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- ironeus, on 08/01/2008, -21/+209Well written article.
Security Tip: When connecting to an open WiFi network browse the internet to your heart's desire but don't submit online CC payments or other sensitive private information. Another user with malicious intent can be scanning the same open network to retrieve your info. - fuchsm2002, on 06/20/2008, -3/+176just place a password on your WiFi if you don't want people using it
- kplo, on 04/01/2009, -4/+117i'm stealing wifi right now
- dvsbastard, on 06/19/2008, -17/+128Even if this holds true, being granted permission to be connected to someones network doesn't explicitly grant permission to use their resources.
i.e. Just because I allow you to enter my house it doesn't mean I allow you to take all my posessions. It comes down to ensuring that you do not allow untrusted individuals into your home unsupervised. But if you do so, and they help themselves to your valuables, you are fool - but it is still illegal, and unethical.
Either way this is not all that clear, but one thing is for sure - if you leave your network unsecured, don't be shocked / surprised when someone helps themselves to your bandwidth. - Antonton, on 06/20/2008, -5/+100As Lev Grossman wrote in the original TIME article:
"I mean, those signals were streaming through MY apartment."
Works for me. - AndrewDB, on 06/20/2008, -10/+105To me, it's not stealing if the signals unencrypted.
If you left your wi-fi unencrypted, it's your ow damn fault you've got people poaching on your bandwidth. However, if the signal is encrypted, and you're hacking it to get access to it, that's theft. - trickyt, on 06/20/2008, -1/+74Somebody's never heard of SSL
- inactive, on 06/20/2008, -5/+76Indeed, a well written article. I have two WiFi networks in my apartment, a "public" one (the honeypot) and the "private one" (you're never getting in). The public one is an 802.11g network with a public SSID and no authentication of any kind. In return for my neighbors sneaking on to my network and using it, I feel free to browse their generally horribly insecure computers, read their email, look at their porn, etc. Of course, since they don't bother to ask me if they can use my network, I don't bother to ask them if I can read their email.
Of course, the nice neighbor above me did ask if she could use my wireless network as a backup for when hers doesnt work (we both work largely from home and use different cable companies). As a result of her pleasantness and honesty, she gets access to the private 802.11n network, and I get to use hers when mine goes out. And I don't read her email either.
You get what you give, I guess. - kristopherw, on 06/20/2008, -3/+59Better yet, if the smell of the roses from your garden comes through my window and into my house, am I not allowed to smell them? The smell is, after all, in my house.
- LanceUppercut, on 06/20/2008, -0/+45true. Mine is 3Dont2Hack1Me. I pattern my password toward the hackers with ethics. I wouldn't want them to pirate my shared Top Gear and Lost episodes :(
- LanceUppercut, on 06/20/2008, -1/+41pockets = packets.
- sporg, on 06/20/2008, -7/+43If your nice upstairs neighbor knew that you are the kind of person who reads other peoples email I doubt she would want anything to do with you. You are a creep.
- n0ia, on 06/20/2008, -5/+37Having an unprotected signal is the same as having a huge sign in your yard saying "Free football party inside!" with your door hanging wide open.
People get inside and they can see you, you can see them, and there they are in your living room eating your chips and using your electricity that you pay for.
And I swear if I ever find out who placed that sign in my yard... - mediaspree, on 06/20/2008, -15/+46My father, of all people, put it this way. If I anyone walks by a rose garden, shouldn't they be able to smell the roses along with whoever owns the rose garden?
- bxblox, on 06/20/2008, -5/+35It's more like someone holding a portable fan in 99 degree weather at the bus stop and you standing next to them getting a little breeze. If you don't want anyone else to get your breeze, stop blowing it in their direction.
- mattus, on 06/20/2008, -0/+27... specifically, those that use WEP encryption. Be safe, use WPA, or WPA2 if possible.
- manitoba98xp, on 06/20/2008, -0/+27@mllawso
The fact that "your SSL key" is never transmitted?
If you read the specification, you'll see that. The key exchange is highly secure and allows security, even if the transport medium can be monitored by an attacker, or even if it can be tampered with by an attacker. I'd explain it in more detail, but it's been done many times, and better, than I could. Google can help you there. - teamgwho, on 06/20/2008, -12/+38Consider this. My neighbor has a huge bay window in his living room and in his living room he has a large HDTV and pays $200 for every channel offered by his cable provider. He turns on Starz and watches Finding Nemo. I sit in my apartment and watch his tv thru his bay window. He objects, saying "I pay for this service, not you! How dare you mooch off my service? You have no right to watch my tv!"
Fine. Close your blinds then. If you leave them open, don't complain if I look. If there is something physically in your place which I can access in my place, either visually, audiblly or thru the use of my laptop, and you have the capability to prevent it and don't then it's not theft. Don't send it my way and I won't look/use. - inactive, on 06/20/2008, -4/+28No, I'm just an aging BOFH. I would be a creep if I hopped on OTHER people's networks and read their email. But I don't. And really its very simple--if you're going to hop on a random open network that doesn't belong to you and you don't know how to secure your traffic, then youll get what you deserve.
And as a matter of note, my upstairs neighbor knows exactly what I'm doing, and she thinks its as funny and apropos as I do. - omelette, on 06/20/2008, -3/+25Yeah, that analogy doesn't really hold up. I describe it more like: I knock on your door and a butler answers, invites me in and serves me tea, am I stealing the tea? The person you've put in charge of your resources (your router in this case) is cheerily handing them out. Just because you never told the help to turn people away doesn't mean the guests are at fault. The only people I possibly see at fault here are the butler manufacturers (for making the default response, "come in and have some tea") or the owner of the butler themselves for not bothering to give basic instructions before leaving someone else in charge.
- SonnyJoeFoxx, on 06/20/2008, -8/+29"If you can see your neighbor's network on your computer, that means he's breaking into YOUR house, not that you're breaking into his."
Thank you so much for breaking in, neighbors. - inactive, on 06/19/2008, -10/+31Nice logic there Mikey. open Wi-Fi is the epitome of turning out your pockets to anyone who passes by.
- Wilson, on 06/20/2008, -5/+25Unless you have a VPN server to tunnel through :D
- inactive, on 06/20/2008, -9/+29I guess you can rationalize anything...
- cozinator, on 06/20/2008, -0/+20No, but I think you should be free to use it while it's there.
- gfunk84, on 06/20/2008, -1/+21Stupid Nintendo DS only supports WEP.
- trylk, on 06/20/2008, -3/+22In all the arguments that I've seen on this issue over the years, the part about "Their signal is coming into my house so I have the right to use it" really gets me. Fine, use that signal coming into your house all you want, but as soon as you TRANSMIT a signal back to my router, you are trespassing across MY property. Using someone else's WiFI is not a passive activity.
- lukas88, on 06/20/2008, -4/+23The first argument is bad because the computer granting permission is not the same thing as a human granting permission. An unlocked router does not signify "permission" any more than an unlocked door does. The communication of machines is being construed here to represent the owner's choice of granting you access, which it is not.
The second argument is just embarrassing. By that argument you can say it is fine to open your neighbor's mail if it gets mistakenly delivered to your house or listen to his cell phone signals that happen to go through your house. The ISP could be justified in spying on your online activity because that information goes through their servers. Ridiculous.
Many people who leave their wireless networks open are not aware that others can connect to it because they just never thought about it. If they own the equipment, it is their responsibility to know how to use it. It is should not be illegal simply because it is not the government's responsibility to protect you from your own ignorance. - MadHarvey, on 06/20/2008, -0/+19Actually, wep is fine. A simple password is fine. This will eliminate 99.9 % of people using your wifi. If you don't put a door up, people will assume its ok to walk in. If they see a closed door, most people will respect that, and not go through the extra effort (and clear incrimination) required to open it. It doesn't matter how secure the door is except in the .1 % case of people who are actually looking to do something nefarious rather than just surf the net on their lunch break or something...
- lacr, on 06/20/2008, -2/+18I am.
- FunnyBunnyBo, on 06/20/2008, -6/+22Don't want your WIFI used by your neighbors? Secure it.
Simple as that.
Don't bitch and moan when your porn isn't downloading fast enough when you've got an unsecured wireless connection beaming out to all your neighbors. I'm looking at you troutman. I've been using your WIFI for six months. Thanks for the slow but free access. I say this now because I finally got my own broadband. And I've already secured it. But there's probably 30 other neighbors who are still macking. You deserve it because you're the only person on the block who still hasn't secured their WIFI. - Induane, on 06/20/2008, -7/+20I don't pay to breath air... is that stealing. You're applying logic that doesn't always apply and using it as a blanket comparison. Quit being an idiot.
- Fungyo, on 06/20/2008, -0/+13As long as you're connecting through a secure connection such as SSL, which gmail does, then the chance of having your login details captured is highly unlikely.
- teh_techie, on 06/20/2008, -2/+15It is ok. If you don't want someone looking - FIX IT!
- inactive, on 06/20/2008, -0/+13@mllawso
Obviously you dont understand how VPN works. It is completely secure to use on an open wifi network. Helpful things to research would be private/public key encryption, certificates, and SSL (creates completely secure connection over public lines) - inactive, on 06/20/2008, -0/+12 No but you should be allowed to watch a show.
- techie4life, on 06/20/2008, -1/+13is that normally an issue for you?
- n00854180t, on 06/20/2008, -1/+13First of all, you don't have the faintest idea of what you're talking about. Using a network that is *unsecured* is not "stealing" which by definition involves *depriving* a resource from someone. Using said network does not disallow its owner from using it, thus not depriving the owner of any resources, and is thus not stealing BY DEFINITION. Further more, by leaving your network unsecured, you are EXPLICITLY telling your router to EXPLICITLY give permission to any computer that requests it. If you cannot grasp the basic principles of networking, you have no business voicing your ignorant, ***** opinion on the matter.
If you don't want to give permission to everyone to use your network, then you must configure your network NOT to give permission. Otherwise, you have NO right to complain that YOU set your network up to give permission to use it to any computer that requests access.
You people are ***** retarded, and have no business trying to use your brain dead opinions to make law. - ohplease, on 06/20/2008, -14/+26
If someone doesn't know how or forgets to lock their front door it means you're allowed into their house, right? - zman1117, on 06/20/2008, -1/+13Ooooh, I like that analogy the best so far.
- alwilson, on 06/20/2008, -4/+15So...it's okay to be a peeping tom then? If your neighbors daughter is undressing and forgets to close the shade, it's okay for you to watch her? Just checking.
- inactive, on 06/20/2008, -1/+12How can he be intercepting you through a VPN tunnel? Did he break inside your own computer?
- Louis11, on 06/20/2008, -7/+18Oh shut up you self righteous *****.
- ry4nsm1th, on 06/20/2008, -1/+12Was anyone else searching for the "Next >" button? Just so used to it these days.
- yuanzhoulu, on 06/20/2008, -0/+10right. accessible wi-fi should be considered free for all by law.
if someone wants to protect their network, they should do so with WEP or similar techniques. hacking that should be against the law. - pedepy, on 06/20/2008, -1/+11It's even more than that - when you request a connection, the router will *allow* you, and hence it's more like opening up your pockets, and giving permission to anyone who *asks* to take something out of it.
now, when you crack a security key, or otherwise enter a *closed* wifi hotspot, then that's more like pickpocketting... - bxblox, on 06/20/2008, -8/+18As far as i'm concerned if you broadcast unencrypted signal into my house, i'm free to use it.
- Rikkochet, on 06/20/2008, -0/+10Protip: You can't even make a credit card transaction without SSL anymore. Worry about keyloggers and creepy guys standing over your shoulder, not packet sniffers.
- thegodfaza, on 06/20/2008, -1/+11Thats why you block mac addresses or my personal favorite, use 512 encryption and slap the keyboard around for 5 minutes for a password.
- kevinwiz, on 06/20/2008, -0/+10Yes.
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