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At least 18 shot at Northern Illinois University
cnn.com — (CNN) -- At least 18 people have been shot at Northern Illinois University outside Chicago, CNN affiliates are reporting.
Mortikahn- 4108 diggs
- digg it
- xerosawyer, on 02/14/2008, -17/+168Sad day.
- illycoffee, on 02/14/2008, -148/+7At least it will help Obama, right? He'll save us from these awful things ever happening again. http://digg.com/2008_us_elections/Is_Barack_Obama_ ...
- arcooke, on 02/14/2008, -14/+44Go take your Obama spam elsewhere... this is NOT the place for it.
- bitspace, on 02/14/2008, -2/+48I think it was anti-Obama spam, but the sentiment still applies.
- nospinhere, on 02/15/2008, -3/+1I doubt it, never put it past these Obamabots.
- bitspace, on 02/14/2008, -2/+48I think it was anti-Obama spam, but the sentiment still applies.
- Asianwaste, on 02/14/2008, -14/+32I'm an Obama fan myself, but man... ***** YOU
- bot001220, on 02/15/2008, -2/+14FFS, you fools. He's not actually an Obama fan.
- Corman420, on 02/14/2008, -3/+19What a stupid thing to say....
This is a sad day... - mGARANDEUR1, on 02/15/2008, -32/+14Obama wants to take your guns away from you. He does not respect the constitution. Expect more school shootings (or even shootings in general).
- jebudas, on 02/15/2008, -3/+17The shooter opened fire on innocent students and is therefore obviously sick in the head. If you think a person like this will think to himself, "But what if someone else there has a gun?", then you are completely fooling yourself.
"We essentially have two realities, when it comes to guns, in this country. You've got the tradition of lawful gun ownership. It is very important for many Americans to be able to hunt, fish, take their kids out, teach them how to shoot. Then you've got the reality of 34 Chicago public school students who get shot down on the streets of Chicago. We can reconcile those two realities by making sure the Second Amendment is respected and that people are able to lawfully own guns, but that we also start cracking down on the kinds of abuses of firearms that we see on the streets."
+ Barack Obama (Jan 15, 2008) - sam98597, on 02/15/2008, -10/+15@ jebudas
If you think stricter gun control would have stopped this shooting, you are fooling yourself- jebudas, on 02/15/2008, -8/+19Do you remember the Virginia Tech shootings? The kid there had previously been shown to have mental issues and he still was able to purchase two guns within about a month. Could stricter gun control have stopped that? I say yes.
I believe a person should be allowed to own a gun. But handing them out to anyone and everyone is fekkin ridiculous. - Mothrog, on 02/15/2008, -3/+6Uh, jebudas, Cho had been adjudicated mentally defective. He should not have been able to purchase a gun under CURRENT GUN LAWS. How much good did they do?
- jebudas, on 02/15/2008, -4/+4@Mothrog
Couldnt that be said about any law though? Should they abolish speed limits because some people still speed? No, because it keeps most people in check and saves thousands of lives each year. Strict gun laws are a good thing, strict enforcement of those laws is better. - Mothrog, on 02/15/2008, -6/+7"Should they abolish speed limits because some people still speed?"
Speed limits are one thing. The idea that a gun law would stop someone from committing the most heinous crime humanity is capable of, murder, is asinine. Murders are willing to break laws, and gun laws are no exception. Guns are easy to purchase illegally and so long as machining equipment and metal stock are available, they will always be easy to buy illegally. Strict gun laws hurt law abiding citizens. Criminals have unfettered access to guns. - pnarel, on 02/15/2008, -0/+1Cho got his guns illegally. Even if we tore the Constitution in two and made firearms illegal, people would still have them, except these people would get them illegally, and they would be the kinds of people you don't want toting guns.
- jebudas, on 02/15/2008, -8/+19Do you remember the Virginia Tech shootings? The kid there had previously been shown to have mental issues and he still was able to purchase two guns within about a month. Could stricter gun control have stopped that? I say yes.
- jebudas, on 02/15/2008, -3/+17The shooter opened fire on innocent students and is therefore obviously sick in the head. If you think a person like this will think to himself, "But what if someone else there has a gun?", then you are completely fooling yourself.
- FallenWings, on 02/15/2008, -9/+6What the ***** is wrong with you people?!?! Exploiting the deaths of 5 college students to make a political point. We all have our views on gun control, appropriate discussion for such a topic. However, pimping your favorite politician in THE FIRST comment thread is disgusting. Shame on you.
- bot001220, on 02/15/2008, -0/+4Genius: the guy is a TROLL. You fail at the Internet.
- xptoast, on 02/15/2008, -0/+1I always get the mental image of someone in a boat trolling and huge words keeps comming up in the nets.
- bot001220, on 02/15/2008, -0/+4Genius: the guy is a TROLL. You fail at the Internet.
- LovelyNeko, on 02/15/2008, -4/+4STFU *****.
- DharmaTurtle, on 02/15/2008, -1/+6This guy is a troll, just block/report him.
He said this in a Dennis Kucinich story:
"They only help Dennis needs is mental help. Go home to your wife. You ruined Cleveland and you're socialism has only accelerated the decline of Ohio industry. Exit stage left."
http://digg.com/users/illycoffee/history/comments
Hes nothing at all like real Obama supporters. - HeyLew, on 02/15/2008, -2/+4i hate you
- lostmyleggins, on 02/16/2008, -0/+1is that hate speech?
- arcooke, on 02/14/2008, -14/+44Go take your Obama spam elsewhere... this is NOT the place for it.
- MaTT2011, on 02/14/2008, -5/+32Indeed.
Someone will probably shoehorn video games or entertainment in general as being the cause here, as usual, instead of actually assigning this crazy thing called "personal responsibility" to the douchebag who committed these crimes. And thus no lessons will be learned and the tragedy will multiply, as usual. News casters and personalities will feign concern and sadness in so far as they feel they need to in order to get ratings and in some way profit from this situation instead of pointing out the facts behind incidences like this one or creating a constructive dialog on human nature, behavior and emotion.
On so many levels events such as these are tragedies...- ben_nushmut, on 02/15/2008, -1/+6I think you're right, if by "someone" you mean Jack Thompson or Leland Yee. Or most anyone on Fox "News". Or anyone looking for easy publicity, really.
- xptoast, on 02/15/2008, -0/+3Violent video games give an outlet to people who might otherwise turn into RL violent people. Sure gives me an outlet when I am stressed. Good game of halo always makes it all better. Fight with the wife? Play some halo. Dog pisses on the floor? Play some halo. Got sick and vomited??? Clean up then play some halo. It all works out. Yay for an outlet other than beating a stranger with your pet dog, Fido.
- antiorblkflag9, on 02/15/2008, -2/+3I wouldn't be so hasty to call the shooter a douche bag. What he did was a horrible horrible thing, but there is usually a motive behind the actions. I would wait until the whole story comes out before pointing fingers.
- xptoast, on 02/15/2008, -0/+4Pointing fingers is old school. Now adays we point tazers.
- girlpirate, on 02/15/2008, -0/+7while he may have had a mental issue, I generally believe that people who shoot people are in fact douche bags.
- CrazedLeper, on 02/14/2008, -25/+91USA: #1 in school shootings.
- FallenWings, on 02/15/2008, -10/+36Why is he being dugg down? The man is right, don't click the thumbs down button because you can't stomach the truth.
- zKman, on 02/15/2008, -3/+43BBC: "It is also the fourth shooting at a US education establishment within a week. Last Friday, a woman shot dead two fellow students before killing herself at Louisiana Technical College in Baton Rouge. In Memphis, Tennessee, a 17-year-old is accused of shooting and critically wounding a student on Monday, and a 15-year-old was shot at a junior high school in California on Tuesday"
- NgrHader, on 02/14/2008, -1/+14It's shocking as I was heading to DeKalb in two weeks to meet up with some longtime friends, I may push it to this weekend now.
- skinjester, on 02/15/2008, -14/+0why? expecting more shooting?
- epsilon624, on 02/15/2008, -2/+8to comfort them you jackass
- Fr4nk2012, on 02/15/2008, -0/+7his name is ngrhader.
doesn't seem like much of a comforter.
- Fr4nk2012, on 02/15/2008, -0/+7his name is ngrhader.
- epsilon624, on 02/15/2008, -2/+8to comfort them you jackass
- skinjester, on 02/15/2008, -14/+0why? expecting more shooting?
- ptFoe, on 02/14/2008, -39/+18Americans and their insatiable love for guns to compensate for their masculine insecurities.
- itsthebrod, on 02/14/2008, -7/+17School shootings happen worldwide, moron.
- jserio, on 02/15/2008, -18/+7Do they? Can you post any stories from European school shootings in the last few years?
- Aeaus, on 02/15/2008, -5/+20http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/04/26/ge ...
There's a lot in Europe as well, we just don't hear about them as much.- Spuy767, on 02/15/2008, -1/+3Cause that would put a dent in the "Ban Guns" theory, and we can't have that.
- ScornedPatriot, on 02/15/2008, -3/+15@jserio
Yes, yes I do. Here is a map of worldwide school shootings.
Tuusula, Finland
Crime occured: Nov, 2007
http://www.mibazaar.com/schoolshootings/
- CrazedLeper, on 02/15/2008, -4/+3I think he's onto something.
- itsthebrod, on 02/14/2008, -7/+17School shootings happen worldwide, moron.
- falkonv7l, on 02/14/2008, -4/+32Now Valentines Day is f-ed up for a bunch of familes
- 11b1p, on 02/15/2008, -6/+3st valentines day massacre 2
- Asianwaste, on 02/14/2008, -0/+16So yea I've got some buddies over there right now. 1 was in Cole Hall when it happened. Everyone I know over there is alright... but this really sucks. There was a threat on December and the campus shut down. In my time there I've seen some gang related violence but they usually kept that ***** as clean as possible (amongst themselves I guess would be the bright side of that matter). One has to wonder the desperation it takes for someone to just lash out on the immediate community around them and go on a wanton rampage killing indiscriminately.
A selfish part of me says thank God all of the people around me are safe and I guess it sucks that my relief overwhelms my grief for the victims I don't know. For what it's worth, they have my sentiments. - r4agreements, on 02/15/2008, -2/+5How can we prevent this sort of situation from happening? Sad Day Indeed.
- Asianwaste, on 02/15/2008, -3/+14This is probably the sappiest thing I'll say, but what the hell. It all boils down to us as a whole. We trade the security of having armored storm troopers marching on our streets for our freedoms because we as people are capable of taking care of ourselves. We like to think that we are so capable of being a self nurturing society and we are leagues above the beasts we evolved from. Yet a lot of us have the tendency to give into our self preserving instincts and obey the laws of survival of the fittest, even if it means kicking someone when they are down or trying to gain leverage at the expense of someone else's happiness, rather than bring each other up. We cling onto each other when we are at our lowest moments or when tragedy strikes but then forget those moments of humility when our natural rhythm is back on track and we fall into the same transgressions we put others through.
I won't put any sympathy towards this ***** who would put those near me in danger. A sick part of me is glad that he's dead. I'd say the answer isn't putting guns away out of reach. Because if someone wants to kill people there are ways. You take away guns, they'll make bombs. It's not the means to kill, it's the drive to want to that is the problem.
So the answer your question, (here's the sappy part). Rather than point fingers on blame, why not use that hand to reach down and lift someone up when they're down? A small act of kindness towards your fellow man can go a long way sometimes. - sjl127, on 02/15/2008, -21/+11Allow concealed carry on campus. That's how to stop this *****.
- HeyLew, on 02/15/2008, -4/+4digg that *****!
- there, on 02/15/2008, -9/+10 Yeah dude .and let's not forget to hand out guns to....
- kindergarten kids... to stop school bullying
- everyone in Darfur... to stop ethnic cleansing
- convicts ...to stop prison rapes
- airline flights...to make our flights safe!
God bless the NRA. Continuing to save American lives with their brilliance every day.- MadOtaku, on 02/15/2008, -1/+3Well, 2, and 4 aren't bad ideas really. I wouldn't hand them out to people on planes, but if people on planes had been armed, it would have been harder to hijack.
- Spuy767, on 02/15/2008, -1/+4People without the slightest hint of a criminal record and no mental defects should absolutely be alowed to carry on planes. Any zone where the law makes it illegal to have a firearm makes that zone a place for someone to break the law and harm many people.
- lostmyleggins, on 02/16/2008, -0/+2how about faculty, staff, janitors, veterans, retired leo on campus instead
- haiduz, on 02/15/2008, -1/+42From Roger Ebert review of the movie elephant: [ http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic ... ]
"Let me tell you a story. The day after Columbine, I was interviewed for the Tom Brokaw news program. The reporter had been assigned a theory and was seeking sound bites to support it. "Wouldn't you say," she asked, "that killings like this are influenced by violent movies?" No, I said, I wouldn't say that. "But what about 'Basketball Diaries'?" she asked. "Doesn't that have a scene of a boy walking into a school with a machine gun?" The obscure 1995 Leonardo Di Caprio movie did indeed have a brief fantasy scene of that nature, I said, but the movie failed at the box office (it grossed only $2.5 million), and it's unlikely the Columbine killers saw it.
The reporter looked disappointed, so I offered her my theory. "Events like this," I said, "if they are influenced by anything, are influenced by news programs like your own. When an unbalanced kid walks into a school and starts shooting, it becomes a major media event. Cable news drops ordinary programming and goes around the clock with it. The story is assigned a logo and a theme song; these two kids were packaged as the Trench Coat Mafia. The message is clear to other disturbed kids around the country: If I shoot up my school, I can be famous. The TV will talk about nothing else but me. Experts will try to figure out what I was thinking. The kids and teachers at school will see they shouldn't have messed with me. I'll go out in a blaze of glory."
In short, I said, events like Columbine are influenced far less by violent movies than by CNN, the NBC Nightly News and all the other news media, who glorify the killers in the guise of "explaining" them. I commended the policy at the Sun-Times, where our editor said the paper would no longer feature school killings on Page 1. The reporter thanked me and turned off the camera. Of course the interview was never used. They found plenty of talking heads to condemn violent movies, and everybody was happy." - olliholliday, on 02/15/2008, -2/+3it's not all down to glorifying violence though.
people who have a lot to lose go to great lengths not to lose it, people who have nothing feel they have nothing to live for.
increase taxes on the rich to balance out your society and you'll find you have a lot less violence.
(but seriously, check the stats out before you down-mod me)- OverkillTASF, on 02/15/2008, -1/+1So, bribe psychopaths and criminals to stay at home watching big screen TVs?
- Asianwaste, on 02/15/2008, -3/+14This is probably the sappiest thing I'll say, but what the hell. It all boils down to us as a whole. We trade the security of having armored storm troopers marching on our streets for our freedoms because we as people are capable of taking care of ourselves. We like to think that we are so capable of being a self nurturing society and we are leagues above the beasts we evolved from. Yet a lot of us have the tendency to give into our self preserving instincts and obey the laws of survival of the fittest, even if it means kicking someone when they are down or trying to gain leverage at the expense of someone else's happiness, rather than bring each other up. We cling onto each other when we are at our lowest moments or when tragedy strikes but then forget those moments of humility when our natural rhythm is back on track and we fall into the same transgressions we put others through.
- GOVStooge, on 02/15/2008, -24/+9WTF is actual news doing on Digg?
- Dantetheinferno, on 02/15/2008, -5/+21Stfu and have some ***** respect.
- XFDRaven, on 02/15/2008, -12/+41Wait a sec, I thought the gun-free zone was supposed to keep these people out! The invisible shield of love and hippies and all of that.
Illusion of safety? Oh.- FallenWings, on 02/15/2008, -2/+24Yes, because when I head to my own 600 person lecture hall, I always bring my nine.
- Spuy767, on 02/15/2008, -0/+4If I were allowed you can bet your ass I would carry my Sig. I carry my pistol everywhere that the law allows, on my person. Put one, capable, pistol weilding man or woman in the front row of that auditorium, and you would see this end differently.
- dbz253, on 02/15/2008, -1/+2i totally agree other than the hippie part. something tells me you are probably in favor of "drug free" zones.
- FallenWings, on 02/15/2008, -2/+24Yes, because when I head to my own 600 person lecture hall, I always bring my nine.
- birch25, on 02/15/2008, -1/+13this happened in the building next to the one i was in. scary as hell. have the families of the victims in your prayers.
- porfirio, on 02/15/2008, -0/+0my class is actually in the room right after it happened and my friends and i normally meet there at about three and head over to neptune for lunch. luckily for some reason we decided to skip today otherwise i don't know what would've happened.
- LovelyNeko, on 02/15/2008, -10/+2I blame videogames.
- FatLoser, on 02/15/2008, -1/+8I blame geek squad.
- KibibyteBrain, on 02/15/2008, -4/+10I blame students being placed in an overly competitive system with limited positive feedback while at the same time being offered no support net via an individualist society.
- WhatsUpWithJack, on 02/15/2008, -5/+1oh please... call the ***** WAAAAAAAAAAAMBULANCE.
- Nerfdude, on 02/15/2008, -0/+7guaranteed Westboro will take some time out of their already busy schedules to picket the funerals with their "god hates fags" signs. they were here in missouri to picket the funerals after the shootings at kirkwood city hall. enjoy.
- antiorblkflag9, on 02/15/2008, -0/+4Here comes Westboro to make everything worse....
- j1ggy, on 02/15/2008, -3/+1Not to come across as negative, but bombings and shootings occur all over the world every day. This isn't news. Buried.
- jordn, on 02/15/2008, -0/+1can't believe this has happened again :(
- illycoffee, on 02/14/2008, -148/+7At least it will help Obama, right? He'll save us from these awful things ever happening again. http://digg.com/2008_us_elections/Is_Barack_Obama_ ...
- Mortikahn, on 02/14/2008, -10/+71They have since changed the headline to read SEVERAL people, instead of 18.
- Defuser, on 02/14/2008, -30/+2Oh, well "SEVERAL" people is obviously so much better than "18" people.
- terminal157, on 02/15/2008, -0/+2Actually yes it is. It implies a smaller number.
- sinrtb, on 02/15/2008, -0/+3Which is misleading as 21 people were shot with so far 6 fatalities (counting the gunman).
- terminal157, on 02/15/2008, -0/+2Actually yes it is. It implies a smaller number.
- UrbanRacer, on 02/15/2008, -47/+2What the hell is wrong with you people over their??? do us all a favour and just nuke the god damn country and GTFO!!!
- lightningrod220, on 02/15/2008, -3/+23I'm going to pretend that you didn't just write that, and that you're not the most horrible, insensitive person on the planet. Pond scum has a higher value than you right now.
Don't do it again.
- lightningrod220, on 02/15/2008, -3/+23I'm going to pretend that you didn't just write that, and that you're not the most horrible, insensitive person on the planet. Pond scum has a higher value than you right now.
- brkhobowriter, on 02/15/2008, -0/+7Now it's five dead and 18 injured...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/niu_shooting - culbeda, on 02/15/2008, -0/+1I normally don't crave details, but I went to school there, took classes in that hall and even worked at the university, including labs very near Cole Hall. I have friends who were a couple of buildings away and my mother was working around less than 200 yards from there at the time of the attack. DeKalb is a small town that totally revolves around NIU. You just don't expect this kind of thing to happen in a town like that. What the hell drives a person do kill indiscriminately anywhere, let alone in a sleepy little town like DeKalb?
- Plastic3D, on 02/15/2008, -0/+2We need a policy of nitrogen deep-freezing these f#$%ers after they shoot themselves so they may have a little doubt in their mind that one day they will be resurrected and brought to justice or tortured.
- Defuser, on 02/14/2008, -30/+2Oh, well "SEVERAL" people is obviously so much better than "18" people.
- 93TILL503, on 02/14/2008, -9/+179This is not the way. Seek help.
R.I.P- Shawshanksr, on 02/14/2008, -0/+30dugg up dude... these college kids really need some psychological help, this has happened too many times
- wesd, on 02/14/2008, -30/+17Whilst I don't disagree that these kids need help, what I think they need more is an inability to easily lay their hands on guns!
You know when the last time this happened in the UK was? Oh yeah, never.
It's a sad day that so many people lost their lives, I can only imagine the pain of the families and confusion of the universities students, but until some preventative measures are initiated I will never be fully sympathetic towards these copy-cat mass murder situations. It's not shameful to learn from mistakes.- Grym11, on 02/14/2008, -8/+15And yet, Germany has very similar gun laws to the UK and has seen numerous school shootings.. why do you think that is?
- wesd, on 02/15/2008, -3/+15Well the most logical conclusion would be that people in the UK are more mentally stable than their German counterparts, ergo, they're also more mentally stable than those in the USA. However, we all know that's absolute rubbish.
Also, German gun laws, whilst strict, are not really similar to UK law. There are more than 12 million legally owned guns in Germany and many more are easily accesible through eastern European channels from past conflicts. Either way, I wasn't talking so much about laws I was talking about availability.
Finally, "numerous" is an exaggerated word to describe school shootings in Germany, "a couple" would be more appropriate. Regardless, when there is a shooting in Germany they take a serious look at gun laws and availabilty and proactively change them for the better. I don't expect America to change their views anytime soon but I like to think that the intelligent amongst us can see reason here. I know I feel safe at my university, as I have done my whole life, I can't imagine having to attend public places knowing that the probability of someone having a gun is relatively high.
There's only one thing that winds me up more than the "we need MORE guns to solve our gun problem" reasoning and that's religion... I swear if anyone brings that up I'm gonna explode. - SuperCUBE, on 02/15/2008, -4/+1Because Germany is ***** up?
- wesd, on 02/15/2008, -3/+15Well the most logical conclusion would be that people in the UK are more mentally stable than their German counterparts, ergo, they're also more mentally stable than those in the USA. However, we all know that's absolute rubbish.
- Lythium, on 02/15/2008, -10/+13Funny, I'm not a huge fan of universal gun ownership, but all I could think of was "if only a couple of those kids could just SHOOT BACK...."
- skinjester, on 02/15/2008, -2/+1and you think that would have helped? would have just increased the carnage.
- mickcn, on 02/15/2008, -3/+3See, we don't need more kids with guns. I believe, thats the problem. Guns are for wars, recreation, and/or hunting. Not for protection. You shouldn't need it. Guns, really aren't the issue, People are. Until we americans start moving forwards, instead of backwards, nothing will change.
- rumagin, on 02/15/2008, -2/+1dunblane
- Grym11, on 02/14/2008, -8/+15And yet, Germany has very similar gun laws to the UK and has seen numerous school shootings.. why do you think that is?
- wesd, on 02/14/2008, -30/+17Whilst I don't disagree that these kids need help, what I think they need more is an inability to easily lay their hands on guns!
- Insolent, on 02/14/2008, -5/+6Help costs money. Money these people probably don't have or if they could even afford 60 dollars twice a week and the time for it to work, they probably would rather have the $6240 a year. And you can't medicate everything.
- HunterSeeker42, on 02/15/2008, -0/+5They have campus councilors and advisor's for a reason. And they are free for students to boot.
- ncboxer, on 02/15/2008, -0/+1Most local governments have free mental health services (maybe all).
- skeletorcares, on 02/15/2008, -10/+4Officially no victims died as of 6:18pm. Only the gunman.
- skeletorcares, on 02/15/2008, -0/+46 as of 10:38 :-(
- dildoolielly, on 02/15/2008, -2/+15If you are a nobody, loser who wants to go out a celebrity, this is exactly the way.
Lemme explain, Valinetine's day, FOX news 24/7 w/this *****
Its the U.S. sensationist media that will give this psycho exaclty what he wants.
Until we face that fact, this horrible ***** will keep on happening - Revolution101, on 02/15/2008, -9/+2xenu did it
- inverselogic, on 02/15/2008, -1/+10If a dork is getting picked on, BE THAT GUY'S FRIEND.....
- olliholliday, on 02/15/2008, -2/+8indeed,
denigrate him as a psycho all you want - but you try being the guy who everybody you've ever met picks on. i'm sure it woudln't be fun, maybe so little fun that taking your own life is pretty insignificant.- mickcn, on 02/15/2008, -5/+3Don't make excuses for him.
- olliholliday, on 02/15/2008, -2/+8indeed,
- stackered, on 02/15/2008, -2/+3I can't believe this ***** is still happening... colleges really need to step up security to full tier. If that means sacrificing your weed and beer sometimes for safety, so be it. I'd rather be alive and sober than wasted and wasted.
- MacEnvy, on 02/15/2008, -0/+1Coward. I'd rather enjoy myself and live life to the fullest rather than live in fear, cowering behind "campus security".
Remember that saying, "If _________, then the terrorists win"? That applies here as well.
- MacEnvy, on 02/15/2008, -0/+1Coward. I'd rather enjoy myself and live life to the fullest rather than live in fear, cowering behind "campus security".
- Shawshanksr, on 02/14/2008, -0/+30dugg up dude... these college kids really need some psychological help, this has happened too many times
- Adam420, on 02/14/2008, -184/+64This is happening too regularly now in America...
GUN LAWS NEED TO BE CHANGED, SERIOUSLY!- notahippie76, on 02/14/2008, -4/+72Oh god, don't you know what you have started?
/me runs and hides while he still can. - h4ckler, on 02/14/2008, -33/+104Yeah without guns people wouldn't kill each other! Shut your mouth. Psychological evaluation laws need to be changed, not gun laws.
- Adam420, on 02/14/2008, -46/+14You can never tell whos going to shoot up some place, even if you screened everyone for pshychological stuff anyways. The only way to make sure it doesnt happen is to make guns harder to get.
- steve_s, on 02/14/2008, -11/+79No matter how hard it is to get a gun and how illegal it is I could still get one. If i wanted to get 50 pounds of meth I could get it. Legality does not affect availability.
- bgrah449, on 02/14/2008, -27/+14I could not get 50 lbs of meth right now even if I wanted to. I could get a gun, though. "Availability" is not a binary value - selling fewer guns would result in making it harder for people to get guns. This isn't saying that getting a gun would be impossible - but many, many people who now get guns would not go through the effort to get guns if there were more barriers to possession.
- Adam420, on 02/14/2008, -31/+10just because YOU can get them doesnt mean EVERYONE can get them.
- gsandha99, on 02/14/2008, -35/+10Thats the dumbest thing ive ever heard...and i quote "Legality does not affect availability"...YOUR KIDDING RIGHT YOU *****. THINGS THAT ARE ILLEAGAL ARE HARDER TO OBTAIN THAN THINGS THAT ARE LEAGAL...GO TO SCHOOL YOU MORON. ID LIST A MILLION EXAMPLES BUT YOUR TOO MUCH OF AN IDIOT TO RESPOND TOO.
- bluto36, on 02/15/2008, -6/+12i would say it is you qsandha that needs to go to school and learn something. ever here of prohibition? more booze was drank during then before
- sovietninja, on 02/15/2008, -4/+1Seriously, its seems when things are legal they are harder to get, WTF can i buy a Q9450! I await the day some gangsta will sell me pentiums along with that new gold plated uzi.
- gsandha99, on 02/15/2008, -6/+4Bluto36.......you are comparing apples and oranges....you cannot compare the prohibition of alchohol to gun control. That would be like me using a comparison such as, apples are legal...and they are much more available than guns which are illeagal in canada for example. But that doesnt prove my point..does it.. That reasoning is FALSE......there is massive evidence that shows gun control is effective.....like i said before...look at europe and Canada.
when will you people realise that the second amendment is a load of crap which is outdated. time to get with the times people. black people were slaves...but then we realized that was stupid...so we changed....the same should happen with gun control...it needs to be more strict. go to school bluto.
- xtinamo, on 02/14/2008, -21/+7I could not agree with you more Adam...these people who have buried your comment are the same idiots who believe it is an "american" right to own bullets produced with the sole mission of killing. When will these pussies understand that guns will never compensate for their small dicks?
- Dimensio, on 02/15/2008, -1/+4I am curious. Why are individuals who oppose legal civillian firearms ownership obsessed with male genitalia?
- LOCK3D, on 02/15/2008, -7/+17If professors and students in these schools were allowed concealed carry, none of these shootings would have gone beyond a few deaths. I would also look at the brain altering pharmaceuticals that almost all of these school shooters have been on for many years. It may be a coincidence, but I doubt it. It's entirely possible that these doctor prescribed medications are actually chemically creating sociopaths over time. Just my opinion and I'm certainly no expert. Anyway, criminals will always have guns no matter what laws are passed. Laws only make it harder for good people to legally protect themselves and their families from those that don't care what the laws are.
- hollyberrry, on 02/15/2008, -3/+5I completely agree. If just a handful of those students were carrying concealed, they could have taken him out before he had time to reload his shotgun. In fact, he probably wouldn't have had the balls to show his face in the first place, if he knew there'd be the possibility of bullets flying in his direction. But it is well-known that schools are gun-free 'crime' zones.
- fancyj, on 02/15/2008, -3/+4I'm not saying I am anti-gun. The types of people that go on these sprees are obviously all mentally unstable. However, I don't see how bringing more guns into the equation is supposed to make things better. Yeah it's easy to say if someone had a concealed weapon in that classroom that they could have taken him out but this isn't ***** Halo we're talking about. This is a real situation with real people. What if someone pulled out their concealed weapon and shot the person next to the shooter by accident. Making concealed weapons legal is not the answer. Having stricter background checks on individuals is what is going to suppress shootings like this. And also having the media play these ***** clips with their flashy graphics and catchy headlines isn't exactly helping. Mass shootings are a problem that have many enabling factors. None of which we seem to recognize because we, as a society, have become so detached from reality and numbed by fear mongering. I feel like we've become a nation of wide eyed drones. Now I'm ranting. Stopping.
- Phatt138, on 02/15/2008, -1/+2Well, LOCKD's right of course - but only if you assume that people who were allowed to carry guns WOULD carry them. When people talk gun laws there's all this vigilante nonsense going on, but the fact remains that people have the right to carry concealed (with a permit) in most of the US and that when these things happen it's unexpected, Most people wouldn't happen to have guns on them even if it was encouraged, nevermind permitted.
- therazman, on 02/15/2008, -1/+4There are people who carry daily. I carry daily, I've been carrying daily for a long time. The thing is, if you saw me you would never know about my concealed 9mm. Who am I? I am retired corporate, and I have run my own small business for the last eleven years. My age is 61. I am married with grown children. I take blood pressure medication and an aspirin daily. My wife also has a carry permit. I served four years in the United States Marine Corps, but that was long ago. Someone mentioned collateral damage. Benjamin Franklin said "common sense isn't." Look, you don't shoot into a crowd. From what I've read, the gunman was on the stage, alone. Were I in the class, I would have taken aim, fired, and hit the target. Done deal. Case closed... except for all the lawsuits I would have to endure from his family, such as wrongful death, deadly hollow point ammunition and such. The permit process requires classroom and range training. Not much, I'll admit, but some. My wife and I both continue to practice at the local range. We discuss (and practice) safe gun handling techniques. We are respected in our community. You get the idea. Here's my questions: Am I a threat? ...or am I a deterrent?
- fancyj, on 02/15/2008, -2/+2there's really no point to this argument. it's just the same as the prisoners dilemma.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoners_dilemma
- danomagnum, on 02/15/2008, -1/+6Some people are nuts. You can outlaw guns, put metal detectors in schools and airports, have big brother watch us all day long, but in the end, when a crazy ***** wants to kill someone, they will do it. Period.
- steve_s, on 02/14/2008, -11/+79No matter how hard it is to get a gun and how illegal it is I could still get one. If i wanted to get 50 pounds of meth I could get it. Legality does not affect availability.
- bgrah449, on 02/14/2008, -8/+2Psychological evaluation laws need to be changed ... which laws would those be? You mean, they need to be created?
- jcm267, on 02/14/2008, -5/+21Actually BOTH need to be changed. We need to allow people to carry concealed weapons at Universities. And that's all I'm going to say as this is not a thread for political debate.
- hollyberrry, on 02/15/2008, -1/+6You are absolutely right. There are a great many teachers and professors that agree with you, as well.
- SeventhSon, on 02/15/2008, -2/+3If we outlaw goats, only the outlaws will have goats.
- hyaena, on 02/15/2008, -2/+5while we're at it, let's make screwdrivers, eating utensils, and hammers harder to get as well
- FreeDerry, on 02/15/2008, -5/+2yes because someone can do just as much damage with a fork as they can with a Shotgun
YOU RETARD
- FreeDerry, on 02/15/2008, -5/+2yes because someone can do just as much damage with a fork as they can with a Shotgun
- FreeDerry, on 02/15/2008, -7/+2Holy ***** could you imagination a campus full of students with every one carring around a gun
it would be ***** mayhem
seriously when it comes to gun control diggers turn into retards.- Juan_Bond, on 02/15/2008, -3/+1I don't know if I could imagination it, but I could Imagine it.
- Codename46, on 02/15/2008, -0/+2You're the one who is pulling an unlikely scenario out of your *****, and you're calling US retards?
- therazman, on 02/15/2008, -2/+4There are people who carry daily. I carry daily, I've been carrying daily for a long time. The thing is, if you saw me you would never know about my concealed 9mm. Who am I? I am retired corporate, and I have run my own small business for the last eleven years. My age is 61. I am married with grown children. I take blood pressure medication and an aspirin daily. My wife also has a carry permit. I served four years in the United States Marine Corps, but that was long ago. Someone mentioned collateral damage. Benjamin Franklin said "common sense isn't." Look, you don't shoot into a crowd. From what I've read, the gunman was on the stage, alone. Were I in the class, I would have taken aim, fired, and hit the target. Done deal. Case closed... except for all the lawsuits I would have to endur from his family, such as wrongful death, deadly hollow point ammunition and such. The permit process requires classroom and range training. Not much, I'll admit, but some. My wife and I both continue to practice at the local range. We discuss (and practice) safe gun handling techniques. We are respected in our community. Am I a threat? ...or am I a deterrent?
- skinjester, on 02/15/2008, -3/+0neither, apparently. Yet you sound like exactly the kind of person who could be trusted with a gun for that reason alone. You describe a piece of hardware without sentimentality that you're extremely familiar with, and practice with regularly. You sound like someone with a wealth of life experience to draw upon. I could not say the same about the student body on campus. Therse are basically kids, many away from home and familiar support systems for the first time, not to mention a variety of mammalian biological imperatives. it would be a disaster if whether certified or not, firearms were allowed on campus.
- Myztry, on 02/15/2008, -2/+2Works pretty well in Australia.
Guns weren't always illegal here. I myself used to own an unregistered rifle myself which was pretty common 20 years ago.
While rifles can be misused, it pretty pointless taking a handgun hunting. Hand guns are really only good for killing people.
Concealable guns is the issue you need to be addressing. A rifle is fine as a last defense (and it should be a last resort) but much more difficult to sneak into a confined area, let alone use effectively in the same space.- Codename46, on 02/15/2008, -0/+1Works WELL in Australia?
Explain your rising gun crime despite your ban on guns.- Myztry, on 02/15/2008, -0/+1Comparing the Australian crime rate, and the American crime rate. That's just silly. Especially when you're comparing killing sprees by school kids to general crime. You could have at least kept on topic by discussing murder.
- Codename46, on 02/15/2008, -0/+1Works WELL in Australia?
- Adam420, on 02/14/2008, -46/+14You can never tell whos going to shoot up some place, even if you screened everyone for pshychological stuff anyways. The only way to make sure it doesnt happen is to make guns harder to get.
- sundancekid503, on 02/14/2008, -8/+69How about banning the anti-depression medication that almost every school shooter seems to be on. I think half the problem is that America thinks it can treat every problem with a pill. In many cases these drugs are really messing kids up.
As far as guns, well there was a LOT of murder going on before the first gun was ever invented. I don't think banning guns would fix the cultural problems that we have.- hojibuji, on 02/14/2008, -17/+6I'm glad we can explain this away with a simple, sweeping statement like "the pills are the problem" ... Perhaps there's a bit more to it than your armchair psychology would permit?
- seand, on 02/14/2008, -8/+3Oh leave him alone, he is simply preaching the word of The Tom.
- sundancekid503, on 02/14/2008, -3/+3@seand
Yuck.. Come on.. Give me more credit than that.
- mGARANDEUR1, on 02/15/2008, -3/+6Tom Cruise would agree.
- Mothrog, on 02/15/2008, -3/+9"How about banning the anti-depression medication that almost every school shooter seems to be on."
Ever consider they're on anti-depression medication because they were ***** up to begin with? Correlation does not prove causation.- bot001220, on 02/15/2008, -0/+2Said drugs are known to amplify existing suicidal tendencies.
- Mothrog, on 02/15/2008, -2/+2And how did they determine that? I'd have to see how exactly they determined that a population already at risk for suicidal ideation some became more suicidal on a particular drug specifically because of that drug before I'd trust that.
- skinjester, on 02/15/2008, -0/+1its a well established fact. Its mentioned in the packaging insert that comes with the drugs, and there have been hundreds of studies and meta-analyses to support this. A Google search for: antidepressant suicidal ideation says more than I ever could. For example:
http://ebmh.bmj.com/cgi/content/extract/10/1/20
some evidence exists that there may be a specific genetic interaction contributing to this phenomena. But the bottom line is nobody knows why antidepressants "work". Technically, they work only marginally better than placebo. Its particularly concerning to see brands like Paxil being prescribed for bogus ailments like "restless leg syndrome" or "social anxiety disorder" in light of this information.
- skinjester, on 02/15/2008, -0/+1uh, a common side effect of tricyclic anti depressants is suicidal ideation and various forms of psychosis. Furthermore, while it can be shown than increased serotonin, etc. levels in the brain are related to depression, just as you say, correlation does not prove causation. Antidepressants function only marginally better than placebo to begin with. Long story short. The "software" implemented by the brain isn't close to being well understood enough for any form of depression to be considered treatable without physical monitoring and ongoing treatment by a therapist.
- Mothrog, on 02/15/2008, -1/+1"uh, a common side effect of tricyclic anti depressants is suicidal ideation and various forms of psychosis."
And how was this determined?
- Mothrog, on 02/15/2008, -1/+1"uh, a common side effect of tricyclic anti depressants is suicidal ideation and various forms of psychosis."
- bot001220, on 02/15/2008, -0/+2Said drugs are known to amplify existing suicidal tendencies.
- schroeder, on 02/15/2008, -0/+2Speaking from my own experience and people I know, if you take these meds and feel fine you think you can stop taking them and be fine. The problem is when you do stop you hit a new low and are worse than ever. It is not really taking meds that is the problem so much as it is taking them then stopping. I've done some ***** up ***** off my meds.
- flaknugget, on 02/15/2008, -0/+1Anti-depression medication? You mean Jack Daniels?
- Aitese, on 02/15/2008, -2/+1You ever tried mass murder with a club? Can't really see Virginia Tech getting done with an old school rapier sword.
- hojibuji, on 02/14/2008, -17/+6I'm glad we can explain this away with a simple, sweeping statement like "the pills are the problem" ... Perhaps there's a bit more to it than your armchair psychology would permit?
- Professr, on 02/14/2008, -11/+43Who do you think will be more scared, a person with an illegal gun going into a classroom to kill as many unarmed people as possible, or a person with an illegal gun going into a classroom that he knows is full of armed students and faculty? I know there are so many people who say "guns breed violence" and "ban all guns", but I don't think the university's no-gun policy saved any lives. You can't stop someone who is focused on killing and then suiciding from getting a gun. You can slow them down a little, but they'll still get them, even if it takes months. If people with licenses, background checks, and training were allowed to carry their guns with them to class, many many lives could be saved.
- floppyparty, on 02/14/2008, -13/+7I think everyone of us(fragile human beings ruled by emotions) carrying guns would be a great way to increase the number of murders by guns.
- moskaudancer, on 02/14/2008, -2/+7"...people with licenses, background checks, and training..."
Did you miss that little bit there, or what? - mGARANDEUR1, on 02/15/2008, -0/+7You should read up about what some of the founding fathers thought about gun control.
- skinjester, on 02/15/2008, -2/+0last time I checked the founding fathers were 18th century primitives whose ideas were only relevant for the much smaller world they lived in.
- Iconoclast25, on 02/15/2008, -0/+1"last time I checked the founding fathers were 18th century primitives whose ideas were only relevant for the much smaller world they lived in." (skinjester)
Every time I think I've seen the final depths of left's stupidity and ignorance, somebody like you shows up to prove there is at least one more layer of scum on the bottom of the barrel. Primitive? Absolutely . . . disgustingly so, and thus utterly unworthy of our consideration in the modern world . . . (/* sarc). Take, for example, this foolishness:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
Such ignorant, primitive, superstitious, parochial men with no relevance today! /* sarc
- Mothrog, on 02/15/2008, -1/+4Lots of things can be used to kill other people, including bare hands. People kill people. Letting people carry pistols does not magically turn people into murders.
- hollyberrry, on 02/15/2008, -0/+3Who you callin' a fragile human being ruled by emotion?? Speak for yourself, floppy.
- floppyparty, on 02/15/2008, -0/+1Whoa whoa there, lets not get all emotional, just trying to make a point.
- Synova, on 02/15/2008, -0/+2How many people died because of the Cold War again?
- floppyparty, on 02/15/2008, -0/+1Your point?
- moskaudancer, on 02/14/2008, -2/+7"...people with licenses, background checks, and training..."
- votingprawn, on 02/14/2008, -3/+4I agree that you cannot stop people attacking each other, however if guns were banned and hard to obtain, then people would use knives or similar. One guy with a knife can be (semi) easily restrained whereas Mr Man with a gun can shoot everyone from a distance for as long as he has ammo or is stopped/shot by police.
Now I'm not saying a ban would prevent these attacks but it would go along way towards stopping it. In the UK hand guns are pretty hard to get hold
of and the attacks that do happen at schools are limited to one or two people getting stabbed instead of 10+ being shot.- WindReaver, on 02/15/2008, -2/+7You will notice that these shootings only happen in places where guns are banned. Think for a few minutes about that.
- mGARANDEUR1, on 02/15/2008, -1/+4Yeah marijuana is illegal too, can't find that anywhere can we?
- WindReaver, on 02/15/2008, -2/+7You will notice that these shootings only happen in places where guns are banned. Think for a few minutes about that.
- Aitese, on 02/15/2008, -0/+2Yeah...I'm quite sure that this particular suicidal maniac was very relieved no one would shoot him before he got to kill himself
- floppyparty, on 02/14/2008, -13/+7I think everyone of us(fragile human beings ruled by emotions) carrying guns would be a great way to increase the number of murders by guns.
- onetimer, on 02/14/2008, -10/+51Yes, because I'm SURE anyone that intent on killing that many people would just plump give up after not being able to obtain a gun legally...
"If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns"- pintomp3, on 02/15/2008, -9/+3"if murder is outlawed, only outlaws will murder" duh.
- phenry50BMG, on 02/14/2008, -6/+38You're right! Everyone should be armed and properly trained in the use of their weapon and its safety features.
I have yet to see about a shooting at a gun show or a shooting range. Can't imagine why that would be...- JoJoDilio, on 02/15/2008, -2/+2"I have yet to see about a shooting at a gun show or a shooting range. Can't imagine why that would be..."
didn't really follow that clearly, but if you're suggesting that shooting ranges should have safety classes, then you should go to more ranges, because every one that I've been to has had these classes. Some ranges actually REQUIRE a class just to shoot there.- hollyberrry, on 02/15/2008, -1/+5No, he meant that no one would dare try to shoot someone at a gun show or the likes, because for the one bullet they might get a chance to squeeze off, a 100 more would be flying at their head from every pistol-packing person there.
- JoJoDilio, on 02/15/2008, -2/+2"I have yet to see about a shooting at a gun show or a shooting range. Can't imagine why that would be..."
- CravenTwain, on 02/14/2008, -36/+27School shootings in the US since 1997: 30
School shootings in the entire rest of the world: 11
Difference: the US is the only country with the constutional "right" to bear arms.- onetimer, on 02/14/2008, -25/+34Correlation does not imply causation...
Care to explain Switzerland's very low death-by-gun rate despite the fact that every family is REQUIRED to have an assault rifle in their homes?- alainmeyer1, on 02/14/2008, -5/+30No, Swiss families are NOT required to own an assault rifle or gun or any sorts. But rather when you serve, you get to take your gun home.
Don't provide falsities about the country I am from, please.- jcm267, on 02/14/2008, -4/+5Isn't it true that all Swiss men are conscripted into the Army? That means that every house probably has at least one person with a gun and military training in it. Doesn't your country have one of the highest gun ownership rates in the world?
- alainmeyer1, on 02/14/2008, -1/+14Yes, every Swiss man technically has to serve. However, there are many of us who get out of it by going abroad for college and so escaping service. Also, many fake injuries (or have real ones). You don't have to bring your gun home when you serve, either.
It is among the highest gun ownerships in the world. I didn't say that people don't have guns, but rather telling these people that it's not a LAW to have a gun :) - jcm267, on 02/15/2008, -5/+10Yeah.... it's a misconception, but the argument still stands. Your country has a high gun ownership rate and a MUCH lower crime rate than the US. The US just has a more violent culture.
- alainmeyer1, on 02/14/2008, -5/+30No, Swiss families are NOT required to own an assault rifle or gun or any sorts. But rather when you serve, you get to take your gun home.
- shaka776, on 02/14/2008, -5/+10Heck Yeah, man! Screw the constitution! - D. Cheney
- skubiszm, on 02/14/2008, -2/+5The only difference between the US and everyone else is the right to bear arms? I always thought there were many more differences.
- oderdigg, on 02/14/2008, -7/+6He/She never said that that was the only difference. Learn to read you douche.
- madm0nk, on 02/15/2008, -3/+1"School shootings in the US since 1997: 30
School shootings in the entire rest of the world: 11
Difference: the US is the only country with the *constitutional "right" to bear arms."
Read the last line my friend.
- madm0nk, on 02/15/2008, -3/+1"School shootings in the US since 1997: 30
- oderdigg, on 02/14/2008, -7/+6He/She never said that that was the only difference. Learn to read you douche.
- HoratioHellpop, on 02/15/2008, -11/+3Another difference: students in US schools watch violent TV and play violent video games that de-sensitize them to ... violence. Let the burying begin, since diggers love to blissfully ignore the obvious.
- Lythium, on 02/15/2008, -1/+9Wow, that was ignorant on so many levels, I don't know where to begin.
- I watched every horror movie in existence
- I'm a gamer; I've played any number of shooter games
- I surf the net and have seen some pretty atrocious stuff
and yet:
- I am NOT a sociopath
- I am NOT a criminal
- I am not capable of taking a human life, except perhaps to protect myself or those I love
If everyone who gamed/watched violent movies went on killing sprees - hell, if only 10% did - NYC would make the GTA series look like a Disney cartoon. We won't digg you down because we're "blissfully ignoring the obvious,' but because you're a troll who has absolutely zero sense of complexity.
Signing off before I start resorting to mindless profanity.- HoratioHellpop, on 02/15/2008, -5/+2Mindless is right. Who said "everyone?" Do you realize how many studies DIRECTLY LINK sociopathic behavior to violent films and videogames? Of course, you'll just ignore those studies, with your brilliant diagnosis of "well, I haven't killed anyone yet" or "well, those studies are funded by the 'publicans/big business/neo-industrial military complex" etc. etc. And no, I won't provide links. Do some research on your own (if you're capable of doing that outside of the Internet). Or, do as you've done in all of your 22-or-so-full-of-wisdom-years, and continue your ignorance -- and digg me down again.
- FallenWings, on 02/15/2008, -3/+2Wait, just let me head over to my local library at 7:49 PM and look up those studies OH WAIT, I forgot, the burden of proof is on you! I keep hearing the exact opposite of what you're saying, maybe I have selective hearing? Don't be a pussy, show us your information.
- JoJoDilio, on 02/15/2008, -2/+4@HoratioHellpop
Actually I do know how many studies "directly link" sociopathic behavior to violent films and videogames. The answer is 0.
Lets actually broaden the field a bit and say "how many studies 'directly link' violent behavior to violent media?" (see what I did there?)
Yet still the answer is none. Why? Because as stated above, correlation is not causation.
Want another example that makes this easier to see? Kids who come from divorced families are twice as likely to be given prescriptions for ADHD. By YOUR logic, the kids with ADHD are causing their parents to get divorces, because they simply can't handle the stress.
- madm0nk, on 02/15/2008, -4/+1Holy ***** .... you think that the U.S. is the only country that listens to violent music, watches violent movies, and plays violent video games? Buy a ***** plane ticket to Germany ASAP.
- madm0nk, on 02/15/2008, -0/+1I am sure that I was either dugg down by German digg users in complete denial in which case ..... ***** you, or I was dugg down by people who haver never been to Germany in which case ..... ***** you.
- l0k0, on 02/15/2008, -2/+0You're acting like Jack Thompson did during the Virginia Tech massacre. Very, very few facts have officially arisen, yet you're already blaming it on violent movies and videogames. Nevermind that these studies have almost always been inconclusive in linking real world violence and videogames. Even if I "blissfully ignore the obvious" like you claim, it isn't too hard to tell you're already exploiting a tradgedy for your own political agenda. Keep running after that ambulance buddy. Watch out for oncoming traffic. If your hit by a car or the shortbus you initially got off of, a little kid could be watching and become de-sensitized to......common sense.
- TheMarenum, on 02/15/2008, -1/+1What about Manson's music? You should blame that too. Toolbag,
- Lythium, on 02/15/2008, -1/+9Wow, that was ignorant on so many levels, I don't know where to begin.
- madm0nk, on 02/15/2008, -6/+2Don' t the Canadians have the right to own guns?
- maxmccabe, on 02/15/2008, -2/+2americans are ***** gun crazy..
- bCabulon, on 02/15/2008, -1/+3I'd say we just aren't irrationally afraid of guns. I keep hearing people from other countries talk as though guns were rabid dogs. Like any other tool it can be used properly or misused. The vast majority of firearms in the US are never used for anything more sinister than hunting or target shooting. The problem is hopeless young people. There are too many people coming of age in america who see no real future for themselves. Some lash out. Why do you think it is almost always at a school?
- nedzeve, on 02/15/2008, -0/+1Buried because facts have no place on DIGG.
- onetimer, on 02/14/2008, -25/+34Correlation does not imply causation...
- Picaroon, on 02/14/2008, -7/+32A guy in one of my classes was in the military and during a discussion said he wishes he were allowed to carry his weapon on campus. I'd much rather have him walking around armed than just the people who don't follow the law.
- oderdigg, on 02/14/2008, -20/+5This is a funny comment. What if your buddy, the army loser, shoots at a bad guy and hits someone else?
- Lythium, on 02/15/2008, -1/+7I always thought the army would teach you to aim -.-
- lotsa1s, on 02/15/2008, -4/+12"Army loser"? ***** off. Respect the people who fight and die for you, jackass.
- skinjester, on 02/15/2008, -4/+2they're not actually fighting or dying for anything remotely close to my own interests. So while, no disrespect, no respect either. I pity them actually.
- bolognium, on 02/15/2008, -0/+6collateral damage? but i'd rather that risk than a room completely defenseless..
- dungbeetle, on 02/15/2008, -0/+8What makes a cop any different? Should he not shoot at a bad guy in case he may hit someone else?
- JoJoDilio, on 02/15/2008, -2/+5seriously? Army loser? Die in a fire, asswhole.
- TheMarenum, on 02/15/2008, -1/+2Yeah, as in your whole ass gets burned. No, but seriously, let's try to be more positive.
- BeyondGoodNEvil, on 02/15/2008, -1/+3I think upstanding students should ignore the "gun free" zone ***** and conceal guns in their backpacks. Just imagine if 1 student had done that, and shot the gunman. He'd be a hero, despite "breaking the law". No jury in the world would convict him. Public outcry would make it impossible to convict him of anything. Just be careful to avoid metal detectors.
- oderdigg, on 02/14/2008, -20/+5This is a funny comment. What if your buddy, the army loser, shoots at a bad guy and hits someone else?
- PamalaLauren, on 02/14/2008, -6/+11Yeah like having strict gun laws will stop those who want to kill. It hasn't before.
- pissedoffsol, on 02/14/2008, -7/+38If a student IN the lecture hall had a gun, he could have aken the killer out before 18 students got hit.
GUN LAWS only effect law abiding citizens.
The criminals will still get them and still shoot your ass. PROTECT YOURSELF.- BeyondGoodNEvil, on 02/15/2008, -1/+4I think it'd be neat to see that happen once. The public outcry in support of the hero who defied the ***** "gun free zone" would make us rethink the very idea of it. It could really get a good dialogue going to reduce gun control. Gun control makes sense ONLY when the majority of people in an area are criminals. Everywhere else, which is most places, it makes no sense whatsoever.
- TheMarenum, on 02/15/2008, -4/+1Yeah, like everyone wouldn't just assume he was a killer too. The cops would just kill him too. How are law enforcement officials going to differentiate between the gunman and the kid trying to save everyone with the pistol in his backpack.
- hollyberrry, on 02/15/2008, -0/+4Actually, that did sort of happen in Colorado, in a church not so long ago.
In some states, churches are gun-free zones unless you have the explicit permission of the church to carry. When that kid went in and shot up that church, a member that was carrying-concealed took him out.
The church leaders were quick to point out that if that law-abiding churchgoer had not been carrying, a lot more people would have been injured or killed from the gunman. - pissedoffsol, on 02/15/2008, -1/+3in RE: to the nested post by TheMarenum (I can't reply deeper than this)...
When you have a pistol permit and a concealed carry permit (at least in my state), you are trained on safety and scenarios. It becomes 2nd nature.
Now, I'm pretty damn sure the cops response time was a LOT slower than the time it would take me draw and put 2 in the chest and 1 in the head of the shooter. Then, I'd approach the gunman, move all weapons from him, drop the magazines, etc, and then holster my own weapon after I've verified him dead.
Other sane folks in the hall will see this and know that pretty much a cop would do the same thing.
When the cops arrive, I would immediately tell them that I took him out and inform them that I have the weapon on me, all the while my hands in plain sight.
At that point, it would be up to the cop to disarm me if he so wishes temporarily until facts can be verified.
Remember kids, innocent people don't run. If you approach a cop and tell him that you took out a gunman and saved lives, they aren't even going to question your motive, assuming you are legally licensed to hold said weapon.
Take an NRA class. It's fun, and it may save your life someday... even if you don't carry.
I'm beyond my college years at this point, but i'd like to point out to those who don't know...
http://concealedcampus.org/
there is a movement to carry on campus, which I fully support, provided the carry is done in all legal terms.- TheMarenum, on 02/16/2008, -0/+1A ***** ton of innocent people run when there's a guy shooting people. I'm just saying there is a serious potential for somebody playing hero to get mistaken for a killer, say, perhaps, if he isn't as well trained as you.
- RedXIII, on 02/15/2008, -2/+0Wow. It seems as if everyone on Digg is an idiot.
1) Police officers can be held accountable when collateral damage takes place.
2) Did you ever learn about the Cold War? The Cuban Missile Crisis? Mutually Assured Destruction? Does this sort of existent when at any point, when someone is fueled by anger (we all have at some point said "i wish you were dead" or something to that effect to someone) could unholster their weapon and shoot someone? No.
3) Most of these school shootings are perpetrated by kids who have massive psychological disorders and who simply seek attention or some sort of retribution. Killing others as well as themselves generally is an easy and cowardly way to harbour attention while refusing to face the consequences of jail or continued existence. Taking away their means to kill (making guns illegal) or making it required to have a license or making automatic rifles/shotguns impossible to obtain, you simply bottleneck them into seeking more (less lethal/more constructive) ways of reconciling their feelings.
4) Why are comments that are harbouring ethos of sensationalism and heroism getting dugg? What the hell is wrong you people? Really? "If someone had a gun he would have taken out the killer." This isn't Metal Gear Solid. It's real life.
5) Look at other countries which have 4-10 murders by guns a year (as opposed to the U.S.'s 1000's). What critical difference is there? Guns are made illegal/hard to get.
I'm probably the only sane person on this website. (Digg Me Down)- itsradBrad, on 02/16/2008, -0/+1You're totally clueless.
I carry a firearm 24/7. I get mad at people all the time but I would never shoot anyone unless I had to in order to safe a life.
I was robbed at work once at gunpoint. I had 2 or 3 good opportunities to kill the man robbing me but I didn't.
Why? Because I could tell be the way he was holding the gun and carrying himself he wasn't going to shoot.
Its better to save your life and go through years of litigation and harassment than to die in my opinion. That said you should avoid action if there is any other way to solve the situation.- itsradBrad, on 02/16/2008, -0/+1Hehe "safe a life" I meant save a life.
- RedXIII, on 02/22/2008, -0/+1Who are you defending yourself from?
This state of constant fear, where the invisible enemy is always around the corner is not a sane way to carry out your life.
Put away your guns and invest trust in your fellow citizen. They're not that crazy.
You refuse to point out the fundamental differences between the US and other non-gun crazed nations.
Murder is NOT an intrinsic human desire. Stop carrying guns and you'll see that you're not going to get shot by your neighbours.
- itsradBrad, on 02/16/2008, -0/+1You're totally clueless.
- BeyondGoodNEvil, on 02/15/2008, -1/+4I think it'd be neat to see that happen once. The public outcry in support of the hero who defied the ***** "gun free zone" would make us rethink the very idea of it. It could really get a good dialogue going to reduce gun control. Gun control makes sense ONLY when the majority of people in an area are criminals. Everywhere else, which is most places, it makes no sense whatsoever.
- GOVStooge, on 02/15/2008, -3/+7Yes they do... I need more and I need to be able to carry them around with me
- kpmoore, on 02/15/2008, -4/+19Gun laws need to be eliminated, not elaborated. I am currently attending a large university and have seriously considered bringing a firearm to class in case something like this should happen. But if I were ever caught with it I would be seriously *****. Its a damn shame.
- kswo, on 02/15/2008, -2/+3Has nothing to do with gun laws. buried.
- pimpofpixels, on 02/15/2008, -5/+3I sorta think that Guns shouldn't be legal but it's IN THE CONSTITUTION so it doesn't really matter what I think about it. I wish that our Congress people would be as protective of the 1st and 4th amendments as they are the 2nd.
- nedzeve, on 02/15/2008, -0/+1There's no money in the 1st and 4th.
- Mikhail101, on 02/15/2008, -1/+3You realize if we outlaw guns like we do for drugs they will be 10x easier to get on the street, no I.D. no credentials no nothing. Many kids will own guns and start shooting all over the place, whats worse is all the good people will not have guns to defend themselves.
Its been said but here it goes: guns dont kill, only people- TheMarenum, on 02/15/2008, -1/+1We should just legalize them for medicinal purposes.
- maliath, on 02/15/2008, -2/+4How about we actually care for the mentally ill in this country?
- nedzeve, on 02/15/2008, -0/+2You're on the right track, but they don't get it.
- SquigglyP, on 02/15/2008, -2/+3no, people need to start GIVING A ***** and young people need to stop being so ***** stupid. But neither of these two things will ever happen, so people will continue to treate everyone else around them like crap, even as they are blissfully unaware of it, and young people will continue to do stupid things like kill other people because something trivial happened to them. "Oh no, my girlfriend broke up with me. I am so angry and stupid that I'll go attack someone." 99.9% of the time they do stupid ***** like go get drunk, trash someone's property, smash their car up, etc. Occasionally these stupid people get into fights or make a half hearted attempt to severely injure someone. In some rare cases these idiots kill themselves or pull some retarded ***** like this. This is almost always the case with every single one of these things. Something bad happened to a really ***** stupid person and they overreacted in a really obviously stupid way. Maybe... JUST MAYBE... they have some kind of emotional or mental problems, but I think most people just go looking for that solution so they can say to themselves "ahh, see... this guy was crazy. There's no way I could ever do something like that."
But i think most people could. - gallagherFTW, on 02/15/2008, -4/+1Shut up pussy.
- SNIPE07, on 02/15/2008, -2/+2Gun laws dont change anything, if laws where put in place, and some ***** up kid really wanted to kill some people, he could easily get a gun.
- coheedcollapse, on 02/15/2008, -4/+6How long have Digg users been a bunch of stupid gun nuts. I don't care what the hell you guys think, if guns were suddenly allowed to be carried around wherever the ***** we went, the downfalls would GREATLY outweigh the benefits. Sure if some ***** came in and tried to shoot up a room of people and some guy had a handgun they'd have more of a chance, but what about the harmless bar fistfight + gun? What about crazy assholes with road rage? And what about the fact that just about every drunk, uneducated hillbilly and his daughter will be toting shotguns wherever the hell they go. Still a good idea?
Sure, it might work in other countries where so many people don't have huge complexes concerning their power over other people, but America is totally not ready for completely free gun rules.- austinisi, on 02/15/2008, -0/+6You are sadly misinformed...
48 States have concealed carry laws. In 48 states, people can carry a hidden gun just about anywhere.
If you think less guns means less violence, please look at Washington DC.- coheedcollapse, on 02/15/2008, -1/+2I'm not an idiot, I know what concealed carry laws are and I know the states that allow it after thorough background checks, training, and the submission of fingerprints. People who want to carry their gun around really have to work for it, so every Tom, Dick, and Harry isn't going to be swinging their gun around wherever. They'll have proper training and hopefully enough discipline to know where and where not to use lethal force. Unfortunately, it seems that Digg users would rather gun ownership and concealment be a completely unrestricted affair, which frankly, scares the ***** out of me.
- austinisi, on 02/15/2008, -1/+2Your quote:
"I don't care what the hell you guys think, if guns were suddenly allowed to be carried around wherever the ***** we went, the downfalls would GREATLY outweigh the benefits."
I was pointing out that we have this in 48 states.
"America is totally not ready for completely free gun rules."
Not ready? I guess we must have lost our way, because I thought we had little to no restrictions many years ago.
Areas where there is more gun control are much more dangerous.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=qyoLuTjguJA - coheedcollapse, on 02/15/2008, -1/+2How long has entertainment news been a valid source of information. I'm sorry, but they pandered the hell out of the pro-gun field while ignoring any benefits to gun control (such as the statistics that I've already mentioned). They sneakily left out actual gun deaths while only citing general assault rates. They also hit upon the classic pro-gun example of DC while completely ignoring other states that argue FOR gun control rather than against it.
Plus, I assumed that you'd figure out exactly what I was talking about when you read the earlier comments. They're not complaining about the fact that people can't conceal guns, but rather the amount of control that is being put on them. My statement reflected my disdain for more lax gun control.
- austinisi, on 02/15/2008, -1/+2Your quote:
- coheedcollapse, on 02/15/2008, -1/+1"If you think less guns means less violence, please look at Washington DC."
You forget Alaska. Second place in most gun deaths (20 out of 100,00 which falls directly underneath DC's 31 out of 100,000). It also happens to have no rules on concealed weaponry.
I understand that Vermont sits at about 34th place with no restrictions on firearms, and that's great, but considering the fact that Hawaii, which is considered a "never issue" state has the lowest gun death ratio of all along with Massachusetts, New York, and New Jersey, which are all "may issue", gun control doesn't seem to be as horrific as you people act like it is.
- coheedcollapse, on 02/15/2008, -1/+2I'm not an idiot, I know what concealed carry laws are and I know the states that allow it after thorough background checks, training, and the submission of fingerprints. People who want to carry their gun around really have to work for it, so every Tom, Dick, and Harry isn't going to be swinging their gun around wherever. They'll have proper training and hopefully enough discipline to know where and where not to use lethal force. Unfortunately, it seems that Digg users would rather gun ownership and concealment be a completely unrestricted affair, which frankly, scares the ***** out of me.
- austinisi, on 02/15/2008, -0/+6You are sadly misinformed...
- iFrikkenR, on 02/15/2008, -5/+8How about just banning handguns and assault rifles? Honestly, those have no other purpose than killing another human being.
A rifle can be used for hunting, similarly a shotgun and sure, crimes like this would still take place without handguns or assault rifles, but the incidence would be greatly reduced.- austinisi, on 02/15/2008, -2/+7The founding fathers did not enact the 2nd amendment for hunting.
- iFrikkenR, on 02/16/2008, -0/+1No but a rifle or shotgun is useful for both hunting AND self defense/defending your home. and much more clumsy to use in an attack therefore reducing the number of said attacks/rampages/whatever.
i'm sure if the founding fathers saw that kids were going into schools and mowing down hundreds of students they'd change the gun laws too - they seemed a relatively smart bunch
- iFrikkenR, on 02/16/2008, -0/+1No but a rifle or shotgun is useful for both hunting AND self defense/defending your home. and much more clumsy to use in an attack therefore reducing the number of said attacks/rampages/whatever.
- bCabulon, on 02/15/2008, -0/+3How do you define assault rifles? Automatics are heavily regulated and almost never used in crime. If you include semi-auto weapons there is a big overlap between sporting models and scary black rifles. Would you place a ban based on cosmetics? A Ruger ranch rifle will kill just as well as an AK variant. Also, assault rifles are used in shooting sports. The AR-15 (semi auto version of the M-16) is the most popular rifle in the NRA high power matches. Some rifles that fall into most assault weapons lists make decent hunting rifles. The 7.62x39mm round used by the AK47, mini 30, and SKS rifles is ballistically similar to the 30-30 (the most popular chambering for deer hunting). A surplus SKS makes a very cheap yet effective deer rifle. Rifles are used in less than 4% of murders. Less than 1% of murders involve "assault rifles".
- Codename46, on 02/15/2008, -0/+1Lets ban all cars that go over 70mph while we're at it, right?
What part of "shall not be infringed" do you not understand?
- austinisi, on 02/15/2008, -2/+7The founding fathers did not enact the 2nd amendment for hunting.
- KiwiMark, on 02/15/2008, -4/+3How the hell can all you people digg this comment down. For ***** sake wake up, this is a weekly event in America.
- nedzeve, on 02/15/2008, -2/+2You must be new around here. FYI, the average DIGGer is age 16, white male, lives in the suburbs.
- PattycakesHaze, on 02/15/2008, -0/+1and judging by some people who are posting on digg, a good chunk live in the countryside...yehaw...
- nedzeve, on 02/15/2008, -2/+2You must be new around here. FYI, the average DIGGer is age 16, white male, lives in the suburbs.
- ashnbell, on 02/15/2008, -0/+2If it wasn't for the fact that there isn't meant to be much in the way of firearms at universitys and schools they'd probably not get as high a body count.
People start firing at cops because they've decided they don't like cops way more frequently than they start shooting at college students because they don't like them.
The fact cops are well armed means that the body count isn't usually very high.
When someone takes a dislike to students and starts shooting at them they are likely to kill a lot of people before they get taken out and hence the student haters outrage is a lot more memorable that the person who decides he wanted to shoot at well armed policemen. - darienphoenix, on 02/15/2008, -3/+5Why the ***** is this being dugg down?
Get a clue, America. Yours is the only developed country with a gun problem this big.- bCabulon, on 02/15/2008, -0/+4North Ireland, South Africa, Mexico, and Brazil all have higher gun murder rates than the US. They all have much stricter gun control laws too.
- darienphoenix, on 02/17/2008, -0/+1Why didn't you mention the UK, Australia, or anywhere in Europe?
- bCabulon, on 02/15/2008, -0/+4North Ireland, South Africa, Mexico, and Brazil all have higher gun murder rates than the US. They all have much stricter gun control laws too.
- jimjoke, on 02/15/2008, -0/+1Digg: "I loves mah gun. loves mah gun!"
- JDska55, on 02/15/2008, -0/+0one of my best friends goes to school there. He was two blocks from this building when it happened. For you to use this tragedy as a political tool THE DAY IT HAPPENS is disgusting.
Your comment simply exemplifies how little people care about each other anymore.
Go sit in the corner and think about what you said.
- notahippie76, on 02/14/2008, -4/+72Oh god, don't you know what you have started?
- Badfish, on 02/14/2008, -10/+17At least two have been shot. Great relief from the previous 18 mentioned. Hopefully it stays in the single digits.
- npg6913, on 02/15/2008, -1/+4two? at least 5 are dead. It's a shame that people need to act out and kill innocent people. My sympathies to the kids in Illinois
- Adam420, on 02/14/2008, -14/+5018 have been shot, 3 dead, including the gunman.
- steve_s, on 02/14/2008, -1/+14source?
- Adam420, on 02/14/2008, -1/+20Watching CNN
- aceakm, on 02/14/2008, -21/+4...Source?
- TizzleDizz, on 02/15/2008, -9/+1Learn to read, and have some respect.
- aceakm, on 02/15/2008, -7/+2Watching CNN isn't a source. And it's five dead.
- lust, on 02/15/2008, -7/+1Whats your source??? Onion News or Entertainment Tonight
- lust, on 02/15/2008, -5/+1.
- FatLoser, on 02/15/2008, -6/+3I've learned not to give ***** for credence to anything you ***** on digg say. I've retold "news" from this site to people IRL and I always end up looking like a ***** idiot when it gets debunked. ***** all your ***** conspiracy theories and ***** L Ron Hubbard and all of his clones.
- Adam420, on 02/14/2008, -1/+20Watching CNN
- Defuser, on 02/14/2008, -39/+9Thank you, ***** with a Potleaf Icon #4,566,221.
- serialvibe, on 02/15/2008, -0/+8Lol, are you always so angry in every thread?
- FallenWings, on 02/15/2008, -1/+4You're right, Defuser. Your contributions to this thread FAR outweigh those of Adam420. He is, after all, just a ***** hippy pothead.
/sarcasm, in case you didn't get it.
- hugeposuer, on 02/15/2008, -0/+35 dead including gunman now.. :(
- lightningrod220, on 02/15/2008, -0/+3I saw the 3 increase to 4, and screamed. No more!
- hugeposuer, on 02/15/2008, -1/+2I guess the only thing we can do is make delightful rhymes in a situation like this. :/
- lightningrod220, on 02/15/2008, -0/+2That wasn't intentional.
- hugeposuer, on 02/15/2008, -1/+2I guess the only thing we can do is make delightful rhymes in a situation like this. :/
- lightningrod220, on 02/15/2008, -0/+3I saw the 3 increase to 4, and screamed. No more!
- HxChris91, on 02/15/2008, -2/+1Unfortunately the gunman isn't still around so that we could use some "enhanced interrogation techniques"
- steve_s, on 02/14/2008, -1/+14source?
- Mr.Gone, on 02/14/2008, -15/+6At least 2 are dead.
- steve_s, on 02/14/2008, -2/+5if you getting that from cnn their reporting that at the moment two have been hospitalized, not dead
- Battousai778, on 02/14/2008, -3/+2no.... two are confirmed dead
- kewidogg, on 02/14/2008, -2/+1Link? Cause I checked as many news sites as I could and saw nothing about 2 dieing, all say anywhere from 2 - 4 students critically injured (but no fatalities listed)
- Battousai778, on 02/14/2008, -3/+2no.... two are confirmed dead
- arcooke, on 02/14/2008, -2/+2According to CNN the only one confirmed dead so far is the shooter.
- steve_s, on 02/14/2008, -2/+5if you getting that from cnn their reporting that at the moment two have been hospitalized, not dead
- bgrah449, on 02/14/2008, -8/+123Here's hoping they don't show the name or the face of the gunman. RIP to the victims. Prayers to the families
- Mouser58907, on 02/14/2008, -29/+4Why? He shouldn't have to take responsibility for his actions?
- bgrah449, on 02/14/2008, -4/+1071) He did take responsibility; he is dead.
2) The line between being famous and infamous is pretty thin. Criminality should be rewarded with obscurity.- soot, on 02/14/2008, -2/+20I agree entirely. The media always makes the worst of these things, but I suppose there's no way around it.
- slvrbullet87, on 02/14/2008, -1/+14He kiled himslef, he took the easy way out
- moskaudancer, on 02/14/2008, -0/+12He became a coward as soon as he decided to take out his anger on the people around him.
- Chongo, on 02/15/2008, -2/+1Here F'n here.
- sundancekid503, on 02/14/2008, -0/+55I think he means that we shouldn't be making the shooters famous. I agree.
- Vetteguy182, on 02/14/2008, -6/+3Because when they see he's a degenerate with a huge trench coat, they'll blame it on video games...
- bgrah449, on 02/14/2008, -4/+1071) He did take responsibility; he is dead.
- CTK14A, on 02/14/2008, -11/+6I only want to hear about it on Opie & Anthony, where this guy will be thoroughly humiliated instead of memorialized. After Virginia Tech they read the awful plays written by that Suk Phat Hwang loser, set to dinner-theater music. It made me aware of what a douche-hat the VT killer was (I mean, that coupled with murdering innocent people).
- universalpants, on 02/15/2008, -7/+4The reason these people act out like this is because they don't interact normally with the rest of society and people call them things like "douche-hat".
- bluto36, on 02/15/2008, -4/+5why do they not interact normally with the rest of society?
because they are giant douche-hats - SuperCUBE, on 02/15/2008, -1/+4It may be circular, but it ultimately lies on them; the fault.
- bluto36, on 02/15/2008, -4/+5why do they not interact normally with the rest of society?
- universalpants, on 02/15/2008, -7/+4The reason these people act out like this is because they don't interact normally with the rest of society and people call them things like "douche-hat".
- Steroblo, on 02/15/2008, -0/+12As long as the media keeps giving these psychos a bunch of face time, the people capable of committing these crimes will continue to.
- SquigglyP, on 02/15/2008, -0/+12your expectations are WAY too high for journalism. They ARE going to show his face, name, age, mental health history, arrest record, home videos, family photos, and then probably do some 'live' piece while conveniently standing outside his parent's house with the address clearly visible, name the street and area of what city they are in, and then mention that both of them don't work, are home all day, EXCEPT tuesday, when they go shopping and when they goto church. Oh, and this is the church they go to.
They may as well offer a reward to whomever can send the first death threat.- eightfivezero, on 02/15/2008, -0/+4Dugg your comment for truth. :(
- Mouser58907, on 02/14/2008, -29/+4Why? He shouldn't have to take responsibility for his actions?
- Flashman, on 02/14/2008, -16/+499Pro-gun: "More guns would have killed the perpetrator quicker with fewer casualties!"
Anti-gun: "We need stricter gun controls so this doesn't happen again!"
The next-worst thing after each shooting is the "debate" that follows, in which the same people say the same things and nobody changes their mind but we all get older.- legoalert33, on 02/14/2008, -7/+72Jack Thompson: "Its violent video games"
R.I.P. - george2gfm, on 02/14/2008, -6/+61Illinois is very strict on gun laws, possible the most strict
- salomejones, on 02/14/2008, -12/+10Yes, and you can still get a license to carry anywhere but Chicago.
- OverkillTASF, on 02/14/2008, -2/+16Maybe if you are a celebrity or a lawmaker. Otherwise, you can not carry a loaded gun.
http://www.concealcarry.org/carrylegal.htm- salomejones, on 02/14/2008, -4/+5That's for concealed carry. There's a difference.
- vtnerd, on 02/15/2008, -1/+6Concealed carry is what matters....
- OverkillTASF, on 02/15/2008, -0/+8Salomejones,
Concealed carry is synonymous with carrying a firearm at all. Open carry is somewhat rare, not because it is specifically outlawed but because people interpret the open carry of a firearm as "Brandishing" for some reason.
I live in Virginia and am required to openly carry when I am any place that serves alcohol. Applebees, Outback, local diner, whatever. Illinois flat out bans all carry of a loaded firearm.
- Christianptriot, on 02/15/2008, -3/+12You cannot legally carry a firearm loaded anywhere in Illinois unless you are crossing a corm field hunting deer or turkey. I have traveled a lot across the Midwest, and HATE to cross Illinois because you can NOT travel through or even be in the state with a loaded firearm. I have to stop, unload the handgun, lock it and the ammo in SEPARATE boxes that I cannot access from inside the vehicle.
- Mothrog, on 02/15/2008, -2/+7No, Illinois does not issue permits to carry. Nice to know you did your research before opening your mouth.
- gsensel, on 02/15/2008, -1/+3I went to college in IL and I had a professor who's brother refused to visit him because the brother always has at least 2 loaded weapons on him and that is not allowed there so he will not come.
- OverkillTASF, on 02/14/2008, -2/+16Maybe if you are a celebrity or a lawmaker. Otherwise, you can not carry a loaded gun.
- snapcase, on 02/15/2008, -2/+2Not like that would make a difference if Illinois has better CCW laws. Last I checked even if you have a CCW you can't carry on any university grounds in any state. I may be wrong but that's the way I recall it.
- OverkillTASF, on 02/15/2008, -1/+2At least in Virginia, public college campuses (Except for VCU for some reason) are legal to carry on, but it is against school policy to do so, and you will get kicked out of school (or lose your job if you're faculty) for breaking that policy. Same basic idea though. If you're going to kill someone and kill yourself, you don't care what the law OR the school policy says.
I contest that it wouldn't have mattered because there just aren't enough people interested in making the necessary sacrifices that concealed carry and gun ownership demands. Though I carry, I recognize that VERY few people, even those with their CCW, make the choice to go out on a day to day basis armed.
- OverkillTASF, on 02/15/2008, -1/+2At least in Virginia, public college campuses (Except for VCU for some reason) are legal to carry on, but it is against school policy to do so, and you will get kicked out of school (or lose your job if you're faculty) for breaking that policy. Same basic idea though. If you're going to kill someone and kill yourself, you don't care what the law OR the school policy says.
- salomejones, on 02/14/2008, -12/+10Yes, and you can still get a license to carry anywhere but Chicago.
- stevetheninja, on 02/14/2008, -7/+2It's happening here (this story) already, and it's not even close to time to debate. We don't even have enough details on what happened to draw any conclusions, and furthermore (and more importantly, in my opinion), it's rather insensitive.
- akatherder, on 02/14/2008, -0/+4Oh, so now we need facts and details to debate? I am LOADED with preconceived notions though.
- KyleGoetz, on 02/14/2008, -5/+142Perhaps the government cannot solve all our problems. School shootings are symptomatic of a diseased society, not an ineffectual government.
- ReadItAndWeep, on 02/14/2008, -1/+36We have a winner. Unfortunately, people want to hear easy answers for a complex problem.
- lightningrod220, on 02/15/2008, -1/+4"if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land." -- 2 Chronicles 7:14
Sorry, but it had to be said. We're breeding a nation of Lex Luthors.
- lightningrod220, on 02/15/2008, -1/+4"if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land." -- 2 Chronicles 7:14
- towny, on 02/14/2008, -15/+8School shootings are symptomatic of a 'diseased' society AND the ease of access to weapons for people to commit these acts.
We have quite a large knobhead proportion here in the UK but I can most definately say that without successive gun-reduction legislation, the Hungerfords and Dunblanes (though not strictly isolated to pyschopathic sprees) over here would be a lot more frequent.
Not saying it would work in the US though, considering the momentum behind the pro-gun lobby after years of legal ownership; something that was not seen in the UK.- HerrEisenheim, on 02/15/2008, -1/+8It won't work in the US because the US is too ***** big. We can't stop drugs or anything else from coming in from every which angle. Hell, we can't even stop illegal immigrants from Mexico from flowing into California or Texas. At least drugs have a smell and you can use dogs. A Glock really doesn't have a unique scent.
Any attempt to ban firearms in the US would be a useless effort, even if it was able to pass legislation.- KyleGoetz, on 02/15/2008, -0/+2I'm pro-gun, but gunpowder does have a scent.
- FairDinkumMate, on 02/15/2008, -1/+1That seems a bit of a defeatist attitude. Sure, change the laws tomorrow & it wouldn't have much effect. But in the long term, imagine how many of your citizens(the majority I assume) ARE law abiding & would give up their guns. This would make it MUCH harder for depressed kids to get hold of them & go on similar rampages. On top of that, imagine how many other types of criminals would be arrested simply for carrying a gun.
Australia also had a HUGE gun mentality until a shooting spree in Port Arthur, Tasmania in 1996 which created the political(& social) will to make some changes & I assure you that we are a better country for it.
- HerrEisenheim, on 02/15/2008, -1/+8It won't work in the US because the US is too ***** big. We can't stop drugs or anything else from coming in from every which angle. Hell, we can't even stop illegal immigrants from Mexico from flowing into California or Texas. At least drugs have a smell and you can use dogs. A Glock really doesn't have a unique scent.
- mcm020, on 02/15/2008, -0/+8Kyle, thanks for your sound reason and logic. It's comforting to know not everyone is an idiot.
- Gemfinder, on 02/15/2008, -0/+8[Nodding] I was just thinking that.
People like the pat answers: "It's television," "It's rock/rap/what-have-you music," "It's movies," "It's videogames," "More gun control!" "Metal detectors in all the schools!" And yet it keeps happening. A school massacre, more strictures implemented, and then another school massacre.
Will "understanding" and "outreach" help? There's no way to tell for sure, because when you have something like this happen you don't know if the measures you take to prevent it happening again are working, until they fail.
I had a thought, and this will probably get me Dugg down, but I thought, "This is to the USA as suicide bombings are to the Middle East. The perp always winds up dead, takes a crowd with him, and they both do it for the STUPIDEST of reasons." - tatinthehat, on 02/15/2008, -1/+3Agreed. I don't think gun control is the sole answer here.
Our generation has been so consumed by this idea that the self is the only important thing in life, and now we see the result of a maniac who carries this mentality.
Gun control isn't the only thing we should think about changing. It's the mind set of our kids we need to change. Ultimately, who decides to shoot the bullet?
- ReadItAndWeep, on 02/14/2008, -1/+36We have a winner. Unfortunately, people want to hear easy answers for a complex problem.
- salomejones, on 02/14/2008, -27/+8*sigh*. These shootings mostly happen in places where possession of firearms IS legal. Something isn't working.
- jcm267, on 02/14/2008, -1/+21It was legal to Possess a firearm on the school grounds at Columbine, at Northern Illinois University, at Virginia Tech?
- OverkillTASF, on 02/14/2008, -1/+5Can't speak to the others, but carrying at Virginia Tech is technically legal, but against school policy and will get you kicked out of school (or fired if you're an employee). Problem is, even in places where it is legal, not enough good people decided to do so. Maybe you're allowed to carry there, but if you're not carrying, what's the difference?
- salomejones, on 02/14/2008, -7/+4I mean the states and counties, jcm. Please try to open your mind a little bit and stop acting like a redneck. I can tell already you can read---thats a great start.
- jcm267, on 02/15/2008, -1/+10http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0777958.html
Please provide me with an analysis of each location's gun control laws at the time of the shooting. After you are done, please provide me with an analysis of how many students would have died in the Appalachian School of Law shooting had there not been students who had guns in their cars to stop the shooter.
I look forward to your reply. Maybe you're the ignorant, pompous prick that you appear to be. - jcm267, on 02/15/2008, -0/+7http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_massacre
Please use this list instead. I'm looking forward to your analysis on each incident. - Mothrog, on 02/15/2008, -2/+5Spoken like a true, arrogant jackass living with the presumption that nothing bad can ever happen to them. And FYI, retard, "rednecks" are far from the only ones that own guns.
- salomejones, on 02/15/2008, -1/+2http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=texas+shootin ...
q.e.d. - salomejones, on 02/16/2008, -0/+1@jcm267: Instead, let me point you to any number of Noam Chomsky's essays on the subject. I'm sure you can find them, as you appear to somehow be in possession of opposable thumbs...unless you're slapping the space bar with your penis.
- jcm267, on 02/15/2008, -1/+10http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0777958.html
- djbon2112, on 02/14/2008, -2/+9*****, I misread "legal" to say "illegal" and accidentally dug you up. I meant to dig you down because you're an idiot. See jcm267's comment.
- hollyberrry, on 02/15/2008, -0/+6You are sadly mistaken, my friend. Schools are gun free 'crime' zones.
It is not legal to carry concealed on school property.
- jcm267, on 02/14/2008, -1/+21It was legal to Possess a firearm on the school grounds at Columbine, at Northern Illinois University, at Virginia Tech?
- laserpig, on 02/14/2008, -7/+5Seriously, the only time people
- legoalert33, on 02/14/2008, -7/+72Jack Thompson: "Its violent video games"