digg

Facebook Connect Join Digg About

Arizona approves bill allowing guns in bars

msnbc.msn.com — The Arizona Senate has given final approval to a bill that would allow people with concealed weapons permits to carry a gun into a business that serves alcohol. Critics of the measure say guns and alcohol are a dangerous combination.

Who dugg this? Made popular Jul 2, 2009

Digg DudeWhat is Digg?

Digg is a place for people to discover and share content from anywhere on the web. Digg surfaces the best stuff as submitted and voted on by the community. Take the Tour to learn more.

340 Comments

show profanity settings
expand all
  • 45superman, on 07/01/2009, -22/+106FTA: "Critics of the measure say guns and alcohol are a dangerous combination."

    What those critics conveniently leave out is that this bill changes nothing with regard to the illegality of drinking while packing--that stays illegal.
  • maz2331, on 07/02/2009, -2/+52Geez. In Pennsylvania it's totally legal to be plowed in a bar with a concealed weapon and a permit. I don't recall many (or any) cases where a permit-holder drunkenly blew someone away here. The only bar shootings that ever seem to occur are unlicensed "gangsters" opening fire, and it's already illegal for them to be packing.
  • Dimensio, on 07/01/2009, -25/+68Advocates of increased firearms restrictions frequently omit or misrepresent facts because they are unable to justify their position through actual references to demonstrable reality.
  • mhemu, on 07/02/2009, -4/+45Nice to see I'll finally be able to eat somewhere other than McDonald's now without having to worry about my firearm getting stolen from my vehicle due to moronic laws and a politicians fears.

    MSNBC did the same thing the media here in AZ tried to do, make it out to be something it's not. The measure is about being able to carry a firearm into an establishment that serves alcohol. Right now in AZ, as a legal CCW holder who has gone through training and an FBI background check, I cannot step foot into a place that serves liquor for consumption; that's a class 2 misdemeanor. That means I can't have lunch at Chili's, pop in to a Chipotle when I'm out with my friends, or even go into a Steak Escape; purely because they have a liqour license. The measure is most assuredly NOT about going out drinking to a bar while "packing heat". The law states that I am qualified to walk around with a firearm, but when a building contains a liqour license, I lose my mind, get wasted and shoot everyone? Get real.
  • WraTH017, on 07/01/2009, -13/+46So... only designated drivers can carry?

    I mean, what's the point of going to a bar if you're not going to drink? The free peanuts?
  • 45superman, on 07/01/2009, -9/+41Reading comprehension problems, Anomaly, or did you just decide to enlighten us with your wisdom without have actually read the article?

    FTA: "The measure would ban drinking while packing and allow restaurants to deny entry to gun-toting citizens by posting a sign next to their liquor license."

    Save us from the idiocy of the anti-gun extremists.
  • LawScholar, on 07/02/2009, -2/+33Roughly half of these posts comment about how drunk people have guns now, ignoring that the law still makes that illegal.

    They claim that "It's going to happen anyway, people will break the law." However, it's already against the law to carry without a permit as well as to murder people, yet criminals still do.

    Furthermore, it is impossible to tell at a glance if someone is carrying. How do you know that there aren't already multiple individuals in the bars you frequent who are carrying, legally or not? Few bars require being searched at the door.

    This bill has only the potential to reduce crime, not increase it. There are no solid logical arguments otherwise.
  • ZenDriver, on 07/02/2009, -9/+38I carry almost all of the time...

    Often the laws are written in such a way that you cannot enter an establishment (while carrying) that derives more than 50% of income from alcohol sales. There are plenty of nice places to eat here in Portland that would fall on the "No Carry" side of that equation. I also generally don't drink, but if I am going out with my friends, why should I be forced to get rid of my firearm?

    Really though, this bill is just a win for personal responsibility trumping blanket restrictions. If the state trusts someone enough to allow them to carry a firearm, than it makes no sense to not trust them once they enter an establishment that sells alcohol.

    Furthermore, the fact is that other CCW states have similar laws (or more accurately, a lack of restrictions in the first place) and the whole "Drunk CCW holder in a bar" has never been much of an issue. Again, this is about anti-gun types cooking up fantasy scenarios that are simply not born out by the evidence provided in other jurisdictions that say those fantasy scenarios never (or at best, very rarely) happen.

    (See, the bloodbath the expiration of the assault weapons ban was going to produce, or how concealed carry was going to turn fender benders into gunfights, or bar brawls into shootouts... none of this has happened).
  • Midtowner, on 07/02/2009, -10/+37It'd still be up to the bar whether to allow these folks in or not. No big deal, IMHO. Without this piece of legislation, the only folks carrying guns into bars would be the bad guys.
  • Dimensio, on 07/01/2009, -4/+28"Don't be such an ass."

    Your "ad hominem" attack does not alter the factual correctness of 45superman's statement. Your initial claim was based upon a false premise.
  • Dimensio, on 07/01/2009, -5/+29The consumption of alcoholic beverages while in possession of a concealed deadly weapon would remain illegal under the proposed legislation. Either you have not actually studied the proposal, and thus your claims lack any credibility, or you are lying, and thus your claims lack any credibility.
  • rda1441, on 07/02/2009, -12/+36"Critics of the measure say guns and alcohol are a dangerous combination."

    Critics of this bill are the same who are against guns being anywhere.....cry baby sissies.
  • Midtowner, on 07/02/2009, -8/+31What's scared and paranoid about carrying a firearm?

    Do you lock your car? The door to your home? Some folks consider it a basic part of protecting themselves and their family. The fact that people do dumb things while under the influence is precisely why this is a good law.
  • LawScholar, on 07/02/2009, -6/+25It's not a matter of "needing" to carry a firearm, it's a matter of having the right to. I don't "need" to protest when the government doesn't something I don't like. Usually my single voice doesn't do much. Having the right, though, prevents larger atrocities. An armed populace can defend itself. An armed populace means that criminals doesn't know if the person they're thinking about mugging might have something that can beat their knife.

    Admiral Isoroku Hirohito, a Japanese Admiral in World War 2 (and one who opposed going to war with the United States from the start), claimed that America would never be seized by a foreign power via land invasion because there would be "a rifle behind every stalk of grass."

    Plus, as a concealed carrier myself, sometimes I do find myself in unpleasant neighborhoods through circumstance or necessity (visiting a store or a friend) and it does provide a degree of comfort having a firearm that I can use safely and competently.
  • LawScholar, on 07/02/2009, -5/+23homercles,

    I am a liberal democrat, and extremely pro-gun. Do not equate right wing with gun rights as though the two are causally linked.

    Also, calling people "***** dopes" does not say much about your own intelligent argumentation skills, and calling a justification "stupid" does not render it invalid. Nothing about what you said provided any sort of rational argument against Midtowner's position.
  • ChronicColonic, on 07/01/2009, -4/+22An illegal combination as well. Just because you can conceal carry into a drink establishment does not give you the green light to drink while carrying.
  • techweenie, on 07/02/2009, -4/+18Surprising number of posts saying 'it's against the law to be drunk & carrying,' as if that made this idea a good one. 10,000 gun homicides a year are also against the law. But they still happen. It isn't responsible gun owners who are the problem. It never is.
  • Frostek, on 07/01/2009, -17/+30guns and alcohol *are* a dangerous combination
  • inactive, on 07/02/2009, -2/+151. Making it illegal wouldn't stop a madman from carrying a gun into a bar
    2. If it wasn't guns, it'd be knives
  • inactive, on 07/02/2009, -1/+14The property owner of the bar can still kick you out if he doesn't want guns.
  • YoWhatDaFuxUp, on 07/02/2009, -1/+14This bill has already passed in Tennessee and goes into effect in 14 days.
    http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2009/jun/05/ten ...
  • thefezman, on 07/02/2009, -1/+13The great part of this law is that it allows people to carry in restaurants that serve alcohol, not just bars. Half the places I go to for lunch serve alcohol, and I have to leave my gun in the car, leaving it vulnerable to theft.
  • Presbyterian, on 07/02/2009, -3/+15LOL, the gun grabbers are the ones who are scared and paranoid.
  • inactive, on 07/02/2009, -1/+13and please think of something else to post instead of spamming the same garbage 5 million times in a single thread.
  • lowerdown, on 07/02/2009, -0/+12or he could kick you out for not having one
  • Ryan32, on 07/02/2009, -3/+15Mike, when you start creating laws based on what the minority (stupid) people will do... Your heading down a slippery slope.

    Most concealed carry people I know (including myself) are extremely responsible. More-so than you would imagine, because we know if we make 1 small mistake it'll be our asses.

    Again, you can't create laws based on the dumbass minority.... Unless you want laws that outlaw everything. Literally.
  • ZenDriver, on 07/02/2009, -4/+16None of this stuff seems to be happening in the 40 or so states that allow licensed carry of firearms.

    I am getting quite sick of anti-gun hysteria that creeps into these debates because the reality is that mountains of data from states like Florida (where the CCW legislation mandated very strict records be kept) has repeatedly proven that the sort of people who would go into the police department, get fingerprinted, go through certified firearms training and pass an FBI conducted background check are not the sort of people predisposed to be committing crimes in the first place. Furthermore, putting a firearm in their hands doesn't suddenly make them morons. Hell, CCW holders in Florida are an order of magnitude less likely to be indicted on criminal charges, per capita, than Florida police officers.
  • sockpuppets, on 07/02/2009, -4/+15Easy targets, drunks don't move as fast.
  • inactive, on 07/02/2009, -6/+17easy solution...follow the law and if you are carrying a gun in a bar, don't drink. People who think that they can't enjoy a night at a bar or club with friends without drinking are sad.. If your life sucks so much that you need to destroy brain cells to enjoy it, then perhaps it is not good that you have a gun. Sooner or later the thought of how sad your life is may make you point the gun at yourself.
  • falstaff, on 07/02/2009, -3/+14And if some drunk carries a gun into a bar illegally and starts a fight (which they could do just as easily today as after the law takes effect), would you rather:
    A) wait through 5-10 minutes of shooting for the cops to bring the body bags, or
    B) allow a DD to attempt to protect himself and his fellow patrons?
  • byrdboy, on 07/02/2009, -1/+12If he's breaking the don't-drink-while-carrying law, who's to say he doesn't already have one in the bar even though it's not allowed either?

    Are they strip-searching everyone at the door?

    False logic, my boy.
  • thefezman, on 07/02/2009, -2/+13The same thing that happened in the other states with similar laws... nothing.
  • Stevanoski, on 07/01/2009, -12/+22In my younger days if you had asked me to fight for $100 I would have told you that you were crazy. But put fifty cents on the pool table and some one thinks it's their turn, well the fight was on.

    Remember knocking one feller down who thought I'd taken his turn, saw him trying to pull up his pants from where they covered his cowboy boots so used a pool cue to smite his wrist. Went over and pulled out a little .22 nine shot. Woke me up. Could have been in the obit.s the next day.

    Lost my feeling of invincibility that night.
  • vurdillac, on 07/02/2009, -2/+12The gay community should support this- they are at a greater risk for getting bashed going to or coming from a bar. If you are facing down a group with baseball bats, a gun would be a good equalizer. Surprised my state (Texas) didn't come up with this first.
  • 45superman, on 07/02/2009, -5/+15@wcbb "Let's see. You (Gun lovers) are all paranoid. Do you have to carry your penis-errr-gun everywhere? Are 'they' out to get you?"

    Ah--the anti-gun extremist's favorite fall-back argument--that gun rights advocates (even the female ones) are compensating for the inadequacy of their penises.

    Alright, wcbb, I admit it--you're right. My penis IS inadequate. It's entirely incapable of launching a .45 caliber, 230 grain lead and copper projectile at 850 feet per second (let alone following it up with 7 more just like it), and is thus woefully inadequate for defense of my life and liberty.

    So I compensate. If your penis is as good in a mortal fight as my M1911, you're one bad ass mofo, and I bow to your badassery.
  • JFitzpatrick, on 07/02/2009, -2/+12Everyone and I do mean *everyone* I know, myself included, that has a concealed permit is very serious about it and treating having one with the proper gravity and respect it deserves. Even guys I know that aren't the brightest guys you'll ever meet and might be called out and out dense by some... don't take it lightly.

    While I'll grant you that my inclination for responsibility also includes not going to bars and getting ***** faced and being stupid (concealed pistol my motivator for responsibility or not) you still wouldn't catch me doing something like drinking and packing heat.

    There are however a lot of places that have lost my patronage over the concealed carry issue. In Michigan the law is such that if a place derives more than half their income from the sale of alcohol they are off limits for CCW. So even though I won't be drinking that night, I'm not welcome there and will suggest another location. In the end half a dozen potential patrons of that establishment, myself included will end up at another location.

  • BubDBuilder, on 07/02/2009, -1/+10Internet Tough Guy Alert
  • johndavidjack, on 07/02/2009, -1/+10Why don't you stay at home then. Guns are allowed outside of bars, so you might get shot in the parking lot.
  • Dimensio, on 07/02/2009, -2/+11"Let's see. You (Gun lovers) are all paranoid. Do you have to carry your penis-errr-gun everywhere? Are "they" out to get you?"

    Your statement constitutes a valid data point consistent with my statement. Rather than reference actual fact, you have instead claimed that I am paranoid. You have also made reference to male genitalia; I have observed that a disproportionate number of individuals in support of unreasonable firearms restrictions frequently make inappropriate and irrelevant reference to male genitals. This has led me to speculate that there may be a psychological connection between support for unreasonable firearms restrictions and a mental obsession with male genitals.
  • lowerdown, on 07/02/2009, -2/+11You might grow a ***** brain and realize that NOT A ***** THING WILL HAPPEN BECAUSE OF THIS
  • Samueul, on 07/02/2009, -3/+12Many states have that law. As long as it's not posted you're perfectly legal to CCW in a bar in PA..... Just because you are in a bar, doesn't mean you're drinking etc...
  • sarahlee, on 07/01/2009, -16/+25Since I am not going to bars in AZ - I think it is a good idea. Eliminate the stupid faster.
  • Nysul, on 07/02/2009, -2/+11Really, you're in Arizona, where you can openly carry a firearm in nearly any location (no government buildings or schools) without any license whatsoever, where there is no waiting list to purchase a firearm, and you're afraid of being shot?

    That's like living in Oregon and complaining about no sales tax. If you don't like guns get the ***** out of the south. There are more than enough places that are scared to death of guns that can accommodate you (California, New York, etc).
  • thefezman, on 07/02/2009, -2/+11Now if they could only make the criminals follow the law... oh wait, then there wouldn't be any criminals.
  • Zomgondo, on 07/02/2009, -0/+8My best friend was killed by a lock, you insensitive clod!
  • spritom, on 07/02/2009, -3/+11How about posting a sign on your front lawn stating #3?
  • thefezman, on 07/02/2009, -4/+12It's not a matter of being scared and paranoid. It's a matter of being realistic. ***** happens, and if you aren't prepared for it, then you will become a statistic.
  • ZenDriver, on 07/02/2009, -3/+11I carry because there are people like this in the world:

    http://nwahomepage.com/content/fulltext_news/?cid= ...

    Here was a woman who had a restraining order out on her ex boyfriend. She called the police as he was walking towards her apartment. By the time they got there, she was effectively already dead (the fact that they shot her in the head, through a window, is merely a reflection of the crappy position the police were put into given that they couldn't enter the apartment).

    If this woman had a firearm, she would have stood a decent fighting chance of saving her own life. Instead, folks like you argue that she need not have the right to defend herself and should only rely on the police (i.e. by denying the tools of self defense, you deny the basic right of self defense). Furthermore, folks like you seem to think that any of us who do exercise the right to defend ourselves are some bunch of nutbags.

    And don't think that being in Canada somehow gives you a pass on this. I am sure the gentleman who was strangled and who was being eaten by that goblin on the bus a few months ago probably wished he had a Glock on him so that he could at least have had a fighting chance?

    Or are the good folks simply supposed to live in some sort of enlightened, disarmed state and be subjected to the whims of thugs?

    "Everyone agrees with the idea of how beautiful a pacifist utopia would be. The trouble is that half the people think it sounds like a wonderful place to live while the other half believe it to be a fantastic place to plunder."
  • thefezman, on 07/02/2009, -1/+9Hint: 40 other states already have a law like this on the books.
  • opitica, on 07/02/2009, -5/+12oh my god that was horribly written
  • Fetching more discussions...
    Show 51 - 100 of 346 discussions

  • Add a Comment

    Login or register to comment!
    Or, sign-in super fast with your Facebook account ...


© Digg Inc. 2009 — Content created and posted by Digg users is dedicated to the public domain | Terms of Use Updated | Privacy Policy
DIGG, DIGG IT, DUGG, DIGG THIS, Digg graphics, logos, designs, page headers, button icons, scripts, and other service names are the trademarks of Digg Inc.