What is Digg?886 Comments
- lydecker, on 04/02/2008, -14/+212Okay, the part that's the worst is this: "Later that day, assistant principal Cale Jackson told the boy his religious expression infringed on other students' rights." In what way? None.
- UncleCrapper, on 04/02/2008, -12/+185Actually, the ACLU has gone to bat and court for Christian rights on numerous occasions.
The ACLU sued to stop a high school in Michigan from censoring student's religious year book entries:
http://www.aclu.org/studentsrights/expression/1284 ...
The ACLU sued a Rhode Island prison for restricting the religious rights of a Christian who wanted to preach to fellow inmates:
http://www.aclu.org/religion/discrim/31346prs20070 ...
The ACLU publicly announces their support for the rights of students to distribute Christian literature in school:
http://www.aclu.org/studentsrights/religion/12811p ...
The ACLU successfully sued the city of Natchitoches, Louisiana for unconstitutionally restricting the rights of Christian protesters:
http://www.aclu.org/religion/frb/28163prs20070129. ...
The stated mission of the ACLU is as follows:
The mission of the ACLU is to preserve all of these protections and guarantees:
* Your First Amendment rights - freedom of speech, association and assembly; freedom of the press, and freedom of religion.
* Your right to equal protection under the law - equal treatment regardless of race, sex, religion or national origin.
* Your right to due process - fair treatment by the government whenever the loss of your liberty or property is at stake.
* Your right to privacy - freedom from unwarranted government intrusion into your personal and private affairs.
If you want to perpetuate the ***** that Christians in America are a persecuted minority and that the ACLU is a bunch of atheist Christian haters, go right ahead. The reality is the ACLU stands for the rights of everyone, and the only bigots I see are Christians who can't stand to see someone who has the audacity to worship, think or speak differently than you. - Equalizer, on 04/02/2008, -39/+189Sad that if this was an Islamic crescent it would be proudly displayed as a sign of the school's "diversity".....
- animalwheeler, on 04/02/2008, -5/+92FTA: "Millin showed the student a policy for the class that prohibited any violence, blood, sexual connotations or religious beliefs in artwork. The lawsuit claims Millin told the boy he had signed away his constitutional rights when he signed the policy at the beginning of the semester. ...
Sometime after that meeting, the boy's metals teacher rejected his idea to build a chain-mail cross, telling him it was religious and could offend someone, the lawsuit claims. ..."
but yet:
"Drawings of Medusa, the Grim Reaper with a scythe and a being with a horned head and protruding tongue hang in the art room and demonic masks are displayed in the metals room, the lawsuit alleges."
and also:
"A Buddha and Hindu figurines are on display in a social studies classroom, the lawsuit claims, adding the teacher passionately teaches Hindu principles to students.
In addition, a replica of Michaelangelo's "The Creation of Man" is displayed at the school's entrance, a picture of a six-limbed Hindu deity is in the school's hallway and a drawing of a robed sorcerer hangs on a hallway bulletin board."
One side of the road or the other. If it wrong for him, it is wrong for the others. If all the other displays are not "infringing" on students' rights, then neither is A.P.'s dwg. - alkajazz, on 04/02/2008, -16/+93"Our nation is a Christian nation" I need some proof to back up this claim. Also the ACLU defends EVERYONES Civil liberties. I could never understand how the religious fundamentalists think they are an evil organization trying to crush Christian beliefs.
- carpespasm, on 04/02/2008, -0/+73indeed. Even as an atheist this comes off as the school being over PC to the point of being flat stupid. Whooptee-do.
- lydecker, on 04/02/2008, -10/+78"Our nation is a Christian nation, always was." Not true, Rjwusa says it very well:
http://digg.com/political_opinion/Atheists_on_Digg ...
"To sum up, the United States was not created as a Christian nation. Rather, the laws of the United States, and the founding fathers were influenced by English Common law, which is traced back to the Magna Carta, which was written and influenced be the Judeo/Christian ethic and written by men of faith. The United States is not a nation based on religion. The United States is a Nation built by men of faith, in an attempt to protect the right of everyman to believe as he wishes and to practice the faith that he wants to practice, or not to practice." - ApokalypseNow, on 04/02/2008, -3/+71Whatever happened to "I disagree with what you're saying, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"? I would think the same principal applies here.
- momw, on 04/02/2008, -8/+73Amendment 1 of the Constitution reads as the following: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
The first part of the First Amendment states that Congress cannot set up a state church or take away people's right to worship God. The second part states that each citizen is guaranteed the right to free speech and press, to meet together in a peaceable manner, and to petition the government to right any wrongs.
Amendments 1-10 are known as the Bill of Rights. These amendments protect the citizens against excessive power of the federal government.
I hope that this boy wins his case. - brycelb, on 04/02/2008, -14/+77Had to bury you for ignorantly referring to the US as a Christian Nation. Nothing could be further from our founding principles. While I hope the school gets it's ass spanked on this one, I am sure you would be rallying behind the school if they were banning something Gay or Muslim.
- Mom2GIQM, on 04/02/2008, -4/+52Signing a school policy should never negate one's constitutional rights. Parents be careful what you or your students sign!!!! Challenge it from the start
- samurimaster, on 04/02/2008, -7/+52Thank you for making Christians look bad as if we didn't have enough things doing it.
- filemeaway, on 04/02/2008, -11/+53Your ignorance is staggering.
- cersad, on 04/02/2008, -19/+59I am absolutely flabbergasted by these comments. "Christian nation?" "The holy fight?" "End of days?" "Decaying morals?" Since when did one kid's right to free expression in a public school suddenly equate to a sign of the Rapture? Here's news, guys, free expression in public schools is restrained for more than just religious reasons. This school system will get what's coming to it, and life will GO ON.
And as an aside, quit trying to pretend like America is a Christian nation, and quit trying to mix your politics with your faith. In case you don't learn history in your fundamentalist foxholes, it's already been tried, and the results were that both the religion AND the state became corrupted. - lydecker, on 04/02/2008, -11/+50*sticks fingers in ears* LALALA the ACLU hates Christianity, not just when Christians are intolerant, but ALL CHRISTIANITY! They want us all dead, they want it eroded!
No, they and the rest of the world would like it fixed, just as the world now focuses on how to fix Islam and save it from extremists. - arcooke, on 04/02/2008, -7/+45I absolutely hate it when people say this is a "christian nation". Why do people call it that? Because the country is predominantly christian. It's also predominantly white. How well do you think that would go over with non-whites if we started calling this country a "white nation"? What makes calling the country a christian nation ANY less offensive to non-christians? It sure as hell offends me. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
- jumbalia, on 04/02/2008, -4/+40yet if the same thing happened to a student who wasn't allowed to express his love of Islam would you be so irate?
"forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us" You don't sound too forgiving...
I myself am an atheist, but I also feel the student's rights were infringed upon. These teacher's don't need to be punished - they were simply acting on school policy. It's the policy that need to be thrown out, not the teachers. - LifeguardMom, on 04/02/2008, -13/+49I hope this family wins their lawsuit. There is no reason this project should have been rejected. I thought art was all about freedom of expression? Shame on this school
I hope the parents pull him out and home school him.
Public schools are detrimental to the creativity of our children! - rnwen2750, on 04/02/2008, -9/+42The ACLU is known for protecting the rights of all citizens of all religions, creeds, races, etc. There have been numerous landmark cases financed by the ACLU won "protecting" the rights of Christians.
And, as someone who helped write a book on the religion of the founding fathers, I can assure you that we are far from a Christian nation in every aspect except for percentages. - delmar14, on 04/02/2008, -9/+41I usually never miss a chance to make fun of Christians, but this is just absurd. You can't deny someone their constitutional right to free expression just because you don't like what it is they're expressing.
- Dumbledorito, on 04/02/2008, -5/+36Mostly it happens when religious fundamentalists want to pass laws that promote their religious tennets at the expense of all others. For example, wanting an exclusively Christian prayer before every school function.
- carpespasm, on 04/02/2008, -0/+30the kid isn't an official or representative of the state, so what he does doesn't qualify under the separation of church and state but is more heavily influenced by freedom of religion and free speech.
- lydecker, on 04/02/2008, -10/+39Morality, as we know it, will change, as it always has and it always will. If you consider changing morality to be the decay of the morals you've had from when you were young, then you should understand that your morals were different than those before you as well, and even after this supposed decay, morality will continue to change. Because society defines how we judge morality; it always has, and it always will.
- f15ric, on 04/02/2008, -19/+47The fact that this student got a 0 for his art and those displaying Satan or demons got a better grade is disturbing. I don't want to preach hate nor do i want to see that teacher fired. I believe if the student wins his case and the teacher forced to see defeat by the school allowing Christian art is sweet justice in itself.
- eir574, on 04/02/2008, -1/+28I think you're taking things a little bit too far with that one.
- kinseyincanada, on 04/02/2008, -9/+35what the *****, who gives a ***** if some kid drew a picture of a cross, it doesnt offend anyone.
- eir574, on 04/02/2008, -3/+29In what ways would you like to limit free speech, other than basic concepts along the lines of you can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater?
- giveer, on 04/02/2008, -0/+25I'd have to agree with carpespasm..
Piggy backing on that, if you think passing religion as art isn't art, I'd be curious to hear your take on the Sistine Chapel. - active1x0, on 04/02/2008, -2/+26But in today's world, I want to be protected from any and all things that offend me!
...why yes, my head is indeed up my own ass. How did you know? - Dumbledorito, on 04/02/2008, -10/+33If by "tolerating Islam," you mean "not locked up just because they worship differently than Christians," then I guess you're right.
Just because you can't get it through your skulls that plastering Jesus all over federal buildings and demanding state recognition of your chosen mythological behavior isn't Constitutional doesn't mean you're being victimized, except perhaps by yourself. - lydecker, on 04/02/2008, -6/+28And every person and every church and every faith has a different morality than actual God's morality, which you call "real morality." It's always a blurred morality, and the blur changes. It always will change. We have no way of knowing how far on or off track we are from God's perspective. People can ask God all they want for a morality, but he doesn't give it to you.
Which is why "real morality" as you call it is non-existent on Earth. And it could be more accurately described as a supernatural morality. - outlaw686, on 04/02/2008, -0/+22Yes.... but if you actually READ the article, his main argument is that other students are breaking this rule but not being told the same thing.
"The lawsuit alleges other students were allowed to draw "demonic" images and asks a judge to declare a class policy prohibiting religion in art unconstitutional."
"The lawsuit also alleges school officials allow other religious items and artwork to be displayed on campus.
A Buddha and Hindu figurines are on display in a social studies classroom, the lawsuit claims, adding the teacher passionately teaches Hindu principles to students.
In addition, a replica of Michaelangelo's "The Creation of Man" is displayed at the school's entrance, a picture of a six-limbed Hindu deity is in the school's hallway and a drawing of a robed sorcerer hangs on a hallway bulletin board.
Drawings of Medusa, the Grim Reaper with a scythe and a being with a horned head and protruding tongue hang in the art room and demonic masks are displayed in the metals room, the lawsuit alleges. " - MoofTheStoof, on 04/02/2008, -3/+24There simply IS no higher principle than that.
- KCLorelei39, on 04/02/2008, -5/+26I don't think a signed school policy paper trumps one's Constitutional rights. That teacher was out of line, as well as woefully uninformed about her limits.
So, another school gets a another legal spanking, and it's on to the next court case for the ADF. Power-tripping school officials keep them in business.
The parents did exactly the right thing by taking legal action against this school. If you must keep your kids in public school, know your rights, and stand up whenever those rights are squashed by the powers that wannabe. - carpespasm, on 04/02/2008, -3/+24Then I thank the FSM that you are not the Evil Overload of a Christian USA.
- chownrus, on 04/02/2008, -0/+20If there was ever a time to learn the difference between your and you're, it's when referring to a man's nuts.
- ozymandias2012, on 04/02/2008, -13/+33Thanks, someone needed to say that.
- expertninja, on 04/02/2008, -0/+20Christian sect? Digg is no such thing. However, if there ever was a pervasive theme throughout digg, it would be that of freedom of expression. Separation of church and state means that the government should neither adopt nor preach a religion, however, it does not mean that an individual person can't express their religious beliefs in a way that isn't hate speech (speech meant to incite violence).
- lydecker, on 04/02/2008, -4/+23And there are many people on the planet who know the Holy Spirit and yet, no surprise, still have distinct moralities. Because it is subjective. Because, how basic foundations of morality apply in situations are a matter of debate, even when fundamental principles remain.
Even when we look at a court of law, we present different views of the fundamental principles and can interpret them in different ways. - bajesus, on 04/02/2008, -7/+26I can't believe how ridiculous this message board is. Yours is the first comment that didn't seem like the ramblings of a maniac. This story doesn't have anything to do with religion, its just a teacher being overly careful about his job. The school was definitely wrong, but it isn't an attack on Christianity by anybody.
- cquinnd, on 04/02/2008, -2/+21I refer you to Leviticus, if you believe morals are constant.
- f4nt0m4s, on 04/02/2008, -1/+19This entire situation was blown way out of proportion. The kid wasn't imposing his beliefs on anyone, he was just making art. However, the US School system is broke...you don't have any rights. I remember being a high school student, you do what they say or I guess you take it to court like this kid is doing. I hope this kid wins in court, but I doubt it will help in resolving a broke system.
There is no such thing as freedom of speech in high school, it's too powerful to give to a bunch of 15, 16, 17 and 18 year olds. That's what college is for in america.... - minapolos, on 04/02/2008, -5/+23OK, I am Christian but you geniuses are whats ruining it for the rest of us. No this is not a Christian nation. Don't ever call it that and it was never intended to be. There is a reason why Jesus himself advocated the separation of church and state. It's to protect the church from stupid things the government tends to do. My disagreement with this article isn't that Christianity is getting picked on, It's that someone's freedom of speech is being infringed on. The state should not hide behind religion nor use it in anyway but that separation shouldn't mean that individuals are denied the rights to practice and express their beliefs whether it's Christian, Hindu or anything else.
- lydecker, on 04/02/2008, -4/+22If you believe in God's morality as the only constant, you have to believe that you don't know that constant, and you never can unless you are God. That serves no earthly purpose. People who follow another person AND those who follow the Bible are looking for a subjective morality because morality is always socially subjective. It does us absolutely no good to say "God's morality doesn't change" because we aren't God, and we don't understand God. We do understand society, and whenever anyone tries to listen to what God wants, he is doing it subjectively.
Everyone who claims a religion skews their own beliefs. Every church has it's own skew of beliefs. It is inescapable, and if anyone believes that anyone or anything on this earth is an authority on an absolute morality, they are wrong.
Every human acts upon his own morality, derived mentally and socially. - Zarokima, on 04/02/2008, -0/+17It's not. I'm atheist and highly opposed to religion in general, but I'm outraged at this because it's an infringement of this young man's basic human rights guaranteed by our Constitution.
- TheWedge, on 04/02/2008, -1/+18So you're comparing a school policy about not offending other students with religious art (albeit one I disagree with, personally) with the slaughtering of six million Jews? (Let's not beat around the bush here)
- nukethewhales, on 04/02/2008, -2/+18You can say that all you want but you can never claim that the ACLU attacks Christianity. The ACLU does not use religion as a litmus test which is more than you can say for the Alliance Defense Fund.
- RobotCitizen, on 04/02/2008, -1/+17America was founded on the right to disagree. John Adams was just on HBO saying as much.
But seriously, it's the truth. - satanatnmtedu, on 04/02/2008, -4/+19You didn't go to my high school. If I had denounced Christianity, I would have been ostracized. If the art teacher censored this kid, then it would be wrong. But, this doesn't mean that religions do not exist in high school around the country.
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