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45 Comments
- tomanthony, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11he tarzan.
- palmer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7As if "consumer reviews" hold any water. Ever been to Epinions or any other rating site? It's essentially mindless cheerleading for whatever the owners have spent their money on, and how dare anyone criticize their purchase.
From early reports, some of these discs were released with MPEG-2 encoding. WTF? That is absolutely asinine, and in no way reveals the potential of the formats.
Then again, even the lame data rate of these discs is double that of the typical "HD" broadcast, and we don't hear people complaining about those broadcasts (although we should, because they suck).
The sad fact is that we've seen the end of improving audio and video quality. Video is destroyed by data compression, and all of our music is now destroyed by dynamic compression. Ever notice now the commercials use the meaningless term "digital quality", and never use the word "good"?
We have the best sound- and image-reproducing technology of all time available to us, and nothing left to play on it.
DEMAND BETTER. - Slovenian6474, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Just how does iTV contribute to either side of the high-def DISC (emphasis on DISC) format war? Media Center PCs have a DISC drive.
- paul_c, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7They really plan on selling ten of these things?
- GrantTheGr8, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5It would be nice if digg would add a duggmirror link to every page. Until then, that works. Thanks for the quick link. :)
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4What they fail to see in handing Blu-Ray the advantage in both the videogame consoles and standalone devices category is that:
- we're talking about a million PS3 owners by the end of the year who'll be lucky enough to get one and have the $500-$600 to sink into one, versus nearly 10 million *current* XBox 360 owners who'll consider paying a mere $200 for the external add-on. I see that as a clear advantage for HD-DVD; those people won't be thinking of it as having paid $600 total for an XBox 360 with HD-DVD, they'll be thinking of it as buying a $200 HD-DVD player.
- and speaking of price, it doesn't matter how many brands are coming out with Blu-Ray players--the fact that they cost much more than Toshiba's lower-end HD-DVD consoles is going to be a greater factor in what consumers will go for. - gweedo767, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7The site is responding fine. People like to post to duggmirror to right off the bat just to get dugg up.
- Slovenian6474, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6"(T)he 10 Devices That May Settle the High-Def Disc War"
"...Expect these ten Blu-ray and HD DVD devices to carry the flag for both camps."
Is it just me or are these statements conflicting? - MikeOSX, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4he who?
- jcapogna, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5I'm not digging it for the same reason. If the submitter can't take the time to proofread the title. Heck, the first word of the title. Then they don't deserve to be dugg.
- ayeroxor, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5"he ten devices" indeed. Hooray proofreading!
- dbr_onix, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I can understand spelling mistakes in submissions.. But rushing to the point you miss extremely important letters seems a little silly...
- Ben - newevilmind, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3i think the internet will settle the hi-def disc war.
because both formats are going to lose. - DCstewieG, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I've always loved that marketing term "digital quality." A 16 kbps MP3 is digital quality. If I hold up a mic to the radio and record that in the computer, that's digital quality. Absolutely meaningless. Like my cable company saying digital cable is better. Ha! Maybe if you didn't compress the ***** out of them to make room for the 8 billion that I'll never watch.
- there, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4
Exactly. Why the heck would we want to fork over the dough for another betamax?
Give them a year or two of flat sales and they'll catch on. - there, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"Their's a lot of Betamax comments but the founder of VHS, ***** (JVC, Panasonic, etc) are one of the Blu-ray founders, and one of the biggest Blu-ray supporters.
It's not about Sony bashing (although they truly deserve a smarting since that rootkit incident). It just means that I don't wanna buy something, waste my time figuring out its nooks and crannies, buy supplementary product....then finally find out a year later I have to switch to the competitor and repeat the process.
Like interiot suggested I think a hybrid system is what's going to win. I know I won't consider buying a unit until I can be sure it will be well supported into the future. - applebyte, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Instead of just writing http://www.duggmirror.com why not put in the full link like this:
http://duggmirror.com/tech_news/he_10_Devices_That_May_Settle_the_High_Def_Disc_War/ - dWhisper, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Very much so. The page itself looks more like a marketing flyer than a review. There are 10 devices listed, but when you get to PCs, they sit at "Unknown" or "To be determined." None of these items will settle anything.
The problem with this format war is that they can't set themselves apart in any way. They hold about the same (yes, BluRay can potentially hold more, but it's too expensive and not needed yet), they look the same, they have the same crappy content protection, they both treat consumers like criminals, they're both expensive, and they're both reliant on other technology that's just starting to enter homes.
But beyond that, most people just don't care. We say ooh and aah at how neat HD looks in the demonstration, but get the actual content, and it's nothing special at all. Add to that the potential cost, and I'll just continue buying up my $15 DVDs and play them on my 27" SD TV. - superkendall, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1What do you mean iTV content is not portable? It's all the content you have on your computer, and thus your laptop...
Unless you are not talking about the Apple device but it was not very clear what you meant. - interiot, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4Easy answer: A device that plays both BluRay and HD-DVD, and sells for less than $300. Or if one of the formats dies. Until then, I'm probably not interested.
- carve, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1How do we go about demanding better?
- DoctorNo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Their's a lot of Betamax comments but the founder of VHS, ***** (JVC, Panasonic, etc) are one of the Blu-ray founders, and one of the biggest Blu-ray supporters.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@oxyrubber
Both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD players are backwards-compatible with DVD. In fact, they make excellent upconverters. - sigma419, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1If I want to get an HD disc player, I'll probably go for the cheapest player. Since I already own an Xbox 360, the cheapest solution for me is that addon. I'm sure that a lot of people will be thinking the same thing.
Plus, I'm assured that the HD-DVD player will be high-quality - the 360's built-in DVD player is great, so the HD-DVD player probably will be, too. - saralk, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I think Blue Ray will fail purely because of the name, everyone know what DVD is, and everyone knows what HD is, so HD-DVD just sounds like a logical extension to DVDs. Blue Ray doesn't give anything away about what it is, and for the average Joe consumer, isn't instantly obvious that its got high def video on.
- palmer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Good question.
It's getting harder, admittedly. Saying not to buy compressed music would have been the easy answer once upon a time; buy CDs. But now CDs are so crushed by dynamic compression that it doesn't matter whether you buy the music on a data-compressed medium or not. The music is ruined in the mastering process.
The names of the boards of directors of most companies are searchable on the Web. Write. Everyone thinks that there's nothing we can do, but nobody is trying to make his voice heard. Look at this guy from Sony, saying, "If people don't know what a rootkit is, they shouldn't care." Most people don't know exactly why they're fatigued by and less interested in music now; they don't know what dynamic compression is or why it ruins music. Most people still believe that "digital quality" means something. In a time when some people were duped into thinking Saddam bombed the WTC, is it surprising that quality continues to plummet? These companies know they can get away with it. And no one is challenging that.
Proving otherwise is tough, but you can do it. Get out some paper, envelopes, and stamps. Prove that you are not as stupid as these companies think you are. - palmer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1This backward-compatibility complaint always comes up, and it's always a stupid red herring. Who is forcing you to throw away your existing players whenever a new format comes out? NO ONE. Backward compatibility is not necessary. Somehow DVD set the world on fire without being compatible with VHS. And there are lots of people out there who don't even realize you can play CDs on a DVD player.
- jwvelez, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2heh, 10 Devices That May Settle the High-Def Disc War, heh
- Slovenian6474, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Portable as in, i can loan it to a friend to watch. Dvds are very easy to let a friend watch at his house. Yes i can loan the friend my iTV, but what good does that do for him and for me? He can now stream videos to his tv but i now can't.
"It's all the content you have on your computer, and thus your laptop..."
Exactly, it's all the content on your computer. Hence, if you can't gain access to your computer (in the car or not near your network), iTV can't do anything for you. Unless it works like a slingbox which i'm not aware that it does, but even in that case, you need internet access. - markcrules, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2I was under the impression that Digg users have already decided not to support any of these formats, saying basically DVD is good enough.
I know what will kill these formats... consumer apathy. - superkendall, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1A "mere" $200? The problem is all it does is give you the ability to play HD-DVD disc, which most people are not sure they want.
Meanwhile the PS3 will have a million people that can casually expiriment with Blu-Ray from Netflix without additional expense.
Console add-ons often fail even when they relate to gaming. What makes you think the 360 HD-DVD unit will have more than a 1% adoption rate? - superkendall, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1There is a huge problem with your theory - everyone knows, as you say, what DVD is. And so when they see HD-DVD disc they will think they work in a current DVD player connected to a an HD TV. That means a lot of confusion and a lot of returns. With Blu-Ray at least it is more obvious you need something new to play it.
- klawz, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0bury it
- charlescheese, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3The site was dead for me...thanks for the duggmirror link.
- Slovenian6474, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0As i whole-heartly agree with the 'war' being fought over the dollars of the rich, and i also use the CRTs and have no problems with my DVD collection playing on my HDTV, i don't see how the iTV is considered competition for a disc format. Ya the iTV sounds pretty sweet. My 360 does similiar type thing and i would consider the iTV competition for a Media Center Extenders. iTV is neither a competitor for high-def discs nor DVDs because the iTV lacks one thing that DVDs and HD discs have. Portablility. I can't rent iTV (but can buy content online), i can't play my iTV in the car on trips for the kids (although playing HD content on the 8" screen is kinda retarded. Point is there mostly for the fact that HD discs are trying to replace the common DVD), and i also couldn't let a friend borrow my iTV to watch a movie from it.
iTV and HD discs are 2 completely seperate products areas. They are not competition for each other. - oxyrubber, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0The Hi-Def war will be won ONLY IF one format prevails and people adopt the new format in a very broad way. I have no intention of upgrading my DVD equipment to a non-backwards-compatible (with DVD) format unless I absolutely have to. I have 3 embeded AV DVD players and 4 computer DVD ROM drives and it will take a significant influence (perhaps video rental stores discontinue DVDs and push the new HiDef format) to get me to upgrade my equipment.
- meepus, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3I feel like this HD disc 'war' is one that's being fought over the heads of myself and consumers like me. I own two televisions, and neither supports HD. I have a reasonably sized DVD collection, and my computer monitors are CRTs.
This is a 'war' being fought over the dollars of the rich... and the rich don't exactly care which format wins, so long as they get to see pretty stuff on pretty screens and show it off to their friends.
I'm rooting for iTV if it allows me to pipe whatever video I want from my PC to my TV without wires going from one to the other (as is currently the case with my inordinately long S-Video cable). - trollick, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2Digg for using "he"
- chaoticfusion, on 10/12/2007, -10/+8http://duggmirror.com/
- Crass22, on 10/12/2007, -5/+3They must have some really pathetic webhosting if the first comment is a link to duggmirror. c'mon people dont post your damn blogs on digg if you know it cant handle the load.
- duhblow7, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0@crass
the content of the link should determine whether or not it makes it to digg, not the hosting provider. that's what duggmirror is for.
by your reasoning only content with enough bw should make it to digg, isn't that what the whole net neutrality argument is about. you can't possibly be for that, are you? - joebrodie, on 10/12/2007, -6/+1Tu-hu Tu-hu... TODAY Junior!!!
- kolop1, on 10/12/2007, -7/+2Can't see this page.
- snypa, on 10/12/2007, -8/+2Should be "The 10 devices..."
http://duggmirror.com/tech_news/he_10_Devices_That_May_Settle_the_High_Def_Disc_War/ - SPThom, on 10/12/2007, -7/+1Not to sound like an Apple whore, but I would think a list considering a number of "Media PCs" would at least consider the iTV. We don't know much about it, but with an HDMI output we can assume there will be some availability of HD content in the future, and that could pose a considerable challenge to both of the HD disc formats.
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