What is Digg?36 Comments
- motionblur, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"I'd think people wouldn't embrace the new model simply due to the fact that it would cost them 6000 extra for something that probably wouldn't save them that much over the course of the car's life. At my current gas usage and car, it would take me approximately 11 years to see an actual cost benefit. Yes, there's the whole "Save the environment because it's pretty or something" aspect of it, but that's not nearly enough for not nearly enough people"
Therefore the "not nearly enough" people are "morans". Why is it always about the bottom line? Has greed really taken over? How about a little existentialism? - Swampthing, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Do you really think a Prius costs that much?... Just think about how many fully-loaded 2006 model cars cost less than $26,000 and come with a full graphical navigation system, voice command system, keyless entry and driving, nine speaker Jensen sound system, hold six CDs at a time, cassette player, am radio with two FM bands, upper/lower glove compartments, side passenger airbags, auto-tinting rearview mirror, HOMELINK transmitters located on the rear view mirror, intermittent front and rear wipers, lighted visors, four doors with room inside as large as a Camry, AND AVERAGE 50+ MILES PER GALLON? Not too many...
BTW, battery cost isn't even an issue. They are covered 100% with the standard warranty. But if you want to add cost of repairs into the mileage, you have to consider how many repairs you have to make on a standard car before reaching $100,000. If the cost of repairs should count against the mileage gains on a Prius, shouldn't the cost of repairs count against the overall cost of a standard car too? :) - mutant, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Love hybrid cars, but I've never grasped the concept of people thinking that replacing gas with electric is the king's answer to all.. Power still generates pollution from the plants that create the power, power distrobution lines still waste an enourmous amount of energy pushing it down cables. Fossil fuels for cars is an idea LONG dead, we need a change, but people thinking electric is the end all seem to forget there is a HUGE cost to producing that energy. Home power cells seem to me a very good choice for changing the way we live and consume. Only create what you consume. If you have a hybrid car, you generate the power you need, not have a constant flow that is largely wasted by sitting on power lines.
my $.02. - forceflow2, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I'd think people wouldn't embrace the new model simply due to the fact that it would cost them 6000 extra for something that probably wouldn't save them that much over the course of the car's life. At my current gas usage and car, it would take me approximately 11 years to see an actual cost benefit. Yes, there's the whole "Save the environment because it's pretty or something" aspect of it, but that's not nearly enough for not nearly enough people.
- forceflow2, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I obviously don't have a hybrid, so therefore those with hybrids would have to wait an even longer amount of time to see the monetary benefit, just thought I would add that in case anyone didn't understand what I was saying.
- diggscreenname, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I completey agree with the Corolla Prius Comparison that theblooms made. In fact I have a close friend who is a card carrying tree hugger who just bought a Corolla after doing the same research for himself. Its just not cost effective to go with a hybrid currently. If you are like my friend or me and hold onto cars until the wheels fall off then its WAY cheaper to go with something like a Corolla. If you make good money and get a new car every 4 or 5 years then it might make a lot more sense to go with a Prius.
My friend went with a new Corolla that he got for invoice price versus a Prius going for MSRP. He then wrote a big fat check to the Sierra club with the money he saved. - techfi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Your calculation looks good as of today, only one thing you should consider.
For commuter’s plug-in car can have up to 200Mpg with today’s battery technology, it is just matter of time when some car manufacturer announces availability of such car, and rest have to follow.
Battery technology is advancing both in capacity, safety and reduced cost.
Li-ion batteries what they used in this plug-in car are low volume product. Studies expect battery cost will be cut significantly as technology goes mainstream mass production.
There is also companies that have developed a Li-ion nano-battery that can be both loaded in minutes (limiting factor for car is likely you house cabling and fuse) and can be recharged 1000 times without loss of capacity.
If you add to this that the Oil price will go up in next 5-10 years equation just get better and better for alternative cars like HEV.
Yes EV and plug-in car is not convenient for now but some people can tolerate that and we get better cars next year. - jteague82, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I just posted something like this on my blog about my own prius:
http://justinteague.com/blog/i-heart-my-prius/ - theblooms, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1At this juncture, hybrids are insane to buy. A Corolla gets only like 10 MPG less than a Prius, costs SEVEN THOUSAND dollars less, and you won't have to replace the main engine (the batteries) every 10 years for upwards of $10,000. Heck, a REGLUAR battery in a car is $60! Priuses are expensive, totally disposable cars. Who in their right mind is going to spend $10,000 to replace the battery in a 10 year old econo-box?
Do the math, estimating 12,000 miles a year, at $2.50 a gallon, in a Corolla, you are going to spend about $7,300 on gas. In a Prius, $6,600 in gas. Wow, in ten years you saved $600. But now your Prius is worthless because it needs $10,000 worth of work, whereas 120,000 miles on a Corolla, it is barely broken in good.
Think before you jump on a bandwagon. - clubgus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0A Combo of electric power and maybe an alternative fuel such as Natural Gas or Liquid Petroleum Gas or even ethanol in these Piruses will save you a wad of cash
- mlw72z, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Oops, my spreadsheet was wrog. Here are the corrected numbers:
Corolla CE ($13,780.00 + $11,003.05 = $24,783.05)
Prius ($21,275.00 + $6,105.88 = $27,380.88)
Corolla XRS ($17,555.00 + $13,520.36 = $31,075.36) - 16x9, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0theblooms wrote: "Think before you jump on a bandwagon."
Knowledgeable and responsible people have never promised that hybrid cars cost less to own and operate than standard petrol-only cars. Only that they cause less damage to the environment and that the source of their fuel isn't only oil based.
Furthermore, the cumulative costs of a hybrid will continue to drop as the technology improves and becomes more widespread.
One last thought... I can easily imagine someone making a similar "think before you jump on the bandwagon" claim as we were transitioning from horse and carriage to the automobile. - mlw72z, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Choosing a Corolla over a Prius is perfectly valid currently for someone who drives mostly highway miles. For mostly city miles the numbers change dramatically. Using 12,000 miles a year (900/month city and 100/month highway) and $3.00/gallon the 10 year total of gas plus the initial cost of the car the Prius comes out ahead ($21,275.00 + $10,588.24 for gas = $31,863.24) versus the Corolla CE ($13,780.00 + $24,695.12 for gas = $38,475.12). Using the fully loaded Corolla XRS the numbers are more dramatic ($17,555.00 + $36,651.58 for gas = $54,206.58)
- dotmike, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0In 10 years, even if the batteries are dead, technology will have advanced to the point where they can be replaced with something better.
Electric powered devices are a lot more "modular" than fossil fuel devices.
Consider something like an electric shaver: you can turn its motor using a 110V AC wall socket, through a rechargeable NiMH internal battery, a cigarette lighter 12V DC output, or a battery pack with shop bought AA cells. In the future, it's possible a cannister with hydrogen gas could supply it with electrical power as well, just as it's proposed for future laptop batteries.
Now, if the shaver had been designed to run on kerosene, you're stuck with that fuel source for the life of the device. There's no modularity. - fugitivALiEN, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I owned an 03 prius to commute to work in, it still across the board was getting 10-20mpg more per fill-up than any camry or corolla or other manual transmission vehicle. The 04 and up prius now gets at least 20-30 more mpg per fill up due to the electrics being nearly twice as fast as the 1st generation. The prius uses the the same engine but with the electrics. It does "pollute" 80-90% less than most vehicles and 60-70% less than any of the other toyota vehicles. It's green/cleaner and will allow you to go so much further on a tank of gas, and since they haven't been around for 10 years, they have not proved either way that "all batteries and electronics in the car have to be replaced" how many miles is that on a normal car? 100-150k+ miles, in most vehicles that is stretching it without some major replacement and service. All toyotas are warrantied on their electronic systems for 8 years. I think you're pretty well covered until the new cars come out...right? ;)
- AtariFan2600, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0PLZ stop posting this STORY it has been on the front page a BILLION times
- Polyfan, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Ummm.. actually, an internal combustion engine can be converted from gasoline to natural gas (such as propane) pretty easily. Not to mention alcohol, nitromethane and other such things(without changing anything). Diesel conversions would be quite a bit more complex, but even so, not incredibly hard. Oh yeah, ever heard of BIODIESEL?
Modularity? All your little electric motor can run on is electricity. Period. All you are changing is the power source. i.e. I can run my car with the fuel line running to a tank battery, or the fuel tank, or a five-gallon gas can, or even a bottle of store bought alcohol. It's possible I could run my engine off of pure oxygen, or butane.
Now, I don't know how you run a shaver on kerosene. I do know that it would be a quicker shave with one than that of an electric shaver though.
By the way, the 4.6 liter motor (that's 281 cubic inches) is called 'modular' for a reason. - kamaha, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Yes, electric vehicles seem all fine and dandy for those people in areas without heavy winters and very mountainous regions, but what about us who live up north in an area surrounded by mountains. Do you really think there would be enough power to make our daily trips. I don't know a whole lot about electric cars but I don't see them having that kind of power.
- Polyfan, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Tsk, tsk...
Do your research. A Prius is NOT fiscally responsible compared to a Honda Civic. It would take 12.92 years (at 15000 miles a year, and 3 dollar gas) assuming combined EPA gas mileage of 45 and 30.5 respectively to justify buying a Prius vs a Civic. However, since the batteries have an estimated life of 10 years, and the warranty only lasts 9.. the battery cost is QUITE a factor. So, if the $6000 'break even' point (base models of both: Prius: 20950; minus Civic: 14810 equals 6140) is 12 years, and batteries are replaced every ten, it is actually CHEAPER to buy a Civic. The gas savings allow $475.41 per year saved driving a Prius. Let's say that in 10 years, batteries will cost 3000 dollars. So, 3000 / 10 = 300 (battery cost per year). $475.41-300 = $175.41 net savings per year. So since the batteries would be a factor, it will take you 35 years, and 525000 miles to justify buying a new Prius vs. a Civic, financially of course. Oh yeah, resale value for a Prius without a warranty is gonna be crap also. So, I'm driving my Dodge Coronet that gets 10.5 mpg (city). I payed 3000 dollars for it, maybe I have put 500 dollars worth of repairs (not to mention I don't have to pay anyone to do work, I just pay for parts). put 800 dollars worth of gas in it.
1974 Dodge Coronet cost: 4300 (with 3000 miles worth of gas, and looks to kill) small-block 318, completely stock: 150, 1974 SAE net horsepower.
2007 Toyota Pruis cost: 20950
I have 5550 gallons of gas before I get to spend as much money as you Prius owners, and even then, that's with you driving nowhere but off the lot.
How's that for fashionable hybrids?
If you want to save the world, buy a motor scooter.
If you want people to think you want to save the world, be comfortable, and fashionable, buy a Prius. - openglfan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I should've bought a hybrid. I live in Austin, big bright sun capital of the US. My commute is around 10 miles. I bet if I strapped two solar cells to the top of a hybrid then I could run the batteries down to about 5% in the morning then get in my car and have them back up to about 50% 9 hours later for the drive home.
- Swampthing, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Keep in mind that you need to compare apples to apples. If you want to compare the value of a fully loaded Prius to another car, you have to compare it to a fully loaded model... Try finding another fully loaded car with as many options as the Prius under $26,000 that even gets close to the same MPG rating.
Since believe the Corolla XRS is comparable... let me point out some major differences between the two:
Corolla XRS has a six speaker sound system with no cassette vs. the Prius nine speaker sound system with cassette. XRS also does not come with 6 CD capability built-in, that is an extra OPTION. Prius has 6 CD bult-in.
Corolla XRS does not even offer a built-in fully graphic GPS operable with touch screen, Prius does.
Corolla XRS does not have a built-in keyless entry system unless you add it as an option. Prius has it built in.
Corolla XRS does not have remote power controlled right/left mirrors, Prius does.
Corolla XRS offers side air bags only as an option, Prius already has them.
Corolla XRS's base price of $17,780 is for STICK SHIFT, Prius comes with an automatic transmission.
Corolla XRS does not operate on voice commands, Prius does.
Corolla XRS offers 90.3 cubic feet of room for passengers, Prius provides 96.2 cubic feet and room for 5 passengers.
Corolla XRS offers 13.5 cubic feet of room for luggage storage, Prius provides 16.1 cubic feet.
Corolla XRS gets 26/34 MPG, Prius gets 60/55 MPG.
BTW, Corolla isn't the model that Toyota suggests you compare against, they suggest you compare it with the Camry on features, roominess, mpg, and price.
Based on the above, Prius is obviously the FAR better value before even throwing in the extra cost for gas pricing... - Swampthing, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Toyota even offers the comparison chart on their own website based on Edmunds data:http://toyota.edmunds.com/apps/nvc/toyota/VehicleComparison;jsessionid=DQpxQSy3pjT7nMGv5VpMLvHDYnPq0mhYGnBpKl4gM74ChqQVfJ1q!1953753406
- mandytom, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I created an account just to comment on this!
I too bought a corolla in 2001 to end the $100.00 dollar a week sucking sound of my, carry anything go anywhere suv. did the math calculated savings and the (at time)6 month waiting list.
I wish I had a Prius!
Here's Why:
Almost no pollution this car does not run gas motor when costing sitting or in traffic, and if gas EVER gets above $3.00, then I did my math way Wrong!
Hybrids are COOL! Clean, save gas.
WE NEED MORE!
Wanna learn something http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/fields/2045.html
Everybody should be able to have the biggest honk-in car they want.
Me I want a Hybrid and a big gas sucker, and what we need more of the former.
Ever wonder how the phrase "Designated driver" became so well known?
saved lives!
People don't have brains. They have sponges.
Waiting... for a good king.............. - mandytom, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Opps, guess I cant edit my bad grammar
- Polyfan, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Ride a small motorcycle. They're about a thousand times faster/cooler than any hybrid. And they get really good gas mileage.
Hybrids are models of inefficiency. If you want to save the world, use flywheels. - LesOReilly, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Days like today make me want a Prius. Gas in Ottawa just spiked from .99/L last night at 10:30pm to 1.19/L this morning at 7am. This type of price gouging would really be easier to deal with if I could stretch the tank by pluging in at work and at home.
- interiot, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0http://paperlined.org/blogsphere/mine/kwh_mpg.html
Electricity from the power company is often significantly cheaper per-mile the powering a car via gas. It's about to the point where it's about break-even to invest in $3000 for batteries. If gas prices continue to climb, then investing in $3000 for batteries will be a no-brainer. - jcoopsicle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0this is a great thread.
First, has anyone seen a FAQ or a guide to upgrading the prius with additional batteries? If so please post the link.
To me, the car debate doesn't revolve simply around the cost per gallon for transportation. If it did, I could own a 83 toyota tercel.
For me its a series of trade-offs, Which car offers good room, decent gas mileage and has some nifty features.
In California, you can now drive the prius in the carpool lane with only one occupant. How's that for government incentive? I know a few folks that would pay 5k for that alone.
I'm looking for a vehicle that offers safety, good gas mileage, and a minimum of pollution. I'd also like some style and the ability to haul some crap around.
I've boiled it down to a VW jetta wagon diesel (which I can fill with bio-diesel and get 54 mpg) and the prius.
It would be an easy call to get the prius if I could spend the extra 3k and get the car to run 100+ mpg.
But until I can figure out how to do that, I'm sticking with the jetta.
Gas prices move higher from here. In 20 years we better be completely off the sauce or we'll all be biking to work.
-J - MrCoke, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0toyota echo = 54mpg = 13000$cad. why go electric?
- Swampthing, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Sorry, forgot to add:
Corolla XRS does not offer rear wipers, Prius does.
Corolla XRS does not have audio controls on the steering wheel, Prius does.
Corolla XRS does not have rear folding seats, Prius does.
Corolla XRS has standard air conditioning, Prius automatic climate control.
Corolla XRS does not have remote power controlled locks, Prius does.
Corolla XRS offers one-touch power windows as an option, Prius has them.
The more I go on and on, how in the world do you think that this car even compares to the Prius? They both have four wheels?? And if you add all those options to the car price, it will make the overall cost difference between the two cars QUITE dramatic. - teevee247, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0The only problem with that is plugging it in, until battery technology can evolve to give a useful (over %75) charge in under 5 minutes, not too many people will be interested in the technology because we are used to getting things right awa (like 2 minuets to fill our car with gas). But, it's still cool that people are doing that to the Prius, it can only help improve the technology.
- JoeDonH, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0I love how "hacking" now applies to the alteration of anything physical or not. I'm hungry... excuse me while I go "hack" my refrigerator. Lol, just ball busting - On topic, the Prius is a great car, and as others have said, it isn't as expensive to keep up (via replacement parts and the like) as some would have you believe. Toyota also makes a kick ass hybrid in the Insight if you don't need a car with a lot of room.
- ajb2015, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0My dad considered buying a hybrid a few months ago. He did the math and decided it wasn't cost effective. Instead he went with the Toyota Echo. It's not a hybrid, but thousands cheaper, and he still gets 40-45 mpg.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0tru.dat
Browsing Digg on your phone just got easier with our enhancements to the 
© Digg Inc. 2009
— Content created and posted by Digg users is