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Rich People Flock to Inner City, Poor Move to Suburbs

tnr.com — Chicago is gradually coming to resemble a traditional European city--Vienna or Paris in the nineteenth century, or, for that matter, Paris today. The poor and the newcomers are living on the outskirts. The people who live near the center--some of them black or Hispanic but most of them white--are those who can afford to do so.

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  • Hobbsies, on 08/04/2008, -2/+72It's been like that a long time. The nice neighborhoods are near the lake, obviously, but as you go farther and farther west, the income level declines pretty fast.

    The scariest parts though are when you cross a street where on one side are nice upper-middle class homes, and on the other is a ghetto. I'm not joking. Once you cross a street called division at certain parts, it does just this. The famous Cabrini Green is located right next to a lot of REALLY nice homes. Chicago is also one of the most segregated cities in the US.
    • Hetman, on 08/04/2008, -0/+12I agree. I live close to division. From what I hear of the 80s, and early 90s though the entire community there has been getting better. But you are right Cabrini Green is on one side of the road, and million dollar town houses our right across the street. There is also only 2 building left in Cabrini Green and I hear one is condemmed. It will not be long before the last one is gone.
    • Jayg28, on 08/05/2008, -0/+13Cabrini Green has been almost completely torn down.
    • charlief1975, on 08/05/2008, -0/+5I live on the good side of Division. I've been here long enough to see Cabrini Green go down. But the building where they filmed Candyman is still up.
    • Jergens, on 08/05/2008, -2/+16Ha! I'll take your Chicago and raise you a Detroit!
    • Donwangugi, on 08/05/2008, -0/+9I agree with Jergens. I am not familiar with Chicago, but from what you said, and from what i read in this article, this it much better than the segregation that can found in Detroit. Even with these divisions, it still means that poor people and rich people are living in city centers.

      Detroit on the other hand, is the complete opposite There is a donut separating a square mile of downtown form the suburbs where you will not find any wealthy people, only the poor, and this is a large blighted donut. THAT is segregation. The only time rich or middle class people go through that area is when they drive on the highways to downtown.
    • Klisk, on 08/05/2008, -0/+2Sounds identical to the NYC/North Jersey situation, honestly.
      • Temo1, on 08/05/2008, -0/+2That's not at all the same. There's parts of NYC that are ghetto and parts that are million-dollar appartments, and parts of North Jersey that are all rich suburbs surrounding ghettos.
      • Klisk, on 08/06/2008, -0/+1The rich suburbs are pretty much gone. It's mostly ghettos now, while NYC is getting rid of their ghettos and becoming more exclusive -- So rich people from NJ are flocking to NYC, and the people left in NJ are getting mugged and their homes broken into. At least in north jersey. Middle/south jersey is entirely different. I would LOVE to live in Red Bank. Unfortunately I'm stuck in Paterson. Fun. Greatest part about being here is that -- If you can't afford to drive -- You can't take public transportation, either. Because there really is none, and what there is is horrible. It takes a good 3 hours to get to a 15 minute destination considering how many ~bus transfers~ you're required to do. Likewise at that point gas would of been cheaper.
    • AROZ, on 08/05/2008, -0/+3It's been happening in Toronto too for decades.
    • theutopian, on 08/05/2008, -4/+7My wife and I gave living in Chicago a go when we relocated there for a job. We knew it would be expensive but we had no idea how expensive it would actually be. We spent so much money just trying to live that we never had any money to enjoy the perks of living in the city. We were paying nearly $1000 a month for a 1 bedroom apartment that you could spit across. When our lease was up, I got a new job and we got the hell out of there back to spacious Indiana. Now we pay $1000 a month for a 3 bedroom house, full basement and a huge ass yard. We enjoyed Chicago more not living there.
      • tomarocco, on 08/05/2008, -0/+13$1000 for a 1 bedroom apartment? That is pretty much entry-level on the West Coast. You're lucky to get a decent studio for that in a desirable neighborhood.
      • strictnein, on 08/05/2008, -2/+9A huge ass-yard?
      • tcpip4lyfe, on 08/05/2008, -0/+2I can't believe how much the cost of living various from place to place. I live in Cedar Rapids, Iowa and I pay about $600 for all my utilities and rent in a 1 bedroom, decent sized apartment in a 26 floor apartment building downtown. If you don't mind historic floods and living in Iowa, it's a great place to live.
      • AROZ, on 08/06/2008, -0/+1But if you're paying the same amount for your highest expense, how are you better off? Now you still can't enjoy the perks of Chicago. And because you live in suburbia, it is likely difficult to save money by walking or cycling to businesses and shops.
    • RadiatedAnt, on 08/05/2008, -0/+2I like to think that Grand Ave. is the dividing line. for the west side.
    • sofaKing812, on 08/05/2008, -0/+1The UChicago campus is just like that too.
  • yellowcakewalk, on 08/04/2008, -0/+33It's a phenomenon here in DC as well. Expensive condos going up downtown, low income folks driven further and further out into the burbs.
    • Typhoon2009, on 08/05/2008, -0/+6Yup, gentrification. 10 years ago, you probably wouldn't see anyone medium-high income (especially white) on U Street. Now they're putting up really nice apartments and condos. Meanwhile, the poor who can't afford it are pushed into SE or into Maryland.
    • Gndoab, on 08/05/2008, -2/+10I grew up in Montgomery County, the wealthy MD suburb to the north of DC, and I have to say, the difference in mindset between my parents and I is astounding. I love DC, and they fear it like the plague. They love the suburbs, and I hate them as fake, resource wasting, time consuming places of the McMansion.
      • spiltmilkblog, on 08/05/2008, -1/+2Hey, *high five* from a fellow brat from MoCo!
      • PhilliesBlunt, on 08/05/2008, -1/+3Howard County Brats > Monkey County Brats :)
    • andy3109, on 08/05/2008, -2/+4Is it hard to understand why? You guys are making this seem like a mystery. The highest demand housing is where the business districts are. I sure as hell would pay an extra 20-30% in rent so I could walk to work. And U street used to be a government enforced price ceiling dump. Maybe people can soon walk down U street at night feeling safe.
      • peestandingup, on 08/05/2008, -0/+1"Maybe people can soon walk down U street at night feeling safe."

        You can do that now. I've never felt in danger walking down U. Now, I wouldnt wanna go past say the 11th block.
      • andy3109, on 08/05/2008, -0/+1Then I guess you can't completely walk down U street :).
      • Typhoon2009, on 08/05/2008, -0/+1Yeah, past 11th street it starts looking a little sketchy. Some parts on Rhode Island Avenue are nice though. There are also a few nicer areas in Southeast, but those are areas close to Central DC... get deeper towards PG county and it's not so nice.
    • thisguy457, on 08/05/2008, -0/+3Yeah, the new baseball stadium in anacostia seems to be having the same effect that the verizon (mci) center did too... even though nobody watches the nats.
      • lsatkins, on 08/05/2008, -0/+1They're not doing that bad in home attendance...#16 in the league. I was there Sunday for the game and there was easily over 30k.
      • thisguy457, on 08/05/2008, -0/+1Oh awesome! That's pretty good seeing how I'm one of the 38 people who are watching them on TV - nice to see we're represented somehow. Home attendance is the best anyways...

        I miss DC.
      • solodan1000, on 08/05/2008, -0/+1As a Washingtonian, the nationals are helping the local economy and giving people many good jobs. Plus their new stadium is so nice :)
    • kreneec, on 08/05/2008, -1/+1My husband and I just moved from the DC area and I agree wholeheartedly with all of you. I worked right across the street from Union Station, but lived in Maryland. It's crazy how much it costs to live in DC!
    • fishrjv, on 08/05/2008, -2/+2Your money goes so much further 15 minutes outside of DC, and you can find some very nice places for low rent (relatively speaking). I'm saving hundreds of dollars on rent just by living in Virginia, but right next to DC.
      • Nudar, on 08/05/2008, -0/+1I saved hundreds of dollars on my car insurance by switching to Geico.
    • ZenMojo, on 08/05/2008, -0/+1People act like they've never heard of "White Flight."

      History and sociology lesson: Minorities are far more comfortable with high percentages of whites and other minorities than whites are comfortable with high percentages of minorities (this is any minority group, a non-specific racial comfort level).

      Suburbs were created to give whites a place to live away from minorities moving to the cities looking for work. As minorities grew more and more affluent, they started moving to nicer neighborhoods, the suburbs. The response is that whites were moving to rural areas and towns to get even further away.

      Gentrification has effectively "whitened" these urban neighborhoods, not so much by simply improving them but by buying up the apartment complexes and community center properties, demolishing them, and raising the price so that only very wealthy individuals could afford to live there. Those at the top of the economic scale, usually whites, were the only ones capable of affording it.

      Rest assured, as wealthy minorities start moving into those improved neighborhoods, the proportion of whites to minorities will shift and wealthy whites will flee their wealthy minority neighbors.

      Prosperous black communities like Baldwin Hills in Los Angeles were formed the exact same way, upscale neighborhoods that experienced fleeing white populations leaving minorities behind.

      The irony of this all is, supply and demand literally kills property values due to racism but means racism is not always the only driving force. No matter how good the access and the infrastructure, a minority-heavy neighborhood will have lower property values than a "separate-but-equal" all-white neighborhood. So white people concerned about home value have to "get out while the getting's good" even if they're comfortable around minorities.
      • mrraven200, on 08/06/2008, -0/+1"So white people concerned about home value have to "get out while the getting's good" even if they're comfortable around minorities."

        Or not if you see a house as place to live and not a cash cow. The whole flipping houses and constant moving phenomena has not only created tremendous suffering and even even homelessness for the poor through gentrification forcing people out, but stress and a rootless emptiness for the constantly moving rich. Time to start seeing our houses as dwelling places again and not mere abstract investments. Peak oil may force our hands on this one BTW.
  • noblestrife, on 08/04/2008, -6/+51Chicago: My middle-income folks live on the west side, where you can buy a gallon of milk, a McDonald's meal, and a handful of candy for under $10. Travel just 10 miles east towards downtown and everything skyrockets. Walgreens boosts the price of milk a good buck higher, and McDonalds charge two dollars more for every meal.
    I'm a struggling artist and can't afford to rent a place downtown; there are no studio apts, while rent for 1 bedrooms cost over $1300 a month. What used to be Chicago's artist mecca (Lincoln Park) is now completely yuppified, with rent for a tiny studio costing upwards of $800. Wicker Park is the size of a blemish and teeming with expensive family condos. So what are we left with? Places that the CTA doesn't serve properly, or neighborhoods that shut down at 9pm, still crime-ridden, and racially hostile (hi, Logan Square and Ukraine Village!).

    I love Chicago, but we are rapidly heading towards (as per the comment section) "becoming a cultural vacant lot."
    • salomejones, on 08/05/2008, -0/+5I lived in Chicago for many years, and was not happy until I moved up to Buena Park. Sure, its a little dicey, but its cheap, the apartments are big, and its pretty cool. I hear Roger's Park has gotten a bit more expensive, but if you're willing to deal with the ***** on Morse, you're in the middle of a sea of artists and musicians, and a short walk to both Ennui (if its still there) and Graceland (if its still there).
      • AJoseph, on 08/05/2008, -0/+1Ennui is still there, I walked by it the other day.
    • BonersMilloy, on 08/05/2008, -0/+13I remember when you could buy a handful of candy for a nickel!
    • andy3109, on 08/05/2008, -2/+11It's a hard problem to remedy noblestrife. People who will pay more money and pay more taxes than you demand housing downtown. Many of them aren't struggling artists who have steady high income and in many ways they deserve having the luxury of living downtown because of that. It is tough to swallow but you may have to live with the fact that downtown chicago isn't affordable for your chosen career path.
      • mrraven200, on 08/06/2008, -0/+1Yeah the weak get stomped and tough luck, huh? Hint some of us are getting angry enough to FIGHT back. Watch your backs rich *****!
      • andy3109, on 08/06/2008, -0/+1go to school. I'm not a charity. Earn your own living.
      • mrraven200, on 08/06/2008, -0/+1I am earning my living doing hard physical work. I am quite certain I could not only kick but crush your ass and leave you paralyzed for life exploitation defending weanie.
      • andy3109, on 08/07/2008, -0/+1Wow...you sound like a 5 year old. Now wonder you are forced to perform hard physical labor. Labor that forces you to live outside of downtown cities. The only way you can live inside of downtown cities is through charity...which I am not going to give you...but the government might, which I guess is that same as me giving it to you.
    • misterjangles, on 08/05/2008, -0/+8Noble strife, you must not have been to the city in a while! The artists moved out of Lincoln park over 30 years ago. Wicker park is trying to hang onto it's artist community, but it's gotten pretty yuppified in the past 10 years. The musicians and artists have mostly headed to Logan Square, Humbolt Park and Pilsen. You'd be right to say those places are still a little rough around the edges, but that's where the young people are going and so cool shops and clubs are popping up. You should go check those neighborhoods out, you'd be blown away. Chicago is changing so fast it's crazy.
      • DuffyDirect, on 08/05/2008, -0/+5same with the village in NYC -- it's wannabe NYU hipsters (parents with net worths 250k+), rent control old dirty hippies, and legions of artless affluent people living vicariously through their neighborhoods.
    • Jiveon, on 08/05/2008, -1/+4Agree with jangles - Noble doesn't know what he/she is talking about, Lincoln Park an artists community??? heh, that's nuts, sure it's super yuppified, whatever, people want to live in neighborhoods that aren't full of jerks and garbage and where they can raise their kids, I don't blame them. I've lived all over this city and it's a great town with plenty of affordable places to live for artists and musicians and whomever. Jangles is right - Pilsen is the place to be if you want to be a part of the cities most vibrant arts community. But really, get outside of Chicago a little - it's amazingly cheap to rent nice big places here relative to NYC, SF and LA, there really is no comparison. I live in Wicker Park in a two bedroom place that has a fireplace, mod cons, nice big kitchen, good light, etc., and is all around pretty nice, less than 1.5 blocks from the park and is $1300. Try finding anything near that in any of the states big cities.
    • mdoverkill, on 08/05/2008, -0/+5I live in Ukranian Village; The rent is reasonable and its a nice neighborhood, the CTA thing is spot on though.


    • Nameloc, on 08/05/2008, -0/+1ukranian village and logan square are not that bad. Crime ridden is the true west side (humbolt park, garfield park, lawndale, little village)
    • LunaticWing, on 08/05/2008, -0/+0A lot of the cost spike can be attributed to Cook county, more than anything. I live out in McHenry county and I commute to the Loop every day, and nearly everything is more expensive in the city.

      And I'm not sure that's unique to Chicago. I'm fairly certain that if you went to Manhattan (I've never been) you'll be looking at prices far higher than anything in Chicago.
  • gothsquirrel, on 08/05/2008, -9/+3Its just a fad every city goes through this, except new york where it is eternally like this.
    • ieee, on 08/05/2008, -1/+11Its not a fad. Cities have historically had the rich people in close to all the things people want and the poor further out. That changed for a blip in history in the US after WW II with the construction of suburbia.
  • AriaStar, on 08/05/2008, -2/+27See, the inner city areas are closer to the jobs. Used to be you wanted to live away from where you work so you can be somewhere quiet and relax. Now that travel costs so damned much, everyone wants to save, and those who can afford to do it best are those who can afford to spare the most. This "trend" in Chicago isn't at all surprising.
    • MixMastaKooz, on 08/05/2008, -0/+1Actually, one thing I've noticed when traveling to Chicago is that there's a reverse rush hour: instead of the rush to leave the city to get home, people rush from the suburbs (where their job is) to go home downtown. Yes there's still a "normal" rush hour, but this reverse rush is kind of fascinating.
  • borez, on 08/05/2008, -1/+57Happened in London in the 80's, my advice, buy the most run down but structurally intact building you can find just outside of the zone, wait a couple of years, then profit big time.
    • josethegeek, on 08/05/2008, -12/+2Wow, that is the best advice I've heard in my life. Wait, isn't this common knowledge. Or is knowledge not that common anymore?
    • Barackalypse, on 08/05/2008, -1/+17I think that's called speculation and I don't think that it has been working out real well in Phoenix, California, and Florida these last few years.
      • carpespasm, on 08/05/2008, -1/+11Nah, the trend in those places was to plow down such buildings, then build 15 cramped houses out of the cheapest material that's quickly assemblable and tell the new "home owners" that their new $200k+ stucco and particle board house will never lose value and never point out that living 50 miles from work might be something other than utterly fantastic. Turns out that burning 300 dollars a week in your hummer to and from work in a traffic jam with thousands of similar idiots isn't quite the relaxed living experience the billboards made it out to be.

        I live in Jacksonville, Fla and it amazed me to see signs advertising homes in Georgia 50-75 miles from downtown Jacksonville in the middle of town here. They're still advertising those homes now, just with "1990's prices" since people have somewhat wised up.
      • mike17032, on 08/05/2008, -1/+4It only works if you buy a cheap run down place and fix it up. Paying a half million for a garage isnt the way to make a big profit.
      • spaceshipsix, on 08/05/2008, -0/+0The location is more expensive than what's on it. If it's in a place where property value is increasing it doesn't matter what's in the lot.
    • Nudar, on 08/05/2008, -0/+1More than 40 percent of London is non-White so it hasn't quite worked as you said.
  • Burgoo, on 08/05/2008, -0/+11Vancouver has been like this for ages.
    • DarthDiabetes, on 08/05/2008, -0/+6Vancouver has its pockets of expensive 'burbs though.
      North Vancouver, West Vancouver, White Rock, parts of Richmond.
    • osama1234, on 08/05/2008, -0/+2I wouldn't agree entirely with burgoo, because i think there has been an effect on downtown's demographic from the recent building boom.

      What i mean is that I dont THINK it was as extreme as it is now, especially when you consider all the hullabaloo about the gentrification of the DTeastside, which has further polarized the entire city of vancouver. (in terms of where the rich live, and where the poor live)

      I may be wrong however, its just the feeling i get.

      Also there seems to be a lot of development in the outer burbs, like surrey, langley, abbotsford with thorougly expensive prices. So again, i have troubles thinking of vancouver being (currently and historically) that downtown oriented.
  • diemunkiesdie, on 08/05/2008, -0/+16Who is surprised at this? Who did you think was living in those high-rise penthouse suites? The people who can afford it, of course!
    • misterjangles, on 08/05/2008, -0/+6Actually downtown Chicago (where the high-rises are) hasn't really changed that much. It's the neighborhoods near downtown that fell into disrepair in the 70's and 80's that turned into ghettos. Those neighborhoods have incredible old mansions that are being restored and/or torn down and converted into condos. The minority families who have been living there, mostly hispanic, are being displaced due to soaring property tax and rents.
  • damian7, on 08/05/2008, -15/+8Blacks move in, whites move out, blacks move in, whites move out, Mexicans move in, everybody out. Asian sets up a shop, whites move in. Jew buys the shop, everyone moves in
    • josethegeek, on 08/05/2008, -1/+2So our plan is working. Where do you live so I can send some family to live next to you, to get your sorry ass to move out. You relocated, we'll keep moving next to you, till you are living in the ocean.
      • damian7, on 08/05/2008, -1/+3I already currently live in the ocean. Nova Scotia. (technically an island)
      • josethegeek, on 08/05/2008, -2/+1Technically it still isn't in the water. We won't be happy until you are living on a boat. And even then, we'll get a boat next to you.
      • damian7, on 08/05/2008, -0/+2Yes, bring this country into the ground just like you destroyed Mexico
    • stagmire, on 08/05/2008, -0/+3"Mexicans move in, everybody out. "

      Actually, this isn't the case in Chicago. Mexicans have moved into black neighborhoods and chased the blacks out, but now white are moving into those neighborhoods and living alongside the mexicans (e.g. pilsen, logan square).
      • josethegeek, on 08/05/2008, -1/+1Wait, what is this whites moving into Mexican neighborhoods? I need to send more Mexicans to Chicago.
  • nuentendu, on 08/05/2008, -1/+3It's been this way for awhile now.
  • Jayg28, on 08/05/2008, -1/+16The sales tax in Chicago is now 10.25%, which is highest in the country I believe.
    • atact88, on 08/05/2008, -8/+215% in Washington, DC
    • Endit, on 08/05/2008, -0/+7That's insane! We shouldn't even have a sales tax.
    • jzuska, on 08/05/2008, -0/+4Why do you idiot's live there or in Mass, or Cali, throwing your income away and bitching about it at the same time.
    • DesdinovaEL, on 08/05/2008, -0/+1we have 8.25% in texas but no state income tax.
  • Andrew7, on 08/05/2008, -0/+20Somehow I dont see this becoming a huge thing where I live, Detroit.
    • drinktherhine, on 08/05/2008, -0/+1Yeah, I doubt it
      • Jergens, on 08/05/2008, -0/+1I live in Detroit, also. There is almost no possible way that this could happen here within the next 10-20 years. It would take a major change of leadership (gasp!) to even start a ball rolling in that direction.
      • Andrew7, on 08/05/2008, -0/+1Jergens,
        you're saying you don't like Kwame?!?!
        /s/
    • Donwangugi, on 08/05/2008, -0/+3I also do not see this happening in Los Angeles.
      • tomarocco, on 08/05/2008, -0/+2LA is an entirely different anomaly and it always will be.
    • banj0, on 08/05/2008, -0/+36 and Woodward looks like Malibu now. Nice Starbucks too.
    • MoneyShot, on 08/05/2008, -0/+10If anyone wants to see how sobering the situation is in Detroit, check out the prices on these homes: http://www.waynecounty.com/WCAuctions/Auction/

      You can literally buy a house in Detroit using a credit card.
    • Rainemaker, on 08/05/2008, -0/+1Born and raised in detroit. Moved out in the 90's. I had heard ***** got better after the casinos and superbowl came though. Looks like I heard wrong.
  • willdiggforfood, on 08/05/2008, -16/+3Only rich metrosexual, manicure-addicted yuppies and other kinds of Starbucks armchair philosopher/commandoes move to the inner city.
    Liberals can keep their smog.
    • salomejones, on 08/05/2008, -1/+8Wow, you're a real *****. I am none of those things, and I don't mind telling you that I wouldn't move to the burbs if you held a ***** gun to my head.
      • Jergens, on 08/05/2008, -2/+1And what city do you live in?
        It's all about Geography. I'm guessing you don't live in Detroit. Or Cincinatti. Or St. Louis. Or Kansas City.

        The problem with these articles is that they always point at the already metropolitan downtown cities, like Chicago, NYC, etc. Never do they point at this trend happening in say... Pittsburgh.
      • salomejones, on 08/05/2008, -0/+1I live in NYC, where I am from. I lived in Chicago for just shy of ten years, 8 years of it in bad neighborhoods. I went to college in Philadelphia and also lived in a bad neighborhood there.

        And you're right, Detroit, Cincinatti, St. Louis and Kansas City are entirely absent any sort of relevant art or music. And I do blame that on geography. The midwest has never exactly been a bastion of such things.
    • MonumentMan, on 08/05/2008, -0/+4living downtown = less gas, smaller apartment, walk to everything, etc. live smaller and greener.

      the day of the mcmansion has past. ive been living downtown all along now and would rather sacrifice living in a smaller apartment than moving to some soulless burb full of SUVs, no entertainment, and crackerjack morons.
  • airwalkery2k, on 08/05/2008, -3/+11All according to THE PLAN.
  • musicmanryan, on 08/05/2008, -1/+36Its called gentrification, and it is nothing new.
  • Newportbeachguy, on 08/05/2008, -5/+25Good. Now I can enjoy the fruits of the city; without the threat of being mugged.
    And if you don't agree, go to hell.
    • salomejones, on 08/05/2008, -9/+6Yes, enjoy those fruits. Unfortunately, none of them will be music or art, which tend to disappear along with poverty and crime for some reason. I'd rather face the threat of being mugged than wither away in a city with nothing in it but the same goddamn mesclun salad block after block.
      • RudeTurnip, on 08/05/2008, -2/+15Try saying that with a straight face when you have a family to raise and keep safe.
      • Newportbeachguy, on 08/05/2008, -0/+8You're a complete moron. Are really suggesting that if thugs leave the city we'll loose arts and music? When I say enjoy the fruits, I mean nice shops and festivities.
      • misterjangles, on 08/05/2008, -0/+4Having been through a couple of transitions myself, it seems there is a brief window of time where a neighborhood still has it's artistic culture, but the crime has been reduced to where you can enjoy yourself without fearing for your life. It is such a fragile balance, though, the golden age never seems to last very long.
      • mike17032, on 08/05/2008, -3/+5Ya thats a real hard ***** call.

        Take a bunch of useless poor art liberal hippies along with hard core street crime, or get rid of both and have tax paying job havers....

        Pretty easy ***** call in my book. I live in exactly this kind of area, where people with jobs (aka money) are starting to push the poor welfare criminals out. I am willing to bet you have never lived in a bad area, or you would see why its a great thing.
      • salomejones, on 08/05/2008, -1/+2@mike17032: That's very nice. So maybe art and music aren't for you. And, when I lived in Buena Park, Chicago, I lived in a building that was directly in front of the vacant lot that the Kings used to use as an execution field.

        So you're pretty much 100% wrong, but don't be surprised. Your lot generally is.
      • Jelfish, on 08/05/2008, -0/+1Make your own art and music. It's people with money who rush to live in the latest hip places who raise the rent and force them to find the next dirt-cheap place to live.
    • fasda, on 08/05/2008, -6/+3I see you already have the city attitude you'll fit in unless you move to NYC then you should go with ***** you ***** sucker
    • tomarocco, on 08/05/2008, -0/+1I think you're going to agree that I'm not kidding when I tell you it's your money or your life, Pal.
  • thegrantman, on 08/05/2008, -4/+34*****...now I'm gonna get mugged watering my suburban lawn.
  • brainscab, on 08/05/2008, -2/+17Chicago is one of the most self segregating places Ive ever lived.
    • Typhoon2009, on 08/05/2008, -0/+2There was something uncanny about it. I went there by train; coming in the more suburban parts I noticed a lot of poorer looking houses, with mostly black families. As I made it into downtown (near the Magnificent Mile) I noticed a LOT of higher economic class folks who were mostly white. This observation might've been increased because in DC there's actually a majority of blacks so you see them in many places. Gentrification also hasn't made quite as big an impact as in Chicago I guess.
    • unAntimatter, on 08/05/2008, -0/+5I honestly don't know where the ***** this idea came from, but I'll tell you, from my experience it is *****. I've lived in the city my whole life... my neighbor to the west is indian, to the south is a nice african american family, to the north are some fresh off da boat polskas, and to the east are a family of mexicanos. Racially segregated in certain areas... maybe, but you show me a city that ISN'T racially segregated in some way, and I'll call you a filthy liar.
    • Shivetya, on 08/05/2008, -2/+2The whole midwest is.

      I have lived in Illinois, Ohio, and now Georgia, and I can honestly state there were more bigots and out right racists in the midwest.
      • FiendishMuffin, on 08/05/2008, -0/+1I think segregation exists everywhere to some extent, but having grown up in Missouri and moving to Baltimore, I can say without a doubt Missouri has far less racial tension. In one year of living in Baltimore, I've been spit on, cursed at and threatened... there's a lot of ignorance out east too.

        -And Georgia isn't the midwest. I consider that "the south," and let's face it, the south invented segregation. And hush puppies.
    • beloitpiper, on 08/05/2008, -0/+1Milwaukee is the most segregated city in the US.
  • osko2052, on 08/05/2008, -1/+4I think one of the reasons that Chicago has become the way it is is because it is really just small neighborhoods all put together into one big city. It could be the one reason why it has turned out that way.
    • VetGamerRo, on 08/05/2008, -1/+4"it is really just small neighborhoods all put together into one big city"

      Umm, I think that is pretty much what Suburbs are.
  • amjustice, on 08/05/2008, -5/+5Poor people in the suburbs of Chicago, HA. Apparently the author of this has never been to Yuppieville, USA aka Naperville, IL
    • noblestrife, on 08/05/2008, -0/+5And apparently, you've never been to Norridge or Cicero, suburbs CLOSER to Chicago.
      • stagmire, on 08/05/2008, -1/+4Or even more remote suburbs like Glendale Heights, Bellwood, Stone Park, and Villa Park. which have endless ghettos.

        Naperville isn't really suburb anyway. It's too far out there and it has too much of its own thing going on. It's also a ***** of a city and I would rather commit sepukku than live in that boring ass festering yuppie dump.
      • victorc26, on 08/05/2008, -0/+3Naperville is depressingly quiet.

        I haven't been there in a while (Fox Valley Mall), but every time I would go there, I was actually thankful that I lived in the City. In the city, you feel like you're a part of something big, in suburbs like Naperville, you just feel alone. *shiver*.

        You can say what you want about Chicago, I live on the South side myself (Not as bad as you think, everybody expects to be mugged if they wander into the South Side for some reason) and work on the North side, but you have to agree that Chicago, and any city for that matter is, although stressful at times, exciting.
      • DuffyDirect, on 08/05/2008, -0/+2Yeah there's a lot of rich in the south suburbs actually... look at Tinley, Orland, etc. very nice places to live!
      • stagmire, on 08/05/2008, -0/+2South suburbs != the South Side. I just moved to Hyde Park and like it very much.
      • saikyan, on 08/05/2008, -0/+1Villa Park is an endless ghetto? Hahahhah!!

        You've never really seen "the ghetto" have you?
  • judicar, on 08/05/2008, -4/+22Fish don't fry in the kitchen,
    Beans don't burn on the grill.
    Took a whole lotta tryin'
    Just to get up that hill.
    Now we're up in the big leagues,
    Gettin' our turn at bat!
    As long as we live,
    It's you and me, baby!
    There ain't nothin' wrong with that!
    Hooray, We're Movin' on Up!
    Movin' on Up!
    • xanadu2113, on 08/05/2008, -0/+2old nelly oh my
    • spiltmilkblog, on 08/05/2008, -0/+4Thanks for getting that stuck in my head.
    • garrettsdiggs, on 08/05/2008, -0/+1LOL Nelly... That's The Jeffersons kiddo


      DYN-O-MITE!
  • jumanous, on 08/05/2008, -6/+1Reminds me of the days when the rich had their lead bathes, and all became brain damaged. The same thing will happen with the inner city people breathing in all that garbage. Sad really. Will be interesting to see how long it takes for all cars to be banned from inner cities to prevent this.
    • VetGamerRo, on 08/05/2008, -0/+4You don't need a car in the city, and that's kind of the point. Haven't you noticed what's going on with the price of gas these days? DING DING DING.
  • chmcarro, on 08/05/2008, -1/+4You mean it costs more to live in the city? No wai
    • spaceshipsix, on 08/05/2008, -0/+0The point is it's getting worse. The past 50 years inner cities were more or less crap. Now wealthy people are moving back. Gas prices?
  • batmanz, on 08/05/2008, -1/+13Inner city life, inner city pressure...
    • rjb696, on 08/05/2008, -0/+5inner city pressure!
    • NerdzCo, on 08/05/2008, -0/+8The concrete world is startin to getcha
    • bcos, on 08/05/2008, -0/+3*old lady walking behind them* Inner City Pressure!
    • saikyan, on 08/05/2008, -0/+2The manager, Bevin, starts to abuse me... Hey man, I just want some musley.
  • italics, on 08/05/2008, -0/+8NYC? Manhattan is filled with rich white people while others flock to the outer boroughs for affordable housing. In the future I see the island as the new Disney World, filled with only bright lights, tourists, castles and giant mouses.
    • DuffyDirect, on 08/05/2008, -0/+2have you ever seen the movie soylent green? It'll probably end up a lot like that with manhattan being the rich people fortress thingy!
    • bxblox, on 08/05/2008, -0/+4And now they are trying to rename all the harlem and south bronx neighborhoods to make them sound more "hip" so they can fill them with million dollar one bedroom condos. WTF is SoBro?
    • jerryterhorst, on 08/05/2008, -0/+2new york already has one of those, but they're called "rats".
    • iamchewy, on 08/05/2008, -1/+1The word that you're looking for is "mice".
  • yourmanstan, on 08/05/2008, -6/+14 pages to explain the obvious. BURY.
  • tankdilla, on 08/05/2008, -0/+3My grandmother lives down the street from Mt. Sinai Hospital and across the street from a park in Chicago, and they've been trying to force her out for years. The whole block area around the park has changed over the past 20 years. There are new looking townhouses interspersed with the old buildings that are have been there, and the new townhouses cost a ton. Being down the street from the hospital, they're marketed to doctors.
    • funktimus, on 08/05/2008, -0/+7Ha, make sure she just hangs onto that *****. Not even for the money, but just to piss off those developers.
  • mcla0181, on 08/05/2008, -16/+2Do not compare Chicago to Paris or Vienna. Obviously, this moron is a ***** idiot who thinks population economics is grounds for comparison between the ***** whole of chicago and... Paris ... Vienna...? Chicago is the armpit.... the stink ***** factory of the midwest... Vous êtes un enfant de bulle emprisonné par votre propre ignorance. Go babel fish that...
    • fasda, on 08/05/2008, -0/+3well since you like foreign languages how about "fress Sheisse und streb" but by since German is rusty eat ***** and die
    • DuffyDirect, on 08/05/2008, -0/+2Vienna is beautiful... but I have to admit it always makes me uncomfortable in Europe to be in cities where there aren't blacks all over the place. It makes me feel like a fish out of the water, it's the strangest thing.
  • deusny, on 08/05/2008, -15/+2***** you, two of my friends died taking a *****
  • Barackalypse, on 08/05/2008, -1/+17That doesn't bode well for mass transit, does it? The people near it won't use it, and the people that need it are dispersed too far from it to be practical.
  • DannyBoy7783, on 08/05/2008, -1/+1I have recently lived in Albany and now live in Troy, NY. Not major cities by any means...but the division of "rich" and "poor" is almost on a block by block basis in some places. One block south of Washington Park in Troy it turns into crap housing. But that park is one of two privately owned parks in the country. The owners are the people living in all the hoity toity houses surrounding it. Amazing how cities evolve over time.
    • DuffyDirect, on 08/05/2008, -1/+3hey there neighbor! i go to SUNY and live 20 minutes from albany... very depressing place. its amazing how much theyre doing to fund all this nanotech business and all this nonsense and literally doing nothing to help the urban poor. i avoided the bad "neighborhoods" (aka single city blocks surrounded by nice row houses) all my life and just stuck to the highway, but a couple of summers ago i drove through a bad couple of blocks around where my sister in law's brother (firefighter) worked and died a little on the inside. drug dealers everywhere, plain in sight of kids playing outside in the summer heat, houses falling apart, no police presence, no good public transit except the (IMO) terrible CDTA buses, no hope... it's very sad. honestly the city doesnt deserve any kind of prosperity if it allows its weak and needy to just flounder like that.
    • Jelfish, on 08/05/2008, -0/+1Troy is not really a good example in my opinion because really, all of the housing started as crap and some of them were repaired. I lived in Troy for a few years and every apartment I lived in and visited was crappy to some extent. Some of them might have had new floors or new appliances, but you can tell they are structurally decrepit. Troy is one of the few cities that I think is in that sort of delicate balance where it's still kind of run down and cheap to live, the neighborhood is not too unsafe, there are still some mom and pop stores, and there's a pretty neat culture (flag day celebration, Victorian stroll, Troy Night Out, rustic pubs, diverse restaurants, etc.). Though the weather kind of sucks, and there might be little excitement at night if you can't get to Albany, Troy is a pretty cool place to live.
  • spiderman222, on 08/05/2008, -1/+9I dunno about Atlanta. I stayed in downtown Atlanta a year ago. On my walk right through the middle of downtown everyday, I was like the only white guy. Plus at night, everything was shut down...meaning everyone departed the downtown areas...except for homeless people - of course they came out at night - mostly black. Vancouver on the other hand...yeah, probably the best downtown in North America.
    • AROZ, on 08/05/2008, -0/+5Atlanta seems hopeless in this regard.
    • ancientshoes, on 08/05/2008, -1/+2atlanta is majority black, so it doesn't matter where you go your the minority.
    • tekayfotuwan, on 08/05/2008, -0/+2I love living in downtown Vancouver. With the possible exception of the DTES (DownTown East Side), it's totally safe any time day or night and completely walkable.
    • MariettaMama, on 08/05/2008, -0/+3Well i can speak from Experience. I do live in OTP Atlanta aka Marietta. I've lived in this Metroplex all my life. Yes the rich live out here in the suburbs and work downtown or around the suburbs. Lately though, we have had an urbanization movement where its just as expensive to live in town as it is to live outside the city limits.
  • imightbewrong, on 08/05/2008, -0/+4this good be a good thing in terms of crime. When lots of poor people live together it creates markets for drugs, corners to deal on and so forth. But in a mixed socio-economic society, less kids will get into the drug game and poor families will benefit from the cheaper prices of the suburbs
  • pennvneff, on 08/05/2008, -1/+8Only in Chicago will you find a living situation so ***** up that they invented a new term for it, "Hypersegregation."
    • unAntimatter, on 08/05/2008, -0/+4Drive down western and north and tell me that... million dollar condo next to section 8 housing? Quit recycling this hyper segregation bull *****, walk out of your little world you've built for yourself and see it how it really is...
  • jcm267, on 08/05/2008, -3/+6This ties in with the whole "kids don't like to go outside anymore" thing. Cities are great, but overrated. I'll take the country life over the city life any day of the week.

    But yeah... everyone please move to the cities. That leaves more space on the outskirts for people like me. We have enough McMansion-dwelling city people living out here as it is.
    • misterjangles, on 08/05/2008, -0/+4Um... true the McMansion dwellers are leaving for the city. Unfortunately for you is that the people who are are being displaced are heading your way. So, that means say goodbye to baby strollers and say hello to graffiti and drugs. If you are truly living in the country, you may never see any of it, but if you're in a suburb, you may find yourself wishing those yuppies would come back.
      • jcm267, on 08/05/2008, -0/+1???? No. Those people won't be moving into any McMansions, misterjangles. If anything they'll be moving into the multifamily houses, ***** apartment buildings, and poorly (but recently) built condos in the nearby town of 38,000 that fancies itself as a city.

        I'm not in a suburb, more of an exurb location. Near the midpoint between 2 small and 2 medium sized metros, about 40-50 miles from each city. There will always be people who will want to live farther away, there will always be retirees, and there will be slight growth from local employers until the navy base and defense contractor leave or something. I just don't want my area to become a glorified suburb, and with the market the way it has been I can't blame any farmer for selling out and retiring.
  • vance880704, on 08/05/2008, -2/+0As u can see , this is a big problem going on in transitioanl period. The clash going on betwix poor ppl and rich ppl can cause such a catastrophy...in short, society disorder
    • Kyan, on 08/05/2008, -0/+1Fer xample, ppl frgtting to lern to spll.
  • piratearggghhh, on 08/05/2008, -0/+2This is basically reflective of a shift from a manucturing economy where cheap labor is needed in factories located in downtown, to one of services. In the past, there was a mix of immigrants in downtowns (immigrants looking for work lived close to factories), which caused a lot of imbalance of cultures and conflicts, leading to crime etc. so the rich moved out. Now they're coming back where they're the ones who are working downtown and the poor gets pushed out. I would love to live downtown in a loft but they're sooo expensive.
  • CrushThemTorg, on 08/05/2008, -2/+3Clearly we need some way to draw people of different incomes into cities – without a lower class foundation the overall health of the city will suffer because it will become far too expensive to commute in for some crappy McJob.

    Maybe giant, efficient tower blocks with publicly subsidized or funded housing designed by visionaries like Minoru Yamasaki or Le Corbusier*. Truly, this would be a great project.

    * I can't dump on Le Corbusier too much. His designs for public housing spawned a popular style of architecture.
    • DuffyDirect, on 08/05/2008, -1/+1no need -- rent control, long-time families who've owned their homes for generations, and illegal immigrants willing to live on top of each other (china town anyone???) fill the role.
    • mike17032, on 08/05/2008, -1/+3No, we dont need poor people. No one with half a ***** brain wants to live anywhere close to the sewers that are welfare projects.
  • ancientshoes, on 08/05/2008, -0/+8this is especially true for Dallas, companies are buying up old run down apartments, homes and projects around the city center and building high-end luxury low, mid and highrise apartments on them. Just 10 years ago, the brand new neighborhood of Victory Park near downtown used to be called "little mexico" and was populated by mexicans in extremely run down houses, and what stands there now is Victory Park (the 'times square' of texas) and multiple high-rise apartment and office buildings. Very cool.
    • emilychap, on 08/05/2008, -1/+3the same thing is happening here in austin too. the east side is being taken over by young urbanites. i live up north and my apartment complex is slowly getting filled up by hispanic and african american people who used to live on the east side. it seems like new condos are shooting up every day here. in 3 years, the austin skyline has completely changed. it's crazy!
  • mattmcegg, on 08/05/2008, -0/+3I don't think this is any kind of economic oppression as much as it is a natural economic balance.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Urbanism
  • gatorfree, on 08/05/2008, -7/+2This article is *****. What's really happening is all the poor people moving from the city congregate in small towns and turn them into ghettos. Then they become hard-core crime towns that you just avoid on the freeway (or "interstate" depending on where you live). With federal housing projects still in the cities you have situations like mine where I bought a condo now worth about 750K and I live directly across from projects where there's a drug related murder every week or so. Crappy little social experiment that's just getting worse.
  • JoshuaLowe, on 08/05/2008, -6/+2Good thing we're going to elect someone from Illinois as President, just look at how great Chicago is. 10.25% sales tax and gentrification forcing the poor into the American equivalent of the shantytowns that surround cities like Rio. That's awesome. And by awesome I mean it's ***** scary.


    • CaptOblivious, on 08/05/2008, -1/+1JoshuaLowe ,
      Sorry, but Obama is not to blame for the Stupid STUPID policies of Mayor Daley and the Cook County board or even the City Council's decisions (who could be at least partly blamed for the whole "gentrification" thing)
      .
      You really should try to get a clue. Or perhaps troll less? Or better?

      Oh, by the way, the Chicago suburbs are pretty damm far from shantytowns.
      Try Google street view, the really BAD areas are STILL in the city.
  • jcsoc, on 08/05/2008, -0/+2Boulder, CO... The entire city is becoming like the downtown of any number of the cities mentioned, with separate and widely buffered suburbs often in different counties altogether.
  • mrfooby, on 08/05/2008, -0/+0i love livin' in the city - fear
  • Suneet67, on 08/05/2008, -0/+1Milliken v. Bradley is responsible for this re-emergence of residential segregation.
  • noahparken, on 08/05/2008, -3/+1But there really are terrible place shere in the US. The gangsters are just to much for my kids and I hate it. If only I could afford to stay in high places, I'd be there already. But if you look at the newspapers, lately, bad things also happen to them, just not as much as us.
    Noah http://ourvacationdream.vox.com/
  • rjc1187, on 08/05/2008, -0/+3A perfect example for this article is San Francisco. Whites and Chinese is basically it in SF. Blacks and Mexicans live in Alameda County. SF is ridiculously expensive.
    • shauncorleone, on 08/05/2008, -0/+9I hear the smug problem in San Francisco makes it almost unbearable to live there anyway.
  • zsavior, on 08/05/2008, -3/+8Some body mentioned how while it became safer the art and culture of the city leaves and that statement is very true. They just didn't explain it right. I live in New York, Brooklyn to be exact but I have lived all over the city. So flame me vote me down if you want but it won't change the fact of what is happening.

    New York is a ghost of what it once was, the home of great Jazz, hip-hop, Break dancing is now a Disney happy Bar zone, for every hipster that comes there. The reason is not because crime, leads to art. That is a load of crap if anything singing about violence is what killed one of the forms of music from new york Rap. What was born out of New york was art and culture created by people who were living off the city, and hustling to survive. It isn't that there wasn't rich people in new york before, that was as much as the spirit of the city as the poor. No the problem was to cater to the new populous of Manhattan that wanted the Andy Warhol, hip-hop life style, they got rid of the consequence that life style could create. Basically people wanted to be where the new art and culture were they just didn't want any of the danger to go with it, and there in lies why the art and culture died. Yea you still have museums and things like that, but really beyond that New York has become Disney Land. Bars popped up all neat and tiddy for the kids whose rents are being paid for by the parents, but basically that's it.

    What's Funny is when I see people try to brag about living in New York now, total joke. It isn't the same as it used to be where you will see all different types riding the train together, now everybody is the same the minute you hit a certain line. The heart of Soul of the city is gone, is it safe enough to raise your kids? Yes, is that a good thing, yes, but is this the same new york that people think about when they talk about new york NO. It is what its inhabitants wanted, something tamed, and boring so they can feel safe and brag. Kind of like a person who takes a picture with a large Lion which has only known captivity, and watching them brag how brave they felt. Good for families but for people who want to live some place with some life it isn't the same.
    • phillykid162, on 08/05/2008, -0/+3I miss that New York City.... but I'd still take Manhattan over North Philly any day. :)
    • serif69, on 08/05/2008, -0/+6Yeah. It was great back then. Full of "life". After the mob was taken out of Manhattan, and before Giuliani started putting cops all over the place. When you couldn't walk in midtown Manhattan without worrying about getting mugged. When Times Square was full of peep shows and the homeless. When the number one cause of death was murder. If you think the arts left New York, you're blind. You live in Brooklyn, which is fast becoming the center for music and art in NYC. If you're an artist who struggles because there isn't enough plight, you're not a good artist. And if you miss the days when the city was a hell hole, then you're a cynical *****.
    • RationalXubrnce, on 08/05/2008, -1/+3 Brooklyn is full of the poor artists and minorities you are lamenting. If you can't find the art and real street scenes right where you are then you're hopeless, you're pining for something that only ever existed in your mind.
    • emilychap, on 08/05/2008, -1/+3I guess BK isn't authentic enough for you now. Sounds to me like you are referencing the L and are complaining about Williamsburg/Bushwick. I lived in the area briefly about 3 years ago.. And if you think bars and loft apartments are worse than stepping on used syringes and fending off crackheads in the street then you are delusional.
    • limedcoconut, on 08/05/2008, -1/+3Maybe don't blame the city, Guiliani, the cops, whatever. Blame yourself for expecting a town to give you something without you making it for yourself.
      Whats wrong with people who were born and raised in New York to NOT be afraid to take the train home at night? I'm happy that the New York i was born in is a safer place.
  • sklter84, on 08/05/2008, -8/+1America is perfect and equal how dare you spread Chinese propaganda and try to divide the nation.
  • joeanon, on 08/05/2008, -8/+2This is *****, most inner cities are poor and getting poorer. Just because you have one or two cities with recent upward trend doesn't mean there are any rich white people interested in mass relocation to the broken down inner cities.

    It's dirty, it's crime ridden and for the most part it costs a lot more unless you buy a broken down row home.
    • countthevotes, on 08/05/2008, -0/+1That makes sense. The inner cities are poor and getting poorer, but it costs "a lot more" to live there. Duh.
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