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- bongo, on 10/12/2007, -16/+259As the historian Stephen Henry Roberts (1901-71) once said: "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
That is a seriously awesome way of describing atheism. Dugg for that quote alone. - TriZz, on 10/12/2007, -9/+129I'm actually a Christian - and I believe that was a well-written and very informative article.
- as a Christian, I've only asked to be accepted for my beliefs as I accept you for yours...
- I can now further accept your beliefs having a better understanding of them.
Kudos. - tiochorizo, on 10/12/2007, -14/+122A well done piece that explains the basics of Atheism. Sometimes it takes me hours to explain these basics to my religious friends and family.
- killerofkiller, on 10/12/2007, -17/+88Happy Jesus day everyone! i cant wait till easter to see when jesus awakes. if he see's his shadow we'll have another 2000 years of guilt and false hope.
- Idealistic, on 10/12/2007, -8/+68@AXNJAXN
"It is possible to come to a Christian faith out of logic."
Wrong, wrong, wrong. Here is logic -X- and wayyyyyyyyyy over here -----------------> -X- is faith. They don't include each other. You can get to a certain point with faith using logic, but at some point it must break down. To logically come to a conclusion you must use deductive reasoning to follow a path setup upon facts. Since the Idea of God and his existence is not a fact, you cannot arrive at the conclusion that God exists in any logical manner. Thats not to say that its wrong to believe in God, or that anyone who does is somehow dumber, its just saying that you cannot use logic to explain god.
It even says in the bible something along the lines that the feeble mind of man cannot hope to understand God. This is where many people make their mistake. Using logical arguments, a person cannot prove the existence of God, to himself or anyone else. If you believe in him you are not using logic to come to that decision. Even if it makes all the sense in the world to you, that does not mean its logical. Often when something makes sense its because there is logic to back it up, but not always.
The confusion comes,as far as i can figure, from belief in the Bible. To a Christian, the Bible is as good as any science text book. They hold the story's and ideas in this book to be absolute fact. Thus they believe that they can base a logical argument off of it, but you must realize that an atheist does not believe this, just as you don't believe that the Koran is fact. In actuality, it takes faith to even believe in the Bible and thus, faith in the bible is not logical and it cannot be used as a base for a factual argument.
There is nothing wrong with the fact that religion is not logical, there is something wrong with thinking that it is. The sooner everyone figures this out, the sooner i can have a conversation with my family,or anyone, without wanted to gouge my eyes out. Sorry, this topic is just a pet peeve of mine. - Junkyarddawg, on 10/12/2007, -1/+58"We do not get our morality from religion."
In my opinion, the above sentence is at once the most important and the least known of all in that article.
We really do not get our morality from religion. - jiminoc, on 10/12/2007, -15/+72yes, christians have nothing but love in their hearts. HAHAHAHAHA dumb ass
- JayD16, on 10/12/2007, -13/+61@AXNJAXN
You missed the point of the quote entirely. It doesn't matter what the Bible says...You don't listen to the Koran for whatever reason. (My guess: Bible got there first)
What its saying is "Why should I listen to the Bible when you don't listen to the Koran." - ICSU, on 10/12/2007, -3/+46Must be an American thing. I've never heard about these myths here in Europe.
Recent Eurobarometer from December (http://ec.europa.eu/public_opinion/archives/eb/eb66/eb66_en.htm):
Personal values of Europeans:
Peace ..52%; Respect for human life .. 43%; Human rights .. 41%; Democracy .. 24%; Individual freedom .. 22%; Tolerance .. 19%, etc.
Religion .. 7%
Good job, Europeans. - mont1ff, on 10/12/2007, -10/+51I believe that most myths and bad feelings about atheism are due to the name; Atheism.
If only there was a name change.
ex.
Estate Tax - Death Tax
Global Warmer - Climate Change
Maybe if Atheists had a cute name more people wouldn't be prejudice to us. - haggie, on 10/12/2007, -4/+43Yes, as an atheist I declare a jihad against your religion-filled lives. If that doesn't work, I'm going to start an Inquisition...
- killerofkiller, on 10/12/2007, -14/+49I agree.. there was an author on the colbert report that explained it this way, he told colbert, "You do not belie in the Ancient Egyptian Gods, the Ancient Greek goods, Budah, and all the Hindu gods. you are an atheist to them, I just take it one god further,
- Idealistic, on 10/12/2007, -3/+36@Jamend
"No actually they do. Believing that life has meaning implies that someone created it with intention..."
Im an atheist, and i find meaning everywhere. Relationships are a large contributor, i get a great feeling of being meaningful from my job, when i am doing something i enjoy, the list goes on. There is really no way for me to completely tell you how wrong, ignorant, and arrogant your statement is. I hope you dont actually believe what you are saying, because i would have trouble wrapping my mind around that level of ignorance, so im just going to pretend you were being facetious. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -9/+41Don't Digg this dumb ***** up, it was in fact not sarcasm. She's a religious zealot who goes around preaching of how persecuted christians are. Just block the moron and move along =
- jiminoc, on 10/12/2007, -13/+38nothing scares me more in life than religious freaks. People will justify anything in the name of their "god"
when we start over Earth 2.0 on mars hopefully religion will be left here. - revolvingcur, on 10/12/2007, -5/+30So, dax, you find it plausible to believe in fairies, unicorns, and sock-pilfering gnomes? If so, digg me down, but really, there are many things we reject without complete evidence, because we find them unlikely based on what knowledge we do have.
Failure to believe something (or, equivalently in this case, believing in the falsehood of something) does not preclude willingness to be proven wrong. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -16/+40@ andyrobo60
Hitler was very very christian. - rockintom99, on 10/12/2007, -1/+24I think that is a pretty ignorant, intolerant, and hateful comment. Irony?
- SEMW, on 10/12/2007, -7/+29> No actually they do. Believing that life has meaning implies that someone created it with intention...
Well, It's nice that you've asserted that as a fact, but it's not; it's your personal belief. A lot of people would disagree with you. It's certainly not something that all, or even most, atheists believe. That is, in fact, the reason that this article included it in a list of myths about atheism! - mugenkeiji, on 10/12/2007, -6/+24Dugg for a cogent rebuttal of the sort of childish and disingenuous (or perhaps just sincere and completely illogical and retarded) attacks that the religious make.
- teamgwho, on 10/12/2007, -1/+19why not?
- AnteChronos, on 10/12/2007, -0/+18"I don't think they are immoral, intolerant and hate filled. I know they are."
There was this great metaphor denouncing the criticizing of others. Something about motes and beams in eyes. Now where did I read that again . . . ? - Waldoze, on 10/12/2007, -2/+19Amazingly well written short answers to some common misconceptions, a good read for Atheists and Theists alike!
- tim04, on 10/12/2007, -18/+35So somehow Atheists are the bad guys now just because they would rather LIVE their life instead of spending it believing in some random organized religion and following the "rules" of said religion. "Intolerant"? I wonder who lynched African Americans in the U.S. on "Holy" Crosses, oh right! CHRISTIAN white supremacists. Look at how "tolerant" right wing Christians are even today; you see them on TV (FOX "News") regarding Muslims, Mexicans, or basically anyone not "white". "Immoral"? When has killing in the name of ANY God become moral? Look at the bloody religious struggles going on in Africa between Christians and Muslims. Look at the violence surrounding Jewish Israel right now. Look at how Muslim terrorists have changed the face of the 21st Century. The only religion that I can think of that hasn't caused any distress, bloodshed, or violence is probably Buddhism, only because their religious principles strictly forbids violence. Now tell me, who do you think are the bad guys?
- doublebackslash, on 10/12/2007, -1/+17@jamend
No... Meaning or purpose is not given to an object or thing by its creator. Everything, every thought, every object, everything that we have a name for, and everything that we do not, has meaning only so much as it is given. The words, "In that book, which is my memory, on the first page, of the first chapter, which is the night I first met you, are written the words, "Here begins a new life."" mean something to me, in a very real and deep way. They force me to recall an astounding number of things, and have an immense emotional impact on me. That is all me. The author of those words did not give them that meaning, my life, my experience, my mind gave them the meaning that they hold. For you those words may mean nothing, meaning is very personal. Life has meaning because we give it meaning. Nothing can have meaning if it is not given to it.
Others give my life meaning, though them I feel that I'm important in some way. I know that through them I will live on, and I hope to leave my own mark on this world that will not soon be forgotten.
Life means so much, don't try to take that away from others simply because of what they think Taking away the humanity of another person is one of the paths to hate. - pushmouse, on 10/12/2007, -1/+17@mozi470
Did you ever stop to imagine that they got their morality from their humanity and not their religion? Being human is one thing they all have in common. Morality does not require a religion. I don't need religion to know when someone is being cruel. - OpCzar, on 10/12/2007, -2/+18Atheists aren't an organized group so it's kind of difficult to believe that none of these myths apply to a particular person that happens to not believe in god. Atheism is not a religion, so don't treat it as one.
- aratika, on 10/12/2007, -3/+17I've known a few athiests that later found religion.
Before religion they were intolerant *****.
After religion they were intolerant *****. - Democritus2, on 10/12/2007, -4/+18Anybody else notice us Atheists (atheist/agnostic myself), are starting to get some air time.
Seems more and more of us are coming out of the closet. I think it may become trendy for a while. - vhold, on 10/12/2007, -4/+16"So he's representing the whole Atheist community when it's just one person on Digg?"
Are you ok with this article and its summary, which also clumps atheists together, just under a positive light?
"Kindof like how all black people steal cars"
Kind of like how asians are good at math.. - andyrobo60, on 10/12/2007, -13/+25"2) Atheism is responsible for the greatest crimes in human history.
People of faith often claim that the crimes of Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot were the inevitable product of unbelief. "
I cant see how Hitler's crimes could be a product of unbelief. One of Hitler's most famous crimes is killing jews. If Hitler was an atheist then why would be single out jews. All the times in history I can think of when one group killed people from one particular religion, it was because that was the 'wish' of their god. - gardnert1, on 10/12/2007, -6/+17Christmas isnt and has never been about Jesus. The day was picked to be Jesus' birthday because it was already widely celebrated throughout Europe, usually as an excuse to brighten up the terrible winter season. It was celebrated as a secular holiday much like a combination of mardi gras and holloween up until a couple centuries ago. Only then did people and churches start lumping the the secular celebration to the birth of Jesus, who probably never even existed. Ironically enough Im being forced to go to Catholic mas in the morning by my parents.... They just never let go.
- sparkalex, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13Being an English guy living/working in the US I am shocked at how the US has all this internal fighting on religion. I find it so frustrating!
I never even heard of things like evolution being disputed before I moved here!!
Its like the US is stuck in an infinite loop of FUD when what people should be doing is living and let live. - Jugalator, on 10/12/2007, -4/+14"Well, who needs to imagine it when we have you right here.."
So he's representing the whole Atheist community when it's just one person on Digg? Better tell me why he is. People all have wildly varying ideas, and generalizations can be dangerous. This is why I can be tolerant of e.g. Christians although I occasionally see "freaks" on forums, or muslims although there are some noteworthy practicers of Islam that act like, well, jerks, and so on.
By the way, I'm not even sure jiminoc spoke of all religious people when he said "religious freaks"; that sounded like a subset to me. - LinuxGalore, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12I always find it amazing that one has to be religious to be nice. Just look at all those atheist suicide bombers or the atheists who think its perfectly o.k to murder anyone who doesn't follow my belief system.
- drbroccoli, on 10/12/2007, -6/+16You call us intolerant? A mirror. Look in it.
- rockintom99, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12Then who is typing this sentence? God?
- mugenkeiji, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10There is only one definition of the term. The Greek prefix a- is a prefix of negation, while theism is belief in a deity or deities (monotheism and pantheism, respectively). Thus the term 'atheism' denotes a lack of belief in a deity or deities. It does not necessarily denote an active denial of a deity. Similarly, gnostic pertains to cognition or knowledge. Thus the term 'agnostic' denotes a lack of knowledge, or perhaps an impossibility of knowledge.
Neither word assumes the meaning you attribute to it. I don't give a ***** what the ignorant popular meaning is, or what an American dictionary says, as it is apparently the practice of American dictionaries to record idiotic popular usage rather than trying to educate their readers or maintain some semblance of consistency with etymology.
Your semantic distinction is incorrect and unfounded. Nevertheless, taking the point that you make: in strictness, atheists should not proclaim 'there is no god', as it is not a provable proposition. Atheists should instead proclaim 'there is no evidence upon which I can conclude or infer that a deity or deities exist', and, as a practical matter, dismiss the hypothesis for want of evidence. - Toast1185, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10@Mozi
RTFA. The statement is saying that we are not amoral begins going through life that are tamed by religion.
"If a person doesn't already understand that cruelty is wrong, he won't discover this by reading the Bible or the Koran"
By your logic civilized society would have never formed, because people would have never tolerated each other long enough to develop a community, a language etc... They would instead spend this time killing each other because their neighbor had something shiny they wanted. I am borrowing this argument from Dawkins, but it basically goes along the lines of morality being a genetically favorable trait passed down to encourage the growth of communities, and thus increase the chances of survival for said people.
And naturally the more flippant response. Crusades, Inquisitions, Witch Hunts... the morality runneth over - Urusai, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Wrong. Atheism isn't a denial of theism, it's a lack of theism. There's no need to deny what isn't necessary; thank you, William of Ockham.
- Taorluath, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9basically what most people don't understand, is that most people are *****, whether they're atheists or theists.
- goodoldharris, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10"... If saying he wants to live in a world without religious people isn't "Opposed to the inclusion of those different from oneself...." then I don't know what is."
Your definition is fine. jiminoc said "when we start over Earth 2.0 on mars hopefully religion will be left here." This statement is clearly wishing for future where humanity leaves religion behind. It's not based on reality at all. The only thing you're being excluded from is an imaginary future utopia in the commenter's mind. If you feel excluded because of this kind of statement, you're hyper-sensitive. Since the situation is completely imaginary, nobody is being excluded from anything.
Get back to me when atheists start trying to ban the bible or prevent you from attending church. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8"and if you haven't read it, by all means go and get it"
Are you suggesting I leave my chair and go away from the intrawebs? Blasphemy!
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=check_download&ufid=2A3A6FFB28373B39&key=345a8c1be76ddfdce8dd564ec5230e63254adb2d
Just download the eBook :) - Democritus2, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11No use for Jesus either. I do not need a god-head to tell me what is moral and just.
He still bought into the whole heaven/hell thing and propagated it.
Besides, Jesus had a Messiah Complex. - scooper86, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Americans are silly
- greatcaffeine, on 10/12/2007, -5/+13Yeah, you're right... and it's really a testament to how brainwashed most religious people are.
- 5hop4orce, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9#1 came up in conversation just last month. A Christian said to me, "I've never met an Atheist who has hope." My response was, "You haven't met many Atheists!" Over the next couple of days, I kept thinking of more responses. "You haven't met Raymond Kurzweil." "You don't know what hope means." I finally settled on something very similar to: "On the contrary, religious people often worry that life is meaningless and imagine that it can only be redeemed by the promise of eternal happiness beyond the grave." Christians are the most hopeless people on the planet. They believe the world is so hopeless that Jesus has to come down from Heaven and destroy it. That's not hopeful--that's suicidal.
- furatail, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7I grew up in Bible Belt Oklahoma and fellow classmates actually thought atheism was a Satan following. Whenever I told them I was atheist they laughed but said, "You shouldn't joke like that." I'm still pretty sure even after a long discussion they still think I'm a christian just out for a good laugh by jokingly calling myself atheist, (Satan worshiper).
Lucky for me I lack a social life, so I don't have to hide my atheism as I don't have anything to loose. Well, as long as my family never finds out.
I have been commented on how nice of a person I am even though I am atheist. I guess an atheist with morals is a little hard to believe in this place. - revolvingcur, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7I don't believe this is what the author actually does. The fact is that there is a (perhaps fuzzy) group of individuals termed "atheists" about whom the refuted characterizations are often made.
- SEMW, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7> Atheism has no answer for this; it provides no alternative... Atheism just leaves us hanging. I say, no thanks!
So atheism is bad because it *isn't* a belief system? I think most people would disagree with you -- the *whole point* of atheism is that it isn't a belief system; it doesn't require blind faith in anything that can never be proved or disproved, etc. It's just a lack of belief. It's not intended to 'fill the gap', it just clears it. Personally, I find the gap perfectly adequately filled by a combination modern Physics and human Philosophy, but that's up to you; atheism doesn't specify anything. -
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