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66 Comments
- titansix, on 07/20/2009, -0/+27"The report also said that more than half of the police and firefighters who have retired since 1998 are getting paid more in retirement than when they worked." Wild. I understand cost of living and all, but during a recession we're not expecting these people to pinch either?
- boxxa, on 07/20/2009, -0/+12At least the younger generation will have social security......
Oh wait. - sheagunther42, on 07/20/2009, -1/+13Someday I hope to have a pension.
- obliviousfool, on 07/20/2009, -0/+11Yeah ...about that. A funny thing happened to yours. We gave in to a guy in China. But don't worry! It was invested in the market, so he doesn't have anything either.
- kemp34, on 07/20/2009, -0/+7Usually expenses are lower as you get old too, no more mortgage, no need to save for the future, etc. This is what is killing state and muni budgets.
- oldhick, on 07/20/2009, -2/+8OMG, obviously none of you have EVER done civil service work. Bureaucracies are pathetic and inept wastes of money. People with zero skills and zero talent end up there. As someone whose done a bit, and done quite a bit of consulting work for, you guys couldn't be more wrong. Most civil servants aren't cops or firemen.
There is nothing noble about living off of tax payers in a bureaucracy. - MonkeyOverlord, on 07/20/2009, -1/+7Civil service is no more inherently honorable than military service makes you a hero just for showing up in formation after basic training. What you do that goes above and beyond the call of duty is what makes civil service honorable. Otherwise, it's just another job like working for any private employer.
- Wargala, on 07/20/2009, -5/+10And you do realize that those numbers are for San Francisco, one of the biggest liberal cities in the nation?
- kingnova, on 07/20/2009, -1/+5Wow. You just slammed MILLIONS of people with one of the broadest generalities I have ever seen. You really need a break from the internet.
There are MANY honorable and noble civil servants. You seem to think the government can operate in a vacuum. I am really stunned to see you attacking millions of people, because you have sone "a bit" or work in the area.
Civil Service was founded in 1872. Are you saying the founding fathers are idiots? All judicial appointees are dishonorable?
Really man, you need to step back and take a look at how far you have gone lately. - scamper22, on 07/20/2009, -0/+3No surprise here.
Those in the central government will always work for their own benefit. In every country I have lived in, that is the case. From Africa to India to here. The words and platitude of those in the government is always to 'help the poor'. At the end, do they give two craps about the poor? No. They always just give themselves better pensions, more money... give their friends jobs, their buddies the contracts.
it's the nature of centralization. It's human nature.
Why the poor keep believing their salvation lies in empowering those in government is beyond me. By all means, redistribute wealth, but give the poor the money directly.
Why the good hearted people are stupid enough to think that just because they are good hearted , that everyone else in their profession will act the same.
There is no such thing as civil service when money is involved.. When the government is throwing around money, the most scandalous people are there like wolves. Individuals might be honorable people, but there are no honorable professions. Especially when you give them unlimited budgets and powers of taxation. Every groups priority is their paycheque first.
Sure, a used car salesman might rip you off for a few hundred bucks.
But think of the things the 'civil service' does to protect their jobs. Police, prison guards, lawyers advocate for the war on drugs because it enriches them. Putting in countless people in jail and ruining their lives.
Teacher unions prevent all kinds of change and choice affecting the future of entire generations.
Public sector pensions might bankrupt entire cities and countries.
And of course, the used car salesman doesn't get any money unless you voluntarily give him money. All the above, have the police force and legal system with a gun to your head to force money from you.
Makes the used car salesman sound more honorable doesn't it? - NJank, on 07/20/2009, -0/+3yup. as such the DoD is trying to switch over to a 'pay for performance' civilian personnel system. Man the unions are fighting that tooth and nail. They have 'demonstration projects' at different labs and installations, and most people think it is fair and works well. Still have the normal fed gov't retirement package, though, and there's still a (reduced) pension portion to that.
- inactive, on 07/20/2009, -0/+3I think I'm about ready to claim Exempt on my taxes ;)
- Liability, on 07/20/2009, -3/+6All aboard the gubbament cheeze train. All a-board!
- omgTHEPATRIOTS, on 07/20/2009, -2/+5You think that's bad, you should see the federal officers who retire from their jobs to take positions as "advisors" so they can get a double salary.
- whorunbartertwn, on 07/20/2009, -0/+2It's almost a scam, and I feel okay saying that because my wife works for a city and she'll have a pension... I guess we're in on it.
Sure they need to retain workers but the gap between govt-civ pay isn't as big as it once was, and in many areas it's actually advantageous salary-wise to work for the govt. Examples = at my wife's job there are administrative assistants who have been there for 8 years that have maxed out on their pay grade, meaning they are 28 years old making 45k per year as a clerk and will retire at about age 50.
They currently use 80 points for years service + age for retirement, that means most are able to retire in their early 50s, which just isn't reasonable for today's society. My tax dollars should not be going to pay someone to retire with a COLAd pension and health benefits at age 52 as a perfectly healthy able bodied worker. The monetary advantage for them in that far, far exceeds any disadvantage of it being a government job. They're thrown around the idea of raising it to 85 points but it gets shot down every time.
The govt pension system needs a complete overhaul. For jobs like firefighter/cops that might have physical restrictions past a certain age move them into office or support roles, don't just let people retire at 48 then start a new career somewhere else while earning a pension. IMO should be minimum age of 65 to retire with a govt pension, they still get a huge bennie in not having the burden of having to save for their elder years because of that COLA so it remains an attractive career path. - whorunbartertwn, on 07/20/2009, -0/+2For someone with no college degree, in their 20s, who's just an admin, 45k is a solid salary. When viewed along with being able to retire at 50 it's really good money.
We're talking clerks who do things like enter data into computer from big stack of forms that people filled out, or file things, etc. it's not a difficult job and I doubt you can in any way prove they work harder than anyone else in the office. - vbullinger, on 07/20/2009, -0/+2Then again, this is S.F. They probably never have fires and the worst "crimes" committed are probably just people throwing away recyclables :)
- waytoomuchcoffe, on 07/20/2009, -0/+2Fire/Police got these amazing pensions with a ballot measure after 9/11. For all of those saying how the govt. is ripping off the taxpayers, guess what, *they voted for it*. In any case, most of the rest of the City pensions are not that great, and probably won't be getting any better since there are stories like this out there.
- steelclash84, on 07/20/2009, -1/+3Pensions used to be a good deal for government and businesses for their employees. It encouraged stability in making workers want to stay with a particular company instead of jumping around. However, it because a giant hole in the financial pockets since more people are living longer in retirement than ever before. Pensions have the same problem with social security in this regard. The system is designed to pay out only for a few years, because it is assumed a retired person won't live for much longer on these systems.
Now that people are able to retire at 62-64 and live well into their 80s or even 90s, that's 20-30 years of pension payments that were originally designed for maybe 5-10 years. - jserio, on 07/20/2009, -0/+2jerryjamesstone needs to learn how to compose a good, informative, description. He leaves out the first sentence/paragraph of the story that says the number of people currently receiving pensions is 709, but he includes the second paragraph which throws out numbers (229 and 124) which are only decipherable with the knowledge form that first sentence. So the average Digger (who doesn't read the story) is left to guess what the 229 and 124 mean... is it 229%? 124K? Wtf?!
Yeah, it's Monday. - Tenareth, on 07/20/2009, -4/+6Don't work for an American company... English/Dutch have better benefits.
- inactive, on 07/20/2009, -0/+2i buried your lame ass stupid comment.
- twiztidsinz, on 07/20/2009, -3/+5"You do realize that Bush doesn't approve the budget for the City of San Francisco, right?"
So you're saying Bush had nothing to do with this, KINDA LIKE HOW OBAMA HAD EVEN LESS TO DO WITH THIS SINCE IT HAPPENED BEFORE HE TOOK OFFICE?? - grovest4life, on 07/20/2009, -0/+2Really you have a problem with civil servants doing well after retirement, it may be hard to grasp but Police and Firefighters probably earn many times over what we are able to pay them. But go a head and attack the little guys while the Ceo's and sports stars rake in more and more money while contributing little to society and the division between the upper class and the common man grows greater by the year. But i guess everyone on digg hates cops I will agree there are some bad ones and our system need fixed but the majority of them are honest, work a thankless job and often live a dangerous job of going from domestic dispute to domestic dispute. I agree the drug war is a failure and a waste of resources but blame your politicians for that they write the laws.
- randomface, on 07/20/2009, -0/+2I can do something personally about people that work for companies that make fortunes, and the government can rein them in if they are ripping people off, but when the government rips someone off or is spending out of control, who can rein them in?
- ralphthemagi, on 07/20/2009, -0/+2Completely agree. I go into work every day and sit in an office; and if I do my job right, create funny advertising and cool websites. A firefighter goes into burning buildings, and if he or she does his or her job right, doesn't die.
Cops get a gun. It's a different set of incentives. A lot of cops don't become cops because they want to help people, they become cops because they want to be figures of authority, and want to have a gun. I don't mean to belittle it by any means, and most of them face the same kind of, if not more, imminent danger on a daily basis. I just have far more respect for someone who decides that they are going to make it their job to go into burning buildings, especially in a city that is susceptible to earthquakes, and homes that are old, falling apart, and painted with lead paint. Seriously, you almost have to be ***** insane to want to be a firefighter in San Francisco. - mgraves81, on 07/20/2009, -2/+4@Rotzooi
What is with your non-sensical threads? I see them everywhere. Saying a city is liberal doesn't mean someone is implying that it's "full of them gay homosexuals." Your response was rather childish if you ask me. - grovest4life, on 07/20/2009, -0/+1I can understand how you could think that but this pay is not unreasonable for civil servants and i think your anger is miss directed. The real waste is the INS, DEA, BATF, Homeland security and the TSA just look what low pay and appealing to the lowest common denominator has gotten us for the illusion of airport security.
- mgraves81, on 07/20/2009, -2/+3You do realize that Bush doesn't approve the budget for the City of San Francisco, right? Our Presidents would be rather busy if they had to spend their days allocating every dollar for every city's employees and retirees.
- obliviousfool, on 07/20/2009, -0/+1Hey. At least SS didn't get privatized like Georgie wanted.
- Y0tsuya, on 07/20/2009, -0/+1When ***** hits the fan, SF should take Vallejo's lead and declare bankruptcy, and use the opportunity to rework the labor and retirement contracts for leaner times ahead.
- davmattucci, on 07/20/2009, -0/+1I'd rather it going to retired cops and firefighters than to AIG, Bear Steanrs, or any of those terd sandwiches. The same is true of pro athletes... everyone bitches that they don't deserve that kind of cash and that men and women working for the public do, right? Well if San Francisco can pay them, then great. Is some of it corrupt city politics, probably... but what's really pure these days anyway?
- mgraves81, on 07/20/2009, -2/+3@twiztidsinz
Who said anything about Obama? Sheesh, contain yourself.
If you really think the President(s), whether it be Bush, Obama, Clinton, or anyone who fills the office in the future controls every single thing in this nation then I feel sorry for you. Clearly you skipped a few of your Gov't/Civics/Poli Sci classes.
Thanks for the caps lock though. You really drilled home that completely irrelevant statement. - chockster, on 07/20/2009, -1/+2"These are the people that climb into burning buildings to make sure your children get out safely, I don't understand how they don't earn atleast twice as much as they do already."
While I agree with you, why the cop hate? These are the people that face down armed criminals to make sure your family doesn't get killed in a bank raid. I know they don't do that every day, but neither do firefighters ensure your children's safety every day. All of the emergency services are invaluable. - obliviousfool, on 07/20/2009, -2/+3They have to be able to afford to live in S.F., right?
- Nimda11, on 07/21/2009, -0/+1nah a single person can live in SF nicely for around 50K
- youareretarded, on 07/20/2009, -0/+1lol
What is that? A mad cow? - kingmanic, on 07/20/2009, -0/+1It varies. 45k*inflation may be the most they'll ever make if they have no other ambition and thats the top of their pay grade. at 28 without education it means they would have been there for 8-10 years? Seems alright, 8-10 years of experience at a job for 45k. What I'm saying is it's not inordinate compensation. Depending on the area 45k is either a decent wage or working poor wage(parts of California). In my area of Canada you can make 50k by doing any job in the oil patch. I have acquaintances who dropped out of high school who made 100-120k a year as labour in the oil patch. I make a shade over 50k after 5 years in university but thats fine. They have a expiration date on their jobs (can't do labor forever) while I don't. They have 5h commutes and brutal dirty work. I sit in a office sipping diet coke while I figure out why Microsoft hates me.
Over here 50k is a good decent middle to upper middle class wage. - oldhick, on 07/20/2009, -0/+1Alright kingnova, I will grant you that there are some decent folks trying to make a living. I'll grant you I painted with a wide brush there and that was unfair. Point taken.
Bureaucracies are nasty entities. We need less, not more. If you feel differently, than it is YOU who needs to look at how far you have gone. - homercles337, on 07/20/2009, -1/+2Cost of living in LA versus SF is quite different. I would not want to live in SF making less than $100k.
- 4AntiStupid, on 07/20/2009, -0/+1Not that magic 6-digts! Those evil rich people! They should have all their stuff confiscated!
- easyperson, on 07/20/2009, -0/+1Misleading title
- lohphat, on 07/20/2009, -0/+1Try looking at Palo Alto's gravy train. Work for the city for 5-6 years and get lifetime medical.
- zomgflamer, on 07/20/2009, -0/+1Does your wife work overtime? Kingmanic these civil servants make money on overtime, sometimes double.
- zomgflamer, on 07/20/2009, -0/+1Cops get to make "friends" if you know what I mean.
- babyheadout, on 07/20/2009, -0/+1Hans Gruber: They're usually tired and burned out old policemen growing fat on a pension... This is... something else.
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Show 51 - 71 of 71 discussions
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