What is Digg?240 Comments
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -28/+170It doesn't matter what country you're in. Once government steps in and takes over the market, the whole system goes to ***** in a very short period of time. Socialism can not and will not ever be a viable form of government. Nor will communism. I don't know why this concept is so difficult to understand since neither form of government has ever withstood the test of time. Both forms of government only make the rich richer and the poor poorer. Take a look at what socialism is doing to the US. The middle class is disappearing before our eyes!
- playerslight, on 10/12/2007, -6/+127“The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.” --Winston Churchhill.
- RadiantBeing, on 10/12/2007, -7/+83The market is an unimaginably complex nonlinear system but that doesn't stop arrogant people from thinking they can control its chaos. This happens again and again throughout history and the result is always the same. Government price fixing is as absurd as hard-coding the human heart to beat at one fixed rate. It is awful to see what is happening to the people of Venezuela. How will the poor eat when prices rise because of government meddling? How will they get jobs when production stops due to the slowdown in consumption? How will their economy grow as college graduates and the middle and upper classes flee the country? They were promised a utopia and now they're getting hell. This is only the beginning.
- sundancekid503, on 10/12/2007, -12/+65Chavez hasn't figured out how to blame this on the US yet?? He's losing his touch...
- kylesellers, on 10/12/2007, -19/+72This is a perfect case study in the dangers of socialism.
@andydumi
socialism doesn't work in education--our schools are failing--or in healthcare--Canadian healthcare is terrible (all their good doctors come here, and bypass surgeries are considered optional!) - ezweave, on 10/12/2007, -5/+46I know from former Venezuelans that because of the fixed (very cheap... like $.20 a gallon) gas prices, most gas stations quickly fold.
It seems like they are on the verge of economic collapse. - VIrus9, on 10/12/2007, -11/+50So, I wonder how long it'll be before he blames this on an American plot.
- quine, on 10/12/2007, -8/+45@futureb
"Once more I was able to convince myself how criminal the capitalistic octopuses are. On a picture of our old and bewailed comrade Stalin, I swore not to rest before these capitalistic octopuses are destroyed." http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Che_Guevara
"Early researchers of the number killed by Stalin's regime were forced to rely largely upon anecdotal evidence, and their estimates range from a low of 3 million to as high as 60 million...it appears that a minimum of around 10 million surplus deaths (4 million by repression and 6 million from famine) are attributable to the regime..." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -16/+43I disagree. A Constitutional Republic is an exceptional form of government. We in the US were given one and told "if we could keep it". We have proven that we could not. This is a viable form of government assuming there aren't wolves lurking behind every corner looking to move it towards a "democracy" which our FF detested. Government is not inherently a bad thing. Government that decides to "rule" is where the problem lies.
If and that's a HUGE if, our government were still run as designed, we would be the envy of the world. Since our government has bastardized and turned into the tyrannical behemoth we see today, we are despised...and rightly so.
If we are ever so unfortunate to see a tactical or any other nuke go off in this country, We the People can only hope it's in Washington DC. At least then there's a chance of restoring our Republic to the framework our FF gave everything they had to give us. Continuing with the status quo ensures the ultimate destruction of what was and should be the greatest nation on Earth. - aceg1357, on 10/12/2007, -8/+34Ahhh a land where everyone is equal.....equally poor that is.
- catalysis, on 10/12/2007, -7/+33He doesn't even have to say it at this point. He has conditioned the people to believe that every hardship is a result of the US.
- playerslight, on 10/12/2007, -7/+33@Mu99ins: Unions dehumanize employees and turn them into assets. From a managerial perspective, a manager is not permitted to view employees as individuals possessing varying quantities of skill, motivation, and intelligence. Jobs must be set up for a homogeneous group of employees, which usually means a job must meet the lowest common denominator. Compensation cannot be allocated based on an individuals contribution to the firm, but instead must be doled out equally amongst employees. Since the employees are treated like idiots, they lose the incentive to contribute anything more than is absolutely required under the contract.
If unions were the answer GM and Ford would be the envy of every other corporation in the world. Instead they are the laughingstock.
@tophert: The only time government can be viewed as an efficient method of regulation is if you fail to incorporate the cost of operation. It has to be one of the most incredibly expensive methods of maintaining market control, and the costs of utilizing it often exceed the 'social' gains made by eliminating the original problem. - raitchison, on 10/12/2007, -6/+32This is common sense, you can't regulate a market to this degree, and you certainly can't regulate the demand side without regulating the supply side.
We saw similar problems in California a few years ago that lead to an artificial "power crisis", they deregulated the supply side of the electricity market but left the demand (consumer) side regulated, the result was suppliers gouging utility companies by creating shortages and increasing prices several THOUSAND percent. The consumer didn't feel that much pain (other than the rolling blackouts) because their electricity bill did not go from $100 to $10,000 in a few months. - playerslight, on 10/12/2007, -4/+29@TubaTechno:
Just because you found some capitalists does not necessarily mean you found people who totally agree with the execution of capitalism in North America. I am a die-hard capitalist, but I have little use for the concept of a limited liability corporation, for example.
No matter what complaints people have about capitalism, however, its true power can be shown by how it still works when shackled by political ineptitude, natural disasters, human failings, and virtually every conceivable negative influence. It might not work perfectly, but it never stops in its drive to efficiently allocate goods and services. - TubaTechno, on 10/12/2007, -13/+38Finally!!! I found some capitalists!!!
- Corrosionx, on 10/12/2007, -3/+25@andydumi:
Well in Canada we have both, and let me tell you, socialism doesn't work for _anything_. - markgl, on 10/12/2007, -9/+31Yeah capitalism allows one to make it in the world. You can be at the bottom and work your way as far as you want to go. Example, Oprah, Bill Clinton, etc, etc. In a socialistic or communistic society, every one stays the same and you can't go no where because everyone is to be equal. So you can work as hard as you can and the guy next to you can sit at home and scratch his backside and watch TV all day but in the end everyone is afforded the same share. Yeah, that sounds great! Not.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -18/+39Sheehan is missing out on great photo op. She could be down there by that empty meat counter handing out USDA Grade A steaks.
- Wind8reaker, on 10/12/2007, -3/+21No actually they didn't "de-regulate" the market, they re-regulated it and ***** it up beyond all recognition.... If they'd gotten completely out there wouldn't have been those issues. . . .
- mrlost117, on 10/12/2007, -8/+25^^^ thats probably the worst example ever given.... ever
- Loonacy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+18I once heard that if you cannot learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it.
- IkeMavent, on 10/12/2007, -8/+22This time communism is different! Why? Because this time it's in Venezuela!
- geronimo, on 10/12/2007, -5/+19Is that why the republicans have grown the government(dollars & # of employed) and deficits since 2000? How about practicing small government vs preaching it.
- zephc, on 10/12/2007, -3/+16Cuba 2: Electric Boogaloo
- argoff, on 10/12/2007, -7/+20@Mu99ins,
First off, the real thing killing the middle class is the government and the fed playing with the money supply. In real costs, $20 back then is about $600 now. Second off, why in the world would anybody want to put a factory in China? Answer, labor costs. It's certainly not because of capital, protection of property, and economic freedom. Open up the immigration floodgates, kill the minimum wage, and kill the welfare state to keep them from leeching - the US would not only restore it's gutted infrastructure and blue collar labor base, but a middle class service boom would follow, as millions and millions and millions of people took advantage of freedoms that they never had before to create wealth and prosperity that never existed before. - PKBabaSoGud, on 10/12/2007, -8/+19Chavez is a hack.
All democratically-elected dictators gain power by appealing to the mob (generally, the lowest of the low in society) and make impossible promises that only the uneducated would believe. Their policies fail, but it doesn't matter until things really go to *****. Oh well. - jackminardi, on 10/12/2007, -4/+14These comments are reverse what all other digg stories are. Usually the smart people (libertarians/capitalists/non-liberals) are dugg down and are the majority.
I like this. - Rikkochet, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11Are you serious? The middle class has only been around in substantial numbers for perhaps a hundred years. Historically there has always been a ruling class riding the shoulders of a powerless and ignorant lower class.
Only with the emergence of industrial agriculture have we had an opportunity to stop being farmers and allowed to advance new areas that became lucrative.
This is an unprecented period in human history when the people *not* growing food aren't just tradesmen, clergy, and nobility.
The middle class is essentially brand spanking new and it's got about as much going for its longevity as things like communism.
We might still be *****, guys. - postaboy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12Hey, I learned that in Econ 200. I wish everybody would take time to understand economics becuase this is really basic stuff. If only this was a mandatory subject to be studied in high school, maybe then we wouldn't have so many dumbasses that want rises in minimum wages.
- GabrielS, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12Hmm, do we really need to have a debate when it costs $2.41 per pound to put the meat on the shelf, but the grocer can only charge $1.81 to take it off the shelf? Do you get it? To sell the meat at $1.81 is to lose 60 cents for every pound you sell. The shortage is the result of grocers taking the meat off the shelves because they cannot be asked to fix the selling price if their buying price isn't fixed as well.
Venezuela has chosen the hard way to learn how state controlled economies lead to ruin.
Of course, later in the article you read that Chavez is just going to import beef from Bolivia. Chavez is using his own people as pawns in order to build a stronger relationship with Bolivia to bolster his little anti-capitalist agenda.
Can two sinking ships work together to keep one afloat? - Buelldozer, on 10/12/2007, -5/+14You are high. They were asking meat vendors to sell to the public at BELOW their cost. That's called "selling for a loss" sonny boy, and no business can do it for long before they're no longer IN business.
It could be much the same with the sugar part of the story that you brought up, you don't know because they don't tell you. What can be logically inferred though is that they wanted the sugar sellers to sell at a loss as well. This is a logical conclusion because we know they were asking the meat sellers to do it.
Now, when you're done sucking Hugo's ***** wipe his spooge off your face and return to "logical thinking" and "reading comprehension" class.
Thank you. - Rodzirra, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11"Socialism can not and will not ever be a viable form of government. Nor will communism. I don't know why this concept is so difficult to understand since neither form of government has ever withstood the test of time."
Make that NO government has ever withstood the test of time. Even the "great" ones crumble. - HMTKSteve, on 10/12/2007, -15/+24Is anyone honestly surprised at this result?
It's no different than when you go to sell some of your old video games to buy new video games and the wife tells you she wants half the money you get on the sale. What do you do? Why you keep the old video games and just pay cash for new ones! - Corrosionx, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11What is it gonna take before you realize socialism cannot work EVER? More dead people?
- TopherT, on 10/12/2007, -17/+26Government is not the evil you boys seem to think it is. Government is very good at regulating certain aspects of the market. Consumer rights, monopoly regulation, the environment, monetary policy, etc etc, would never be addressed was it not for the rule of law set down by government. This being said I figured that any national leader would have learned, especially in South America that price fixing only reduces the supply of goods as it becomes less profitable or unprofitable to sell for many stores. I wouldn't be surprised if there were a significant underground market with ridiculous prices sprouting up as we speak.
- ru1dt, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10I don't think you should be.
Power is sought after by the corruptible or the idealistic. Who else would want to tell so many other people what to do? - ManicBliss, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10Who is John Galt?
- TheBeaver, on 10/12/2007, -7/+15Were In ur grocery store fixing ur pricez!!!1
Commipwned. - jeffiek, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10"in four years the government has barely raised the price of beef, which now stands at $1.82 per pound. Simply getting beef to retailers now costs $2.41 per pound without including any markup, he said."
I need to educate myself to realize that selling below cost is NOT how an economy works?
Can I have some of what you're smoking? - gsiliceo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Run while you can venezuelans! before your dictator closes the borders like it happened in Cuba.
- zephc, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Anyone governing needs to do so with a light touch.
"A leader is best when people barely know he exists, when his work is done, his aim fulfilled, they will say: we did it ourselves." - Lao Tzu - GabrielS, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10Did you attend American public schools?
/fingers crossed
Please say no. - outoforder, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11Communism is a scam that poses as the savior to mankind but actually enslaves the masses to serve a small minority.
The state != God - HarryBauzonia, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11Achalemoipas
A business that doesn't profit dies.
If the meat suppliers sell at a loss and go out of business, there will be NO more meat supplied.
It's simpletons like you who voted for Chavez and caused this problem. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11"If we are ever so unfortunate to see a tactical or any other nuke go off in this country, We the People can only hope it's in Washington DC."
While I fully agree with you, at least give me a *****' heads up so I can split town before the boom! ;) - Wisgary, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10I think you mean
Cuba II: This time it's personal
or
Cuba II: The revenge - jeffiek, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10"Largely because the capitalists think nothing of dropping a bomb or three thousand on anyone who dares to try and introduce a model that, by it's very nature, must control the excesses of capitalism."
Hello? Name one capitalist that drops bombs. It's the GOVERNMENT that drops the bombs. Capitalists wouldn't even think of it. War is far too expensive. Politicians order the bombs dropped, the cost doesn't matter to them. They don't have to pay anything at all, they get the money from taxes.
"Paul Allen steps onto his $200m yacht for tonight, thousands of people will depart this mortal coil from starvation."
Hello? Paul Allen is an American. America doesn't have thousands starving. They're in the NON-capitalist countries. - wdoyle0447, on 10/12/2007, -10/+16Someone said "Socialism could work for some things, like education and health care, but not in every aspect of the economy/country."
Its not working in the U.S. for healthcare either. What happens when someone can't afford treatment? Either the government pays or the rest of the people pay (in higher healthcare costs). There is no way the hospitals won't profit. They for sure get their money, ProfitsForSure (tm).
Higher prices = lower income families can't pay, the cycle repeats and gets worse.
How is this not healthcare that is truly socialism under the hood? - GabrielS, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8@HarryBauzonia
He's not a simpleton. He very well could be Chavez's economic adviser.
Chavez has a remarkable number of allies on the faculty of American Universities. They truly BELIEVE in the way of Chavez. They think it can work.
Chavez proponents are not simpltons. They're not idiots. They're quite intelligent, but their BELIEFS are disproven almost every single day in this world. Every day, a Marxist idea fails when tested in real world conditions. The Marxist defends himself by claiming, from his pulpit of ass-tard-dom, that everything else is Capitalist except that which was created by the Marxist, therefore, until everything is Marxist, the system truly cannot be tested. - digitalArtform, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8I agree, but our system right now is heading toward Oligarchy
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