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Jesus Camp - Full Movie on Google Video watch!

video.google.com — Watch the complete movie of Jesus Camp, the controversial documentary that follows an evangelical Christian summer camp for children to learn and practice their "prophetic gifts" and prepare to "take back America for Christ."

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  • robert314, on 10/12/2007, -32/+107Disturbing to see how messed up in the head some of these Chrstians are... Let's hope they never get into power
    • berfmurret, on 10/12/2007, -23/+154little late for that homie.
    • xutopia, on 10/12/2007, -35/+99Dude.... did you ever take a look at who your president was?
    • djcgmcse, on 10/12/2007, -15/+160This movie beats out SAW 3 as scariest movie of the year.
    • chris9902, on 10/12/2007, -14/+45The lady even says that Bush bought credibility to their movement.
    • incognit0, on 10/12/2007, -27/+11@djcgmcse

      Considering how terrible Saw 3 was it's not much of a challenge...
    • ChemEng, on 10/12/2007, -39/+11Here we go again...

      How many times can this movie make the frontpage???
    • billlyboobs34, on 10/12/2007, -20/+40Apparently not enough times to convince people that organized religion is the devil.
    • Intangir, on 10/12/2007, -15/+43bush isnt a good christian, he only claims to be to manipulate the masses
    • merr, on 10/12/2007, -17/+68Digg: Where you can read sweeping generalizations about Christians based on a few crazy people.

      Actually, you can probably replace "Christians" in that sentence with just about any organized group and the statement would remain true.
    • acff, on 10/12/2007, -16/+7that first woman giving a speech to the children should have lost all credibility to everyone there when she mentioned "fat" and "fasting"

      or maybe when she mentioned "god" or "enemies"
    • rarkai, on 10/12/2007, -32/+87NOT ALL CHRISTIANS ARE LIKE THIS.

      I am getting sick of people generalizing the worst case for the whole. Not all Christians like G.W.B. and think he should run the world. Not all Christians are republicans. Not all Christians are against science. Not all Christians are racist extremists.

      You just have a loud group of people who are idiots and use it for their own agenda instead of just being loving people. These people tend to get on the news faster than normal people.
    • HateStation, on 10/12/2007, -27/+14Awesome, a Christian terrorist group's home video.

      Maybe they will put themselves to good use and suicide bomb structures in the Middle East to combat the religious fanatics suicide bombing us...

      ...it's probably just wishful thinking on my part though.
    • ICSU, on 10/12/2007, -18/+17@Intangir
      Flashnews, religions have been created to manipulate and control masses. Jesus as a character was so misused that if his divine version was real, he would've smitten the Church centuries ago.
      I can somewhat understand why there are Muslim fanatics coming from poor countries with poor education systems that are often occupied by foreign forces. But fanatics (Christians, Scientologists, etc.) living in rich countries are the real morons.
    • akaNerd, on 10/12/2007, -3/+19I'm just relieved that global warming doesn't exist! I suppose everyone's entitled to believe what they want. I myself believe that stop signs don't exist, and that everyone who does is an uninformed moron. (disgusted sarcasm). .

      I hope this is sensationalized...it can't really be that bad, can it?
    • gcauthon, on 10/12/2007, -2/+25@rarkai

      http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/US/P/00/epolls.0.html

      Not all, but most. Protestant Christians who attend church weekly favored Bush over Kerry by 70% to 29%.
    • sockpuppets, on 10/12/2007, -4/+14I knew pillow pants was real.
    • GruntboyX, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11If this video means i can call all Christians crazy wackos then i can look at terrorists and call all Muslims the same. Thats the disturbing standard we are setting.
    • cazabam, on 10/12/2007, -6/+18"Either they are like this or they support people like this. By not condemning these nutballs, by not marginalizing the Pat Robertsons and Jerry Falwells of your so-called faith, you are as bad as they are."

      I'm pretty sure that he was condemning their behaviour in the very comment you responded to ...

      "Two of them, the Atlanta Olympics bombins and the OK. City Bombing were carried out by CHRISTIAN terrorists whose hate was fueled by the silent tacit approval of their extremist views by the Christian majority in this country."

      Did you hear the wider Christian church call out in support or condemnation for the actions of these individuals? You seem to have forgotten to mention that.

      "Let's be honest for once, shall we? Your extreme views that you are the "chosen people" of god leave little room for compassion or empathy with anyone who does not share your particular imaginary friend."

      I think you're thinking of the Jews. The thing about Christianity is that it's followers (at least, the relatively sane ones) believe that it's supposed to be the religion for anybody. Other than some very dangerous cults derived from Christianity, the message is that it is a _good_ thing not to isolate and separate.
    • DigDugDigger, on 10/12/2007, -2/+33A Fair Film.

      Every time a Muslim does something wrong their religion is always mentioned with the crime on the news. When a Christian kills her kids because God told her so or blows up an abortion clinic, religion isn't specified 9 times out of 10. It's about time the Christians feel what its like to have a small part of your religion picked apart in the media.

      Right? Maybe not. Fair? Yes.
    • 955701, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5@rarkai

      Perhaps not all Christians are power hungry underlings in denial, but he didn't get more than 50% of the voting population behind him without all them "true Christians".

      You cannot hide behind the fact that any group which attempts to make any claim to unity - i.e., vote democat, vote for Christ, Muslims rule, Jews are the chosen ones - bears the responsibility of the worst of its ranks. If you don't agree with what Bush says yet let him wave the Christian standard, the Christian right should be the one to push him out of office, not the rest of us who don't subscribe to the religion or the zealotry. But they won't. Why? Because they benefit from the power!

      You cannot just claim credit if he is a good president and distance yourself if he isn't. The Christians need to bear the responsibility for putting this warmonger into power.






    • 955701, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6@Gruntboy

      Merely harboring evil in the ranks of your religion is enough to cast a shadow of blame on the religion itself. Or more generally, there exists truth in the following statement.

      If you create or belong to a group, and members of that group are abusing it's power to effect other groups of people, it is the groups moral obligation to eject the abuser and right the transgressions.

      The black community should spearhead the front against urban gangs.
      White America should shun those among it who prop up segregation.
      Chistians should not harbor intolerance within their ranks.
      Muslims should not perpetuate martyrdom.

      The reason is no-one else has the power to stop something your group produces. The only solution is to stop the production, plug the fountain.


    • etruscan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9That woman is dangerous - and I feel sorry for the kids, who are being poisoned, lied to, and are loosing their freedom of choice thanks to people like this. Religious beliefs should be chosen freely, not forced upon you. These kids are doomed, and will be forever lost thanks to this garbage.

      I didn't realize how much of an epidemic this way until I saw Jesus Camp. The movie should be discussed, analyzed, and shown everywhere.
    • rderveloy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@955701:
      "Christians should not harbor intolerance within their ranks."

      I think that this statement perfectly identifies the core problem with this issue: Christians being intolerant to the intolerant.

      A bit hypocritical don't you think? Christianity is based on tolerance, forgiveness and community, not hatred and isolation.

      Being intolerant towards extremists only further isolates them from the center, thus furthering their cause and only serves to reinforce their belief that they are right. If you want extremists to be grounded towards the center, you have to reel them back in and show/teach them why they're wrong and not shut them out.

      Isolation only serves to cause the paranoia, hatred, and mistrust to fester and feed upon itself as the extremists gather and congeal. This doesn't just apply to Christianity, Islam, or any other religion, this is basic human psychology. Misery, as they say, loves company.
    • worthawholebean, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16It has been taken off Google Video; it is here, too.

      http://www.dailymotion.com/visited/search/jesus%20camp/video/xqtjw_jesus-camp
    • sancho, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1@955701:
      "If you create or belong to a group, and members of that group are abusing it's power to effect other groups of people, it is the groups moral obligation to eject the abuser and right the transgressions."

      You act like all of Christianity has weekly meetings or something.

      Anyone can call himself a Christian. There is no way to "eject the abuser" from Christianity. This is the problem with grouping people (in general)--90% of the group may not condone the behavior, but there's no way to stop it. I'm not going to stop calling myself a Christian just because some idiot bombs an abortion clinic in the name of Christianity. They may claim to be a Christian, but they do not follow the beliefs of the Christian faith, nor do they (apparently) share my beliefs. But they are the ones in the wrong.

      This is the same thing you see with Muslims. Most scholars will read the Koran and understand that, for the most part, it preaches peace. The terrorists claim to be Muslim, but they don't follow the tenets spelled out in the Koran, and certainly they do not follow the spirit of the religion.

      Just about every group has its wackos. In organized clubs, you can kick those people out. In something ill-defined like religion, that is simply not possible.

      And for the record, I condemn acts of violence, regardless of the perpetrator's religion, ethnicity, nationality, or other group affiliation.
    • zybch, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5@sancho - "You act like all of Christianity has weekly meetings or something."

      Um, church??
    • spliffy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4here guys, both the google and daily motion videos are gone.

      http://thepiratebay.org/tor/3556960/Jesus_Camp_(2006)_-_on_evangelical_christians_in_USA

      you know this ones not going to be taken down and it's quite well seeded at the moment.
    • sancho, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0It was intended to be a little bit of a joke, but seriously, ALL of Christianity does not get together on Sundays for church. That would require one pretty big church, and a lot of travel for a lot of people.
  • AltReality, on 10/12/2007, -54/+13Yet check out the original thread about James Kim, and how many people said they were praying for him and his family. I was shocked with how ordinarily this site is full of people bashing anything to do with God and Faith.

    -AltReality
    • aresef, on 10/12/2007, -14/+73People here don't bash faith. We bash people who use faith to divide the country, incite violence, or just spout *****.
    • VeryAngryJim, on 10/12/2007, -9/+40Just because you disagree with someone's faith doesn't mean you can't respect it. I'm a flat out atheist and always have been, but if someone of faith requests that I pray for them in a time of need I'm not offended I just do it, it definitely doesn't hurt me to do so.
    • cliffzdude, on 10/12/2007, -38/+14"People here don't bash faith. We bash people who use faith to divide the country, incite violence, or just spout *****."

      *****.
    • bmauter, on 10/12/2007, -9/+31@aresef
      I appreciate that sentiment. In the same way, I do not bash people who have different (or no) faith than me.

      However, I too believe there's a lot of bashing my faith on digg. See posts by awm4, mattman59 (troll, btw), autotoxic, elbxmatatan and omglolzhaha for examples.

      Just because I'm a Christian doesn't mean I'm perfect. It just means I try to live my life by the example set forth by Jesus Christ.
    • elfguy, on 10/12/2007, -17/+13Faith is a personal thing. Every time you forget that, and use it to try to convert, incite violence, try to change laws, it gives me the right to bash you. Go practice your faith by yourself and leave the rest of us out of it.
    • billlyboobs34, on 10/12/2007, -29/+12uhh I bash faith... it's a load of horse ***** and I feel sorry for anyone brainwashed enough to believe it. I only do my part in trying to pull them back to reality.
    • woody56292, on 10/12/2007, -16/+19why must we always have arguments about God?
    • billlyboobs34, on 10/12/2007, -15/+11"about god"

      You mean to say "concerning the existence of a god"
    • vandread, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13@elfguy

      So every time a person says they do something for faith you have the right to bash everyone for it? So every time a mexican does something illegal, I should bash all mexicans because that one did something illegal? Every time a black person joins a gang, I should bash all black people for being gang bangers? Every time a white person snorts coke, I should bash all white people for snorting coke?

      Don't bash religion because some people use it as an excuse. Those people are extremists and aren't truly Christians. They twist the words to suit their needs. Don't take it out on the people who actually do follow faith and try to live the way the bible says. If you want to bash a religion, don't look at the people who claim to be a part of it, look at the doctrine that it teaches. Look at the values the doctrine is supposed to instill. If you have a problem with that, then bash it, but don't just bash it because of some extremists, that's just plain ignorant.
    • bmauter, on 10/12/2007, -5/+13@elfguy
      Faith, for Catholics, is a communal thing, not just a personal thing.

      @billyboobs34
      Ha, bashing someone is a great way to convince them to switch sides.

      -Brian
    • billlyboobs34, on 10/12/2007, -11/+11vandread... maybe you are not familiar with the bible, but it is a very violent and harmful document. Children get better values from Aesop's Fables.

      bmauter: it simply lets them know how unfamiliar they are with their own bible and gets them to question and defend their faith... I don't want them to switch I want them to ask questions about what they blindly believe!
    • Zaphod2016, on 10/12/2007, -9/+1@woody

      Because we have free will, and that is what creatures with free will do. If God doesn't like it, he wouldn't have given us free will. That, or God is an invention of liberal media to make you buy unnecessary powders and pastes. Either way, bickering is clearly part of natural order.
    • vandread, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4@billlyboobs34

      Should we stop reading history books because they talk about wars and violence? Should we stop watching the news because it talks about the war in Iraq and people blowing themselves up? Should we abolish the police force because they might use violent methods to bring criminals to justice? Violence exists in this world and always has. We should not hide from it, especially if its historical. We should look at it, analyze it and learn from it.
    • TheWedge, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6@vandread:

      History books don't INCITE violence though, I think that was billyboobs' point.
    • Providence, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@AltReality:

      You're getting a digg down from me for posting your name after your comment. We already know your name, don't post it twice.
    • RunnyBabbit, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@billyboobs

      You're not helping your cause. GTFO.
    • endtropy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"...I'm a flat out atheist and always have been, but if someone of faith requests that I pray for them in a time of need I'm not offended I just do it, it definitely doesn't hurt me to do so."

      Please don't think me belligerent, but simply out of curiosity; to whom do you pray in such cases?
  • emomakesmecry, on 10/12/2007, -17/+41it's things like this that totally disgust me about christianity
    • steeel2, on 10/12/2007, -13/+55Irrational faith of any kind does it for me.
    • akira117, on 10/12/2007, -8/+24Religious extremist in general scare me.....
    • haxorjoe, on 10/12/2007, -7/+27I hate all these crazy Christians. They make us all look like that. Trust me, we're all not like that! We're normal people that curse, and sin, and lie.
    • converge, on 10/12/2007, -19/+7like we need another reason to be disgusted about christianity?
    • ahknight, on 10/12/2007, -10/+2You mean highly evangelical, frothing-mouth Protestants.

      Please don't lump Catholics into that mess. Thanks.
    • billlyboobs34, on 10/12/2007, -7/+1That's right you almost never hear about Catholics pulling this ***** or going door to door to spread their belief. Protestants broke away from the church and are all going to hell so put that in your crack pipe and smoke it protestants.
    • Zaphod2016, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8ahknight-

      From anti-condom scare tactics to the molestation of alter boys, Catholics have plenty of blood on their hands too. However, there is still value in dogma when we are allowed to apply reason to it.

      Discouraging condom use in Africa is clearly unreasonable, it leads to more infections, more suffering.

      Demanding celebacy is clearly an unreasonable request- all humans crave sex, and denying this places children in danger.

      The funny thing is, I bet you would be hard pressed to find any passage of the bible discussing AIDS, or the need for priests to be celebate. These dogmatic inventions are politics of the lowest order, and serve only to hurt those involved.
    • NSMike, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9Ted Haggard at 1:08:48. That's pretty telling. Fabulous!
  • awm4, on 10/12/2007, -9/+47The lady speaking at 7 min. in should practice what she preaches.
    She could stand to miss a few meals.
    • klawz, on 10/12/2007, -6/+16Not to dilute what you said - and yes, I'm being somewhat of a smartass, but let it be knowng that missing meals will not help you lose weight (well for long) - when you miss a meal, your body goes into a starvation mode, and well, the next time you eat, your body will compensate for your "lack of food" and start to store more (as fat). You're better off eating 5-6 smaller meals per day and never missing one.
    • revansii, on 10/12/2007, -7/+2n/a
    • thespace, on 10/12/2007, -7/+2-delete
  • thespace, on 10/12/2007, -10/+32Movie was absolutely incredible, what an eye opener. This is the exact reason why there is a seperation of the church and state.
    • slackerbox, on 10/12/2007, -10/+22Well, an attempt at a separation. It doesn't always follow through.
    • thespace, on 10/12/2007, -7/+24anything is better than nothing my man. All of these churches preaching politics need to start paying taxes too. IRS should pull their tax exempt status immediately.
    • klawz, on 10/12/2007, -14/+3quote
      "This is the exact reason why there is a seperation of the church and state. "
      /quote

      >Why is it illegal then to marry a same sex partner? or illegal to have more than one Wife? And other such stuff you'll see controversial in the news. The "marriage" as seen by the state, should allow you (whatever your religion) to have the same benefits (matter it's same sex, same race, more than one; you get the idea). Does it come down to morals? Probably - and more than likely morals and religious belief of those who vote (notice I didn't say majority - it's true that the majority of people don't vote on stuff - mostly the ones that want it, or change - but those who don't vote seem to just stand by and whine about it - without taking action).
    • revansii, on 10/12/2007, -16/+18That so called separation of church and state is not what the world thinks it is. You can thank tha ACLU for saying otherwise. The phrase "separation of church and state" does not appear in the Constitution, but rather is derived from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson...waiting for the arguments now.

      The founding fathers in no way wanted the church out of the government. It was meant to keep the state out of the church. One thing to remember is that majority of the founding fathers were Pastors of church's and attending seminary, but of course the people of Digg will say this is also not true.

      As long as I've been with Digg (which is not very long) anything to do with bashing/disproving Christianity, conservatives, or Bill O'riley will make the front page in a heartbeat.

      Waiting to be dugged down and attacked in 3, 2, & 1
    • jackimhoffer, on 10/12/2007, -8/+21@revansii

      Many of the "founding fathers" were not Christians, but Deists. Do some research before you begin spouting ***** from your brainwashed, polluted mind.
    • revansii, on 10/12/2007, -14/+7@jackimhoffer

      I have! They were Protestants. Initiated by Martin Luther's 95 Theses during the sixteenth century.
    • klawz, on 10/12/2007, -7/+11@ jackimhoffer - before you spat off, maybe you should do some unbiased research of your own before critiziing others for not doing the same. Perhaps your right, perhaps your wrong, but I don't see there being any conclusion to what you said was fact, not at all. So quit spatting your "interpretation" as fact.

      From the Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism

      Deism in America
      Thomas PaineIn America, Enlightenment philosophy (which itself was heavily inspired by Deist ideals) played a major role in creating the principle of separation of Church and State, expressed in the religious freedom clauses of the First Amendment of the Constitution. Founding Fathers who were especially noted for being influenced by such philosophy include Cornelius Harnett, Gouverneur Morris, Hugh Williamson, James Wilson[27] and James Madison.[28] While all of these men were members of traditional Christian denominations (Hugh Williamson was a Presbyterian and the rest were Episcopalians) their political speeches show distinct deistic influence. Other notable Founding Fathers may have been more directly Deist. These include Ethan Allen[29], and Thomas Paine (who published The Age of Reason, a treatise that helped to popularize deism throughout America and Europe). Elihu Palmer (1764-1806) wrote the "Bible" of American deism in this Principles of Nature (1823), and attempted to organize deism by forming the "Deistical Society of New York."

      Currently (as of 2006) there is an ongoing controversy in the United States as to whether or not America was founded as a "Christian nation" based on Judeo-Christian ideals. This has spawned a subsidiary controversy over whether or not the Founding Fathers were Christians or Deists or something in between.[30]

      Particularly heated is the debate over the beliefs of Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, and George Washington, for all of whom the evidence is mixed.[31] [32]

    • jackimhoffer, on 10/12/2007, -6/+19So..how was I wrong? I simply said that many founding fathers were Deists. You helped to show that they were. I'm sorry if you have trouble following things like this.
    • thespace, on 10/12/2007, -5/+14aka, America was not founded on Christianity but based around principles of 'common morality'.
    • revansii, on 10/12/2007, -12/+9@thespace & jackimhoffer

      America was founded on judeo christian beliefs which would fall under Christianity. Perhaps some were Deists, but to say all is another thing. Majority were Christians and believed in the Bible.
      I'm the diggers will say that this is wrong information as well. "However, it is important to note that all of the Founding Fathers followed Christian doctrine for rules on how to conduct ones self, for it was so intertwined with the society. Benjamin Franklin probably explains it best when he, to paraphrase, said that although he is unsure of whether God exists or not, he felt it was better to believe in Christianity and the Christian God than not to, for the Christian teachings prevented moral anarchy. Thus, our nation was founded on Christian principles because the Founding Generation recognized the value in them to create a moral, virtuous society." http://www.foundingfathers.info/
    • jchasefinch, on 10/12/2007, -11/+6@jackimhoffer -

      insults don't add to your point. what they do is breed defensiveness and kill any sort of debate, along with your credibility.
    • typo180, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13@revansii

      I used to think the same way (that's what I was taught). It seems like a nice ideal because some of the best people you and I probably knew growing up were Christians. Unfortunately when you look at history - the situation is far from ideal. Read Thomas Hobbes' Leviathan or take a look at the Holy Roman Empire or the Catholic Church - you'll think again about that whole separation thing.

      Besides that - Jesus' message was decidedly separate from government. He called the church to bring about social justice and acceptance on their own, not pass the buck and certainly not to legislate morality. In fact he clearly says that the religious leaders of the time were placing too much of a burden on the people - requiring that they all follow their version of "god's law."

      Besides, if Biblical principles are really right for a nation, then politicians should be able to support those laws without using the Bible for evidence.

      Oh, and Bill O'Reilly's a douche.
    • thespace, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8@revansii - the majority were actually Freemasons, not Christians, this belief has two requirements, belief in a Supreme Being and in the immortality of the soul, everything else is up for debate. I've never read any history book where it stated the majority of the founding fathers were Christian or Judeo-Christian.
    • thespace, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3Also remember that America's real Christian roots started with the Pilgrims. Who sought out a new land where they were free from religious persecution.

      @ revansii - so true, Jesus' main beef was with the Roman church telling him what God/s he should believe in.
    • revansii, on 10/12/2007, -9/+3@typo

      Actually I didn't know any real Christians growing up nor was I raised Christian. I was raised with a Jewish background and didn't believe in organized religion or believe in Heaven or Hell. However that all changed 3 years ago when I accepted Christ as my savior and became a God fearing man and Bible Believer...oh yes I said it "God fearing man and Bible Believer".

      Sorry typo don't really care what you think of Bill O'Reilly. Not going to change my view of him and it's not going to affect his ratings nor his best selling books.

      Christ did separate himself from the government, but He did stand up against the sinner in the government. He tuned over table and made a stand within the temple when He saw it becoming a market place.

      One can state whatever they want regarding the founding fathers, but History speaks for itself. Look at history - "One nation under God, In God we Trust, many letters written by the found fathers regarding God and prayer, prayer in School, 10 Commandments in Court Houses, Praying with Bible, Opening sessions in prayer in Christ name."
    • thespace, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4@revansii - man I was totally with you right up to your last paragraph. Here's the deal, you don't think its a problem but everyone else does. Why is this? Cause you're not respecting my beliefs or anyone elses and I also don't want my child to think that Jesus Christ is the only solution in this world. Cause at some point me and you are gonna have some serious problems when you bring that Bible into my kids classroom and its gonna lead to some serious violence and violence or anything that leads to violence is no what Jesus taught you...

      Is it?
    • ejm508, on 10/12/2007, -0/+16Actually "under God" was added during the cold war
    • thespace, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1That's right, I'll get medieval on your ass, lol
    • typo180, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@revansii

      Apologies for the assumptions about your background, and the O'Reilly thing was just thrown is as sort of a joke.

      My main point still stands - yes Jesus stood up to some government officials, but it was in the area of them interfering with the people's practices. He never said that Christians should infiltrate the government and never called for the creation of a Christian state or a physical Kingdom of God.

      We should set some lines in the discussion of Church in state. I don't see anything wrong with politicians praying or displaying the 10 commandments in their office, what I have a problem with is policy being dictated by someone's interpretation of the Bible when not everyone agrees and when there's not other reason behind it. I'm also scared of people playing the religious card in order to spread FUD and control people.
    • revansii, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5@thespace

      I apologize if I came across as if I’m not respecting your beliefs. I may not agree with them, but you are entitled to them.

      Believe me I do not want to force anything down anyone’s throat and I will not force anyone to listen to what I believe. That’s not what Christ did and that is not what I will do. However, we’re not talking about forcing your child to read the Bible or pray. They have the option not to do that. However there are organizations out there that do not want to see a student pray in shcool, bring a Bible so school, or even write a paper regarding Christ and the Bible. Is that fair, is that right, is that what the founding fathers wanted?
    • revansii, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4@Typo

      Apology accepted & thank you. (First digger I have ever seen apologize). Jesus emphasis was not on infiltrating the government. When that happens it becomes legalistic and that’s what the Jews were doing at that time. However, when a nonbeliever is voted into a Government position we cannot be guaranteed that they will vote in a way Christ would. Not saying Christ would be a government official, but we as believers are to be Christ like and be holy for He is holy.
    • rderveloy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2"The founding fathers in no way wanted the church out of the government. It was meant to keep the state out of the church. One thing to remember is that majority of the founding fathers were Pastors of church's and attending seminary, but of course the people of Digg will say this is also not true."

      So when the Pilgrims landed in America, they didn't leave everything behind because of religious persecution, but rather they wanted to risk their lives on a perilous journey just for fun?

      I'm sorry, but please tell me, in what possible practical way can you have both the Christian church in the government without having the government interfere with religion, especially religions that are not Christian? You can't! The founding fathers weren't stupid and they had more more forethought than that since they knew that the new world was colonized by people escaping religious persecution from their government.

      Histroy has shown us time and again that governments in which religious belief and state aren't separated, one belief system will eventually influence the other to the point where someone who doesn't believe in the belief that influences the government will be discriminated against.

      How do I know this? The Romans did the exact same thing to the Christians way back in the day. Not only that, but Christians have had their fair share of blood too during the dark ages and the Spanish inquisition.

      Oh, and lest not forget Hitler's 3rd Reich, the sectarian violence in Iraq, and the ban of homosexual marriage in certain states within the US. The latter clearly discriminates against non-Christians by imposing, by it's very nature, a christian belief on whole populations.

      In nearly all examples of where one belief system was allowed to influence a government more than others, it has only led to human suffering.

      The only way to practically stave off unbalanced religious bias for as long as possible is to separate church and state. If the church and state are separate, they can't interfere or influence each other as easily as they could if they weren't separate.

      Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that it's wrong for lawmakers and representatives to use their beliefs as a basis for passing laws. I'm just saying that they need to be respectful, if not fearful, of other beliefs.
    • Loonacy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@klawz:
      "Currently (as of 2006) there is an ongoing controversy in the United States as to whether or not America was founded as a "Christian nation" based on Judeo-Christian ideals. This has spawned a subsidiary controversy over whether or not the Founding Fathers were Christians or Deists or something in between."

      Try reading the Treaty of Tripoli, Article 11, a treaty that had been unanimously approved of by the senate, and signed into law by President John Adams.
    • revansii, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1@rderveloy

      Stating that founding fathers were stupid is just ignorance and I have no time or desire to discuss anything with you.

      Stupid...if you do not like leave the United States.
  • Somnolent, on 10/12/2007, -7/+23This was a horribly, horribly depressing movie.
  • mattman59, on 10/12/2007, -31/+24All Christians are insane, they think a magical man lives in and sky and can hear your thoughts. That is ***** insane if you ask me.
    • converge, on 10/12/2007, -18/+7^^^ tr00f ^^^
    • woody56292, on 10/12/2007, -15/+8he doesn't live in the sky.....
      and as for being able to read our thoughts. that is because he is omnipresent ( everywhere at once )

      read up on quantum theory for proof of omnipresence.



      oh, and in the effort of cooperation and civility, can you please refrain from posting anything like that again?
    • typo180, on 10/12/2007, -7/+2really, n0n4m3? Couldn't have guessed...
  • datastorageguy, on 10/12/2007, -19/+31Another example of anti religious groups attempting to portray all Christians as crazies. I would hope that most people seeing this would not fall for that trap.

    The fact is that this is extremely rare and not accepted by true Christians. If anything, this video should show Christians how their own faith can be perverted.
    • jasper976, on 10/12/2007, -11/+19those christian crazies completely supported this documentary
    • jsls, on 10/12/2007, -9/+9you have got to be kidding me....and yes they are CRAZY!!!
    • thespace, on 10/12/2007, -10/+32Extremely rare? You see those mega churches? 20+% of the voting block, which is Evangelical, in America is pretty damn powerful. That's not small by any means.
    • Autotoxic, on 10/12/2007, -21/+11There should be laws against such stupidity..er... I uhh.. mean religion
    • Autotoxic, on 10/12/2007, -19/+18Wtf is it with you damn christians and calling yourself the "true" ones
    • datastorageguy, on 10/12/2007, -12/+13
      I am saying that an overwhelming majority of Christians are not like this whatsoever. Say what you will about disagreeing with the faith, that's perfectly fine and doesn't offend me and shouldn't anyone of my faith, but to say that all Christians are crazy as this video portrays is simply not true.
    • NeoPlatonist, on 10/12/2007, -7/+19I think that the majority of Christians, Muslims, etc are useful members of society and pretty much harmless. It's the minority of crazies that make them look bad. I am not religious but I do think that believing in a god can be beneficial to some people.
    • xutopia, on 10/12/2007, -9/+17How is this video showing all Christians as crazy?

      Stop the black or white, good or evil for a second because the real world doesn't function in binary (though religion seems to). There are shades of gray and there are also many other colors to choose from.

      This video does two things.

      1) it shows us that religion can be used as a tool to brainwash kids
      2) it shows us that lots of otherwise decent adults can be lead to believe that brainwashing kids is ok.

      It doesn't paint a picture of religion as being only extremist fundamentalist.
    • Nodren, on 10/12/2007, -6/+19the guy made a valid point. 99% of your evangelical christians(evangelical encompassing almost all christian denominations) do not believe this stuff. I am a christian, and flat out disagree, i goto a large church(several thousand members) and i'd be hard pressed to find even one or two who'd agree with the themes brought out by the video.

      just because its labeled christian doesnt mean everyone believes it.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations

      go ahead, read that. read about some denominations, if you find this "scary" then learn about it, you'll realize we arnt making this up.
    • woody56292, on 10/12/2007, -5/+3thank you Nodren, couldn't of said it better myself.
    • swaters, on 10/12/2007, -5/+5Christianity has a tradition of lying, killing and taking over governments. Millions have died and the progress of humanity set back centuries by these so-called followers of Christ and their "Armies."

      Anyone who even suggests that we should tolerate these terrorists is not paying attention. I would rather have a president who worships his socks or a tree than one who would allow Pat Robertson to stay out of jail.
    • datastorageguy, on 10/12/2007, -12/+6"Christianity has a tradition of lying, killing and taking over governments. Millions have died and the progress of humanity set back centuries by these so-called followers of Christ and their "Armies.""

      If you really want to rationalize and look at things this way, lets do so.

      Stalin
      Mao
      Pol Pot
      Hitler
      Kim Jong Il

      All athiests. All have killed on the order of 10 million or so people and subjected them to absolute horror. What do you say to this?
    • typo180, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@swaters

      To be fair - those cases have almost exclusively been motivated by political grabs for power, money, and land. It's fair to draw a line between well-meaning Christians and the corrupt government types.
    • Otto, on 10/12/2007, -5/+10@datastorageguy: Hitler was not an athiest. He was, in fact, Christian but eventually saw Christianity (and the church, to be specific) as a direct threat to his own power later in his life. However, he continued to believe in a higher power and in reincarnation (whether it be in this world or some other world).

      Source: Any History Book, Google, Reality.
    • datastorageguy, on 10/12/2007, -6/+6ummm ok

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_religious_beliefs

      "There are negative statements about Christianity reported by Hitler’s intimates, Goebbels, Speer, and Bormann.[10] Joseph Goebbels, for example, notes in a diary entry in 1939: "The Führer is deeply religious, but deeply anti-Christian. He regards Christianity as a symptom of decay.""


      You should probably try reading your refrences before citing them.
    • thespace, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5@datastorageguy - dude not even one of those guys were atheist.

      Religious fanaticism is the #1 reason for violence since the beginning of written human history. To blame this on atheism is like asinine.
    • Otto, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7Ummmm.. What? From your own quote:
      "The Führer is deeply religious..."
      That doesn't really reconcile with atheism, which is non-religious by definition.

      As for his Christianity, what part of my post did you not understand? 1939 was his "later life". He started out as a Christian in his early life.

      Perhaps you should read *and comprehend* your own sources before citing them.
    • thespace, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord." - Adolf Hitler
    • josh1413, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2@thespace
      His Lord I guarantee you wasn't Jesus Christ.
    • sievo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@josh1413,
      perhaps not, but every bit as non-existant
  • jonpotz, on 10/12/2007, -5/+35This movie is so scary.

    The part where the mom is teaching her home schooled boy through an informational video on creationism which showed a human riding on the back of a dinosaur!

    Or the part where the kid is talking about how crazy is it that scientists say we are made up of protoplasm then proclaims.."...whatever that is!".

    I am scared for the children whose parents subject them to this.
    • 2ndhonors, on 10/12/2007, -11/+11I personally think that all kids should be exposed to at least some forms of public schooling to be sure that they are exposed to all theories. I am by no means an Evangelical Christian. But I have cousins that are. They and their friends the kindest people that I have met. They care for everyone and love their neighbors. If our world could act more like them, in kindness and love at least, we would be in a much better world.
    • PoVRAZOR, on 10/12/2007, -9/+3This is terrible. I didn't think things were this bad. Suicide Christian Bombers... Jesus Christ!
    • billlyboobs34, on 10/12/2007, -5/+2You must not have heard of the tensions between catholics and protestants...
  • MAJORstrasser, on 10/12/2007, -6/+32Download it from Google while you can. Forgive me for the directions...but for the n00bs among us...You can either download the Google Video Player file, open it in a text editor, and copy/paste the gigantic URL into your browser to download the AVI file...or click the tinyurl below.

    http://tinyurl.com/y52lah
    • klawz, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9awesome, thanks
      (I think you're being dug down by idiots)
  • Jadix, on 10/12/2007, -6/+7Its the use of fear against these people that drives them to "insanity". They're not insane, they're afraid. Afraid of the devil, as ridiculous as it sounds, but its true. Fear is a very powerful emotion which can be easily used to control groups of people.
  • Waterispoison, on 10/12/2007, -8/+10@ datastorageguy
    Why is it that whenever people are caught doing wrong things in the name of Christianity others point out "Oh, he's not a REAL Chirstian, I am a real Christian!" That is something that is very confusing to me...
    • datastorageguy, on 10/12/2007, -5/+7Someone can be a Christian and still do what would be considered "wrong" by our faith. The issue is that even those who commit sin are loved and excepted (and not subjected to brainwashing, ostracism, stoning, whatever punishment you can think of)

      It isn't the people who do wrong that we call non-Christians, but (you would be surprised to learn) the people who force others to accept our faith, threaten with eternal punishment if they don't convert, and subject children to things seen in this video.

      I have said this many times posting here. True Christians love their neighbor regardless of their faith, class, or race and believe that they have been given the gift of an after life with God through the sacrifice of Christ. Sacrificing for others in this way is also what makes a true Christian. We also believe that forcing others to believe this is abhorrent; where in the Bible does it describe Christ as doing such things?
    • ICSU, on 10/12/2007, -6/+7see:
      radical Christians - not true Christians
      radical Muslims - true Muslims
      ..according to Christians
    • ostracize, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@ICSU
      Is that according to Christians or true Christians?
    • Valmorian, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3@datastorageguy:

      Luke 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

    • darthmdh, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3@Valmorian

      I see you too can read those athiest websites that take single verses completely out of context.

      Luke 19:11-28 (AMP)

      11Now as they were listening to these things, He proceeded to tell a parable, because He was approaching Jerusalem and because they thought that the kingdom of God was going to be brought to light and shown forth immediately.

      12He therefore said, A certain nobleman went into a distant country to obtain for himself a kingdom and then to return.

      13Calling ten of his [own] bond servants, he gave them ten minas [each equal to about one hundred days' wages or nearly twenty dollars] and said to them, [c]Buy and sell with these [d]while I go and then return.

      14But his citizens detested him and sent an embassy after him to say, We do not want this man to become ruler over us.

      15When he returned after having received the kingdom, he ordered these bond servants to whom he had given the money to be called to him, that he might know how much each one had made by [e]buying and selling.

      16The first one came before him, and he said, Lord, your mina has made ten [additional] minas.

      17And he said to him, Well done, excellent bond servant! Because you have been faithful and trustworthy in a very little [thing], you shall have authority over ten cities.

      18The second one also came and said, Lord, your mina has made five more minas.

      19And he said also to him, And you will take charge over five cities.

      20Then another came and said, Lord, here is your mina, which I have kept laid up in a [f]handkerchief.

      21For I was [constantly] afraid of you, because you are a stern (hard, severe) man; you pick up what you did not lay down, and you reap what you did not sow.

      22He said to the servant, I will judge and condemn you out of your own mouth, you wicked slave! You knew [did you] that I was a stern (hard, severe) man, picking up what I did not lay down, and reaping what I did not sow?

      23Then why did you not put my money in a bank, so that on my return, I might have collected it with interest?

      24And he said to the bystanders, Take the mina away from him and give it to him who has the ten minas.

      25And they said to him, Lord, he has ten minas [already]!

      26And [said Jesus,] I tell you that to everyone who gets and has will more be given, but from the man who does not get and does not have, even what he has will be taken away.

      27[The indignant king ended by saying] But as for these enemies of mine who did not want me to reign over them--bring them here and [g]slaughter them in my presence!

      28And after saying these things, Jesus went on ahead of them, going up to Jerusalem.

    • Valmorian, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0There's nothing out of context there. That Jesus was talking in a parable doesn't mean he wasn't inferring the same should be done with respect to himself. Indeed, it would suggest that he DOES.
  • elbxmatatan, on 10/12/2007, -19/+9christianity is the only cult that worked.
  • omglolzhaha, on 10/12/2007, -10/+4in the old testament, harry potter wouldve been put to death
    random child: Amen!
    :applause:
  • adent1066, on 10/12/2007, -11/+17Not quite right to categorize all Christians as insane. Fringe groups are always wackos.
    There are plenty of rational, logical, and reasonable Christians.




    • night141, on 10/12/2007, -15/+16Unfortunately the average digger only cares to notice the stories that portray Christians as wackos, and then use that story to say "SEE!!! CHRISTIANS ARE CRAZEE LOL"
    • jonpotz, on 10/12/2007, -13/+8They aren't ALL crazy, but almost all delusional.

      The evangelicals portrayed in this video however are delusional and crazy.
    • xutopia, on 10/12/2007, -7/+3Well I don't think you are being reasonable nor rational. This video shows a group of self-professed fundamentalists brainwash some kids into thinking like them. Are all Christians a self-professed fundamentalist?
    • guice, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8"There are plenty of rational, logical, and reasonable Christians."

      True. Too bad, however, these rational, logical and reasonable Christians aren't doing anything to stop the wackos.

      Until they do, Christianity, in general, will continue to fall.
  • warmonger48, on 10/12/2007, -4/+18Methinks she needs to fast for 40 days....
    • xutopia, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8Easier to ask kids to do it for her.
  • gregmills, on 10/12/2007, -6/+12I wonder how many people commenting on the movie and it's portrayal of Christians have watched anything more than the trailer. This is the second DIGG link to the full version so how about watching it? The video is not as provocative as it is being represented. Just like the scandalous "Left Behind" video game, this is a lot of hype about nothing.

    This stuff gets attention not because of what it is, but because of what people want it to be.
    • woody56292, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1yeah once I actually watched it, it wasn't as bad as I thought.
      They are misguided, but I still think they are Christians.
    • sibhod, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I couldn't say. I started watching while eating dinner and had to turn it off because it was making me sick.
  • thespace, on 10/12/2007, -5/+4WHO THREW THAT STONE!!!
    SHE DID! SHE DID! ..ehem.. he did.. he did..
  • jsls, on 10/12/2007, -6/+5Not quite right to categorize all Christians as insane. Fringe groups are always wackos.....so you would consider Evangelicals fringe???
  • t.toe, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11one thing that really bothered me about the trailer for this movie is that it fails to make a distinction between spiritual war and physical war. most Christians, I think, at least the non-psycho ones, don't plan on starting some massive physical war to kill the infidels, it's more a spiritual warfare thing, with prayer and such. and as far as Christians getting involved politically... well, I think that every person who lives in this country should get involved politically, psycho or not. it's our right as citizens.
    • geoboy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2The trailer fails to make the distinction? It's just a trailer! Now, have you watched the entire video? That'd be a different story.

      I like the way this documentary was presented. There was absolutely no narration. Only text subtitles presenting numbers and facts. Everything everyone said was in their own words. Yes, the way things are edited and the way music is used affects the mood greatly, but it's that way with practically every documentary ever made.

      So the film failed to mention the difference between physical and spirital war. So what? Isn't the difference blatantly obvious? Why do we need the filmakers explaining it to us? It's possible one of the evangelicals explained the difference and that ended up on the cutting room floor, but I have no idea. That's why it's good to get information from various sources.

      Anyway, this film does an excellent job of portraying what spiritual war is. And I find it pretty disturbing. In all war, there are two sides - the good guys and the bad guys. And when spiritual war is declared, they're not doing it just for fun. They're delcaring war because they want to win. They want their ideology to win and be adopted by everyone else. And they partly want to do this through government. They want the government enforcing their spiritual beliefs, and they figure "What does it matter? My beliefs are the right beliefs anyway!"
    • sibhod, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good. … Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a Biblical duty, we are called by God, to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism."
      -Randall Terry

      "If I could just get a nuclear device inside Foggy Bottom [metonym for the United States Department of State], I think that's the answer."
      -Pat Robertson

  • thefreshbeats, on 10/17/2007, -11/+12@ adent1066
    "There are plenty of rational, logical, and reasonable Christians."

    First off, you can't be rational or logical if you believe the world is 4,000 years old. Secondly, you can't be rational or logical if you believe that everybody that disagrees with your religion is going to hell. That's just plain unreasonable. See how I did that?
    • adent1066, on 10/12/2007, -7/+3Not all Christians are fundamentalists. In fact I would say most are not. For example, Roman Catholics are the largest Christian denomination. They are not fundamentalist, they believe in evolution, etc.
    • AJH16, on 10/12/2007, -8/+5Your point is irrelevant. First, many christians don't believe the world is 4,000 years old (and even if they believe in a young earth, it would be closer to 10,000 years.)

      Second, why is it so unreasonable to assume that anyone who disagrees with your religion is going to hell. If you believe there is absolute right and wrong and that doing anything wrong prevents you from going to heaven unless you are forgiven, then how is that irrational?

      I may not know if my version of right and wrong is correct, but the point still stands that if there is an absolute right and wrong and I'm on the side of wrong, then it seems pretty reasonable to figure I might be in trouble.
    • Valmorian, on 10/12/2007, -5/+6They also believe that ~2000 years ago, someone was _raised from the dead after 3 days_. That's just as irrational.
    • ahknight, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Two people. Don't forget our boy Lazarus.
    • Otto, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9@AJH >>> "Second, why is it so unreasonable to assume that anyone who disagrees with your religion is going to hell."

      Because such a belief makes the assumption that your religion is absolutely correct, with no possibility of being wrong. The belief itself is irrational. Faith is irrational, more or less by definition.

      It's the closed mindedness that many non-believers object to. You're not capable of having rational discussion. You cannot admit the possibility that you could be wrong, so there's nothing to discuss, as far as you're concerned.

      Furthermore, your belief that the other person is "going to hell" or whatever creates a confrontational atmosphere and a desire to not be "tempted into sin". Religion not only makes one incapable of rational thought, but makes one incapable of listening to rational thought by other people who are not so afflicted.
    • yoink23, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Not all Christians believe in a young earth (~6000 years). There are many other viewpoints such as Theistic Evolution (basically, God uses evolution as a means to create). Know your facts.

      Edit: I should refresh before commenting...
  • kmk2006, on 10/12/2007, -21/+5http://www.digg.com/tech_news/Digg_It_Ain_t_What_It_Used_to_Be_In_Fact_It_Kinda_Sucks
    • VeryAngryJim, on 10/12/2007, -5/+5your link title is interesting. I personally think the reason it sucks is morons like you who spam stories like this.
  • ToasTeh, on 10/12/2007, -5/+5yeah caught this one in the cinema - The indoctrination of kids is wrong... These kids WILL grow up believing its thier place to give thier life up for thier religion. America is going down the ***** because of this thin veil between religion and goverment. WAKE UP, in god we trust has been involved in politics and US currency only since the 1920's. Your country is changing and is so far from "the land of the free" the rest of the world laughs out loud - all the while fearing the global religious war that Christians, more than muslims, are inciting.
  • Shak, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3It's groups like these that distort the view of the true faith of Christianity. Look at the impact these sort of videos and news coverage has already had on public opinion of the Muslim community.

    It's just that this sort of thing isn't as widely covered as the 'islamo-facist-dictato-radic-terror-ism' news frenzy or the 6 imams being pulled off the airplane because they were praying.

    Oh, that, and we're fighting terrorism here.
  • cocoamix, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12I love the fat woman in the opening scene complaining that there are too many fat, lazy Christians.

    • dopyoman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0She probably thought she saw Jesus in her fat everytime she looked in the mirror.
  • durmer, on 10/12/2007, -6/+1I was eight minutes in and I threw up a little in my mouth. Then, in the time it took me to login to digg, I puked everywhere.
  • arduenn, on 10/12/2007, -6/+2Boy are these people wrong. Don't they know that it is written--right here--that God does not exist?
  • Buluen, on 10/12/2007, -6/+9I find it disturbing that most people here find any reason possible to bash christianity. Yes there are some people out there who claim their christians and are on the extreme side of the spectrum but that does not apply to all christians. As a christian myself I logically believe there is a intelligent creator not because of blind belief nor because I am " scared into fear by a devil". The bible is proabably the most targetted object for bashing christianity with claims that it is unreliable and inaccurate. But really we have enough evidence for old and new testaments that it is translated accurately. To say it is not so is just out right ignorance to the hundreds of years of evidence we have , Plato is one of the most accepted intellectual literary works on philosophy, yet we have no proof that he even existed or wrote the texts. As for God , I encourage anyone with doubts to read C.S Lewis's books. Lewis is a man who was a atheist and the more he reasoned his beliefs and thoughts the more he logically concluded that there must be a God. I won't go into detail but what im really trying to say is that there are credible intellectual christians. Whats really sad is most of the christians are not sure why they believe what they believe or study in theology. Christians used to be the first scientists and were in the front center of the world to show a plausible view points on polotics , government ect. But somewhere along the road they began to withdraw from those things because people challenged them in their beliefs and they did not know how to respond.
    • ToasTeh, on 10/12/2007, -5/+2They still can be its just that christianity has to evole with science. Its fundementalist christians who take the word of the bible as fact. I don't understand why the can't accept that it was written by the hand of man, not deity and however "pure" the authers is open to any amount of corruption as any facet of man. I'd love to see scientists skipping though meadows with christians but at the moment one of us has to change, possible the one based on interpretation not fact?
    • Valmorian, on 10/12/2007, -5/+6I've read C.S. Lewis' "Mere Christianity" and quite frankly, his reasons for believing in God are irrational. They boil down to: "people seem to have a common morality, therefore God exists!". Recurring moral codes can be quite adequately explained through social evolution, with no need to appeal to a supernatural creator.
    • Zaphod2016, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Karl Jung explained the same phenomena as the collective unconcious.

      Chris Rock said it best in "Dogma": it's hard to change a belief, I prefer to have ideas.
    • x1479, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I've read CS Lewis Mere Christianity and even some more modern day books like Lee Strobel's work. I'm not convinced. And I'm not convinced because I want to be immoral and do bad things like some of these apologist suggest. Bringing up someone who was once an atheist who became a believer is a trite argument. I know a lot more people who were believers that became atheist or agnostic than vice versa.

      And with that in mind I invite you to read some works by Bart Ehrman. Misquoting Jesus is where he tells his own story from his early days as a Christian fundamentalism to eventually becoming an agnostic. As a fundamentalist, he so loved studying the Bible and its history that he eventually he came across things that clearly showed him that it was flawed and that he couldn't rationally reconcile that it was inerrant. The book specifically focuses on the problems inherent in copying a holy book when scribes had to do it instead of printing presses.

      He has another work by the Teaching Company called Historical Jesus. You may want to try that one too. He clearly shows for examples how the synoptic Gospels and Gospel of John contradict one another as to the time of Jesus' death. The apologist argument that there were multiple passover meals is quite a weak defense of this contradiction. The idea being in the Gospel of John that Jesus is hung the same time as the Passover lambs being sacrificed before the Passover meal the Last Supper in the synoptics clearly takes place after that the sacrifice of the lambs. Of course this is done in John to fit the theology declared early on in the book 1:29: "Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world" as John is the Gospel that most strongly proclaims the theology that Jesus died for all men's sins.

      There are other problems that just don't hold up to textual analysis and scrutiny. And fundamentalist who have to worship the Bible as literally true find a whole bunch of weak defenses to try to fix the contradictions that really look lame to anyone of a certain level of rationallogical sophistication.

      With all that said I'm not an atheist nor do I subscribe to some other monotheistic faith like Islam or Judaism. And stop acting like all Christians are some type of victims in this country. All I hear on my radio is Christmas songs this time of the year. Not that I have a problem with that, but this whining about being victims and persecuted is just a little too paranoid.

      What literalist Bible believing Christians need to do is find a way to reconcile their faith and morality and belief with scientific, logical, and historical truths. There are faithful Christians for example who know how to reconcile their faith with evolution for example. Try Finding Darwin's God by Ken Miller if you need some help there.
  • walnoj, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9That woman at the beginning...

    "Children are so useful in Christianity"

    Seems like it. I will never expose my child to this. She can make that decision when she's older.
    • AJH16, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4While I agree that we shouldn't brain wash our children, is it really possible to avoid passing our own views on to them, wether that be a faith in religion or a belief that religions are false?
    • Zaphod2016, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Yes and no. Will we expose our children to our own prejudices and opinions? Absolutley. Will they agree with us 100%? No chance in hell. What is the subconcious effect of childhood brainwashing? No one seems 100% sure.

      I say- get your kid an Internet-connected PC as soon as they learn to read and understand what a lie is. Let them expose themselves to the marketplace of ideas, and see what sticks. I think. sooner or later, we all find our own truth. Some are willing to work hard and go far to find it, other accept the first thing they hear and move on to other things. It is our own business, our own problem.

      Every major religion has a) perfectly rational advice and b) barbaric traditions which are appaling when viewed with an open mind. The Internet contains a) every lie ever told and b) every fact ever discovered. Being able to distinguish between good and bad is not always as easy a it seems.
  • thepeacemaker, on 10/12/2007, -5/+4Crazy girl: "If you were to die right now, where do you think you will go?"
    Stranger: "heaven"
    Crazy girl (walking away): "I think they are Muslims."

    LOL :-D ..that kid needs a good strong dose of retalin.
  • sathia, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3i'll do what you want me to do...

    scary
  • dodgyd55, on 10/12/2007, -8/+2ROFL losers, there is only one way foward....... kill all religions ....... hmm is making me think in that south park episode :D
  • vtlunchbox, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3when i first saw the title i was like aw man jesse camp from mtv i hate that guy then i watched it and it clearly wasn't thank god
    • echo1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2haha i just did the same thing, what a asshat he was
  • CarolinaHeel23, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7Anyone who wants to "take America back for God" has no Biblical basis for doing so. Take it back? Since when was American a Christ-like nation? If you consider yourself a Christian and look in the bible, Jesus tells Pilate "My Kingdon is not of this world..." This group of Christians, including the "religious right" hurt the Christian faith more than any secular group or power ever could.
    • Zaphod2016, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"This group of Christians, including the "religious right" hurt the Christian faith more than any secular group or power ever could."

      I see you are getting dugg down, so I just wanted to let you know that *I* agree with this statement 100%.
  • curtvdh, on 10/12/2007, -6/+1Not sure what the big deal is. Yeah, these people are just slightly on the wrong side of 'crazy', but they aren't quite Jim Jonesy (yet). Live and let live, I say. Besides, I doubt most of these kids will turn into frothing-at-the-mouth psychos. They will probably just grow up with shiny ideals, and then find out that the world is a completely different place than they were led to believe.

    And, in any case, the countless Fundamentalist Christian Camps that I attended as a kid and a teen made me what I am today - an atheist.
    • woody56292, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2you know, you are right, I haven't finished the movie yet, and they are just your average evangelicals.

      they need to understand that you can praise God through other ways. You don't have to listen to only christian music, dancing is ok; i do it all the time, badly.... i might add =).
      You can be evangelical through your actions, you don't have to be constantly talking to people about God. although I have no problem with it so long as the other person is willing to talk about it.

      we see this problem alot in the church. it is like a violin. some are wound too tight ( these guys ) and others are too loose ( people who believe that it is ok to habitually sin because god will forgive them )

      People need to start reading their bibles, all of it, and change their lifestyle as set by Jesus' example.
  • deviantdarlings, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Wow.. I couldn't be prouder to be from Kansas City. /sarcasm
  • kingofthisnight, on 10/12/2007, -2/+21Here is a fun little religion fact. A Jehovah's Witness literally just broke into my house 10 minutes ago to put a ***** flier on my table after I refused to answer my door. That kid apparently had a massive set of balls on him. He just strolled his merry ass into my house and put some of his ***** literature on my table. I chased his ass down to yell at him.

    Anyone want to help me find some contact info on these people. I am pretty pissed about the whole situation and can't find much on their website. The website on the back of the flier was http://www.watchtower.org/.
    • cliffzdude, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3And people here are calling Chrisitans "crazy".
    • kingofthisnight, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3I was shocked and still am. I am cool with religion but people need to learn to keep it to themselves and realize that not everyone wants to be forced to accept anothers point of view.
    • JeffD, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Did he literally break in (as in bust throughh a locked door)? Or did he just open the door walk in to the table and leave the pamphlet? Not that going inside without being invited would be acceptable... but its not quite the same as picking a lock or busting down a door.
    • geoboy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Dude, some Jehovahs almost did that to me once too! I saw them coming to the door and immediately thought "awww *****" and hid myself and avoided answering the door. There was some really loud banging like these people really wanted to get in, then suddenly... I heard them jiggling the ***** door knob! Good thing the door was locked. There was more banging and more fiddling with the knob (like they were trying to jimmy it open). I was about ready to ***** call the cops when they finally gave up and left.

      Wackos.
  • jonpotz, on 10/12/2007, -3/+15The best part is when Ted Haggard (the former pastor of Evangelical New Life Church) mocks gays only to find out a few months down the road that he in fact was ***** a gay hooker and snorting methamphetamine.

    He says in the movie:

    "We don't have to have a debate about what we think about homosexual activity. It's written in the Bible." Shortly after that, Haggard looks mockingly into the camera to say, "I think I know what you did last night. If you send me a thousand dollars, I won't tell your wife."

    ***** sick hypocrite.
    • altjeringa, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8***** hell of a business man. he's rich and now he's retired. he can screw gay prostitutes all he likes.
    • Bytor, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Oddly you are being dugg down for pointing out the hypocrisy.

      This hypocrisy seems to be common among the leaders of these supposedly morally superior religious folks.

      Odd how all the lead atheist speakers these days, who are supposedly morally bankrupt, never seem to end up in scandals.

      Compare the atheist morality of Richard Dawkins, Carl Sagan, Stephen J Gould, James Randi, or other prominent atheist speakers to the Jimi Swaggarts, Ted Haggards, Jim Bakers, Oral Roberts, etc...

      How do people still believe that atheist are immoral and religion automatically makes for better behavior/morality. Farcical.

    • deviantdarlings, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I noticed he pretty much told that kid Levi that the content of his sermons sucked and people only listened to him because he was a cute kid. Nice positive re-inforcement there Ted.
  • altjeringa, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5The difference between man and animals is reason.
    Faith is the abdication of reason.
    Therefore the faithful abdicate their humanity.

    Of course they are still human because you cannot give up your mind, but I've never seen a lot of people work harder to turn their minds in to mush. Not just the extremist, the whole lot. The moment you say, "I believe absolutely that X is true" you have stated explicitly, " I am a moron."

    We all have beliefs, we all have faith to some extent. The problem with Christianity is that in the face proof that it is wrong on any given thing, Christianity adheres to the bible as the ultimate truth.

    The scientific mind on the other hand posits a belief as such, "I believe Z, because I think X and Y yeild Z" and then established tests to DISPROVE it's belief.

    The Crusades were no accident, Muslim terrorism is no accident. The world view of the children of Judism is Dualistic and the adherents of these religions see the world as GOOD and EVIL. The moderates as we call then are moderate only in so much as they have been secularlized.

    It is sad. Because Jesus had some good thinngs to say but Christians as they call themselves really ought to be called Paulists. I don't recall hearing a Christian quote Christ in years, they like to quote Paul, they like to quote the Old Testement. It would be interesting to hear a modern Christian quote the beatitudes. ( I doubt most Christians even know what they are ).
    • GodsKnight, on 05/28/2008, -0/+0Here is a Jesus Christ quote at your request:

      1Now there were some present at that time who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices.

      2Jesus answered, "Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way?

      3I tell you, no!

      But unless you repent, you too will all perish.

      4Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem?

      5I tell you, no!

      But unless you repent, you too will all perish."

      - Luke 13:2-5
  • JewishPower, on 10/12/2007, -5/+6Thank God I wasn't born to a pair of nutjobs that would send me to an indoctrination camp like that.


  • tresk, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Man, that Movie gave me shivers!!! I kept waiting for someonos head to start spinning, and screaming some demonic chant, ;p
  • drmangrum, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2I wonder how many of these Christians professing that lunatics like this are not "True Christians" then generalize the Muslim community as terrorists?

    More than a few i bet.
  • Crosshare, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12"We pray over the Powerpoint presentations" lmao, best line ever
    • darthmdh, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5You've obviously never used Powerpoint for anything serious ;-)
  • PsycoEwok, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9I wanted to ***** explode when I watched the home-schooling scene. That poor kid being taught that *****...
    • mbthompson, on 10/12/2007, -8/+1Right, because you have a right to tell a parent how they should raise their children. Get real.
    • drmangrum, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7The child is being taught fiction. How is it fair to the child when they have to go out into the real world armed with a partial ( and dogmatic) view of the world. How are they going to get a decent college education, outside of evangelical colleges, when they have been taught to fear and reject everything that is remotely different than their own beliefs.
    • mbthompson, on 10/12/2007, -9/+3Well let's see. I went to a Christian school up until middle school, I still believe what the Bible says is 100% accurate though I do not take it as a scientific account of what happened at creation. I am a devoted Christian. I have two Associated Press Awards, a National Religious Broadcaster's Award (which I got for undergrad work), and had my senior project broadcast on 250 stations nationally. I am currently getting my masters at a state university, and I'm a member of three honor societies including Phi Kappa Phi. Answer your question?
    • Bytor, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6"I am currently getting my masters at a state university, and I'm a member of three honor societies including Phi Kappa"

      You gotta love it when people brag themselves up online (unverifiable) like their personal anecdote makes it some kind of evidence. Even if true, there are always exceptions, but statistically I am sure the vast majority of kids brainwashed and home schooled into disbelieving the facts surrounding, global warming and evolution are not going to grow up with degrees in biology from a real University. Mostly the will get degrees in religious studies or "political" science.

      One more thing. Did you actually watch "Jesus Camp" and witness the level of total brainwashing within? Is this what you grew up with?
    • shmatt, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2WOW, mbthompson, you are the most awesome Christian ever!

      the difference is this kid is home-schooled, so he's not gonna hear any other views other than his crazy parents. NOT good for a kid.
    • mbthompson, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2@Bytor

      I didn't go to a school or church where emotionalism was key, but I was certainly taught what the Bible said and to believe it as truth. No one can make you believe. If you believe that then you are truly ignorant. As I became a young man I found it to be 100% reliable and true for myself. How do you distinguish brainwashing, btw? Being taught that it's fine if Tommy has two dads and that non-acceptance of that lifestyle is intolerant? When it's secular teaching, it's tolerance, when it's sacred, it's brainwashing. Sounds to me like popularity is what differentiates the two. And as far as my credentials go, that's your problem if you choose not to believe it. It wasn't directed towards you anyway and I feel no need to prove myself to you or anyone else. And now since I've actually responded someone will most likely accuse me of being condescending and digg me down. Frankly I don't care, I have to finish up the second chapter of my thesis this afternoon so have fun patting each other on the back and calling me names and so forth.
    • Bytor, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Again have you watched the Video?

      "No one can make you believe. If you believe that then you are truly ignorant. As I became a young man I found it to be 100% reliable and true for myself."

      You think it is coincidence that 99% of Saudis, Pakistanis etc. are Muslims, or that most Americans are Christians, or that most Indians are Hindus? Does the truth vary by geography? Children are like sponges, programmed to believe the adults in their lives for survival reasons. Why do think the hundreds of millions above all believe different things and are all convinced they have the truth, without evidence I might add. Simple brainwashing.

      "How do you distinguish brainwashing, btw?"

      Watch the full video then tell me it is not. Right now I think you are commenting from a point of ignorance.

      "Being taught that it's fine if Tommy has two dads and that non-acceptance of that lifestyle is intolerant? When it's secular teaching, it's tolerance, when it's sacred, it's brainwashing. Sounds to me like popularity is what differentiates the two."

      Show me any secularists scaring their kids until they are in tears, until the kid spouts that being gay is good and I will be equally appalled. Most secularist teach their kids compassion, and to think for themselves, they don't impose dogma and fear.

      I would certainly class what I saw here as brainwashing.

    • mbthompson, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1"Why do think the hundreds of millions above all believe different things and are all convinced they have the truth, without evidence I might add. Simple brainwashing."

      And yet many of them convert to Christianity as adults. How about the thousands of adults that go forward at Billy Graham Crusades? Or conversely, how about those who were raised as Catholics, Protestants, Christians etc. and walk away from it to become agnostics, atheists etc? Kinda blows a hole in your theory of children being programmed for life. Any true Christian will tell you, there comes a point when you make it your own. I hope that helps shed some light.
    • mbthompson, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2And one final thing, do I agree with what I perceived in some of the situations on that video? No of course not, but let's remember, what we are seeing has been carefully assembled by the director and editor in order to convey the message they wanted to get across. For instance there is a point in the homeschooling scenario where the mother says "How would you feel if you went to a school where they said 'You believe in evolution, you're stupid' " or something along those lines. The child answers "Well I probably wouldn't mind" and then CUT! We never hear the mother's response. I am willing to bet she said something along the lines of "Well you may not care, but how do you think the other person would feel? It's not very nice is it?" But alas, we are not allowed to see what her response was, and that was a deliberate decision by the film-maker. Let's try to keep things in perspective before jumping to conclusions.

      (oh, and yes I did watch it) ;)
    • Bytor, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3"And yet many of them convert to Christianity as adults. How about the thousands of adults that go forward at Billy Graham Crusades? Or conversely, how about those who were raised as Catholics, Protestants, Christians etc. and walk away from it to become agnostics, atheists etc? Kinda blows a hole in your theory of children being programmed for life."

      No because like many theists you keep thinking one anecdote invalidates a theory, it doesn't. I never claimed brainwashing was 100% effective. Just mostly effective and not everyone faces the depth of brainwashing seen in this tape that is more akin to Pakistani madrases. I suspect 90%+ of these kids will remain faithful, just as 90%+ of Pakistani children.

      A great many of the Islamic countries remain at around 99% faithful adherents. I believe the USA is around 80% for a different truth.

      Any objective person would realize they are merely inheriting the beliefs of their parents. To an 80% level in more moderate (overall) USA and to a 99% level in more fundamentalist Saudi Arabia. The overall statistics back my theory quite soundly.

      How do you reconcile all these different faith based truths being geographically coincident, if it is not merely being indoctrinated by parents?
    • BobbyShaftoe, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3I'm an atheist. A few years back, while I was in the later years of university, I was agnostic. Before that, I considered myself a Christian.

      It's a path that many follow, as I understand. But to mbthompson's point, it's not the only path ever taken. Many, like Eliot, go the other direction.

      My journey to atheism was a profoundly personal journey, and having arrived there, I do not pretend that I now stand on entirely reasoned or "correct" ground. I also doubt it is the last ground I will stand on. That's the thing: I'm human, and as such, I'm not entirely rational. I am not omniscient. Therefore, I can never be sure that I'm right about anything, especially matters so profound as the nature of self, the universe, and God.

      You people who digg down others for standing up for professing some faith, be it Christianity, Buddhism, Scientology, Hinduism, Islam, or whatever, are the biggest hypocrites of all. You pretend like there is no article of faith to your own atheism. Like somehow you have entirely digested all of Hawking's and Sagan's hypothoses, arguments, and formulas, understanding and mastering all. Ha! We who are not amongst the prophets believe what they tell us to believe just like any other drone. And make no mistake, it is belief just like mbthompson's beliefs... no better, no worse.

  • CarbonEclectic, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8This movie was without a doubt one of the most disturbing pieces of film I've ever experienced, and I've seen Old Boy. It's terrible to watch children to speak in tongues or spasm because brainwashing religious leaders are injecting them with this nonsense.
  • NewPunk, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5Stupid people, strong faith. This could breed something similar to Muslim extremist in the USA. Who knows if one of the kids from this camp goes and conducts a personal "crusade" against a Muslim, Hindu or Buddhist country in the name of his God. It is a terrible thing to brain wash children to be so close minded and to look at the bible and christianism as the only religion and close your mind to any signs that other religions exist. It is a scary movie that made me shake my head every few minutes at the blindly misguided views that these Christian extremists are spreading to the youth of the nation.

    I heard that they are not going to have this particular camp anymore, which is great. But I bet there are others similar to it that are still operating. It's a real shame that this kind of thing is going on and I think everyone should open their eyes and realize that this is not right, and that these extreme camps are a horrible idea in general.
  • Buluen, on 10/12/2007, -7/+2" I've read C.S. Lewis' "Mere Christianity" and quite frankly, his reasons for believing in God are irrational. They boil down to: "people seem to have a common morality, therefore God exists!". Recurring moral codes can be quite adequately explained through social evolution, with no need to appeal to a supernatural creator. "

    I find it highly rational. If we are products of evolution and random chance we should have no moral codes what so ever. Atheism and Evolution give no value to humans besides the fact that they are on top of the intellectual and food chain. Complex Machines. This is why Naturalism usually leads to Nihilism which is a world view of denial of all truth because they think there is no value to any life. And really if you think about it in a naturalistic world view there is no right or wrong yet the more Lewis thought about it there really is. Mere Christianity is a spectacular book and the first few chapters are amazing but even if you don't think his first statements are good the rest is really insightful to what true Christians believe.
    • Valmorian, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2"I find it highly rational. If we are products of evolution and random chance we should have no moral codes what so ever."

      You need to read some more about social evolution. I suggest reading "The Selfish Gene" by Richard Dawkins, where cooperative behaviors are shown to be evolutionarily advantageous. Once you are done that, you could try reading Michael Shermer's "The Science of Good and Evil" which demonstrates futher reasons to believe that morality is perfectly consistent with naturalism.

      C.S. Lewis's arguments are made from ignorance, that's why his book is nonsense.

  • jzulli, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Movie has been taken down. :(
    • ahknight, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3... but the TinyURL above still works for the time being. Get to it, quick!
  • bardamu, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5Hitler Youth camps for Christians. Get em while they are young. Get em while they are dumb. Those teachers/preachers/parents should be in jail for child abuse. I wish I was joking.

    That was probably the most disturbing show I have ever watched. I'm actually feeling a little sick. There is church and faith and religion and that's fine and good but when it goes too far its called abuse. Who protects the kids when the parents are off their rocker and expose them willingly to this kind of brainwashing and indoctrination? Who is going to save these kids? Maybe if they are lucky Jesus might or science or reason but it is definitely not these people.

    • ahknight, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Okay, so you call it indoctrination (so do I, but play along). How about when they say that science is full of the lies of man and an indoctrination of another kind? Who will save their children from that indoctination? Is _that_ abuse?

      In the end it comes down to some very core facts for all sides: fanaticism of any belief (even the belief in nothing) is dangerous. Temperance is the solution, not pulling children from their parents or more indoctrination and certainly not calling something like this abuse.

      I'm a fan of having a world religion class taught every year in high school as a federal mandate, and having a local cleric (if possible) come and teach it when their religion's up. Let the kids see what a member of that faith has to say about it and make the decision themselves. Include atheism. Temperance will solve the problem, not calling names or performing more extreme acts.
  • DownIsTheNewUp, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Extremists of all religions are terrorists.
    • GodsKnight, on 05/27/2008, -0/+0only problem with your theory is that they arent being trained to slaughter jews horribly in concentration camps.

      they are being trained to know the One True and Holy God, Jesus Christ, and to Obey Him.

      That involves loving your enemy and your neighbor etc. a bit different from your ignorant hitler comment.

      A fool in his heart says there is no God.

      If you want to know Him read your Bible and pray to Him,

      Would you rather have kids exposed to sex drugs and rock that influences them to run off in schools shooting Christians? Or preaching against sin?

      Your problem is you love your own sin so much you will judge others who challenge your religion which is sex outside of marriage lying stealing etc.

      May God have mercy on your soul.
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