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115 Comments
- inactive, on 03/03/2009, -5/+142Supposed to reset, But it didn't. Pay the lady.
- synthsrkl, on 03/03/2009, -1/+63The house always wins, always
- DaviDTC, on 03/03/2009, -3/+49I was supposed to not bet on that hand. Give me my money back!
- sigmaman2, on 03/03/2009, -3/+48"Malfunction voids all pays and plays."
The system didn't reset the display, so that's technically a malfunction, so her play and her payout are void. She stole fizzy lifting drinks and she bumped into the ceiling, which now has to be washed and sterilized, so she gets NOTHING!
YOU LOSE!
GOOD DAY SIR!! - Wolfie351, on 03/03/2009, -0/+34Regardless of fault, when will casinos learn that bad press is worse than paying out?
- Codeworks, on 03/03/2009, -1/+31Is this really a surprise?
- inactive, on 03/03/2009, -3/+23Dugg down for stating facts contrary to what I want to happen here. HOW DARE YOU!
- DrBrianFields, on 03/03/2009, -0/+19I'm surprised that they don't have like... an insurance policy on machine faults or something. I'm not familiar with the gaming commission regulations, but it seems like they'd have to pay out if the machine says it's a win.
- Skurt, on 03/03/2009, -9/+25All slot machines say if there is a malfunction, they don't pay...
She gets 20,000 and sucks as it may, she should be happy that they don't say it was a total malfunction and not get anything.
Now it will cost her 50,000 in lawyers fees and 42,000 in taxes and will end up owing money instead of getting 20,000 from that Casino and getting 8,000 after taxes. - Suspected, on 03/03/2009, -2/+18Those of you arguing that malfunctions are not the casino's fault are not realizing one important fact: she was playing a progressive slot machine. What this means, is that she gambled her money on the chance to win 80 grand, not 20 grand. The casino cannot legally advertise a false jackpot, because everyone playing at that time was doing so due to the high stakes. If it said she won 800 grand, when she was expecting a max payout of 80 grand, then that would be a malfunction.
- whorunbartertwn, on 03/03/2009, -4/+17I think the gaming laws support the casino here, a payout or payout amount that is erroneous because of a malfunction doesn't pay out.
- malanic, on 03/03/2009, -1/+11So what happens when a machine malfunctions and doesn't pay?
Oh that's right, that's not a malfunction. House wins. - depro9, on 03/03/2009, -2/+11Don't give your money to crooks.
- Duggan360, on 03/03/2009, -7/+16What *****, It wasn't her fault the machine didn't reset, That's the casino's fault so they should just pay her
- tgc1, on 03/03/2009, -5/+14The machine was supposed to reset? But it didn't? Guess what, not her problem. Pay the woman. She gave the casino money for a bet, she won. If it were the other way around the casino would have taken her money. Pay her.
- dtfinch, on 03/03/2009, -1/+10Though there should be a cap on accidental payouts, so that a broken slot machine can't do serious harm to a small casino, forcing them to pay out on affordable mistakes such as this one would give them incentive to not let it happen so often, nevermind the disclaimers. If it were up to me. They law probably won't agree.
She put her money in the machine because they advertised that the jackpot was still $86k. Either they're liable for the full amount or they're liable for fraud. It's one or the other. - LJSeinfeld, on 03/04/2009, -0/+9Worse press: They cheat *little old ladies* out of their winnings. Seeing as the median age is about 80 in the average casino, this should cause a disturbance in the force.
- whiteboyrob, on 03/03/2009, -0/+8the more obvious question is when will people learn that casinos never lose?
- monkeyrun, on 03/04/2009, -0/+7Last time I check, there should be no logic behind slot machines.
If the machine says she won $86k, she won $86k. - inactive, on 03/03/2009, -3/+8you may want to learn about contingency lawyers
- pagit, on 03/04/2009, -0/+5it's a scam -she is actually creating a diversion with the other winner of the jackpot while Danny Ocean and his crew are robbing the casino
Harrah's casino is one of Terry Benedict's places. - jbmcb, on 03/04/2009, -0/+5> The system didn't reset the display, so that's technically a malfunction, so her play and her payout are void.
I don't think it works that way. The slot machines themselves were fine. Her win, while odds-defying, was valid. The amount they were advertising was available to win, however, was wrong.
It would be the same as advertising that you were giving away a million dollars on a sign outside the casino even after the prize was given away. If you say that you can win a certain amount of money, you have to pay it out if somebody wins. I'm not sure if it's fraud, but it's close. - PhillyMJS, on 03/03/2009, -1/+6There's no such thing as an "affordable" mistake in an Atlantic City casino right now. They were already in trouble with slots parlors opening in Delaware and Pennsylvania and taking business away, but now that the economy has gone *****-up it's even worse. They need every cent they can get.
Having said that, they definitely ought to pay that woman. They should never have fought her to begin with, because the last thing they need right now is bad press that might keep away the people who are still gambling. For a casino I can't imagine much worse press than "they don't pay out when you win." - xtc46, on 03/04/2009, -0/+5the bank erro and the slot machine are differnt. When you deposite 100k into a bank account, you do so with no expectation of getting more when it gets processed. When you stick money in a slot machine, your expectation is you can win money. In fact, not only is it an expectation, it is the sole purpose of the transaction.
But i do agree, that as long as they can prove the other pay out, she should get 20k and be happy. - inactive, on 03/04/2009, -0/+4As an end user, there is little to indicate that there is a "malfunction". As an end user of a system that says I won an amount emblazened onto a giant LED display, then I won damn it!!
I think they should pay. It isn't the lady's problem that there was a "malfunction" that didn't reset the display/jackpot amount.
The casinos are hurting? Publicity like this will hurt more, that being if you win you get nothing. - Gareth321, on 03/04/2009, -0/+4I don't think it's fraud unless it's intentional. However, the system and machine were set up as an advertising system. If a retailer advertises a product for X price [whether by mistake or unknown fault], there are laws in many countries that the retailer has to then honour this amount. That is the section of law this could easily be argued under. The retailer is free to try to pass on that debt to the person that originally created the ad [possibly the company that services the machines], but this is independent of transaction between the player and casino.
If the casino wanted to try and claim that malfunction voids all pays and plays, I would also query what they're doing to compensate all the players that lost money during that period [as the machines were malfunctioning]. I would then argue that the machines could have been malfunctioning since their last service - or even since they were installed. If such an easy miscalculation could be made, what other miscalculations happened? Anything from jackpots not winning in specified odds [there is a minimum win rate by law - usually] to the jackpot amount increasing too slowly could be argued. The casino claiming that their machines malfunctioned opens them up to potentially far more litigation by every patron of that casino. - Ymeg, on 03/04/2009, -1/+5The casino clearly states that the malfunctioning machine's pay-offs are not valid.
- zuiquan, on 03/04/2009, -0/+4I take it you don't spend much time in casinos if you doubt the ability of old ladies to piss away money in slots.
- skellener, on 03/04/2009, -1/+5Whatever happened to the customer is always right? If it said she won the jackpot, she should get it. No ifs, ands or buts. The casino should take the money they lost due to a malfunctioning machine out of the machines manufacturer. Besides, all that stuff has got to be insured over errors like this.
Just her the ***** money! - funkyloki, on 03/03/2009, -0/+4...to a different casino.
- WEIL3R, on 03/04/2009, -0/+4I've seen it reported that 80-90% of casino goers expect to lose money...they just go there for the entertainment value.
Not sure what's so entertaining about watching yourself lose money, but... - jtucker, on 03/04/2009, -0/+4You are exactly right. The exact text is "Malfunction voids all pay and plays."
I program slots and technically it's not the Casino's fault. It lies on the manufacturer of the game. However, that does not change the fact that that disclaimer is in the machine. She is fully entitled to the reset value, but not the progressive win. - deathandtaverns, on 03/03/2009, -0/+3If it were the other way around, and they were caught resetting the jackpot without someone winning, would they have a class action lawsuit on their hands?
- mnemy, on 03/03/2009, -1/+4If they can prove someone else did win the jackpot 3 minutes earlier i dont think she has a case. I'm sure they have written rules documenting the immediate roleback of jackpot pots upon someone winning the jackpot. Then they'd be able to point to their official casino policies.
On the other hand, if they don't have official rules available to customers concerning this particular scenario, then she'll probably win. - PopcornDave, on 03/03/2009, -1/+4As often as this is reported? Probably never. She's just lucky she wasn't at a casino on an Indian reservation. She wouldn't have had any jurisdiction to sue.
- trucanadian, on 03/03/2009, -6/+9The title you posted in both inaccurate and biased. It is not clear that the woman actually won 86000. She is claiming she did. The casino is claiming a glitch. Do no make conclusions without any evidence until the trial is over.
Buried - inactive, on 03/04/2009, -1/+4I couldn't say it any better myself.
- mikelieman, on 03/04/2009, -1/+4I'd figure the last thing a casino wanted was a reputation for welching on their bets.
- mikelieman, on 03/04/2009, -1/+4You'd figure people would test ***** that could cost them 60 grand if it ***** up.
- rjb696, on 03/04/2009, -0/+2She wons legitely? Are you ***** retarded? Thats the second post of yours that said that.
- jbmcb, on 03/04/2009, -0/+2> "Malfunction Void All Pays"
That's on the slot machine. If you have a giant sign above the slot machines saying "A jackpot wins you $100,000" when a machine hits legitimately, how much do you have to pay that player? - rodrigorules, on 03/05/2009, -0/+2Since she was betting on implied odds of payout 60k+, she can argue her "EXPECTED winnings" was much lower per play of X dollars in each slot machine because of false advertising.
for ex. betting 1 dollar on a coin flip to win +$.90 is different from betting to win +$.95......in the long run with 200 people playing this game, there is a substantial difference.
casino owes her 20k + X *(how many times she played that night) , and I think no more - immatellyouwhat, on 03/03/2009, -1/+3DiNero would have left her in the Desert.
- Technopundit, on 03/04/2009, -0/+2Every machine is plainly marked "Machine malfunction voids all plays."
Technically, I don't think they had to pay anything.
Crummy deal, but it's true. - Ymeg, on 03/04/2009, -1/+3They clearly state that they will not pay when their machines malfunction. It's their money and she is not entitled to that they prohibit.
- jamspt, on 03/04/2009, -0/+2Can you imagine how f***ed the banks would be if they operated like slot machines?
"Put your money here. There's a strong chance that we'll take it and it'll disappear!"
Oh wait, that is what has been happening lately... - ZeNiTH456, on 03/04/2009, -0/+2I've read other stories about this and she says when she sat down the progressive prize was at $86k. When she won the progressive it paid her $20k. Nobody has said if the display showed $86k at the time of the jackpot or not. I wouldn't be surprised if it had been reset prior to her winning game.
There have been other cases similar to this where progressives have been won within seconds of each other. They always side with the casino in these cases and pay the person who won the progressive first. - DaviDTC, on 03/03/2009, -2/+4So it voided the play... that would mean she wouldn't even win the reset jackpot amount?
It would also all the people that played during this void time be eligible to get their money back (assuming they lost). - emjaymj, on 03/04/2009, -0/+2Disclaimers, just like waivers, are not legally binding.per se.
- jbmcb, on 03/04/2009, -1/+3The slot machine wasn't malfunctioning - she won legitimately, the amount they were advertising was wrong. I think they're going to have to prove that it was malfunctioning as well, and it wasn't just that somebody forgot to push the "reset" button on the sign, or that somebody forgot to register the slot on the network so it could automatically reset the sign.
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