What is Digg?Warning: The Content in this Article May be Inaccurate
Readers have reported that this story contains information that may not be accurate.104 Comments
- Aidenag, on 10/12/2007, -29/+76Who woulda thought, schools that teach religion over science are doing bad in the real world.... ah well more jobs for us :)
- onishenko, on 10/12/2007, -9/+36I wonder if it has to do with all the bad kids getting sent there in hopes to straighten them up? I know misbehaving kids where I live will often get sent to Christian school in hopes that they'll calm down. Ironically, all the rough kids get sent there then.
- tanxadillo, on 10/12/2007, -8/+34It's a private school. Private schools can do what ever they want.
- krewemaynard, on 10/12/2007, -7/+27"...nearly 7,000 public schools and more than 530 private schools..."
That's quite a disparity.
I know in my area, private schools blow the doors off the majority of public schools, *especially* the Christian schools. I wonder about the methodology of this study. - LR2_, on 10/12/2007, -2/+19To my knowlege questions like that aren't asked on standardized tests.
- roquetin, on 10/12/2007, -2/+19I've never seen those questions on a standardized test.
- elnerdo, on 10/12/2007, -11/+24They did BADLY on math tests. Obviously you two did badly on your adverb tests.
- elnerdo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13The parents of the students sued the researchers researching the Scientology schools for using the word Scientology in their report. The actual research regarding the Scientology schools was siezed by the Church of Scientology.
- zweben, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13They don't show up for the tests. They're too busy worshiping aliens.
- andrewr, on 10/12/2007, -9/+20That is an ignorant statement. Many of my friends are christians, now I may not agree with them on everything, regardless they are still some of the brightest people I know. So bashing them does not make you look a whole lot better.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10It's an inherent misunderstanding of WHY American students are so far behind the rest of the world, and you share that misunderstanding (along with Stossel).
I have begun my educational career in a European country, where I was a student until grade 5. I moved to America and attended school from grade 5 onward, until graduating from college. And here's the difference, since I have experienced both systems first hand: In America, they spent 5 months of my 7th grade math class to teach me fractions. In Europe, they spent 1 month in my 4th grade math class to teach me fractions.
In America, my experience with studying world history was extremely brief until 11th grade (we spent 1 week learning about ancient Egypt because it's "cool"). In Europe, world history was taught beginning with grade 2, and this education (along with local history) continued intensively until I immigrated (but I'd imagine it only intensifies further on at higher grade levels).
In America, the first time I was ever taught a foreign language was grade 6. In Europe, I was taught a foreign language from the 1st grade onward (which is completely acceptable, as young children grasp languages much faster than teenagers).
In summary, here's the difference, and it has nothing to do with the school environment or the teachers: The difference is INTENSITY and RATE of education. American schools spend a LOT of time on EACH subject area because they're afraid of leaving any of the child behind the rest of the class. In Europe, everything moves at a faster pace, and there's significant social stigma associated with children who under-perform. Children actually MOCK each other for getting low grades (as opposed to America, where some children are proud of low grades). This social stigma forces everyone to get in shape, do homework, and perform better on tests.
You might think that this creates many children who fail classes because they can't keep up, but you'd be wrong. In my school, I remember specifically only one or two people who got poor grades. Everyone else got good grades. Having good grades in school under this accelerated form of education was a NORMAL occurrence.
Oh, by the way, I'm all in favor of private schools (like Stossel and all Libertarians are) because I believe a private school is more likely to accelerate their educational techniques than a public school. See, in America, if a public school attempted to do this, parents would rise up and say, "My child isn't smart enough for this, he can't keep up!" But this would be ignoring the unmistakable fact that, in Europe and other foreign countries, this does NOT lead to under-performance in children. - tanxadillo, on 10/12/2007, -8/+16The article said Conservative Christian schools are doing as well as public schools. I'm fairly sure Catholic Jesuit schools are still performing on top.
- groceryheist, on 10/12/2007, -6/+14I wonder where the students at Scientology Schools fare.
- andrewr, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12Judging from your apparent spelling impediment, I would say you are one of the children that does need a better education. You would be the last person someone should listen to about education reform.
- scottc, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10@cathode
I don't know whether the article is accurate or not, but I got a good laugh out of your reason for calling it inaccurate! Just because you happen to know of a "very popular school" that is "probably in the top 3 of the best" that makes the article blatant propaganda? It's that kind of thinking (or lack thereof) that makes propaganda effective. - elnerdo, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11Wow, this article is hella-useless. They don't give us ANY numbers. I don't care if they did 'Significantly better' I want to know EXACTLY HOW MUCH BETTER, and I want to know how the study was carried out, so I can decide how much value this statement is to me.
Also, from what I can see, this study isn't comparing schools so much as it is comparing students. One thing that tends to happen a lot is that troubled students, who can't handle public school get put into private schools by their parents. These students cound very much skew the results. - TedTschopp, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10As hard as it may sound, as a Christian, I think I could answer both questions with a greater accuracy than most non-Christians on a standardized test. The idea here isn't about dogma (scientific or religious) its about understanding the basics of math, reading, etc.
- DanaG, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9So, a report prepared for the Department of Education (who is responsible for public schooling in the US) shows that public schools are as good a private schools in America.
I'm glad that settles that. I guess John Stossel was wrong ( http://youtube.com/watch?v=pfRUMmTs0ZA ).
Just don't ask why students in the US ranked 25th overall in the world. Everything's just fine, we're doing the best job we know how and we have the statistics to prove it.
What? Sarcasm? Me? - andrewr, on 10/12/2007, -5/+12Children in private schools, though it may be christian-based, still learn exactly what evolution is and the inner workings of the theory.
- andrewr, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9The whole study was about comparing how well public schools are performing to how well private schools are performing, because private schools are generally known as tougher. Now dont quote me on this but there are private schools other than christian ones, such as a college prep school or a boarding school. It is good to see the public schools doing a whole lot better, this may save parents alot of money rather than dishing out for a private school. Good story.
- Zippo, on 10/12/2007, -6/+12Yes, however, those subjects do apply to real life.
- chicken101, on 10/12/2007, -13/+19I don't imagine the do well on biology.
- joeysafe, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9Just a note. (From bugmenot.com)
USERNAME: poundinghooves
PASSWORD: nytimes - davidshq, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I attend two public schools, three private schools, and was homeschooled. This wasn't related to my choice or behavior, but rather to other things outside of my control. The first school I attended (public) only went through second grade. I then attended a private school (which went out of business). I then was homeschooled, attended for a short duration another private school (with whom my parents had a tiff). Was again homeschooled, went back to a private school (which I disliked and shut down the following year), back to homeschooling and finally to public school for my senior year (making a full circle). Anyways, in both homeschooling and private schooling mathematics was one of the weaker areas. This was b/c mathematics oftentimes requires explanation and oftentimes neither my parents nor the parents who served as teachers in the private schools had an advanced understanding of mathematics. Thus, the quality of mathematics education can vary greatly depending on school. I did attend one private school where they hired an excellent mathematics teacher, and while under her tutelage I excelled in mathematics, however overall my mathematics career was dismal. A random thought on the topic for what its worth. :-)
- jasqwerty, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Any of you read past the headline?
"In the real world, private school kids outperform public school kids," Mr. McTighe said. "That’s the real world, and the way things actually are." - milesmcgee, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8This story is pretty lame, it lacks any real facts at all, and is just blatant attempt to make a stab at Christianity. Whats the point? If you don't agree with it that's fine, but don't try to harass the ones who do believe in it.
No Digg - TubaTechno, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4"The exception was in eighth-grade reading, where the private school counterparts fared better. The report, which compared fourth- and eighth-grade reading and math scores in 2003 from nearly 7,000 public schools and ore than 530 private schools, found that fourth graders attending public school did significantly better in math than comparable fourth graders in private schools."
First of all the same size is stupid, second of all private schools did better in reading than the public schools, only math was under par...very bias title and survey. - dustinhoffman, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7Umm... I think the point is being missed here...
It's not that kids are being taught Christian values and therefore it conflicts with Math, Biology, and whatnot... There may be differing opinions... but not enough to make the curriculum irrelevant... Your success as a student is not based on your views of creation or evolution.. it may be in a few biology classes...
FTA:
"Students in private schools typically score higher than those in public schools, a finding confirmed in the study. The report then dug deeper to compare students of like racial, economic and social backgrounds. When it did that, the private school advantage disappeared in all areas except eighth-grade reading."
I'm guessing (sadly) that most of these schools have fewer minorities and that would certainly change the numbers to favor public schools as they will have a more diverse number of ethnicites.
I think that all students in the US should have a higher quality education... I don't understand how one moment everyone is talking about public schools are failing and the next they are better than Private Christian schools. I don't understand how the extract Lutheran Schools from Conservative schools either, The Lutheran Church Missouri Synod could be considered one of the most conservative churches.The problem here is the standpoint... are we talking about Conservative as in staying as close to the Bible as possible? Or conservative in the Political spectrum? While they may align on certain issues, I think that there are many differences in other aspects... The differences are how they should treat the issues.
They had to massage this article to come to the conclusions they did... if they just counted people as people and not separated them into minorities, you can see that the Private schools fared better. To be more constructive, they could have used the statistics on race, ethnicity and whatnot to try to propose a way to better education. We don't need to tear eacother down... we need to find where things aren't working, find out why and then do something to fix it... We should be working together and building eachother up...
NO DIGG - Zippo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4*shrugs* I've never actually taken an American standardized test or go to a private school... I'll take it I was wrong.
- CornStarch, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I went to a Christian School and I missed out on a lot of stuff I should have learned. Nothing worse than playing catchup in college but I'm doing pretty good luckily.
I have friends that had to do an extra year of High School because of that school. - TedTschopp, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Ummm.... Welll, that would hold true, but Lutheran's in general are pretty conservative. I think the definition of Conservative is better said as 'Non-Denominational Christian Acadamy" as opposed to a school attached to a local church.
- jjesusfreak01, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Interesting, so what it seems from that study, if it indeed claims that public schools and private schools score equally when only comparing those of like race and background, is that its the minorities bringing down the public schools. Thats besides the point.
What is annoying is that although these middle schoolers may score equally or higher than private school children, the figures (not this type of study) show that private school kids score better in high school exit exams across the board. Anywhere before high school the students are essentially getting the same education, and I am sure most of you would agree that everything changes in HS. - TheQwe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Studies have shown that US public schools are actually quite good at the elementary school level but it hits the fan when the kids get to high school. I'd be much more interested in a study comparing public and private high schools.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6@moondog
But which version of creation did he teach? There's your bias right there. - geronimo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Note this:
"The Education Department reported on Friday"
The most interesting news from the government miraculously appears on Friday. If you want to know what's really going on, just wait until Friday evening/saturday then read the news. - hawks5999, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6Hmmm... let's see. The Department of Education is funded by legislative/executive spending bills each year. If they are performing poorly, their funding is jeopardized. So they conduct a study that finds that they do just as well as privately funded schools. Sounds unbiased and fair.
How many people would digg up a report by the Department of Defense that says our military is performing better in Iraq than we did during World War II. - yoshihama, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4@ elnerdo
LOL. Unless you think dtfinch is schizophrenic, I think you meant "Obviously you TOO did badly" instead of "Obviously you TWO did badly". Something about glass houses and rocks comes to mind. ;-) - jasqwerty, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Too bad that private schools DO BETTER OVERALL, it's just when you try to find similiar demographics, and sample only people that aren't rich, white, or christian that you find this *****.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -8/+10"I think this approach is better than the instructor teaching there beliefs...let the students decide."
Evolution = Science. Religion = Philosophy. Teach each one in their appropriate subject, and everything will be fine. Do not combine the two in the same subject when they are not compatible. Science is all about falsifiability, facts, and theories (you know, like the theory of gravity, the theory that the Earth revolves around the Sun, and the theory of natural selection). Creationism is about a VERY SPECIFIC RELIGION (people like you ignore this fact) that is NOT shared by all people who believe in God. American Creationism IGNORES the creation beliefs of religions other than Judeo-Christianity. So why should Judeo-Christianity be the ONLY creation story that is explained to students (and if you happen to agree with me, why should it be the #1 creation story?)
Another point to make is that not everything in the world should be allowed for students to decide on their own. If I say the American colonies declared their independence in 1776, it is NOT up to the students to decide whether it's 1776 or, as some hypothetical moron might suggest, 1941. I don't give a damn what you believe, there's TRUTH and there's NON-TRUTH, and you better ***** learn the truth and accept it. Students, unless they've completed post-graduate work in the area and explored ALL facets of the field, are not in any position to be allowed free reign over what they do or do not believe in school. The only exceptions are things that are NOT rooted in facts and science (i.e. PHILOSOPHY, where religion is taught).
Your logic is inherently flawed. I sure as ***** am glad that my high school history class did not give equal time to the Holocaust and Holocaust deniers, and yet that is PRECISELY what your incorrect logic leads to. You are an ignorant individual, and it greatly saddens me that it's fools like you who attempt to set educational policies in this country while completely ignoring the recommendations of the educators themselves. - w0mbat, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3How likely are you to get an unbiased opinion on this subject?
- sh0k, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I wouldn't doubt it, I myself went to a Christian school my 11th grade year, and it was basically a repeat of 9th grade.
- Quintessence, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I went to a Lutheran elementary school and then a non-denominational Christian junior high and high school. Of course it is hard for me to compare how well my elementary experience truly was in an academic sense, but I can say that somehow along the way I have been able to obtain all the good things which schooling should provide. College (CSUN), which is definitely not conservative, well at least not for me it is not, is proving to actually be easier in some ways than some things in high school even though I am in a special program that allows me to get my BA in English and my teaching credentials in only four years by doing them simultaneously.
I think that the real problem is the whole teaching process, NOT whether it is a private or public school. The methods employed are somewhat archaic and sometimes do not engage the students as they have in the past. There need to be different methods enacted. I only hope that I will be able to this in about three and a half years. - Exhumator, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I dugg it down because it's foolish comment, not because I missed the sarcasm.
- jasqwerty, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Or maybe you're just blinded by your irrational hate?
Look towards the middle guy... - echo1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1i totally agree with ilyag, the problem is that revamping the educational structure of the schooling system would be so increadibly hard not only in implementation but in it's ability to last. could you imagine 30 years down the road when today's kids have children in a newer, more competitive educational system? think about the failure that could result there when a kid is in a more 'intense' educational system with parents who floated by on c's and d's in today's system. i understand the need for a change but i hope they can find a way to implement it right
- johndi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Your questions seem smugly rhetorical and presumptuous that I do know about creation. Where we come from is an idle pursuit for most people. I really don't think either need to be taught in school.
The original statement appears to be bigoted. I was fishing. There is a good reason to know both sides, and I was trying to see if he would figure it out. - fatdog789, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Why is this marked as inaccurate, it is an accurate description of the article, which itself accurately describes the conclusions of the report.
I guess the CC on Digg just don't like hearing that the schools they pay through the nose aren't any better than the public high schools that you can get for free. - ogletree, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1You can make a study like this say whatever you want. Just pick the worst schools for the one you want to look bad.
- jerbaker, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1You are an idiot. If the schools are performing poorly they have a sound basis for requesting more money, not less. The military (to use your example) used to do this during the Cold War all the time. They would issue annual reports that showed how advanced the Soviet military was and how they had the lead in almost every weapons system. That kept Congress paranoid and the money flowing.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3With God on your side, who needs to study?
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