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296 Comments
- xose, on 10/12/2007, -7/+419So is this the "can't beat them, so ban them!" solution?
- gookie, on 10/12/2007, -8/+304Gbay, anyone?
- Popdmb, on 10/12/2007, -8/+268Second only to the "Can't beat them? Sue them" mentality of the RIAA. You'd think businesses would learn by now...
- rebrad, on 10/12/2007, -12/+259I guess eBay will have to learn the AOL lesson the hard way. I would trust Google any day over eBay.
- kenthorvath, on 10/12/2007, -12/+234I smell an anti-trust lawsuit a'coming.
- kenthorvath, on 10/12/2007, -6/+185@Chewie67:
More like McDonalds refusing to take your Visa credit card because it has a Burger King logo on it. Actually, even that wouldn't be as bad as what eBay is doing now. At least when McDonalds refuses to take your card, they are directly involved in the transaction. But with eBay, the contract is between the buyer and the seller and eBay doesn't even enter into it. If they are going to insist on this level of control over how buyer and seller can enter into a contract, then they should also accept a greater level of liability when a seller engages in fraud. You can't have it both ways. (Or at least you shouldn't be able to...) - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -12/+144"Gbay, anyone?"
No.
My friend was being silly and registered "freebay.org". Within days, eBay sent him a letter demanding that he turn "freebay.org" over to them. He explained that it was not going to have anything to do with auctions or ebay and that it was also an "org" and not a commercial pursuit. In fact, we never ended up doing anything with it at all so far as I recall. It was just for the hell of it.
So... yeah.. Gbay definitely would not fly.
They should call it the Ironforge Auction House instead :) - gronne, on 10/12/2007, -5/+103That is total BS. "Ebay, we get you coming and twice when you're going."
- Yez70, on 10/12/2007, -6/+97I'm dumping my eBay stock immediately, I smell a HUGE lawsuit coming.
It's time for Google to draw some blood, getting ready for battle with the telcos next. - panique, on 10/12/2007, -5/+87@kent, you beat me to it. I'd further add that Google is to become the primary antitrust litigation force over the next 10 years. It's sure going to cost a ton of cash to attract the best-of-the-best lawyers to work for them.
- zirtbow, on 10/12/2007, -1/+82If Google created their own auction service and then had free listings for those users that used Google Checkout they would destroy eBay so fast.. well.. i'm not even sure how to describe it. Users would most likely come over in massive swarms and they would be able to support it off the commission from Google Checkout alone.
Lets try an example with an XBOX 360 and say its $400 just for example purposes...
On Ebay if you at minimum list it for $0.01 with a reserve of $400.
$0.20 - Insertion Fee
$4 - 1% Reserve price
$12.56 - Final value fee (5.25% initial $25 and 3% the last $375)
$11.90 - Paypal fee.. They get to collect on the full $400 since the eBay fees aren't deducted when the seller sends payment.
So to sell this item it would cost $28.66 or roughly 7.2% of the sale price.
Now if you could list the same item on a Google Auction type site for free with a fee from Google Checkout it would be...
$8.20 - 2% + $0.20
and if you use google adwords it possibly could be free...
So Google... open an auction site... you literally can't lose. - mandarin, on 10/12/2007, -7/+79the food in Ebay's cafeteria sucks too...
- Moocat, on 10/12/2007, -19/+89Apparently some people missed this part. eBay DOES accept other methods of payment outside of PayPal, including:
"Allpay.net, Bidpay, Canadian Tire Money, cash2india, CertaPay, Checkfree.com, hyperwallet,com, Moneybookers.com, Ozpay.biz, Payko.com, Paymate.com.au, Propay.com, XOOM"
So no, it's nothing like Burger King selling McDonalds or whatever half-assed remark you made. It's eBay flipping right the ***** out over a direct competitor to PayPal, unlike their other accepted payment methods. And if you read the article in the first place, you'd know eBay did not make the remark about them being a competitor, they made an attempt to hide their motives by saying Google doesn't have a financial history...despite the fact it's complete *****...AdSense anyone? - ReinMasamuri, on 10/12/2007, -8/+67It is monopolization. The difference here is that the restraunt, or mcdonalds doesn't OWN the payment company.
- TalenKlaive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+48@ViperDaimao: The difference there is that "the restaurant" does not have its own credit card/payment system, Mc Donalds does not have its own payment system. Ebay does have its own payment system, and its forcing users to use it over a competitors payment system. Don't know if its illegal, but its defiantly shady.
- john608, on 10/12/2007, -9/+51Wow. I wonder how long this will go on before Google threatens to sue. Wouldn't this be a type of monopoly abuse practices?
- john608, on 10/12/2007, -7/+47Um No. It would be like Mastercard(eBay) telling me as a business owner (Person selling stuff on eBay) that I would not be allowed to use Discover(Google) - And threatened that if I did they would not allow me to accept Mastercard (Paypal) anymore. Do you think I would even think of using Discover(Google) then?
- CaseyUCF, on 10/12/2007, -7/+46or not because this one is already on the front page.
- spectre_25gt, on 10/12/2007, -1/+39It's called antitrust. Ebay basically has a monopoly in the area right now (not illegal) and this can be considered abuse of monopoly power (definitely illegal).
- drakey, on 10/12/2007, -4/+42Remember that PayPal is owned by Ebay, so this isn't just Ebay disallowing some payment system, but banning a direct competitor to their PayPal service.
- facelessmanchs, on 10/12/2007, -2/+38I just love eBay: First a seller pays eBay to list an item....then the seller pays eBay a final value percent at the end of the auction...then the seller pays PayPal (whom we all know is owned by eBay) a percent to collect the money...God forbid anyone try to bypass any one of eBay's "collection schemes" with another payment processor such as Google Checkout...
- millixaw, on 10/12/2007, -1/+34I wonder if all of those annoying eBay affiliate search results will suddenly disappear from Google's cache??
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+32This doesn't surprise me at all. I run an auction site with about 40,000 members and over the many years, a number of users have encountered serious problems with eBay threatening to ban their accounts (and other things) for simply having a link to their account on my auction site. Which is ridiculous, because I certainly don't forbid people from linking to their eBay auctions from my site. Or to the auctions of other competitors either.
Frankly, as long as you're not _abusing_ my site to spam your stuff elsewhere, link to whatever the hell you want. Why not?
Ebay isn't just a big bully -- it's an INSECURE big bully. - dmron, on 10/12/2007, -8/+29This story was submitted first, therefore the story you are linking to is actually the dupe.
- dosequis, on 10/12/2007, -2/+23What did everyone expect? Ebay isn't going to accept the Paypal killer.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+23How is that reasonable? If you've used PayPal, you would probably agree that PayPal doesn't even live up to the standards stated in your citation.
- drakey, on 10/12/2007, -2/+21"OK, no one has convinced me that anything is wrong with this. I can accept any and all forms of payment i want. If you dont like it, dont use my service. Can anyone who actually knows something about the law show me that I am wrong and that I do not have the freedom to accept which payment I want?"
Ebay does have a de facto monopoly on online auctions. It's not illegal to have a monopoly, but it is illegal to use your monopoly position to quash competition--in this case, for their satellite company PayPal. If you can't see what's wrong with a monopoly company saying who can and cannot do business with their customers (something, btw, that the -customers- should decide and not the auction house), I hope you have no ambitions in law. - AgintSmyth, on 10/12/2007, -2/+20The simple solution is:
GoogleAuctions (beta) - liquidizer, on 10/12/2007, -3/+20There might be a case here. Google could argue that Ebay is using its monopoly in the auction market to exert unfair influence in the payments market. Although Ebay does ban lots of other payment methods too, and allow several potential competitors (eg moneybookers). Ebay will probably back down once Google's proven itself.
The restaurant examples don't work because the restaurant doesn't own the payment company and doesn't have a monopoly either. If McDonalds had a monopoly on restaurants and owned a credit card company and stopped accepting rival credit cards, then that might be anti-competitive, yes. - thermus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+18Seriously. They make money at every step of a transaction. I had an auction cancelled because my description indicated I refused credit card payments through PayPal (since they collect an additional percentage and fees when you receive a credit card payment).
It's about time someone took on eBay. It's interesting to see how eBay has responded so far. Instead of offering a better service or lowering fees, they lock out the competition. R.I.P. eBay... - dose, on 10/12/2007, -5/+21"eBay's Safe Payments policy states that a payment service must have a 'substantial historical track record of providing safe and reliable financial and/or banking related services.'"
Seems reasonable to me. I'm sure as Google Checkout matures eBay will review the system again for inclusion. But then again eBay might just be a bunch of meanies. - kxa007, on 10/12/2007, -5/+20This is anti-trust issues. The lawyers will be all over it. Ebay can regulate the auctions but can not allow only online payment through Paypal because they own it. If they did not own it, it'll be a different story.
- ModernGeek, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15Another analogy: You are a store in a mall, and the mall tells you that you're store cannot use one credit card processing service, and that you can only use the malls credit processing service. The mall in question is the biggest mall in town and it would suck to try and sell anywhere else.
- NSMike, on 10/12/2007, -3/+17You mean "Cheese with your Whine."
- wyrdness, on 10/12/2007, -2/+16@gookie - I don't think that they'd risk the wrath of Ebay's lawyers by calling their rival 'gbay'. It would probably be called something like Google Auctions Beta.
Or they could turn their useless Froogle site into an online auction. - pyrates, on 10/12/2007, -8/+21@Laurent
You're quite pathetic you know that :) So what if this one came out on top when you had only submitted yours 11 minutes earlier. People who call dupe because a story they submitted didn't make it to the front page, when another one did on the same story which was submitted around the same time period are nothing but sore losers who are bitching and moaning. STFU already.
I hope you know that when you do that, people usually digg you down and put you on ignore for any future submissions that come from you. Then there's even less of a chance of a story you submit showing up on the front page. At least that's what I'd do anyways. - NSMike, on 10/12/2007, -3/+15@Seumas
Agreed. Paypal certainly didn't have that kind of history when E-Bay bought it.
If E-Bay allows users to still accept personal checks and money orders as options of payment, it should permit them to choose an optional online banking solution besides the one E-Bay owns. It's anti-competitive, plain and simple. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+16hahaha ebay is scared, im supporting google all the way baby
and isnt this illegal for ebay to do? - biffsputnik, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12(IANAL)
This has been covered already fairly well, but I can see some are stil having difficulty determining why this is an unfair business practice. The key point is that Ebay owns PayPal. If they didn't, it wouldn't matter.
View an example everyone is familiar with- the Microsoft anti-trust matter. In this case, Ebay is using its market dominance in online auctions (Microsoft:Operating System) to limit competition in the online payment market (Microsoft:Browser). PayPal is built in to the Ebay system, not merely 'accepted'. (IE built into Windows, not simply an available option)
Additionally, Microsoft was accused of coding their OS/Browser/Online content so that it would not 'play nice' with other browsers. Microsoft denied this but we all know it was true. Here, Ebay is going the extra step and issuing POLICY that they will not accept Google Checkout. Not only is this as strong a case as the one against Microsoft, it's actually debatably a stronger case. The debate comes from the fact that Ebay does accept other payment methods. Exactly what the details of the relationship between Ebay and the other online payment companies are, and how their parent companies differ from Google in relation to their competition with Ebay are the x factors here.
IMO, Ebay is running scared. I also believe this scenario is exactly why Google went ahead with Google Checkout, I think they saw this as a window of opportunity due to Ebay's acquisition of PayPal. - jonshipman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10eBay is keeping businesses from using Google Checkout. A lot of businesses use ebay as a selling ground for overstock items and reg items and eBay is denying them the choice.
- geardosdotnet, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10since when has paypal been trustworthy? They are crooked as hell.
- mt066, on 10/12/2007, -6/+15Yeah forget it. OBVIOUSLY eBay has made the dumbest move in business history by blatantly creating an illegal monopoly....surely they have no lawyers whatsover that would have seen this coming. Luckily, we have the most trustworthy legal resource availabel to man: people who comment on digg.
- Madcowz, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13If you don't like it, the best thing to do is vote with your wallet and stop using Ebay.
/Mad - aumgrown, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9I was an eBay powerseller for a while doing alot of business on eBay and I can tell you from experience that Paypal is one of the most mean spirited, shiesty companies out there. YOU WOULD NOT BELIEVE WHAT I HAVE BEEN THROUGH TRYING TO MAKE A CLAIM UNDER THEIR "PROTECTION SERVICE'. More than once I have been treated worse than doodoo for trying to get my money back when someone blatently scammed me, and it was obvious! The people at their company are rude as it gets in NYC and do there best to not understand what is going on as if they are all a bunch of UNFROZEN CAVEMAN LAWYERS! f you look on eBay YOU WILL SEE A NUBER OF BIG SELLERS WHO DO NOT ACCEP PAYPAL FOR SUCH REASONS(other than their undeserved high tax!). Ebay's people are not much better, I think they've gotten cocky from being #1 for too long. I love the service that eBay offers as much if not more than anybody out there but I WOULD LOVE TO SEE SOME COMPETITION HUMBLE THEM A BIT! COME ON GOOGLE!
- Cl1mh4224rd, on 10/12/2007, -6/+15dmron wrote: "This story was submitted first, therefore the story you are linking to is actually the dupe."
Eh?
This story: "submitted ... 1 hour 16 minutes ago"
That story: "submitted ... 1 hour 29 minutes ago"
Not that it matters, but I couldn't let that go. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+14The solution would DEFININTELY be like someone said 2 postings ago
Have Google REMOVE ebay from google listings.
They can even say the same thing ebay said about google checkout.
"sorry. Too many fraud complaints and too new of a system so I can't chose ebay on my site. So sue me!"
Then they'd see who's more powerful. (or who cares more about the other's traffic.) - Daedalus81, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9I hope Google doesn't sue them. Ebay is scared and Google should take the higher road. Let the people decide which is better.
- dougmc, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8`eBay's Safe Payments policy states that a payment service must have a 'substantial historical track record of providing safe and reliable financial and/or banking related services.'
...
Yes, it sounds reasonable. But yet they allow PayPal? A large part of the problem with PayPal has always been that they offer `financial and/or banking related services' but aren't subject to many of the laws that protect consumers against companies that offer these services.
(And yes, I know that they own PayPal now ...) - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8That was a petty and childish move by eBay. Sour grapes raised to the power of 10. eBay could have accepted them as another payment processor and Gbuy wouldn't have made a ripple in the market. But this PR blunder is priceless, the negative publicity alone is worth millions to Google.
Now for Google to roll out its auction site and I believe you will see defections by the thousands, possibly tens of thousands from eBay and that's just the sellers. Not necessarily because of this, but because eBay has been steadily antagonistic to their vendors for a long time. A cheap chisel here and there, it adds up to a lot of hard feelings over time. Now something like this which just provides a dash of moral smugness in switching over. When your customers are already unhappy it doesn't take much. This was a really, really bad move.
eBay got caught up in playing the big company game and spent too much time comfortably insulated from criticism aboard their company jet. When a company switches from having a focus on customer satisfaction to corporate smugness, they're doomed. Might take a long time to die, but still dead company walking. eBay just paved a road to Google Auction and invited thousands of customers to walk away.
Nice job, eBay. You get this weeks Wonder Blunder award. -
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