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Crisis In Kenya - Dozens dead following election results

news.bbc.co.uk — "At least 43 people have been killed in the western Kenyan town of Kisumu after violence blamed on the disputed presidential election. Witnesses say the police fired live bullets after protesters threw stones, claiming fraud in last week's poll."

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  • Cryptocracy, on 08/17/2008, -15/+23this is one good reason why our (U.S. citizens) 2nd amendment rights are so important.
    • notque, on 12/31/2007, -5/+20Our government has significantly larger weapons than we do. In most other countries, there may be an argument that is reasonable for violence. Not here.

      The way to succeed in this case is to strike, appeal to humanism to police. Civil Disobedience, etc.
      • SiNN4R, on 12/31/2007, -16/+5I disagree. We need to appeal to humanism but protesters with weapons are listened to a lot more than protesters with picket signs. We're not a violent country so a firearm in the hands of the American people is an exclamation point.
        • notque, on 12/31/2007, -3/+10Only if it would matter. Would it matter is the question?

          I don't think it would. We are way too out gunned. No matter how noble the cause, you will just be shot down.
          • Tilon, on 12/31/2007, -1/+1Um, put yourself into the shoes of the policemen/military looking at your own citizens with guns and a valid point of view.

            It's about bringing the issue to a head, dude. There are always a million reasons not to do something.

            Keep on blabbering.
          • Iconoclast25, on 01/01/2008, -0/+1There are 60 million households with firearms in this country . . . . Most of the people who own those are smart enough not to attempt taking out a tank or Apache with a deer rifle. OTOH, the ONLY way to secure an area is with boots on the ground. Besides, who's to say the military and LEOs would go 100% for the establishment if they were to attempt a coup?
        • DeskFlyer, on 12/31/2007, -7/+7America isn't a violent country?
      • ElAssoWipo, on 12/31/2007, -3/+18There's 300,000,000 of you. They are mostly composed of you. The point is not to attack yourselves. It's to stop obeying them. They are just figures of authority. The police and the army don't have to obey them unconditionnaly.

        http://thoreau.eserver.org/civil.html
        • notque, on 12/31/2007, -7/+4I agree. I'd really like to talk to you some day over instant messenger. I never can really tell where you are coming from.
        • notque, on 12/31/2007, -1/+5@amalgamutt

          This has nothing to do with V for Vendetta. There is a history of this.
    • fadeout, on 12/31/2007, -2/+7You tell 'em, internet rebel!

      The US army > you.
      • elnerdo, on 12/31/2007, -6/+4Why don't people ever understand this? The US army is made up of AMERICANS. In case of a really big armed uprising, they wouldn't turn and fight their own families.
        • NuWinter920, on 12/31/2007, -2/+2Even if they did fight their own families they couldn't win. A civil war in the USA would obviously be extremely ugly and if the profound US incompetence in Iraq is any clue, there's no way the US military could hope to win such a conflict, even on their own soil as it were.
          • TheGuruStud, on 12/31/2007, -2/+3EXACTLY! Guerrilla warfare in our country would be suicide for the gov't/anyone. Look at how many buildings and people with guns that we have. If it takes 1 million troops to secure Iraq, imagine how many millions it would take to secure a country of this size (assuming everyone isn't a bunch of PANSY ASS BITCHES LIKE THEY ARE NOW).
        • nycmac247, on 12/31/2007, -2/+3Larger and larger percentages of Blackwater are foreign born.
          Remember katrina? "Give us your guns"
      • nycmac247, on 12/31/2007, -2/+3"The US army > you."
        Yeah, that's why we're winning in Iraq, right?
        • pintomp3, on 01/01/2008, -0/+2the 2nd amendment covers roadside bombs and rpgs?
    • springboks, on 12/31/2007, -2/+6[sarcasm] because violence solves everything ?
  • Rotzooi, on 12/31/2007, -0/+46'Claiming' fraud. Well, with voter turnout at 115% in some districts, I think we can safely say that fraud has been proven.
  • QGYH2, on 12/31/2007, -6/+22Very sad stuff.. Odinga won the election.. Kibaki pulled a dubya and stole it. The situation is quite bad there.. roads barricaded, media gagged.. etc.. there are speculations that it could spill over into a civil war between the two big tribes there (Luo and Kikuyu).

    I don't think things will be that bad but the violence will continue. I doubt Odinga will have a choice but to accept defeat and move on
    • Lshah, on 12/31/2007, -2/+3I think so too. Though the real test will be on the 3rd when Odinga holds his rally. It's heartbreaking to see it come down to this. I remember how jubilant folks were when they overthrew Moi four years back. I have close family in Nairobi so it makes me even more nervous..
  • Elohir, on 12/31/2007, -0/+10A guy I know in Kenya says the death toll is around 120. Scary indeed.
  • kody, on 12/31/2007, -1/+14Having just been there in July, the poverty in the slums are truly inhumane. The income gap of the country is truly amazing. Just got an e-mail from a friend in Nairobi and he can't even leave his church compound...
    • elnerdo, on 12/31/2007, -3/+17He did say that he stumbled upon a big fortune, and that he needed my help in recovering it, though.
    • captric, on 12/31/2007, -3/+1I got that email also! All I have to do is forward $10,000 dollars and he is going to share the millions with me!!
    • crapmatic, on 12/31/2007, -1/+3Can't say I've seen many Kenya 419 spams.
    • kody, on 01/01/2008, -0/+0Dudes I was serious but now I see how it could be taken... should've explained it better..
  • Themauvestorm3, on 12/31/2007, -10/+4When I first read the headline, i misread election to be erection. Now it makes sense.
    • Sarawanan, on 12/31/2007, -1/+4yea, and I read the headline as Crysis. But now that you think of it, there was probably a story not too long ago with erection and Crysis in the same sentence.
    • Themauvestorm3, on 01/02/2008, -0/+1Rofl. Touche
  • omnirusa, on 12/31/2007, -6/+27Hell atleast people in Kenya care enough about their government to protest fraud.
    American's can't even care enough to go out and vote in the first place.
    • manifestdata, on 12/31/2007, -4/+5Yeah I know. Every year the US elections are deadlocked at 0 to 0. It is just ***** rediculous. Obviously we need to start following the precedence set by third world countries.
      • iticu, on 12/31/2007, -2/+4That country is "revolting" because they think the elections where rigged. What happened when the American elections where rigged?

        Now, lets ask eachother which countrys are the ones that's gunna be free in 10-20 years time.
        • superkendall, on 12/31/2007, -3/+3And what if the elections were not rigged? You can't imagine that to be possible, can you?

          You really can't rig elections on that scale, with the procedures in place (as long as electronic voting systems don't become too widespread). Face it, you're just a sore loser.
    • captric, on 12/31/2007, -4/+2What fraud? Are you talking about Bush winning even though he didn't win the popular vote? That is why we have an electoral college and that is why we have a supreme court. It is all spelled out. Even though I did not vote for Bush and think he is arguably the worst president in my lifetime, there was no FRAUD involved.
  • petehol, on 12/31/2007, -1/+3If you ask me they should fight to the death until they redo the elections otherwise they are F*****ed
    • Elohir, on 12/31/2007, -0/+7They're pretty much ***** regardless. Do you vote for the guy who rigged the elections or the guy inciting riots, looting and murdering in a desperate push for power.

      Choices, choices.
  • Shaman760, on 12/31/2007, -7/+4Coming soon to a continent near you......as in USA......
    • vertinox, on 12/31/2007, -1/+6Only after we finish watching this TV special on Britney Spears...
    • InspectorGadget, on 12/31/2007, -1/+8We're a continent now? Cool!
    • captric, on 12/31/2007, -0/+2YES!!! We are a CONTINENT! Keeeewwwllllll. It will never happen here because we have a competent legal system and a set of rules for elections. It has NEVER happened here and NEVER will.
  • MyDiggIsBig, on 12/31/2007, -9/+2i know its mean, but i thought the game Crysis was being brough to Kenya the second i read the title. See what America has done to our heads. the government probably paid the makers of the game to name it that so we would be distracted when we heard the world Crises. ok i think im going insane. bye. viva greenland!
  • Toshibi, on 12/31/2007, -1/+6Tragedy. These folks must not have voted for Huckabee.
  • healthyapples, on 12/31/2007, -11/+1Kenyan people should just use what their known for and run to freedom in the USA
  • patrflav, on 12/31/2007, -7/+5I think the title is misleading - I don't know if they have good enough computers there to play Crysis properly
    • jthei, on 12/31/2007, -1/+2The XO won't run Crysis, everyone's stuck playing CS:Source in Wine
  • Psi57, on 12/31/2007, -12/+3120 dead black people in Africa. Not to sound insensitive, but thats a fantastic day in relative terms.
  • jadenton, on 12/31/2007, -2/+5I'm hearing thousands dead from contacts currently in country. The "government" is sweeping through the slums killing anyone caught in their path.
  • FlyingSpaghetti, on 12/31/2007, -12/+4Buried. There isn't a single PC in Keyna that can run Crisis.
    /sarcasm
    • InspectorGadget, on 12/31/2007, -3/+4The PC tards are out in force digging you down, taking offense at anything that pokes fun at how backwards parts of the world are. Hey PC tards: If you can't laugh about tragedy, how the hell do you plan to cope with it?
      • canewediggit, on 12/31/2007, -2/+1he's like the 3rd person on the page to make the joke. pc or not, he gets buried.
        • adam1mc, on 01/01/2008, -0/+1You are a loser Cane.. I'm burying you.
  • mikemil828, on 12/31/2007, -7/+1Well come see police state, only in Kenya. Come to Kenya, we got police state! Forget Norway!
  • NuWinter920, on 12/31/2007, -7/+5The election of 2000 in the USA was just as rigged and Americans didn't riot. Perhaps that's why we're in the situation we're in.
    • bingobongony, on 12/31/2007, -4/+3Proof?
      I know that there is a lot of circumstatial evidence of the democrats trying, but I really didn't seen enough evidence to prove it.
    • ZenMojo, on 01/01/2008, -2/+2Proof? The destruction of evidence, the purging of legal voters from the rolls, and the Supreme Court intervening to prevent the counting of votes.
      All of these were in your local paper, so don't act like it's completely new to you.
    • solid12345, on 01/01/2008, -1/+1How about democrats giving cigarettes to bums to vote for Gore?

      Tired of this "holier than thou" attitude of the left.
  • Medusausi, on 12/31/2007, -2/+10What!!??!! You mean Kenyans didn't get on rambling tv talk shows or endlessly blog about it for months, they actually got out into the streets to protest a fraudulent election? Who'd have thought that was what democracy looked like?
  • slyzxx, on 12/31/2007, -0/+2its not about choosing a leader who is going to support their country , its about getting clans leading the country different clans are from different parties
  • coolkatz321, on 12/31/2007, -4/+3The EU has said that the results of the election are troubling. Am I the only one that sees a HUGE problem with the US urging Kenyans to accept the results and move on? It almost implies that we were somehow implicated in this monstrously fraudulent election.
    • captric, on 12/31/2007, -0/+5Oh right its the US fault again. I think the EU is mute because it is they who screwed the area up so bad in the first place. Remember the Belgium Congo? If not then you need some catching up to do on your regional history. Every country is Africa has been adversely affected by European conquest, meddling, arms supplies, and domination for hundreds of years!
      • megaloid, on 01/01/2008, -0/+4It's such a pity. Kenya is a natural jewel, with a nice climate and abundant natural resources. Were it not for their corrupt, parasitic political class, Kenya would be a very wealthy and peaceful country.
  • BambinosKrib, on 12/31/2007, -3/+3Video of the riot taken on a mobile
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0
  • kenyan, on 12/31/2007, -1/+243 is by far a modest "official" count. The actual counts are much, much higher as they usually are for crises in 3rd world countries.

    *Braces for a time when Americans care about their elections*
    • sandanista, on 12/31/2007, -0/+3The article said 43 when it was submitted. Unfortunately since then the death toll in that article has risen to over 100. I fear that the real death toll will be unknown for some time, if it is ever allowed to surface at all.
  • captric, on 12/31/2007, -2/+2Heck - this is nothing but a little SPAT! When the Hutu's and Tutsi's went at it they killed over a million people- mostly with machetes! Welcome to the most infinitely screwed up area of the world.
    • jefferygomer, on 12/31/2007, -0/+3There is no need to put this into a pissing match. Kenya, despite an insurmountable level of corruption, has been the most stable area in the whole region. Between the "fixed" election, the riots, and the government's order to stop all live TV, all the progress made in Kenya over the last 20 years is now gone.
      • captric, on 01/01/2008, -0/+1Sounds like a real oasis
        • jefferygomer, on 01/01/2008, -0/+1Like I said, this isn't any thing to start a pissing match over. I never said that Kenya was a great place, but compared to neighboring Somalia, Sudan, Ethiopia, Rwanda etc, it's been the country that has seen the most progress in peace, democracy, and stability - It has still been bad though.. I was merely pointing out that 24 hours, 20 years of that progress was lost and that comparing riots in Kenya to some mass murdering blood war between two clans was ridiculous - especially when painting the Hutu's and Tutsi's rivalry as the "bigger pinus" compared to the Kenyan situation.
    • weeble, on 01/01/2008, -0/+2I just spent 4 weeks working in Rwanda. It is definitely NOT the most screwed up country anymore. They have gone from a horrible state where as you pointed out, they were killing each other, to now just 14 years later where they have a stable peaceful country. It's clean, orderly, organized... the general infrastructure is working, traffic lights work, police are respected, foreign investment is booming, corruption is virtually zero, you can safely walk the streets at night.. the list goes on and on. Rwanda is a shining example of what can actually be accomplished with a little determination and some strong leaders who are actually more interested in building a successful country for the people instead of filling their bank accounts.
  • berrray, on 01/01/2008, -6/+0Crysis*
  • simba, on 01/01/2008, -2/+5Kenya is one of the most progressive country in Africa. President Kibaki lost this elections and is trying to force himself on kenyans. What he forgets is that the Kenya of today is not like the Kenya or Africa of the sixties where you would do such a thing and people just chill. Theres also a generation war with young well educated people wanting to take over from the old corrupt old guard.
    Election fraud was major. The president elected his cronies into the electoral commission unlike the former president who had an agreement with the opposition about the composure of the commission.The Electroral Commision Chairmans phone was hacked he couldnt make call to returning officers. Returning officers switched their phones of or disappeared with their results. So the chairman couldnt reach his officers. Crazy ha? And by the way this was peculiar to central and eastern province where the president has support.
    Results showed a voter turn out of 95% - 150% in the presidents area. I mean even if its stealing he stole in a very dumb way. Also guys this was probably the first youtube and web2.0 elections if Africa so use texting, sms, blogging, Cellphones, Websites,Billboards,huge networking was widespread soo its hard to cheat. Also nowadays everyone has a cellphone in kenya. Infact several trucks were caught transporting fake ballot boxes and people posted the plate numbers online.
    The elections were generally fine and civilized but he rigged buy delaying the return of results in his areas while watching the results from opposition areas then stupidly inflated his numbers. The did this by smuggling ballots boxes in at night because of the delays in central and eastern and such silly incidents like missing returning officers the results were stretched over 3 days. The president was losing by over a million votes then all over sudden he was just behing by 20000. So he basically inflated results in many areas wher there were delays by adding between 20000- 50000 votes at every constituency level. To be fare this president didnt even get 3 million votes. The worst part is now people are targeting folks from his tribe out of anger but this is wrong. Another thing 3 tribes supported him heavily the rest of Kenya supported Odinga and a few the other candidate kalonzo who lost badly.Kenya has 42 tribes.The worst part is Kibakis tribes are located in central Kenya so they are sorrounded by other tribes. Right now innocent kikuyus are being Killed which is wrong. Kenyas should kick this president out and not kill. I am not Kikuyu but i have many Kikuyu friends. So this is wrong. Kenyans are tired and are demanding Kibakis resignation. Raila Odinga won this election fairly.
    • Bossa, on 01/01/2008, -0/+2Kenya is a great country.
      I love it.
      But there's a lot of corruption yet.
      And politic seems very close to ethnics instead of ideas.
      Is more a ethical question then a political question!
    • simba, on 01/01/2008, -1/+0I deas are many but the old gurad is still in power infact 75% of the old gurad has been voted out in this election.
  • shadowmoose, on 01/01/2008, -4/+1Anyone else click this thinking it was about the video game?
    • kenyan, on 01/01/2008, -0/+2Do you only read the misspelled first three words in a title before clicking on it?
  • blankoboy, on 01/01/2008, -1/+1Foreshadowing much? This will be the same come Nov 2008 in the US I feel.
  • solid12345, on 01/01/2008, -3/+1Any proof this election was really rigged or is the opposition taking a play out of the democrat's playbook, if they lose an election it automatically must be rigged. John F Kennedy stole the election too but Nixon never whined and went to court.
    • jefferygomer, on 01/01/2008, -0/+2Oh my god. I'm a fairly conservative guy, but to try twist this into blame against the democrats is pretty dumb.
    • simba, on 01/01/2008, -1/+0Dude did you even read the above posts? Proof what? A voter turn out of between 95% -150% in zones where hes popular compared to between 55-70% in other areas.
      Fake ballots were found in numerous areas.
      Vote talling for example a returning officer counted 55000 votes and the electoral commission declared he got 100000 votes.
  • ipodman715, on 01/01/2008, -0/+1This violence should be over by the new year...

    I wish
  • porkstacker, on 01/01/2008, -1/+1Having a lot of family living in Nairobi, Eldoret, and Naivasha, I am of course worried about the outcome. According to all my brothers in law in Eldoret, things are looking a lot like Rwanda back in 1994--genodical in nature. So far two of their houses were burned to the ground by mobs. They did manage to get a police escort to the Eldoret airport and so their wives and children are safe in Naivaha. However, the three of them (my brothers in law) are still hiding out in Eldoret, and although they periodically update us here in the U.S. via cellphone, it has come to their attention that someone *ahem Odinga's henchmen* has outfitted some of the mob "leaders" with infrared night vision cameras and frequency scanners in order to track people still alive. Yes, these bastards set fire to a church in Eldoret, the end result being about 50 dead--bringing the dead toll thus far to around 260. complete contrast.... New Year's Day in Naivasha consisted of people happy, barbecuing, with really no idea of what is going on in Eld., and no B.S. attempts at "ethnic cleansing".

    Meanwhile I am waiting for someone to execute Raila for his mischeviousness. His nature is that of misleading the younger uneducated people into committing genocide against the Kikiyu people, and destroying their businesses and homes. Odinga's father was imprisoned many decades ago for attempting a coup, and Odinga himself was imprisoned for attempting a coup back in the 1980s. The man is in need of being assassinated for his bad deeds.

    Please don't let the major media outlets sway this story such that it makes Kibaki look like the bad guy.
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