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- ryanjulian, on 10/11/2007, -2/+30Good article.
It seems to miss the truth, however, that the development strategies supported by Gates, Sachs, Bono, Buffet, and the World Bank are exactly the ones it describes. These days "aid" is a misnomer, because modern aid projects are not the "lets hand them a bag of cash" sort but the "lets help them help themselves" sort. That's why Muhammed Yunus won the Nobel Peace Prize last year. He didn't hand impoverished women in Bangladesh a big bag of cash, rather he created an environment and an institution that allowed them to pull themselves up from poverty through entrepreneurship and investing in the future.
Not dugg for the sensationalist title. But not dugg down either. - edstate, on 10/11/2007, -1/+23Micro. Finance.
- hexx54, on 10/11/2007, -5/+21It's time to let Africa imagine its own future.
- Tabou, on 10/11/2007, -2/+17Actually, Africa has an average population density of 28 (per sq km). For the sake of comparison, India is at 336, China at 137, and the US at 31.
- timothybryce, on 10/11/2007, -0/+14The most supposedly "responsible" leader in Africa can't even be brought to condemn Robert Mugabe's rape and pillage of his country's economy.
- thatwasknutz, on 10/11/2007, -0/+14I don't really agree with that argument...You can't praise someone who's intentions were good but whose results are negative just because he tried.
- nodong, on 10/11/2007, -12/+25You should all study at least rudimentary economics before you open you stupid cakeholes. Overpopulation is a red herring. The world can support all the human beings who will ever be born once the developing world is developed. The overpopulation argument is inherently racist. It is true, however, that there will be many more non-europeans than europeans when the population stabilizes. And that will be ok!
- c0yote, on 10/11/2007, -4/+13Overpopulation is racist? Are you serious? I bet you think a lot of other things are racist too. Thats a terrible cop-out for an argument. I was born and raised in India and came to the US for university. I openly discuss the problems of overpopulation in my home country. Am I racist against myself and my family?
- Blackflower, on 10/11/2007, -0/+9"Clearly the land can't support the population"
I'm sorry, but that's a baseless and ill-informed stereotype; there are multiple African nations that are net food EXPORTERS, while people in nearby countries - and sometimes the export nations themselves - go hungry. And with the progress of science and human ingenuity, there is no reason why any African should starve, barring the existence of our current global economic system which distributes resources like food according to wealth instead of according to need. Ironically, as this article suggests, it may be that very economic system that is Africans' best chance... Time will tell, but please don't falsely suggest that Africa is too overpopulated - or too devoid of resources - to sustain itself; it's simply untrue. - xike, on 10/11/2007, -3/+12In other news, a single German thinks the holocaust should happen again. Clearly, this means that all Germans think the holocaust should happen again.
- tehpwnrate, on 10/11/2007, -4/+12Maybe you should understand what we mean before you open "you" cakehole. Obviously with the technology it's possible to support those people. But with warlords seizing food, and a lack of infrastructure, the land cannot.
- Salgat, on 10/11/2007, -7/+15As crude as your statement is, its true. It's disgusting to see HIV ridden poverty struck folk having more and more children.
- ploke, on 10/11/2007, -1/+8One should also keep in mind that thanks to many problems (civil wars, AIDS, etc.) Africa now is underpopulated in most areas. Overpopulation is clearly not a problem in Africa.
- mighty_mouth, on 10/11/2007, -1/+8Right. But then most of the blame lies with the warlords and dictators, not with the land (which is what the GP was blaming the problems on).
- Sean23, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6There IS a reply feature now, so you don't have to use the @ method. Just so you know.
- goodoldharris, on 10/13/2007, -5/+10liquidfirex and tehpwnrate:
Since you're making a list of those who shouldn't reproduce, make sure you add your own ***** names. I mean, you two are not just sub-human ignorant, but you're ***** rude.
Now digg me down and report me as offensive. - vandy, on 10/11/2007, -1/+6"I can't Peter, it's for the starving children."
- tehpwnrate, on 10/11/2007, -2/+7And it's true that sending food and medical supplies so that they can continue to have kids and spread disease only worsens the problem in the long run--and it doesn't help that many of their radical clerics prevent the use of condoms. I know it sounds callous, but that's the horrific situation.
- zander106, on 10/11/2007, -1/+6Read The White Man's Burden by William Easterly. It's a great expansion on this article's general point -- that the way we provide aid has to be fundamentally restructured.
The Western world likes to pat itself on the back for declarations to increase aid. But in the end it's not how much you throw at a problem; it's the results that come out on the other end. And our current aid system simply does not generate results. - 5la5hd0tter, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4I recommend the writer of the above post to read the said article properly first.
Seriously - did you even read TFA?! The article does not paint Africa in a negative way - it criticizes those that do. This article does not suggest little boys toting AK-47s - it says "that's what everyone seems to think of Africa but that's not true!"
I really can't believe how blinded you are with your arrogance that you wouldn't even try to comprehend the essence of the article before bleating out your own trumpet that you have been in Africa too. If you practiced a little more humility you would found to your pleasant surprise upon reading the article that your views are shared and publicly propounded as well by a like-minded individual. - facelogic, on 10/11/2007, -1/+5My mom has dreams too, dammit.
- oneblackcitizen, on 10/11/2007, -1/+5I hope people really aren't really buying the overpopulation argument. Africa could actually support a whole lot more people. Africa has an abundance of natural resources just waiting to be tapped.
What's missing is education and infrastructure. If they had that, everything else would follow. On my trip to Ghana, it was sad to see so many kids who would do just about anything to get an education, but didn't have the money to go to high school. Contrast that to the US where people are dropping out of high school at an alarming rate. - Flashman, on 10/11/2007, -1/+5You're a moron from the neck up.
- smallestmills, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4Bono and friends' RED program (GAP, Motorola, Apple, etc.) has so far spent $100 million on marketing...and has only gained $20 million in donations. Why not just cut the ***** middle man and donate the 100 mil? It's supposed to continue for five years...even if it stays hyped (anyone know what happened to all that RED *****?) and makes the same amount each year...why not just cut a check? All so we the people can buy a stupid red phone or tee shirt and feel good about "doing something".
- grakker, on 10/11/2007, -1/+5Not exactly. The guy, original poster, is quoting a president to support his support of not listening to politicians. Huh?
- Mongo61, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3300 thread count sheets? *****, those are $30 at Century 21 in NYC.
What do Conservatives sleep on, anyway. - johndi, on 10/11/2007, -2/+5It's not so much the idea that overpopulation is a problem that is racist. The whole you shouldn't reproduce package that comes along with it, however is. The article points out the contrast between the West's patronizing we must give aid to the helpless, and China's willingness to help them build their infrastructure.
Guess who will take credit when China's plan creates opportunity in Africa. It will be the same ones who do nothing but talk now. - rm999, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3The Sahara shouldn't count as land that can support people...
- r00tdem0n, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2This is true, Africa has some of the most corrupt politicians in the world, most african aid money goes straight into their pockets
- Chandon, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2The warlords and the infrastructure are the problem there, not overpopulation.
- Blackflower, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Tell that to the Arabs, Berbers and Sahrawi who have lived there for thousands of years.
I'll also add that less than a third of the ARABLE land in all of Africa is used for agriculture. Again, this is not a matter of overpopulation or lack of resources, it's a matter of the economic arrangements currently in place. - goodoldharris, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2tepwnrate:
Here are your words: "And sending food and medical supplies so that they can continue to have kids and spread disease only worsens the problem in the long run". Also, since you begin your sentence with "and", you clearly imply that you agree with and are tacking something on to liquidfirex's comment. So I haven't put words in your mouth. And yes, I read the article and it doesn't make your opinion any less ignorant. Your second comment is no better. Try reading some books that go into the issues a little deeper than Fox news. - Chandon, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Doing something stupid and destructive is clearly worse than doing nothing at all. There are thing that could be done to help the situation in specific African countries, but dumping aid money on their corrupt governments isn't one of those things - and actually prevents most of the useful plans from working at all.
- THX1979, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2I heard elite neo-cons sleep on sheets woven from the hair of newborn children.
- duniyadnd, on 10/11/2007, -3/+5I'm sure they had ample number of years without Bono trying to help a cause he feels worth helping.
- dillibob, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3if the africans dont want the money bono could always donate it to me. gotta pay for college somehow
- Homunculiheaded, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2real solutions include spamming our websites?
- gmillerd, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Bono's main crusade is debt relief, with the beauty of compounded interest ... loan a man a dollar, enslave him for life should be your slogan.
- cmcagle, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3These African economists and businessmen remind me of the French Physiocrats who, in the 18th century, told their government that the best way to help the economy is to "laissez faire," or "let it be." The governments of the world, and America's in particular, should heed this message not only in foreign aid, but also in domestic economic policy. What the Africans at the TED conference are saying is something we used to understand in America: if a country is to flourish, it's individuals--not it's government--must be empowered.
Foreign aid programs designed to help Africa generally end up funding unproductive bureaucracy at best, and dictatorship (i.e. Mugabe) at worst. This isn't limited to Africa, and certainly Africa has it's own problems which have nothing to do with well-intended foreign aid propping up bad government. However, when some of the best and brightest minds on a continent come together and give rational arguments based upon the human necessity of self-determination for an end to hand-outs and bail-outs, we should take note and listen to what they have to say.
In domestic policy, those of us who are critical of the welfare state often focus on the monetary cost of social programs, and while this is certainly an important and legitimate criticism, it may miss a bigger issue. Namely, the effects of social programs on their intended beneficiaries. This article gives us a unique perspective: since the social programs in Africa are not being funded by African tax dollars on productive African business, the programs are not directly costing the African economy in a budgetary sense. However, here we have people from Africa--people who know their continent's problems because they live them every day--saying that our well-intentioned social programs are costing Africa, not because they are a drain on their coffers, but because they create a culture of dependence and stifle innovation. - RandomGuySteve, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Not only that, but there is a general line of thinking in poorer countries that immediate wealth is always better than long term stability and growth. The dictators and Presidents forcefully take all of the money, and the common folk are left with nothing to build their countries with. The dictators don't care, because they think (or know) that some other revolutionary will come and kill them soon, so getting the good life while you can is all that matters.
It's why a safe-sex campaign will never work as a widespread tactic against africans and aids. People just don't expect to live that long to worry about it. - unitedstatians, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2HAHA! That comment was so....how shall I say?.....SLAVISH.
- tehpwnrate, on 10/11/2007, -4/+5Right, but with warlords and dictators and without the technology and (as the article says) investment, the land can only currently support less than that much comfortably.
- buglord, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1African financial aid is just a trade war wrapped in charity.
With limitless supplies of goods and money, the various african economies are robbed of all impetus. Surplus milk is dried into powder and shipped by the tons - you will have a hard time finding local milk, because powdered milk is just too cheap. Same goes for frozen chicken, sweets, and pretty much everything.
It's a dirty trade war with the goal of obliterating the african economy before it can become relevant. - liquidfirex, on 10/13/2007, -0/+1Try understanding basic human survival
Better yet go into the dessert, and have some kids and when they die from lack of nurishment? Well ***** blame someone else for not helping you out. - THX1979, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1I've never been to India, but I can tell you that your country's problem is incompentently implemented developmental strategies and not overpopulation.
- BlackAle, on 10/11/2007, -5/+6Unbelievable you were you dugg down, shows the utter ignorance on digg.
- rm999, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1There's a big difference in the first and third world. In the first world, the most valuable thing you have is your possessions and money. A kid takes up a large % of that. In much of the third world, a child is the most valuable thing a person will have. The children can work, have earning potential, and don't cost as much to bring up (in proportion). In addition, in some areas, the infant mortality rate is quite high - many kids can hedge against this.
The problem is high birth rates are actually harming these countries. Each new child makes it harder for a poor society to function, because those children will either have to be educated for 15-20 years or will become a burden on more people later on. Kind of a vicious cycle. - qualish, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1I would hope he is using his new albums or DVDs to promote support for Africa, and not the other way around. : (
- WilliamDavis, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1"and of course liberals do not want to get their hands dirty with regime change."
That's because "regime change" really only happens from within. BTW, I wouldn't call myself a liberal. - Blackflower, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Considering that birth rates have been consistently dropping across Africa for decades, I'd really like to know how many African families have "5 or 10" children, or if you just tossed out those numbers as a kind of ridiculous strawman argument with no basis in reality (as I suspect). I'd suggest watching Hans Rosling's famous speech on African poverty from the 2006 TED talks, which succinctly and effectively demolishes the myths you evidently believe: http://www.ted.com/talks/view/id/92 .
The argument being made by the person to whom I initially replied was that impoverished people (the majority in Africa) and people living with AIDS (the vast majority of whom are in Africa) should either not have children or have as few children as possible. It's a blatantly elitist position to take, as if family and children are privileges for the wealthy to enjoy, not for all people. -
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