What is Digg?321 Comments
- remmertrd, on 10/11/2007, -29/+212I know for a fact that in 1973 the oil companies were lying to the public about gas shortages.
One of my jobs that year was cleaning up oil spills because the tanks could not hold the fuel. but we were told there was a shortage.
I feel that the oil companies should be charged with gouging the prices during Katrina just as a plywood seller would. someone needs to go to jail. The government has allowed the oil companies to merge causing the market to be run with no competition. It is time that our congress to quit taking favors from oil companies and start doing their job. - vanimal, on 10/11/2007, -14/+85@yevda "if any of them lowers their price, they all do"
From what I've seen around here with nearly adjacent gas stations, it's the exact opposite. If one of them raises their prices, they all do. It has a very collusion-like feel to it. If they were really competing, they would try to reduce costs of production and distribution to sell for a few cents less and have a chance to steal a lot of their competitors' business. - alpinecow, on 10/11/2007, -18/+88Let's step back a sec...has anyone considered that a poll taken by a website called DailyFuelEconomy.com might be a tad biased in its sample selection? How 'bout we take this type of bias to the extreme: would you believe that a GeorgeBushforEmperor.com poll revealed that 70% of Americans are in favor of electing Bush as Emperor was unbiased?
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -8/+55Enron taught us all an important lesson about how detrimental it can be when supply is manipulated for greater profits. Manipulating supply is cheaper and easier than expanding refineries.
- FuzzyCat, on 10/11/2007, -33/+78
68.27% of statistics are made up. - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -2/+41Well first off there's OPEC, who don't exactly try to hide the fact that they manipulate prices.
- bemenaker, on 10/11/2007, -4/+41What about all the mothballed refineries in California. There were 30, now there are 16 operating. Why are we still using 14 different blends of gasoline based on what level of pollution is in that area? This just drives up the cost overall. Make everyone burn the cleanest burning blend, and because all refineries are putting out the same thing, cost goes down, and supply goes up, because there is no use restriction on the cleanest burning fuel. There are realistic things that can be done, and alcohol, especially from corn, is just retarded.
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -5/+34It's the manipulation of refineries and continual "oops" moments that combined add up to huge profits.
What incentive does the gas industry have to make things better?
They make LESS gas, they make MORE profit.
This is a system that will break America. - aikimann, on 10/11/2007, -10/+39Does anyone here know the difference between "profit" and a "profit margin"? If you answered no like most people, then you probably believe oil companies are ripping you off. And I don't blame you. Record profits in the billions by a company selling a commodity you absolutely need is enough to piss anyone off. But check out this quick economics example.
If you make about 10 cents per dollar of product sold (b/c it costs you 90 cents on the dollar to make the product), your profit margin is 10%. If you sell a million dollars worth of stuff, your profits are $10 million, and your profit margin is still 10%.
Now what happens if people buy more and more of your stuff? Say, into the billions? All of a sudden you're making billions of dollars in "profits". "Billions of dollars in profits?! That can't be right! You must be price gouging! How else could you make such high profits?" The answer is, more and more people keep buying more and more of your stuff.
Let's take Exxon for example. In 2004 its profit margin ranked 127 on the Fortune 500 list at 9.7%. That year Citigroup had a 15.7% profit margin, Merck made 25.35%, and in 2005 Microsoft's was 28%! Compared to other industries, the oil industry does pitifully.
If you really want to find out how much a company is profiting and whether it's going up or down, you look at the profit margin, not the profits. If a company raised the price of a product just because they wanted to make more money, then their profit margin would spike up. Take Merck for example. A pharmaceutical company that holds the patents on a number of drugs can charge whatever they like. Hence their high profit margin. If it costs a company more money to make their product, and they raise their prices accordingly, then their profit margin should stay about the same. So what about Exxon? What has their profit margin been doing? For the past few years it's been hovering around 10% plus or minus a couple points.
If you want to blame anyone for artificially high gas prices, blame your congressman. The government makes more money on a gallon of gas than the oil companies do. From 1977 to 2004, the government made 3 TIMES the oil companies' profits in the form of taxes on the oil companies and taxes on gas at the pump. That's about $2.2 trillion in today's dollars. Now THAT'S record profit.
Please people, for the sake of the future of this country, don't let politicians manipulate you. Think for yourself and do your own research. Don't let politicians treat you like sheeple. You're smarter than that.
Here's some relevant articles for anyone interested:
http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/1459.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/27/AR2005102702399.html - hobbers, on 10/11/2007, -8/+33"If they were really competing, they would try to reduce costs of production and distribution to sell for a few cents less and have a chance to steal a lot of their competitors' business."
Do you guys seriously make decisions based on a few cents difference in the price of a $3.50 gallon of gas? My tank capacity is 18 gallons, and I fill up about once every 2 weeks.
$3.50 * 18 = $63.00
$3.45 * 18 = $62.10
delta = $0.90
Bi-weekly savings = delta = $0.90
Annual savings = delta * (52 / 2) = $23.40
At $23.40 a year, it ain't worth my time to seek out the lowest costs gas (where the difference is $0.05). Instead, I look for the gas station that is easiest to get in and out of, or has the fewest people, is on my way to something else, etc. Let's say I get to an intersection by my place where I would turn right to get home. There's 2 gas stations - one at $3.50 that is on the corner that I'm making my right turn around, and another at $3.45 on the opposite corner that would require me to make a left turn AND come back through the traffic light. I'm taking the $3.50 one.
There is no competition in gas prices, everyone charges the same price. I can't believe (or understand) anyone that thinks those $0.02 difference across a street corner is anything other than a charade.
The only competition (if there is any) is in the production of the gas. Since everyone is selling at $3.50 +/- $0.05, the only difference in profits are due to one company stream lining their process so it costs them $2 to produce the gallon, and another company that is inefficient so it costs them $2.50 to produce a gallon. - aikimann, on 10/11/2007, -4/+26Rather than shout conspiratorial tirades, I laid out a simple, logical, argument about economics and politicians taking advantage of people, and I get dugg down within minutes. What happened to just digging down the crazy, retarded people and respecting those with opposing viewpoints?
An intellectual haven, Digg is not. - SnuKs, on 10/11/2007, -6/+27The lowest I've seen gas within the last 12 months was last November... during the election.
Go figure /sarcasm - tekz0r, on 10/11/2007, -3/+21I draw parallels with the likes of DeBeers and their diamond monopoly. Diamonds are so abundant, but if they're all holed up in some vault they become a girl's best friend and cost us an arm and a leg. There have been laws passed against the manufacturing of artificial diamonds (which are identical to real diamonds, even an appraiser couldn't tell the difference) that essential pandered to the whim of the currently standing diamond industry, all to the detriment of the population at large. Yet nothing is done about it. Those diamonds can be used for advanced surgical tools, electronics, etc, but leave it to the wealthy to do everything in their power to stay that way.
- bjornski, on 10/11/2007, -9/+26At least in Europe the higher costs are justified as being taxes that help pay for infrastructure.
In America, they're in the form of profits, that help pay for yachts and $105million beach property. - zenstrom, on 10/11/2007, -2/+19While that's true, Canada and Mexico are our largest suppliers of oil (http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/company_level_imports/current/import.html) and they aren't even members of OPEC. The truth is that while the oil companies would like to have us believe it's some unreasonable foreign countries that are the source of our problems, OPEC is only part of it. Building more oil refineries (something that's completely within their power) would reduce the cost of gasoline but they have no incentive to do so. Actually, building more would be contrary to their interests--that is, posting record profits.
- holzp, on 10/11/2007, -3/+19I am no economist but I have a degree in common sense. When Company A makes a billion in profit and Company B makes a billion in profit and they have outlets across the street from each other selling the exact same thing at the exact same price and neither is trying to underprice the other I sense collusion.
- PuffyC, on 10/11/2007, -3/+18RE: Gas prices
Actually adjusted for inflation we ARE at an all time high. Just barely but all the same... - EochaidRiata, on 10/11/2007, -1/+14Most US states have laws making it illegal to sell gasoline below a certain level above wholesale prices.
http://digg.com/business_finance/Wisconsin_threatens_to_sue_Gas_Station_for_LOW_Gas_Prices - Ajajadude, on 10/11/2007, -7/+20Yeah, I can see how multi-billion dollar corporations can be stopped by local tree huggers when it comes time to build new refineries, but are capable of getting past any opposition when it comes to something they REALLY want. They have enough money and influence in Congress to get new refineries built.
- cdharrison, on 10/11/2007, -2/+15@Yevda: Having several different gas stations doesn't mean they're all getting their gas from different companies. In many cases the same supplier provides gas to those stations.
- ruz322, on 10/11/2007, -4/+17One word, Venezuela. Hugo Chavez recently nationalized all the oil fields there and kicked all the private companies such as Exxon and BP out. They don't have the technology or the manpower that the private companies had, therefore they are not producing as much oil. The US gets much of its oil from Venezuela so I'm pretty sure there is somewhat of a shortage, but I don't know if it is so severe that gas prices should be as high as they are. It's basically a game to big oil business to rip off the American people and our sorry government is so deep in the pockets of these businesses it is almost sickening.
- etandrib, on 10/11/2007, -1/+14Haha. I didn't buy gas on May 15th either… because my tank was full. I'm sure that 20% of other American's didn't buy gas on the 15th either... not because of a boycott, but because they filled up their tanks on the other SIX days of the week.
Boycotting gas for a single day doesn't make any difference whatsoever... now if everyone didn't buy gas in the month of May because they were walking or riding bikes to work that would be a different story. Don't waste my time with stupid SPAM about boycotting gas. Learn how to use less of it because with gas going up there is a good incentive to use less. Basic Economics. Gas prices is a glowing example. - aikimann, on 10/11/2007, -6/+18@moosehawk
"So why don't oil companies just build more refineries? Because they cost billions of dollars, and it would eat[sic] into their profits."
It's next to impossible to get approval to build a refinery. Which is why not a single one has been built in decades. Let's all give a round of applause to the EPA. I'm all for trying to protect the environment, but let's do it pragmatically. - CarbideTipped, on 10/11/2007, -4/+16Just a few years ago gas never jumped $.30 in one day. Why now?
- 69sofine, on 10/11/2007, -1/+12Yes, oil companies have been posting record profits for the last 3 years. But this wasn't always the case, our national refining capacity has actually decreased from the 70's because oil companies had thin profits and it was cheaper to either close or renovate existing refineries as opposed to building new ones. So now we're faced with a consolidated industry and reduced refining capacity. I agree that oil companies are currently in a position to be able to build new refineries, and they should. But do you think that $2.5 billion dollar facilities with huge environmental impact will pop up overnight?
- Moosehawk, on 10/11/2007, -14/+25Um, duh the gas supply is being manipulated?
Crude oil commodity is down to 64.25 for July. If you have any idea how supply and demand works, you would know that if prices go down for one good, that would mean supply is up. Although demand doesn't necessarily change for gas, supply does. This means that a large quantity of oil is coming in, but because of lack of refineries, everything bottlenecks down, which THEN causes the lack of supply. Lack of supply + demand = high price.
So why don't oil companies just build more refineries? Because they cost billions of dollars, and it would into their profits. - Skywise, on 10/11/2007, -11/+22Most people believe in God.
Does that mean God must provably exist because seemingly everyone believes it? - lordfly, on 10/11/2007, -1/+11Gas is expensive because 3+ billion people in Asia are now suddenly having enough money to buy cars, and Americans are still driving SUVs that get 12 MPG.
Supply and Demand is a bitch, I know. - Independentsam, on 10/11/2007, -0/+9An important question (I don't know the answer) is how many US refineries have been closed? I do know that one in Casper, Wyoming was closed several years ago. Honestly, I can't remember why. Thus I am curious as to how many refineries that supplied the US have been shut down and why.
- bryanedds, on 10/11/2007, -4/+12Gas Prices HAVEN'T Changed Much.
Does that statement sound odd? It won't for long ;)
Consider the value of gold. The overall value of gold hasn't changed much in the past decade. Gold's value generally stays stable because it's demand and supply doesn't much change. This is what makes gold such a great currency to hold on to when the economy gets unstable.
So what has changed to cause the jump in gas prices? The value of the US dollar is what has changed. You see, when the Federal Reserve inflates the money supply by printing money (or simply creating it digitally in the accounts of its member banks), the value of the dollars you and I hold decrease. If the American people start off holding 1 trillion dollars in currency, then the Federal Reserve creates another trillion dollars out of thin air, the money the people hold is worth effectively half. In other words, the people are robbed of %50 of their wealth, and that wealth is in turn redistributed to selected member banks and favored government contractors such as Halliburton and KBR.
Inflation of the money supply is simply the transfer of wealth from the poor and middle class to the rich corporatists. It is theft of the most incredible propertions, and utterly destructive of the poorest among us.
Now, knowing this much, we can understand that the change in the _dollar_ price in gas is NOT necessarily caused by greedy oil barons and their supposed leverage. The reality is that, in gold standard value, gas prices remain roughly the same. What is actually causing the increase in gas prices, and almost all other prices, is inflation. This inflation, of course, is caused by the government.
The value of the american people's savings and wealth is robbed continuously without mercy by the Federal Reserve system. The american people fall further into poverty while the corporatists get richer. Wages cannot keep up with inflation, and the boom / bust cycle takes its toll on our economy (which is a whole nother issue). It is the government, once again, who is really robbing the american people blind. The left throws up distraction by blaming it on capitalism. They just want a bigger government. I suppose they have no problem with robbing us blind. I suppose they only wish to do it more. At best, they are incredibly ignorant of their own complicity in evil. Neither possibility is excusable.
So get informed! Check out this video on inflation from the Mises Institute of economics -
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-466210540567002553&q=mises
And here's a book that people really should read so they can have a maximally informed opinion on these incredibly important political policies -
http://www.mises.org/books/onelesson.pdf - Moosehawk, on 10/11/2007, -10/+17And yes, the gas prices of 1973 were the highest prices America has seen to this day according to inflation. Average inflation rate per year is 3-4%. Gas prices were around $1.20 back then. $1.20 back then equals out to be $5.59 today.
- Taedirk, on 10/11/2007, -5/+12~20% of people don't believe gas prices are being manipulated.
~20% of people approve of Bush
Coincidence? - xavihax0r, on 10/11/2007, -3/+9HEADLINE: At least 80% of Americans are uninformed about most topics and their opinions merely show the effectiveness of media in convincing the uneducated masses
- SnuKs, on 10/11/2007, -3/+9@ fober
"I hope gas prices hit the $10 mark if that's what it's going to take for alternative fuels to hit the mainstream."
Do you honestly thnk that's going to make people happy? The Earth wont turn green just like that, it'll take some time. Right now there are a lot of alternative fuels along with hybrids, but the public needs to be educated about them, plus it will take a looong time before it becomes mainstream.
There are roughly 150 million cars here in the US which all run on gas or diesel. Im just guessing here, but I believe you'd need to modify or buy a new car that can actually use alternative fuels. Plus it's hard to find a station that actually sells them. I highly doubt every car owner can afford to do that.
I'm just saying at $10 it wouldn't change anything. People would just spend waaaaay more cash. The oil companies have us where they want us =( - Civil44, on 10/11/2007, -5/+11I watched the movie "Enron" today for the first time. And drew parallels the first time I read the headline for this story. It's like...duhhhhhh
- Kohath, on 10/11/2007, -2/+8When gas was $1, a 10% increase was only a dime. At $3 a gallon, it's 30 cents.
- smellmyballs, on 10/11/2007, -6/+12This should go under the "NO DUH!" category. Most politicians (if not all) are owned by big business and until that changes, which sadly probably won't happen in our lifetimes, get ready to pay $4 plus a gallon for gas. It's a shame and an analogy for what's wrong with our government.
- topapito, on 10/11/2007, -5/+11Wow, is Digg really so full of conspiracy theorists? Ok, to clarify, I m not calling the Gas companies saints, nor am I calling them conspirators. But to be fair, there are a couple of things that people should know, or do and choose to ignore when pointing fingers. Gasoline prices have nothing at all to do with the actual world prices. They are two separate products and they are both traded separately on the world stock exchanges. Gas prices swing just like stock market prices do. Now, that being said, if you owned a gas company, would you not run it to maximize profits all the time? Let's not be holier than thow here. These companies are doing what any of us would do.
Now, one question I haven't heard is, why governments are so quiet as their citizens get raped? And I will answer that question with another question. Have you ever read the stickers on your gas pump? Yeah, that one that says that in most places, the tax on gasoline exceeds 40% of the actual price on the pump. Now take a wild guess as to why the governments are quiet. Come on, work those neurons.
Regular street folk will never be able to beat those odds, pay up and shut up or buy a bicycle. But nothing we say or do will change things. Too much money at stake here for anyone to make a dent in this thing. - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6drooliussneezer:
the 30 years since we've built a refinery part I've been hearing for years. CNN is far from being ahead of the curve, I'd say that "The Economist", left and right wing blogs, drudge, and right wing radio are all way ahead of cable news. It's the amount of refined gasoline we import that was news to me.. and emphasis was given on the fact that with every state requiring different standards for their gas, the refineries had to make dozens of different types of gas. - savmac, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6"80% of people" are you kidding? Any statistic that begins with 80% of PEOPLE is automatically flawed and should be viewed as such. Go to college, take Statistics 101.
- GunbladeVIII, on 10/11/2007, -2/+8Seriously, I don't care if the conspiracy theories are true or not. If you think gas is too expensive, then buy less of it. Buy a more fuel efficient car, and you don't even have to go hybrid; a regular old compact car probably gets at least 10 MPG more than an SUV. Use the car less than you do now. Use mass transit more.
Either prices are being manipulated, or it's simple supply and demand. Doesn't matter; it's still effing expensive, and the things that I can do about it don't change in either case. - SteelChicken, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6they pay more in socialist paradise taxes.
US taxes on gas are quite low in comparision. - Sairgem, on 10/11/2007, -3/+9"Ride a bike."
You ride a bike 10 miles to and from work everyday, k? - KireGoTI, on 10/11/2007, -3/+9Anyone in this topic aware that if supply and demand were actually used to determine gas prices, like it is for most things, they'd be several times higher? Political manipulation to lower the price of gas ring a bell? Anybody?
You know, estimates made ten years ago said we would completely run out of oil by 2060, and since then our gas consumption has far exceeded expectations. Meanwhile, there's turmoil in the countries that produce the most oil in the world and demand for oil is higher than at any other point in history. So when gas prices go up it's obviously a conspiracy.
Did anyone actually read the article? This guy doesn't think it's a conspiracy, either.
And the government didn't blow up the twin towers. And we landed on the moon. And Lee Harvey Oswald shot JFK and acted alone. And long fingers don't correlate with high intelligence. And personality changes only happen through trauma, everything else being just collected experience and mood. And nobody's getting impeached by the time the next election rolls around, particularly with an almost evenly split Congress. Neither Ron Paul nor Mike Gravel is going to win in 2008, and nobody has discovered a surefire cure for cancer, aids, or diabetes.
Digg has a serious case of the stupids lately. - bjornski, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6Coca-Cola doesn't like your attitude
- DrooliusSneezer, on 10/11/2007, -2/+7DangerMouse9:
April, 1979:
President: Jimmy Carter
Crude oil prices @ $15.85/barrel
12 months later
Crude oil price @ $39.50/barrel (its All Time Highest REAL price [inflation adjusted] until early 2006)
You're going to have a hard time convincing someone who had to wait in half-block long gas lines (me) back in '79 that Dems serve me any better than Repubs when it comes to how much I shell out for gasoline. - Ibanezfoo, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5I can't use it on my Cheerios
- bjornski, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5I love the people that bitch about gas prices, but yet claim that it's all "supply and demand" as they climb into their 10mpg SUV.
- wiachy, on 10/11/2007, -6/+1180% of the people are idiots.
- geekee, on 10/11/2007, -2/+7I believe consumers are manipulating gas prices in the US by buying SUVs, when they only need mid-size sedans. Learn economics, Digg idiot propagandists.
-
Show 51 - 100 of 317 discussions
Check out the new & improved 
© Digg Inc. 2009
— Content created and posted by Digg users is