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209 Comments
- NorrisOBE, on 03/22/2009, -4/+95As a Muslim, i've been a part of this growing revolution. We engage through blogs, we try our best to outdo the extremists and we'll continue doing it until the day Chuck Norris and Steven Seagal joins forces with Mahdi and Jesus to stop the dajjal/anti-Christ/Dane Cook
- We11esian, on 03/21/2009, -2/+85Modern or not, the followers determine how they follow. I think a non-violent youth movement in Iran is a step in a positive direction. They're not going to be another Lil Buddy for the U.S. They'll have their own ways, and paths. So long as that way means nobody dies, I'm all for it
- inactive, on 03/22/2009, -7/+50Don't ask me if it's true; you're the one who made the inflammatory comment with no words backing it up. Why don't you explain your opinion first.
- 1longtime, on 03/22/2009, -1/+35Dane Cook has a weakness... it's a small ventilator shaft about two meters wide.
Many real actors have died to bring us this information. - We11esian, on 03/22/2009, -3/+35Thank you for that. I'm not Muslim, but I bet a lot of the people commenting here only know what Fox News tells them about Islam.
- rpapi100, on 03/22/2009, -2/+34Modernity in Islam will come from Muslims.
Opening the Qu'ran, the Firq and th Quanun to interpretation as it was during the great Arabo-muslim expansion will, in my opinion as a Westerner, help usher in a new era of prosperity and technical and cultural significance in the Muslim world.
There was a time were Islam was the religion of science and cultural tolerance, were scholars from across the globe would gather in the burgeoning Islamic cities and universities to further their knowledge and live under a tolerant rule. This state of peace and prosperity was brought about, in part, by the constant renewal of the interpretation and reading of the sacred books of Islam that allowed Muslims to adapt the teaching of their prophet to the ever changing reality. Some times abuses by greedy leaders this process was done by a ring of various Islamic scholars coming from universities across the land. From the Moors in Spain, passing by the Magreb and on into middle east, Muslims of different background would debate and adapt Sha'ria to the various situation that arose from increasing technical and cultural evolution.
This process eventually died out and was banned as the authoritarian regimes and monarchies plaguing the region could not adapt or dictate the interpretation of Islam. The chose to ban the interpretation of Islam on the basis that if the Qu'ran could not be re-written, as it was the word of God himself, then the life of the prophet and his teachings could not be re-visited as well.
From there, traditions that were current at the time in all of the known world (the veil for example) were maintained in Islam and eventually (or ironically) the intellectual stimulus brought forth from the Arab world into the west (through Italian scholars re-discovering the Greek classics studied by the Arabs) ushered in Europe's Renaissance. As the Arab cities declined, their leaders sought to maintain their power by more religious and cultural orthodoxy.
Afterwards, the rest is well known. The West rose to prominence and most of the original Arab states declined into irrelevance.
Today Muslims are once again armed with a significant intellectual body, not only is it time for an Islamic renewal, it is necessary, dogmatism and tribalism are pushing Islam into self destruction. As my high school biology teacher would say: ''adapt or die''.
It's now or never.
- A Atheist, non-Arabic Individual - mingohills, on 03/22/2009, -9/+39Of course! 'Cause the nothing says modernity like speaking in tongues and using the bible as birth control.
- inactive, on 03/22/2009, -4/+27Pro-Islamic? On digg? WTF are you smoking?
- NorrisOBE, on 03/22/2009, -7/+27Oh Hi There Neo-Con!
- We11esian, on 03/22/2009, -2/+18Why is it your assumption that anyone who says Islam is not evil must also be evil? Does every Christian kill abortion doctors? Does every Buddhist light himself on fire?
You presume that there is only black and white. With Islam or WIth Israel and/or America. This kind of thinking - the implication that all Muslims are backwards, violent people and all who think otherwise want to kill Americans - it solves nothing. It cures nothing. No one benefits. No one understands any better, and the blood continues to flow over ignorant misunderstandings. - Nighttime, on 03/22/2009, -4/+18"A quiet revolution" might well be brewing, but it is way past time for them to speak up. Just about 5 mins ago I ran across this:
Jordanian beats daughter to death for wearing makeup in 'honour' killing
http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/art ...
Time to stop being so damn quiet....don't you think? How many lives could be spared if they did start to speak? - Paranor01, on 03/22/2009, -2/+16Could be argued for Christianity as well. I mean the Pope has said "condoms won't stop the spread of AIDS, the Bible's teachings will". Sorry, but it's as much nonsense.
- gcnaddict, on 03/22/2009, -2/+15"There is no such thing as 'islamic extremist', that is redundant."
You're saying every Muslim is an extremist?
That's a hell of a stereotype you just drew. I'm assuming you're a closet bigot. - SuperMoses, on 03/22/2009, -3/+16That's not surprising. There are many educated Israelis who will make derogatory comments about Muslims. Just as there are many educated Americans who will make derogatory comments about Muslims.
You seem to be implying that racist views held by educated people only exists in the Muslim world. - koldmilk, on 03/22/2009, -0/+13I don't think anyone could have said it better.
- inactive, on 03/22/2009, -1/+13Freedom doesn't come in flavors. Making excuses based on moral relativity will only lead to more suffering.
- disco5896, on 03/22/2009, -0/+12"a new generation.....IS...."
- Paranor01, on 03/22/2009, -1/+13Just like a troll to bring President Obama into a thread that has nothing to do with him.
- emkaysmith, on 03/22/2009, -1/+12You sound like a "Christian extremist," actually. Generalizations like yours are the definition of bigotry and xenophobia.
- Karmashock, on 03/22/2009, -0/+10We11seian,
Individual freedom is universal. Everyone has a right to their own personal beliefs, their own personal speech, and their own personal dreams.
No government, religion, or culture has the right to take that away from anyone.
If you say someone doesn't have that right, what you're all saying is they're less then human. And if you want to play that game then the next logical step will be to treat them as less then human.
So which is it? Do they have basic human rights or are they subhuman? Because if they've human rights then we should support insurrection against their tyrants. And if they're subhuman then we don't need to respect their society at all.
QED. - emkaysmith, on 03/22/2009, -6/+16*No* revealed religion is suited to a world based more and more on science, technology, and "the provable." But we're not going to rid the world of organized religion for at least a few centuries yet, so we might as well support any movement that makes any religion or denomination less offensive to everyone else.
I really don't care what any group believes -- not even lunatics like the JWs -- as long as they're peaceful about it and don't bug everyone else with it.
Of course, people like Ann Coulter think it's our duty to convert the Muslims to Christianity by force. And I resent her use of "our" to include everyone in the United states. - AgeofMastery, on 03/22/2009, -1/+11One thing so many people here are forgetting is that successful change comes gradually. By doing things gradually you avoid creating culture shock and lessen the chance of people rejecting the changes.
If for example, the Saudi King decided tomorrow to throw the countries laws away and make it a Western styled country there would be a revolution because many people don't want and aren't ready for that kind of radical change. Instead he works gradually, appointing the country's first woman cabinet minister and taking small steps to lessen the power of the religious police.
I'm sure Christianity didn't go from "Burn the witch!" and "Kill the heretic" overnight either. Rather than having a hatefest we should be encouraging these people working to change things. - jakereilly, on 03/22/2009, -0/+9Uh, scientology has been connected to several murders and various other illegal acts throughout the past few decades.
In case you didn't know. - mohamedmansour, on 03/22/2009, -1/+10Okay, so what if a person of some said religion, blogs. The internet is for anyone. Live with it. This isn't a revolution, it has been there since the beginning. Believe it or not, they even have their own private torrent trackers, in their own languages. Even before thepiratesbay.
- gcnaddict, on 03/22/2009, -5/+14Most of which were not converted by any such means.
If we want to play by that game, Christianity has had the exact same flaw (inquisition, crusades, etc.), so the general point here is that all religions have their problems.
If one's to believe in God, I think the best way to do it would be to do it without religion to interfere. - Triptastic, on 03/22/2009, -2/+11Cheering in the streets, huh? I (and reality) disagree:
http://www.time.com/time/europe/photoessays/vigil/
Please stop spreading hate, fear and ignorance. As We11esian stated, "It cures nothing. No one benefits." - lamiaconfitor, on 03/22/2009, -3/+12Perhaps it is because I am a 'godless' liberal, or because I think there are many things of great value in Islam, Judaism, Christianity... (all af which I have studied...) but things like this* grant me strength, and these... if anything the idea that these may coexist may convince me that maybe a God actually exists. Maybe a God cant be the ***** all of the time, as most dogmatic tribes perceive him/her/it.
*(the point/meaning of the article itself...) - SpeedyThing, on 03/22/2009, -5/+13"Like say compared to the religion that worships a peaceful rabbi that did nothing but preach love all the way down to the lowest of society."
But don't forget that the rabbi of which you speak was also one and the same as his father (and indeed the holy spirit). And we all know what his father did...
Actually his father (who was also himself) is possibly one of the most vindictive, petty, and cruel ***** in the history of the world. And apparently he is one and the same as his son. So... Christianity is acutally based on a schizophrenic bastard who veers between being insanely evil and insanely good.
I think you are confusing it with your cherry-picked version. And that is an example of how it can be modernised. Just like Islam could be. - inactive, on 03/22/2009, -4/+12Islam once led the world in technological and intellectual development. During this period the Islamic empire was strong, vibrant and stood fast against attempted western intereference. When it lost its technological drive due to a relapse into feverant secularism it lost the ground it had gained and arguably never recovered.
As a westerner I welcome any reintegration of the Islamic world into the intellectual development of the wider world, and if the internet, blogs and twitter are the way forwards then this can only be a good thing. - inactive, on 03/22/2009, -0/+8Morgan Freeman could have SAID it better. But, specifically in terms of content, I agree.
- SpinningHead, on 03/22/2009, -3/+11We have states that hang people and hook people up to power plants to fry them don't we? You're confusing culture with religion. Both can evolve.
- beautifulady, on 03/22/2009, -1/+8Why do atheists feel it is their duty to inform us that they are atheists? I don't care about your atheism, please get away from me and allow me my freedom to practice my religion.
- inactive, on 03/22/2009, -11/+18There are always dissenters and it's nice that they can speak up a bit more than usual, but Islam is still in the thrall of a conservative movement. Iran is inscribing more and more sharia based laws. And political movements have been replaced with personal violence in the form of kidnapping and killing foreigners.
- inactive, on 03/22/2009, -0/+7honour killings are not unique to or limited to islam.
- kd1s, on 03/23/2009, -1/+8It isn't just Islam that relegates women to 2nd class status. Christianity has it's fun passages too, like 1 Timothy 2:11 which states "Let a woman learn in silence with full submission. I permit no woman to teach or have authority over a man; she is to keep silent."
This is the New Testament mind you. That is part about what bothers me about those who will harp on the fact that homosexuality is an abomination when at the same time you have not only other prohibitions that garner the status of abomination in the same book, but you have more misogynistic crap in the NT. - inactive, on 03/22/2009, -4/+10The problem is that "non-violent" can still be horribly oppressive. Large swaths of the Islamic world need to see freedom from their bondage to power-hungry leaders who keep the people bound and use the Koran as justification for their actions.
- jabbajabba, on 03/22/2009, -0/+6Nice comment.
I have a good friend who is musilm and quite devout in his practise - he always states Islam is currently in its dark ages. - iticu, on 03/22/2009, -0/+6You can't force freedom on people. You either want it or you don't.
- doctornkul, on 03/22/2009, -9/+15Actually, they would if their ancestors were converted at swordpoint 1000 years ago.
- We11esian, on 03/22/2009, -3/+9Yes, but you presume that they want a Western kind of freedom. Not everybody wants to live like us. But, that doesn't mean that they can't become more cooperative with the rest of the world
- tzvika613, on 03/22/2009, -1/+6^ ^ I have noticed that too. It is as if the fact that they are atheists shows how open-minded and fair they are. I have also noticed that atheism with some atheists is not so much no religious belief as it is belief in no religion.
- Uthman, on 03/22/2009, -1/+6It is really quite simple -- Muslims stopped following their own creed. During the 'Islamic Golden Era' those who were in power as well as the laymen actually stuck to the book. As Muslims deviated further and further from it, mixing in ignorance and cultural traditions in place of their religion, you got all the corruption introduced into the religion that you have spoken of: "a regressive, totalitarian, dictatorial regimes that bans books and restricts girls from going to schools".
None of those things you mentioned are sanctioned in Islam, in the Quran, in the written history of the Prophet (or ANY of the previous Abrahamic Prophets), etc. I do not understand why people attribute them to 'Islam' when it is clearly cultural and there are plenty of evidences that support it being prohibited by the religion. - DefenceMinister, on 03/22/2009, -2/+7Pointless when the fanatical movement funded by the Saudis is infiltrating the Sunni sect. That's the real issue.
- lilSears, on 03/22/2009, -0/+5No. As I'm living in Egypt now, Islam actually helps people with the modern world. This culture isn't really well suited to the hustle and bustle of metropolitan life. They're more laid back and no emphasis is put on time. But usually a person who follows Islam, that person is more likely to do a better job at helping you get what you need rather than a person who doesn't care about it. Remember: western modernization does not equal near eastern modernization. Let them modernize the best way they can. They're not going to rip off their hijabs and where mini skirts over night. Let them embrace it, it will work but let it work for them.
- inactive, on 03/22/2009, -6/+11But it is pervasive everywhere in Muslim society, the protocols of Zion are issued as official textbook studies to students in Syria, Saudi Arabia, and exists as an actual artifact in the Cairo museum, of course racism exists everywhere, but it is openly tolerated and encouraged by most mideast states.
- Nighttime, on 03/22/2009, -2/+7So I guess according to your logic, they should not even try to correct any problems right? This attitude has enabled these problems for decades. Yes the west has created problems, and made many problems worse.
But these countries had problems long before America became involved with them. People need to start taking responsibility for their own actions.
I guess you think countries like Saudi Arabia were democratic paradises before oil became valuable? - mohajaf, on 03/23/2009, -1/+5No religion is really suited for modernity.
- jgzman, on 03/22/2009, -4/+8rhl1, I'm gonna assume that you are not intentionally being stupid here, but are only hard-of-thinking, and I will explain the obvious.
To say that 'Islam is not suited to the modern world.' is a true enough statement. To imply that this cannot be changes is incorrect. As an example, the Christian religion is also not really suited for the modern world, especially if you choose to examine some of the more unusual aspects of it.
However, Christianity was able to grow and change to meet the requirements of today. There is no reason to suppose that Islam cannot do the same. - inactive, on 03/22/2009, -3/+7You mean Islam doesn't have instructions on the proper clubbing of baby seals for the purpose of collecting the tears of nearby children? But... Fox wouldn't lie...
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