What is Digg?497 Comments
- Hellman109, on 11/10/2008, -9/+428Hopefully a museum buys them to show the world what plans should never be made.
I wonder how the holocost deniers will cover this one, fakes? By Gas Chamber they meant super fun happy slide chamber? - inactive, on 04/03/2009, -7/+290This had to be a chilling find.
- Tanktunker, on 11/10/2008, -6/+205...they will say they were forged.
Duh. - ILikePants, on 11/10/2008, -6/+183According to Wiki (I hate to cite Wikipedia, but I just don't have the time to verify other sources), 40 million _civilians_ died in WW2. A disproportionate number of them were Jews. Jews get the "spotlight" because the Germans and their friends systematically murdered 90% of European Jewry. Remember that Jews were NOT military casualties. The 22 million military casualties are also terrible, but it's ***** war. War kills soldiers. Sometimes, civilians get hurt too. In this case, the Germans targeted and systematically murdered--let me say it again--90% of European Jews. It wasn't just a casualty of war, it was ***** genocide and the culmination of thousands of years of antisemitism.
- Millsee, on 11/10/2008, -6/+131Erm, the holocaust happened, I'm pretty sure that ruins of buildings, photos of mass graves and oh yes, that massive loss of human life is some form of evidence... What else would people want as evidence? You can't really say 6 million went "missing".
Seriously, some people are so ridiculous. - Chairboy, on 11/10/2008, -13/+82Holocaust denyers (like the people who don't believe we went to the moon or 9/11 troofers) will go to extremes to believe the conspiracy. They will make up things, they'll harass and intimidate, they'll assume that the entire world is a lie.
Finding a set of blueprints... will not change their mind. - JFitzpatrick, on 11/10/2008, -3/+69Settle what question? WTF are you talking about?
I've stood in the gas chambers of Auschwitz and in the crematoriums of Dachau. Do you think the German government built them as god damn tourist attractions? Have you never met an old Jew with a serial number tattooed on their arm? Do you think they did that to themselves? For that matter do you think that MILLIONS of Allied soldiers simply hallucinated the horror of the war?
For ***** sake man, how can anyone be -that- stupid? - jacquesm, on 11/10/2008, -14/+77The big difference is the Jews were civilians, not combat personel. They were ruthlessly exterminated.
That said it does not give Israel any rights whatsoever in doing unspeakable things to others. - fstoner, on 11/10/2008, -5/+65Uhm let me get this gay erh straight. You are saying: "I have a question about the holocaust that I'll preface by saying it doesn't make much of a difference whether or not it took place." I disagree and think it does make a difference because the holocaust took place. And before you wonder I am German and I am sad to say Germany is probably the only place where a organised enough to orchestrate a genocide on such a scale.
But let me not digress. Next point: "Has anybody thought to exhume a random sample of these bodies and perform on them autopsies. So as to settle this question once and for all?" You might be aware that many killed Jews got burned and as for your call to autopsy remains, what question is there to settle!? There is video footage of German soldiers killing Jews, the camps are still around - unless you think its all some kind of Disney World complex.
Another 10min wasted, but it had to be said.... - inactive, on 11/10/2008, -2/+61actually the most chilling factor of the holocaust is how efficiently it was planned
the evil that lurks in the minds and hearts of man is the deepest cause for grief that exists - NapoleoneDos, on 11/10/2008, -90/+145I have a question about the holocaust that I'll preface by saying it doesn't make much of a difference whether or not it took place. A determined man lead a people into a war that brought hell awfully close to heaven and as a result a lot of people died, were disfigured and or traumatized; including people of Jewish faith.
Sixty million people died in WWII, not just six million Jews. Let's not diminish their loss, but also let's not forget the suffering bestowed by that war on the rest of humanity.
The selective spotlight on the suffering of the Jewish people is something I don't understand. Especially when we've seen similar human viciousness in our time and simply turn a blind eye. And whether or not it can be proven a single Jew or six million of them were specifically targeted for death by Hitler, his hatred for these people is a matter of record; and his persecution of these is as well. Fighting over the final figure seems petty to me.
Finally, my question is this. Has anybody thought to exhume a random sample of these bodies and perform on them autopsies. So as to settle this question once and for all? - DigitalisAkujin, on 11/10/2008, -5/+56Please don't compare mass murder with indefinite detention. While both might be evil the latter is infinitely more humane then the former. Making light of that fact is disrespectful to all the victims of the Holocaust.
- shig, on 11/10/2008, -1/+51They will say that any camp needed a gas chamber for delousing new arrivals with Zyklon B delousing agent, and a crematorium to dispose of any dead bodies due to disease concerns.
Of course, they've always maintained these arguments. - Lula87, on 11/10/2008, -8/+57It's hard to imagine but there are still thousands upon thousands of people who have doubts about the holocaust. Hearing those people hits me hard because my ancestors struggled and survived WWII. I hope this new evidence silences a few of the holocaust deniers from making their obnoxious misinformation.
- diggopolous, on 11/10/2008, -2/+51Undeniable evidence? Yes, you would think so, but never underestimate the power of denial my friend.
- Avaseal, on 11/10/2008, -2/+50@Footpirata: What about Darfur? of course it's not Jews in particular, but there is basically unchecked genocide "happening" over there.
- EserVerx, on 11/10/2008, -4/+49Tankertunker: counter dugg.
analogkid01: buried.
Haha! That should teach you. - zolthar, on 11/10/2008, -4/+49Good question regarding the autopsies.
I don't have the answer, but It should depend on the available samples and technology, which while one's quality descends over the years, the other's improves.
Also, a common Holocaust denier's response to lab results regarding authentic samples would probably be claiming the test is fake or trying to make up an alternative logical (even if radical) explanation to the results. - JessicaChrono, on 11/10/2008, -2/+41My grandmother was taken into custody and placed in a labor camp. She was starved so severely that upon coming to the States, she was 65 lbs. She chewed bark for nutrients and she used the same bark to pencil on eyebrows to look healthy enough to continue working.
She was not Jewish.
Being Polish was enough. Don't single your family out as being the only people affected by this tragedy... Many were taken and killed for no other reason than geographic location. - ShrimpCrackers, on 11/10/2008, -3/+39Chilling? This must be especially chilling for the holocaust deniers. This is undeniable evidence and I hope it puts it to rest. You will be totally surprised how many holocaust deniers are out there.
- jbeardsl, on 11/10/2008, -2/+37This is an important historical find, no doubt.
- Scott83k, on 11/10/2008, -1/+36but what happened from 1939 to 1945?
Germany: We were on vacation! - inactive, on 11/10/2008, -4/+38@ jacquesm
The Jews were merely the biggest "villains" to the Nazis. They were the first to go. But Hitler also targeted gays, gypsies, retards, and poles. I'm half-Polish. Hitler's plan was to kill most of the Poles in short order and then leave a few to be slaves to serve the German settlers. He did, in fact, round up and send Poles to concentration camps. Add in the combat deaths and those who died while trying to peacefully live in their occupied country and nearly a quarter of Poland's population was lost because of Nazi atrocities.
Most of us living today would be targeted for extermination if the Nazis came along and took over the world. - SpeedSteamBoat, on 11/10/2008, -0/+33Guantanamo is and will be a blight on American history, but it pales in comparison to Auschwitz. I would have thought that would be obvious.
- inactive, on 11/10/2008, -1/+34The fact that genocide still takes place today (the example given was Darfur) is a very large reason why it is important to arrest, extradite (if necessary) and try 90+ year-olds for crimes they committed 65 years ago -- let people considering genocide today worry about having to look over their shoulders for the long hand of justice for the rest of their lives.
- zolthar, on 11/10/2008, -33/+66No, you don't understand the selective power of 'remembering only the JEWS'.
My (Jewish) family has either Holocaust victims that are remembered, and non-holocaust victims, which 'don't get the selective spotlight'.
The difference between them, as my family history tells:
Those who 'got the spotlight' were captured by a horde of east European collaborators who swept through the towns and took ONLY the Jews from their homes, as friends and neighbors of my grand grandparents testified.
Those who 'didn't get the spotlight' were men who drafted to the army and died as soldiers.
Both 'spotlight getters/ungetters' were Jewish, yet there is a difference.
Can you see it? - foopirata, on 11/10/2008, -4/+37@emailowndrr: we don't "hope", we make sure it never happens again. every day.
- ILikePants, on 11/10/2008, -2/+34Have to add a couple of things..
Even if you could exhume and do autopsies, what new information do you think you'd learn? there are a ton of data indicating that yes, it happened. There were thousands of witnesses. There were records. There was physical evidence. What the hell else do you want, a confession from Hitler on live television?! There is no disagreement among reputable scholars that genocide happened.
And yes, it DOES make a difference whether it happened. There's a difference between civilian casualty of war and victim of genocide. It's the difference between "war" and "war crimes". - BellaVitaGirl, on 11/10/2008, -4/+36I don't see how it is possible to deny the Holocaust after seeing the sheer amount of evidence for it (from survivors, liberators, people who have lost loved ones, etc.). If you haven't seen the evidence that's one thing--but in the 1940s it was impossible to fake these kinds of videos and pictures as are in the archives.
Remember that there were labor camps and death camps. Mostly Jewish people were targeted because Hitler blamed them for the Germany's and his own personal struggles. He also targeted homosexuals, political dissenters, and basically anyone who was not "Aryan" according to his terms. Hitler also systematically destroyed mentally challenged and disabled individuals, not through labor or death camps, but through eugenics programs and physical experiments.
My suggestion to everyone is to go visit the Holocaust Museum in Washington DC. Making it through that chilling exhibit unmoved is impossible--you can still smell the ash from the burned bodies in a room with abandoned shoes; you can see Nazi footage of human experiments, you can see footage from liberating the cruelly efficient camps--it's a necessity for humanity to not let this happen ever again. - Tanktunker, on 11/10/2008, -2/+33The point of making a big noise about the holocaust isn't just to get attention, you know, I know a lot of survivors (well, I know some survivors, and they're all like this) who are happy to live the remainder of their lives without having to relive what happened.
The point is to show what happens when ***** gets out of hand to the point where people overlook someone's radicalism in a "oh-well-he-won't-really-act-upon-it" kind of way just because he promises change or prosperity (I'm not talking about Obama, he's no extremist, and he's not going to put all the white people in camps).
Most of the people involved just want to make sure nothing like that ever happens again, and unfortunately, it's happening now, in Africa, and people still don't care enough to do anything.
Furthermore, the other 30 or so million deaths were caused through the war, not through systematic genocide, like bombing of Dresden or London, they were "unavoidable" in that that they were casualties of war just as much as the soldiers fighting the war were, they we're unavoidable in that that the war shouldn't have been in the first place, but they weren't specifically, personally targeted and put through torture, starvation, beatings and murdered en mass. - IphtashuFitz, on 11/10/2008, -1/+32"The plans also offer evidence that the Nazis planned the Holocaust from an earlier date than previously believed."
Why does that not surprise me? - mirunit, on 11/10/2008, -1/+31I don't think you will ever convince the holocaust deniers, as I do not think they are capable of understanding what exactly it was the transpired. The truth is they do not want to believe and no hard evidence will do anything to alter their reality. There likely are a good number of holocaust deniers, however the past is the past and at this moment in time - what a fraction of humanity did 70 years ago and the group of people who are unwilling to believe does not exactly matter.
- sindex, on 11/10/2008, -1/+30Sorry dude, I think you're wrong. This is way more chilling.
- 120decibel, on 11/10/2008, -2/+28THIS QUESTION IS SETTLET ONCE AND FOR ALL!!!
And I dont know if you understand the principle of a crematory but most of the gassed victoms god burned to ashes right after. I live in Weimar, right next to Buchenwald (another former death camp) feel free to come over and have a look for yourselves, you won't ask that question ever again! - beesaretasty, on 11/10/2008, -0/+26It doesn't seem like the Roma get much sympathy (even now) in Europe and they certainly were not given a country. Granted estimates only go as high as 800,000 slaughtered for them, but for such a small population, that is a pretty high number.
- nosecohn, on 11/10/2008, -2/+28I think you have some basic misunderstandings...
The majority of people killed in World War II were combatants or victims of collateral damage. But the Jews were almost entirely civilians, rounded up from their homes and systematically exterminated solely because of their ancestry. As this article demonstrates, the deliberateness of this act was so complete that special facilities were designed and built, at considerable expense, just to bring this monstrous genocide to fruition. That's what makes it different.
As far as exhuming the bodies goes, there was no need. Allied soldiers photographed thousands of these bodies and the facilities where they were killed. There are many, many living witnesses who testify to the events. Some of them still have numbers tatooed on their arms. The idea that people deny or diminish this history is a great offense to those people and to the idea of truth. - emailowndme, on 11/10/2008, -13/+39well also gays, gypsies, etc.
Also, no particular reason to get nasty. We get it, you were targeted, it sucks and I hope that it never happens again. - Leviathan433, on 11/10/2008, -4/+29There appears to be some sort of PROBLEM with your KEYBOARD'S shift key STICKING.
- Chairboy, on 11/10/2008, -1/+25Counterplex, while I disagree, I respect that you have a difference in opinion. Would you be willing to discuss why you feel the three are unrelated? When it comes to identifying the psychology behind the decisions people make when they enter The Conspiracy Zone, the heinousness of the conspiracy shouldn't be an issue, if that's your concern.
- ostracize, on 11/10/2008, -0/+23ShrimpCrackers,
This isn't going to dispel any myths. They'll just say the document was forged.
You can't unconvince anyone who has already denied solid evidence. - derang, on 11/10/2008, -1/+22Absolutely not and if you'd been to a second world war-era Nazi concentration camp you'd know. The Germans were, and remain, meticulous planners and record keepers. The allies had this quirk to thank when attempting to unravel the events of WW2 and particularly when building cases for the Nürnberg trials.
Concentration camps were carefully designed with their purpose in mind. New camps were designed and built with lessons learned during construction and management of older camps. There are extensive plans for human specific crematoria in existence in museums across Germany. Make no mistake, a lot of planning went into every aspect of the National Socialist's schemes. - JMellissa, on 11/10/2008, -4/+24Many of my relatives died in Auschwitz. I KNOW it was real!
- Doritos, on 11/10/2008, -0/+19I'm tired of all the descriptions of the Polish bystanders, who only watched, and sometimes joined in with the killing of the Jews. As many Polish civilians died during the holocaust as did Polish jews. 3 million polish jewish civilians were killed, as were 3 million non-jewish poles. To insinuate that the poles did not suffer, and only the jews did would be a disrespect to the memory of the other 3 million. And besides, both the Polish jews and non jewish poles were citizens of Poland, making them both legally poles.
- norle, on 11/10/2008, -0/+18Simply put, the holocaust naysayers believe that yes, the Germans rounded up the Jews and put them in camps and yes, the were poorly treated and malnourished. But where they differ is that they say most of the prisoners died of typhus, dysentery, or some other "natural" disease and were not systematically destroyed on purpose.
No one ever denied the buildings, camps, or deaths. They only deny the manner of death.
And before everyone jumps down my throat, I am NOT a holocaust revisionist. I'm just repeating what THEY claim. - solid12345, on 11/10/2008, -1/+18Forged from the fires of Mount Doom?
- wellgood, on 11/10/2008, -3/+20x2
- buster99, on 11/10/2008, -3/+20Maybe Mr. Ahmadinejad would like a set suitable for framing?
- davidron, on 11/10/2008, -4/+21@randomjames: One claims a conspiracy concocted by Jewish People while the other claims a conspiracy concocted by the United States Government. Everything after that is about the same: ignore some scientific evidence and supplant it with other scientific evidence regardless of the fact that the overwhelming majority of the scientific community backs the popular opinion.
I'm not making any arguments about the validity of the claims of the 9/11 "truthers", but I am saying that there is quite a bit the logical arguments have in common. - inactive, on 11/10/2008, -4/+21You are wrong - it matters very much. Your comment is flaky and poorly thought out and has a bad taste to it.
- Hetman, on 11/10/2008, -1/+17Their are still holocaust deniers out their? Seriously you might as well still believe that earth is the center of the galaxy.
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