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Anger in Beijing: Rethink Policy Over Former North Korean Ally

timesonline.co.uk — CHINA responded with rare fury to neighbouring North Korea ’s nuclear test, resorting to language generally reserved for imperialist opponents rather than communist friends. Indeed, North Korea’s test has delivered China to a diplomatic crossroads: it can choose to act tough with a troublesome neighbour or to stick with the cajoling and persuasion.

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  • RadiantBeing, on 10/12/2007, -0/+19China has the most to lose from the re-balancing of the region's security situation. What they want now is 10-20 years of quiet while they ramp up their economy. North Korea's test could set off a chain reaction leading Japan and other countries in the region to go nuclear or at the very least, to arm themselves more strongly. Ultimately, China itself would have to spend more money on its military in response. Strong neighbors would diminish China's influence in the region, while a more militaristic China would provoke fear and caution with its international trading partners. Even a re-unified Korea would be bad for China as it would mean an American-friendly neighbor right on its border with an advanced economy from the former South coupled with lots of cheap labor from the former North. A collapsed North Korea would just cause a refugee crisis that China would have to pay for (South Korea has a nice anti-illegal-immigration barrier known as the DMZ.) China comes out the loser whatever happens...except if status quo is maintained, which is why I was also surprised that North Korea defied China's wishes.
    • Monolith2, on 10/12/2007, -8/+9Uhh...if China wanted to, they could steamroll Korea. There's nothing stopping them except that NK is valuable to them as a bargaining chip against the US. NK is a Chinese puppet that allows them to constantly harrass US foreign policy without actually implicating themselves. Besides, what better way to dissuade a US defense of Taiwan then by creating a crisis somewhere else in asia at the same time? Im not saying that what they're doing at this moment, only that this is why NK is still an "independent" state.
    • Ghost_MH, on 10/12/2007, -6/+6@ Monolith2
      If they wanted to being the key word here. Why would China actually do that though??? China isn't afraid of NK's military power. They are afraid of what NK can do to the region. I don't see China having any problem just laying waste to the nation, but then they're left with a husk of a country they have to take care of. Not exactly the right way to go when you're a growing super-power that wishes nothing more than to see things remain as they are to give you time to build yourself up.
    • Monolith2, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7@ Ghost_MH

      You miss my point. I say that if China were legitimately concerned about a nuclear NK they could end the regime right now. Instead, they just continue to play good-cop/bad-cop with them.

      Anyway, China already takes care of that "husk of a nation." Who do you think feeds all those Koreans? It ain't Kim Jong.
    • jakebarnes, on 10/12/2007, -7/+2@monolith

      I bumped you for your comment. But I must make a special point here to dress you down for your use of the word "ain't" ... I understand it was rhetorical flare, but the word just sounds stupid.
    • monkeyrun, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2"I say that if China were legitimately concerned about a nuclear NK they could end the regime right now."

      what ?

      Like how Bush "liberated" Iraq ?
    • mirunit, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2""I say that if China were legitimately concerned about a nuclear NK they could end the regime right now."

      what ?

      Like how Bush "liberated" Iraq ?"

      No, as in China owns NK, NK has nothing by themselves and relys on China for almost everything from tanks to bread. Without these things the regime would fall pretty fast, so in essence NK is just a chineese proxy.
  • LeftistPersona, on 10/12/2007, -14/+3Last I checked, China is still allies with North Korea.

    Sensationalist titles are lame.
    • VolatileWhimsy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1So true, unfortunately people tend to be cattle and don't read the article.. :/
  • manicdvln, on 10/12/2007, -5/+10If anyone still believes China to be a communist state also believes in Santa Claus, ghosts and jesus.

    It's a capitalist totalitarian regime.
    • lustre, on 10/12/2007, -7/+6Hey! Don't be dragging Santa into this as he's the only one who can reliably monitor N. Korea's activities from the air without getting shot down.
    • Daedalus17, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Umm actually no it's not capitalist. It is a mixed economy just like the US except it has a much higher degree of state ownership of business then the US which has a larger percentage of privately owned business. If anything you could say that China is in a transition from communism to fascism.
    • moechi82, on 10/12/2007, -9/+3China is NOT a capitalist nation--far from it. Any nation that censors the 5th amendment is NOT capitalist. Please dont confuse China's part in globalization as China ushering itself into capitalism.
    • scott1, on 10/12/2007, -5/+2"It's a capitalist totalitarian regime."
      I think you mean the U.S.
      50% of china's bussiness are owned by the state(If I'm correct) I don't think it could be consider a capitalist totalitarian regime.China is part Socilalist and allows some free enterprise but under strict rules.
    • VolatileWhimsy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The only part of globlization that China has is Hong Kong, they didn't have crap till than.

      And the only free enterprise you will see is in Hong Kong btw...
  • gecko1969, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3With China move toward market based economic models and the growth it has created moves it away from the "communist" ideal. China has been a strong supporter of NK mainly for security reasons and having the communist ideal to support. Now that communisim is less of an issue that tie is wekened. However PRC can not turn it's back on NK over night as they are still "Brother Workers". The actions of NK have given PRC this chance to set the New Tone of relations, but I am suprised it happened this soon. I expected more time to pass but an opertunity it is.

    Do not be suprised if PRC helps support a Coup de'eta (covertly most likely) in NK to bring new leadership that will bring the nation out of the dark age it has fallen in to. The core of NK leadership is blood thirsty, but there are others who long to modernize and help the people. However they can not speak or they will be killed. I hope for the sake of the people suffering in NK that they are able to find more benevolent rulers.
    • Deputy_Doodah, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5A Chinese orchestrated coup?
      I hadn't thought of that angle. That certainly would be an elegant way out of this mess. I can't imagine a Chinese puppet state being any worse than NK.
  • PhantomRogue, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Isnt this kind of smart though. North Korea and China are allies, North Korea is (as stated and pretty much accepted) a puppet of China. I condem your actions from one side, but I support it on others. Its nothing new, just Chinas way of sounding 'diplomatic' to the rest of the world.
    • L0t3k, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Actually, I see this as more of a case of China finally being a respected player in the world economy, and NK is f'ing things up for them. What's worse, when China tells them to chill out, they throw it in their face and detonate a nuke.

      I just hope China shows some of that infinite patience they're known for.


    • VolatileWhimsy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1What makes you think NK would actually go against anything China says? China is not like the U.S.A., it would actually go in and kick ass.. :( :(
      Its all propagonda for China to save face..
  • CanceledCzech, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Hey, as long as their nukes aren't pointed at us, then it's not as bad as it could be.
  • bishop, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3"Uhh...if China wanted to, they could steamroll Korea."

    There is no doubt that China is militarily superior to North Korea and your assessment of the Chinese using North Korea as a pawn is correct. However, China misjudged its influence over North Korea. North Korea didn't follow China's strong recommendation against testing a bomb.

    China is now in a very tough position...

    It doesn't want the North Korean dictatorship to be overthrown because it would lead to a unified Korea and a capitalist country that would compete with them on the international market.

    It also doesn't want to have Japan, Taiwan and various other asian countries start an arms race. As radiantbeing mentioned it would cripple them economically.

    It was a gross miscalculation on China's part hence their latest stand on the situation: supporting sanctions against the actions of North Korea.
    • vertinox, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Actually, South Korea doesn't want unification either:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_unification#South_Korea

      " * In absolute terms, South Korea's economy is nowhere as strong as West Germany's was.
      * In relative terms, North Korea's economy is far worse than that of East Germany's. The income per capita ratio (PPP) was about 3:1 in Germany (about US$25,000 for West, about US$8,500 for East) [3]. The ratio is about 18:1 in Korea (over US$17,700 for South, US$1,000 for North, CIA Factbook 2005), although GDP estimates vary widely (see List of countries by GDP (PPP) per capita). This income gap is rapidly increasing as the North Korean economy stagnates and the South Korean economy is characterized by moderate to high economic growth.
      * Thirdly, while at the moment of the German reunification the East German population (around 17,000,000) was about a third of the West German (more than 60,000,000), the North Korean population (around 22,700,000) is currently around a half of the South Korean (around. 48,600,000).
      * Fourthly, the North Korean population is far more culturally distinct and isolated than what the East German population was in the late 1980s. Unlike in East Germany North Koreans generally cannot receive foreign broadcasting, read foreign publications or travel overseas. The Berlin Wall lasted for 27 years, while Korea has been divided for over half a century. Their totalitarian society has not engendered its citizens to develop initiative or a broader awareness of the world, let alone the skill sets needed to live and work in a modern economy, as has been witnessed by the experiences of North Korean defectors now living in the south[4].
      * Fifthly, it must be noted that the German economy still suffers (more than 15 years later) from rapid reunification. In addition, some analysts warn that rapid reunification might bring the South Korean economy to the point of collapse. It could also bring a flood of refugees into South Korea, causing a social and economic crisis."
    • twinklyJesus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@ bishop:

      "It also doesn't want to have Japan, Taiwan and various other asian countries start an arms race. As radiantbeing mentioned it would cripple them economically."

      That would be N. Korea actually starting the arms race, not any country responding out of fear.


    • L0t3k, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2An arms race is bad for them, regardless of who starts it.
    • bishop, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3twinklyJesus:
      That's what I meant...

      Vertinox:
      Those are very interesting facts but for a while the South Koreans have been adopting the "Sunshine" policy. The goal of this policy is for North Korea to change.

      Reunification may not be smooth but in the long run it will be much better for the country to be reunited...
  • moechi82, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0US not being their target does not mean we are safe from nuclear proliferation. What occurs in the world has direct affect on us--it's a ripple effect. Here's a great example: Iraq.
  • bchang, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2China would never want to bring North Korea down, this would cause a massive migration from the NK area. China feels they have enough domestic issues, thats why they wont use there power to take North Korea down by cutting off energy and supplies.
  • VolatileWhimsy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Give me a break..
    "Beijing’s response was unusually swift. “The Democratic People’s Republic of Korea has ignored the widespread opposition of the international community and brazenly carried out a nuclear test,” it said. "
    Basically China didn't say anything at all. It did not say it went against China's wishes or interest. Just against "international community". I am definitely not the most clever but China talks like this all the time to puff their gov up and even I can see it.. :/
  • nalf38, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0China, a communist country with the bomb, criticizes NK, another communist country with the bomb.

    Uh, "Pot to Kettle, come in Kettle..." "Kettle here, read you loud and clear, Pot."

    I know that China is moving away from communism and toward a more market-based economy, so maybe they're a little worried that if they don't play bad cop with North Korea, they're going to get in hot water with the WTO or something.
    • mirunit, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1China, Russia, France, UK, and United States are all, allowed by international law to have nuclear weapons. None of these powers are threatening each other with them of trying to extort things using a nuclear attack as a penalty for non-compliance with their extortion. I do not think it is good that China is massing nuclear weapons and ICBM's/MIRVs where as the US has no more MIRVs and is destroying their nuclear weapons, but atleast they aren't threatening each other.
  • moechi82, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@ bchang:

    It's true what you've said. China does not need enemies admist their burgeoning economy. Also, I still believe that China-N.Korea relations aren't as 'compromised' as the headline claims to be. The nations are dependent on one another.
  • tungsai, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1是不好！
  • lebaige, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0China values North Korea as it is right now as it provides a buffer state from U.S. military forces. If North Korea collapses or initiates a war with South Korea and loses, the United States and South Korean forces will inevitably occupy the North in an effort to stabilize it. That is NOT in China's best interests, having U.S. forces sitting on the Chinese Korean border.

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