What is Digg?Warning: The Content in this Article May be Inaccurate
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- SmokedL, on 10/12/2007, -11/+33@MyHappyClam
"They need to stay in the countries they love so much to support and leave us alone!"
The irony is almost too much. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so tragic. - Odweaver, on 10/12/2007, -4/+19I turned off Politics, and Political opinion, so I wouldn't have to see George Bush's name every fifth story, then people start posting them under world news. If you are going to post another George W. story, please post it under politics or political opinion.
- moman, on 10/12/2007, -4/+18I am so sick of people stating all muslims are anti-american. I COME FROM A MUSLIM FAMILY AND I THINK AMERICA IS THE GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!
Why you might ask? Not because America is flawless. (far from it actually). But as Bill Clinton said "there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be fixed with what is right with America".
And before all of you start accusing me of being a liberal hound (because I quoted Bill Clinton), I would like to state that I am infact a conservative but donot support the current administration/ the ruling party in congress. Know why? Because CONSERVATIVES BELIEVE IN A MINIMALISTIC GOVERMENT, and a TRUE CONSERVATIVE WOULD OPPOSE CRAP LIKE WIRE TAPPING CITIZENS AND TELLING LIE AFER LIE TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. Simply put, the current ruling party is only conservative in name. - maffiou, on 10/12/2007, -4/+17Mr Ramadan is definitely a controversial figure, especially in France.
I'm not completely sure though that this is the best way of dealing with him as this gives him a lot of media coverage which he thrives on and will certainly exploit to vilify the US even more. - TheBarge, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13I like how the title reads "Bush Administration using US Immigration/Visa to Silence Scholars." I think it should read "Scholar" since the article is about ONE guy. It's not like prominent scholars around the world are being blocked entrance to the US.
- jutl, on 10/12/2007, -5/+13I can see your point, but speaking as a European I think it's sad to see Americans becoming less and less open to dialogue. One result of making critics of America stay out of America (and having a media who is loathe to report their criticisms) is that the issues become more polarised and no-one has a clear, fair idea of where their 'opponents' stand. The US has been a beacon of the power of reason to overcome hate, but it fulfills that function less when it closes itself off to dissenting views. Please don't misunderstand: it's you right to do so. I just wish that you didn't feel you needed to do so.
- riffer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8@ drlha
There has been a downward trend in foreign student enrollment usually attributed to heightened visa requirements. A google search reveals plenty of articles on the subject. Here are a couple:
http://yaledailynews.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=30898
http://www.workpermit.com/news/2006_09_21/us/universities_losing_foreign_students.htm - rhawk301, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8@MyHappyClam
What exactly are "un-American" views?
1. Do you feel anxious when people criticize or dissent against the United States? Because it is actually the duty of American citizens to make sure its government keeps on track.
2. Do you feel that free speech, and expression should be limited? Perhaps into free-speech zones, or in private? Being American is to fight to the death in protecting someones freedom of speech which you are violently opposed to.
Read the rest here:
http://rhawk301.blogspot.com/2006/08/americans-and-anti-americans.html
As a country we need to be vigilant and stop this mamby-pamby attitude. We need to take the hard line and tell our government they need to get their act together, or they are through. By invoking the right of revolution, we can vote all these people out and vote in new people. Use our right, and declare term limits on all incumbents. - Moly, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10The fact that the ACLU is complaining that the organizations are "charities" differs from what APPEARS to be the wider view of governments worldwide who claim that these organizations support Hizbulah and Hamas, both of which are terrorist organizations.
- jutl, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8I'm not sure I understand... The only opinion I've expressed here is that dialogue is good. Do you disagree?
- jutl, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7It's a perception based largely upon comparing US and UK media coverage of world events wherever possible. It's true that the most readily available US-based TV news here in the UK consists of Fox and CNN, and you could argue that they are not representative. Still, if one assumes that they are, the impression one gains by comparing them to (say) BBC News 24 and the (Murdoch-owned) Sky News is that they cater for an audience who do not want to listen to outside voices. The BBC may be internationalist to a fault, but that makes a strong and scary contrast with the US news sources. Also, I understand that Fox and CNN Europe are altered versions of their domestic counterparts, adapted to contain more foreign news and views. That part really scares me.
- halavais, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I think your are correct here: I don't see this as a trend.
In a more general sense, though, the heightened visa requirements and fingerprinting has meant that fewer scholars are able or interested in visiting the US. Likewise, fewer foreign students are attending our universities. If you want to spread the ideas that we hold dear to the rest of the world, one of the cheapest and most effective ways of doing that is by inviting students and scholars into the country to experience it for themselves. - drlha, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Funny, you don't see many "mud huts" in Oxford.
- moracity, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7So it's now a violation of someone's "civil rights" to deny them a Visa because they belong to or fund a designated terrorist organization? This is ridiculous.
The US can deny a visa to ANYONE for ANY reason. PERIOD. No person on this planet has a CIVIL RIGHT to be in ANY country except those born there. Countries are free to discriminate at their leisure, as they should be allowed to.
If we had used this type of scrutiny prior to 9/11,our population would be +3000 right now. Iraq STILL would have happened because it had nothing to do with 9/11 and everything to do with Saddam violating UN resolutions. Bush made a bad move by trying to tie Iraq to 9/11 because it just ending up confusing people who don't actually pay attention to what's going in the world for themselves...relying instead on bozos in the entertainment industry to provide their political views for them. - lutefish, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5He's a Professor at Oxford - hardly a place known as a hotbed of dissent and radicalism. For example, consider his opinion piece in Canada's Globe and Mail (google cache here: http://tinyurl.com/qvzs8 ) where, in talking about the reaction of some Muslims to the Pope's speech, condemning both the uprisings, and the social conditions that produce them, "Second, what we are witnessing is mass protest characterized by an uncontrollable outpouring of emotion that, in the process, ends up providing living proof that Muslims cannot engage in reasonable debate, and that verbal aggression and violence are more the rule than the exception." He's an educator, who condemned both the 9/11 attacks and the London July 7th bombings, and called on fellow Muslims to condemn them. His visa was revoked in 2004, when he was supposed to take up a position at Notre Dame. More credit _to_ Notre Dame, a Catholic university, for inviting a prominent Muslim scholar to teach there, to open its doors to a scholar to share different religious and intellectual persepctives in dialogue with its faculty and students.
- bs101, on 10/12/2007, -14/+17hmm, less popular?? then why is his approval ratings going up. Oh, and by the way, his approval rating started going back up before oil prices started coming down, contrary to other posts.
- eclairons, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3The most unfortunate part of this is that Tariq Ramadan could be one of our greatest allies. He is a strong supporter of Muslims living in the West integrating into society rather than segregating themselves. He has spent a great deal of time attempting to explain to Muslims why they shouldn't reject Western values just because they reject Western leaders. He has also expressed disagreement with the US, but then, it seems so do most diggers. :-). You can read more on him at http://www.time.com/time/innovators/spirituality/profile_ramadan.html
although that's just the tip of the iceberg. Besides, this is America, we can accept some dissenting views without it ruining society, right? We're supposed to be good enough that it doesn't matter if someone disagrees. Fear of listening to the other side seems to me that you're afraid they might just show you how wrong you are.
oh. and @ antitorgo.
Ahmadinejad speaks Farsi, not Arabic. Iranians are Persian, not Arab. - zombo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3An interview with the man in question....
http://www.prospect-magazine.co.uk/article_details.php?id=7571
Heres a quote from his website:
"On September 21, 2006, after two years of waiting, an explanation at last arrived. The letter I received from the American embassy, though it refuses my visa application, puts an end to the rumours and baseless allegations that have circulated since my original visa was revoked. After two years of investigation, the State Department cites no evidence of “suspicious relationships”, of meetings with terrorists, of encouraging or advocating terrorism, or of so-called “doublespeak”. Instead, the State Department cites my having donated about 600 Euros to two humanitarian organizations (in fact a French organisation and its Swiss chapter) serving the Palestinian people. I should note that this was not something that the State Department’s investigation revealed. To the contrary, as the State Department acknowledges, it was I myself who brought these donations to the State Department’s attention. The U.S. government apparently believes that the organizations to which I gave small amounts of money have in turn given money to Hamas. But the organizations to which I donated are not deemed suspect in Europe, where I live. I donated to these organizations for the same reason that countless Europeans - and Americans, for that matter - donate to Palestinian causes: not to provide funding for terrorism, but because I wanted to provide humanitarian aid to people who are desperately in need of it. "
He seems like a perfectly reasonable man, but you can never be sure how much is "Taqiya" can you? - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -7/+9Wow. The lack of intellect on the right side of digg users is staggering. Idiotic wouldn't even begin to desrcibe many of you. It's like watching Germans root for Hitler.
"When was the last time any Islamic nutjob had anything to say that was worth listening to?"
I'm certain that for every islamic nutjob, there is an equal counterpart in the Bush administration. Or for that matter, in churches all over the USA.
The thing about free speech is that it isn't really all that free. Oh I'm sure many of you don't mind the "free speech" zones that are miles away from the "president" and I'm sure you also applaud when Cindy Sheehan gets arrested before Bush's state of the union address for no reason other than wearing a t-shirt.
Free speech my ass. You children have no concept of free speech. But you certainly know what stupid is. - Moonpig, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4'I think it could possibly be a perception on your part based on what you're seeing on television and reading in the papers. Last time I was in the UK, the friends I spoke with had a very warped (I thought) view of the US. We aren't insulated, I assure you. Please visit and stay for awhile and you'll see.'
Having lived in the states for eight years I can assure you that you are insulated. Perhaps you thought your UK friends views warped because you hadn't heard an unbiased perspective before. Try living in another country for a while, absorbing their media and their perspectives. You'll find it interesting how different it is from the American world view. - DCMacHead, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2About time. We've already tried the conciliatory approach to dealing with Muslims and evidently it doesn't work. Until they can learn to get along with others, keep them the ***** out of our country.
- Desslok, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2My point isn't that they let him speak, its that they got rid of their president for daring to disagree with the vast majority of the Harvard community. It's a bizarre double standard where one has free speech only so long as said speech agrees with the powers that be. This status isn't held by the US government alone, it's also practiced by those who claim the gov't. is stifling free speech.
Even here at Digg it's done by yelling at each other, calling people lefties or neocons, or just digging comments down that have no negative content except that the majority of Diggers strongly disagree with the comment. - drlha, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Thanks riffer.
- jutl, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6Yes, I agree that this isn't universal, but (again speaking as someone outside the US) insularity of the US has seemed to increase radically since the 2001 attacks. If you don't agree that this is the case then I can see where we differ. I just believe that the US need not respond to closed-mindedness in its critics with closed-mindedness of its own. The Declaration of Independence didn't just say: "Screw the British", it raised the entire level of political dialogue and gave birth to many similar struggles for political ideals all over the world. If the current conflicts that the US is involved in are genuinely about spreading American values, then I just feel that that should include a willingness to engage openly with dissenting opinion, even where that opinion might not extend you the same courtesy.
- itanshi, on 10/12/2007, -5/+7i hope your are being sarcastic, because i am liberal and i find both sides retarded
- drlha, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3A "Nobel" Cause! Haha. Is that like a "moo point"?
- sweetnjguy29, on 10/12/2007, -5/+7This dude should not be allowed in the USA. His maternal grandfather, Hassan al Banna and his father, Said Ramadan, were both deeply involved with the terrorist organization the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. In fact, his grandfather founded this terrorist organization which has sprouted most of the major terrorist players who planned 9/11 and other massive attacks today. "Professor" Ramadan's views are very suspect considering his background and upbringing. (By the way, I consider myself a liberal, and applaud keeping these truly subversive elements out of the country)
- samdu, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5The ACLU certainly backs some goofy causes. But, much like the NRA (which does the same), they're a necessity. Both protect the rights of people that not many others would see fit to protect. The ACLU has their NAMBLA thing and the NRA has cop killer bullets. Neither whacko position renders their good work moot.
- geronimo, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3I'm still waiting for the administration to furnish a list of palestinian humanitarian aid agencies they approve of.
- halavais, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5I think anyone who thinks that Civil Liberties are not the bedrock of American culture and what makes America great should take "American" out of their name.
- aceg1357, on 10/12/2007, -5/+6Yawn- yet another bush conspiracy theory by someone with bush derangement syndrome
this guy has done much worse than the article lets on. google it for yourself.
this guy should not be able to come into the country and teach his hate. if it was a white nazi would anybody question the decision not to let him in the country? - gimpbully, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2so your basis for marking this article as Inaccurate is purely anecdotal and doesn't even relate to the article except for mentioning immigration? Kay, just checkin.
- cruzlee, on 10/12/2007, -13/+14The Bush administration seem to be eager to have as much negative publicity as they can. I am amazed by everything I hear. Has there ever been a less popular president? Are there still people who have trust in his integrity?
Oh, does anybody have a list of all these mistakes / lies / errors made by George W.M.D. Bush? - drlha, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3I'm not sure why people are so against Ahmadinejad speaking at Harvard. Personally I disagree with almost everything he stands for (as far as I know, as only the bad things tend to get covered in the press) but I would certainly be interested in hearing him speak, as I would any world leader. After all he isn't some nutjob terrorist, he's the leader of a country.
Why do people feel the need to repress everything they don't agree with? I can listen to Ahmadinejad and make my own mind up thank you. I would hope that most Americans could do the same thing. - kolobcreek, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2PROPAGANDA
- DesScorp, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4Saying that Bush and Company are "silencing scholarship" for denying Visas to people that have ties to real terrorist groups (Hello, Hamas) is incredibly, incredibly lame. Bush Derangement Syndrome taken to new heights...
- gimpbully, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2where are you getting this?...
- gimpbully, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1maybe I'm missing where my assertion that you're opinions and anecdotes lead to an inaccurate headline. Just saying something is inaccurate doesn't mean it is... Maybe I'm missing something...
- cruzlee, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I can only say what I see. I am not a U.S. citizen. I am a european. I promise you: nobody here likes what the U.S. have become since GWB. I don't want to go into a long list of things, but the neverfound wmd's, oilwars, torture, hidden prisons, pressbribes and the outrageous censorship of people opposing the war 5 years ago are probably some of the many reasons why Bush is starting to lose much more than the love of the muslim world. There is no intellectual person here in Holland who thinks Bush is good for this world.
I am therefore very interested in the political atmosphere IN the U.S. How strong is the cry for impeachment? Noone here would mourn over it... - Moonpig, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3There are plenty of white nazi's in the states already.
- wary, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Good points....the ACLU must have too much free time on their hands. This "scholar" is not an American citizen or even in the US. WTF is the ACLU getting involved for? Anything for attention I guess.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Idiots. Let them all in. I'm sure it will be President Bush's fault when the left gets what they want. Idiots.
- geekee, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Or you could just RTFA and find out why the visa was rejected
"The Bush administration contends the French and Swiss groups, which the ACLU said are legitimate charities, gave funds to Hamas and invoked a law allowing it to exclude individuals whom it believes have supported terrorism."
Nice broad generalization based on one data point. Nice how aaaz conveniently left out the Hamas and supporting terrorism parts. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Dude, quit posting that ***** corny ass link in all the comments, nobody wants to go to your stupid little page, idiot.
Usually when you get totally dugg down every time, it means people don't like you spamming up the comments. I hope you get hacked. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1If it takes them 6 months to get their heads out of their ass to process a simple law, there is no way in hell they can instantly know that they need to deny someone a visa (A visitors visa is a non-immigrant visa numbnuts) unless there is obvious and immediate reason to do so.
And also gimppy the headline is inaccurate by your sumation.
Damn you guys are the most idiotic people in the world! I seriously wonder if slashdot is better now that you have left and all come here. - Antitorgo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1"After all he isn't some nutjob terrorist, he's the leader of a country."
Did you not know that he was one of the central figures of the '79 US Embassy hostage crisis? I guess that since he is a "former terrorist" and now the leader of a country that makes him just peachy.
Do yourself a favor and start a little reading of Ahmadinejad's speeches to his own people say (what he says in Arabic not English). He definitely knows how to cater to his audience, and why people don't pick up on the blaring differences in his opinions between audiences confounds me. - Desslok, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2The guy is not being silenced, he's being denied permission to enter the US. That doesn't include some kind of international gag law preventing him from speakng anywhere else.
For those claiming that the US government's conservatives are crushing free and open dialogue, let's take a wider view. Look at the "enlightened" bastion of freedom and ideas, Harvard University. These so-called free thinkers booted their president because he dared to suggest something that didn't fit their world view, that perhaps women were not as smart as men in the areas of science and technology; as potentially contentious as it was, they didn't want to listen and shut him out. A few months later they welcome with open arms the former president of Iran, a country ruled by a single religion that crushes the rights of women, but since the guy shares an agenda against the current administration, he's a-ok in their book.
Are you Diggers who are supporting this scholar's entry into US the same guys who supported Harvard's decisions? I'm not accusing, since I don't know who did what, I just want you to think about it.
(And interestingly enough, if this comment is dugg down it should pretty much prove that the US government isn't the only ones trying gag free speech, it's also those who rail against the govt) - zelig, on 10/12/2007, -6/+6@weefs-Cindy Sheehan? Are you kidding? She's right next door to Bush's house in Texas! Screams about him all day long. Can't get more free than that.
"Germans rooting for Hitler"? You might just be a tad partisan yourself. - Evildudetx, on 10/12/2007, -12/+11They're not silencing this A-hole....they are mearly keeping him from using a soapbox in America.
If you want to complain about US policy and you're not an American citizen, do it from your own country. - batmanjr, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3It's cool for any race/sex/creed to say whatever they want, about whatever they want. That is unless you are a white christian male, then you can't say anything without being a racist, sexist, bigot.
So yeah, this guy can say whatever message of hate and dissent that he wishes and we will just roll over and say that it is his right to do so.
And my question is, how does not letting this guy into the country silence the scholar? In this day and age, anyone with a computer and internet access cannot be silenced. -
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