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195 Comments
- EntropyMan, on 10/11/2007, -13/+136Here, rather than everyone constantly telling you what level of conspiracy you believe on any given day, I've made a handy scale to save time and energy. You can simply say where on this scale you fall.
THE ENTROPY SCALE
* E0. I believe the official 9/11 conspiracy theory without question or variation.
* E1. I believe the official 9/11 commission report was a simplification or partial white-wash, but is essentially correct.
* E2. I believe Bush & Co is still covering up for their sheer incompetence in not preventing the attacks.
* E3. I believe Bush & Co is still covering up for having ignored key intel and obstructed real government efforts that might have prevented the attacks, though that obstruction was systemic/institutional, not intentional.
* E4. I believe Bush & Co had sufficient foreknowledge and obstructed all efforts to stop the attacks, but they did not plan them.
* E5. I believe the "Company"(*) conspired to both plan and execute the attacks, using teams of hijackers & planes as reported.
* E6. I believe the "Company" actually executed the attacks themselves, rigging thermite in the WTC and firing a missile at the pentagon, where the planes provided an excuse.
* E7. I believe there were no planes at all, not even flight 93 (e.g., it was all faked, except the demolition of the WTC complex for Larry Silverstein and some superficial damage at the Pentagon for Bush & Rummy).
* E8. I believe al Qaeda does not even exist, except as part of the CIA, and that BushCo is fighting both sides of this "war," with the aim to enslave us in their New World Order.
* E9. I believe members of the "Company" are reptilian invaders who can plant thoughts in our heads.
* from E5 on, it’s somewhat silly to think of Bush as masterminding anything, so the "Company" is whatever it needs to be to get the job done.
http://www.brownianemotion.org/2007/05/29/the-conspiracy-scale/
Have fun! - bonyicecream, on 10/11/2007, -48/+149You may be a nutjob,
but I hate my job.
Our janitor's name is bob.
He likes to eat corn on the cob. - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -18/+113I don't think 9/11 was an inside job *but* our goverment has taken advantage of the situation to consolidate power and subvert the Bill of Rights and the Constitution and quite frankly, thats damming enough.
- bigturns, on 10/11/2007, -8/+73@marcushe,
"9/11 was an inside job."
9/11 being an inside job is of the realm of all things possible. Stories like these only add credence to the notion that such an act was perpetrated on our nation by actors within our government.
The fact that such is possible doesn't make @marcushe a nut job. I would much rather live in a world where the likes of @marcushe exist than one populated by the 'sit down and shut up' crowd. - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -13/+63The document was declassified in either 1997 or 1998, you can find it at The George Washington University website, under their National Security archives.
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/northwoods.pdf
---
What this document does prove is capability and intent, also giving an insight into the inner workings of military and government.
Below are some "Northwood" quotes which may be relevant to what happened on 9/11...
---
(11) Sink ship near harbor entrance. Conduct funerals for mock-victims (may be lieu of (10)).
b. United States would respond by executing offensive operations to secure water and power supplies, destroying artillery and mortar emplacements which threaten the base.
c. Commence large scale United States military operations.
3. A "Remember the Maine" incident could be arranged in several forms:
a. We could blow up a US ship in Guantanamo Bay and blame Cuba.
b. We could blow up a drone (unmanned) vessel anywhere in the Cuban waters. We could arrange to cause such incident in the vicinity of Havana or Santiago as a spectacular result of Cuban attack from the air or sea, or both. The presence of Cuban planes or ships merely investigating the intent of the vessel could be fairly compelling evidence that the ship was taken under attack. The nearness to Havana or Santiago would add credibility especially to those people that might have heard the blast or have seen the fire. The US could follow up with an air/sea rescue operation covered by US fighters to "evacuate" remaining members of the non-existent crew. Casualty lists in US newspapers would cause a helpful wave of national indignation.
and
TOP SECRET SPECIAL HANDLING NOFORN
UNCLASSIFIED
7. Hijacking attempts against civil air and surface craft should appear to continue as harassing measures condoned by the government of Cuba. Concurrently, genuine defections of Cuban civil and military air and surface craft should be encouraged.
8. It is possible to create an incident which will demonstrate convincingly that a Cuban aircraft has attacked and shot down a chartered civil airliner enroute from the United States to Jamaica, Guatemala, Panama or Venezuela. The destination would be chosen only to cause the flight plan route to cross Cuba. The passengers could be a group of college students off on a holiday or any grouping of persons with a common interest to support chartering a non-scheduled flight.
a. An aircraft at Eglin AFB would be painted and numbered as an exact duplicate for a civil registered aircraft belonging to a CIA proprietary organization in the Miami area. At a designated time the duplicate would be substituted for the actual civil aircraft and would be loaded with the selected passengers, all boarded under carefully prepared aliases. The actual registered aircraft would be converted to a drone.
b. Take off times of the drone aircraft and the actual aircraft will be scheduled to allow a rendezvous south of Florida. From the rendezvous point the passenger-carrying aircraft will descend to minimum altitude and go directly into an auxiliary field at Eglin AFB where arrangements will have been made to evacuate the passengers and return the aircraft to its original status. The drone aircraft meanwhile will continue to fly the filed flight plan. When over Cuba the drone will being transmitting on the international distress frequency a "MAY DAY" message stating he is under attack by Cuban MIG aircraft. The transmission will be interrupted by destruction of the aircraft which will be triggered by radio signal. This will allow ICAO radio
---
And this was back in 1962 !!!
Things are not always as they appear, or are made to appear, ask any illusionist.
All of these planes involved in 9/11 had very unusual flight paths, which could have facilitated a "switch"...
Best wishes - Yelnik, on 10/11/2007, -7/+47Top Secret pic? Notice how it says UNCLASSIFIED in big letters on the top, yeah, that means its not top secret. Also, this is old news.
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -8/+42Actually... we did use terrorists and did commit terrorist acts:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Posada_Carriles - COINTELPROAgent, on 10/11/2007, -11/+44"buried as innacurate" wow, that's a great comeback.
- jake8689, on 10/11/2007, -11/+40@EntropyMan
i guess iam E4 - HypocriteDigg, on 10/11/2007, -12/+38Maybe not an inside job. But they did look the other way so that we COULD be attacked. They knew it was coming. They knew who was doing it. But they wanted their 'Pearl Harbor' so they could move closer to a fascist state. Project for the New American Century (PNAC) are the real terrorists.
- Nudar, on 10/11/2007, -4/+28Does anyone know if any of the joint chiefs from that era are still alive? I know it's probably unlikely as the positions are given to old people. It appears that the chairmen from that time are dead.
- screamthenrun, on 10/11/2007, -0/+24I was expecting this article to link to the ABC site...
- willk281, on 10/11/2007, -5/+24this is some heavy *****, to say the least.
- EntropyMan, on 10/11/2007, -7/+23@bsiviglia, feel free to remove the "I believe" part. But I personally feel that anyone who claims to know anything with certainty (other than one of the conspirators, for example) about 9/11 is deceiving oneself.
At best, we can make educated guesses, some more educated than others. But all are beliefs until all the facts come out. - stallion4, on 10/11/2007, -5/+21GawtMilk wrote: "No one was to be killed or injured."
From Northwoods:
"We could develop a Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington."
Are you suggesting that no civilians would have been harmed during this "terror campaign"?
Are you suggesting that no US soldiers and/or civilians would have been harmed if the US would have gone to war over this plan? - EntropyMan, on 10/11/2007, -4/+17It's a dupe. Didn't everyone get to comment to their heart's content on the last version of this story, which was pulled from 2001?
- keithwired, on 10/11/2007, -4/+17@@squaredup
I don't give a ***** that they were going to use mock victims, the fact that they even planned to deceive the american people on such a grand scale just to have an excuse to attack Cuba is ***** in itself, I don't care what you call it, contingency, or ***** conspiracy its the same thing. - dpds, on 10/11/2007, -5/+17Contingency planning is one thing. For example, drawing up plans on how to invade Canada should the need arise. As opposed to what this is, finding ways to fool the public into thinking there is a need to invade Canada. Your failure to understand the difference is why you are part of the problem.
- GlobalistShill, on 10/11/2007, -2/+14@EntropyMan,
I thought you'd agreed to switch 'Bush & Co' in the chart to 'Company & Bush'? ;)
Also, to give you my two cents, I believe that E7 and E8 should be swapped. Anyone who has done even a small study of Adam Weishaupt, secret societies, Mayer Rothschild, the Rockefellers, Bilderberg, etc., would be able to see that a New World Order agenda is FAR more plausible (even admitted) than E7. LOL!
PS: If you are interested, I responded to one of your comments on a different thread, but I'm not sure if you ever got back around to it:
http://digg.com/politics/Order_of_Death_tops_Google_charts - smtkr, on 10/11/2007, -5/+15From the article: The documents show "the Joint Chiefs of Staff drew up and approved plans for what may be the most corrupt plan ever created by the U.S. government," writes Bamford.
Most corrupt plans until about 40 years from now when we find out about the current administration. - gibbwake, on 10/11/2007, -7/+179/11 absolutely was an inside job. Here is a very informative, serious comic on northwoods that puts the whole thing in context. Northwoods is an example of the oldest trick in the book elites play on their people to provoke and start wars that would otherwise be unwanted and impossible to kick off. http://www.mackwhite.com/northwoods.html
- whatevermoron, on 10/11/2007, -0/+10Nice troll, but not enough misspellings and CAPS to be a real god-groveler.
- coachace, on 10/11/2007, -2/+11This kind of thing has come up before. Does anyone recall the sinking of the Lusitania?
- ninephoenixes, on 10/11/2007, -1/+10Hey guy, go read the actual story on ABC. You know, the one that says May 1, 2001 on it.
- catbeller, on 10/11/2007, -3/+11The 911 commission was explicitly not authorized to investigate the Bush administration in any way. And Bush and Cheney testified together, did not take an oath to tell the truth, and if I'm not mistaken the "interview" with the 911 commission was off the record and unrecorded. The Republicans dominated that committee, and softballs were served along with tea. So. There never was a 911 investigation.
- EntropyMan, on 10/11/2007, -2/+10Yeah, on second thought, I'll swap them on the official version on my blog. Thanks. I'll also look at your other comment when I get a sec.
- ninephoenixes, on 10/11/2007, -5/+13And I quote from http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/11818067/the_low_post_the_hopeless_stupidity_of_911_conspiracies/4
"Whenever anyone chooses to dismiss 9/11 conspiracy theorists, accusations fly; the Internet screams that you've aided and abetted George Bush. I disagree. To me, the 9/11 Truth movement is, itself, a classic example of the pathology of George Bush's America. Bush has presided over a country that has become hopelessly divided into insoluble, paranoid tribes, one of which happens to be Bush's own government. All of these tribes have things in common; they're insular movements that construct their own reality by cherry-picking the evidence they like from the vast information marketplace, violently disbelieve in the humanity of those outside their ranks, and lavishly praise their own movement mediocrities as great thinkers and achievers. There are as many Thomas Paines in the 9/11 Truth movement as there are Isaac Newtons among the Intelligent Design crowd.
There's not a whole lot of difference, psychologically, between Sean Hannity's followers believing liberals to be the same as terrorists, and 9/11 Truthers believing even the lowest soldier or rank-and-file FAA or NORAD official to be a cold-blooded mass murderer. In both cases you have to be far gone enough into your private world of silly tribal ***** that the concept of "your fellow citizen" has ceased to have any meaning whatsoever. It may be that America has become too big and complicated for most people to deal with being part of. People are longing for a smaller, stupider reality. Some, like Bush, sell a prepackaged version. Others just make theirs up out of thin air. God help us." - JebBlack, on 10/11/2007, -0/+7Scary to think your own government is plotting to kill innocent american's to go to war for oil riches. But the dumb down american nitwit would call you un-american for even thinking such a thing. But wait goober...i got proof right here in this document. Oh, i'm a conspiracy theorist, ofcourse. How simple life is. American's need to be aware that our media is pure propaganda. Tell a friend!
- hawkeye17, on 10/11/2007, -2/+9They were willing to do this ***** so I doubt that finding a way to kill the Kennedy's and Martin Luther King would have been a problem for these insane asshats. I still don't buy the official stories of those assassinations.
- blockbot, on 10/11/2007, -2/+9I can't wait to see what kind of documents will turn up from our current government in 40-50 yrs.
- finalbroadcast, on 10/11/2007, -3/+10Um, you guys ever hear of the Gulf of Tonkin incident?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_Incident - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -3/+10All i'm saying is if it was considered and put into a vote back in 1960 ...Something tells me it doesn't fare to well in something could have possibly took place as far as talks or actions 40 some yrs later when issue War on Iraq.
And to be honest we will honestly never know. And far as i'm concerned were to deep in the ***** now to figure out how we got into it be but we rather should figure out how we are going to get out of it !!
One thing we do know is administration corrupt na dhave only gotten worse ( not better ) over the years and will only get worse form here on out !!
Quoted by: Nuff Said ! - MrAllhands, on 10/11/2007, -5/+11This is old news. It's about time that the mainstream media picks up on this. EVERY American should be aware of this incident and the events surrounding it.
- EntropyMan, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6The ABC article is from 2001.
- EntropyMan, on 10/11/2007, -1/+7That's the smartest comment on this whole page. And for that, you get a whopping zero diggs.
- theradical, on 10/11/2007, -5/+11http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods
- FAT_PIGGY, on 10/11/2007, -1/+7This is old and been unclassified for awhile.
- digbird, on 10/11/2007, -2/+8@geekee
that's a very good comment about Chavez and the fact that the Digg Community would rather spend two days obsessing about a six year old news story about something 46 years ago is pretty sad.
I would add to the, "it's sad" pile, Putin is busy dragging Russia back to the dark ages, and nobody here seems to care about that either. - EntropyMan, on 10/11/2007, -2/+8@GS, Yeah, I was playing with "Company & Bush" on my blog, but it didn't seem to flow as well. So I shortened it.
On E7 & E8, I think that's a fair point. I was thinking about swapping them, but some people really don't get how hard it would be to fake those videos of planes, or realize how hard it would be to pull off a global subversion like that. Anyone else can chime in on that and let me know if I should swap them. - hologrammanical, on 10/11/2007, -5/+10no one is searching for any hard evidence. the 9/11 commission still had the interests of America in mind and in no way wanted to even begin to reveal that bush may have been complicit (passively or actively) in the acts of 9/11. so until someone makes a real unbiased investigation (such as an international body untainted by US interests), there will be no real hard evidence to support all the suggestions and speculation of conspiracy theorists.
to me, the idea is not whether or not we can prove that Bush and Co. actually were directly involved in the attacks, but the idea that they are so dastardly a group that we can actually believe that they would. i can't prove anything regarding their involvement, but i sure as hell can believe that it's possible that they would not even blink an eye when it comes to sacrificing innocent American lives for the sake of their agenda.
Iraq war anyone? you think they lose any sleep over loss of life there? the number of dead from 9/11 is just about the same number (though the gap is widening quickly). they could give a ***** less about American lives, so i don't doubt for a second that they could have caused it. it's too convenient for them. - LopsidedZebra, on 10/11/2007, -2/+7thank you for pointing out the obvious...
- EntropyMan, on 10/11/2007, -1/+5That was the other day's version of this post. But I guess the URL was already dugg.
- geekee, on 10/11/2007, -7/+11Chavez shuts down a major opposition tv station, but this is what makes the front page of Digg.
- fuzzmeister, on 10/11/2007, -6/+10Would the government have declassified this if it was still relevant to their current operations? I'm pretty sure that if the government was involved in such a plot in the current day, they wouldn't let documents out that would provoke suspicion that they were capable of such acts.
- Pfhreak, on 10/11/2007, -6/+10Like the Republicans have done a bang-up job the last six years or so.
I say we all vote third party: there's both "alternative" conservative (Constitutional, Libertarian) and "alternative" liberal (Green) parties operating on the federal level for your presidential and congressional needs, and a host of local parties suitable for your congressional, gubernatorial, state legislature, and local needs. Go forth and stop backing the two, corrupt dinosaurs.
Wait, are you saying we shouldn't have a Democratic administration ever again because Kennedy said "no" to this unethical, illegal, and ultimately boneheaded scheme? If that's the case, I'd add: you scare me. - MadN, on 10/11/2007, -3/+7EntropyMan:
I was an E-4, but was promoted to E-5.
LOL
/Bush Sr. knew about plans to fly planes into the Trade Center in 1988, when he worked under Ronald Reagan.
//OBL's brother in law paid millions in the 1990's to the Orlando Police dept and Florida Hospital, Why? - ninephoenixes, on 10/11/2007, -6/+10Jesus Christ. Read the post 2 centimeters above this one.
The folks behind Loose Change couldn't uncover a Hungry Man dinner from a sheet of cellophane. - thakidd, on 10/11/2007, -2/+6@Bohica your screwloosechange CANNOT REFUTE THE FACTS!!!
Open your eyes people, IF IT DOESNT MAKE SENSE, IT MAKE A HELL OF A LOT OF DOLLARS!
On April 26 of 2001 the Board of Commissioners for the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey awarded Silverstein Properties and mall-owner Westfield America a 99-year-lease on the following assets: The Twin Towers, World Trade Center Buildings 4 and 5, two 9-story office buildings, and 400,000 square feet of retail space.
The partners' winning bid was $3.2 billion for holdings estimated to be worth more than $8 billion. JP Morgan Chase, a prestigious investment-bank that's the flagship firm of its kind for Rockefeller family interests, advised the Port Authority, another body long influenced by banker and builder David Rockefeller, his age then 85, in the negotiations.
The lead partner and spokesperson for the winning bidders, Larry Silverstein, age 70, already controlled more than 8 million square feet of New York City real estate. WTC 7 and the nearby Equitable Building were prime among these prior holdings. Larry Silverstein also owned Runway 69, a nightclub in Queens that was alleged 9 years ago to be laundering money made through sales of Laotian heroin. source:http://www.wireonfire.com/donpaul/911.html
In December 2003, the Port Authority agreed to return all of the $125 million in equity that the consortium headed by Silverstein originally invested to buy the lease on the World Trade Center. The Port Authority rejected a request by the Wall Street Journal to review the transaction. source:http://www.realestatejournal.com/propertyreport/newsandtrends/20040312-starkman.html?refresh=on
A press report from November 2003 about the same transaction noted that it would allow Silverstein to retain development rights. source:http://911research.wtc7.net/cache/wtc/background/rednova_wtcdownpayment.html
The lease deal didn't close until July 24th, just 6 weeks before the attack. source:http://911review.com/motive/docs/insurance_scam.html
***Insurance Payouts***
Don Paul also documented the money flows surrounding the loss of Building 7.
In February of 2002 Silverstein Properties won $861 million from Industrial Risk Insurers to rebuild on the site of WTC 7. Silverstein Properties' estimated investment in WTC 7 was $386 million. So: This building's collapse resulted in a profit of about $500 million.
The insurance money flows involved in the destruction of the original six World Trade Center buildings were far greater. Silverstein Properties, the majority owner of WTC 7, also had the majority interest in the original World Trade Center complex. Silverstein hired Willis Group Holdings Ltd. to obtain enough coverage for the complex. Willis undertook "frenetic" negotiations to acquire insurance from 25 carriers. The agreements were only temporary contracts when control of the WTC changed hands on July 24. source:http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1030343783307
After the attack, Silverstein Properties commenced litigation against its insurers, claiming it was entitled to twice the insurance policies' value because, according to a spokesman for Mr. Silverstein, "the two hijacked airliners that struck the 110-story twin towers Sept. 11 were separate 'occurrences' for insurance purposes, entitling him to collect twice on $3.6 billion of policies." This was reported in the Bloomberg News less than one month after the attack. source:http://www.nynewsday.com/news/ny-wtccourtdoc,0,7616972.story
The ensuing legal battle between the leaseholders and insurers of the World Trade Center was not about how the 9/11/01 attack on the WTC could be considered two attacks, when the WTC was only destroyed once. Rather it seemed to revolve around whether the beneficiaries thought it was one or two "occurrences." The proceedings before U.S. District Judge John S. Martin involved a number of battles over the insurers' discovery rights regarding conversations about this issue between insurance beneficiaries and their lawyers.
sources: http://www.law.com/jsp/printerfriendly.jsp?c=LawArticle&t=PrinterFriendlyArticle&cid=1024078862232
http://www.law.com/jsp/printerfriendly.jsp?c=LawArticle&t=PrinterFriendlyArticle&cid=1024078945927
In December 2004, a jury ruled in favor of the insurance holders' double claim.
source:http://911research.wtc7.net/cache/wtc/background/fox23news_billions.html - Arch77, on 10/11/2007, -3/+6"We could sink a boatload of Cubans enroute to Florida (real or simulated)" p. 12.
Who are these people?
anyone else having a Serenity moment? -
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