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- mksmothers, on 10/26/2009, -10/+36Heroes? How are they heroes? When I was sleeping did the government of Aghanistan declare war on the United States and bomb San Francisco? I'm a veteran of the First Iraq war, and I can tell you that this cluster-***** in Iraq and Afghanistan has got to stop. You do not automatically get hero-status because that travesty against nature called a helicopter crashes, you are just likely to be dead.
Soldiers are dying in that country for nothing. They aren't doing anything heroic, they are just trying to stay alive. Calling dead soldiers heroes just encourages more civilians to put on a uniform and enter the IED lottery.
Death isn't heroic, its just bad. If we want to have men and women die in a foreign country, don't you think it should be for a just cause? Occupying a country like a Roman soldier is getting young men and women killed. Time to fess up, say we're sorry and leave. - MacBookForMe, on 10/26/2009, -18/+32R.I.P. heroes
- acknotSW, on 10/26/2009, -3/+13I have nothing but admiration and respect for anyone with the balls to serve in the military, but I have to agree; get the ***** out, they are dying for nothing over there.
There is no "winning" in either situation. You will never have a strong central government in Afghanistan, the terrain, the infrastructure, and the people themselves and not conducive to that kind of government.
In Iraq you have 2 religious factions that both want to be in charge and hate each other. Nothing any government does is going to change that or their desire to kill the other side. Saddam kept them in check by being a ruthless iron fisted dictator. I'm not saying that's what they need again, I'm just saying nothing short of that is going to stop the killing at this point. Let them have their civil war and be done with it. - L0NER, on 10/26/2009, -3/+13Not enough troops? there are so many that they are crashing into each other.
RIP soldiers - theNazz, on 10/26/2009, -5/+15Make that 11 US troops and 3 DEA agents. Why is the DEA in Afganistan? Because we're the cops of the world. How's the 'dead or alive' search for OBL going? We disbanded the OBL finding team again just a few weeks after the election... I guess we're in Afghanistan for nation building and occupation. Nobody wins an occupation in Afghanistan, just ask the former USSR.
- mksmothers, on 10/26/2009, -1/+10we're there because war is profitable.
- MyKillK, on 10/26/2009, -1/+8they need the DEA to ensure that the opium harvests are as successful as possible so the CIA can sell it across the world
- Wargala, on 10/26/2009, -2/+9Please Digg, how about you not confuse the reasons for the war in Iraq for the war in Afghanistan. It makes you look stupid when you do.
- tgc1, on 10/26/2009, -2/+9Glad someone on the inside could finally point out the futile nature of this mission.
- elwey, on 10/26/2009, -2/+8Very easy people, if you don't want to die or be mutilated, don't go to war.
If for a strange reason you or someone you know decides to go, then expect the worst, accept it, don't complain. It's the nature of war. - rmxz, on 10/26/2009, -6/+12"seven troops and three Drug Enforcement Administration agents. "
Some might think that using the military to enforce drug laws in other countries is more an act of over-extending a role as a world's policeman rather than an act of heroism.
For the soldiers, I'd think it's more an act of "just following orders" than heroism. - idc5, on 10/26/2009, -4/+10Unlike Bush, Obama doesn't continue to engage in unnecessary wars.
/s - kaelyiesta, on 10/26/2009, -3/+8Oil, continuation of oil being sold in dollars, military industry lobby and Iran.
- MyKillK, on 10/26/2009, -0/+5Sure!
THEN:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3071809/
"But last July [2000], the Taliban’s leader, Mullah Mohammed Omar, issued an extraordinary edict. It banned poppy cultivation in Afghanistan, calling drug production un-Islamic. Few in international law enforcement took Omar’s edict seriously — until now.
Earlier this month, an international delegation led by the United Nations Drug Control Program — which included two U.S. government narcotics experts —visited Afghanistan to study the impact of Omar’s ban.
Delegates told MSNBC.com that during the 10-day visit they found no evidence of poppy crops anywhere in the survey area, which concentrated on the biggest poppy-growing region of Afghanistan."
NOW:
http://www.paktribune.com/news/index.shtml?198165
"Afghanistan supplies about 93 percent of the illicit opiates in the global market and 193,000 hectares of land in the country are devoted to illegal cultivation of opium poppy" - andyb747, on 10/26/2009, -0/+5Like this..
http://tinyurl.com/yjynsry - MyKillK, on 10/26/2009, -0/+4Speaking of dim, I don't think you read his comment very carefully
- EddiePotato, on 10/26/2009, -0/+4The US thinks it's going to fare better because it has much better military technology now than the USSR did in the 80s. But we probably won't fare any better, because our bombs will *never* win the hearts and minds of average Afghans. Just the opposite, in fact.
The bulk of the money and effort we're putting into that place should go to building schools and infrastructure, and supporting local activists and leaders for democratic reforms and women's rights. The most effective military tactic in a desperate land is offering hope to average people. Do that, and they become the best and most powerful allies you can possibly ask for. - methdwman3, on 10/26/2009, -1/+5You lost me at "hired hitmen". The military is exactly the career you go into if you want to make serious dough.
- MyKillK, on 10/26/2009, -0/+4The Taleban do not like heroin. They were trying to eradicate the poppy fields, and very nearly did so. They put the drug lords in jail. Now that the US is back in charge, the drug lords are free and the harvests are bigger than ever.
That rationale is 100% pure bull poop. - xOrion73x, on 10/26/2009, -0/+4Doesn't make me cringe... but it explains a lot..
What I read about it screams the "Superiority Complex" translation.
This really has become a pathetic country on many ways. - bb5999, on 10/26/2009, -1/+5Our service men and women should be home rebuilding infrastructure in our own country. The waste, the foreign policies, have bankrupted our great nation. The imperialist ways of the US fed government must stop. Fighting and dying for "interests" over seas is a great lie. In whose interest are our countrymen stationed and working all over the world, as an average American, certainly not mine.
DEA??, come on now. All branches of military, all forms of government police and enforcement and US tax payer supported contractors should all be brought home, now. The waste is insane.
Stop drinking the two party kool aid friends. Get active locally in smaller parties that endorse liberty, limited government and upholding our constitution. Write your reps in congress and let them know that you are awake and will not support them unless they end our overseas campaigns. Tell them you are now working against them, scare them. - MyKillK, on 10/26/2009, -4/+8Another 14 dead for absolutely nothing. NOTHING!
Remember when going into Afghanistan was about capturing Bin Laden, "dead or alive"? That was damn near 10 years ago YET WE'RE STILL THERE. No one really knows whether he's alive, or if he is, where he is...personally I think he's been dead for a while.
It's almost as if our elected leaders actually want to destroy our country by endlessly pursuing these mega-expensive and unwinnable wars. And guess what, that's EXACTLY what Osama Bin Laden wanted. We've been led into a trap, refuse to acknowledge our mistake, and now he has defeated the world's superpower from the grave.
If Obama was a man of the people, the wars would have started winding down the moment he took office. But it's obvious he's not, he's working for the same bankers and military-industrial-complex associates that Bush did. All of you anti-war people who voted for Obama sure got taken for suckers... - BotchaMcCoola, on 10/26/2009, -1/+5Three DEA agents? The drug wars are working so well in Mexico and Colombia better expand it.
- mksmothers, on 10/26/2009, -0/+3@BotchaMcColla: That is EXACTLY why I joined the Army. I didn't join the army out of patriotism, I wanted to live in Europe (I did), and have my college paid for (it was.) I'm almost embarassed when I"m thanked for my service, I didn't do it for them, I did it for me. I made a deal with the devil, put me in potential harm's way for three years, and in return give me money for college.
- xOrion73x, on 10/26/2009, -4/+7You, sir, are a retard.
This is caused by soldiers being there to begin with.
I agree that Obama is "dithering", and he needs to pull our asses out of there. We have no business trying to run some damn crusade while our home country is in such sorry shape.
Shrub had his vendetta for Daddy, who first failed as a MiddleEast Cowboy.. which was what screwed us up so bad to begin with. Far too many soldiers died under his crazy regime for absolutely no purpose. - BotchaMcCoola, on 10/26/2009, -2/+5Some of them expect to cash in on taxpayer money for sign-on bonuses and free college. The opposite of patriotism.
- tgc1, on 10/26/2009, -2/+5I think the US is going to continue to stay there just so they don't have to admit they ***** up. Not the people, not the military personnel. But the administration and the idiots who sold this war to the rest of the world.
Same with Iraq.
And if people haven't noticed, they're already sounding the war drums on Iran. When the ***** will this end? - MyKillK, on 10/26/2009, -0/+3Oh really mark, are you privy to some top secret information that the rest of the world doesn't know about regarding the location of Osama Bin Laden?
Goin after the Taleban was never a rationale for invading Afghanistan. It was to capture Osama Bin Laden, and now that he's dead or at the very least is no longer in Afghanistan, we should be leaving.
But nope, people like you are always creating new reasons to stay there... - goobly, on 10/26/2009, -0/+3So what you're saying is that somehow the Afghan people have invaded our neighborhoods and massacred everyone? I'm not sure I understand your question.
- markgl, on 10/26/2009, -3/+6Because Afghanistan was controlled by the Taliban and it is where Bin Laden was. Do you need a history lesson on why? Don't listen to the ass clowns above me. They don't know anything.
- acknotSW, on 10/26/2009, -0/+2@mksmothers
You shouldn't be embarrassed in the least. There is nothing wrong with signing up and getting something in return, it's the whole concept behind a volunteer army. If the only people who signed up were true patriots, we would need a draft just to maintain peace time troop levels. So I thank you and silentjay74 for your service to this country even if I disagree with our being in Iraq and Afghanistan at this time.
- quaxon, on 10/26/2009, -2/+4@silentJ
For any atrocities the taliban has caused i can name you ten caused by the US military. We are the bad ones here, Afghanistan never attacked our country, neither did Iraq, yet we've led to the death of over a million civilians there. How many people have the taliban and al qaeda combined killed? maybe 100,000? - MyKillK, on 10/26/2009, -1/+3"No other country in the history of the world has done more to prevent the spread of misery and oppression"
Nor has any country done more to cause misery and oppression in the world since the 50s - inactive, on 10/26/2009, -1/+3but but 16 months /s
- goobly, on 10/26/2009, -1/+3I think most people who read this thread will understand who the real troll is.
Hint: It's the guy who responds with propagandized retcon explanations, ad hominem attacks, and straw men. - goobly, on 10/26/2009, -2/+4Wargala, if we're not running a crusade, you should let Erik Prince of Xe (formerly Blackwater) know. He's repeatedly said that the purpose of Blackwater soldiers is to destroy Islam through a neo-crusade.
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090817/scahill
Also, ***** you. - MyKillK, on 10/26/2009, -0/+2We won't fare any better. We will end up the same as the USSR, defeated and broken, massively in debt and on the verge of implosion. The breakup of the United States is a real possibility and we have very recent history to prove it.
- shark72, on 10/26/2009, -0/+2So here's a brief (hopefully objective) history lesson:
Afghanistan was the Soviet Union's Vietnam. They were there for nine years.
We were there, too. We were there to fight against Afghanistan's Marxist government. We did this by financing the Islamist Mujahideen resistance. In the Reagan era, Marxists were apparently less tolerated than radical Islamists.
And, of course, this led to the Taliban, and a major part of the plotline for "The Living Daylights." Which is worse is your call.
The rationale for continuing the fight in Afghanistan is that if we do not stop the Taliban, they will use profits from the heroin trade to continue their offensive into Pakistan and the middle east.
Whether this is a big deal is, as the math textbooks state, an exercise left to the reader.
- lastmaster, on 10/27/2009, -0/+1you hate my country then GTFO!
- FullClip, on 10/27/2009, -0/+1Ummm.. Didn't know their was oil in Afghanistan. Maybe they need to stop making so much heroine and plop some oil wells down there? And most of out forefathers (George Washington) I believe fought in a little war. Oh and all those heroic scientists you know the ones that gave us Nuke's, and Chemical warfare, and the explosives to strap to nut cases bodies so they can blow themselves up in the name of some make believe god??? Yeah screw some 19 year old for risking his life everyday to protect a bunch of stone age people. Obama's so right to sit there and do nothing.. It will save this country so much money, because it's easier not to reinforce out troops and to just let then get killed and stackem up in boxes for the trip home.. Nope no damn heros in the military..
- plaguepony, on 10/26/2009, -0/+1*****, the doesn't even have his driver's licence.
- bbjohnnyt, on 10/26/2009, -0/+1@MyKillK: Do you really believe your "since the 50s" qualification makes up for the estimated 100 MILLION people that died, not to mention the hundreds of millions more that suffered, and are currently suffering, under brutal "serve the Collective" governments?
God bless America and protect Her from idiots like you. - wondertwins, on 10/26/2009, -2/+3Innocent people dying in a meaningless war....
- quaxon, on 10/26/2009, -1/+2American soldiers murder for a living. Sorry, but a murderer does not equal hero in my book. ***** all those who signed up for an illegal war and are now in a country we have no reason to be in, killing innocent civilians and labeling those who are fighting for their country "terrorists" to justify the murders. ***** the troops and i hope they get whats coming to them.
- EddiePotato, on 10/26/2009, -0/+1I can't see the US breaking up any time soon. It was not allowed to happen in the 1860s, and things were a LOT messier leading up to the civil war than they are now. And the Unites States is a very different creature than was the USSR.
- quaxon, on 10/26/2009, -1/+2I have lived in a third world country for much of my childhood. America definitely is a pathetic country in many ways, but you, and the many masses, are so caught up in the distractions provided that you remain completely ignorant to the pain and suffering we have been causing around the globe for the past century.
- Wargala, on 10/26/2009, -3/+4Uhhh...yeah. And you aren't why?
- MyKillK, on 10/28/2009, -0/+1Not even a day later and a major story has broken out regarding the CIA connection to the opium trade in Afghanistan. Apparently President Karzai's brother, who is a suspected drug lord, has been confirmed as being on the CIA's payroll for the last 8 years.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/28/world/asia/28int ... - js281, on 10/28/2009, -0/+1When will it end?
"It does not matter whether the war is actually happening, and, since no decisive victory is possible, it does not matter whether the war is going badly. All that is needed is that a state of war should exist."
"The consciousness of being at war, and therefore in danger, makes the handing-over of all power to a small caste seem the natural, unavoidable condition of survival."
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/orwell_g ...
/tin foil hat -
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