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87% of commercial plane crashes involved regional airlines

news.bbc.co.uk — How safe are US regional airlines? Crew's experience, training and working conditions may be a factor.

Who dugg this? Made popular May 14, 2009

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  • rebotfc, on 05/13/2009, -2/+33Could it not be that there are simply more regional flights than international?
  • a3r0, on 05/14/2009, -0/+207 out of the past 8 is not the same as 87% of all flights, like it implies. What a bad headline.
  • LacY, on 05/14/2009, -1/+20That was my thought, too. There are probably a LOT more regional flights than longer-distance flights on any given day.
  • stix213, on 05/14/2009, -0/+14Buried for completely irresponsible headline. 7 out of the last 8 crashes does not mean 87% of commercial plane crashes.

    If this moron who submitted this was playing roulette and 7 out of the last 8 rolls happen to have hit black... this idiot would say "ohh crap! roulette is fixed!! 87% of the time it hits black!!! OMG I am so smart!!"
  • maddskillz, on 05/14/2009, -0/+9What statistics are you speaking of? The article mentions that 7 of the last 8 airplanes to crash were regional airlines. I wouldn't think this is a large enough sample size to get conclusive results from.
  • amprather, on 05/14/2009, -1/+10I feel uncomfortable that some of these regional airline pilots make less than $20,000 a year. Something about having something that has my life in their hands making the same as someone that works full time at McDonald's just doesn't sit well with me.
  • asgardshill, on 05/14/2009, -1/+10Yup. And there are a ***** ton more general aviation flights than either of those, and general aviation is where the vast majority of crashes occur.
  • TimDigg, on 05/14/2009, -0/+7Regional AIRLINES and Regional FLIGHTS are two different things...
  • bromac, on 05/14/2009, -1/+7Also, your risk goes up with how many take-offs/landings you have to make, not the distance travelled. International legs are much longer, and have fewer stops. For the same amount of kilometers travelled, a domestic schedule would be much riskier than long-haul trips.
  • rollem, on 05/14/2009, -0/+6According to the article, half of all flights in the US are on small regional airlines.
  • brucealmighty, on 05/14/2009, -0/+5I am a frequent flier (only on commercial airlines) and I have never even sat in a cockpit....yet even I know what a 'stick shaker' warning means. How is it that federally licensed commercial pilots carrying a plane full of paying passengers know even less than I do about emergency aircraft warning systems.....?
  • daveal, on 05/14/2009, -1/+6There is no way to make this sound unlike "back in the day I had to walk uphill both ways on broken glass..." but I'm an airline pilot getting close to retirement. When I was hired by my current employer almost 30 years ago, you couldn't get an interview with less than 4000 to 5000 hours of flight time, including pilot-in-command, multiengine, turbine and instrument minimum time requirements. You needed multiple certifications, including an airline transport pilot certificate and aircraft type ratings. That 4000 hours was about seven years of actual full-time employment as a flight instructor, air ambulance, forest service, geophysical survey, charter and cargo pilot (at least for me). You learn a lot in these early jobs -- if you survive them. That experience comes in handy later.

    Today, you get hired to fly 50 souls with 250 total hours -- just about the minimum for a commercial pilot certificate -- right out of flight school with no practical experience. Over a thousand short of an airline transport pilot certificate. Why? Because it's legal. Because it's all about the money.

    I know my regional airline brothers and sisters will scream bloody murder about this post. Some regional pilots are very experienced but pairing up a couple of pilots with no real experience will continue to lead to these kinds of accidents. In the end, it is all about needle, ball and airspeed.

    Read the cockpit voice recorder transcripts from this crash and decide for yourself. You get what you pay for.

    http://www.ntsb.gov/Dockets/Aviation/DCA09MA027/41 ...
  • Botond, on 05/14/2009, -0/+3Complete opposite. Regionals= n00bs getting paid dick.
  • mehan, on 05/14/2009, -0/+3WTF, the pilots' starting salaries are $20,000 a year?

    They should put out some tip jars around the cockpit, or something...
  • inactive, on 05/14/2009, -0/+3to give you an example, I work at a regional airport. We have airliners all day in Delta, United and Northwest colors but none are flown by those airlines. They are contracted out and fly under callsigns like Skywest, Flagship, Comair, Jetlink etc...
  • mirot, on 05/14/2009, -3/+6Please... let's not have calls for more regulation. It's very bad business for an airline to lose a plane... any additional government rules for increased safety will just raise prices for consumers.
  • petard, on 05/14/2009, -0/+3Regional airlines as in small airlines
  • grbruner, on 05/14/2009, -0/+3It is not about the number of regional flights. It is about the number of regional flights that are flown by regional airlines.

    i.e. a flight from SFO to LAX via United Airlines is a regional flight but NOT on a regional airline.
    but a flight from SFO to LAX via United Express is a regional flight AND on a regional airline.

    Article states that half all USA of flights are flown by regional airlines so if 87% of fatal commercial crashes are on 50% of the flights, that is telling. I would like to see data from a larget sample size. Perhaps everything to 24 months back.
  • inactive, on 05/14/2009, -0/+3This makes sense.
  • Botond, on 05/14/2009, -0/+2I've been pretty frustrated with my career choice thus far considering the ***** pay. Even more frustrated by the reactions of my friends/family/random admirable passengers that inquire about how much we get paid and how the public is GROSSLY misinformed. This of course all kept quiet by the Airlines, as its an utter embarrassment and if more knew would definitely not feel safe or comfortable to fly. The responsibility-to-pay ratio and away from home,family-to-commute and work ratio is completely *****.

  • Botond, on 05/14/2009, -0/+2I'm truly embarrassed that these pilots were untrained in a stick shaker situation, but I will say that if you haven't ever experienced it, its freaky as *****. Stick pusher is even worse, and that's what he pulled back on. If you've never stalled to the pusher, it would be an IMMEDIATE reaction to pull back. Huge a ***** on Colgan's part for not teaching this.
  • mikemehak, on 05/14/2009, -1/+3I think you should allow other countries to come and set up regional airlines.

    I will start with air US Iraq. I need a craigslist ad "Looking for Iraqi Airline Pilots to start new venture"
  • SPNKrPunk, on 05/14/2009, -0/+2Most make more than that. Example: a first year turbojet FO at Mesa Air Group makes $22/credit hour. Assuming a schedule of 85 hours a month (max 100 by law), that works out to $22440 per year. Keep in mind that is probationary pay, as the second year pay goes up.

    Now don't get me wrong - that's still really low. Take a look at:

    www.airlinepilotcentral.com - publishes pay breakdowns for most US operators and some international.

    At issue, however, is the amount of rest pilots at some regionals have. In many cases it simply isn't enough, and its a big issue in the community. I'll let you do the research, but suffice to say that the Quality of Life for some regional pilots is far from satisfactory. Sniff around and you will see that the Mesa's and GoJets and Great Lakes of the world can't keep pilots because of poor QOL.
  • DeadBabyFloat, on 05/14/2009, -2/+3Regional airliners are by no means "puddle-jumpers"
  • iamheero1, on 05/14/2009, -0/+1Dude school got out, chill with numbers and stuff.
  • inactive, on 05/14/2009, -1/+2Except mopeds only do like 40 mph and you're only 2 feet off the ground.
  • Botond, on 05/14/2009, -0/+1This is ridiculous. First off, Ive seen old newspaper PAN AM classified clippings from 30 years ago with job openings for pilots WITH ONLY A PRIVATE PILOT LICENSE. I have no idea where you were applying that required 3k-4k hours.

    Secondly, who is hiring to fly 50 souls with 250 hours?? I was furloughed in July last year and could not find a job for the life of me with my 1200 hours. [Im glad I got recalled] Colgan was hiring with 500 hours, but I could not afford to move to St. Louis and live off of 16k a year.

    Also, could you please retire already? The 65 age rule change really screwed us young guys over. Thanks.
  • Justwall, on 05/14/2009, -0/+1Could they not just pay pilots more so they don't have too take 8 jobs at once.. Honestly I am a commercial pilot in training and am not looking forward too 3 years of ***** before actually making an average salary. $60000 of training and this is what we get?
  • SPNKrPunk, on 05/14/2009, -0/+1I fully agree, but can you tell me with a straight face that you would turn down a turbojet position in favor of flying checks around in a Cessna? Now, you may say yes, but I think the vast majority of pilots in that 300 hour range would jump at the chance for a turbine job.

    In any event, what would you suggest the next time there is a severe shortage of pilots?
  • ASSASSYN360, on 05/14/2009, -0/+1Underpaid and over worked. Not suprised. The only reason I plan to go to the regional aiirlines is because my income is supplemented with V.A. payments.
  • Botond, on 05/14/2009, -0/+1Amen brother. Its soooooooo sad how no one knows how much we get paid. Its like and immediate assumption that Pilots get paid bank and we are all rollin' in the $$. SO not the case.
  • ytsejam29, on 05/14/2009, -3/+2Makes sense, since the least experienced pilots start out at regional airlines.
  • dlan4327, on 05/14/2009, -3/+2I've always thought that regional flights have more experienced pilots.

    Mainly because they chuck newbies on Int flights in order to get as much experience as they can.
  • joemc91, on 05/14/2009, -3/+0HA! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World%27s_largest_air ...

    Numbers 11 and 14. Both US regional airlines and definitely not small.
  • poogy21, on 05/13/2009, -9/+5And booze.
  • inactive, on 05/14/2009, -8/+3I do not fly puddle jumpers. No exceptions. That's like getting a ride on the back of someone's moped.
  • mjoe, on 05/14/2009, -8/+1could it be you have no understanding of statistics?
  • ripits, on 05/14/2009, -10/+2and the other 13% of it landed safely?

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