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- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+81This has been going on for quite some time. China has already admitted it to be true.
I'm sure it's either for the "greater good" or for "the children". Those two causes seem to allow anything to be deemed as acceptable regardless of how reprehensible the act may be. Welcome to communism/socialism kiddies! Amazing how they can find a donor match in less than 5 days...assuming you have the cash. Somewhat reminiscent of the movie The Island. - yonoz, on 10/12/2007, -8/+74It's not false. It gained much publicity here in Israel after a TV report uncovered it, and some center for medical ethics did a thorough investigation. There were some 250 cases during the past few years in which patients requested a transplant and were told a matching donor has been found less than a fortnight after their request - statistically highly unlikely.
You can't punish people for doing whatever they can to prevent their deaths. - dabestdefense, on 10/12/2007, -9/+65That is really scary. That is the worst ***** I have heard out of China ever. I hope they find it to be false.
- iomegaboy, on 10/12/2007, -3/+56Well in a communist nation, there is no private property!
- DS513, on 10/12/2007, -2/+39I bet my right kidney that the US won't do ***** about this.
We'd rather tune out human rights abuses and pretend we're the GREAT MORAL FORCE then to actually get involved.
For those of you that disagree: Darfur, anyone? - BigKitty, on 10/12/2007, -7/+40I also hope they find it to be false, but if it's true, the only way to shut it down is through a worldwide storm of criticism and condemnation. If people who knowingly receive stolen transplanted organs were to face charges upon return to their home countries, the entire racket would collapse.
- SkeletaLlama, on 10/12/2007, -0/+27The next step is Soylent Green.
- Lixie, on 10/12/2007, -1/+23Now if only being 'convicted' in Chinese court meant actually being guilty of committing a crime.
- aikahanyou, on 10/12/2007, -1/+18@JoCliMe: it's the collecting organs from *live* inmates that's got everyone upset.
- DyDx, on 10/12/2007, -2/+18@aikahanyou: Read what JoClime said more carefully. JoClime is suggesting making death row inmates braindead and then harvesting them of their organs while they still are alive. This is one of the most ***** up things I've ever heard.
@JoClime: Are you kidding? That's incredibly sick and offensive. Do you realize the # of people who have been sentenced to death only for evidence to later be found proving that they are in fact innocent?
Can you imagine?
Lawyer: Hey! We found evidence that your son is guilty! But unfortunately, the government gave him a lobotomy a few years ago so he couldn't complain when they took his kidney and part of his liver for transplants.
You need mental help if you seriously think this is a good idea. There's a reason there's a "No cruel and unusual punishment" clause in our Constitution (not that the Constitution means much anymore). JEBUS CHRIST! - danakin, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16In China, "convicted criminal" has an entirely different meaning than it does in the States or UK.
- ThinkBox, on 10/12/2007, -5/+20@ DS513
People complain when the U.S. polices the world, and then they complain when they don't.
Most people don't realize that a lot of the reason behind all the starving Africans is all about the government. War Lords and dictators with authority given to them by certain tribes use hunger and AIDS as their weapons. They only way to heal that place is to remove the government, dismember all supporting tribes and install a government solely from the formerly oppressed. This "solution" is horrible, but, from many professional strategic opinions, it seems to be the only way. Sending food will not help, it rots on the docks where it arrives, held there by evil men. Regime change is the answer to a question that no country can successfully ask. Its too tricky and too involved. These wars and slavery issues have been in Africa long before the white man drew lines in the sand.
Sorry to go so off topic, but I just don't like it when people see world problems and say - "yeah, and the U.S.A. isn't gonna do ANYTHING about it" - problems are never as clear as a 2 page news story can explain. If you want your country to do something, then stop buying Chinese products, call your senator and start a local -- community effort to change things. Get news coverage. YOU have more say than you realize - and Americans have given up their voice to multimillion dollar lobbyist groups.
-- someone is always speaking for you if you aren't speaking up for yourself - remember that. You don't say what's on your mind to your representatives, then a big corporation or movement has people paid to whisper into their ears in your stead. Your representatives need your vote to stay in power, not a corporation's cash. Just open your minds, mouths, and hearts. Instead of sitting on your asses.
/rant. - whiledo, on 03/25/2009, -1/+12@yonoz
"You can't punish people for doing whatever they can to prevent their deaths."
Yes you can. The only time acting to protect yourself is a legal defense is when the plaintiff is somehow taking action against you. Try robbing a bank and pleading "not guilty by reason of needing money to pay for medical treatment." - aikahanyou, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12It's true. I heard about this last summer, when a large activist group staged a rally in front of the Vancouver Art Gallery (the "it" place to protest around here) for this cause. They had a lot of graphic photographs right on the street and binders full of case reports of the Canadian tourists getting Chinese organ transplants mentioned in the article. It was a very disturbing day--I think the police eventually made them take down those photos because they were upsetting people.
- steepdecline, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Reading this really rips my heart out.
- sroberson, on 10/12/2007, -5/+14It's also because Falun Gong practitioners have committed no crime- other than not believing what CCP wants them to believe. Falun Gong teaches Truth-Compassion-Tolerance. For this, they are jailed. When jailed, many are kept in prisons next to hospitals while the doctors gleefully extort their ability to offer "fresh" organs to foreign purchasers. (http://organharvestinvestigation.net)
- alrokerisfat, on 10/12/2007, -12/+21who here has been to China?
who here has been to a military hospital?
really wow there are so many of you
Let me tell you a little about my experiences in a rural military hospital in China
I was in Sichuan hiking and I got sick near the Ganzi prefecture which is mainly Tibetan. I decided that I couldnt wait and called an international travel service and was told that the first time I could get in to see a doctor in Chengdu would be 3 days. I didnt want to wait. I decided to look for a hospital. Luckily I speak chinese and well the first hospital I found was a Chinese military hospital. I was the only westerner there, everyone else seemed to be either family of military people or military people.
This was the most efficient hospital experiecne of my life. I was in and out in under 50 minutes. I went in and asked a nurse for help, she filled out forms and gave me a fake military id number so I could be seen. I was taken to a dr and I waited in line behind 6 other people. there were two drs at desks examining patients. After about 15 minutes I saw a dr. I told him what was wrong - he prescribed the medicine and then I went to the hospitals pharmacy - I bought the medicine he prescribed - total cost of seeing the dr and the medicine was under $4....
Communism sucks so bad that to see a dr costs $4....
Every person I spoke to there was so supprised when I told them that in the US such a civilized country it would cost at least $300 for a visit to the hospital.... WTF is wrong with that these people have cheap health care and we dont....
Listen I dont condone what china is doing at all, but to be honnest I am so sick and tired of the media and the common american thinking that China is some backwards ass place... Its entirely not true... Yes this is a horrible horrible story but while we were developing we had slaves... Why do we think China will develop without the same bumps in the road that we went through?
Anyone who wont visit China because of this is a moron - shadowstorm, on 10/12/2007, -5/+13@dabestdefense: unfortunately, it's true.
@bigkitty: people won't care to face charges if they're terminally ill. - nixonrichard, on 10/12/2007, -15/+23This is how China rolls.
I have to say, before people defend Falun Dafa as an innocent group of peace-loving practitioners, realize it is more of a cult than Scientology. They might try to pass it off a just a type of stretching or exercising, like yoga or something, but it isn't. It is a very powerful, very controlling cult. China persecutes these people because they don't just stick to exercises on a mat, they are extremely organized and often form large, disruptive, political demonstrations. This is fine in the US, but not in China. China doesn't have the freedom to assemble, they don't have free speech, and they certainly don't have the freedom to be members of Falun Dafa. Falun Dafa isn't innocent, neither is China. - ThinkBox, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8@ DS513
The UN will do NOTHING against China - China is ON the UN Human Rights Council!
The US cannot act alone against such a gigantic world power - It needs other countries help - and It needs the UN.
I have been to China on a very select prestigious scholarly trip where I met and interacted with several security chiefs. And was personally lectured by the man in charge of Internet filtering - that's right, the guy told Google how to do business.
The stats and numbers coming out of China are in NO way verifiable. Nothing is allowed to defame the government's name that they don't personally control. Any video and real statistics you have seen 100% cost some people their lives to deli ever. I could talk for hours about these details I learned first hand. If you want more info (like what their filtering rational is, or their official views on religion) I can give you insight that wikis can'. just email me - it should be posted in my profile. - dudemanbro, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Harvest his human horn!
- greenreefer, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9That is a really sick comment.
But I laughed.
truth is
This story is like the worst kind of Hollywood movie.
It is hard to imagine this level of evil, as a routine affair.
I guess the laughter and joking is a way of coping with the unthinkable.
that is real evil though, no doubt. i really hope it is not true. - ThinkBox, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8@ goodoldharris
some things are called "journalism" - see its when complex research, study of numbers, and first hand investigation takes place. If everything was just pure links and sources.... then the internet would only run in circles. The buck stops somewhere, and I wouldnt put this past China for a SECOND.
I wouldn't be surprised if someone died for this news to reach our ears. - 3dom, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9Scary *****. Reminds me of Unit 731 - what the japanese got up to in WWII was far less publicised (noone outside the operation knew the extent of it it until the 80s) and possibly even more inhumane and bizarre than what went on in the nazi camps. i.e. germ warfare, flamethrowers, live vivisection, infesting victims with plague cholera botulism and smallpox then sawing their limbs off and reattaching them on the opposite side to see what happened. Really ***** up stuff, however most of the officials got away with it by bribing russian/US authorities with the data they had collected. wouldnt suprise me if the chinese were doing this with their prisoners right now, hell it's probably even going on in the west.
- ericdano, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Good thing Jack Bauer got out of there!
- CatsAreGods, on 10/12/2007, -7/+13Did it occur to you that these "convicted criminals" wouldn't be criminals anywhere else? The "Falun Gong sect" that China is always busting people for belonging to is essentially nothing more than Qi Gong exercises. But anything that makes people feel more personally empowered is anathema to the Communist Chinese government.
They're far worse than Soviet Russia used to be. - taxman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Yes, i think logically but its not from an American point of view. Just because its the law of the land ,its doesn't make it right. Guantanamo bay, tracing phone conversations,waging war could all be justified by law somehow but that doesn't make it right...Remember laws are written by us and they have to keep up with the times. What was considered as legal some years like racism in some countries can no longer be tolerated in any country. Some of the basic human right should be respected in all countries. Saudi Arabia arrests girls who wears mini skirts, as expressing their freedom, in the name of religion.........china does the same to people who protest, to express their freedom, in the name of country.
Every country has its own culture,opinion and form laws which may be drastically different from each other...but basic human rights should be respected,no matter who the person is or what crime has been committed. - mirunit, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Well first of all you went into a military hospital. Its in China's best intrest to keep the military happy - and considering there army is like 1.5 million troops, compared to the 1 billion total population that would explain why the service is good. As for drug cost, alot of drug development happens in the USA, and its not cheap. Country's such as China have no qualms about producing illegal copy's of the drugs. If you have insurance in America then the hospital visit really is not that expensive, and in America you get to CHOOSE your healthcare provider - most reputable companies offer multiple choices and good healthcare plans. I also don't feel like paying absorbent amounts of taxes to help pay for people who have done things to themselves and require aid - such as drinking (liver), smoking (lungs), or stuff like that. I also don't like the idea that communism follows a dictatorship pattern over the people, which makes since as Marx mandated that, but it is still terrible to have no elections and rely on the government for everything. Maybe its fun for you to live in ignorance, while relying on the government for absolutely everything - thats not fun for me.
- ianaaji, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Looks like the person who made that site just learned about iframes *shudder*
- taxman, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7so organizing a protest "within minutes" puts 50% of the fault on falun dong while harvesting their organs while they are still alive and not to add putting them in prison in the 1st place,earns china the same 50%? I am also sure that you put 50% of the blame for the tinnamen square massacre on the ppl who gathered there.You are either a brainwashed chinese or someone with a twisted view of what most humans consider normal in this age.
In most countries, its the people who do such inhuman stuff to others, but in China ,its the government. - Aaryn015, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Did you live under power lines as a child?
- Rekutyn, on 10/12/2007, -6/+10This has been the status quo for a long time, there's no falsification of it.
Humorous, but likely true:
How do you think Dick Cheney has survived so many heart attacks? - ShrimpCrackers, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Stuff like this happens and people, especially the Chinese, wonder why the democratic peoples of Taiwan don't want to unify with China. It also makes you wonder why so many of our politicians support China wholeheartedly.
Its also amazing the number of Chinese Communist Apologists throughout the world. There's a whole crew at Brown University.
There you'll find posts angry against the United States, Blacks, Jews, as well as reports against fellow students who happen to be "race traitors" from students of one of the top universities in the USA. There is also lots and lots of Mao Worshipping:
http://www.brownchina.org/bbs/thread.php?fid=9
And then there is the huge Child Labor industry in China posted by Shanghaiist. In it is a photoblog run by a 15 year old whom left his family to work in a factory:
http://www.shanghaiist.com/archives/2007/02/01/child_labor_a_p.php
And China's leader vowing to "purify" their internet:
http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=technologyNews&storyid=2007-01-24T171156Z_01_PEK95705_RTRUKOC_0_US-CHINA-INTERNET-HU.xml
Every week we read about all the crazy stuff that China's government does to its own people as well as its neighbors. Even so they are considered a close ally and friend although on their end they bash us all the time. - Sl4sher, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5What won't the Chinese export?
- ShrimpCrackers, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Except you can go to jail for lots of things in China. There was a time that "stealing" satellite can potentially garner a death penalty. Then there are the mysterio provincial 'verbal' laws. Just because it isn't written doesn't mean you don't have to pay for it.
- fasda, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5So you think we should harvest organs from inmates in the prisons of your country too? Or do you believe that this is some sort of media conspiracy to cause outrage against a country that the US would not fight even before the wars in the middle east, and is a chief trading partner necessary for manufacturing? And I would not put it past China since they a terrible human rights history so stop being so paranoid.
- DyDx, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8wow my Lawyer was completely supposed to say "innocent" and not guilty. I hope no one noticed.
- NanoStuff, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Define private property. Private until it's in the government's interest to take it away from you. That's certainly not exclusive to China.
- lordmetroid, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@nixonrichard, I recent your comment and have many falun dafa friends and it is nothing like Scientology. They aren't dangerous and they aren't doing anything more than have their believes and practising their moves. They are even helping the community for free being involved in festivities and are harmless nice to everyone. No signs of it being a cult, just strong commitment.
It's not like the Chinese government is against falun dafa specifically. They are against everyone who does not conform. Of course there are people to be protesting. Would Christians not protest if the government tried to kill them in every opportunity? - JavertHolmes, on 10/12/2007, -8/+11"I am so sick and tired of the media and the common american thinking that China is some backwards ass place"
If harvesting organs from wrongfully-accused prisoners to sell them on the cheap to foreign people wanting organ transplants isn't "backwards ass" to you then what is? What would it take to finally declare China as being "backwards ass?"
You can be as beautiful as New Zealand, have the most Utopian political structure imaginable, have a rich economy, a fantastic history, great art galleries, museums, low pollution. If you're harvesting organs from the prison population, most of which shouldn't be in prison, you're still a "backwards ass" place in my book. - sroberson, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3The authors posted an updated report today.
http://organharvestinvestigation.net - bblinx, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3this is not a question about china in general -- it is a question of particular practices that should be condemned. The efficiency of one hospital does not excuse the crimes of the other.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3This is really happening, I saw a documentary on it. It's shocking to say the least.
- anachronaut, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@RRJackson:
"Like, we know that Bush and his neocon pals wanted to invade Iraq long before September 11, but we liked hearing the story about how Iraq was a terrorist state and needed to be invaded because they posed a dire threat to our interests. We loved hearing that we were bringing freedom to the Iraqi people."
Speak for yourself, *****. There are plenty of us out here who didn't "love hearing" any of that, and who are deeply sickened and disgusted by the whole charade and have been since [before] it started. It's mainly the people who did ignore or buy into that ridiculous ***** that are the true root of most of the problems in this country. You know, selfish ***** who, deep down, really don't care what happens to anyone else as long as they and their interests are doing OK. People like you, in other words, if I were to judge you by your comments in this thread. - undersky, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Note to self: don't go to China.
- eurocrisp, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4>> It's a good movie too.
no it isn't - benijuana, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3this story broke 9 months ago, yet for some reason never blew up. i guess its just so horrible everyone assumed it to be false. good to see it on digg, if it hasn't been already
- RobRobRob, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5RRJackson - "We've got a huge prison population here. Might as well adapt to the times. It might serve as a deterrent if you thought committing a crime could get you sent to a chop shop."
Dude, you're scaring me. - cyranthus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4dont go to jail in china
- Aaryn015, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3You lived under a house???
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