upper class and poverty class
      All those studies about the rich getting richer, the poor getting poorer is hogwash. Consolidation of money into the hands of the elite? lies!

      You spoke so much truthiness there that I think we should be Digg friends.
  • ussliberty1967, on 10/11/2007, -7/+7This is nothing, government and military torturers in Israel have free reign to torture non-Jews.

    http://www.postchronicle.com/news/breakingnews/article_21283641.shtml
    • Urusai, on 10/11/2007, -4/+2Cool, Nazis had free reign to torture Jews. Convenient little ethos, eye-for-an-eye.
  • apollomurga, on 10/11/2007, -13/+4What are you supposed to expect, it's war. war is a gross thing
    • mike17032, on 10/11/2007, -7/+7Thats a lie. War is all about flowers and butterflys. No one has to get hurt!
  • JimmyTheClam, on 10/11/2007, -16/+9I love the incessant comparison of GWB with Nazis and Hitler here on Digg.
    To me, it illustrates what ineffectual and posing wusses populate this site.

    If you really thought that, why are you pussies living behind a keyboard? If Nazis REALLY were in control of this country, and you believed it, why are you not out in the streets retaking the country?
    Are you pussies afraid you might get hurt?
    If you REALLY believed what you say (and I don't believe you do - so that makes most of you liars or hysterical little girls) and you did not immediately take to the streets, then you deserve to live as slaves.
    You people disgust me!
  • artificialhero, on 10/11/2007, -6/+4I was gonna post about Godwin's law but then I realised that Godwin's Law doesn't apply during discussion of other human rights violations and war crimes. No problem with this one then.
    • Fafnir43, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2There are two types of reference to the Nazis. One is reductio ad hitlerum, as illustrated by the following:

      "Hitler did X! Do you oppose X, or are you a closet Nazi?!"

      Where X could be anything from enhanced interrogation techniques to vegetarianism. This is bad logic. This is what Godwin's law is referring to. The other type of reference is a use of scientific induction - using past events to infer future events. This type of logic runs as follows:

      "Once, group "A" did "B", which later directly resulted in "C". At the moment, group "D" is doing "B", so if they don't stop we can probably expect "C" in the future."

      Notice that this is completely different from reductio ad hitlerum. A simple example:

      Once, "Ted Bundy" "killed people", which later directly resulted in "his arrest and execution". At the moment, "some other random serial killer" is "killing people", so if he doesn't stop we can probably expect "his arrest and execution" in the future.

      Another example:

      Once, "The Nazis" "used carefully monitored enhanced interrogation techniques", which later directly resulted in "rampant torture". At the moment, "the American government" is "using slightly less carefully monitored enhanced interrogation techniques", so if they don't stop we can probably expect "rampant torture" in the future.

      Dispute the argument if you want, but please don't just Godwin it - it really doesn't apply...
    • AhmedF, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Speaking of which, Hitler wasn't even a vegetarian. Just a stupid lie perpetuated :(

      Dugg up tho for the clear difference.
  • cwiz7, on 10/11/2007, -14/+7Bush may not be a very good president... but calling him (or this country) a NAZI is retarded.
    • TDEdigg, on 10/11/2007, -2/+8That's not what the article is doing you maroon.

      It is saying that interrogation techniques that the CIA are currently using were first used by the Nazis. When they did exactly what we are doing now, we deemed it to be a war crime and executed those who used them.
  • culturedredneck, on 10/11/2007, -10/+6in other news, Bush and the Nazis both use the word "bratwurst" to describe pork sausage.

    just because the US and Nazi Germany share interrogation techniques doesn't mean those techniques are any better or worse for it. if you believe these torture methods to be immoral, they are regardless of who uses (or used) them. if you think that they have a legitimate purpose in combating terrorism, then don't let these silly comparisons sway your opinion. this is just mindless swill intended to rile the simple.
  • xen0blue, on 10/11/2007, -16/+6The US doesn't torture, in the real definition of torture...the liberals have tried to change the definition of torture to "not providing scented shampoo to inmates" and "giving the inmates tapwater instead of bottled water" to make Bush look bad. The US does NOT torture...as in, it does not disembowel people, it goes not hook wires up to people and shock them, and it does not beat people.

    Guantanamo is like Club Med when compared to "real" american prisons.
    • TDEdigg, on 10/11/2007, -4/+7You haven't read the article have you?

      Here is the original, it deals with what is deemed torture and not. We considered the conduct of the Nazis in using the same techniques that we are using currently, to be war crimes punishable by death. Try to read the article objectively and see the simple comparison being made.

      http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2007/05/verschfte_verne.html
    • diggonit, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1There is no comparison, and if you had a clue you would know that.
    • TDEdigg, on 10/11/2007, -1/+0@diggonit

      The comparison is absolute. I have a clue because I spent 3 years studying fascism, its rise and fall. Did you read the whole Andrew Sullivan article? If you did, and you see no similarity between the two types of 'interrogation', you really are the one who needs to get a clue, or join the Army... whatever.
  • phantom328, on 10/11/2007, -10/+4First of all there is no "Jew problem" and people that believe there is one are neo-Nazi thinkers themselves and should be eradicated. Second there is a key difference in the reason behind the torture that the U.S. commits and the Nazi's enhanced torture. The U.S. government does not torture people for the sake of torture. It uses torture as a tool to gain information that will save lives and make America a safer country. Although there are unfortunate incidents when certain individuals engage in malicious torture under the banner of the U.S. I would readily, but with a heavy hear,t accept the torture of an enemy who boldy states that any people that do not follow the ways of Allah and the Koran are to be labeled infidels and killed in order to gain life saving intelligence.
  • CourtesyFlush, on 10/11/2007, -9/+7Don't mind me.

    I'm just here to gawk at the Godwinites before I bury this thread for its less than accurate headline.
  • Igei, on 10/11/2007, -3/+5Did any of you read the list of things on that document that said what they could do for torture? Seriously go check it out and then start leaving comments.
  • UltraPenguinX, on 10/11/2007, -5/+3I'm not sure what this article/the poster's point is... despite all the genocide and such, Nazi's were pretty efficient at things. So either your saying Bush is a Nazi for having the same efficient torture techniques, or Bush knows what works. Now I don't really approve of Bush as much as the next guy (not a guy on Digg though, you guys seem to hate him profusely), but I think calling him a Nazi is a bit much.
  • MrObjectional, on 10/11/2007, -3/+4Oh yeah? Well...

    Um...

    THEY STARTED IT!!!
  • MacintoshSauce, on 10/11/2007, -3/+9Wilkommen zu Nazi America. Ihre Papier, bitte!
    • d3c0yn4m3l355, on 10/11/2007, -1/+0Funny to say, when Germany gave up the war, a lot of scientists were taken in by the US. Not only a lot of our research regarding airospace relies on it due the race of who manages to get a person first on the moon. But also a lot of what we now take for common knowledge in the medical world depends on research done by the Nazi's in rather horrible ways.
      It is pretty difficult to consider ethics, yet we tend to forget where we come from. Not only the Nazi's were bad, but they left also a massive ammount of research in our presence which we (even while we know where it comes from) still like to use. It is to bad that we figured out that besides the research towards the medical/engineering world also the research for the military world is being used. And whats worse that the rest of the world accepts it. We all know that the US governement authorizes torture, and in during the WO II the people who did so would be taken into prison or executed. Yet for some reason we allow these actions to hapen
  • vspazv, on 10/11/2007, -3/+6Now if only we could copy their snazzy uniforms too.
  • mikeyeah, on 10/11/2007, -3/+8@caponumen

    "The main reason the so called "press" has leaked and heavily reported on the on going torture by the USG is to instill fear in the American public."

    If you want to know who is instilling fear in the American public, I'll give you a clue: they work in a white house.
    • BT1000101, on 10/11/2007, -3/+4"If you want to know who is instilling fear in the American public, I'll give you a clue: they work in a white house."

      Nancy Pelosi? I thought so!
  • digbird, on 10/11/2007, -10/+3The whole cut and thrust of Sullivan's article is disingenuous. First of all, the Nazis were not shy about interrogation techniques that turn the stomach. In a book about the Battle of Stalingrad, I remember reading that the Gestapo interrogated a captured Soviet partisan by threading a wire down his nose and into his lung. The "enhanced interrogation" techniques practiced by the Nazis were the minimum that the Nazis did (when the heavy stuff was not politically feasible). The "enhanced interrogation" techniques used by the US represent the maximum that the US is doing (or has done).

    Second, the fact that the Nazi regime did something and some later government somewhere else does not in and of itself mean those actions were illegitimate. For example, the Nazis were opposed to smoking. So using Sullivan's logic, someone could write an article titled, "US Government's Anti-Smoking Campaign is Similar to that of the Nazis." The fact that something was practiced by the Nazi government does not mean something was illegitimate, because along with all the twisted, evil, monstrous things that the Nazis did, they also did some pretty mundane and "normal" things as well.

    Third, I really do believe that we need to stop debating whether "Torture" is wrong or not. By definition, "Torture" is always wrong and illegitimate (I'm using the capital "T" to emphasize that I'm talking about a concept here). What we need to do is debate whether a particular tactic or technique is torture or not. For example, if you watch the great movie "Battle of Algiers," you will see a scene where French soldiers interrogate suspects by running a blowtorch over their bodies. I would imagine that everyone would agree, "that is torture." But on the other end of the extreme, there are people who would define yelling at someone or using various ruses in an interrogation like telling someone that their friends have already confessed and implicated them when they have not as "torture." I vehemently disagree with that sort of definition (since police here in the US can do such things quite lawfully).

    So while I know people are going to debate whether one thing is bad or not, I hope everyone can agree that we should not over-extend the definition of "torture" to the point where someone from al-Qaeda actually enjoys more rights in an interrogation than an ordinary US citizen does if he or she is arrested for an ordinary crime?
    • TDEdigg, on 10/11/2007, -2/+9Do you think nearly freezing a man to death, who then needs medical attention to keep him alive, and then freezing him to near death again, repeat repeat repeat, is torture or not?
  • Kinjiru, on 10/11/2007, -4/+9Somehos knowing Bush and his american taliban this is hardly a suprise...
  • givemereplay, on 10/11/2007, -2/+3DVORAK.ORG/BLOG
  • fastfood15, on 10/11/2007, -2/+8Lets avoid blogspam. http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2007/05/verschfte_verne.html
  • NeuterGWbush, on 10/11/2007, -5/+9You think the Nazis rape children in front of their parents to get info?

    Bush's granddaddy and friends must've taught this new breed, but then lots of Nazis found a home in the us working for the government after the war.
  • mikeyeah, on 10/11/2007, -4/+7Torture is inhumane, it's that simple. It doesn't surprise me though. Reading some of these comments I can feel the hate oozing out of them. I guess I'll listen to "Imagine" and try to forget that there are so many ignorant, bigoted people in this world.

    "Deaf and blind and dumb and born to follow"
  • mikeyeah, on 10/11/2007, -3/+6@ Cannedmango

    "If you've got information to share on how others can also help to get Bush impeached, please post it.

    impeachbush.org
  • SassyGurl, on 10/11/2007, -3/+5If Ron Paul were president, our interrogation methods would be like.... totally humane! Ron Paul in 2008!
    • BT1000101, on 10/11/2007, -4/+3"If Ron Paul were president, our interrogation methods would be like.... totally humane! Ron Paul in 2008!"

      War is NOT humane, that is what makes it WAR! You do as much damage to your enemy as fast as you can before they can damage you! What we are doing in Iraq amounts to nothing more than a schoolyard slapfight compared to what we should be doing!
    • Fafnir43, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2BT1000101: Well, you've killed a hell of a lot more civilians over there than died on 9/11... (If that's sarcasm, then sorry. I honestly can't tell the difference between satirist and loony any more.)
    • diggonit, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1^ Thanks for posting Rosie ^
  • chicofaraby, on 10/11/2007, -4/+15Torture is a crime.
    Torture is always wrong.

    This is not a debate.
    • diggonit, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1When you come back to the real world please let us know.
  • lashrac606, on 10/11/2007, -7/+4Godwin's Law

    http://xkcd.com/c261.html
  • NeuterGWbush, on 10/11/2007, -2/+10How about Rummy admitting to crushing a little boys testes in front of his parents, is that Torture?

    How many have died because of the Torture?

    How many remember the soldier that shot herself after working a couple of weeks at abu ghraib?
    What drove her, an experienced interrogator, to kill herself, if she did? Her family wonder.
    Most of the troops on the ground wouldn't rat out a fellow for abuse, their words not mine.

    Hate makes people do what they wouldn't do, if it wasn't for the hate.

    Now it doesn't matter if they did or didn't the world thinks otherwise! So any US person can be tortured by another government and you can't stand the high ground anymore.
    • Habemus, on 10/11/2007, -8/+6>"How many remember the soldier that shot herself after working a couple of weeks at abu ghraib?
      What drove her, an experienced interrogator, to kill herself, if she did? Her family wonder."

      How many remember the lawyer that shot himself after working a couple of years in the Clinton White House?
      What drove him, an experienced lawyer, to kill himself, if he did? His family wonder.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vince_Foster
    • Fafnir43, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4What drives you people to believe that anyone gives a ******* about Clinton? You seem to think that the belief that Bush is bad goes hand in hand with the belief that Clinton spent his days healing defenceless, wounded woodland animals and working in a soup kitchen! Newsflash: very few of us believe that. Even fewer of us think that *anything* Clinton did or did not do six years ago could possibly excuse what Bush is doing now. Clinton could have shot Vince Foster *personally* and it wouldn't make a lick of difference to any sane person's view of Bush and Abu Grahib.

      Seriously. It's just pathetic.
  • Habemus, on 10/11/2007, -11/+4>"How many remember the soldier that shot herself after working a couple of weeks at abu ghraib?
    What drove her, an experienced interrogator, to kill herself, if she did? Her family wonder."

    How many remember the lawyer that shot himself after working a couple of years in the Clinton White House?
    What drove him, an experienced lawyer, to kill himself, if he did? His family wonder.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vince_Foster

    • chicofaraby, on 10/11/2007, -5/+10How sad is it when the American right wing tries to justify torture by ***** on Vince Foster's grave one more time?

  • there, on 10/11/2007, -5/+11 Few people on this world sympathize with radical jihadists but many rightwingers appear to be at war with ALL muslims. But it seems even some well meaning moderates have not clued into the idea it really isn't that absurd to draw comparisons between Nazis and current neo-conservatives any more.

    The evidence.

    - advocate torture (Regardless the political doublespeak, pretty well everyone else does see it as breaking the Geneva convention)
    - create secret prisons (wtf? Why do they need to be secret?)
    - blame "liberals" for everything under the sun (Nazi's hated them too)
    - seem to be trying to undermine the UN (Nazi Germany was very keen on undermining the League of Nations)
    - are preparing camps for an "emergency" (Need I explain this one?)
    - are changing laws to put the president in charge in case of an "emergency" (Has anyone heard what happened after the Reichstag fire?)
    - unilaterally invade and threaten other countries (Austria, the Rhineland, ...)
    - babble excessively about "superior german interests"... uhmmm "superior American interests" (with flags and eagles waving in the background of a great deal of television programming)
    - are obsessed with painting themselves as part of some quasi-mystical elite (what was Aryanism if not about establishing the Nazis as elites?)
    - start removing our rights by A. spying on us B. at least in principle... stripping us of habeas corpus
    - seem to have a religious stereotype in their gun sights that they tend to refer to as "parasites" (check out Goebbels speeches on Jewish people)
    - have a tour-de-force of propagandists on TV and radio that have nightly moralistic rants marginalizing some group (particularily Muslims)
    - openly entertain preemptive nuclear war that could kill tens if not hundreds of millions (possibly becoming the new gold standard of evil since the Naz's managed "only" 40 million or so)

    This is all just my imagination?

    Take a good look at this video (which I found displayed on the first page of conservative political section of Youtube (and read the comments of support). At 2:55 of the video the person who made the video has a countdown where he implies he is willing to nuke ALL Muslims (countdown of Muslim population down to zero) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJXW7mWPmkc

    Ahem..... sorry but is it so outrageous to think some of you are racist homicidal maniacs considering genocide after viewing a video like this? Are we supposed to wait until the nukes leave their silos to say something? Don't be stupid mofos and think if one nuke goes off that many others might not follow.

    You know some of us remember the words "never again". Those words apply to everyone. There is no honor or bravery in pushing a button and murdering hundreds of millions of innocent men, woman and children. Morals aren't always a convenience but that's what defines a brave good person over a cowardly evil one.

    • there, on 10/11/2007, -3/+6Your sort of attitude is why the neocons have gotten as far as they have.

      While I don't hold all Jewish people as innocent bystanders in this giant political mess (particularly where it comes to Israeli oppression of Palestinians) you're unfairly stereotyping all Jewish people as being part of some secret cabal. This is exactly the kind of nonsense talk that strengthens far rightwing Israeli and American resolve.

      If there is some negative stereotype of Jewish people I have is that too many seem to label others antisemitic.......which can be quite offensive and upsetting. This generation is in no way responsible for the actions of a tiny segment of the last and should not be put on trial for it because of some persecution complex (virtually every day the mass media reminds us about the Holocaust) I complain about every country in the world but I always get the sense I'm being sized over as a bigot if I say anything against negative about Israel (and I get the impression something along these same lines is why western politicians show absolutely no spine on the issue).

      The reason I mention this is because I what I think is happened is that this artifact of history is breeding resentments and perpetuates the myth that somehow Israel (and long time backer America) are entirely victims when it comes to middle east issues.

      That being said....

      This is still a stereotype. Many Jewish newspapers in Israel ARE critical of themselves. NOT all people Jewish are afraid to criticize Israelis. (http://phys4.harvard.edu/~wilson/NYTimes1948.html) Soros has put his life and fortune personally at risk by spending tens of millions of his own money speaking out against violent nationalistic ultra-rightwing Israelis (basically the same as the neocons) AND HE'S JEWISH. Even on a personal level...I grew up in a Jewish neightborhood, went to a school where more than 50% of the student were Jewish, had Jewish friends, and even dated a Jewish girl for over a year. She HATED Israeli policies against Palestinians and disliked conservatives as extremists.

      Not agreeing or agreeing with some policy doesn't mean one hates or loves an entire group of people for something. Although I am the first to stand up for Muslims everywhere... I don't pretend that many of these countries don't have largely institutionalized racism, real terrorists, and are backwards in many respects. Do you honestly think you'd feel safe living in anyone of these countries...especially as non-Muslim? Do you pretend that far right Christians seeking Armageddon aren't as big loons as extremist Israel wingnuts that killed their own prime minister (Rabin)?

      Any how I guess what I'm driving at here is the good guys and bad guys aren't mostly only in the domain of one group like in WW2. There are assholes everywhere and anyone that tries to say blame all muslims,, or all Christians, or all Jews.. are the actual assholes that are fanning the flames.

      Even though I'm swing this is why I relentlessly slam mostly rightwingers these days. I have to narrow it down to those that are most acting like violent jihadist bigots on our end. (and even then I know a large portion of them don't mean harm but they're getting sucked into the fear vortex) I also know that are groups in Muslim countries trying to do the same to their own clowns and ditto for Israel.

      We either shout down these clowns down now... or the entire world pays later. The choice is yours if you want to be part of the problem or just another bigot making things harder for the rest of us.







  • scroobyrooberoo, on 10/11/2007, -4/+7*sigh* Here's how it works:

    G.W. Bush - I hereby pardon Dick Cheney for any offense committed in his role as Vice President of the United States. I submit my resignation effective immediately.

    Dick Cheney - As POTUS I hereby pardon G.W. Bush for any offense committed in his role as President of the United States. Now try to impeach me, even though it won't matter.

    Wipe hands and laugh at the dumbfounded citizens.
  • Brutus013, on 10/11/2007, -2/+1She looks...powerful. Like she could kick my ass.
  • minox, on 10/11/2007, -9/+3I think I clicked the wrong link because the article mentioned nothing about Bush sending millions of Jews and thousands of political dissenters to the gas chamber.
    • BT1000101, on 10/11/2007, -5/+2"I think I clicked the wrong link because the article mentioned nothing about Bush sending millions of Jews and thousands of political dissenters to the gas chamber."

      Well said!

      If Bush was doing anything even close to Hitler, all these liberal assholes would have put in gas chambers and burned in ovens years ago! They need to shut the ***** up, before their dillusions come true!
    • Fafnir43, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2The problem is not that Bush is close to Hitler at the height of the Nazi regime. The problem is that Bush is close to Hitler as the Nazi regime was beginning to gain momentum, but had not yet reached the "absolute power" stage. You see, *one* of those options implies that millions are dead and we can't safely leave our homes, and the *other* implies that bad things may be on the horizon if we keep going in the same direction. Which one might most people actually believe... Think think think... Boy, this is a real toughie!
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